There is a motto there from Chiang Kai to Shanghai and basically that means that when you think about exporting goods from Latin America in the past as was mentioned before it was very challenging because you needed to spend like a maybe 40 days for goods to go from this place from Latin America to
China and other Asian markets.
Now with the availability of this new port, Chiang Kai port, that's going to be a help for companies in Peru and also in our neighboring countries like Chile, Bolivia, Brazil, Argentina, Vietnam, Ecuador, Colombia because they will also want to be competitive.
So most countries from the global south and China included, we want to continue with this agenda which was the goal of Apex in the very beginning and the Western power are questioning this as long as it's not benefiting them anymore or they believe it's not benefiting them because this is a political
question not economic question.
There's a new technology which is being developed specifically by Huawei in China called low band 5G in which it uses longer bandwidths which reach much further and compromise little on the data speeds and is bringing 5G technology across into these rural areas of Mexico.
The chat lounge, chat lounge, chat lounge.
The chat lounge unpacks views and opinions on hot issues in a more casual way.
Welcome to the special edition of chat lounge.
I'm Shuya Wen in Beijing.
In this episode, we delve into the Asia Pacific economic cooperation or APEC to review its path to inclusive cooperation and explore how it can drive growth in the global south.
Established in 1989, APEC aims to facilitate regional trade and cooperation.
With 21 member economies, APEC represents 37 % of the world's population, nearly half of the global trade and approximately 60 % of the global economy.
This year, Peru will host the annual APEC summit from November 10th to 16th.
Under the theme empower, include, grow.
What key issues will be discussed at the summit?
What business opportunities can China and Latin American countries explore to support growth in the global south?
And how can common challenges be addressed through innovation and technology?
For more, let's bring in our panelists.
Joining us in the studio is Edgar Perez, American -Peruvian business author and keynote speaker on artificial intelligence and new technologies.
And also joining us on the line is Maria Sanguazi.
She's the journalist from Chile and also, Alessia Bevastok.
He's the CGTN correspondent in Mexico.
Edgar, let me come to you first.
You were born and raised in Peru and received your MBA program in the United States, started a career there, and then about five years ago, you moved to China.
So, share with us some stories about what made you come to this country and your journey so far.
Thank you. As you mentioned, I am a keynote speaker, meaning I speak in front of audiences in major conferences around the world on AI and new technologies.
As such, I visited 25 countries and presented in front of hundreds of executives.
Now, when you think about my particular activity, I traveled the world.
That's my business.
I work with conference organizers all over the world, meaning that if I saw more opportunities in Asia, I thought maybe it was a good idea for me to move from America to Asia.
And obviously, China was a good place because my second goal was for my family to speak Chinese, in this case, my children.
So we were able to definitely move to China and we were able actually to see my children develop in their Chinese capabilities.
That's very impressive because for technology, you want to see as much as possible so that you can absorb newest developments of the field.
So we know Peru will host the APEC Summit this year.
What's the key agenda for Peru to host the summit?
And also, what deal might be reached during the meeting?
Well, for Peru, it's a wonderful opportunity to host the APEC Summit for the third time.
Peru has been a member of the summit since 1998, back in the government of Alberto Fujimori, who had the vision to ask Peru to be a member of this important community.
Now, 2008, 2016, and now 2024, Peru basically is looking to expand conversations in three different areas, trade, investments, and tourism.
When you think about trade, obviously there's a lot of opportunities for Peru where mostly big companies are trading with companies in this sector.
We still have a big segment of small enterprises that could take advantage of the opportunities afforded by this block.
On the other hand, when you think about investment, equally Peru still needs to be developed.
There are many opportunities in the country, both in the coast, in the jungle, in the highlands, and so on.
So obviously, being there in the center of the action by having investors come into the country, it's a great opportunity for Peru to showcase those opportunities.
And finally, tourism.
You might know Machu Picchu.
It's our main attraction.
We have one million people coming to this attraction every year, but nothing stops us from expanding this number even higher.
When countries like Paris or cities like Paris or Spain, they actually receive millions of people, 50 million people every year.
So obviously, those three areas are key factors for Peru to again host this important event.
Maria, let me come to you.
As this year's APAC will take place in Peru, what is the significance of having a Latin American country host the meeting?
I think it's important for us to understand the context because we are coming out of a BRICS summit, which was very important for geopolitics.
We see how much the media concentrate in BRICS because the global south is not just aspiring, but is committing to finding new paths for development.
But we feel, and we agree, despite of the political difference and political system, that this current word, institutionality, this global governance, is just not attending the needs of the global south.
So APAC is not happening at any time.
It's happening right now, where many countries are questioning this.
And it's very symbolic that it's taking place in a southernist country.
So our main goal, I think it's very clear, to diversify our economies, to open new markets, to get investments, because one of the biggest problems of the global south is the whole background of colonization.
