You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day.
I'm your host, Elise Hugh.
Today's talk is part of our new 2025 TED Fellows Films adapted for podcasts, just for our TED Talks daily listeners.
This is part of a special series of episodes we release throughout the year, showcasing the incredible stories behind the TED Fellows program, which supports a network of global innovators.
Today, we'd like you to meet chef and culinary innovator, Duivel Malanga.
Malanga has traveled to nearly every country in Africa, tasting flavors straight from farms and local kitchens, to learn about the traditions that transform a dish.
Today he runs a culinary center in Rwanda, where he works to train the next generation of top chefs from across the continent, collaboratively crafting food that shares each country's culinary secrets with the world.
He shares the importance of honoring where you're from, while also embracing the diversity and joy of the world's many flavors.
After we hear from Malonga, stick around for his conversation with TED Fellows Program Director, Lily James Olds.
The good thing with food, like food bring people together, food on the border.
I believe the new generation really are pushing now to promote the amazing food heritage we have in the continent.
My name is Jovay Malonga and I'm a chef.
I've worked in many restaurants from Paris, from Germany, U.S., Japan, Thailand.
My experience in a fine dining restaurant around the world was amazing.
I've learned amazing techniques.
I've met amazing people.
I realized myself that I wanted to know more about Pan-African cuisine.
And I took the initiative to go back to the continent.
I wanted to learn.
I wanted to go back to school, to the grandmother's school.
I took two years just traveling in Africa.
I've learned about food, about culture, and also about the continent, the history.
And I got to learn by grandmother about Africans' cuisine.
First, it's not just African cuisine.
It's countries. cuisine.
Africa is a continent with 54 countries.
I've visited more than 48 countries.
I started in Cameroon.
That was amazing.
I was like a baby learning new things.
The first things I've learned was the national dish.
Call it ndole.
They call it like a recipe for a king.
If someone cooks ndole for you, it looks like the person loves you.
Because Ndoli takes a lot of time.
It's, let's say, seven or six hours.
And it's a lot of ingredients.
I went to the village.
We did it together with grandmother for my friends.
And we spent all day.
But the taste was amazing.
It's difficult to say how many recipes I've learned, but I've learned many recipes, a lot.
In Nigeria, we have more than 200 tribes, and every tribe has a different dish.
So I can describe we have more than a million and billion recipes in the continent.
In Senegal, yassa is a stew, but the main product they use are onions.
In Rwanda, green banana.
They call it kisafria.
Sometimes they mix with chicken or like, it's like a stew.
In Congo, jersey.
Fumbua is made by us, so it's the leaves that find it more in the forest.
Spice is very important for me.
Spice is life.
Pangea pepper is one of the best pepper for me in the world.
The Pangea have something sweetness, and so it's close to lemongrass.
You must taste it really to understand.
Penja pepper grows only in the Penja region.
I like to go to visit the harvest of Penja pepper, because most of the time the people are singing and it's the same time of mango, when mango arrives.
And personally, when I'm there, I like to go to help the people in the farm, and I also eat the mango.
In different countries in Africa, people celebrate food.
People don't eat, but we celebrate food.
It's part of our life.
When you taste the dish, firstly, you know people who are growing the product.
You know the story behind.
I think it's very different.
For me, it was like I was tasting, but it was also experience.
When I was in Germany, I was working in one of the best restaurants in the world.
I didn't get a connection with the product, because you can have a carrot, but it comes from the market.
You don't know...
The story behind.
That was the big difference.
My first time that I tasted the carrot when I was in Cameroon, I was different.
Number one, like, it was sweet and flavorful.
And the texture was very different.
And it was very small carrot.
It was not like the big carrot that we usually use in Europe.
And I was very surprised.
I was connected with the product, with the people, and with the region.
After traveling, my ambition was like I want to share what I've learned in different countries in one place.
Culinary Innovation Village is a food campus that we have created with my team.
We have a training center.
We train the next generation after, let's say, the big chef of tomorrow.
The students come from different countries in Africa.
From now, we have seven nationalities. and they bring another new dish.
They bring Sadama another new way of farming.
It's a huge exchange between me and the students.
When I travel, I bring many seeds from different countries.
We have more than 100 varieties of fruit and vegetables.
We teach our students how to farm.
And also we have a restaurant, Meza Malunga, there we do most of the time food experience.
