Welcome to the Allie on the Run show.
I'm your host, Allie Feller, and this is where I talk with people who are doing exciting things on the run and beyond.
From professional athletes and celebrity runners to the everyday amateur and back of the pack runner, we are here to celebrate everyone and anyone who enjoys a life on the run.
Whether you are running towards something big or away from something that's been holding you back, I am here to hold your hand and help you pick up the pace.
And I am so excited to share today's conversation with Grant Fisher, because who doesn't love Grant Fisher?
Two -time Olympic bronze medalist Grant Fisher, master of the 5 ,000 and 10 ,000, and just an all -around great guy, fun to root for, I swear everyone is a Grant Fisher fan.
In addition to his own racing, including dropping down to the mile at the Prefontaine Classic and running a personal best at the Bowerman Mile.
We also just saw Grant on the pacing team for Faith Kipyagon's Breaking 4 event.
He was quite literally chosen to be Faith's right hand man.
And I loved hearing all about how he got the job, what it was really like being a part of it, and whether he'd do it again if asked.
So let's get right to the good stuff.
Please join me in welcoming Grant Fisher Fisher to the alley on the run show.
All right, we're giving the people what they want.
Grant Fisher by very high demand here on the alley on the run show.
Thank you so much for doing this.
How are you doing today?
Yeah, I'm doing great.
Um, it's a beautiful day up in park city.
Um, I've been back here for a few days after a couple of races and events I've been at.
So So, yeah, nice to be home and relaxing and back in the good weather and back in the mountains.
Have you run today?
Yeah, I did a workout this morning.
I've got another workout this afternoon.
Oh, a double session.
So when we're doing these workouts, what is the goal?
What's the next race?
What are we working toward?
So the next race and the next goal is the U .S. Championship.
That's in about three weeks' time.
I don't know when you're going to release this, but that's at the end of July.
i'll double the 10k and the 5k so uh it'll be uh yeah it's always a hard team to make but fingers crossed hopefully get the job done and then uh after that i'll head over to europe hit a few races and um as long as everything goes to plan i'll be at the world championships in tokyo at the end of or at mid -september um so we're kind of getting into the exciting part of the season now which is uh it's a good feeling there's a lot of grind and uh you know base building before for this but now it's actually time to race which is fun yeah how are you feeling i know that a few weeks ago months ago weeks
ago uh we know that you had to pull out of the third grand slam sounded like you were dealing with a little hamstring situation but then back on the track back running pr is doing what grant does best so how are you feeling now how's the body yeah body's good now um you know any injury's a bummer and um that one was kind of strange so it was a nerve issue which which I've never had before.
Um, I've had, you know, bone stuff, muscle stuff, tendon stuff, whatever, but I've never had a nerve issue.
So there's some nerves that run down the back of your hamstring basically.
And, um, and we're freaking out and it was, uh, it was like a burning hot, you know, tingly feeling.
Um, yeah. And it came up right before a race, which was just bad timing.
Um, you know, ultimately I got it resolved and stuff, but the timing of it, and then I had to miss a race, which is a bummer.
Um, it was one of the injuries or like small little things that like, if that would have happened in normal training, just in the middle of a random block, no one would have heard about it.
Cause I just would have taken some time off and dealt with it, but I happened to be during a race.
So, uh, you know, it happens.
You can't choose the timing.
You're so nonchalant talking about it.
And maybe it is because you're feeling well now, but when your nerves or any part of your body starts freaking out, do you tend to freak out?
yeah you know I usually have a little bit of a crash out period um where it feels like the end of the world um but you know I've got a good team around me I've dealt with injuries before you know once once I kind of get over the emotional like just disappointment of something like that um then I can kind of keep you know get back on the horse and build towards something and you know make little steps every day to getting healthy again but yeah definitely the beginning I mean, you know, I have the same thoughts that probably swirl through anybody's mind when there's a setback.
It's just like, man, you know, am I going to make it back?
Like, how long is this going to take?
What am I doing? Am I doing this right?
What mistake did I make leading up to this?
Whatever. But yeah, once you get through that little period.
Just that complete downward spiral.
Once you put that to the side, you're good to go.
Yeah, you got to get through that.
And then yeah, it's been good since.
So yeah, I've been having some good, good weeks of training and got a little PR last week.
So that's a good confidence boost going into this part of the season.
And yeah, it was little injury things.
I mean, they, they make the good days feel even better.
You know, not it's not that I would want an injury just to ground me at any point.
But just like once you go through that and come back, you are a little more appreciative of just being able to get out and go.
All right. So that little PR that you mentioned, which, by the way, as you're building toward the five and the 10 to do that double, you just go out and rip a PR in the mile.
So let's talk about that pre -classic good showing in an interviews after you sounded kind of mixed of like, I'm good.
I'm happy. And so now a few days removed reflecting on your race at the pre -classic where you did run a mile PB.
How are you feeling?
How are you reflecting on that race?
Yeah, you know, it, um, it is mixed feelings.
Um, you know, normally I run the 5k and 10 K, uh, which at the professional level, usually people kind of stay in their little silos of what they're really good at and stay there.
Um, I was up against, you know, almost all of the best milers in the world.
Um, and they usually stay in that mile distance and don't really venture up to the five and 10 K and my event category usually doesn't venture down, uh, at least at the elite level down to the 1500 and mile.
So it was a little different, um, slightly like on the edge of my range, as far as, um, what I'm used to and what I trained for.
Um, but I was excited.
It was kind of a, there was nothing really to lose for me because ultimately it wasn't, that's not my specialty.
You know, if I blow up, you know, no one cares.
Um, if I do well, then it's only bonus, you know, so going in, I felt pretty relaxed and excited.
Um, and yeah, I got a really nice PR out of it.
