Welcome to the Allie on the Run show.
I'm your host, Allie Feller, and this is where I talk with people who are doing exciting things on the run and beyond.
From professional athletes and celebrity runners to the everyday amateur and back of the pack runner.
We are here to celebrate everyone and anyone who enjoys a life on the run.
Whether you're running towards something big or away from something that's been holding you back, I'm here to hold your hand and help you pick up the pace.
Today I am excited to welcome ultra runner extraordinaire and marathoner, Courtney DeWalter, back to the Alley on the Run show.
Courtney is, of course, best known for her success on the trails.
I think we can all agree that she is the goat in ultra running.
In 2023, Courtney became the first person to win the Western States 100, the Hard Rock 100 and UTMB in the same year.
Earlier this year she won the Hard Rock 100, where she ran a woman's course record 26 hours 11 minutes and 49 seconds.
But most recently, Courtney's been hitting the roads.
She just completed the Twin Cities Marathon, her first road marathon in more than a decade, and she did that in two hours and 49 minutes.
In this conversation, the always fun Courtney talks about why she wanted to run a road race, why Twin Cities and why she loved it so much, plus an exciting announcement about what's next.
Please join me in welcoming Courtney DeWalter to the Alley on the Run show.
Courtney DeWalter, fan favorite running industry and community favorite marathoner, which I know you've done one before, but marathoner yet again.
Welcome back to the Alley on the Run show.
How are you doing today?
Thank you.
Oh, I'm so happy to be here.
So happy to chat with you.
You know this was timed for so that we could talk about your race recap, but I swear I always end up talking to you right around Halloween.
So what have you bought so far?
What are you stocking up on?
We're bringing up candy right off the get-go.
I love it.
This is why I come here.
This is what I'm here for.
Well, it's candy corn season, as we all know, which is one of the greatest holiday candies of the year.
So I've been stocking up on candy corn autumn mix because I do like the pumpkins.
And I found that there's a few other brands that make a candy corn style candy.
Now, like Nerds makes Nerds.
Candy corn shaped like kind of jelly bean nerd type things that are very good.
So, yeah, just perusing that Halloween candy section daily.
All right.
Don't be mad.
I've never had candy corn.
Wait, what?
I don't know.
I'm a chocolate girly.
I will do anything chocolate, but I'm not a big non-chocolate person.
And I've just never been tempted to try.
I've never had the pumpkins and I've never had candy corn.
In all your years of candy consumption, not even like Oh, this is sitting right here.
I'll try one.
No, I've never.
I just I don't think I would like it if it were coated in chocolate.
I'm down.
But yeah, it just doesn't.
I've never I've never gone for it.
I'm so sorry.
OK, well, that's OK.
But I would love if you would have an open mind and just try a piece.
OK, and let me know.
OK well, when we record our annual Halloween themed episode next year, we'll make it happen in person.
And I'll try one in your presence because that has to be the way to try it for the first time.
It has to be with Courtney DeWalt.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, speaking of next year around this time offline, you asked how Chicago was.
Were you watching the Chicago coverage being like, ooh, maybe I'll run one of the majors next?
Does that appeal to you?
Oh, man.
I mean, I would say...
I've always watched the marathon coverage and been intrigued by it and thought it was so cool to watch the majors or just read up on any sort of results or how it went for people.
Because running is running is running, you know, and I love it all.
So I think that world is just as cool as trail running.
For sure, I would love to do a major at some point.
And for sure, the Twin Cities Marathon last week won't be my last marathon.
Like I had so much fun at it.
What was the if I were to ask for the snapshot moment from the day?
Like a year from now, when you picture the Twin Cities Marathon, what image is going to pop into your head?
I think. like the people along the course, my family came out.
So we got to high five along the way.
And I really also enjoyed when I got to stop at the finish line.
Best part.
The Twin Cities Marathon finish, though, is really cool.
You come around this corner and the Capitol building's there.
I'm sure a lot of them set it up in a scenic way, but Then there were, like these, fire trucks with flags, you know, way up high.
It just like looked really cool to be coming into the finish line there.
Yeah.
You know, it's no UTMB finish line, but I do think that the marathons do it right in their own way.
Yeah.
No, I loved it.
I loved the entire 26.2 mile journey.
Yay.
Well, we're going to get into, we're really going to break this race down and talk more about it.
But before we get too much into running talk, I want to know what is something that's making you happy today.
I'm in Minnesota right now visiting family.
So getting to spend time with them makes me, yeah, unbelievably happy.
There's nothing better, especially after a big race and a big effort, to just be with your people and be Chill.
Have you taken, were you right back on the run after this?
I mean, this was a solid, you know, I know it was a hard effort and we'll talk about that.
And mileage wise.
You know, unless you did an 80 mile warmup or cool down that we haven't heard about like, this was a shorter distance for you.
Have you gotten back on the run since the race?
Yeah.
Yep.
Been back out jogging around, but still, you know, keeping it pretty low key, pretty easy still.
Did you do an 80 mile warmup?
I thought about it.
I honestly considered my warmup length for a long time because it was a thing I was really unsure about.
Like how many miles do I need to do before this race to make my body feel like it's going already?
Because sometimes during my ultra races, during a hundred mile race or whatever, I won't feel like.
I'm like fully turned on until mile 20 or what you know like.
It's just like Sometimes the systems take a while.
And so for this one, I was considering a 20 mile warmup.
Luckily, I didn't do that yet.
Can confidently say that's the first time someone's ever said that on the alley, on the run show considered a 20 mile warmup.
Sure.
Sure.
I just wanted to be already rolling.
I wanted to have like the momentum going and just be a runaway truck on that thing.
Hey, whatever works and whatever you did obviously works.
So we'll get to that.
What is something that you're into right now?
Movie TV show music.