So our resources were taken away from us, but nothing came in return, and we really want to change this dynamic.
So I think it's tremendously symbolic that after BRICS, a text takes place in a country from the global south.
Alex, there, as a correspondent in Mexico, which APAC agenda items are of particular interest to you?
I mean, how can Peru, hosting APAC, better represent the voice of Latin American countries than those in the global south?
Well, it's a very good question.
And Maria has gone right to the heart of it, in that the global south has often had a very difficult history over the past 500 years of colonization and a lot of resources taken and not a lot given.
Well, if there's one thing that APAC is all about, it's about trade and increasing trade flows.
Ever since its inception in the late eighties, as you mentioned today, Pacific trade within APAC, we see exports in the region of one point four trillion dollars and imports in the region of ten point nine trillion dollars.
That means that APAC itself, the community and the trade region, there is a trade surplus of APAC.
There's more products going outside of APAC to the rest of the world than is coming in.
That's a positive thing.
That's something which which offers trade.
It offers economic benefits and particularly for countries which are in the global south.
In Latin America, we see Mexico, Peru and Chile.
Chile is probably the most developed country in Latin America.
But certainly when it comes to Mexico and Peru, we see trade opportunities for these countries and particularly in the context of the growing speed of Pacific logistics.
Today, a freighter carry a mega freighter will carry from Lima to Shanghai in 34 days, making stops all along the Pacific Rim as it goes round the north side of the Pacific Ring.
So taking on board, unloading that gives producers in Lima within a month direct access to the Chinese markets, which is a huge benefit and all the markets along the way.
So that's something which is particularly good for non -perishable products.
You can't send a container of onions to Shanghai, but what you can do is send more elaborated products.
And we see perfect examples within the APAC region, Chilean wine in Shanghai.
We see Mexican tequila in Perth, Australia.
We see Peruvian alpaca wool being put to use in Alaska and places like this.
You can imagine in Hokkaido in the north of Japan, Peruvian alpaca wool is a premium product.
And that's what the whole point of this APEC thing is, allowing these products to expand across this enormous trade region.
And for the global south, when it comes to placing those products, it's APEC, which is they have the coastlines, they have the port infrastructure and it's a direct route into these markets.
So it's the economic trade opportunities which summits like this allow for greater supply chains and that development in that aspect.
Edgar, Maria and Alice there, they have both talked about trade and investment within the APEC, Asia Pacific region.
So we know this is one of the key issues to be discussed during the summit.
And when we zoom into China and Peru, bilateral trade, we know Peru was the first Latin American countries that have signed the comprehensive free trade agreement with China.
So what achievements have been made since this FDA took effect in 2010?
Right. Well, I think it's very important to consider that when you think about signing a free trade agreement, you're really opening doors for many producers that didn't have this opportunity before.
You want to be competitive in this world.
And if you have producers, we still have to pay fees to other countries to transport the products from Peru to other markets.
Obviously, there is a challenge there.
The vision of this agreement, of course, was to facilitate trade.
Not only Peru's trade towards China, but also the other way, too.
And that happened. Most of the products that are traded between Peru and China now are covered with these the parameters of this trade agreement.
That being said, the world is changing.
And by that, we mean that also we need to make sure that these agreements are going to evolve with time.
And that's why that Peru and China have completed already some negotiations for what's going to be the upgraded agreement.
And this agreement is going to be signed soon.
It's that the negotiations have been finished already.
But that means that now we're going to enter into a new world.
10 years ago, we didn't think about digital economies.
We didn't think about, for example, renewable energies as much as we talked today.
And that's a type of elements that now to be incorporated in a new agreement that will incorporate, for example, what type of support can China help provide Peru to improve that infrastructure?
When you think about digital infrastructure, obviously, Peru is still miles away from the development that you see in developed countries.
That is something that could be embedded into the subgrade of the agreement.
And that's what Peru is looking forward to seeing under the auspicious of these new meeting.
Maria, Chile has also signed a free trade agreement with China and under the agreement, people in both countries can enjoy a variety of high quality and affordable products.
For example, Chile's cherry are very popular here in China.
In January alone, about 93 percent of Chile's exported cherries went to Chinese markets and generating about one point five billion in revenue, which is the 30 percent increase compared to last year.
So this is just one simple example of how two countries benefit from free trade agreement.
And they are more cooperating in other sectors as well.
So could you share with us some more examples?
Yes. So Chile was the first country in Latin America who signed a free trade agreement with China.
It was a pioneer in that sense.
There was a vision about opening the Pacific.
Very interesting, because Chile is a country, right?
Nevertheless, we are located in the Pacific.
And I think it's a good example to understand how the war trade dynamics have changed, because in the past it was everything about the Atlantic.
