This is an All Ears English podcast episode 1191.
How to talk about the glass ceiling in English.
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Do you wanna talk about deeper societal topics in English?
Today, we dive into the glass ceiling.
What does it mean?
And how can you connect with natives on this topic?
Listen today.
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Hey, Lindsay, how are you?
I'm doing great, Michelle.
I'm feeling good.
Let's see what's going on right now.
This episode is coming out in the middle of July.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
So lots of things going on this summer.
Lots of adventures.
I'm hoping to do a road trip around the West.
It's going to be so cool.
And I'm getting ready for that right now.
So really exciting.
All good.
That is so much fun.
That is so much fun.
And you know, by this time, actually, this is kind of interesting.
I think the debates for the Democratic nominee for president will be be Yeah, I think they started like the end of June.
So we'll already be well into that.
Yeah, that's so cool.
There's so many candidates running this year, you know?
Yeah, it's quite a few.
But you know what's kind of cool?
Is there a lot of women running for president?
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
That's so inspiring.
Yeah. it wasn't the highest one she wanted to shatter.
And I think it's great that she's helping so many other women get there or try to get there.
What do you think?
Oh yeah.
She kind of set the stage in a way.
I mean, everyone.
I mean, like you guys know, if you guys were listening to Allers English, back when Donald Trump got elected, we did a couple episodes, you know, kind of describing our shock of what had happened.
And because I think people thought that that she was a shoo-in.
I love that expression.
Shoo-in.
That's a good one, actually.
We'll probably highlight that word for today's episode for you guys to save if you're using the app.
Anyways, side point.
Yeah.
So she thought she was a shoo-in, but she wasn't.
I mean, it was devastating.
It was devastating.
For sure.
Yeah.
Well, okay.
We're not... Guys, don't worry.
We won't talk about politics this whole time.
But...
It's a good way to start, because when I hear the glass ceiling, I just think about Hillary Clinton.
The first thing.
So I don't know because I just feel like she used that phrase a lot in her campaign and people used it about her.
So guys, this phrase again is the glass ceiling.
Yeah.
And we're going to be talking about the glass ceiling today because we have a great listener question about this phrase.
Lindsay, could you read it for us?
Yeah, here it is.
This is from Alejandro Ramirez Carrasco.
And she says, I have a doubt about the idioms.
When you say the glass ceiling, can it be used only for a woman or can I use it for a man as well?
Thanks.
Good question, Alejandro.
Sorry, Alejandro, not Alejandro.
Sorry.
That is a good question.
Yeah, I think that is a really good question.
So guys, you know I went to the dictionary and the dictionary defined it as an intangible barrier with a hierarchy that prevents women or minorities from obtaining upper level positions.
Oh, yeah.
And this is a real thing.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, this is a real thing.
So guys, can you use it about a man?
That's the question.
Yeah, I think you can use it about a man, but it has to be a man who is also a minority.
Oh, interesting.
Okay, good to know.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Do you think though, it's more often used for women?
Or do you think it's...
That was my first thought, honestly.
But when I looked in the dictionary, it mentioned minorities as well.
So I believe that you know you could use it about a man who you know, potentially maybe a gay man or you know, I don't know just a minority in the place where you're working, because you know, many times I mean – all the time actually minorities get pushed down and have to work extra hard to get into.
You know certain positions right, so I think that it can be used, but I do agree with you Lindsay, that when I hear it I do think of women.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
I mean these are all issues that need to be addressed and talked about and things need to be done to break down the glass ceiling for women minorities, different groups, marginalized groups GLBT, all of that.
Definitely.
Right, right, right, right.
Exactly.
So what is so I found an article, guys, we're going to post the link to this article.
This is really interesting.
It's called What is the glass ceiling and how do we break it?
So this is from the website in her site.
There was no date or author, but Yahoo picked it up on May 30th, 2019.
So we'll give you – we're going to give you the link to it so that you can read it.
But, Lindsay, I wanted to tell you a little bit about this article.
Okay.
All right.
Okay.
So apparently – so we got some insight on the phrase the glass ceiling.
So apparently it was first used in the 1970s.
In 1978, there was a woman named –
Marilyn Loden, she worked for the New York telephone company.
And so what it was about was that people used to say that.
Well, they used to, or still do say that it was women's fault for failing to get far in careers right?
Like they would blame it on certain things, right?
And say, oh, you know, it's because they have children, it's because they have this and that, right?
But Lodan said that it wasn't any of these things.
It was actually because of this barrier, this invisible barrier.
And that's where the term the glass ceiling came from.
While you listen to our episodes, allearsenglishcom forward slash bonuses to get our super cool app.
Thanks, guys.
Interesting.
So what was that barrier about?
So it's not about different things.
What's it about then?
It's just about the fact that you know women are.
Apparently they aren't given the opportunity the same way that men are.
I mean, we do not get paid the same amount as men we have.
I mean, there's a whole load of stuff going on politically right now with you know the rights that women do and don't have.
You know, and we're not going to go on about the whole article, but it also talked about the glass ceiling and how different areas are impacted, such as parenthood stereotypes race, gender and discrimination.
Right.
And it talks about different ways to break this ceiling.
Right.
Yeah.
So, Lindsay, what are some of the ways they talk about?
So let's see.
Okay, so some things we can do.
Well, so I think, yeah, this is so true.
This is good.
Like talking about how much people make at work, right?
So not keeping it secret, but having it out there, out in the world.
Maybe having a way to have it posted somewhere would be good.
I think often at a workplace it's considered a hush-hush topic that you're not supposed to talk about how much you make it work.