The ambition is to promote the African ingredients and spices.
I focus more on the story of people and the product.
For me, food is sharing and education.
My vision in the future is to have many places like this in many regions in Africa.
Many things are happening globally.
People are traveling now for food.
And African cuisine is playing a big role.
We want really in the future that people People can talk about African food like they talk about Italian food, and people can talk about Nigerian food and let's see Congolese, Rwandese and South African food like also people talk about American food.
And now a special conversation between Malanga and TED Fellows Program Director Lily James Olds.
They discuss his early culinary days in Europe, what led him back home and why the most important kitchen, for him at least, will always be grandma's.
That's coming up right after a short break.
Welcome, Malanga.
I'm so happy that you're here with us today.
Meet, I'm happy to be with you.
I would love to take it back to the beginning of your journey with food.
And I'm wondering if you could tell me about where you grew up and some of your earliest memories of food.
So I was born in Congo-Brazzaville.
I was born in one very small village in Linzolo.
It's, let's say, one hour from the capital of Congo, Brazzaville.
So I grew up in the family.
I can say like foodie family and farming.
My grandmother owned a restaurant.
The restaurant was very famous, but she was doing only one dish, focusing on cassava leaves and cassava broth.
What was the name of that dish?
In my language, they call it sakasaka.
So it's the cassava leaves.
You have it in many African countries, like in Cameroon, in Gabon and in Rwanda.
They call it isombe.
You have the same in Madagascar, you have the same in Tanzania.
But each country, they have their own recipe.
So the Congolese recipe is very different to Rwandan recipe or the one from Gabon.
And so did you grow up farming?
Because you said that your grandmother had a restaurant, right?
Yeah.
Basically, you know, when we talk about family, African family is more than 20, let's say more than 100 people in the same villages.
So like a family member, most of them was farming.
And my grandmother owned the restaurant when I was 11, 12.
I moved to Germany, started my school journey there.
So the food culture was different.
I think that challenge, the food challenge inspired me really to, To start to do small food at home.
I think my food story starts from there.
That's amazing.
And so what were your first experiences cooking?
And when did you know that you wanted to be a chef?
I think the first experience, let's say, that I decided I would be a chef.
When I came to Germany.
When a young parent really pushes you to go to school, to be a doctor, to be a pilot, to be a president, they don't push you to be a chef.
But when I came to Germany, the German food scene was shocking for me.
I grew up with a tasty and some pan-African product and came to Germany.
It was like potatoes and all of this meat culture was something shock for me.
It was a challenge, but the challenge really inspired me to start in young age to do my food myself, like cooking for myself.
Yeah, the whole town to what the person I am today.
And how old were you when you started, you know, messing around in the kitchen and with food?
Yes, I was 14, 15.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
And...
I'm curious.
So you've worked in some of the world's top restaurants, I mean, in Paris, Germany, Japan.
I'd love to hear about a little more of what inspired you to take some time away from that world of high-end dining and to spend those two years there.
Traveling across 48 countries in Africa, which is incredible.
I mean, first of all, I can only imagine how much amazing food you ate during that time.
But we'd just love to hear about how you what kind of inspired that that change for you.
I studied in the World International School in Germany.
When I was young, my ambition was like to go back on the continent.
But before to go back on the continent in Africa, I wanted to understand more about global food scene.
And so I was working in the very high-end restaurant and get a lot of connection.
I knew some Pan-African cuisines and I wanted to understand more.
That's why I was traveling and learn from other people and learn new technique, learn new recipe, learn new ingredients and get the new taste for different countries in the world.
That was amazing experience.
Still today.
I will continue to travel so that I can learn from what the technique and I can bring back the technique in there.
Like I can bring the technique from other countries in Africa.
Yeah.
Can you share a little bit more?
I mean, you talked about this before, but just what were some of those techniques and tools that you learned during your time, during those two years traveling around the continent, you know, and how do they inform your practice and your cooking today?
So I've learned many techniques.
I think the first one It's the product, the farming technique.
That's very important.
I have learned more from the farm to the table.
I've learned about fermentation, conservation, and also the taste.
All techniques I've learned from the different villages now in the continent in Africa helped me to create and also to innovate the restaurants.
And why is fermentation specifically so important?
So me.
I live in a little village and I grew up in a village and now I'm living in a small village.
Many villages in Africa.
They don't have electricity, so they conserve product and also the fermented product.