What are you consuming that you're into?
Um, I haven't fully dove into the new Taylor Swift album yet, so I can't list that yet, but I'm hoping I could list it.
One thing I'm really into right now is that it's fall and when the leaves change.
I love it.
So I love you know, going around the neighborhood and noticing which ones are going or which leaves are on a tree that are looking particularly good right now.
So I would say that's a big pastime for these next few weeks.
Oh, I like that answer.
All right.
So big picture.
How are you feeling post Twin Cities Marathon?
I feel good.
After the race my legs were definitely sore in places that probably hadn't been sore and used in a while.
Like the muscle groups used during the race felt a little different than my ultra stuff.
But yeah, I'm feeling good.
Feeling like yeah, I came out of it uninjured and just like, really excited at the idea of this new section of running to explore.
You know the way that you've said just a couple things already in this conversation make it sound like this is a new chapter of running for you.
So I'm curious, how do road marathons fit into your career right now?
I think probably it's less to me about where they fit in my career and more just like wanting to pull the threads of things that bring me joy and, you know, spark my curiosity and um yeah, just like fire me up a little bit.
So usually during the course of a year, the you know thing that might spark my curiosity or give me that, like you know internal, like kind of drive to sign up for something or to train for it are like different types of ultras or different you know terrain to try and figure out how to move on it, or elements, whatever.
It is like the weather or heat, you know, and this time it just feels like it um, it gave me that same fire where I'm, I'm just so curious about it.
It feels like a new puzzle, but with a lot of the same pieces that I kind of am familiar with.
And that's made it really interesting.
And that's the kind of stuff I like to pursue when it comes up, you know?
So if this had been a certain style of ultra, I would hope I would do it the same way, and not necessarily because of where it is in my career, more just like because it makes me happy and yeah, gets me like pumped to try hard.
So how did this come up?
Do you remember when you first had that spark of I want to run a road marathon this year?
How and when did it all come together?
I think a few years back, Kevin and I were sort of like spitballing ideas, for you know, what should we put on our bucket list for races, or style of races, or things we want to try and fit into a schedule in the next few years?
And already then I was like well, I for sure want to circle back to a road marathon at some point, because it had been so long and I've, you know, changed as a runner over those years.
And so just coming back to it felt like um, kind of a cool circle, a cool, you know like piece of the story.
And, um, so we had already written it down a few years back.
I didn't know what marathon it would be or when it would be, but I knew that I wanted to get it in at some point.
And then uh, I guess early this past summer Um, I was looking at twin cities marathon and the date for it and everything just felt like it could be the perfect end to a summer of in the mountains.
Like let's throw this in there and see, um, and then got into it.
So then it was written on the schedule and we knew it was happening since probably like mid summer.
When you say got into it, you're not going on TwinCitiesMarathoncom and just signing up as a normal, are you?
Or do you reach out to the team I'm guessing to be like hey, I'm Courtney DeWalter and I'd like to run your race?
No, I didn't know what to do.
So I was on TwinCitiesMarathoncom, but then they had a category this year that was called Best of the Midwest.
And so if you, you know, have ties to one of the Midwest states, you could apply for it and kind of race in this subcategory of the field.
And so I applied for that, thinking like there's probably no way I'll get into this, because you have to like, have all these like times, you know like they're like, tell us why you qualify.
And I'm like, well, actually I don't, but I really want to.
Yeah.
He asked, my name is Courtney DeWalter, running resume attached.
Please let me in.
Tell us your best marathon time.
And I'm like, well, here's my best hundred mile time.
And I'm assuming it worked.
You got into the best of the Midwest category.
They let me in.
Yeah, they were so nice.
It was really cool to be a part of, and why?
Twin cities?
Other than, like you said, the timing worked out and I'm guessing it is your ties to the area, but why you know you could have.
You could have probably gotten into Chicago.
I mean, still New York city is in two and a half weeks.
If you want a bib, I bet we could get you on.
Um, but but why this one?
And why also, when there are races like the majors that have all the fanfare?
Um and twin cities?
Seems like it is incredibly well supported and it's a very important race in the community.
But why was this the one for you?
This was the one that lit me up because it was my very first road marathon I ever did back in 2009.
I signed up for it.
I was, you know, this was post-college.
I was just sort of like casually running before work or on weekends and signed up for this road marathon.
And at the time I couldn't believe that people ran that far, like 26.2 miles blew my mind.
I thought I would die out there and, um, completed it and loved it.
And it also then made me realize that, um, I loved trying things that sounded too hard.
So I, you know, thought that marathon would be too hard.
I ran it, I completed it.
And afterwards immediately thought like, well, what else is out there that sounds too hard?
I could try and just see.
And that's what led me to the ultra running world.
So really it was kind of the first thing to push over the domino for me of running really really far and um Exploring, you know, limits and potential, and just being curious about that.
So circling back to that very first one again felt like a perfect fit.
Do you want to run the New York City Marathon in two weeks?
Wait, let me check my calendar.
Do it, do it.
It's so fun.
I love crazy ideas.
So let's leave it at a maybe and then let's chat after this.
Okay.
If you do it, I will have so much candy corn for you at the finish and I will eat as much candy corn at the finish as you want me to eat.
If you do the race, I will eat the candy corn.
Similar effort required.
Yeah, that could be worth 26 miles.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Keep me posted.
So let's talk about your training and what it looked like.
I have to imagine that you know the mileage no concern here, because certainly you're getting the miles in but what did your training look like leading up for this?
Were you doing speed work?
Were you still doing your training up in the mountains or did you drop down and train a lot on roads?
Let's hear all about your approach to training for this race.
I had, um uh, summer that was pretty much focused on mountains and ultra running and some of the races I had on that schedule.
