I'm doing something different.
I'm doing something that feels like me.
Because I show it to my friends and they're like, this is so you, man.
And I'm like, thank you.
And then I show it to my parents and they're like, not sure I get this, Claire.
And that's awesome.
That's how it should be.
So charm, third record, third time's a charm.
Is it a record about being charming, being charmed?
Yeah, I would say that that's kind of the crux of the meaning of the record.
I just found that word to be so interesting.
And I really liked the idea of the gray area and the buzziness that two people can feel when they're being charmed by each other.
Because it usually happens before they really know each other.
It's kind of like a crush, where it's like there's a definite lack of information about this person, but you know enough to make your own opinion.
And I kind of wanted the record to live in this bubble of that gray area.
And then I make up the rest of the story, whether it's good or bad, I guess.
I think the last time that we saw each other was Glasto 2022.
Just before you and Arlo went on stage on the pyramid stage with Lorde.
Yeah.
Which was insane.
It was really fun.
I remember we sat down then and you said to me something along the lines of kind of want to explore sexiness for the next record, and it's not.
When you say it like that, it sounds weird, doesn't it?
Oh my lord, i can't believe you're saying this right now, but when i yeah, but when i heard sexy to someone, i get it.
Yeah, because it's the same thing that you're saying with charm.
It's like well, these are strong, important things that go on inside of us, every single person on this planet.
That's a good thing to kind of zone in on and think, well, why do I feel this way?
What does it mean?
I've been toying with the idea of this type of record for a while.
I think especially because Sling was so serious and it was so focused on domestic life and kind of slowing down.
I also realized that writing about sensuality, or exploring my sensuality through music, even if the songs aren't very sensual, it was important for me to do.
I just think, because maybe I'd never written that way or maybe I'd never really thought that that was a huge part of my life.
I never really connected to it until I realized that it was like a lacking element of a whole person.
Everyone should talk about it.
There's something about reconnecting to my individuality or maybe my femininity that I had lost, that I now feel closer to think.
You said to me in the sling interview there was a really kind of stark moment in that that I can remember where you said I don't know if I'm going to make another record.
And I think you said I kind of got dreams of just stopping and becoming a teacher or something like that, and it could be five years, it could be 10 years before I do music again.
And you were obviously at a point back then where you know there's a lot going on in your in your mind and in your inside.
What changed?
Was there a kind of moment where suddenly it was like yep, i'm ready, i can do it?
That really was how i was feeling for a long time, which is very interesting to think about now.
What changed?
Probably moving to where i wanted to move and getting the dog and living that way and Also meeting my producer for this record, Leon Michaels like totally changed my life and was something that happened out of life experience and not necessarily like out of me looking for somebody.
Like I had.
I was a big fan of his and I reached out and I realized that we lived closer than I thought.
I mean, I didn't know where he lived, but I definitely didn't think it was near me.
And so I just started driving over there and we started making music, and then it just sort of happened, which I think actually was really healthy.
Like it wasn't something that was planned and it wasn't something that felt forced.
It wasn't premeditated at all.
It was just something that happened.
And so I went with it because I was doing it.
I think for someone to bring me out of that it means everything.
It was so cool and it was such a different direction and it was something really fresh and new and i think putting my energy into that was worth it.
It's funny because i think you're like number one big crown.
I am like the biggest fan, like i heard that label because of you posting piece of me by lady ray like five years ago when it originally came out, and the.
I mean I can't believe Leon is the co-owner of Big Crown.
It's a small-ish label who constantly put out very, very good music.
And anyone who hears your record, that's the vibe of what they're about.
You know, it just is.
I'm amazed they're not bigger than they actually are.
But part of me loves how niche it is.
It does feel like this little thing that if you're in the know, you discover Big Crown and you're in this world and it's brilliant.
Yeah, they're incredible.
They're incredible people.
They sign incredible artists like everyone that I've met that's on that label is amazing.
They deserve the world.
Very dreamy to be working alongside them and working in their world.
And they were so welcoming to me coming in and like being a fan and also working with Leon, and it just was so easy and and special.
Yeah I, like truly, am still fanning out.
Yeah yeah, because I just I'm, I'm a big fan.
I was going to say how special was it.
Because you've done collaborations with them over the last couple of years.
What was it like getting a 45 with your name written on it?
That was very surreal.
Yeah, that was extremely surreal.
I'm still so giddy over that.
Do you ever play it or do you just like frame it and look at it on the wall?
I have like 20 of them.
So, yeah, I'm really, really, really so happy about that.
Things like that.
I think for me, if I was in your position, that would be the kind of thing where I would see it as a major win.
