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That's D-E-E-L dot com slash MOS. with a lot of experiments mixed with some commercial products.
The reality is, if you let AI do everything, then your company is going to progressively look more and more like the other company, because AI is going to become more and more like a commodity.
You know, the human inputs, the interaction between the human perspective and the AI perspective is what is going to generate something that is original.
That's Mauro Porcini, President and Chief Design Officer of Samsung.
Since Mauro joined Samsung last year, I've been eager to talk with him about the Korean consumer tech giant, its competition with Apple and the impact of AI on its products.
This week, as part of Milan Design Week, Mauro unveiled a slew of new ideas and experiments that give a glimpse of Samsung's future and of what may drive the tech future for all of us.
So let's get to it.
I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.
I'm Bob Safi, and I'm here with Mauro Porcini, President and Chief Design Officer at Samsung.
Mauro, welcome back to Rapid Response.
Ciao, Bob.
Hi, everybody.
Really a pleasure to be back.
You were last on the show in 2022 when you were chief design officer at PepsiCo.
Last year, you moved over to Samsung as its first ever chief design officer.
So how different is the task that you've taken on from what you did at PepsiCo?
You were the first chief design officer there also.
And I was the first at 3M as well.
And I'm saying this because the jobs are really similar, no matter the industry.
You know, I'm an industrial designer.
I spent at 3M 10 years in tech.
And then I first, I did this first mega leap, giant leap, to go to a completely different kind of industry in food and beverage.
I never worked in that industry.
And then one year ago, again, I do another giant step.
It's not just, you know, going back to the consumer tech industry, but moving to a completely different region of the world, because designers, what they do is They observe people, their needs, their wants and they try to build solutions.
The methodologies we use, the approach we have is transversal to any kind of industry.
Obviously, the companies are different.
The culture is different.
I'm European.
I worked for many years in the United States and now I'm working in Korea.
You know different worlds, but with very similar challenges.
It's probably a decade or more ago, as I recall, you took PepsiCo's then CEO, Indra Nooyi, on a trip to Seoul to sort of study Samsung's design right.
Does this feel like it's full circle for you a little bit?
It is.
Actually, even before I remember, I was a student in university in the 90s and I was observing how Samsung was progressively transforming to become an iconic design leader in the world.
So I've been fascinated with Samsung already.
I hire people out of Samsung to join me, for instance, in 3M.
And when I joined PepsiCo, as you just mentioned, I asked Indra if she wanted to go and see some companies that were really seriously invested in design.
And so we took the plane and we came all the way to Korea.
And so it is full circle.
As an Italian in American business and as a designer working with business people, you're always been a little bit of an outsider in some ways in the communities you're in.
Now, as you get to Seoul and sort of, you're the first non-Korean president in Samsung's history, like How much of being an outsider is good or bad?
And you know how do you sort of I don't know impact the culture without alienating the people?
You know who built it.
This idea of being suspended between different worlds.
I grew up.
In Italy, in the north of Italy, from parents from the south.
In a moment in time in Italy, where the south and the north were really divided, I would go around my neighborhood.
It was clear there was no belonging there.
But then when I was going to the south in vacation during the summer, For sure I was not belonging there either.
So already then, when I was a child, I lived in this gray area and this suspension between different identity.
If you talk to the design world, often they're like, well, but you're a business person.
But then if you talk to the business world, they are totally like, you're not one of us.
And so you don't belong there either.
Often people are uncomfortable when they don't have a specific label, where they don't belong.
The message I want to send, especially to the new generations of people that are trying to define their identity, often in those gray areas, you can design your own identity and be unique and original.
Already, when I moved As an Italian to the United States, there were many things that I didn't understand.
They were alien to me.
They were weird to me, honestly.
But you know, you need to really analyze yourself, analyze the culture you are in front of and understand what are the unique strengths that I bring to the table.
So here it's a culture that is very organized.
There is this vision coming from the top, and then an army of people that can execute, if used in the right ways, is very powerful because they are able to move really quick.
Obviously, you know I was called to bring in a vision that is adding to the one that the company already had in design.
So I spent really the past year trying to understand what were the strengths of the company and try to understand how I can bring something different.
I'm still in the middle of it.
You need to be, I think, very transparent about the fact that you will do missteps and mistakes.
But again, you also need to show as much as possible what you bring to the table.
I've seen these commentaries on LinkedIn from designers talking about your move to Samsung and kind of finding hope in it.
And I'm curious what that hope is referring to.
Look, I was surprised by those comments too.
Design incorporation is somehow struggling.
The design community made huge promises in the first decade of this new millennium about the power of design thinking.