So um, I raced a hundred mile race at the very end of August and the lead into that was really focused on that race and um, doing the training for that style of running, which is more mountainous and carrying a lot of gear and using poles and stuff.
And then my recovery after that 100-mile race took a couple weeks out of September.
So my lead into Twin Cities was pretty abbreviated but I did try to get as much information as I could from people who know what they're doing in the marathon world and like tips and tricks and recommended, like workouts how do I find some speed for these legs?
And then I was just like throwing everything at it that my body could handle in those weeks that I had before the race to try to find some speed, and it felt like a whole new game, like It was all these types of workouts or focus on pace that I don't ever do in ultra running.
And I loved that switch up.
Who were the people that you went to to get that advice?
One of the main ones I was talking to was one of my best friends and teammates from high school, who is a road marathoner now.
And yeah, I was calling her up like every other day, just like, help me.
What do I do?
What does four by one K mean?
Yeah.
So we look at our watch all the time.
Got it.
She probably loved that.
She's like, finally, we can talk marathons.
It was so fun.
And then she was actually in the Twin Cities marathon with me as well.
So it was really special to share that whole like just the whole thing.
You know, like It was cool to have that and do it together.
Did that focus on pace and looking at the watch all the time?
Did it change your love for the sport at all?
I think I was surprised that I loved it just as much as like climbing mountains.
You know like it felt different, but I was definitely like leaned into it and like found a lot of joy in just seeing the improvement over that little amount of time.
And you know, like having a mission, like at the start of a run I don't usually have any sort of mission on my runs.
You know, and this felt very much like I have a mission today and I'm going to try hard at this workout that, You know, I'm kind of making up, but someone kind of told me I should try like.
You know, like putting the pieces together felt really fun.
And yeah, like it gave me a lot of joy still, even though beforehand I would have thought my brain wouldn't have really enjoyed that, because my brain for training is usually like leave the door with a pack, a bunch of snacks and your shoes tied and just see what happens.
And, you know, you stay out as long as you stay out.
And this was very different from that.
Do you remember?
Were there any specific workouts you did that either were big confidence boosters or that you particularly enjoyed?
Um, I think it was, I was a little unsure of the whole thing.
Um, because I where I live is at 10,000 feet.
And so I was trying to like find the speed and like, um you know, try and find some paces or whatever, based on what my friend was recommending.
And, you know, I was what I was trying at the marathon, but I was like, how does it translate?
Because I'm up here at 10,000 feet.
What does that look like actually when you're in Minnesota where the race was going to be?
And do I even care?
Is there a thing that I need to consider with that?
There was a lot I didn't know there.
But just over the course of the time I did have to prepare, feeling more comfortable with the paces that I was able to get to was like okay, we're at least moving in the right direction.
I don't know if it was enough time to be ready for this marathon, but I'm ready to just try and see.
And I think one of the coolest parts going into the marathon is I had zero expectations of you know how it would go, how it would feel.
Like, could I keep up with anybody?
It was very much like, open mind to whatever happened and just trying really hard.
Well, that was going to be.
My next question is as you're doing this training, did you have a goal time?
Like what were you?
What were you seeing Courtney DeWalter three hour marathon or two 45 marathon or whatever it was.
Did you have a number in mind?
I had always thought it would be cool to break three hours at some point in my life.
Before this one, my best time when I first did those marathons, I did two of them.
I did one in 2009 and then I did another in 2010.
And maybe I had done like a three marathon.
15 as my best out of those two.
And so I had thought, you know, if I get under three hours like that would seem pretty crazy and pretty fun.
So that was the ultimate goal.
But then, yeah, it was like, let's, let's just see what happens if we try to hold a pace.
Well, do you know what you peaked at for mileage during marathon training?
Did your mileage drop way down compared to when you're training for the ultras?
Or did you keep your mileage high and just work in the speed stuff?
My mileage dropped way down.
I think for a combination of reasons.
I guess one like I was doing way more speed and intensity than I normally do in a week.
So it felt like dropping the mileage would be helpful in that kind of adaptation.
But also I was still sort of like teetering between being recovered from that hundred mile race and not being quite recovered.
And so It was like um, trying to keep just the overall volume fairly low so that I still could recover a little bit and then playing with the speed a little bit in there.
What did your, what did you peak at for your longest run?
Uh, maybe, uh, maybe I got a 17 mile run in or something.
What would you recommend peaking at?
Oh, I'm not a coach.
I don't.
Are you kidding?
I mean, standard is people, you know, there's there's the people who train by mileage and I feel like they peak.
Usually they do like a couple 20 milers.
Some people might do a 22 miler.
I think for other runners who are following more of a time on feet training plan, it's usually like get in a three hour run.
I feel like that's kind of a sweet spot, but I don't know.
I don't know what I'm doing.
Don't ask me.
No, this is helpful.
Perfect.
Tell me everything you know.
No, you want to go to like a Des Linden for that.
You want to go to a Dakota Popain.
There's lots of other more qualified people to get this advice from.
But here's the thing is you talk to... all of the people.
So you actually have more knowledge than everyone.
I have thought I'm like you know I'm never going to do it, but I'm like is there something to be said to take?
You know, I'm at episode 843 or something like.
Can someone go through and pick out the best nuggets from these?
Like whether it's the training tips, the nutrition, the most inspirational quotes, the funniest stories, like we need an alley on the run show anthology at some point, so that then we can just have all the best information in one place.
Yeah.
So someone out there go make a project of it.
It'll be, it'll be great.
Also, that's a lot of episodes.
I know it's a lot of lot for someone to listen to, but for me it's a lot of fun conversations I get to have.
Yeah.
You've done a lot.
So I'm going to make an assumption here, which is that you never doubted that you could finish this race, based on your running history and your skills and expertise.
Was there ever a question of how this race was going to go?
A hundred percent.