More than like streaming numbers or sales or shows selling out.
Things like that, where it's like I really love what these people are about musically and I get to work with them and I get this product at the end of it, which is mine.
That's everything for me at the end of the day.
That relationship, them being so welcoming to me and it just being such an easy, beautiful process I think that's what matters the most to me.
I have the most fun when I'm making the record and and creating like long relationships with the people I'm making it with and Yeah, they just, they really changed my perspective on my life and what I could do and the things that were important to me.
They helped me like reframe all of that as well.
Sort of just like none of this matters.
This is really important and this is what you should be focusing on.
And their perspective has bled into mine.
And now I just feel a lot better about it all.
How do you feel about your place as a musician at the moment, a professional musician?
Are you happy with where you're at?
That's a big question.
Matt Wilkinson.
That's a big answer.
It is.
Yeah, I feel good.
Well, what was really interesting about this record actually was I revisited a lot of my SoundCloud music and a lot of my first records.
And I guess slang.
I guess I just really decided to look back on everything I had made and try to understand what the thread was between all of them.
What made it a song that was mine?
And I had kind of a hard time finding it.
But I found it most in some of the earlier things, maybe the things I was doing on my own.
I can find it in the songwriting and anything that I've put out, but maybe, like my own specific style, I found in the things I made in high school which was really interesting because I never really thought that I would revisit those things so seriously.
But it was a big part in this record kind of closing this loop for myself, of revisiting the thing that I had started with.
So I guess I do feel good right now because I have revisited something that started it.
That feels good.
But yeah, I don't really know how I feel yet.
Do you think that's something that last point you made.
Is that something that?
Do you think that's common for a lot of artists nowadays?
It must be.
I think.
I think people might have a difficult time revisiting past work.
Or I just talked to some people last night and they were saying that some demos from 10 years ago are going on their next thing.
And it's like everyone has a different relationship, I guess, with their old work, because of maybe, whether I think it depends whether or not they put it out.
Because revisiting old demos that I didn't put out, I think is easier than revisiting the ones that have lived on the internet for a long time.
Your judgment.
The older you get and the more time you spend in music.
Your judgment is probably better on what's good and what's not.
Like when you're 16 deciding, should I put this on SoundCloud or not?
Well, there's no thinking.
It's just doing.
How do I feel at this moment?
Yeah.
There's something really cool about that, though.
Like I'm happy that I have documented this time in my life, because I just did it instead of thinking about it.
I'm much happier that it exists instead of it not, I guess.
But I also think the more time I spend, the older I get And the more time that is between me and the music on SoundCloud, the more I actually enjoy it.
Because I don't really resonate with that person anymore.
I'm a totally different human.
What do you think when you look back at her?
Well, I mean, she was sweet.
She was trying stuff out.
She was doing it.
But yeah, I think it takes time to be able to look back on that version of yourself fondly.
Because for so long, I just never wanted to look back on anything.
And I was very concerned with her.
I didn't really want to look at her.
She's come around now.
She's come around.
She has a place at the table.
Yeah.
Yeah, she does.
I like that.
That's been cool.
That feels good.
Is there like much camaraderie between you?
Know, I know that you have the ear of people like Frank and Billy.
They're interested in what you're doing.
You're interested in what they're doing.
At that highest level, I would imagine it's quite lonely and isolating, potentially.
Is there camaraderie between you guys just as people away from these people being huge stars?
I think so.
Yeah.
One of the greatest things in the world is meeting people that have been in your orbit in one way or another.
You guys are both making music and it's you're never in the same place and somehow you overlap in this one city.
You meet up and you talk about it.
You're like you feel all the same feelings and you're able to validate each other on some of the weird aspects of being a musician in 2024, and i think that really helps me.
Um, having those conversations is so incredible because I think the last time we spoke, I had mentioned something about really wanting someone to like understand what I was talking about and not just have empathy for me.
And we can talk about this weird nuance that happens in music.
And Those conversations have saved me a million times, because it is very isolating and it is weird.
There's no way around the fact that it's weird.
Do you share music with them before it's come out as well?
Yeah.
Do you extend to that, really?
I have before, yeah.
It's very nerve-wracking to do that.
What happened in that instance?
It was good.
It was good.
It was cool.
I mean...
I haven't done it very much.
What record was it for?
This one.
Can you say who?
Or what they said?
No.
But it was good.
And I was happy that they listened to it.
And that was really awesome.
Did you get more nervous sharing music with someone like that, another contemporary musician, or like your parents?
No.
Yeah, definitely more musicians.
But actually this was the first time.