I haven't run a real mile, a full mile in 10 years.
So, uh, if I didn't PR, it would have been a pretty bad sign.
Uh, so yeah, I'll, I'll take the PR and, um, the time was great.
Uh, three, three 48 in the mile, which is, uh, you know, faster than I thought I would ever run in the mile.
Um, I would have wanted to be like closer to those top guys, uh, to like really mix it up with them, but I just wasn't, I just wasn't ready for that type of pace.
It was set to world record pace.
So it wasn't exactly the dip your toe in the water, you know, try the mile again, type race.
This was like all out from the gun where we're sending that type race.
So, um, yeah, it was mixed happy with the time.
I wish I would have finished a little higher higher up in the race, uh, like really fighting it out with the leaders.
But, uh, you know, for where my training is, the, the type of training I've been doing, uh, that was pretty good.
Don't you ever just want to say to all those guys in the field, like the dedicated milers, don't you want to be like, all right, now come race the 10 with me, like, come, come do my thing and let's reverse this.
Yeah. I don't think, uh, they would be as excited about that as I I was about the mile, you know?
Yeah. At the elite level, like it's crazy.
Even like the 100 meter versus the 200 meter, you know, it's a different type of athlete.
Sometimes it's a different training.
Um, the 200 versus 400, you hardly ever see someone do that.
Um, like it's crazy.
Just a 200 meter difference in a race, uh, changes the body type that's optimal for it.
It changes the training that's optimal, all sorts of things.
So the 10 K versus the 1500, yeah, Yeah.
Completely different training.
Well, similar training, but different training, uh, and you know, different personalities, different people.
It was fun. I don't get to race that group of guys very often.
So it was a good time.
If there was nothing on the line, what's the shortest and longest you'd be willing to race?
Like no stakes, just like trying it out.
I mean, I'd race a marathon and I think that's in my future at some point.
Um, that's, that's the longest I would go right now, I would maybe do like a trail ultra where you're just running for fun.
Um, I don't think I would want to like go into an ultra and like really try to rip just because I don't have any experience at doing that.
I'd feel more comfortable trying to rip a marathon. And then the shortest distance, I mean, I would race a 400, uh, anything, anything shorter than that, though.
I feel like I'd get hurt on the first step.
Like just hamstrings ripping off immediately.
immediately yeah yeah the 400 I I could at least build into it and do something you know moderately respectable but anything short of that I think it's a that's an injury okay so you're not looking to get down in the blocks but anything past that we're we're good to go yeah I mean usually people use blocks in the 400 yeah in the four no way I would I've never come out of blocks so I it probably slowed me down if anything just because I don't know how to do it one of my greatest fears in life would be trying to get out of the blocks uh hey last summer had a pretty good showing over there in paris came
home with some medals where do you keep them uh they are in boxes uh under the coffee table in my living room are they like fancy display boxes or are they like boxes because you haven't hung them up yet they are so when when you medal at the olympics they give you a cool little display box thing um so they're in the cool display box but the box is closed those.
Um, so I had some friends over maybe a week or two ago and they were asking me about the medals and I pulled them out and the boxes were all dusty and stuff.
And they were making fun of me because I have these little stuffed animal guys that you get, uh, if you medal.
And so it's like the little Olympic mascot and he's got bronze shoes.
Um, and so I have those guys like up, up, like on a shelf.
So there, they have a better display spot than my medals.
So like looking at them that much it feels like if I have them out it's like a feeling of like okay I did it it's over like you know like there's nothing left to go for um I don't know why and and maybe that's just the way I'm wired and maybe that's just the way like someone that's trying to be the best in the world has to be wired but I know it feels like a sense of like I already made it if I have them out and I'm looking at them all the time because I mean winning an Olympic medal at all.
I mean, that's a dream.
But I think I still have some good opportunities to do some cool stuff.
So I don't want to, you know, rest, rest on my laurels type thing.
Wow. But I do have them.
That's such an interesting take.
I don't think I've ever heard someone describe it like that.
That's so interesting of like, there they are, but you still got more to give, which hell yeah, of course you have more to give.
Is it fair to say if you had to choose between the five and the 10, is there one that like has your heart a little more?
Uh, I generally enjoy the 5k a little more.
Um, just because it's, I mean, a 10 K is just a long time to suffer.
Um, as far as like the Olympics and, um, you know, my races at the Olympics this, this past year, I, the 10 K definitely is more special to me because that was the first one.
Um, the 5k, I went into that race with way less pressure and expectation and you know at that point i'd won one medal and i was like dude if i get dead last i don't care because i already got a medal uh so the 5k was like you know the the cherry on top you know um whereas the 10k you know i was going into that thinking hey you know olympics come every four years i don't know where i'm gonna be in four years like i could be better i could be worse i could be still in the sport i might not like this is my like one shot uh to get an olympic medal so there was a lot of pressure uh basically from myself
uh to get it right because there's there's no do -overs you know it's and most races you get do -overs uh but the olympics is one of the few where it's one and done and those define your career um they're they're so hard to get those medals and uh to to finally get one after being close to getting a medal before it meant so so much whereas the 5k um yeah that that one was just extra excitement uh way less pressure but the 10k you know i was crying after it was like man i put so much into this into this one moment and there's a million things that could have gone wrong but like i pulled it off hell
yeah you did twice did life change after becoming a two -time Olympic medalist?
It didn't change that much, but it did change a little bit.
There was a lot more attention after that, that, you know, track is a really fun sport, but ultimately it's not as big and it's a little more niche than your NBA, NFL, definitely in the US, NHL, stuff like that.
So the time that most people are paying attention is the Olympic games.