I had no idea how it would go beforehand.
Like standing on the start line.
I was like I don't know where I'm going to end up in this field of 20000 humans, or however many are on that start line, you know.
But um, you're right.
Like the distance, I felt like it's going to be okay.
I can cover the 262 miles, which is an interesting like perspective shift.
You know when, like um, your scale changes.
Like when I think of that 2009 version of me, 26.2 miles would like, it terrified me.
And now that feels like the least terrifying part.
I'm more like, can I drink any water while sprinting or will I just drown on it?
Or can I keep up at all with any of these people was more the question.
What was your fueling and hydrating plan for this race?
I got to have bottles, which was a cool new experience.
Yeah.
And so I had Tailwind out on course, which is what I use in my ultras as well.
So that felt like a safe bet.
I knew it would work and that it tastes good and everything.
It was just really if I could get it in my mouth or not and not choke.
Yeah.
Okay.
Were you nervous about grabbing it off the tables?
Did you practice that at all?
I did.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's really hard.
Yeah, you were moving at a quick clip.
It's not easy to grab stuff on the run.
Yeah, and the first one we came upon, I was running with my friend who was also my teammate way back in high school and we had like practiced it.
I knew where my spot was on that table.
I was like all ready.
She queued me up.
She was like okay, get over there.
And like this is our, this is our table, and And I run by it and I'm looking at the bottles and I just keep going.
And then she runs up next to me and was like, why didn't you grab yours?
I'm like, I didn't see it.
And she's like, well, it was right there.
No, this was the first one.
The very first one.
I had forgotten what my bottle looked like.
I didn't know what I was doing.
That's why some people decorate theirs and they like hang things off them.
It's like a whole thing.
People make their bottles very noticeable.
Did you go back for it or were you just like, well, onto the next?
That train was going in one direction.
And so we had no time to go back.
Do you think, did it affect you at all?
No, it was okay.
I mean, there was also the regular aid stations along the course.
Yeah, it was fine.
So how were you feeling heading into the second bottle station?
Were you a little nervous for that one?
Yeah, I was like pep-talking myself.
I was like, you can do this.
You know how to do this.
So you didn't do any other, you didn't do gels, you didn't do any other food or nutrition.
You were just doing what was in the bottles?
Yeah, I only did Tailwind.
And how did your stomach feel throughout this race?
Stomach felt really good.
That was one variable.
I wasn't sure how that was going to go either, because I'm not usually sprinting when I am consuming calories.
So I didn't really know and I didn't really test a ton of that beforehand.
But it ended up being great.
My stomach was no issues.
So Twin Cities and the community there seemed very excited to have you as they should be.
I know you did an event before the race with Carrie Tolleson, who's very well loved in the marathoning community.
And from what I heard from people who were there, there was a big turnout for Courtney DeWalter.
People were very excited.
What did you think of the marathoning community?
How did they treat you?
How did you feel and how was it different than the ultra community?
Oh, it was so cool.
It was so special.
It was... really meaningful that it was back in Minnesota.
So I got to you know, connect with the place that I love so much, the place where I grew up, the place that helped shape who I am now.
And we had a ton of people come out for that event on Friday.
We did a little like shakeout, couple mile run on kind of trails, kind of path, and then did a podcast.
So it was really cool.
The I think the running community is amazing.
No matter what terrain you're running on, it's just like, yeah, people who you feel connected to.
And when you get to share some of those miles, it just like strengthens that connection for sure.
So let's go to the start line.
Did you sleep the night before the race?
I did.
Yeah, I slept great the night before.
I think I was just so oblivious to what it would all be that I wasn't even like worrying anymore.
I was like, well, let's just try.
I love that approach.
Put it put it in the book.
Did you have a race plan or a pace plan?
I had no not really, but I was.
I'm going to try to like aim for a split for miles and then just try and hold it and see if it held or not.
We also had kind of crazy weather where it was hotter than expected.
It was super windy.
And so people were saying like maybe ease off the pace, like don't try, and you know, full gas it the whole time.
Be smart about it.
So then I, I wasn't really sure.
So I was kind of going with the flow, kind of trying to feel like sort of comfortable, but also like I was pushing it and and then just hold on for dear life.
Can I ask what that pace was that you were looking to hold on to?
Like six 30 miles.
And where does that, where does that net you out for a finish time math?
Not my strong suit.
I think right around a two 50.
Oh, wow.
Wow.
Wow.
And what did we run a two 49?
So we nailed it.
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When you got to the start line, what did that feel like on race morning?
And again the question is does it feel different than the usual start lines you're used to rolling up to?
Yeah, it felt a little different.
It's like a lot of the same feelings, but with different nuances.
So I definitely felt like a fish out of water around the people that I was starting with.
Like, I didn't know any of them.
I didn't know the process people do beforehand.
So I was like, okay, I'll do some drills.
Skipping around.
Yeah.
And yeah, definitely a lot of like just trying to pick up things like observing and yeah.
Trying to like learn as much as I could.
With the whole experience, you know whether I would apply it immediately or now.
Just I understand it a little bit better for a next one.
It was cool to just like be fully immersed in, you know, starting up with that elite field and like getting to see what they do in those final, like 30 minutes before race start.
I liked that in photos from the start, everyone around you is in buns, they're in their little spandex, short shorts and Courtney DeWalter, in Courtney fashion, is rolling up with the long inseam.
I have to imagine that also made you stand out a little bit.
Were people coming up to you at the start?
Were you getting recognized quite a bit?
Or did people kind of just let you do your thing?
At the start line, it was pretty chill.
Yeah, pretty quiet.
And yeah, but There was definitely one thing different than the rest in that dark field.
I love it.
So the gun goes off.
How did those early miles feel?
It was cool.
It was the women went so fast from the start.