And then in many instances, design thinking didn't deliver.
Design thinking is important because you need a methodology, you need a process, you need tools.
Exactly like a painter needs a brush, but then you need the right painter.
You need Picasso, because if you give that brush to Picasso, you get something.
If you give that brush to my accountant or my kid, you're going to get something different.
And instead our design community talked too much about the brush.
You know the bristles and the material and how to design the brush.
And we forgot that, at the end of the day, What really makes the difference is the thinking of the design thinkers.
Do we have the right empathy?
Do we read the right signals?
Do we have the right intuition?
To innovate, you need the tool, you need design thinking, but you also need the right people with the right mindset.
I was wondering how much of the reference to hope was referring to To Samsung specifically.
I mean I'm struck that, like PepsiCo, at least historically, was viewed as like the fighter brand compared to Coca-Cola, you know.
And now you're at Samsung, which is enormous, but in consumer tech is kind of the fighter brand to Apple.
Right.
The parallel is really interesting.
When I joined PepsiCo, And I'm doing the same here now, the same thing here and now in Samsung.
What I'm telling my teams is forget the other guys.
We can't design against a competitor.
That's really the wrong approach.
We need to really focus on people and really understand how can we create the most extraordinary solution for them.
And when I say solution, it means The best product, the best service, the best experience, the best communication and storytelling.
If you work against the competitor, you may end up being blind to a sea of opportunities that eventually are new to the industry, are different for the industry.
If you just focus on the competitor, you may do very interesting things.
Don't take me wrong.
There are endless cases of companies that focus on beating the competitor and did it very, very well.
But if you really want to create value long term for for your organization, if you build a culture that is really human centered, a culture that is really thinking what is the ideal world for the people I serve?
You've been at Samsung about a year and you're announcing this sort of design manifesto for Samsung's future this week as part of Milan Design Week.
So can you give us a taste of that and how that came together?
The pillar of what we're doing with design at Samsung is.
This is really making sure that designers are the voice of humanity in the organization.
I identify four different territories, four categories we're to focus on.
The first one is what I call live longer.
Then there is live better.
Live loud and live on.
Longer means all those technologies most of them are wearable technologies that we have to monitor your body and help you with your physical and mental well-being.
And then all those technologies that are there for your safety the safety of yourself, of your loved ones, of your pets, of your home, of your belongings.
The second one, the live better, is all about using technology to free up time to do what you love the most.
The second dimension is literally about Using robots and AI to increase the productivity of what you do or ideally, to do things on your behalf, so that you can be free of technology and do whatever you want.
With or without technology, it's up to you.
It's your choice.
The third dimension, the live loud, is the world of creativity, self-expression.
It's about using technology. to express yourself.
It could go from creating content for social media all the way To, for instance, creating your startup from the comfort of your living room using those technologies.
And then the fourth dimension is what we call live on is about transcending yourself and preserving memories.
We are saving pictures and videos of the people we love.
I have thousands and thousands of pictures and videos of my family members.
And I have almost nothing of, for instance, my grandparents or especially when they were kids.
So already today, when people are not with us, either because we are, they are in another side of the world, or maybe because they're not with us in this world anymore.
We can preserve their memories, their emotions, their knowledge, but more than ever now, with AI, we can literally build digital twins of people.
It will happen organically, because the more we share Everything we do with AI devices, AI platforms, the more these platforms will learn about us and we'll be able to replicate us in some form or way.
My parents are in their eighties.
I hope they're going to live for the next 50 years.
But when they're not with me anymore.
I would love to have a moment, you know, let's say, have a moment of difficulty, to have the possibility to ask my dad what would you do if you were me?
In all of this, you see that the technology is just a tool, is at the service of humanity.
When you came up with these four areas.
To what extent do you sort of start with like here are the products we have now and we have to serve them, versus like here are the questions and how do I move the products into there?
There are three horizons that we're considering.
One is the short horizons.
You start from the products of today and you try to advance them in an incremental way, even though obviously you always try to figure out if there is something breakthrough that you can implement quickly.
Then there is a second horizon where I need to figure out how I can do something that is more radical.
But the area where the four categories apply the most is the long-term horizon.
This is where you define the future portfolio of the company.
If there are products that maybe in the future won't exist anymore, because robots will do a lot of things that eventually other devices do today.
So those devices will need to evolve, need to be redesigned.
Let's say, in 10 years time, in a house where you have multiple kinds of robots you have humanoids, you have utilitarian robots, you have small robots that are more about emotional companionship.
In this kind of house, our appliances will change.
The robot will be the main interface between you and some of these appliances.
AI is going to be in your house.
How your TV, your refrigerator, your speakers will evolve.