So, you know, know the the world championships happen every other year and it's the exact same group of people the exact same athletes the exact same stakes but I don't know the numbers but probably like a tenth of the people pay attention to it relative to the olympic games so yeah the the attention definitely changed after you know I was invited to you know going to sports games or coming out at halftime or like going to award shows or being on different um media outlets and stuff um so I was kind of of riding the wave after because after the Olympics, I was so tired, I was mentally and physically
and emotionally just spent.
So I was able to spend the fall after that just kind of touring around and celebrating, which was really fun.
So life changed in that regard. And now there's a lot more, just a lot more eyeballs on me, which, you know, they're there for a good thing.
I think in a way, it's a little bit of pressure, but they're there because there's big expectations for me now.
Um, so yeah, life changed a little bit, but ultimately, like, I, I dunno, I feel like my friends, my training partners, you know, people I train with myself, like, you know, I'm still the same person as before.
You just have these, you know, a new title attached your name, which, which is cool.
Um, and then you go into this year and now when you go to a race, you know, you're announced as an Olympic medalist, which is really cool.
You know, that's something I've always wanted.
So what does that do for the pressure?
Like you said, talking about the medals, like you have that relationship with them of like, I know I have more to give.
Don't get comfortable here.
And you're always going to have that after your name.
You're always going to be Grant Fisher, Olympic medalist. So does that make you feel like you have to show up with something to prove?
Or is it like, I've proved it and now I'm just going to give it what I got?
How do you make sense of all that?
that? Yeah, I think, um, I think, I think you might already have a sense of this and it'll probably come out again later in this conversation, but like, there's no one that'll put more pressure on me than myself.
Like no one has greater expectations for me than me.
Um, you know, other people expecting things of me or putting pressure on me.
Like, yeah, those are because people expect me to do something big or something good, you know, they're good, good expectations.
Um, and that's how I talk to myself too.
You know, I, I have a high standard for how I operate and how I race and um ultimately in sports in general you you just don't know what's coming next um similar to how I felt before the Olympic 10k where I was like man I don't know where I'm going to be in four years will I ever have this chance again um I need to make the most of it you know that that kind of applies to every day you know that you you literally don't know what's around the corner and um the curtains are going to close in my career eventually eventually uh and i probably won't be the one to decide when that happens like it'll
probably kind of happen to me um and so because of that i want to make the most of every chance i have so when i do line up for a race like i want to do my best not because i'm an olympic medalist now but just because that's what i expect out of myself i expect a good effort and you know when when I, when I don't get that out of myself, it's, uh, it's disappointing.
Uh, so yeah, the pressure is definitely different.
I think I've, I've been at the elite level for long enough now that I, I know how to tune it out and kind of get the race done on my terms. Um, but yeah, it's a little different now.
I mean, when I was, you know, a year ago, two years ago, if someone had an Olympic medal, I would much rather beat someone with with Olympic medal than not an Olympic medal, you know?
And now like, if someone's a gold medalist, I'd much rather, like, I want to beat them a lot.
Cause they're gold medalists because it's like the transitive property doesn't really exist in sport, but it feels good, you know, to see the Olympic medalist here.
I beat a American record holder here.
I beat a world record holder here.
It's, you know, there's a good signs that you're getting to that world -class level.
So I know there's, you know, with that attention comes a target as well.
And people watch you, you can't really hide in the pack anymore.
Uh, you're, you know, if you have an Olympic medal, I feel like you're never an underdog again.
Uh, so you can never kind of have that come from behind momentum.
Uh, you're always going to have some, some eyes on you.
So it's a slightly different feeling, but man, they're all good things.
All good things. Yeah.
Speaking of all good things, what about the fun factor?
What is the most fun that you've had running or racing in recent memory?
uh i mean probably just sharing those big moments with the people i care about um i guess sharing the big moments and the small moments you know they they all are kind of the same they're both very important and sometimes it's the small moments that really stand out um you know coming off an olympic year of course celebrating with my family and my friends right after was really special um you know seeing my coach after the race really special uh things like that those those are moments you don't forget um but then there's like the mundane stuff the day -to -day like going for a run with your buddies
and it's beautiful out and you finish and you just lay down on a turf field and just talk about life you know stuff like that you don't forget those moments either and I think back to every phase of my career you know when I was on Bowerman when I was in college when I was in high school and it is like the small moments that stick out out a lot more.
And I'm sure now in 10 years, I'll look back to this period of my life and it'll be those little things that seem mundane or seem repetitive or just seem not that important that that will stick in my head.
The big moments are almost so surreal that they're hard to remember.
Like you remember the feelings and the emotions, but you don't remember the details as much uh so yeah i feel like the most fun i've had lately is i don't know just doing what i love i can't really pick out really significant moments i love that answer that's the sweet stuff that's the magic sauce right there is just coming back to what you love day in and day out i mean i think that's i think that's beautiful you mentioned celebrating with friends and family i did want want to bring up family.
Is it true that your parents met on a track team that your parents met running?
Yeah. Okay. You've done your homework.
So, uh, so my dad ran at Arizona state and my mom ran at Houston.
My dad ran like five Ks and 10 Ks.
My mom ran middle distance and, um, my mom's coach at one point, uh, left Houston and started coaching at Arizona state.
and a few of my mom's friends transferred with the coach. And one spring break, my mom and a couple of her friends that had stayed at Houston went to Arizona State to visit their old friends that had transferred.
And there she met my dad.
So they met through track.
My grandfather ran track at Washington State.
So I come from a track family for sure.
My siblings are more soccer.
My sister played at University of Michigan.
My brother played at Stanford and now plays for Toronto FC.
so I'm the one runner of the kids but I come from a endurance family for sure.
Were you competitive within the family growing up?
I was very competitive with my brother.
My sister kind of stayed out of it.
Smart girl. Yeah, she was smarter than us.
Everything with my brother and I turned into a game and therefore a competition.
