Hey weirdos, it's Ash.
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Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena.
And I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
we had a whole plan where we were gonna say hey morbid this is weirdos and then just not comment on it and act like it was just a big lol between us even though we talked about it five seconds ago I forgot quite frankly quite literally seconds before the intro quite frankly and quite literally seconds before the god damn intro retro you know we're wily up in here we're wily up in here it's crazy this is one of those weeks where i don't fucking know what day it is yeah it's been you know we've been working on i think we mentioned in the last episode or maybe a couple episodes that we're like kind
of renovating our studio space a little bit it's so much better and it was like real up in arms for a little while like it just it looked like a bomb went off in here and well we had to be out of here for a a little bit.
Yeah we couldn't be in here because they were doing some stuff so we have been putting it back together just me, Ash and Mikey Ash lightly.
I don't really sign on to the manual labor part of things.
I don't know if you heard me go Ash and Mikey I'm here for moral support baby Mikey and I have put it back together and Ash has pointed.
Yeah and I put a couple of frames together.
That's true she put put a couple of frames oh wait no fuck that oh she put a shelf up two two shelves two shelves yes i got a fucking splinter in the process and that's exactly why i don't do shit like this and i took the splinter out she did it was very impressive because it was well actually i thought it was small but you thought it was big it was a pretty big split but it was like it was like a small like it was thin small yeah that's that's the dimensions of my splinter yeah exactly but yeah so it was just a little crazy in here like we were just trying to put things back together sorry if you
have my stomach grumbling i got you a baby you get a little work that was my yeah i don't know why did you eat your bagel i did i ate my bagel but my stomach's like not enough i don't know she's grumbly this morning because all of her twist pieces and i said shh not yet no bitch not yet you can have some water uh but yeah Yeah.
Moral of this whole very long, very kind of stupid story of mine is that it's been a little crazy in here and now it's finally almost completely done and put together.
So we're feeling very exhausted, but very happy.
Yeah. We painted it a different color.
I think, did we talk to you guys about this?
It was red before and that exhausts you.
Now it's blue. It's tranquil.
It's safe. It's good.
It's very tranquil in here.
I love it. I look forward to being in here.
Yes. It's such a difference.
Previously, not so much. Yeah.
Because of the color not the company exactly and it's like that you know it can there's a lot going on at all times so we need a tranquil cover color color do it with me now i'm not to chill everything out and make us feel good and we also painted the molding which to me just says fucking chic bitch yeah when you paint the molding in a room you know that's what this episode is about now.
We're just going to talk home design.
This is our new HGTV show.
No, we were talking the other day.
It feels velvety. It does feel velvety.
Sorry, I cut you off entirely.
That's okay. I was like, anyways, we were talking.
Anyway. It feels velvety.
But next, I think I want to do an HGTV show with you.
I love that you'll...
Next, I'll just do an HGTV show.
Yeah. Manifest it. That's how that works.
Wouldn't that be so much fun?
It would be fun. Let's do it.
HGTV, are you listening?
Let's go, girls. I bet they are.
I bet HGTV is listening as a whole, as a company.
Well, you know what?
Speaking of careers, this actually, this segues pretty nicely into what we're going to be talking about today.
Because we're going to be talking about the career girl murders.
And I say it segues because this whole, this is a really horrific case.
workplace and they it kind of ushered in this whole thought process of like the career girl meaning the girl coming out of the 1950s where like women were like you know what I don't have to get married like I don't have to get married right away like I can get my own thing going become independent kind of stand on my own two feet and then I can decide if I want to get married like i'm a career girl so it's like people this whole like notion that society was putting in everyone's heads of like women you have to either choose to you know like like you got to get married like right away like out
of school that was all kind of going away and then this happened and it like shook a lot of people because it made people think well wait a second is this what's gonna happen like all of a sudden it kind of like threw people backwards where it was like oh well you know women are vulnerable and see what happens when they strike out on their own kind kind of thing.
And they kind of blamed it on that instead of just being like, well, no, some, you know, some assholes are assholes.