So one of the things I had wondered beforehand is you know what's it like to run in one of those packs that I see when I watch, like the Chicago Marathon or the New York Marathon the women all running together.
But they took off so fast that I was immediately not in any pack.
So that question will maybe remain to be answered next time.
But I was running with my friend.
So we were just kind of sorting out the pace that felt good and trying to, you know, settle into a groove after those first couple of miles.
I think people just take them out a little bit fast.
Were you talking to each other much?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like talking like, how does this pace feel?
Or talking of like, what'd you have for dinner last night?
How's the family?
Like conversational or just checking in?
Some of both.
I was kind of telling her how some of our ultras start so fast also, which is funny because our average pace then, you know, ends up being like a 15-minute mile for 100 miles.
But the first two miles of the race, you're like doing six or seven-minute miles, you know.
And we were kind of laughing about that and how just the start of races are so exciting always.
But mostly just checking in of like, does this feel good?
Let's ease up.
Water's coming.
Don't miss your bottle.
Yep.
Yep.
That went well.
Was the plan to run the whole thing together?
We weren't sure.
The plan was to yeah, see if we could, you know, have a day where we're both feeling good and can then work together through the whole thing, knowing that The odds of, you know, two people having the same type of day on the same day is difficult to coordinate.
Yeah.
So how did that play out with the two of you?
We her legs just like weren't turning on quite as early into the race.
So we just separated by a little bit. probably after, I don't know, like eight miles or something.
But then we're still together, but not next to each other.
How did this effort feel for you?
It felt really good.
Yeah, it was really fun.
And the miles were kind of just clicking by.
Like you see the big signs every single mile in these road marathons and they come up pretty quick.
How much were you looking at your watch throughout the race?
I was checking it.
Um, I was trying to just understand the feeling and the sensations versus the pace.
So trying to like get my internal speedometer to you know, associate those two things together better, because I I hadn't spent a lot of time doing these paces so it was harder for me to tell you know this, what this feels like and then what time this actually was.
So I was checking, like I was checking mile splits for sure, and then just glancing occasionally, what were the crowds like So amazing?
The Minnesotans really showed up out there.
They were lining the course.
It wasn't even great spectating weather.
It was super windy.
And then like random rainstorms blew in at one point.
So yeah, but people were out in force.
It was really cool.
Were you getting a lot of specific Courtney cheers along the way?
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe the bib gave it away, but maybe the shorts gave it away.
Oh, okay.
I didn't notice that.
Your bib had your name on it?
I think it had our last names, maybe.
I mean, that is really cool.
And I wondered how much I look at you as being one of the best known and most recognized runners in the country.
And I wondered how that would translate to a marathon setting.
But yeah, I guess...
I guess if it's on the bib that helps.
But I have to imagine that people knew that it was you along the way and were pretty jazzed to see you out running a marathon.
There was really good support out on course.
It was really cool.
All right, let's talk about the second half of the race.
Was there a point where the pace you were holding felt hard, or did you just keep cruising?
I had trouble holding on to the pace in the last few miles so I felt really good, like that whole, the whole middle chunk of it felt really good.
And then um, probably from like 23 miles in, i was just like i feel like i'm still running the same pace, but when i look at my watch it's slower than the pace.
Yeah, hate when that happens, but watches lie sometimes.
Yeah, and always trust our gps devices.
So yeah, maybe that was it.
Yeah, how excited were you when you got your second bottle?
Oh, so pumped.
Yeah, i celebrate like i did it.
Yeah, i was like got it.
Did that give you a boost of confidence after?
How many bottle tables were there for you?
Oh gosh.
Were there maybe eight?
Wow.
So did you get seven?
Yeah, I didn't need any others, but there was some serious self-talk.
Every time I approached the table, I was like, okay, you can do this.
Get your hand ready.
Don't trip.
Be looking.
Yep.
Yep.
I'm really proud of you.
I mean, out of the field that was getting bottles, mine was usually one of the last ones left.
Oh, okay.
Hey, someone's has to be.
That is really funny.
It made it an easier task.
If the table was full, it would have been much more intimidating.
See a reason to just let the people go ahead off the start line.
Let them do their thing because there is a payoff.
Yeah.
There is a reward.
Exactly.
All right.
So once you got into, let's say the last 5k, how are you feeling at this point?
Uh I, I mean, I still was having so much fun and there was still so much cheering along that was just boosting every step.
Um, but for sure.
I was curious how slow my legs would fade, because they were for sure not as present anymore.
But I mean, if you were running close to six thirties and to finish at two, 49?
I haven't looked at your uh, you know mile by mile breakdown, but what did that end up looking like?
How did your splits even out?
I'm not sure.
There were some faster ones in there and maybe towards the end that the time was getting up closer to seven, but I haven't really looked at it and analyzed it either.
Do you think that you will, or are we like this race is in the past now?
We're good.
Yeah, I think it's in the past now and I learned a ton and now it's like okay, how do we take all of those learnings to the next thing?
All right.
Let's hear about some of those learnings, other than things like navigating the bottle stations and figuring that piece out.
What are some of your biggest takeaways from the 2025 twin cities marathon?
Uh, that we're capable of more than we think in anything.
So this always applies to, you know, the ultras that i do.
But this was a cool new lens on it, like it wasn't the distance that felt intimidating or unknown, it was the speed, and so um, it gave the same sort of like exploration sensations as trying a new distance, but it was, you know, in a different area and i thought that was a really cool thing to explore and see.
And beforehand, if you had asked me you know what time could you run, I would have said you know, maybe I can squeak under three by one second, like 25959, you know.
And then it was like well, actually we can do more than we think a lot of times.
So like, just try, just try hard at something and see.
And I do think like it was really interesting and valuable and fun to try to find speed and to try to change up the workouts a little bit, even though you know I'm older and further along in my running than I was, you know, 20 years ago.