Usually, I had the natural advantage just because I was a little little older so you know when when you're a kid being 10 years old versus six or seven makes a huge difference yeah physical ability and and everything so uh everything we did turned into a game and uh it always turned into a competition um but it was fun and i think that shapes me a little bit to who i am now and who my brother is now it's like the the competitiveness uh in in wanting like a battle, like not in like a physical sense, but just like, I think right now, like I'd rather go in and win a race or I'd rather go in right
now and like lose a race at the line, like give it everything and just barely get out kicked.
Then just race the wrong competition.
Like, like if I lined up against a group of middle schoolers, that wouldn't be that fun.
Even if I won, you know?
But if I lined up against a world -class person and battled to the line and barely got upbeat that'd be way more fun and i think that applied when my brother and i were kids you know we even if it was just like who could throw the paper piece of paper crumpled up into a ball into the trash can from a certain distance like we wanted each other to try our best because that was fun the competition was fun um the uh like if my brother didn't try it wouldn't be that fun i i don't know how much that much sense that makes but uh yeah the the environment it was was healthy fun, uh, healthy competition.
And, uh, I, yeah, I enjoyed it.
And my brother enjoyed it too.
My sister, I think watched and observed and, uh, just laughed at us.
Well, and just to be clear, if you lined up right now and raced a bunch of middle schoolers, there's not a chance any one of them is like beating you, right?
I don't think so. Uh, new prodigy out there.
Yeah. I would hope I, yeah.
If I got beat by Miller middle schooler, I think, uh, my job might might be on the line.
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Hey, can we talk about breaking four?
Yeah. All right. Before we get into some of the details of it, just when you reflect on that experience as a whole and what it was like for you, what stands out?
What's sort of the snapshot moment from the day?
The snapshot is the race itself.
It was a very interesting experience because usually when I go into those race environments i'm the one racing so i'm running to maximize myself um in this case i was in a race environment but i was there as a support uh there were 13 pacers and i was one of them and our jobs were to support faith and however faith and her team thought we could be used best was how we were going to do it so um usually in a race i'm you're trying to like when you're you're competing yourself, I'm trying to be as relaxed as possible and, you know, be aware enough that if something happens where someone makes a move
or someone trips, I can snap out of it and do something, whether that's move up, move to the side, whatever.
In this case, I was like, I needed to be super lucid the whole time because I was assigned to be right next to Faith and watch her the entire race.
And based on how she was feeling, her management team and the Nike team and staff and sports science group, uh, told me to a encourage her, uh, give her, you know, good feedback and also tell the other pacers what to do, because we don't, if you watch the race, we have this crazy formation thing.
And then halfway through we adjust it.
And, uh, I don't know how much you can tell how much I'm talking, but I was like barking around at people the whole race.
So I had to be super switched on the whole time.
There was no like sitting back and relaxing.
relaxing. So the race itself was very interesting because usually I don't remember a whole race.
Like I might remember like, oh, this happened halfway and then someone tripped and then I kicked.
And so you can kind of remember those moments, but the other parts are blurs.
This one, I can remember the whole thing.
And because my job was to check on Faith, watch her, see how her positioning was, predict if she was going to start to fall off, predict if she was is going to move up a little bit.
I basically had a front row seat to the whole thing.
So that was the coolest part.
And yeah, it was an incredible effort, you know, just to see that up front, to see someone go for just a huge goal, a absolutely massive goal and not, you know, not tiptoe into it, you know, really go for it, really put yourself out there and see what what happens in front of the world.
It was pretty cool.
And, you know, she she fell short of her goal.
But it was it was impressive.
It was inspiring. And I think anyone that watches that is like, wow, she went until the wheels came off, which is, you know, what more can you ask of someone?
Oh, it was awesome.
It was so fun to watch. And from my vantage point, I couldn't see you barking at anyone.
It looked like you were smiling the whole time, Grant, like you you looked like you were having fun out there.
Were you, were you stressed?
Cause you did have a stressful job.
It was fun. I did feel some pressure going in because yeah, usually when I race, it's like, Hey, if I do well, awesome.
If I make a mistake, it affects me.
Um, in this case, you know, I was affecting someone else if I made a mistake.
Uh, and there was a lot riding on this one person.
Uh, so I felt some pressure to get it right.
I was kind of nervous before, uh, but I was trying my best to stay relaxed because it you know faith was going to the edge she was she was going to go straight into the fire and see what happens and at some point she knew and we all knew that it was going to get really really hard so I was trying to stay as relaxed and composed and positive as possible just to hopefully you know give her that support so you know if she looked over and I was straining or I was looking nervous or I was looking distraught I don't think that would be a good feedback for her to have. So, um, yeah, I was trying to,
yeah, just, just do my job, um, help her out, be kind of a support, a person to make her feel comfortable out there.
Um, that was, that was most of what my job was.
I was like a comfort person.
I wasn't as integral in the drafting formation.
Um, the, there were about five guys in front that were were like 6 '3 and up that were much more integral in the aerodynamics of the whole thing.
I was more there to be a, I forget, like a wingman, like a helper.
So on the broadcast, they sort of explained it and social media went crazy.
I don't know if you saw this.
People were just so excited for you for this, as they essentially said that you were handpicked by faith to have that role.
Can you you walk me through what that was like for you like did you get a call one day that was like hey you're the guy this is what it means like how how was that translated to you and did you know that that was a potential specific role that someone was going to have um so it's kind of 50 50 so when i was first asked to be involved in the project um i wasn't told what my role would be i was just supposed to be a pacer um when we actually got to paris we got there about six days in advance all the pacers and um we were on the track twice a day and having classroom sessions going through the aerodynamics
of the whole thing the exact positioning that we needed to be and all these different scenarios so you've got scenario a which is like faith crushes it and and runs too fast and is running up on the pacers then what do we do scenario b you know faith runs runs the exact pace and, you know, tries to kick down from four flat just under.
