This is the Business English Podcast, Episode 148.
Is the job still open? How to know if a job listing is current.
Welcome to the Business English podcast from All Ears English.
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Feeling good. What's going on, Michelle?
What's shaking? What's shaking, Lindsay?
Yeah, everything's good over here. I'm excited to be recording today.
Today, we're going to be talking about something very, very interesting that I hadn't really thought about before, but I found this great article and I was like, this is important for our listeners to know about.
So, Lindsay, the question for you is, do you think all job listings on job sites are Real or do you think some of them are not actually available?
So I have to ask a follow up question. Do you mean that they're completely fake, like a phishing scheme or something?
Or if they are just they're in the process of hiring and maybe they're further along by the time you find them?
Correct. Maybe maybe I don't think this is really about like we're not really talking so much about schemes here.
We're more talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like more so just like if they are actually jobs that are available currently.
Yeah, for sure. I think I think that well, it happens a lot, right, that companies will post something and maybe they have to delay hiring or maybe they are in the process of hiring.
Maybe they've already found someone and they didn't take down the job. right that could happen for sure yes exactly so this is something really important for you guys to know about as you apply for jobs that you know there are there may be times when you don't hear back from a job maybe it wasn't because of you maybe they weren't even looking like at that time so so we want to kind of talk about this article that um and we're going to give opinions about this frustrating situation um but before we get into that lindsay what do we want to tell our listeners Okay, guys, we have another podcast.
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Perfect. All right. So the article is from HuffPost.com and it is, is the job you're applying for a ghost listing, a ghost listing.
Here's how to spot one. These kinds of job postings are for roles that aren't open and will end up wasting your time.
So this is June 27th, 2023 by Monica Torres.
So Very. That definitely intrigued me. And I thought this is super, super important, guys.
So but before we get into it, we want to let you know that we have a great episode.
Episode 98 of the Business English podcast is how to find a job when you have a job.
So that was a good one. I love it. I love it.
Guys, go and check that one out. Just scroll down in your podcast listener app and you will find Business English 98.
That one should be easy to find. Yeah. All right.
So what are some clues? So based on the article, we're going to let you guys know what we found in the article.
And then obviously, we're going to expand at our own ideas and add our opinions and commentary here.
Okay. Exactly. Something important. Yeah.
So a ghost listing is a listing that isn't real, like a ghost, right?
So maybe, like Lindsay said, maybe the job has been taken.
Maybe they hired someone internally, right?
That happens a lot, I think. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
But the job is still up online. How frustrating.
So you're looking at these jobs and spending time applying to some things that, you know, it's never it's never going to happen.
So, I mean, I think this can also happen with real estate, right?
Like you're looking for something and it's up and maybe it doesn't actually exist or it's been taken already or something like that.
Yeah. I mean, that's why it's sometimes it can be good to use companies like Upwork.
You know, we hire sometimes on Upwork and they get as an employer, they give you a rating of the percentage of job posts that you actually hire someone from.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think our rating is like 65% because we don't always end up hiring someone.
Sometimes we just don't find someone we want or the project changes.
Yeah. Right? And so that's just kind of reality.
Yeah. Or on the real estate side, I don't know how much it happens in real estate.
It might. But if you're in a platform like a Redfin...
There's a few others. I would think that those platforms do try to clean their listings and make sure stuff is current.
Could happen also with commercial real estate, though.
Yeah, that could be another thing that happens.
You don't know. Maybe someone else is moving into a spot or whatever it may be.
But we're going to talk about this today, about our thoughts and opinions and job listings, all that good stuff.
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Exclusions apply. See details online. Okay, Michelle.
So from the article, what are some of the clues that we can look for if we are job searching and we want to make sure we don't kind of end up spending our time applying to these ghost jobs?
Yeah. So, okay. So the article mentions that if the... You have to look at how long this job has been online.
So it talks about trying to look for newer jobs that you really like...
Not much longer than two weeks would be the ideal.
I mean, it's not that would never happen, but it might be your clue that, OK, maybe like if you see a job that's four months old, like, you know, I have a feeling that one is filled.
Maybe not, though. So you never know. But these are just some clues that it could be.