It's like you can still try new things and change it up and go down different side roads.
So when you look specific to the marathon, what motivates or intrigues you?
If you were to do another, is it about the location?
Is it about the terrain?
Are you interested in a hillier or a flatter?
Are you motivated by taking that 249 maybe to a 245 or heck a sub 237, which would qualify you for the Olympic trials?
What intrigues you in marathoning?
I think that times intrigue me the most in marathoning because I feel more of the exploration intrigue when I'm on a trail.
And yeah, just seeing those types of areas feels more like I'm exploring.
This feels like I'm exploring, but like more in my brain and in my body, to like see what it's capable of in a finish time.
I mean it sounds like this race, Even with some of the later miles that felt a little hard, which is normal in a marathon, it didn't destroy you.
What do you think you're capable of when it comes to marathon times?
I have no idea.
Yeah, I wonder the same thing.
And I think I need to find out.
When you hear sub 237, which again that's the Olympic trials qualifying time for the women, and the trials year will be 2028.
Does that seem like whoa that?
I mean, going from 249 to 237 is a huge jump.
And you're Courtney DeWalter and you're just scratching the surface.
How does sub 237 sound?
That sounds insane.
You guys are a bunch of, you guys are a bunch of maniacs.
I do wonder though, if you went for it and you qualify, would you be the first Olympic trials qualifier to do so in basketball shorts?
I mean, let's break records.
Let's go for it.
Yeah, yeah.
Because, I mean, those shorts worked perfectly.
Yeah, always do.
Any length short, it will work.
Whatever you're comfortable in.
It's the DeWalter way, and I love it.
So what do you think?
I always...
I always hate to ask, but I do it anyway.
So why preface it with this?
But do you know what's next on the run for you?
Do you have races that you're eyeing in the future?
Is there anything that you're committed to?
Are we in an off season?
Where are you at?
I actually got so fired up from doing that one and wanting to take those learnings and try and build off of that momentum that I'm headed to CIM in December.
Stop.
Yes.
Breaking news.
Oh my gosh.
I love this.
Yeah.
So please help, help me.
Okay.
So what will be different then between, you know, now and CIM, how are you tweaking your training?
Are you doing anything different or are you just kind of going to push the pace a little bit more?
And then of course, is there a goal time in mind for number two, number two this year?
That is.
Yeah, I think I'm interested in just having a longer on-ramp towards the race, like a little more time, some more weeks to string together, to really dive into trying to figure out how to get a pace or how to get a little bit faster for longer, all of those pieces.
So it feels like the... the timing then like twin cities marathon.
And then these weeks leading up to CIM can kind of be this like uh, momentum building, like you know, springboard to see what's possible in December.
But um, I still need to like uh yeah, basically crowdsource and talk to as many people as possible.
And like, okay, what are your like, go-to workouts?
What are the you know big hitters that you really recommend?
I try and figure out how to incorporate.
And then the timing, like when do people do some of those things in a build, when there's, you know, I don't know how many weeks at this point, but over a month of getting ready for it?
What does that look like actually?
Yeah.
This is exciting.
If you thought there was fanfare around Twin Cities, CIM is like.
I mean, that's where people go to run their trials qualifiers.
It is a fast field.
So are you... Do they have an elite field at CIM?
They must, right?
Are you in it?
They do.
I think stuff was really full up and yeah, it all just sort of happened in this past week.
So I'm in a field in it and I think we start right behind the elites.
So hopefully I could, you know, try to latch into some sort of group.
I want that like pack mentality.
Yeah, I just I don't know what it's even like.
Like What does it feel like to be plowing through all together like that and yet charging off of each other's energy?
So I would love if I could experience that, but I know for sure I need to try to be able to hold a faster pace in order to stay with a pack like that.
So that will be the goal I think of how can I get myself to a place where I could experience that part of marathon running?
I love that that's what you're excited about.
That's such a cool outlook of just wanting to be a part of it.
That's such a Courtney DeWalter answer too.
But I mean, you know, I think also when you're in that pack, when you find yourself tucked in, like the times come with it, because when you're in a group it's like it's so motivating.
What can't you do?
It's pretty awesome.
Will you have bottle service at this one?
I will not have bottles of this one.
OK, so what have you thought about what you'll do?
Well, tell me, what do people do?
I put some gels somewhere on me.
I hit the aid station water cups and just drown myself.
Yeah.
The strategy.
Yeah.
I mean ideally when you get to the cups.
The trick is you want to try to pinch it a little.
You know pinch it.
So it makes a little spout for you and try to drink.
I mean, I am awful at a water station.
I'm usually soaking wet by the end, get very little in my actual mouth.
So I'm not the person to ask.
Yeah.
People carry gels.
If gels choose whatever.
Whatever works for you is you know.
Fill those pockets in your shorts, up with them.
Wear a belt.
I don't know if, hydration vests are and are not allowed at some races.
So you gotta find out about that.
Uh, and then, yeah, see what they have as the on course nutrition.
And you can always use that.
I like to bring my own.
I never.
I mean they're not going to run out when you come through, but I always worry about them running out.
You'll be fine.
But, um, Yeah, this is all super helpful.
I gotta, yeah, this is, I'm so excited.
Oh my gosh, I love this.
Okay, so don't run New York in two weeks.
Okay.
That wouldn't be a good build.
I mean, you need to do your long runs.
You may as well just make it 26.2 in the greatest city of the world.
So I'm not taking that off the table.
I still think it's a good idea.
But also I've been known to not have good ideas.
So do what seems right for you.
And maybe don't throw a marathon in as you're building to another.
I think personally, I think you'd be fine.
What was the finish line like at Twin Cities?
Oh, it was really cool.