During fermentation, the product gives an amazing taste.
And that sort of taste is very dependent on the product that you're going to ferment it or going to conserve.
Yeah, I mean, I was lucky enough to get to visit Culinary Innovation Village and got to eat some of these delights.
And it really was just such an incredible experience.
I would say for every part of the senses right of exactly what you're describing.
Yeah.
You know, I guess connected to that you've said that in many African communities people don't just eat, they celebrate food.
And I'd love to hear a little bit more, what do some of those different celebrations look like?
And how would you describe that as different?
You know the way that food is valued, perhaps in some of those celebrations than in other kitchens or other places that you've spent time.
Most of the places I was traveling in Africa is like When do people wake up in the morning?
They go to work.
Like people don't talk about breakfast or lunch.
And the time people come together for sharing and celebrating food for me was like it was a celebration time.
Like people are coming back from the work, they're coming back for the farming, they're coming back from wherever, and they sit down together and share the food.
It's a time you have story, it's a time like listen the challenge for some people and share water, share food, share drink.
And that to me was like a celebration.
I love that.
I love the daily celebration with food.
That feels so good.
So for people listening who may have never tried a dish from Cameroon Nigeria, Rwanda or beyond, where should they begin?
And also, I guess, for the aspiring home chefs what recipes would you recommend that they seek out and try to make at home?
I would say just, my friend, follow, listen to your heart.
Personally, I don't have a favorite food.
I don't have a favorite ingredients.
I don't have a favorite spices.
So depend how do you feel.
Like every day I discover something new.
And like today I've discovered something I never tasted in my life.
And I say this is the best thing to eat every day.
And I know that tomorrow I'll discover other things.
I know.
It really depends how you feel.
So you're being diplomatic is what you're saying.
You're not picking favorites.
Exactly.
I recommend people to visit the continent.
At least the five regions from North, South, East, West, and also Central Africa.
I recommend you eat to do Ndole.
Ndole is one of the national dish from Cameroon.
It's amazing.
It's very rich.
And Ndole is made by leaves, like bitter spinach.
And you can mix it with shrimps, sometimes with beef.
Me, I like to eat it.
I can eat it every day.
That sounds great.
I just want to go back to, because I think it's a really kind of powerful example of expanding one's learning when you talk about the grandmother school.
Why is this kind of cross-generational learning so important to you?
When I was traveling, I would start to visit the city like the big city.
I realized myself in big city.
Like hotel, they don't serve the pan-African cuisines.
Most of the time when you go to hotel, they serve you like just international food.
And I was disappointed.
One of grandmother had advised me to go to the village.
If you want to eat the authentic African cuisine, go to the village.
If you learn like modern cuisine, for me it's like I can do nothing because it's already modern and I don't have connections with that food.
But I have more connection when I go to the village and learn by grandmother.
For me, the best school is the grandmother school.
I think that was one of the best schools I've been in my life.
You learn many techniques, you learn how the food tastes and also learn the story behind the food.
And so that's why I teach to our students.
The young people who teach really invite grandmother sometimes to come to teach them.
Because personally, it's very important to understand more about the product and environment.
And this, we learn it by grandmother.
And I want to describe for people, for a second Malanga, what it's like to come visit the Culinary Innovation Village, which is also where Meza Malanga, your amazing restaurant, is now based.
So from Kigali, it's a long three, four-hour driving winding road, which is gorgeous.
And then you have to take a boat to get to a peninsula.
Exactly.
How did you decide that that was where you wanted your space to be?
So when I was living in Europe, I get a lot of opportunity and a lot of big groups.
Let's say a big company wanted to work with me.
And I deny all of this offer to come to Rwanda.
And all my friends, all my family say, are you mad?
Why are you going to Rwanda?
It's a small country.
I say, I know what I want.
And I came to Rwanda, I opened my project in Kigali.
All people say, okay, good, we understand why you wanted to go to Kigali.
And when I tell them okay, now I'm leaving Kigali, I'm going to this small village, all people are mad.
They say, are you mad?
Even the government in Rwanda say, are you sure what you're going to do?
So the reason why I would come to visit Kulin Innovation Village is, like you know, today people are traveling for food.
Personally, I wanted to create an environment that I can share with people.
I wanted to create a space that people can come and learn.
Like, I'm going to eat, but so I can learn about Africa.