And if we are talking about a big it's because the Pacific is the place where most goods are being transport, where most population is living.
The largest amount of capital are being located in the in the Pacific.
So it has an extremely important and for small countries.
It's not just benefiting them, but they must shift towards the Pacific if they want to grow economically.
So Chile had this agreement of free trade commerce with China, and it was very revolutionary because we have this background of colonization and we have oriented our market stores, traditional European partners and the United States.
And the commercial balance was disfavor in us for a very long time.
It just shifted at the time that we started to trade with China.
So it's not that just several markets grow exponentially, like the products we produce, the most agricultural products, some minerals which are very relevant for China as well, like copper, wine, avocado, you know, this future products that we see in many, many Chinese supermarkets on a daily basis.
But it also benefits other industries like we have a growing green energy industry, we have a very small but still it's supposed to grow train rail, some other fields which need flows of capital.
And this is, I think, the key when it comes to China, because it was not just the opening of a new market, but also a new flow of capital into the country.
And I think this is the most interesting aspect of doing trade with China for most Latin American countries.
It's not just that China is offering a huge market for our products.
It's also a commercial partner with a different business mentality.
So China is willing to invest in this country.
And I think Peru is by far the best example of it.
Because this port is to be engineered by China's capital.
It's unthinkable for a Latin American country to gather that amount of capital within our borders, and it changed the whole dynamic.
It's I think we will not recognize the region anymore in 10 years after the board open.
I happened to be in Peru lately after nine years, and everybody talks about the port because it changed everything, the whole dynamic of the city, the flow of population, roots, the times were reduced.
And I think that for Chile is any different.
So China is not just a factor in the denunciation of our markets, but it's strong for me and our whole economy.
You talk about the port, we will definitely delve more into that.
Before that, let's also hear the voice from Mexico.
Alex there, Mexico as the second largest economy in Latin America.
It has also seen rising cooperation with China in sectors such as infrastructure, auto making and green economy.
And over the past five years, approximately 1500 new Chinese companies have invested in Mexico and these investments are not limited to traditional sectors such as electronics, household applicants, or services.
They also extend to emerging areas such as batteries, electric vehicles, parts and automobile components.
So how are these trades and investment activities diversifying Mexico's economy and bringing changes to local communities?
It's a very good question.
And what we're talking about here is a buzzword in Mexico at the moment when it comes to the economy and trade and foreign direct investment.
And that buzzword is near shoring.
What do we mean by that?
We mean foreign companies coming into the Mexican market and establishing Mexican operations within the country, initially administrative, but often building towards manufacture.
Why? Because Mexico is a country which has a free trade opportunities.
Since 2020, we saw under the then president Trump, the renegotiation and ratification or the updated NAFTA, the North American free trade agreement, which today is called the United States, Mexico, Canada agreement, which should go down, goes down to a much clunkier acronym, the USMCA, but it's the updated
NAFTA. And what does that allow?
Well, that allows things which have been made in Mexico, whether or not they're made by a Mexican company or a foreign company to then get the benefit of that free trade status, lower tariffs and no tariffs in many cases.
And that is the trend of near shoring, which, as you mentioned, 1500 Chinese companies in Mexico.
And it's a trend which has seen tens of billions of dollars a year arrive as foreign direct investment into this country since the year 2020.
But it's not only the United States which offers opportunities.
Mexico itself is a very large market.
As you mentioned, it's the Latin America's second largest economy, 130 million people with because of all this increase in foreign direct investment is having an economic boom and therefore greater purchasing power for the general population.
So what are the goals of this near shoring?
Well, the goal is to achieve made in Mexico status.
So why are there 1500 Chinese companies over the past five years?
Because it's not only for cherry, these, you know, high sense, these enormous companies, it's companies from China who are coming into Mexico in order to manufacture parts for the Chinese manufacturer operations in order to attain made in Mexico status and therefore have free trade.
That's the key when it comes to ensuring.
And that's why it's been so easy.
Well, I wouldn't say easy.
That's why it's been so booming.
Edgar, if we look at China -Peru cooperation in emerging sectors during this year's meeting in June, like leaders from both China and Peru called for expanding cooperation in digital economy, artificial intelligence and green energy.
How do you assess the two countries progress so far in this field?
How can they complement each other and what's your vision for their cooperation?
Well, I think the cooperation is still in the early stages.
When you think about AI, we talk about technologies changing every day.
If you read the news, every day you will see there is a new tool, a new application and new development.
And that's something that eventually is going to lead into a new stage of AI.
When you think about AI as a new electricity.
Now for Peru, obviously, as you mentioned before, we think about the deployment of Internet as a prerequisite for these AI applications.
Meaning that still in Peru, we have a way to go to be able to expand the penetration of Internet services across the country.
Look at the costs of Peru.
Obviously, most of the cities are going to be well connected with penetrations in the 70, 80 percent, 90 percent.
