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I'm your only. Have you ever wished for a peaceful place to think or unwind after midnight?
In Shanghai and many places in China, that wish is becoming a reality.
The city is pioneering a new concept, parks that never sleeps.
This bot move raises several questions, who uses a park at 3am, what does it take to keep these green spaces safe and clean all night long?
Join us as we unravel the layers of Shanghai's 24-hour parks.
For today's show, I'm joined by Li Yi in the studio and Steve Hathorly on the line.
Now grab your virtual compass and follow us to the heart of the discussion.
Throughout history, cities have evolved to meet the needs of their residents.
And today, Shanghai is leading a new trend.
Parks open 24 hours a day.
From Central Park in Pudong to the swirling greenery of Ming Hongkultru Parks, Shanghai is redefining access to green spaces.
How does this shift fit into the larger picture of urban development?
But it means for the people of Shanghai to answer all these questions.
Let's take a look at the scale of the 24-hour parks in Shanghai.
Yeah, actually by the end of 2023, over 70% of Shanghai's 832 urban parks were opened 24 hours a day.
And 30 more parks will actually be added to the list, including the Ming Hongkultru Park, you just mentioned, which is also the largest urban park in the outlying district.
Even from April, that park has been opened 24-7 to accommodate night renters in other night owls.
And according to a news report, the Ecology and Environment Bureau of Shanghai's Pudong New Area also announced on April 15 that all parks in the district will be opened 24-7.
The district has 82 urban parks, 49 pocket parks in 21 rural parks in one countryside park.
With the exception of four parks, all others have been already accessible to the public for 24 hours since December 1, 2023.
So basically we're talking about Shanghai is trying to promote this idea to transform a city within parks instead of parks within a city.
So basically a very clever move in my opinion.
That's a great slogan. I have to admit, but for me, having parks in a city is good enough.
Nevertheless, I was wondering for Steve, have you ever visited a park during midnight?
Or do you have that need personally?
Not really. I mean, I'm not a 2am exercise guy, so I've never really thought to go to a park after midnight.
But, you know, I live here in Busan in Korea at the moment.
And it's an interesting topic because the parks here in Busan, I'm not sure about 100% of them, but many of them are open 24 hours a day.
And they're accessible to the public for use, for exercise, for going for a walk at that time of night.
I live actually near a place called Unchun-chun, which means Unchun Stream.
And it's kind of like a half-sized river.
And on both sides are walking paths and bicycle paths as well.
And it works because it's an open area that safe people can go there at any time of day and incorporate it into their lives just as they would any other part of the city.
So I don't go after midnight, but there are plenty of people to do.
Well, I'm sure Steve, you don't really suffer from sleeping issues because, you know, as someone who really have the sleeping issues and also suffering from insomnia from time to time.
And sometimes I do want to have a very secure, safe place to go for a walk during night, especially during midnight.
You know, instead of like lying in bed, well, you can't really get sleepy anyway.
Somehow you just don't want to have a peaceful walk in very safe outdoor environment.
So I think in that case, you know, to have a park that is open during midnight, even for the whole night would be a good idea for me.
And also, I know one of my friends, he's a pet owner.
This dog can get pretty anxious and overwhelmed in parks with a lot of people and dogs.
So that's why he has to take his dog like 5am or 6am in a very early morning every day alongside the streets to take a walk for his dog.
So for him, I would say, you know, to have this park that is open until early morning would be a good idea.
Wow, that's why I'm a cat person.
Still, actually, you don't take your cat for a walk.
Oh, you don't own a cat, do you?
No, I have a very very introvert cat.
But nevertheless, actually, after doing a survey of 300 residents around Ming Hong Cultural Park, they found that 13% of respondents visit the park between 10am and dawn.
So many people would actually have the need to visit a park during midnight.
But after doing a little bit research about this phenomenon, my feeling is that one of the reasons that cities or city planners started to push forward the idea of 24 hour parks is basically a side effect.
It's not their main purpose.
We're not trying really hard to transform all the parks into 24 hour parks.
Instead, we're trying to provide more people with better access to parks in terms of both time and space because one of the major reasons that these parks are transformed into 24 hour parks is because these parks do not have walls and closures anymore.