And then we have all the other scenarios of like, well, what if she falls back here in this segment of the race?
And then she kicks up, you know, what happens if she falls off early?
What happens if she trips?
What happens if one of the pacers trips, we have all these different scenarios.
And in response to each scenario, we change shape and formation to accommodate, uh, to, to still create an optimal setup for her.
So we had to memorize all these different, different, you know, basically place like, like, like we were playing football or something.
And as we learned them, we tried out different spots in the formation and the way that we settled, I ended up being behind Faith.
So we had maybe five of the really big guys up front.
That was best for the arrow stuff.
And then we had three of us kind of at an angle behind her to keep the wind from kind of swirling behind.
We were kind of a spoiler.
And then we had a line of a bunch bunch of other people um that would provide support from the back and help with aerodynamics as well and in all these different scenarios if someone like trips or drops out or is tired those people move up and fill in the gaps and we shift the formation so it became very complicated um so we were practicing warming up into these formations we were practicing running reps in the formations we had people stand in to pretend to be faith and run run a lap and we would be around her and the sports science people would tell the fake faith to go go out hard and then
slow down and then kick back up and we were supposed to respond with the correct scenario and then the Nike people and her team would follow next to us in golf carts and film the whole thing and then we'd finish and they'd say okay you move here you move up half a step okay we lost the formation here you need to come back all these things so we practiced a ton ton um and it was the job of the three guys where i was behind faith to assess the situation and make a decision on how to adjust to these scenarios um about two days before the race faith came in and ran some reps with us and you know of course
she she played herself there we didn't need to so she got to play herself and um she gave some feedback that she was a little little uncomfortable in the formation um she had these six foot five guys in front of her and she was like i don't i don't feel used to that you know can we try some other stuff so we ran a few reps with different people next to and in front of her and after running those she said that she liked my stride the best to run beside and next to so that's how i got drafted as the the uh i guess i was on her right side so i was her right hand man um so that's how i got got drafted
into that spot and then even leading up to hours before the race they were adjusting the formation um at lunch i remember walking to go get some food and i ran into face manager and one of the people at the nike sports science lab and they pulled me aside and made this scratch piece piece of paper and they're like we just changed the formation again we just spoke to the aerodynamics lab this will work you go here now so uh the final position that i ended up in And the shape that everybody ended up in was decided maybe five hours before the race.
Um, and, uh, yeah, so it was very, very fluid.
Um, but that's kind of how I got slowly slotted in as the helper guy.
This is all, all I'm picturing this whole time is like top gun and then having all the like classroom sessions before it's time to go like fly the mission.
And at the last minute, they're like, actually Maverick, we need you to fly.
So just this is the running equivalent of that.
What was the camaraderie like among the Pacers, the team and, of course, Faith as well?
Was there a moment before you all went out into the stadium that you had together?
What was what was the rapport like?
It was it was very interesting because there were 13 people, all of us kind of spanning several event categories.
categories uh but we were all on the same team all of a sudden uh which is not common in pro running you know in high school and in college you might run for your team you know you have a team score in cross country i haven't felt those things in quite a while so it was fun to be a part of something um and kind of work together with these guys that i'm used to you know racing and trying to beat and uh you know i i think everyone in in track is a pretty nice personality where where people are friendly when you race it's cutthroat man like it's like I want to win yeah I'd rather me win than you
win you know so uh it was fun to kind of come together and have a different goal um faith of course her goal was to break forward but all of us our goal wasn't so wasn't that faith breaks for our our goal was just that we supported faith the best we could um so however that materialized and what we were told that was our goal um so it was really fun and we kind of took pride in the, the little segment that you were assigned to.
So all the big guys up front, they call them the sports science team called them the shield.
So they called, called themselves team shield.
And then where I was, we were called the spoiler by the sports science team.
So we call ourselves a spoiler.
Uh, so we kind of had like a little identity going and, um, yeah, it was fun.
Um, we all warmed up together.
We did drills together, together went into the call room together and you know normally where you're you know eyeing people up you know maybe talking some trash i don't know you're coming together and you're saying like all right let's let's get this done you know for for someone else um you know we came together and had like a little powwow right before we came out of the tunnel and stuff um it was very very unique uh i don't know if i'll be a part of something like that again uh just because this was a very very rare event.
Maybe if there's another attempt at four minutes, if I did a good enough job, maybe I'll get invited back.
But that type of mentality just is so rare in pro track and field, in pro sports in general.
It was really fun. So earlier you referenced, you said that you couldn't tell if we could tell that you were barking things all throughout the race.
What types of things were you saying?
Were you like making calls and saying, all right, change it up?
What was coming out of your mouth?
Do you remember? Yeah.
So I was supposed to be slightly ahead of Faith and just on her right outside.
And I had a little lane.
So Faith was supposed to stay on the inside of lane one.
I was not allowed to step to the inside of lane one.
I had to stay either to the outside of lane one or on the line between one and two so that I didn't cut her off at any point.
But I was told to keep checking on her and yeah, give her positive feedback so i was saying things like you know you're good we're on the lights looking good stay on it stay attached relax you know just really short little things um maybe they registered maybe they didn't i don't know but i was i was trying to you know keep her going um the lights so the pace lights on the inside were set for for flat um so we needed to stay on those lights as long as we could uh to give her a good chance so the set of athletes in front the the shield their job was to follow the lights and not pay attention to
what was going on behind them just keep the formation perfect and then if faith can stay in this pocket it's it's the least wind possible that she'll have to face I was kind of a spotter where if at any point a gap started to open up in front of her between her and that shield, I would slot in to provide a physical connection to that shield and have like an aerodynamic effect.