But if you look at the populations in the highlands or in the jungle, obviously these rates are much, much lower.
So we still need work to do.
So this digitalization, it's a first stage, even before even thinking about AI, that's where China can help Peru support.
Obviously, the effort China has gone through in the last decades to be able to expand penetration to all cities, all regions in the country.
It's a good example for Peru to learn from.
And that's something that is going to be the first stage.
So AI is definitely one particular area, renewable energies, another area, electric vehicle as well.
Peru is also a big producer.
Eventually, it's going to be a big producer of lithium two, as well as our competitors in other countries like Bolivia and Chile, Argentina.
These are the huge producers of lithium Iran.
Peru also has some potential there and obviously, investors will be required to realize that potential.
Once we have that in place, too, that's going to be also a big investment because China needs lithium and also Peru can take advantage of the electric vehicle potential that China brings.
When you think about that potential to renew our economy, to make sure that our energy sources are going to be greener and greener.
So I think there is a lot of potential for both countries to continue this cooperation and obviously this particular event, it's going to be a great signpost for this progress.
Maria, around 60 % of Latin America's power actually comes from renewable resources, which is far higher than global average.
What do you think might be the factors contributing to the region's remarkable progress in renewable energy production?
I think they're two very obvious key.
First of all, is the affordability precisely because of these corporations with China.
China is a larger producer of solar panel and green energies in the whole world.
So we can afford it.
There is no country which would not like to make a green transition, especially in Latin America because our ecosystems are very damaged by the climate crisis.
So for doing this transition, the most important thing is that we can afford it.
And now due to this free trade agreement and the whole new race of exchange with a larger producer of cheap solar panels, we can afford it.
It's not just a case of Chile is the same in Argentina.
And India has grown enormously their capability when it comes to green energies.
And it's also cheaper for us in the long -term.
But as I said before, we like the capital.
So now that we have investment, most governments, regardless of their political positioning, they like to make this transition.
And Chile is a very good example.
We have this very, very, very big desert with an enormous solar capability.
And we could afford now to bring in all these solar panels.
And even more humble households in these regions, they can also afford to make this green transition.
It's not just for the big industries, but it's a product that you can actually find in the market that you can afford.
So this is the first key.
And secondly, Latin America, because of the whole dynamic of extractivism, has suffered not just from climate change, but our ecosystems are heavily damaged by this whole economic dynamic, which went on for several hundreds of years, because the colonization did not just took our resources out, but it
damaged our ecosystem.
So we need to be especially careful when it comes to economic growth.
We cannot wait at all costs because our economic resources come mostly from natural resources and steel.
We haven't fully done this transition towards industrialization or digitalization.
It's something that is starting to happen now, but we still rely on our natural resources.
Alas there, we know 5G has been available for the market for five years now, but less than 40 % of the Mexico has 5G coverage.
How are unstable internet connection hindering the development of the country?
Like how can collaborating with China and other Latin American countries and countries in the APEC member economies help to improve the situation in Mexico?
Well, if there's one thing that we can say today is that the cell phone is an essential thing to have today and how annoying is it when you go into an area where they have 3G and you find that modern cell phone and even basic things that you think sending something on WeChat or a message on WhatsApp
or a maps app, it doesn't work with 3G data.
That's a problem when it comes to development because of how important the cell phone is today.
And in Mexico, 25 % of the total cell phone coverage in this country is 3G or below.
You can go to places in Mexico where still 1G will come up beside the bars on your cell phone.
That's an issue because connectivity is important.
And today, 25 million Mexicans still have no regular access to the internet.
So these are development issues which are perhaps not as obvious as road infrastructure, but something which is having to become an increasing concern when it comes to development when it comes to technological upgrades and adoption.
There's one piece of Chinese technology actually at the moment, which is very, very interesting.
It's called low band 5G.
So in the same way that FM radio and AM long wave radio will have their different bandwidths, FM radio, when you listen to it, it's crystal clear when it comes through, when you're tuned in properly, but it doesn't go that far.
So think of that as a modern 5G network.
It's expensive to put up a 5G antenna.
It's an investment for the company to put it in, and it will cover an area of 50 square kilometers perhaps, but that's no good for rural areas.
So there's a new technology which is being developed specifically by Huawei in China called low band 5G in which it uses longer bandwidths which reach much further and compromise little on the data speeds.
It's going to be slower because it's a longer bandwidth, but it compromises to an acceptable amount on the data speeds and is bringing 5G technology across into these rural areas of Mexico.
And indeed, it's something which we're seeing we're going to see rolled out in 2026 specifically because companies in Mexico are building towards television broadcasts straight to your cell phone of the FIFA World Cup through low band 5G.
That's going to be an astonishing step forward when it comes to technological advancements.