What will be their role?
What will be the shape of these devices?
Where they will be placed?
And then you go back to today and you start to influence the development of those products in the right direction.
And this is influencing, by the way eventually Strategies, of acquisitions, partnerships or research that you can do.
You know, when you talk about having you know a digital twin of your parents to talk to, you know that some people might find that like oh that's, that's not.
That doesn't necessarily make me comfortable.
And I'm curious whether there's any conflict within Samsung about sort of how AI and robotics might interact.
Impact the role of humanity.
I mean, there must be a lot of discussion about processes and safety guardrails.
How do you address all of that?
Look, I'm glad you're mentioning this because essentially, when I talk about humanity, what I'm trying to do, push and pitch to the world not just samsung, but to the world in general is the idea that we need an ethical compass, what we can control as business leaders you know you bob me mauro, each of all the people listening to us right now we have a role here, no matter our titles, no matter what we do, you know, in life, we have a role to remind the world that what we need is care, is love for humanity.
Now, there are designers that don't care and there are designers that do, as there are business leaders that don't care and business leaders that do.
It's my responsibility And an opportunity that I have because of the voice that I have, the platform that these companies give me, to remind the world that in this conversation, right now, we shouldn't talk about AI yes, AI no.
Or robots yes or robots not.
They're going to happen.
They're going to happen.
We should talk about rules, policies, you know, constraints, you know, the boundaries.
Yes.
But even before that, we should talk about what is going to inform those policies and boundaries.
And this is the love I talk about.
I make the example of my parents because people can connect with that, because there is an obvious love connection between a son and the father and the mother.
There is a lot of conversations about the potential of AI, what AI can do or cannot do.
But if we will talk more about caring for each other, about loving each other, many of the problems we have, you know, the hate we find in social media, the conflicts that we see all around the world.
The problems that we have with technology, the problems that we have with brands and companies, any kind of problem.
You find the solution to that in this care for each other, in this love for each other.
This became, many years ago, a mission in life, a call that I have.
And when Samsung called me.
You know I've been always fascinated by the world of consumer electronics.
I did my thesis in the nineties in wearable technologies, just you know.
So it's been always a passion of mine, and technology is a tool and you can drive it in one direction or the other.
And we should all talk today about what is the right direction.
And again, this care for people, for humanity, and making sure that technology is there at the service of people is is fundamental.
Mauro is both absolutely practical and totally aspirational, looking to bring love, as he puts it, into everything we do.
So how does he extend that love to his team when managing in the age of AI?
And what will the form factor of the future be for tech, whether wearables or otherwise?
We'll talk about that and more after the break.
Stay with us.
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Business and the ways we do it are changing in ways that are both more subtle and more radical than you realize.
Welcome to Compound Interest from Salma 4 Business.
I'm Liz Hoffman.
And I'm Rohan Goswami.
We've been covering the forces behind this revolution, but now we want to talk directly to the people driving that change.
Each week, we'll talk to the operators, the experts, and the innovators to go beyond the headlines.
We'll dig into everything from hospitality companies that no longer own hotels to companies that will finance your sushi order.
We'll unpack the transformation of how business and consumers engage with our economy and figure out what lies ahead.
Listen to compound interest from Semaphore Business wherever you get your podcasts.
Before the break, Samsung's Mauro Porcini explained why he doesn't focus on Apple when looking to the future.
Now we talk about how to transform a business in the age of AI, how form and function will shift in the tech of tomorrow, and what the tech world needs to borrow from the world of fashion.
Plus, why experimentation is the one strategy we all need to embrace.
Let's jump back in.
You now oversee a global team of 1500 designers across mobile displays TV, home appliances, like everything.
You've got hubs all over the world.
How do you think about sort of getting them up to speed or having them under like, how do you apply the love there while also you know delivering the business of being more efficient and faster and all the other things that you know that businesses have pressure to do?
As soon as AI started to be a thing I remember in my previous company, immediately I created a task force to jump on it and leverage it in a moment where a lot of designers were pushing back like crazy on AI.
We decided, no, this is an incredible opportunity.
And today we're using it extensively in so many different ways in the company.
And it's really increasing that productivity, meaning it's accelerating the speed, but mostly it's increasing the quality of what we do.
I think one of the biggest values that AI brings to the table today is that it's bringing in a very different perspective.
Eventually, with the AI biases, you know.
Yes, you could replace one bias with another if you're not careful.
But what is interesting is not my perspective or AI perspective, it's the blend in between the two.
And this is when i talk about the interaction between human and ai.
I mean.
The reality is, if you let ai do everything, then your company is gonna progressively look more and more like the other company, because ai is gonna become more and more like a commodity.