Right. And we should make sure that we stop them from being assholes.
It's not women are vulnerable, it's people are depraved.
Yeah, exactly. And it's like, let's concentrate on that, and maybe stopping that first. So this takes place in New York City.
New York. And it takes place in the early 60s.
This was on the afternoon of August August 28th, 1963, Patricia Tolis returned home from work to her apartment in New York City, and she found it ransacked.
It was nothing like she had left it that morning.
And she also ended up, and we're going to get into the details of this, don't worry, but she found a bloody knife in the bathroom.
And her roommates, Emily Hoffert and Janice Wiley, were nowhere to be found initially.
She, obviously, she was young, like they were in their 20s, like they were in New York City living together the three of them she came into this apartment saw it ransacked found like took a quick glance of like what the fuck was going on didn't venture super far in because I wouldn't smart yeah like she was like uh I'm gonna call someone I don't know what's going on still be here so again the horrific details are to follow and we will find out that um Emily Hoffert and Janice Wiley were in that apartment she just did not see them initially um but the murders of of Emily Hoffert and Janice Wiley
shined a light also on top when it comes to like the career thing we're going to talk about that as well but it also shined a light on how race and class can influence a police investigation and a jury verdict especially back then and how justice can be delayed or diverted completely in the interest of efficiency and the illusion of safety safety not actual safety not actually taking bad people off the streets just giving everyone the illusion that we caught the bad guy that's so fucked up and especially in the 60s at this point it was like we're gonna catch a bad guy and we're gonna make you
think that this is the perfect picture of what a bad guy is when in reality the bad guy was something totally different of course they were like look over there yeah look at this like everybody's fine don't worry about it which Which is really fucked up in this case, too, in any case.
But in this case, too, because they were kind of being like, okay, we got the bad guy.
We're going to take him off the streets.
Everything's fine. Everybody calm down.
Don't worry about it, ladies.
Like, you don't have to worry about getting murdered in your apartment anymore.
Leave your doors unlocked.
It's fine. In reality, they had not removed any of the dangers, and they were putting everybody at risk.
I don't see it. Like, how do you not think about that?
Like, what they were doing back then is saying, let's put somebody up for this and make it seem like everything is okay.
How are you not thinking like, but everything's not okay?
But there's still a bad guy out there who did this.
This guy is still prowling around.
And they must have felt some sense of like, okay, we did it.
But it's like, that's so fake.
Yeah, they just wanted the pats on the back and they wanted everyone to shut up about it.
I can't imagine. And race plays a role in this as well.
And so they were just like, well, whatever.
Fuck it. Yeah, whatever, we did it.
And this is going to be a two -parter because there's a lot going on in this case, and I think a whole part needs to be totally talking about how fucked up the investigation and the trial and who ends up actually coming forward as the person.
That's a whole thing in and of itself, so it needs some attention paid to it.
Now, let's talk about the victims here.
Yeah. Janice Lamb Wiley was born March 6, 1942, in Evanston, Illinois.
She was one of two children.
Her parents were Max and Isabel Wiley.
Not long after she was born, the family relocated to Manhattan, New York.
And Max was actually working as an advertising exec and eventually transitioned into television production.
Most notably, he was the co -creator of The Flying Nun from 1967 to 1970.
Oh, wow. So he was doing really well.
I guess so. And as the daughter of a very powerful and highly respected ad executive, Janice was raised in considerable privilege, obviously.
She attended the finest schools, the finest summer camps, received tutoring from very expensive tutors.
She got everything she needed.
And from an early age, it was apparent that Janice was a very confident, very self -assured person as well.
So it was all like – it seemed like she was raised with anything she needed and everything she could ever want.
But she really became like such a unique person in and of herself.
Okay. Which is really interesting because sometimes when you hear about like high society kids, you know what I mean?
Like they end up all just being very – Spoiled.
Spoiled and yeah, like having – yeah, exactly.
Silver spoon kind of thing.
You know, and she didn't seem like that was who she was.