And it's something which the the astonishing advances that China has made in these in these areas, which is bringing to bringing these benefits to rural regions of the global south still, and particularly in Latin America, where you can tell you Chile, Peru and Mexico, three very mountainous countries,
and where this kind of technology is going to be really, really important.
But one another issue here is that when it comes to 5G, it's the governments and the regulators who assign bandwidths to coverage companies, people companies who are trying to set up these systems and the bandwidths, you know, we will assign to you who wants to buy 2400 megahertz for 20 years and that will be
your bandwidth. These allocations are still slow and that's still down to the regulators.
So the government, administrations and regulators still have their part to play in this whole process.
But it's one which needs to speed up because development when it comes to this is very, very important.
This is ChatLounge.
Let's take a short break.
Coming up, we will look at how can APEC member economies integrate their development with Belt and Road Initiative to build an open Asia Pacific?
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Welcome back. Let's continue our discussion.
Edgar, let's talk about the Belt and Road Initiative.
In Latin American countries, for Peru, it joined the BRI in 2019.
And since then, we have seen many projects have been constructed in Peru, including the Machu Picchu highway tunnel, as we previously mentioned, as well as the Chagla hydroelectric power plant.
Have you been to these projects in Peru?
Well, I was in Machu Picchu many years ago, but not yet with the deployment of these new projects.
How do people, local people, think of this construction, this project built by Chinese companies under the BRI framework?
What changes have these projects brought to local communities?
Well, there is a massive improvement in terms of the time that you need to access these attractions, for example.
And let's talk specifically about Machu Picchu, because that's the place I went to also before this project.
When you think about accessing this attraction, you think about different ways to get there.
Obviously, the closest city is Cuzco, the capital of the Incas.
Once you're in Cuzco, you have to take a train.
And once you take the train, you go to a place that is still far away from the attraction.
Do you still have to take a bus?
So if you count all this time, it's going to be around five hours just to get from the city of Cuzco to this attraction.
Five hours is a long time.
When you think about these new developments, of course, there's going to be a new road and part of that road definitely is constructed by a Chinese company.
The improvement in the access time is going to be fantastic because now you will get there in two hours or less.
So obviously, when you think about this, obviously that creates opportunities for the people in the area, for the tourists, and for the opportunities that can be created thanks to these deployments.
So it's definitely a big improvement.
That goal, of course, is to advertise Machu Picchu as a big attraction in Latin America for the world and to improve the number of visitors to the area from the current, let's say, one million people that come annually to much, much bigger levels.
Because once you have the important piece of infrastructure, you can definitely secure the access of these tools in a reasonable time.
Another iconic or I would say landmark project of VRI in Peru is the Chiang Kai port.
This is constructed also by a Chinese firm and will be ready for inauguration this month during Apex Summit.
So people say that it is expected to become an important transport hub and logistics center for the South Pacific Coast and also a major shipping hub for South America and Asia.
In your view, how will the port light up the economy for Peru and for its future development?
Well, I think it would be easy to understate the importance of this project for Peru and the region.
There is a motto there from Chiang Kai to Shanghai.
And basically that means that when you think about exporting goods from Latin America in the past, as was mentioned before, it was very challenging because you need to spend like maybe 40 days for goods to go from this place from Latin America to China and other Asian markets.
Now, with the availability of this new port, Chiang Kai port, which as you mentioned, is going to be inaugurated this month.
It's going to be definitely impressive because now goods will actually take only 20 to 25 days.
The biggest ships in the world that actually can contain, let's say, 24 ,000 containers will now be able to dock in this port.
And that's something that no other ports in the region can achieve.
That's going to be a big help for companies in Peru and also in our neighboring countries like Chile, Bolivia, Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Colombia, because they will also want to be competitive.
If you're trying to export your products to, let's say, any market in Asia, if you have, let's say, avocados, you don't want your avocados to be 40 days on the road because, as you know, these current roads will need to include stops in America or in Mexico.
That's not ideal. The time that the ship is going to be in sea, it's expensive because you have to pay obviously fuel, people import it in that and that takes time.
So obviously, when you think about being competitive in Asian markets, you want to make sure that your pro is going to be arriving there faster.
And that's the advantage of this port, which costs 20 days will give you a competitive advantage.
So if you're able to bring your pros, let's say, to Chiang Kai first and then from there in 20 days, you have your goods already in Shanghai, that is a great advantage.
And I think that's going to create a C6 big change in how the economic structure is going to be working for Latin America.
Since you're an expert in artificial intelligence, how much of this port are also using the new technologies such as AI and 5G and of other automations?
We talk about the advent of electricity.
And we know that all industries today are impacted by electricity.
Perhaps 200 years ago, people thought that it's going to be only impacting certain areas.
In the same way today, any industry will have clear impact from AI is the next industrial revolution.