Yeah, it was cool to finish and and feel like kind of this whoa sensation of like whoa.
You know, we made it, we got under three hours like, and had so much fun.
And now my legs feel kind of jello-y, which was cool.
Like, yeah, just feeling of like, yeah, you did something and you tried hard at it.
And I like that feeling.
And then my family was there.
So got to hang out with them.
And yeah, sharing finish lines with people is always the best.
And from the way you're talking, it sounds like, yes, you had a time that would be great.
That sub three or those 630 miles.
I mean, you shattered that running 249.
How does that feel to you being a 249 marathoner?
What kind of weight does that carry?
I don't know.
Like, I don't care.
Yeah well, it's just such an interesting like, I guess, difference between the races I normally do and the marathon world, because when you finish a hundred mile race, no one asks a time.
You know.
It's like tell me what things happened to you out on that trail.
What'd you hallucinate?
Like what snacks did you eat?
Tell me some gnarly stories about your, you know, overnight, whatever.
It's like all about the like experience.
And then with a marathon, it's very much like what's the time that you hit kind of a question almost right away when people talk about them and um, And there's like, but there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm just like not accustomed to it.
So like, to me, the time it was a part of the story of twin cities for sure.
But, um, it's not like programmed in to me to like carry weight with that time.
I love hearing that.
What did it feel like to run an entire race in daylight?
Yeah, so crazy.
And my family was talking about it a bunch, because they're like wait, we should come to more of these races of yours.
Like they had breakfast at home.
They drove around and cheered at a few spots.
And then they were home for lunch already.
We weren't shoved in a car overnight, bouncing along four-wheel drive roads like crazy.
Yeah.
You never changed, never changed socks along the way.
Didn't sit in a chair real quick.
Just, just running when you were done.
Yeah.
And then it's done.
Everyone goes to lunch.
Heck yeah.
And then snacks and then dinner, you get the whole day to eat.
It is pretty great.
Yeah.
And then you sleep in a bed overnight.
Yeah.
All these strange new sensations.
I know.
Marathoning is kind of glamorous when you think about it.
What were there?
You mentioned early on that there were parts that were maybe more affected, parts of your body that were more affected by the marathon that you're not used to.
What?
Were there parts of you that were sore or just felt a different way after that?
You're not used to.
Yeah, my upper hamstrings were pretty sore the next few days.
Like uh yeah, moving around didn't look very graceful for a little bit there and I um yeah, I think they were just like what did you just do?
Oh, the marathon shuffle is the best.
When I was at the airport uh, two days ago flying back, the like O'Hare was just people hobbling around and I was like you are all amazing.
You look so bad.
Like you are just, you're shuffling, you're in pain.
Like you just have to laugh at it, because it's amazing to just see this like tens of thousands of people grownups, just shuffling.
Yeah, grownups.
Yep.
Like you chose this.
I don't know what to tell you.
Enjoy sitting on your flight.
I love that though.
Don't we?
It's like, I don't know.
It's like when you like, get an injury or like get hurt.
Like you get hit by something or run into something and it doesn't bruise.
It's kind of disappointing.
Like what was the point of that?
You want the bruise to like tell the story and show really what you did there.
And the same with the hobble, the post-race hobble.
You sort of want it because you're like it means I did something cool and And I tried really hard.
And now I have this hobble to show for it.
Yeah.
Who needs a medal when the true badge of honor is an inability to walk down a flight of stairs?
Yeah.
Or like get up out of a chair.
Yeah.
Just crying.
Well, yay.
I love that you're a part of this community.
I am really excited.
This is a fun part of your career right now to be watching is to see you out on the roads.
People are going to go crazy when they hear that you're running CIM.
I think there's going to be a lot of Courtney excitement.
And I do.
I truly hope that you feel welcomed and celebrated in the marathon community.
I know that you have that in spades in the ultra community, but I do hope that, as you're well, more than dipping your toes and I think you're full body plunged into marathoning now.
But I hope that you feel that from the marathon community that that you're a part of it.
And we're excited that you're here.
Well, thank you.
It's cool to be part of and happy to take any of you road marathoners out on the trails sometime as well, because that's a pretty cool world as well.
I do think that all road racers at some point, myself included, I've never done a trail race.
I do think we all should do at least one just to see like.
Oh, Hey, and not that trail running isn't serious.
Obviously these athletes you included are taking it very seriously and are very committed.
But from what I've heard, the vibes are more chill.
And I think that that would be good for all of us road racers to experience and maybe bring a little of that into road racing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just, yeah.
I mean, we're an intense bunch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, before I let you go, it's been a minute since you've been on the show.
So I need to put you through the sprint to the finish round.
And ask you some rapid-fire questions.
Are you ready?
Okay, I love it.
I love it.
What would your last meal on Earth be?
A giant plate of nachos followed by a huge bowl of frozen yogurt with all of the candy toppings.
You know, I feel like I could have answered that one for you.
Yeah.
I think I would have gotten it right.
Too predictable.
Favorite movie?
Okay.
I really love and couldn't rewatch a lot.
Pitch perfect.
It's in my top six.
Yes.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Every time we talk, I'm like, so we were just destined to be best friends.
Yeah.
We need to just have a movie and candy and nacho marathon.
Yeah.
Sign me up.
Let's do it.
Favorite TV show.
Tricky.
Yeah. but I did just rewatch, um, quite a bit of Ted Lasso.
And I love it.
I also just rewatched Ted Lasso for like Oh, I mean I've rewatched Ted Lasso like 12 times, but yeah, one of my good friends had never seen it and he was visiting and I was like we're queuing it up.
And so we just like plowed through three seasons so he could bask in the greatness that is Ted Lasso.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good answer.
What food reminds you of your childhood?
I'm going to go with, gosh, so many.