And also to give her a mental attachment.
You know, if you've ever been in a race before, if a gap opens in front of you, it doesn't feel very good.
It's kind of discouraging.
So my job was if she ever started falling back a little, I had to pop in, uh, make sure that that attachment was still there.
That, that physical and mental attachment was still there.
And at that point, I had to keep checking over my shoulder to make sure that she was still there because at that point, it wasn't guaranteed that she was still running the optimal pace.
Eventually, she started falling back more and one of the other pacers, Cooper, his job at that point was to come around me and then we reformed into a new bubble around Faith and the shield broke off and stepped off and we created a new, the then optimal aerodynamic bubble around her.
And at that point, I came next to Faith again and Cooper was now running blind in front of her.
So about every, I don't know, 20 meters, I was telling Cooper to speed up or slow down or keep it there based on how Faith was looking and what she was feeling.
So I'm yelling at Cooper and I'm also turning to Faith and telling her to stay on it, that we're still on the lights, it's still in range, we can still move up.
And we did that up to the end.
And then, yeah, with about 100 meters to go, we all slid out to give Faith the moment of kicking at the very end by herself.
But yeah, it was very, very interesting.
And my mind was not on running as much as monitoring and calling audibles and stuff.
stuff. But it worked well.
Well, now it's going to be very fun to go back and watch it again.
I watched it live. But now having all of this intel, I can't wait to go watch it again and be like, oh, yeah, I'm picking up on that now.
That last 100 meters where you all sort of drifted out into lanes two and beyond and you were all just screaming and cheering for her.
It was so incredible to watch. Was that by design that we're all going to move out?
We're all just going to give it everything we got in the final stretch?
Yeah. So nothing in that thing was uh, like it was not planned for.
So any audible that could be called was only things that were approved.
So, um, we had several finish scenarios that we had practiced.
Um, and yeah, it really depended on how faith was looking, how close we were to the lights.
Um, if we were still attached to that shield and, uh, things like that.
So the, the main thing on the final a hundred meters was was that no one crossed the finish line before Faith.
So that would have been terrible.
That would have looked horrible.
So the front shield group had peeled off on the backstretch. So then it was just the smaller shield that we had created.
And with 100 to go, our instructions were to slide out and encourage her through the line.
And definitely with 25 meters to go, shut it down so that she was the one crossing the line.
And that was basically what we did.
you know she again I had a front row seat to all this so I don't know how well you can tell on the broadcast but the second lap a gap started to open a little bit and she worked really hard to close it down in the third lap it started to open up a little bit more and she worked really hard to close it down and then about halfway through the third lap she had given a ton of energy and a gap started to open up and that was about when we started changing formation transformation um going into a lap to go she was really paying the price of those you know re -accelerations re -commitments um to stay
attached to the lights and to the pace and yeah going into 200 meters to go i i don't know how well she knew but i knew that the target was kind of out of reach and i i was trying to encourage her to still give it you know everything that she could uh to try to still run as fast as possible even if the a goal was out of reach which, you know, you still do something pretty special.
So, um, that last 200 meters, that was really, really hard on her.
Like she, she just had given everything at that point.
And I think all of the pacers there and probably everyone that watches it as well can think of moments where you've given everything, but you're still not at the finish line.
So I think we can all empathize with that feeling.
And, and she had given everything to a very lofty goal.
Uh, so, So, you know, watching her still give everything all the way to the line was pretty cool.
And I think even though, yeah, she didn't get the A goal, I think it was still a very successful event.
And I mean, it would have been very inspiring if she broke four.
I think it's almost as inspiring to see someone go and come up short because that's just human.
You know, like that's that's just how it is.
In my career, I've come up short way more often than I've been successful.
That's just the nature of the sport.
Faith might be a slight outlier because she is the best in the world and the world record holder, so maybe she's more successful than comes up short.
But for most people, when you do something, there's a very real chance that you come up short and especially if it's a big, real goal like that.
So, you know, to see the light slip away, to feel, you know, that dejection, but just like that feeling of your A goal is out of reach all of a sudden, you know, how hard do you fight to still make it a really, really good day?
And she fought to the end, which, you know, that's what everyone wants out of themselves.
self. Yeah. I love what you just said about not hitting the goal might even be more inspiring than just knocking it out of the park on the first try.
What was the energy, the vibes?
Was it a celebratory night?
Was it like, we're kind of bummed, a little bit of everything?
What was it like for you?
And did you all hang out after?
It was a little bit of both.
So right after the Pacers, we really didn't know what to do right after because faith kind of collapsed to the the ground and we saw the clock and we're like oh i mean that's a new world record uh but it wasn't the a goal so we were kind of waiting to see what faith how faith was going to respond uh you know if she popped up and was going crazy we would have done the same and if she had her head down we would have left her alone uh she was somewhere in the middle i think um she was happy that she had given it everything and given it you know tried something crazy um i think she was a little disappointed
to not have really challenged that four minute barrier.
Um, but she was pretty upbeat and, you know, not too long after she was talking about going for it again.
Um, I don't know, I don't know how she feels about it now, but in the moments right after she was, uh, well, a person that was there was Elliot Chogi, um, the best marathoner ever.
And when he tried to break two hours, he came up short the first time.
And then the second time he got it.
So she was saying things like, Hey, Elliot came up short the first time, you know, maybe, maybe I give it another go.
So yeah, we'll see her.
I think the sports science team was, was happy that they, you know, put her in the best situation possible to try to break for.
I think her management team was happy that this whole thing was set up for her and she gave it everything.
And I think the pay squad was happy with how we supported her.