And we will see this impact in any industry.
So obviously, when you think about developing a pro of this achieved scale, because it's a new development, we start with an idea that we have to be the most efficient operation in the world.
And that's what is able to be achieved by implementing technologies like AI and 5G.
You're basically eating a pro that will have pretty much no people running next to the infrastructure in this pro.
So everything is going to be automated.
And that's a great advantage because obviously this port is going to be operating 24 seven, meaning that the ships coming to the port will be able to depart very quickly and instead relying on only certain shifts from eight hours, certain days.
So obviously, that's going to be a great advantage.
And you are able to do so because it's a new infrastructure.
China is definitely providing this competitive advantage for this port to be much more efficient than any other port in the region.
Maria, how do you think of from Chile's perspective, how do you think of the upcoming Chiang Kai port in Peru?
Well, I think it's out of question that it will transform the whole region because the sooner we get our products out and the shorter the time they are being transported, the cheaper and the more efficient, the more our markets are going to grow.
I think that there is no difference on the strategic interest in this case when it comes to Peru until because our economies are very similar.
We support mostly agricultural products.
In the past, Peru was already this hotspot of exchange.
I'm talking about the pre -modern times.
So it's actually in a sense to come back to the dynamics we had before modernity because modernity made this whole transformation oriented towards the West.
This is something we have in common to put more the cultural background.
Chile, Peru and China, they have premodern civilizations.
So we have an historical dynamic that was broken by the process of modernity oriented towards the Atlantic and towards Western powers.
So it's very interesting because it's modernization in the sense of how the world is transforming nowadays.
Our economy is being oriented towards the Pacific with China at the center.
But at the same time, it has this mirror in with our past.
So I think the Chiang Kai port, it's the most revolutionary thing that will happen to our economies.
And I have the possibility to feel how the people feel about it because I hadn't been in Latin America for 10 years.
And I went this year.
I made a stop in all these places we are discussing Machu Picchu and Lima and the whole population is exciting and kind of imagining how everything is going to be.
And I think it's unthinkable now.
They grow. It's going to be so exponentially and so dramatically that it's hard to imagine at this time, but it will benefit enormously the whole region.
Alasdair, what's your view on it?
How do you think the Chiang Kai port will reshape trade and logistics for Latin American countries and enhance trade for Asia Pacific member economies?
A new megaport in Peru that's a doorway directly into the South American continent.
It's going to have enormous benefits, not only, as your guest mentioned, when it comes to the smart port aspect of it being being being able to turn around 24000 container mega freighters using artificial intelligence.
The speed at which it's going to happen is going to be astonishing.
So it's going to be much more efficient.
And from Peru, you go directly south into Chile, you go directly north into Ecuador and Colombia and then up to Venezuela and then from Venezuela and Colombia.
You're up into you're already into the Atlantic side and then you can go directly east straight into Bolivia and Brazil.
And that's going to mean trade coming in both directions.
It's going to be, you know, it's going to be an absolutely enormous boost.
This piece of infrastructure when we consider that Mexico's largest port, Manzanillo, can't handle mega freighters like this.
And a container coming off from the time a container arrives in port to the point to the point at which it can be put on a trailer and you've cleared customs.
You're into the country.
That can be as much as 10 days in Mexico, which slows down your supply chain, slows down your logistics and ultimately hurts business.
So a lovely big new megaport, fantastic piece of infrastructure.
It's going to change trade when it comes to cross -specific into the South American continent as a whole.
Well, we've been talking about the cooperation, the benefits that the Chiang Kai port will bring to Latin American countries.
But we know during the construction period that United States has been trying to, you know, hinder or trying to undermine the construction of this port.
So do you think after the port put into operation, the U .S.
is also a member of the APEC member economies will also benefit from this port?
Sure. Well, there's two points to consider here.
Has the United States attempted to slow it down?
It's about to be inaugurated.
So problem solved. The port's there.
It's ready for operations.
And the second point is that when it comes to South America, the United States is still closer.
And freighters from the Pacific port, they may make the entire Pacific crossing.
Some may do that. But a lot of others are going to be making their way up the coast of South America, Central America, North America, before making that shorter crossing across to the Korean Peninsula, for example.
So U .S. trade is going to benefit from that because at every stop, trade containers come on and off.
So of course, the United States will benefit from it.
It's more efficient infrastructure.
They're closer. They're part of the logistical supply chain.
Therefore, they will benefit.
Edgar, as collaboration grows between China and Latin American countries, some U .S.
officials and mainstream media in the West have criticized this kind of partnership.
They're using terms like Marshall Plan to describe the relationship, the trade relationship between China and Latin American countries or China's investment in Latin America.
What's your take on this kind of rhetoric?
How do you view China's trade relationship with Peru and other Latin American countries?