You cannot really avoid people from getting in when you don't have guards guarding or traversing the park's 24-7 because without walls, people can basically get in anytime they want.
Yeah, actually, I agree with you on that because I think those cities, they are not really trying to offer more...
Or promote. Yes, promote more like greener spaces to citizens.
But I think in essence, we are talking about to make public facilities more accessible to the public, both in time and also in physical spaces because now we are not only seeing parks, they're open 24 hours a day, but also they're trying to dismantle the fences or those borders and they're trying to promote more borderless gardens or parks both in Shanghai, Xinjiang.
And now in Beijing, I believe there are a lot of small pocket gardens, parks nearby your residential areas which don't really have those fences.
You can just go in or get out as free as you want.
And also, it reminds me of those museums are also promoting a similar idea.
They are also trying to stay open during night, 24-7.
And especially some museums, they're also trying to integrate themselves into the local residential areas, meaning that they're also breaking the borders.
They are trying to invite tourists and residents to come to this area where they can really enjoy not only the architect flavor, I mean appreciate the beauty of the architect and also maybe exhibitions inside the museum so that they can really explore the local culture and the history in a very free and open way.
I was looking at information online about...
Because I was curious, I don't think too much about opening hours of parks, but I was looking at Canada to see some examples and there are lots of examples of parks that are open 24 hours a day.
Then I was looking at America as well.
And for example, the Grand Canyon National Park, there's a section of that that's open 24 hours a day where people can go and camp and enjoy their night time experience there.
But I think it depends on how the park is designed.
And I found a piece of literature last night.
There was a book called The Death in Life of Great American Cities.
Jane Jacobs was the author of that book.
And this is a little snippet of what she wrote.
Effective neighborhood physical planning for cities should aim to use parks and squares in public buildings as part of the street fabric.
Use them to intensify and knit together the fabric's complexity and multiple use.
So don't island off parks because a good point was streets don't get closed at night.
Of course streets can be a dangerous place, right?
If people drive eradically at night, but they're still open for the public to use.
So therefore why shouldn't parks be open for the public as well?
But a really great point that the author makes was about the safety of the parks in their design.
Make them open, make them spacious, make them well lit in many places so that people feel comfortable there.
And then you decrease the odds of bad things happening in parks at night.
For example, Central Park in New York, that's very well known to be dangerous at night.
And that's why it's operating hours are limited.
But Central Park in New York, it has a lot of closed off spaces where it's easy to hide.
It's easy for bad things to happen.
But with open spaces and perhaps smaller parks, then we can avoid those types of parks.
Problems potentially.
Actually, here on roundtable, we discussed a lot of topics related to expending the greenery in cities, bringing more nature elements into the city, the wellers' lives.
And that include adding a lot of pocket parks in between communities.
And you cannot believe how June or how competitive this plan is could be because they ask around people living in those neighborhoods, asking them what they want the walls of the little pocket parks in between the communities too bit dismantled or to stay there or to be transparent or to be decorated with different plans.
Do they want more doors or no walls, so no doors at all?
And people have different opinions, have different ideas in terms of do they want their community to be more inclusive or do they want their privacy and certain occasions and all these needs were met by the little park designer.
So yes, people can be quite competitive when it comes to designing in their heart their perfect work to benefit people actually are utilizing these parks or enjoying these parks.
But it's always easier to set than done.
We talk about the fact that if you dismantle all the enclosure, you dismantle all the walls of a park making a park, especially like Steve has mentioned, a major city center park a really big park 24, 7, then we are actually facing multiple probable problems in terms of security, in terms of managing of those parks.
What are some major challenges that Shanghai city planners face when they actually started to promote this 24 hour park idea?
Well, I think the first major challenge would be the security or the safety issue because people do care about whether citizens are safe enough when they are walking inside those parks during midnight.
For example, I think a very tricky question would be if the park has pounds or posts or simple like small ravers inside.
Then if people just maybe fall into the river, then who should really take the responsibility of this kind of issue?
That is a really good point.
Yes, I visited KANGJO previously and the first time I was there, I was astonished because West Lake, there's just no fence, no nothing, you can just walk into West Lake and disappear forever.