The ambition is to promote the product that you find in Africa, to create a pan-African space focusing on sharing and education.
So at Kulina Innovation Village, We have a fermentation house.
People can come and learn about fermentation.
You can come and learn about spices and so the story beyond.
I love that.
And why do you think this vision is so important for the future of the continent?
I think food connected to the ecosystem.
And now our ecosystem is dying.
And I think all people know that what's happening with the climate change and everything else.
And so the ambition to not be dependent on other people and other countries for food.
And so the ambition is to train people on using local product.
Because as a chef, I have responsibility.
We have a concept that we don't have a menu.
Just, we wait what the earth gives us and we take what the earth gives us.
We give a little, let's say, some magic like this, the transformation that we do and to share with our guests.
Yeah.
The food of tomorrow is not African, is not American, is not French.
The food of tomorrow is the food that people who use product that have in the corner.
We have created a program called Chef's Exchange.
We are welcoming chefs from Colombian, from Ethiopia, from Uganda, from New York and from different places.
They came to visit us to understand more how we do, how we farm, how we create, how we innovate.
It's a space to share the philosophy and how we think about the food of today and tomorrow.
And so I think that's the impact, the global impact that we're creating is another way to farm, is another way to cook for the better Africa for tomorrow, for the better world for tomorrow.
I love that.
You know, I think connected to how you do things different at Culinary Innovation Village.
I also was really excited to see how many women chefs you had as part of the group that you were training.
Obviously there's such a big gender divide and that title of chef is often put on.
Men and women are often left as the home cooks.
How do you think about teaching and training in that way, both men and women together?
Yeah.
I grew up, like, most of the time, only women was cooking.
Like, it was chefs.
And when I went to Germany, when I started my culinary journey at school, it was more men than women.
And I was surprised.
I was asking my question, why?
The world is changing now.
Today, you have more female chefs that are getting stars.
So, like, things are changing.
We learn from human.
We learn from family.
That is our first skill set to get it to the grandmother.
Maybe another country, maybe somewhat different, but we really welcome all people who want to learn and so to inspire people in the future.
Right.
Okay.
One more question from me, which is kind of my, the nerdy thing since I love to cook so much myself.
So obviously, when I came to your space, I was lucky enough to witness your incredible collection of cookbooks from different chefs, many from the continent.
And I know that you are currently working on your own cookbook.
What are two cookbooks that you'd recommend that highlight food from the continent?
So when I was traveling different countries in Africa, like I was asking about cookbook okay ah mom, I know how to cook, but do you have a cookbook?
And most of the response I get is, like I realized like in many countries in Africa Many people don't have like a cookbook, like family recipe that really people share it, like from mama to the daughter and from daughter to the kids, like go by, grandmother.
It's like a tree.
Right.
You know, I remember again.
I went to the village and told me OK, if you want to eat the best peanut sauce, you must go to this family.
If you want to eat the best yum soup, you must go to this family that this family have the best recipe.
Right, right.
That's exactly the story I'm writing in my book.
That's kind of story that I'm learning.
But, you know, cooking don't have border.
And that's why I recommend people to be open and to move all of this cliche that people have for Pan-African cuisine.
We are getting a lot of food tourists.
And so now, when you see worldwide, many African chefs are getting awards by using pan-African ingredients.
And people are really curious to understand more what's happening in foods in Africa.
And we're open for that.
We are very happy to welcome all the people open for the good food in Africa.
And so it sounds like we should wait until your cookbook comes out, and then we'll get all the five in one the stories and all the recipes.
So the first book will come, will be more like a simple, but another one will come that I'm working on.
Oh my gosh.
I cannot wait.
Okay.
Well, thank you so much for this conversation, Malanga.
It was.
As I've told you many times, it was such a treat to get to visit your gorgeous incredible, inspiring space.
And thank you for this conversation today.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
That was Deweyvel Malanga, a 2025 TED Fellow.
To learn more about the TED Fellows program and watch all the TED Fellows films, we invite you to go to fellowstedcom.
And produced by Ian Lowe.
Video production manager is Searing Dolma.
Additional support from Lily James Olds, Leonie Horster and Allegra Pearl.
TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective.
Our team includes Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little and Tansika Sangmarnivong.
Additional support from Emma Tobner and Daniela Balarezo.
I'm Elise Hu.
I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed.
Thanks for listening.