Well, I think if you look at Latin American countries, we have to make sure that we're going to be able to use any of our advantages.
Where are small countries?
Peru only has 33, 34 million people compared to other geographies with hundreds of millions of people.
So if you have any slight advantage that can attract attention, interest from other countries, why not?
Let me give you an example.
Right now, all countries are trying to fight for a place for the next World Cup in two years.
Bolivia is one of them.
And Bolivia has been only to the World Cup on a few limited occasions.
So when people come to play in Bolivia, usually Bolivia's team was defeated.
What did they do? They decided to change the location of the matches, from low laying areas to the highest cities in Bolivia.
Now the matches are playing in El Alto, the highest city in Bolivia.
So if you're going to go, you're Argentina, you're Brazil, you want to play against Bolivia and you go to this cities, you're running out of air.
There is only 50 percent of the oxygen at those levels.
So you cannot be as efficient as you are in other areas.
That's a smart attitude that we need to adopt.
Peru has Chancay. Chancay is a very advantageous position.
It's a very deep ocean area.
So that means bigger freight can be able to dock there.
So if you have that asset, why not put it out there for the world to take advantage of?
Whether we have Chinese investors, we have American investors.
Why not? I think Peru has to use this asset to be able to improve its economy.
And I think that's something that Peru has to decide on its own.
So obviously there are going to be agreements and negotiations with many of these economies.
But at the end of the day, Peru has to look for this interest because we have millions of people in Peru who still don't have access to technology, who still have suffering from hunger and starvation.
So that's something that we need to fix.
And if we have these assets there for the world to take advantage of, why not?
Maria, how do you view Edgar's remarks and how do you see China's increasing presence in Latin America?
I think it's a natural shift and it's unstoppable.
This is happening at the time of an increasing confrontation between superpowers.
So it's a moment in history where certain change, a reordering of global governance and how the institution of global governance are being administered because they are just not answering the needs of most of the population, for instance, a pick or instance like BRIC, they represent most of the population,
but they have no institutional representation in the world order now.
So a major shift needs to happen.
I think most countries want to do this in a Pacific way, oriented towards free trade and what it has been actually promoted by the superpowers for the last 20 years when it was benefiting them, when it's benefiting the global south, of course, it's been questioned.
So this change needs to happen.
There is no questioning on that.
Latin America, as other places of the so -called periphery, a very good example of the confrontation of these interests.
From one side, China offers business opportunities in best in infrastructure and so on and so forth.
And from the other one, the US are trying to exercise pressure for these things not to happen, but with a larger opposition of all political sectors.
I think Chile is a good example of that.
Brazil is a good example of that.
And Argentina, with this reorientation against our China, all political sectors understand that we must trade with China.
It's our largest business partners for most Latin American and Caribbean countries.
It's benefiting the economy.
It's benefiting the population.
So there's no option for us not to do trade with China, but the US are used to have Latin America as its so -called backyard and they can at the same time not offering the same business opportunities because the economy, its contract and the market is not so big as the Chinese one.
So they are trying to exercise political pressure.
And we see this confrontation in our continent.
We see how every time in Chile a project is announced in terms of cooperation with China, how the US embassy complains and they call to the politicians and they try to shift it.
We see the pressure in Latin America not to accept the 5G from China.
We saw Bolsonaro as a good example of that.
We saw how the US tried to exercise pressure on Argentina to get out of the bricks, but actually the Argentine economy could not hold it.
So they again reoriented towards China.
So it's a change that it's unstoppable.
It's a reality that they must accept China.
It's already our most important business trade partner.
It's a shift that benefits the population because we're not just getting a market, as I said before, but also investment and it's still something that maybe will not happen so smoothly because we are in this major confrontation with the US trying to exercise permanently this pressure.
So we will see, but in opposition to the past, now we have some instances of criticism of this current world order that we didn't have before with the best case of these being bricks.
So there is more space for the Global South to make decisions on their own, which we didn't have before, before we didn't have any choices.
So this is the first time that we're being able to make our own choices.
And I think it's a moment of hope for the Global South because we're seeing this transformation.
This transformation is benefiting us.
And the more we get reassured that this is the right path.
Alastair, do you have anything to add to what Maria and Edgar said?
Well, I think certainly speaking from the Mexican perspective, Mexicans are very, very keen for increasing trade flows with China, particularly across the Pacific.
You know, 89 % of all of Mexico's exports go directly to the United States and 78 % of Mexico's imports come from the United States.
So having that large neighbour is such an important trade partner in many ways exposes, it's good in some ways, but it's also an exposure to putting all your eggs in one basket.
And Mexicans are certainly, when it comes to industrial, industrialists and people who are in the import export market, are always looking for diversification of markets.
Mexico may have free trade with the United States and Canada, but it also holds free trade agreements with 12 other countries, including the European Union, it's part of the Pacific Alliance with Colombia, Chile and Peru.