Probably candy being poured into like porcelain bowls, you know, to be set out on the counter.
I thought you were going to say being poured into my mouth.
And I was like, yes.
Who would you want to play you in a movie?
Oh, man.
These are hard.
Thank you.
Maybe Amy Poehler.
And again, I was just listening to Good Hang, her podcast, on my walk today.
Yeah, she cracks me up.
The best.
Favorite pasta shape?
The ones that are like a little ear almost.
Elbows?
Kind of.
Oh, orecchiette?
Maybe.
I think they're quite fancy.
Yeah.
I love orecchiette with sausage and broccoli rabe.
Perfect.
What was your very first job?
I had a newspaper route that I shared with my brother when we were really young, probably like early middle school.
And then I was a waitress for quite a few years through high school.
Did you like it?
Yeah, I loved it.
I could see that for you.
I could see you liking it.
Yeah.
Just slinging French fries and Diet Cokes.
Hell yeah.
When you were little, what did you want to be when you grew up?
I think I had no idea, but I thought, I think.
At one point I thought I wanted to be like a children's book illustrator.
Oh, illustrator.
I'm not even good at drawing, so...
I'm going to have you on my Pictionary team.
We can have some fun.
All right.
This is a Ted Lasso question that I stole from the show, which is first concert, best concert.
First concert.
Man, these are so hard.
I'm sorry.
This is supposed to be fun.
No, it is.
Are you mad at me?
No.
First concert might have been Britney Spears.
Same.
Same.
Was it?
Yeah.
Um, my parents tell me I saw chubby checker when I was little, but I don't really have memories of that or like know who that is.
But yes, I saw Britney Spears in Boston.
Me and my friends like took the bus down and went and saw Britney Spears.
Yeah.
Oh man.
And I think best concert.
I saw Zach Brown band a bunch of times and I love going to his concerts.
Oh, but I did see Taylor Swift, uh, On her tour.
So that was the Ares tour.
Yeah.
Where?
What city?
In Vancouver.
I was supposed to go in Vancouver, but it was the same.
My friend got us tickets, but it was the same night as my daughter's holiday dance recital.
And I was like, nope. not missing it.
And so I missed the heiress tour.
But now we're getting the whole behind the scenes documentary about it.
So, um, what was, okay, wait, what was your favorite part of the concert?
Favorite era?
All of it.
The whole thing.
Like it was just like a whole, like good energy scene in there the whole time.
Oh, I'm so jealous.
Biggest pet peeve.
Um, I don't know that I have one.
I knew you were going to say that.
In my head, I was like, she's going to say she doesn't have one.
She's Courtney DeWalter and nothing bothers her.
She just like stays in her lane and lets people live their lives.
What's yours?
I could list 80.
How much time do you have?
People who drive slowly in the left lane, move over, slow walkers.
I feel bad saying mine because they're all just like things other people do.
And again, I should just let people live their lives.
But yeah, no, everything bothers me.
Yes.
Mostly like have more urgency, people.
That's a big one for me.
I don't like when people are late.
That really bothers me.
I don't like when people are... Wait, come to the trails.
Come join us on the trails.
I clearly need to.
I clearly need to.
That's what's going to cure me.
Like forget therapy.
Martha, we're good.
We're taking a beat.
I'm just going to go to the trails and it'll cure all of my annoyances with people.
But yeah, like don't litter.
Don't smoke your cigarettes right outside the front door to a place.
That's rude and you're gross.
I'll see you on the trails.
We're going to cure this.
If you could take a class in anything, what would it be?
I want to take a class in French.
I want to learn some French.
Oh, I just watched the episode of friends when Phoebe tries to teach Joey how to speak French.
Yeah.
That's not quite what I'm saying.
Classic.
All right.
I think we do this every time, but it's still on the list.
Favorite candy.
I mean, right now it's candy corn.
Seasonally conversation hearts take the cake and then year round it's jelly beans.
All good.
Not enough chocolate in that answer for me, but I'm happy for you.
If you could go for a run with anyone, who would it be?
Uh, I want to take you on the trails.
Let's go.
Oh, that's such a nice answer.
I want that too.
If you could choose anyone to pace you at CIM, who would it be?
Oh gosh.
Who, anyone, any of you pro marathoners come help me and bring your friends.
So we have a pack.
Yeah, let's make a little pack that goes my speed so I could experience the pack.
You know that you're going to get DMs after this, right?
From people being like, hey, Courtney, I'm running CIM.
I think our times are aligned.
This is going to happen, and I hope you're prepared.
I'm ready.
I'm so excited.
In one word, how does running make you feel?
So much joy.
Give everyone listening a reason to go for a run.
Oh, why not?
I think the reason is why not?
Perfect.
There's a million reasons.
Yeah.
I love it.
Courtney, I always love getting to talk to you.
This is so fun.
I'm really excited about your run at Twin Cities.
I'm excited for you to run CIM.
I think I speak for all of us marathoners when I say we're so excited to have you.
And it's really fun to have you in this community.
So thanks for showing up and being a part of it.
And good luck at CIM and beyond.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for being here for this episode of the Allie on the Run show with my guest, Courtney DeWalter.
It is always such a good time when Courtney's here on the show.
So thank you, Courtney, for making the time.
And thanks to all of you for tuning in.
I have no doubt you will be giving her the warmest welcome at CIM in December and showing her all kinds of love in the pack and beyond.
Thank you, of course, to Lagoon for supporting this episode and for making all that I do possible.
Lagoon is an absolutely incredible partner.
I love Ryan and the team there.
So one of the best ways to support me and my work is by supporting Lagoon and using that discount code and offer which, as always, is in the show notes for this episode.
While you're referencing that, make sure you subscribe.
That way you don't miss a thing.
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And, if you feel like it, you can leave a rating, review or comment on iTunes, Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
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