But why not?
Because if the person sitting next to you is doing the same thing and making more than that could be a guy next to you, then that's not fair.
And that should be out there in the world.
Right, right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So I think that it's interesting.
It's an interesting cultural difference because you know we've talked about how you don't talk about how much you get paid.
In American culture.
Yeah.
I wonder if for our listeners how that topic is approached in their cultures.
Guys, I would be so interested if you came back to our blog.
Come back to 1191, type it in the search bar and let us know.
Can you talk about how much you make it work?
Or is that also a hush hush topic for you in your culture?
Right.
Yeah.
If you're not, if we're told not to talk about it, then it's easier for people to get paid differently.
And that's not right.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
I love it.
Yeah.
So, Lindsay, I mean, we will give you guys the link to this article.
It's very, very interesting.
But I mean, what do you think about this phrase?
Do you use it?
Do you feel there is a barrier?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, for sure.
I mean, we can find this in the statistics, right?
I don't have the statistic in front of me, but I do.
I know that there.
I've seen numbers out there.
Something like women make like 80 cents to the dollar on a man, something like that.
I don't.
I don't want to throw out numbers that I'm not sure about, but I know it's been proven like it's.
We know it.
The numbers are out there.
It's been documented. that women make less than men.
So there's no question that there is a glass ceiling.
Yes.
Right, right.
Absolutely.
No, I definitely.
Yeah, it is something that I think, especially recently, people are talking about a lot more like how to change this.
Well, I don't want to say that.
I mean, it's possible that's been talked about for a long time.
But it's all it's been an issue for a long time.
And you know we have to think about this glass ceiling and You know if we're, if that affects our daily lives.
Right.
I like this.
Can I just make a quick side point about this word?
I love that they call it a glass ceiling.
So it's the idea like you can look up and you can kind of see the next level and it seems like you should be able to get there.
Because it's clear and you can see it, but you can't quite get there.
It's like something blocks you.
You know what I mean?
I think that's great.
That's a really good way of putting it, Lindsay.
Nice visual.
Yeah, it's so true.
You know that there is another level and you can't get to it.
So you need to break this glass ceiling.
Ceiling, right?
So, I mean, how can we use this in a sentence?
I mean, I hear either with like break the glass ceiling or break through.
I also hear the verb to shatter.
I hear to shatter the glass ceiling.
Yeah.
So we use these words that we would use when it comes to like, breaking a mirror or breaking glass, because it's all within this glass theme, right?
So that makes a lot of sense.
Right.
Anything you can do to break that glass.
All right.
So let's just use a couple of examples for our listeners so that we can see how it would be used.
So for example, so what's the first one, Lindsay?
Okay.
So Polly is the first female CEO of this company.
Congratulations, Polly, for breaking the glass ceiling.
Nice.
Yeah.
So would you say this directly to someone?
I mean, what do you think, Michelle?
Would you use it to directly make a comment like to a colleague or something like that?
Or is it more like talking on a societal level about concepts?
I think it's talking on a societal level, but I do think I could imagine if like like, let's say that perhaps if it was a group of women and they are out like at a business lunch and maybe Polly's just been promoted.
Um, and it's kind of like a, you know, a women's empowerment thing that I could imagine that somebody would say yeah, and Polly, you did it, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In a very kind of ceremonial way, right?
Like with a group.
So it's not something that you would just throw out casually as much, right?
Because yeah, but maybe you're giving a speech or something, something like that.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Like I wouldn't just like randomly say it like to a friend or something like that.
Probably not.
Right.
So I like, Lindsay, that you mentioned this would be maybe in like a speech or a ceremonious kind of situation.
But yeah, I agree that you're more likely to hear this phrase, maybe even on the news, than to tend to use it.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And so what's another way we could use it?
Okay, so here we go.
Um well, you know what I'm gonna talk to my boss about how Paul is getting more money than I am unbelievable how the glass ceiling still exists and women get paid less.
Yeah, I mean, I think this would be a more common thing because again, this is talking about the societal concept, right?
And it's not directly to someone.
It's just kind of the concept, the societal issue.
Yeah, like it.
Right, right, right.
So yeah, so this is a very interesting phrase with a lot of history to it.
So go read that article, research it more and let us know.
You know, is there a glass ceiling in your culture?
And do you have any ways to describe it as well?
I think, you know, what's the takeaway for today, Lindsay?
Well, I mean, I think you guys, so first of all, the glass ceiling is real.
It's definitely real in the US.
We'd like to know if it's real in your country.
My guess is it definitely is.
It's probably real everywhere in the world.
That's just a fact, right?
So, but you guys, in terms of your level, you are ready to talk about concepts like this in English.
So go back, listen to today's episode again, make sure you see the transcript so you know the vocab words, and start having these conversations.
I think you guys want to talk about these things.
I think you're ready for it.
This is an example of a deeper topic that you guys can handle right now.
So we want to encourage you don't stay on the surface with your English, dig into these topics, right.
Right, right, right.
Exactly.
I think that we can't avoid these tough conversations and I think they're interesting and they can really help you connect and learn more about other people.
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
For sure.
So guys, go for it and don't be afraid and share the show.
Share All Ears English with one friend who you think is more or less at your level of English and also would be interested.
Somebody that's curious and engaged in the world and would want to learn how to talk about a topic like this.
Just go on and send this episode to them by text.
All right, guys.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Okay, Lindsay, this has been a really interesting one.
And thanks to our listener for that great question.
Yeah, thanks for hanging out today, Michelle.
Good topic.
All right.
Bye, Lindsay.
Okay, bye.
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