And numerous free trade agreements across Central America with El Salvador, with Honduras, with Guatemala.
So market diversification is a real, some is a real issue for Mexicans.
And I think they see trade with China as something which is the the Camino Correcto, the correct path.
One last question for all of you, as Maria has just mentioned, the Great Power competition under this context, there are increasing trade agreements in the Asia Pacific region.
Chinese leader President Xi once said that China is willing to fully implement the RSAP, the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, and is looking to join the CPTPP, the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans -Pacific Partnership, as well as the DEPA, the Digital Economy Partnership Agreement,
to support regional development.
So how do you look at the relationship between APAC and these free trade agreements?
Maybe Edgar, we can start with you first.
Well, absolutely. I think in terms of development, we see an example in China.
It's an economy that has grown from very humble beginnings, but over the last decade has transformed itself.
So when you look at our Latin American countries, we're probably going to go through a similar transition.
And that's where we need some help from China.
China already has developed and managed to enhance, I mean, the quality of life of its population.
And that's what we also need in Latin America.
And we have hundreds of millions of people who are also having these problems at the beginning.
So in that regard, APAC is just a starting point.
When you think of all these different frameworks, obviously China can provide a lot of support.
And we think that that's going to be beneficial for world parties, because China at some point also we need some markets and these markets are growing in Latin America.
If you look population wise, our countries are still growing in terms of population.
That's something that China can also look at.
And I think at the end of the day, we'll have a win -win situation in both areas.
Maria, how do you look at the relationship between APAC and these free trade agreements?
So the thing is that APAC for a couple of decades will represent the ideas of globalization and free trade because the commercial balance was in favor of Western powers.
So nothing has changed for the majority of the population because we still want to make this transition towards more free trade commerce agreement, more globalization, because we need to grow economically.
We need to expand our markets.
The only thing that changed is that the commercial balance is not all in favor of Western powers.
So they are not promoting this anymore.
We see this with the technology sanctions the US impose on China, the political sanctions they impose on Russia.
So they are the ones who try to stop the process of globalization.
But most populations are still for it.
We are not talking about a new world order.
We are talking about a re -accommodation.
This is what China has always said.
This is what President Xi said also.
We want some restructuring because we still want what the Western powers said and proposed at the first place.
So APEC is not just this homogenic block because they are different, interested within the APEC.
So most countries from the global south and China included.
We want to continue with this agenda, which was the goal of APEC since the very beginning.
And the Western power are questioning this as long as it's not benefiting them anymore or they believe it's not benefiting them, because this is a political question, not economic question.
Economically wise, it could benefit them, but they decide to put the politics up front and especially these contention plans against the Pacific.
So it's not an homogenic block.
They are different, interesting, which sometimes collide.
But fortunately, most of the global south countries, they agree that this is the right path.
And we can proceed with what's proposed at the beginning.
How about you Estella?
So since the very early days of APEC in the early 90s, one of the goals of this annual summit has been the achievement of free trade around the Pacific.
And if you look at the best example we have today, is one of the ones you mentioned is the CPTPP, which includes 11 countries, including Chile, Peru, Mexico, the three countries we're talking about here and including Canada, Australia, New Zealand.
And China has been a major proponent of free trade in the region.
The one sticking out issue is the United States, which is not on board and is not interested in talking about it.
And as I simply said, no, it's not going to happen.
We are not going to be on board with it.
So what's the solution?
If Washington is saying free trade in the Pacific, we're OK.
Well, the solution is to continue building this free trade block, but through individual smaller free trade agreements.
So if you have NAFTA, but then Mexico has a free trade agreement through the Pacific Alliance with Peru and Chile.
So that allows you to link two regions which have free trade areas already through strategic countries.
So if you can have Australia and New Zealand, I then linked free trade with Southeast Asia and Southeast Asia, then links with China, Japan, the Korean Peninsula across to Canada, and then the United States as a standalone, not interested, but then you come down to Mexico, the United States becomes
the odd one out. And it's going to feel more pressure because it's going to be losing out when it comes to these economic considerations of import and export.
And especially for a country like the United States, which sends so much of its manufacture abroad in the first place.
So this dream of free trade through the Pacific, which has been apex goal since the very start, is achievable.
But it's one which is going to be built piecemeal through the region.
And it's for that reason that these summits, where these countries get together and talk specifically about trade and commerce are so key in building that chain of supply.
With that we're wrapping up this special edition of Chat Lounge.
Many thanks to our panelists, Atga Parets, American Promovian business author and keynote speaker on artificial intelligence and new technologies.
Maria Sanhuazi, journalist from Chile, and Alastair Bevastok, CGTN correspondent in Mexico.
I'm Shri Awen in Beijing.
Thank you so much for listening.
Bye for now.