This record was the first time where my mom didn't immediately like something.
And I actually found it to be this beautiful moment where I finally was making something that she didn't like.
There's something really good about it.
She didn't get it.
And I was like, that's awesome.
Because now I'm finally doing something different, doing something that feels like me.
Because I show it to my friends and they're like, this is so you, man.
And I'm like, thank you.
And then I show it to my parents and they're like, not sure I get this, Claire.
And that's awesome.
That's how it should be.
I love my parents.
Yeah.
But they like the same things that I like.
And I'm sure that in generations gone by, you're meant to rebel against your parents.
And maybe my music has never felt rebellious enough from them.
So this is awesome.
We need the Screamo EP.
The metal EP.
I don't think that's coming.
I have never raised my voice.
Yeah, definitely more scary to send to musicians, obviously because they have the same ear that you do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The same amount of critique that you're giving yourself, like maybe they're giving your music?
And Would you ever collaborate with anyone on the kind of the A-list tier, you know, the biggest artists on the planet?
Or is it a kind of weird... The biggest artists on the planet?
Well, you know what I mean, like the kind of the Franks, the Billys or the Lords or...
I mean, of course.
If the opportunity and the situation felt natural and genuine, then that's a definite yes.
Like, they're amazing musicians and those types of things...
Or just collaborations in general, and realizing that the best ones are just really when it's through genuine connection and friendship and like spur of the moment.
What if we did this type thing instead of it being this like put together thing.
Speaking of Lorde, who I just mentioned then.
What was your reaction when you read the lyrics to the Charlie collaboration that just came out?
I love that song.
Yeah.
I love that song.
I mean, they're both genius to me.
Like, Charlie has been someone I've looked up to forever and same thing with Lorde.
I like just couldn't appreciate what they're doing more.
The level of openness is stark, isn't it?
There was a gap that needed to be filled.
When I talk about it with my friends or when I really listen to it,
I'm like I've needed someone to say these things to me or remind me of how tricky dynamics can be within female friendships.
And like you can see what type of person you are in the situation between friendships.
Like maybe you.
We're Charlie or maybe you were Lorde in a situation and it really resonates.
That's why I think everyone is talking about it, because it's actually saying something that we're all thinking, which is the point of music.
So with Charm, now that it's released, it's been made, it's out of your hands you can kind of just open that door and look back at the creation of it.
How enjoyable was it making this record in comparison to the other two albums?
I really liked making this record because Leon had brought in Homer Steinwise and Nick Mobshawn legends.
And they worked on the entire album.
And then we had other friends come in.
What's their background?
Are they Dap Kings?
No, Homer was.
And Nick and Homer both played on Back to Black.
Wow.
And Leon was in the Dap Kings as well.
So their background is insane.
And they've worked on so many amazing records as a as a group individually.
Like the three of them have been working together.
They've been friends since they were like 13.
So entering their sphere was awesome because they have this very symbiotic relationship where they can just play immediately and they know what the next person's doing and they just talk about it for five seconds and then it's beautiful and done.
But this record was so performance-based because every song was recorded like a live.
Like live, I guess.
Watching a band bring my songs to life or watching them come up with something was incredible.
There's something to be said about demo-itis, I think, isn't there?
There's just a magic that you sometimes capture the first time you switch on a microphone and you sing or play into it that you can't ever replicate.
No.
And I actually think that these songs ended up being very similar to the demos, which I was very happy with, because it was really cool to just make something and be like it's awesome, move on, put on an album.
Yeah, just do it again, do it again.
I'm so proud of this record.
I never thought i would make a record like this.
I'm just so stoked about it because the thing with you is you always switch it up.
Every single project is slightly different, not even just albums, but eps.
But there's something about this one and big crown to me as an outsider, they just feel like your family and I.
Just the temptation must be there to be like yeah, this is too good.
Let's do more of this.
I don't know.
I think it will expand a little bit.
I do think I've like figured something out with this record in terms of like, personal style and maybe my own voice.
I guess it's just where you end up, where you are at that time when suddenly the feeling comes and it's like all right, I'm ready to go back into the studio.
Where's my head at right now?
I did like taking the amount of time I took, though.
I think it would be like close to three years since Sling.
That was a great amount of time to figure it out.
I would even dare to say I could take longer.
But that's like you said that in the last interview and then you did it and it worked.
It did work.
It really does work.
I was burnt out and I finally feel like I'm building myself back up again with music.
I feel really proud of.
Once again, it is a great record.
Thank you.
Congratulations.
I love it.
It's good to have you back in the studio as well and reconnect after all this time.
Thanks, Claire.
Thanks again for having me.