Yeah. But the tricky part here, though, just to add some commentary, is the company doesn't have to add that on their website.
So we have a job list right now on our company website to have a former IELTS examiner get involved with some of our grading stuff, another IELTS examiner.
We didn't have to write a date of the posting, right?
It doesn't automatically put anything in or...
Well, we write our own web page, right? We write whatever we want.
The content on the page. Oh, it's on the All Ears English site.
On our website. Oh, okay. Yes. Okay. So, okay.
Well, we'll get that actually leads us into number two.
Okay. So another clue is like sometimes you're searching on a job. you know, a job search engine and maybe, you know, you see something posted there, but a clue that it's probably real is if it is also up on their site.
So like Lindsay, you just said about the all ears English site.
Um, if it's, if it's not on the all ears English site, but you're seeing it on a job search engine might be a clue that it might not be available.
What do you think? Yeah, for sure. For sure.
I think there's more of a danger of this happening with smaller companies.
If you are on a website, you see Apple is hiring, it's unlikely that they're going to leave that up or make a mistake or just decide they don't need that person.
A smaller company is more likely to say, Oh, we can fill this role with someone else for now.
And in 6 months, we'll hire. We've changed our mind.
So the bigger the company, the less likely this is to happen.
You think so? I don't know if that's right.
Really? I don't know. I feel like you could see stuff from, I don't know, in my job searches in the past.
I feel like there have been things that have just like stayed on even from larger companies.
And I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Listen, guys.
We don't want to. Sorry. Go ahead. Well, I think the advice to use a platform like a ZipRecruiter type thing is good because they probably require a date, right?
When you do the listing, I'm guessing they require a list.
Like how long has this job been online? That kind of thing.
Yeah. Yeah. So, guys, this is not to say don't ever apply to these things.
We don't want to now take someone out of an opportunity where something is real.
And then you think, oh, well, Lindsay and Michelle said it's not real.
We don't want to do that. But it's just things to keep in mind if this is kind of happening to you over and over.
And then maybe I'm not sure, but something something to think about.
Yeah. so other tips that the article mentions is you know guys a good thing to do is to have alerts for jobs um that you are interested in so that you get them when they first come out um yeah and you you know right oh i got this and like apply quickly yeah i mean you can set up a google alert for any phrase Yep.
Right. So like you could I have one set up for my own name.
Right. Because I want to know when I'm like something's being written about me online.
Of course. Right. We all should have that or for your company name, maybe your trademarks.
Right. So go ahead and set up an alert for the type of job combinations like openings in engineering in Boston, for example, something like that.
Right, right, right. Exactly. So, you know, and because I think the biggest thing is to when you see a job and it's new, you want to be pretty early on in that application process because things get moving.
And another thing that they mentioned is it's good to apply for a job unassisted.
Sunday. Have you ever heard that? Interesting.
Never heard that before. Why would that be?
Because it went up into the inbox. I would have thought it would be worse because then everyone comes into their office on a Monday morning and has a pile.
It's Tuesday morning and I still haven't read most of my Saturday emails.
I don't know. Do you agree with that? I'm not sure what the logic is behind that.
Well, yeah, I think that they're thinking that if you apply on a Sunday, yeah, that it's in the inbox on a Monday when somebody gets into work.
But you're saying that's not necessarily a good thing.
I'm assuming people aren't buried in their inboxes.
I'm going to say that the best time to apply is as soon as you possibly can.
Maybe it's better a Sunday than a Friday because that'll be sooner on a Monday morning.
True, true, true, true. Further up. So like if you're thinking if you see a job on a Friday evening and you're like spending all day Saturday working on it and you send it, you know, Saturday afternoon, then maybe the Sunday night people might get their scene first.
I don't know. Yeah. I would still say if it's just about getting and we could do a whole other episode, Michelle, not just around job applications, but the concept of getting found in a busy person's inbox.
Yeah. I would still say schedule that to send out on like Tuesday afternoon, because by Tuesday, at least this is my impression by Tuesday or Wednesday, we've hopefully been able to dig out of our emails from the weekend.
And now we're at the top of the inbox and seeing what comes in, you know, that's, But, you know, in bigger companies, you have a whole, you have a hiring management department, hiring team.