She had what she needed at her fingertips and she utilized it to, like, project herself forward. Yeah, to kind of, like, just be her own person.
That's great. I feel like that probably, like, it seems like she was raised well that way.
You know what I mean?
Like, it seems like they kind of put that into her as a person, which is nice.
And as she got older, she would find herself all the time the center of attention.
She was beautiful, like, truly beautiful.
And she was beautiful inside and out.
She loved hosting and attending parties.
Like, she was such a, like, girl of the time.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, she just wanted to be out there everywhere, meeting all kinds of people.
She was said to have dated, quote, more than the average woman at the time.
Oh, fuck off. And she had, and also Janice dated both men and women.
Hell yeah! Which at the time, obviously, and it also plays a little bit of a role at a time when they were investigating the investigations.
I can only imagine.
Investigating the investigation, I just said.
Investigating the crime.
I didn't even catch that.
I caught it inside of myself.
But she had, you know, this beautiful blonde hair.
She had stunning, what was described as like startling green eyes.
She's so pretty. I'm looking at a picture right now.
And someone once described her as the kind of woman, quote, who surrounded, overwhelmed you at first meeting.
She had a sensuality and animalism about her.
like so she was just like people were like you met her took one look at her she opened her mouth and talked and you were just like shot off your feet like an enigma yeah and it was likely this confidence that allowed her to the confidence that she was able to build through her entire life here it allowed her to strike out on her own and make a career for herself as an independent woman yeah that's great and again this was actually pretty unusual for young women at the time So when she was just out of college, she found work as a research assistant at Newsweek, where she and several other young
women at the time spent their days clipping articles and pasting them into huge reference books for journalists higher up in the magazine to use for their stories.
And again, she didn't really need the income.
She came from a lot of money.
She did it because she wanted to do it.
She wanted to work, and she wanted to make a name for herself.
Good for her. And to Janice, the job at Newsweek was even more than an income because she really didn't need it.
It was another opportunity for socialization.
She loved being around people.
According to journalist Bernard Lefkowitz, I believe is how you say it, quote, in a little more than five months working for Newsweek, Janice had become the office live wire.
She relieved the tedium of routine with her raucous humor, with her unabashed theatricality, with her blunderbuss candor.
That's the best sentence ever.
And Janice, again, didn't need the income.
But it also, the income did mean that she could prove to her father, especially, that she could take care of herself.
That she didn't need to rely on him.
Like, Daddy, look at me.
Yeah. And specifically, she wanted to be able to move out to her own apartment and take care of it, not worry about him having to pay for the rent.
She wanted to pay for the rent.
She really wanted that independence.
Yeah. And so she ended up sharing this apartment with two other women.
So she was like, I know you can probably buy me a place and pay for it or help me buy my own place.
But you know what? I'm going to find two friends.
We're going to live together because I can afford this with my own shit.
Which I was like, hell yeah, Janice.
That's really awesome.
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Now, a few weeks after taking the job with Newsweek, Janice's friend Pat Tolis asked her to share an apartment with her on the Upper East Side, and it was just a few blocks away from where Janice had actually grown up, so she was very familiar with the area.
And she knew, because she was like a lifelong New Yorker at this point, she knew that they definitely could have found a cheaper apartment somewhere else, not on the Upper East Side.
But the Upper East Side is a nice area.
It's a, well, that's the thing.