That didn't happen in my hometown.
In my hometown Taiyuan, the city, it's a small city, it's not a southern city, it's not renowned for the lakes or the rivers, but we have fence and as a little kid, I felt very safe.
I can share that somehow similar concerns because in my hometown city Tianjin, we also have a river, like a long river because basically the city is built alongside this river.
People can just simply walk alongside the river and there isn't really fence at all.
I do have some kind of various, how about people or elderly people or small kids, they somehow accidentally fall into the river, that could be quite risky.
So I think the same concern coming from this idea of having those parks open during night because maybe for those park operators, it could also be quite costly to have the same number of security staffs as during daytime, so maybe they would just have fewer security staffs during night than how to make sure people are pretty safe in the parks.
Also for local residents who live nearby, noises would also be a huge concern because you can't really control what people do in parks during night, right?
They can simply sing song and they can play games, they can play free speed.
So there are like, you know, I want to hang out with you, that sounds like a great day.
I'm just saying that people can do whatever they want during night in parks, but I think these are challenges can also be solved by regulations and laws, I believe.
I think if you spread the word to the community that this is your space, right?
Especially when we live in urban jungles.
If you spread the word to the community that says this is your backyard, treat it as you would, you know, as you would your other neighbors that live right next to you.
So you can put signs up that say, please keep, you know, the noise to a minimum.
If you're here at night, please be respectful of the community.
Please be respectful of your neighbors.
But you're right, if there's no one there to kind of police those suggestions or those rules, then yeah, obviously there are going to be people who take advantage of that and people who misbehave.
But I think if we balance those two options, well, the risk of, you know, it being too noisy or mis people misbehaving at night versus closing the parks off altogether, I think it's better to try to find a solution or some solutions that allow the spaces to be open all day.
Yes. And in the meantime, one other factor that we should actually take into consideration is the fact that besides human being, there are many other species living in the city in these city center parks as well.
And natural preservation is an element we should talk about in the public popularity of parks and green access and reduce some issues related to maintaining a balance in park activities and natural preservation.
Already, heavy park use has raised concerns about the duration of a lot areas and when it comes to birds and other creatures living in parks, actually, people's activity might disturb their living habits.
Yeah, actually, there's a professor from East China, normal university who weren't that 21st, 7 access in some parks may disrupt wildlife.
And there's also a suggestion to solve this problem.
It is to sit up somehow like quiet zones for its protection.
Maybe we can have some closed areas during night to make sure, you know, animals or plants living in this area can be afraid from noises or disruption from human beings.
But to be honest, I don't really think it's a quite reasonable idea or solution because I think we are talking about parks or gardens built in urban areas, right?
So there's the question of who I mean, who's benefits should come first when you're looking at the city planning.
I'm sure for city planners, that's also a big question for them because if you're going to protect all the species, including plants and animals living in those parks, then perhaps to have this park stay open during midnight is totally a bad idea.
And now we are seeing more initiatives to promote these kind of parks or gardens more accessible during night.
That means we are trying to offer more convenience for city dwellers which are human beings.
I don't know. That's a quite interesting question.
It is. And I think both things can happen at the same time, right?
I don't think people are going to be, you know, running around parks, you know, hunting animals at the same time or things like that.
I understand the concern, but I just don't think that's a big enough concern.
I agree with you to not go ahead with the project.
And you know, everything can be done on a trial basis.
Open them up, see which they've done in Shanghai and see how it's been going and make adjustments as you go along.
City planners will learn after the parks have been open for a period of time what things need to be tweaked, what things need to be changed a little bit so that it's best for everyone.
But I really believe that the city belongs to the citizens that live there.
And when you wall off or close off those parks at night, then you're taking away a section of the city that I think the statistic you mentioned was 13% of people in the city.
That sounds like a low number, but it's not.
That's a, if that's a cross section of the people that were surveyed, you know, that's a lot of number.
That's a lot of people, excuse me, if you look at the entire population of Shanghai.
So therefore, I think opening up the city in the parks to the people is makes the city feel more like a home to people than not.
Yes. And that is exactly what the city planners in Shanghai are doing.
They're opening up the parks to start with and then making them 24 hour accessible and then started to say things like, yes, you are very welcome to visit the park any time of the day.