So they're dedicated to hiring. So that's not going to be the case.
It's when you're applying to like a small business, a small company, when someone who might be reading that application is quite stretched for time.
Yes. Yes. Well, and now I think AI is starting to be used for, you know, job searches, you know, job applications a lot.
And like, I've heard things where, you know, people, it's just like keywords that, you know, it's not even necessarily a real person right from the start.
Like they're kind of, I don't know. I've heard about that.
Like the AI is applying for the job or what?
No, no, no, no, no, no. Like the AI is like they're like they have ways to search out like to weed out job job applications.
Oh, yeah. I've heard of things like that.
I'm not sure exactly how it works. Well, I think I think they were already doing that before chat GDP came up.
Like they have scanners, right, that they need to find certain keywords in resumes.
And guys, this goes into hiring. You want to talk to a career coach, a hiring coach.
But I know that there are certain keywords that certain jobs need to find in the resume.
Otherwise, your resume won't even get looked at.
Yes, yes, yes, exactly. So, Lindsay, there are still times where if you think something is a ghost listing that you should, I mean, just kind of ignore that it's a ghost listing or you should definitely apply for it.
I mean, not definitely, but you can decide.
But They mentioned if it's a high turnover job, right?
So that might be a situation they mentioned where like, you know, people are going in and out of this job and you can sometimes just send in like a general application and they might be looking for to build up their, you know, their database of people who might fit the job for the next time.
Oh, for sure. And that's worth doing, you know, because companies might need to hire someone quickly in the future and then you'll be on a short list of people they want to reach out to.
Especially if you're talking about contracting work or part-time work where you're not going to go and take another full-time job and be totally unavailable, right?
Yeah. Right, right, right. And then the last thing they say is, you know, you can always ask, like, reach out, call, ask if the job is still available, because this can open a door.
So even if maybe the job isn't available, somehow you get introduced, you never know what's going to happen.
I think the moral of the story is use your judgment.
Don't, if you're not sure, I would still apply.
Personally, what do you think, Lindsay? Yeah, I think you want to approach a job application with a filter and look at the listing kind of holistically and think, okay, I don't see a date or the date's a little old.
This is a little bit of a red flag, but this seems like a job that they hire for often.
So think of it holistically. And then obviously it goes beyond just applying, right?
It's trying to build, like maybe connecting with a hiring manager or someone in the company on social media, building a relationship with them, publishing something where you tag that company to show values, to start to build the relationships beyond just the application.
Because most people that get hired, they do more than just submit an application, right?
That's the first step. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Yeah. That's a really good point, right?
We have to think of it as a big picture situation and it shouldn't only be that you're just, you should be doing more than submit, submit, submit, you know?
Oh gosh. Yeah. Cause that's just way too easy.
Anything that's easy. It's like easy come, easy go, right?
If it's easy to just hit submit, apply, then you're probably not going to get that job because you haven't done enough to show how you're any different than everyone else who just hit submit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good. Very good, Lindsay.
Yeah, that's a good point. So final thoughts.
What do you think, Lindsay? Being organized is good, guys.
And again, I think my final thought is what I just said.
It's about so much more than submitting a resume and maybe a cover letter.
That is just the bare, bare, bare minimum.
And make sure you follow, this is a side point, but make sure you follow instructions.
Like for the job that we just put out there, we've asked people to say something very specific in the subject line.
And anyone that doesn't say that very specific thing doesn't get a look at their resume.
So there's going to be instructions that people are going to potentially bake in to the application instructions that you have to follow.
That's your first test. Ah, very true. Yes, that's a good way to weed out people.
Yeah. And then always consider having different resumes and cover letters for specific kinds of jobs.
So, you know, you don't always want to be sending the same thing out for every single kind of job.
But we can talk more about that another day.
Maybe we can talk about how to create these different ones and how to look through.
Yeah, but that's it. Yeah. We'll have to get some guests on the show too.
That's what I was thinking. That sounds like a resume expert episode.
Yeah. We'll look into that. See if we can get some resume experts, some career coaches on the show.
That'd be very cool. Love it. Cool. All right.
Well, this was fun. All right. Well, I'll talk to you very soon.
You have a good rest of your day. You too.
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