You know the human inputs.
The interaction between the human perspective and the AI perspective is what is going to generate something that is original.
A third perspective.
We live in a world that is very competitive and obviously cost is a lever that companies have.
But quality of what you do, new ideas, innovation is an incredible level as well.
I'm sure not all your designers necessarily feel that way and sort of how do you get them to see it?
The moment you try to transform anything in a company, you have resistance.
I mean strategy I've been using over the years again not just in AI, because we mentioned in the beginning of this conversation, I've been the first ever chief design officer in these three multinational corporations.
So my life has been always a life where I had to drive transformation.
What I usually do is to identify what I call the co-conspirators people that get it in the organization.
With them, I build proof points.
I show that actually that thing can drive real value.
And then I story tell the heck out of it. internally, externally.
I use my personal social media, the social media of the company, interviews platforms like this one right now Bob, and then a lot of informal communication within the company to celebrate the new approach, to celebrate what that approach can drive and celebrate the people, the co-conspirators that have been driving this.
So this is how progressively more and more people are like, wait a second.
Oh, I didn't see the value that I want to be part of it.
And then you start to scale it up.
Where are you now in that run in Samsung or is it different in different places?
When we talk about me as a designer introducing a new approach, we are for sure in the occasional leap of faith.
I had one full year to identify my co-conspirators and we're working on, you know, building the proof points and and things are progressing in the right direction.
You know, Milan design week is an example of how the company is letting me take, you know, multiple ideas that embody the new philosophy all the way to the world, in public.
Uh, so it, it's, you know, that there is support, there is sponsorship from the top.
They want to drive this evolution of design.
I found my co-conspirators and then landing, you know, the first projects and the first initiative.
If you talk instead about AI, similar things, even though in some areas with AI, we are already scaling up the use of AI in many different areas of the organization, while in other areas we are more experimenting and trying things.
But I think once again is what is very important when you drive transformation is to have very, very clear what is going to be your journey and understanding that is a journey that requires time and you need to stick to your plan and you need to be very clear about the different steps you need to take.
I'm coming here to Samsung with a very clear playbook of how to do it that worked for me in the past.
And it seems that it's working also here.
And I was curious, you have the title of president.
Is that sort of something that helps the credibility like, gives you more impetus within the organization to get all of this done?
Or does that title represent that you're?
I don't know that you're in charge of some PL.
That's different too.
Like any title in any company, it means that I'm positioned in a certain level in the organization, that is, the highest level close, you know, close to the CEO.
So it's not about P&L, but it's about credibility.
But mostly it's the message that Samsung is sending both to the company and employees and then to the world, that they believe in design.
It's a message both internal and external.
What you're doing at Samsung in some ways are messages that you're trying to get out much more broadly.
But obviously, there's business stuff at stake for Samsung.
And I'm curious what you think about what's at stake for Samsung right now and how you and the design group plug into it.
Look.
AI is going to change the way we interact with all the devices that surround us.
In the company, we have a mobile business that is mobile phone and wearables.
We have all the world of television and sound systems.
And then we have all the world of appliances.
In consumer electronics, these are the three big businesses.
Each of these territories is evolving and transforming through ai, and so i give an example how the television is evolving in the next few years.
We are not talking about the future in the next few years moving from a device where you are passively receiving content to a device that essentially is your ai companion, how the design of this device, It's changing.
You know, the traditional television before AI is a frameless TV, the screen as thin as possible that you see on the wall.
Is that going to be the design of the TV of AI or is it going to be different?
Because this object needs to interact with you in a different way, even without considering AI, in an industry where, in the past 15 years, everything converged towards a very uniform, homogeneous design language.
That is the language of minimalism.
That is very essential, a language inspired by the Bauhaus.
The idea of form follows function and you strip out anything that is not essential.
Is that the design language of the future?
Why in the tech industries like this.
But then you look at fashion, you look at architecture automotive lighting furniture, and you have so many different kinds of design languages.
There is so much diversity and choice reflecting human diversity.
Why in tech instead, everything looks very, very similar.
So you're saying like I could have a TV that looks very different from your TV in a way that's not really available today but might be economically feasible for Samsung to produce for me.
Yeah, look, We are all different.
Your living room is different than mine.
Why do we need to have TVs that all look the same?
I created this new formula to direct our design work that moves from form follows function to form and function follow meaning.
What does it mean?
That I'm going to blend form and function and mix form and function on the base of what is meaningful for different people.
This can manifest in multiple ways.
One, the most obvious that is going to happen, no matter what me or Samsung or our design team decides, is that in user interfaces, through AI, we are going to mix form and function to create an interface for you that is different than the one that I'm going to have on my phone or my TV.
