Hi, I'm Dave Isay, founder of StoryCorps.
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All season long, we've been sharing stories from people who did things their own way.
Other people's opinions be damned.
Jackie Miller took that approach to life.
You know, my mom, she was conviction in human form.
That's her son, Scott.
He and his mom did two StoryCorps interviews together 15 years apart.
My name's Scott Miller.
I'm Jackie Miller and I'm with my son, Scott.
They covered a lot of ground in those conversations.
Pretty much Jackie's entire life from beginning to end.
And she made a decision about something that was her decision and that extended to how
she would die.
When you live life on your own terms, the decisions you make can sometimes be incredibly hard on
the people you're closest to.
The only thing that was a problem is I'm saying, how do I tell Scott this?
I'm Jasmine Morris.
And I'm Michael Garafalo.
This is the StoryCorps podcast from MPR.
Scott and Jackie had always shared everything with each other.
That was their way.
Like Scott knew the whole time growing up that he'd been adopted.
So when they came in for their first interview in 2008, Scott wasn't expecting any surprises.
When did you and dad decide to adopt?
We always knew from the time we first married.
We must have talked about it even before that.
We're very methodical people.
Now this is something you don't know.
When I was 17, I got pregnant and the light of my life is my father.
But he gave me 24 hours to leave town.
And I did have a son.
I gave this baby up for adoption and said at that time that I will adopt a child when
I'm able to take care of a child.
Well, I just wasn't ready for that.
I'm sure.
Thank you for telling me.
So many times I was saying, because is this the time to tell him?
I'm 73 now and it just seems like such a big secret.
I guess I'm speaking secrets.
When I came out, I remember kind of saying to you, hey mom, I want to talk to you about
something.
I stumbled just telling you I was gay.
The first thing out of your mouth was, I love you and your mother.
And by that time I knew there wasn't even any question in my mind.
Just as you this wonderful little kid with curiosity and couldn't speak well, you know,
that was as much a part of you as any of the other things.
It's just you and I couldn't be happier if you're happy with your life.
Plus, you helped me with my hair sometimes.
It comes with its perks.
There's no downside for me.
It's kind of funny, I think of myself to be an emotional person, but where you're concerned,
I try not to be very emotional.
I worry that you'll never know just how deeply I love you and how scary it is for me sometimes
to imagine life without you.
That's something I can't make better for you and I don't doubt it'll be tough, but you'll
be okay.
The thing that's been wonderful sweetheart is that we haven't missed much, you know, we
spend a lot of time together and you'll have those memories.
15 years after this recording, we got an email from Scott.
Hi there, I'm writing to inquire about coming back to interview my mom.
My mom is now 88 and nearing the end and as endings have a way of doing, it's been
making me think a lot about beginnings.
So I wondered whether returning to talk about our first interview in her life sense might
be a fitting bookend.
I cannot believe 15 years of I know I don't have any more revelations to unleash on you.
I'm 87.
88.
It's 88.
You have time flies.
I'm aware that how my voice has changed and now I have an old person's voice.
It cracks.
Yeah.
So I'm curious.
What are some of the things you wish you'd understood about getting older sooner?
Well, you know, I thought of old people as a different species than I still don't think
of myself as old.
I know.
It's part of your magic.
I mean, when I find myself, oh, gosh, flirting, I realize a guy would have to be nuts
to flirt back, but that doesn't keep me from doing it.
The last time the guy was giving me my flu shot, he was gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous.
And so I'm making this flirty conversation.
And then I realized I couldn't get my jacket on.
I needed help to get my clothing back on.
I said, oh, well, that's certainly ruined the mood.
So what's life like now?
Lots of doctors appointments, just tons of them.
So my world is really getting smaller.
One day sort of unfolds into the other.
I have time to stop and think about things.
I can sit out on the terrace for a couple of hours doing absolutely nothing.
Life is good, sweetheart.
Good.
But I have difficulty now articulating exactly what it is.
I want to say words don't come that easily to me now.
And it's regrettable, but heck, you know, it just is.
It sounds great to me.
It sounds like the words are coming to you.
I mean, it happens to me all the time.
It's really scary.
The other day, the most simple thing I couldn't remember my cell phone number.
I actually really think and think, and I said, oh, I recognize this is part of getting
not older, but old, you know?
You know, in our first interview, I'd said, it scares me imagining life without you.
And I can tell you that it doesn't so much scare me anymore.
I'm not scared.
But it makes me uneasy imagining a world without you in it.
When your parents are both gone, you're kind of nobody's son.
So when I think about what I'm going to be holding on to when you're gone, it feels
so simple, but our conversations and your voice.
I don't know if this is the time to speak about this, our February plans.
Sure.
You sure?
Sure.
I'm sure it's coming to mind.
For several years, as I saw myself getting more and more frail and aging, I couldn't
see how it was going to get better.
And I've always had this awful fear of homes for assisted living and I'm saying to myself,
you're not getting me in one of these places.
Well then I started thinking, now you need a plan.
You've got a plan for your end.
The only thing that was a problem is I'm saying, how do I tell Scott this?
My biggest fear was how you were going to respond.
After the break, we'll hear about Jackie's plan and Scott's response.
Stay with us.
Hey podcast listeners, what do you think of the season so far?
Alice by leaving a voicemail at 702 706 talk.
That's 702 706 TALK or email us at podcastatstorycore.org.
And remember to listen for a special prompt at the end of the episode.
Welcome back.
Before we go further, a warning.
The second half of this episode deals with what Scott and Jackie refer to as voluntary
assisted death.
This is a complicated issue and there are a lot of strong feelings on all sides.