We all hung out after there was kind of a dinner celebration thing after um nike rented out a restaurant so we had a dinner and a toast and stuff and um it was slightly muted you know i i think if faith would have broken four people probably wouldn't go nuts um but it was still like an upbeat positive uh atmosphere um nobody was hanging their heads or anything it was still i think very successful in everyone's mind um and uh faith had to get everybody she she just raced the same weekend i did at pre -classic and broke the world record in the 1500 so uh you know she's still running really well better
than anyone else ever had has um so yeah the the atmosphere it was a little bit of a mixed bag after um and i think anyone watching like yeah it would have been cool to see the the barrier go down but um maybe it'll make it more special when it eventually does.
I think eventually there'll be someone out there, maybe Faith, maybe someone else that has another go at the barrier.
So we'll see. And is it safe to assume that if you get the call to be, whether it's a right -hand man, a shield person, or somewhere in the spoiler, are we saying yes to that call again?
Yeah. Well, as long as I don't have something crazy going on, like the Olympics or something, I don't think they plan it during that.
Yeah. It'd be fun to go and help again.
I'm sure that they learn some things that they can optimize for next time um you know ultimately i think i think if we would have paced the race for 404 i think there would have been a high likelihood that faith could run 404 but that wasn't the point of this whole event the point was to try to break four and when you have a swing like that like there's not much room for for error the margin is so slim, um, that if you, you know, if something isn't perfect, uh, you fall off quite a bit and, you know, six seconds, depending on who you ask is either a ton of time or not that much time, but, uh,
she swung for the fences and, um, it would have been a lot safer to try to pace it for four Oh four, four Oh five and try to run four Oh four, four Oh five.
But I, I think that just wasn't exciting enough for her, you know, she already has the world record. Um, so to just just lower it a little bit maybe wasn't as exciting as trying to get under this pretty special barrier well it was so fun to watch as a fan of the sport it was awesome and loved seeing you as a part of it this episode of the alley on the run show is brought to you by boulder thon i am so psyched to share that this september i will be going to boulder colorado for the first time ever and i'm doing it for boulder thon i've wanted to go to boulder for my entire adult life And now I
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so when it comes to your racing right now what are you most either excited by or motivated by we've talked a lot about prs we've talked about world records we've talked about medals what gets that glimmer in your eye yeah my the biggest thing this year for us is the world championships um and it's cool they're in tokyo i was in the 2021 tokyo olympics and uh it was during covid so there are no fans it was dead quiet um there was no really like social energy or atmosphere because everyone is afraid of getting covid and getting sent home from the olympics uh i never set foot in tokyo uh we we were on an island the athletes
were in a village on an island in tokyo bay so i could see tokyo from the window but there was like a 20 -foot fence around and then coast guard ships around to make sure we didn't like swim off to actual all i saw was the stadium in the olympic village um which i i mean i it's incredible that that olympics was pulled off that it still happened i thought for sure it would have gotten canceled uh so i i don't don't i don't want to make it seem like i'm complaining but it was definitely a different olympic experience than uh what i had in paris so um it'll be cool it's back so the the world championships
are back in the same stadium that the Olympics were at.
Uh, so it'll be fun to go there and, uh, hopefully, hopefully be there and, um, have fans and, uh, yeah, I got two bronze medals at, at the last games.
So world championships, try to upgrade those medals a little bit and, um, see what I can do there.
It's, it's really fun to run fast and see what your potential is.
Like, you know, where's your limit, uh, time -wise, but racing is the most fun thing.
um and so there's so many good athletes in the world and they're all only getting better and the depth improves every single year so I know it's gonna be really hard but uh yeah the Tokyo World Championships are my main target get back on the podium uh hopefully a little further up the podium what does it take to bring out your salty side do you like you just seem so nice and kind and like you're rooting for everyone you just seem like such a good guy do you have any pet peeves does anything bother you I mean uh I'm I'm pretty steady um I mean as far as like racing goes like yeah everyone's very
friendly but I think I mentioned this before you know there's no one I'd rather see metal than me even even my friends in the sport it that's just how it is like Like I want to win more than I want to see anyone else win, which maybe sounds a little selfish, but that's just how it is.
And so, yeah, in a race, like there's race etiquette and race, you know, norms where, you know, how you race is kind of standardized.
So, you know, there's some people out there that are very aggressive, that are notorious for like pushing or tripping and stuff.
uh that's rather annoying especially when these races are pretty consequential and finite um so that type of stuff annoys me you know people people blatantly cheating uh you know that unfortunately i mean i hate to bring this up but like doping is a reality in endurance sport um people know it in cycling uh maybe not as much in running but it's it's present uh there's always always people getting popped there's and and it's a strange feeling I I really didn't like didn't wind me up as much early on in my career just because I wasn't good enough to compete with some of the people that were doping
uh but you know over the past several years I look back and I'm like man you know I was training and racing until my body broke down and this guy that beat me at this race he was just cheating you know it's a it's pretty disheartening it doesn't feel good so um that type of stuff just winds everybody up it's it's a bad feeling it just it's always going to be present in the sport unfortunately um that's just reality but yeah when you start losing positions or you know losing races and then you know it makes you train harder you work harder then you look back and you know someone has received a ban by that point
you're just like man you know i was given everything and especially if you got injured from the training or something thing he's like man I went till my bones cracked and this guy was just cheating yeah so that stuff winds me up all right that's fair yeah those are those are fair gripes yeah yep what are you proud of in your career so far oh uh probably the olympic medals um in their dusty boxes grant in their dusty boxes well the medals at least aren't dusty they're protected by the box um yeah I mean that's it's just the pinnacle of our sport um nothing's bigger than the olympics in track so um
you know track is a very accessible sport you don't need much to get into it uh so there's not many barriers to entry so when you do well you know that you were competing against the best in the world um and to say like hey there's this very accessible thing and i'm the top three top three in the world at this at a time where everybody's prioritizing that race so you can't even say like oh this person wasn't peaking like this person whatever you know everyone pulls up to the Olympics in as best shape as they can and you know to be top three in two different events events that usually the U .S. isn't
super strong in was really really special to me so yeah going into my pro career I hope to make an Olympic team that was one of my goals and so to surpass that and get Olympic medals is that that's the highlight of my career right now and the first American man to do what you did to medal in those two events so you're also making and breaking history along the way.