So AI will create a perfect interface for you, and it's going to happen very soon, you know, in the near future.
So already there, from a design standpoint, you know I don't want to go too technical, but essentially you don't have anymore the rigidity of a system that you need to design up front and impose to people, but you need to design how form and function will blend in a way that is meaningful to people.
But this also makes sense for your brand and also help people not to be overwhelmed and and confused by total freedom.
So what are the right boundaries?
What is the right?
Flexibility within the freedom that you give, but also the art direction that you have.
Because there's a lot of discussion about what the best form factor for AI is going to be and hardware and other things.
And it sounds a little bit like you're saying there's not going to be just one.
There's going to be different ones.
Good point.
So, you know, I was saying one is the user interface is going to be flexible by definition.
The other one is the form of these devices.
And now, the more technology goes in the direction of, you know wearability fashion, things that you wear, but also we're talking about television the same in the house the more you have technology that should be warmer, more human, more diverse, the more we need to think about the idea of more customization or the logic of fashion.
So in furniture design you buy a chair and often you have it available in different kinds of colors and materials and finish.
The more this technology is going to be on your body, the more you're going to have.
If he's a earbud of you know in a certain way, if he's eyewear, if he's a pendant, if he's a pin, the logic of flashing will apply.
So even before we talk about is a pin or a pendant or a earbud or glasses, even before death.
No matter what it's going to be, it's going to have different kinds of designs.
Form and function will change. aligned to what is meaningful to you.
Now to answer your question about what is going to be the right form factor.
I think you know we're all investigating different kind of form factor because there are pros and cons with each of them.
And I think we need to Start proposing them to people and see how people react.
But we are literally in an experimentation phase.
Any company that tell you oh, I know perfectly what that is going to be is lying, because it's not history of innovation.
We all know, we know very well that in this phase is a phase of experimentation.
And so any company in the world, I'm pretty sure, working in tech right now is experimenting with so many different kind of form factor.
And some of them are coming out and people are, you know, trying them and, you know, with commercial products.
Some others are just in form of concept, you know, we're testing them in house.
In Milan Design Week, we are showing you know a variety of different form factors from you know pendants to headbands that you put on your head to eyewear.
But the reality is that we are showing multiple of them, to say it may be none of them, but to say we're experimenting with multiple form factors.
In the show in Milan.
The goal is to communicate a vision and a philosophy that is based on two pillars.
One is human centricity.
You know, is literally elevating the quality of life, helping people living longer better, louder and on.
The other pillar is what is the design language of human centricity, is what we call an expressive language, where form and function flex and blend to be meaningful to people.
And so then, we show so many different products from future, concepts of televisions dressers, wearable devices speakers, kitchen experiences, all with AI behind, you know, enabling a different kind of experience.
And sometimes it's very functional.
Sometimes it's very emotional.
But there is always this blend of different approaches.
Sometimes it's very pop.
You know, you feel the K-pop culture of Korea in some of the installations.
Sometimes it's very zen.
But this is exactly what we're talking about.
Technology, the flex, both in the intents as well as in the manifestation in the design language, to serve humanity.
People, you were all different and once again we are in the phase of experimentations.
The event is the samsung design open lab is an open laboratory with a lot of experiments mixed with some commercial products that are already going in that direction, because I wanted people to feel what I felt when I came into the company.
And after you know, the first few weeks, they started to show me so many ideas, so many concepts, so many things.
And I was like, oh my God, but the world needs to see this.
And obviously there is a lot of confidentiality and patent and this and that you know.
So it's difficult to share everything you know we're working on obviously, but we figure out a way to share the energy of the experimentation, some of the concepts, some of the ideas, but we don't want anybody to focus on the specific, for instance, form factor of the wearable.
But we want to say, look, The world is going in this direction.
The most important thing is to focus on humanity.
And these are some examples of some experiments that we're doing, but this is really a phase of experimentation.
Well, Mauro, this is great.
I always love your enthusiasm and your energy about all this.
And thanks for doing this today.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me, Bob.
Mauro is such a distinctive executive.
He talks the language of business, but he also talks about love in a way that other business leaders just wouldn't.
What strikes me most may be the clarity of his frameworks about how to spur change within an organization, about his pillars of product design, despite all the uncertainty about the future with AI and with robots.
He manages to create solid priorities and a compelling direction for movement.
As he notes, deferring to AI needn't be our choice.
Originality is within each of us, and we all have a responsibility to shape what's coming next.
I'm Bob Safian.
Thanks for listening.
Rapid Response is a Wait What original.
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