For this episode, we're going to stick with Scott and Jackie's perspective.
It's their story and that's what we always try to do at Storycore.
But we do every sources that can provide more context, information and support on our
website storycore.org.
Now back to the story.
Knowing she was 88 and nearing the end of her life, Jackie wanted to choose the manner
and the timing of her death.
But because she didn't have a terminal illness, Jackie couldn't do this in the US.
So she found a clinic in Switzerland where it is legal and started the process.
I came across this organization.
It's just a business like way of bringing your life to an end.
They call it a voluntary assisted death.
I said, this is it.
And it was just like the weight of the world had been lifted off those shoulders.
I remember when you told me the really weird thing was I wasn't surprised.
Really?
Okay.
I mean, obviously it was surprising.
But on some level, I've always wondered, is she hatching a plan?
I don't know how realistic this is, but I'm taking comfort in knowing that we have a
plan.
You may not be happy with it, but...
I'm happy that it gives you comfort.
Okay.
It does.
But I will miss having a friend who is unconditionally in love with you.
There's no other relationship that's the same as that.
You can have great friends or loved ones, but it's not the same.
When my mom came out to tell me that this was her plan, she was so afraid of how I was
going to react, it was like, will you still love me the way you love me?
What you're hearing is a third interview, but this time Scott came to story core alone.
A friend of mine later said, in its way it was your mom coming out to you, and I'd never
thought about that.
Obviously, the context is different, but the elements are right.
Friends would talk about how courageous and brave we both were.
And I'd always find it so strange when they would think of me as being courageous or brave,
because I'm like, it's my mom.
What else would I do?
But I remember it hitting me, oh, what's been brave has been me not letting mom see me
crack under pressure.
Having to always let her know, I got you.
I got you.
Her only concern was me, which I guess is part of why I had to let her know, but I'll
be okay.
And I didn't really know.
Jackie worked with the caseworker from the clinic for more than a year before they settled
on a date, February 13th, 2024.
As the date approached, suddenly I was overtaken by a new anxiety.
It was as if mom and I had become one, and I was fearful of anything getting in the way.
This was the most important thing to her.
It was the everything.
And so it became everything for me.
You know, there's the expression we contain, multitudes.
I have never been so aware of what that means.
Our capacity to have so many different emotions and feelings, pushing through a single space
at the same time.
And so two days in advance of the final day, we fell out to bozzles with Sarland.
And the morning of, I went down to the lobby and my mom was already there.
Her makeup is flawless.
She's got this sweater on and she looked amazing.
She did not look like a person who is going to say goodbye.
We're sitting at the table having breakfast.
And my mom says to me, okay, so let's just talk a little bit about later.
So I'm going to look to you for a sign to let me know when it's okay for me to go.
I was a little stunned and then I said to her, mom, you tell me what you want and that's
what we're going to do.
Later at the clinic, the last thing she said to me was, I love you.
And the image I have right now is just that she's propped up on this bed, but it was so
quiet.
And a woman that was part of the clinic, she says to me, you know, hearing is the last
sense that goes.
And I just say to mom, I love you more.
I guess that was always what we did to be the last to say it.
And then the team left the room.
Mom and I sat for a while.
I was still holding her hand and I pushed her hair back a little bit just to neaten it.
And at some point, I just let out this.
It was like a wolf owl, just this rush letting go of everything that I've been holding
on and making a brave face for.
And then I walk outside to get some air.
And I said, okay, what now?
Because all I could think of is I just want to leave this place.
You know, I used to think grief was something that you could work your way through, but
it turns out grief works its way through you.
I know that in time, it's like this internal clay, it'll get reformed and reshaped.
I'm not afraid.
I just feel a little dim right now.
And that's hard.
And I know that my mom, her memory will live in all kinds of interesting ways through
me.
It's both sadness and comfort.
But you know, we had a lot of conversations and one of the last ones she said to me, if
I could live forever and just stay in one way,
I would choose that.
I love life.
And she did.
I can honestly say that there was nothing left unsaid.
And that is something I'm so deeply grateful for.
At Scott Miller, remembering his mother, Jackie.
So what's something that you want me to know when you're not here to tell me?
I was thinking about that.
One of the happiest days of my life was when I first saw you.
You were just so perfect.
I just would like to emphasize in all of the years to come just how revered and how special
and how you gave my life, give my life such meaning.
And I can take such pride in you that has been sustaining influence for me.
And you've brought such light and enjoyment.
And I want you to hear that.
If you or someone you know is in crisis, dial 988 from your phone to reach the suicide
and crisis lifeline.
It's free and confidential.
What's the hardest thing you've ever had to do for someone you loved?
That's our question this week.
Tell us your story by leaving a voice mail at 702-706-talk.
The number again is 702-706-taelk or you can email us at podcastatstorycore.org.
Next week, on our final episode of the season, the story of a 12-year-old paperboy from Long
Island ran away to live at the 1964 World's Fair.
Did the idea of him having gone to the World's Fair?
At the past, my mind now.
So what did you think happened?
I didn't know.
I mean, he was kind of a kid that would just take a walk.
This episode was produced by Joe Corona.
Max Young Rice is our producer.
Judd S.D. Kendall is our senior producer.
Our technical director is Jarrett Floyd and Amy Drasdowska is our executive producer.
Our fact checker is Katie Scott and art for this season was created by Liz McCarty.
Special thanks to Annie Russell, Vonara Tang, and story core facilitators Julia Kirshenbaum
and Mike Roush.
I'm Michael Grafalo.
And I'm Jasmine Morris.
Thanks for listening.
Support for this podcast comes from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a private corporation
funded by the American people.