It's a very nice area, so she's like, um, I'm pretty sure we could find something a a little cheaper but you know what this neighborhood is actually really safe like i grew up here so let's spend a little more money and we'll live in a safer place worth the cost that's so sad like knowing what ends up happening right it really is because she that that extra money bought her some kind of peace of mind exactly you would think you know yeah exactly so because of of the added safety kind of situation she agreed happily to move into the apartment um 3c at 57 east 88th street and it was managed it was like
a very highly managed complex and doctors dentists other professionals were living in there so it was like a very like they felt safe it was a well to do apartment building and they were paying 208 dollars per month on rent and remember that was was expensive honey that was it was a different time honey could you imagine it was a different time now it was a here that janice met emily hoffert who was a friend and former college roommate of pat's not janice's okay um who was looking for a place to stay just for like temporarily for a short time um because she was trying to work out like a longer
term plan for herself she just needed somewhere to kind of take a beat yeah and emily grew up in um adina minnesota soda i hope i'm saying that right a suburb just outside minneapolis and after graduating from high school she ended up going out east to pursue a teaching degree at smith college and after a year of graduate courses at tufts university fuck these were brilliant women really and a couple months teaching at a private progressive high school in newton massachusetts newton i used to work in newton uh which is in case you were wondering a suburb of boston yeah Emily decided that New England wasn't
right for her, which I was like, okay, Emily, all right, that's fine.
Emily. That's fine.
You know, she was a New York early.
Yeah. Two very different places.
Yeah. And in the fall of 1963, she relocated to New York, where she just kind of like went into a few short -term rentals with friends, just trying to look for work, figuring out what she wanted to do next.
And after bouncing from shared living arrangements, like one to the other, Emily's friend Pat Tolis was like hey come stay with me and my roommate Janice for a little while you know until you find something more permanent so Emily was like that's amazing thank you so much so in late July 1964 she moved in with Pat and Janice so as far as roommates went Emily Hoffert could not have been more different than Janice like they were very different people but they got along like this wasn't to say they like like, you know, butted heads or anything.
So Janice, like we said, was very outgoing, very social, like, just everywhere always.
And Emily was, like, much more quiet, reserved, shy.
Janice was this tall, like, bombshell blonde, like, by, you know, by social standards of the time, very conventionally attractive.
Sure. While Emily was, and this, like, upset me because look up these two women.
They're both beautiful.
They're both beautiful.
But Emily was described as basically plain.
And I was like, I think she was beautiful.
I don't think she was plain at all.
Yeah. And she was like five foot three, dark brunette hair.
She was described as having a very pale complexion, which I was like, easy, everyone.
Easy on that. She's beautiful, okay?
Pale as gorgeous. And she had glasses, which is very like the she's all that of the 50s.
It's like she had glasses, so she wasn't as bombshell as anybody else.
Hey, shout out to Freddie Prinze.
To this I say, like, fuck beauty standards, because they were both gorgeous.
They were both just very uniquely gorgeous people in their own way.
I agree 100%. Both beautiful, both smart, both capable.
Just want to put that out there, because a lot of times Emily gets put down as, like, plain.
She had glasses, and it's like, okay, they were both beautiful.
Get a grip, everybody.
everybody but again too Emily was friendly sweet very smart like just like Janice they were both and that's why they got along like they it seems like they appreciated the differences in each other yeah like I think Emily kind of like looked at Janice and was like fucking Janice like you're a great great lady and it's like and Janice was like here's my like very reliable like wonderful full friend, Emily.
You know, like they just, it worked.
And Emily's personality, how sweet she was and friendly and like very capable, it helped her in her professional life because she was an elementary school teacher.
And in fact, their professional pursuits were probably like the biggest thing that they had in common together, that they were both very driven.
They had both intentionally put off any serious romantic relationships or marriage to build their own careers for themselves, something that the press would make a great deal about after their deaths.
When in reality, these were just two driven young women.
Right. That's really as far as it went.
Now, despite their differences in personality, like I said, they got along very well.
But again, Emily, this was temporary for her.
She never intended to stay at 57 East 88th Street for very long.
Okay. Which makes this even more horrific.
Yeah. Tragic. Now, according to her her friend Clark Montgomery, Emily had, quote, a fairly clear list of priorities, get a job teaching, preferably in a suburban school system, move at the end of August into an apartment on Park Avenue and 37th Street with two Smith classmates, and save enough money for a trip to Europe next summer.
So she was like, let's go.
Like, doing it. While her goals were ambitious, Emily was committed and by the end of August, she had begun packing what few belongings she had at this apartment and she was going to be moving, she was starting to move them to Park Avenue new.