Yeah, trying. And in the US, especially on the men's side right now, seeing a big renaissance in distance running, which is fun to be a part of.
Yeah, leading the way.
Well, I could easily listen to you talk forever because I love everything that you have to say, but in the spirit of being respectful of your time, we have a sprint to the finish round to bring things home.
Final kick, everyone's out of lane one.
What would your last meal on Earth be?
be um what probably uh you know like the what's the Japanese word for like a tasting menu oh I don't know the word but I support the answer all right there's there's a word for it and uh I love sushi so probably that like a chef's tasting menu of sushi I think that'd be my answer too bunch of courses yeah I'd go for that great choice favorite movie Right now, my favorite movie is probably Memento.
It's kind of dark, but the way that it's told, the storytelling in it is really, really just captivating.
You can watch that movie like 10 times and kind of notice new things every time.
Okay. Favorite TV show?
Probably Avatar, The Last Airbender, the cartoon.
Always liked that show.
What food reminds you of your childhood?
hood uh probably spaghetti my mom would make that for me like before a race when i was a kid um you know carbo loading it up i'll go spaghetti first thing you'd do if you won the lottery uh contact a really good accountant yeah again i think that's my answer too get a really good financial advisor yeah and then maybe have some fun but mostly some investments window seat or aisle seat aisle who would you want to play you in a movie uh i don't know skip i don't think i would like that i don't know all right fair all right since you mentioned spaghetti and maybe that's your answer maybe not what is your
favorite pasta shape probably rigatoni i feel like a nice a nice rigatoni if it's cut right and kind of is like rough it it it's versatile enough like that that it you can use it with a lot of different sauces but also So it's not as like unique that you kind of get like, it gets old, you know, like if you have bow tie every, every single time, like it's a little, I respect how much thought has gone into this answer.
This makes me very happy.
Where are you a regular?
Uh, I mean the gym and the track, I feel like that's every runner's answer.
It's either a coffee shop or the track.
I'll go with, um, if anyone's ever been to main street park city, they probably know this spot.
No name saloon. what was your very first job my first ever job was working at a factory in flint michigan assembling little pieces of hardware i would make these little door pulls out of metal i that was my first job i don't even know oh a door pull like that goes like up the hinge yeah or like a hinge or like okay like if you have drawers in your uh your kitchen like the little thing you you pull on I love that making those things I will try to think of you every time I open a door in my office now yeah there you go when you were little what did you want to be when you grew up pro athlete nice
but a soccer player oh yeah this is better equally cool first concert best concert my first ever concert was usher at the palace of auburn hills in michigan um best concert concert honestly an underrated best concert I went to was one uh at Stanford when I was in college a guy named Jeremiah came who's kind of like an R &B hip -hop artist but he was the best singer I've ever heard and he sounded so much better than his like reported tracks I was blown away because I thought he would sound way worse uh like I had little to no faith in him I wouldn't listen to like much Jeremiah but like I was just
super surprised at how good of a singer he was it was and it was really, really impressive.
I like that answer.
Yeah. Favorite ice cream flavor?
Probably like Oreo.
I feel like that's usually pretty safe.
There's a new gelato shop that just opened up in Park City that I love and they have a strawberry rhubarb sorbet.
I've been going for that lately.
Nice. If you could take a class in anything, what would it be?
Probably an art class.
class i'm i'm really bad at art and i'm not i'm not very good at the creative stuff my girlfriend's way better at those things so it'd be fun to uh to work on that a little bit so some sort of an art class favorite candy uh super sour scandinavian swimmers from trader joe's nice yeah if you could go for a run with anyone who would it be uh it's tough i don't probably like a world leader or something that'd be kind of cool um i wouldn't say it before this year i would have said kipchoge but i went for a run with him in paris and that was pretty cool um actually i'm gonna i'm gonna go with michael
jordan i feel like oh yeah entertaining and fun great answer yeah and and like objectively i'd be better at running than him so he's trash i love it in one word how does running make you feel happy last thing i need give everyone listening a reason to go for a run because it makes you feel good i love it it might not right at the beginning if you haven't run in a while the first couple runs suck like that's that's just how it's going to be but if you can get over the hump going for a run is like the most natural thing you can do after you get a few runs in and your knees stop hurting and stuff
once you get used to it man there's no feeling like, you know, let go out for a run and power yourself around with your own body and, you know, push your limits and just get out there.
And yeah, it's a good feeling.
I love it, Grant. You are a dream.
Thank you so much for coming on the show and chatting.
You're awesome. We will all be rooting for you heading into World Championships and beyond.
Take good care of those medals.
Take good care of yourself.
Thanks, Allie. Thank you so much for being here for this episode of the the alley on the run show with my guest grant fisher he is just so kind thoughtful i love this conversation i will be honest i was having a super hard chemo day when grant and i recorded i was not in my best headspace and he pulled me right out of that and this was just a really enjoyable pleasant conversation so grant thank you so much for doing this and thanks to everyone for listening Thank you as well to New Balance.
Thank you to Boulderthon. Thank you to everyone who supports this show and makes the work I do possible.
I know I've been a little more MIA than usual.
I'll be back just getting through some stuff.
Thanks for supporting.
I love you. I appreciate you.
You've got this. You're doing great.
And thank you for joining me on the run.