But if it's during midnight, maybe do not play trumpet in it, maybe do not bring your beloved instrument or your lovely voices when you're singing so out loud that will disturb people living around.
We just have to keep people like Lee out of the parks at 3 AM with her with her sing songs and Frisbee tournets that she's playing.
But also some of the places are kept as quiet spaces or kept like little circle of places with a lot more wildlife than other places.
So maybe during midnight you stay out of those places.
It's not closing off. It's just, you know, temporarily stay away from that area.
And besides that, little details are also being taken care of, including whether or not to leave some rest rooms open even during midnight who should be maintaining them.
How much amount of money should be spent in maintaining these now 24 hour parks, which can be a little bit costly and apparently new technology, advanced technologies are also introduced to these parks to make sure the safety and efficiency of the running of the parks.
Yes, for example, the Mi-Hong Cultural Park has already added 18 surveillance cameras and also hired extra nighttime security guards.
And I think when talking about to have more detailed or different management at night, basically all the entertainment activities are not really a lot after certain time at night, so which wouldn't really give the chance for somebody like me who wants to sing or play game at night in parks.
I think that's a pretty good idea.
And also there are some possible solutions such as we can have more precise or smart, noise monitoring or intelligent lighting or electronic fence could also be implemented to make sure people can enjoy a sound and peaceful, walking in parks at night.
Yeah, I think cameras is a good idea here in Korea.
There are cameras literally everywhere in public.
And that's a great deterrent for people to not do something wrong.
So if you can put cameras in parks, that would be a good move and also you could therefore cut down on the number of staff required for security purposes.
In Korea, we have, there's a job position called, it's usually filled by men and it's called Kyungbi-ajushi.
And those are like security guards.
Typically they're older, they're around maybe 60, 65, they're retired from their careers and they play the role of security guard, adding a few of those to a park at night would be another deterrent.
And for the washrooms, yeah, that's a big issue because washrooms can become really dirty, spray-painted, almost feel unsafe.
But you could go perhaps the European route and make them pay per use and that might help with that issue as well.
Oh, that's a cool idea. And in the meantime, I was wondering since we're talking about different parks and how to make parks more accessible to people around both of you visited any very interesting parks that left a special mark in your heart.
There's a park in Halifax, Nova Scotia where I'm from.
I think it's called Point Pleasant Park, although I haven't been there in a long time, so I might be confusing the parks.
It's on the tip of the land.
Halifax is next to the Atlantic Ocean.
So the park is quite big and there are a number, it's a forest, basically, and there are a number of walking paths through there.
But there are also a number of old structures from the Canada military times, these stone structures within the forest itself.
And one of the things that they do in the summertime, which is really cool, one of the local universities is called Del Housy University.
And they do something called Shakespeare by the sea.
So in the forest, next to those old stone structures, they do a Shakespeare performance.
So they might do Romeo and Juliet or a mid-Summer Night's Dream or something like that.
And people come and put their blankets down and have a picnic in the park.
It's a really cool idea.
I loved that space when I was in university.
That sounds so cool. And which could also make my recommendation so late.
But I just want to recommend a park where it's to be more precise, a reservation area in Southern Beijing.
That is called Nanhai Park.
It is also the protection area of rinders.
You can just enjoy. I mean, you can simply see those rinders living inside the parks.
And also when you walk alongside the parks, there are different exhibitions to show you about the national natural reservation efforts to protect those wild animals and also those wild species here in Beijing and also in China.
So that's just a very interesting and educational park for a little kid and also for a dot.
That's not lame. It's pretty cool.
I would love to visit that park.
And come back. Yeah. Halifax doesn't have any reindeer.
They're pretty talking about it.
Thank you. So when it comes to the initiative to make the parks 24 hour parks, it's more than just about access.
It's about enhancing the quality of urban life, offering a sanctuary at any hour for all who seek it.
Whether it brings more challenges than benefits remains to be seen.
But one thing is certain, the night will never be the same again in Shanghai.
As Shanghai continues to evolve, let's keep the conversation going.
Share your thoughts with us and stay engaged as we follow this fascinating journey into making cities more livable day and night.