So she had already...
She literally started the process.
She was starting the process when this happened.
On the morning of August 28th, Emily had gone by the apartment to pack up the last of her belongings and say goodbye to her friends, completely unaware that this would be the last time she spoke to anyone.
Wow. Which makes this even more horrific.
Now, just as Janice, Emily and Pat were kind of establishing their independence and starting out on their professional congressional paths, like I was talking about before, the nation as a whole was undergoing a kind of social identity crisis with regard to race, gender, sexuality.
You know, this was a time of like immense, like what the fuck is going on?
Lots and lots of change.
Everybody figuring out that like, we don't all fit into this box.
Yeah. It doesn't all have to go like, leave it to beaver way.
Exactly. Coming out of the fifties being like, what the fuck was that?
Right. Like, you know, so the civil rights and feminist movements, sometimes referred to as the women's movement were gaining traction, very much so in urban areas, and they were directly challenging those attitudes that we were just talking about and the long -held beliefs about what was appropriate and acceptable in social spaces.
People were really striking out in different directions.
For women, especially younger women, the idea of marrying young and immediately starting a family was no longer looking like a super attractive option.
Some people did. That's the beauty beauty of this movement it was like do what's right if you did think this is what I want to do I want to get married I want to have children I want to be a homemaker I want to be there I want to cook dinner for my family I don't want to go out and do anything else like I want to do this then hell yeah it was all about what was empowering to you as a woman but if you don't want to do that then hell yeah queen you're both queens no matter what you choose to do what you want to do and And that's the key word, the choice.
You get to choose. Right.
And whatever you choose and you are happy with it and you feel successful and you feel productive, fuck yeah, queen.
Right. That's the whole point.
Right. Whatever you want to do, nothing is the wrong choice here.
But for women, you know, that idea of marrying younger and all that, that was becoming less of like the you have to do this at this point.
And many young women like Janice and Emily were like, you know what, I'm going to put it off for a little while and I'm going to work on this.
And according to women's studies scholar Marilyn Johnson, this, quote, produced a panic about career girls and crime that reinforced notions of women's vulnerability at a time when young women were enjoying greater autonomy and visibility.
Now, for the better part of the first half of the 20th century, the crime rate in New York City had actually remained relatively low, which kind of made everybody feel a little safe throughout the city.
Like, nothing was really happening, so why wouldn't I feel safe?
but by mid century the murder rate had been slowly rising not a boom but slowly rising uh it went from four homicides per 100 ,000 residents in the early 1950s to 7 .6 per 100 ,000 in the early 1960s doesn't sound like a lot but it's a jump it is and it's a difference so either way that has to to be looked at.
And again, notable uptick in the grand scheme of things in violent crime.
And even despite this, Janice felt really comfortable living in the neighborhood she'd grown up in.
So she was like, I've grown up here.
And she told her roommates, like, don't worry.
Nothing happens here.
Like, I grew up here.
I know this place like the back of my hand.
She's like, nothing ever happens here.
Oh, that's awful. Which is, you know, like, why wouldn't you feel safe?
Like, that's the thing, right?
Now, on the morning of August 28th, Pat Tolis was rushing to get ready for work while 21 -year -old Janice slept in and 23 -year -old Emily was in the kitchen making coffee.
Now after finishing an orange and drinking the last of the coffee, Pat rinsed the cup, took the trash out to the garbage chute, listened for the click of the automatic bolt that would lock the door behind her, and she heard it and was on her way, and Emily followed Pat's exit a short time later.
And after loading a few items in the car that she she was actually borrowing from her roommate's sister.
She drove the short distance to Ann Rosenberg's apartment in Riverside to return the car.
Ann Rosenberg was who she was borrowing the car from.
So she was going back to the apartment to drop it off, you know.
And apparently like they kind of just like sat with each other.
Emily and Ann had a cup of coffee and then they ended up going their respective ways.
Sure. Now, Pat was at her desk at the Time Life Company when her phone rang a little afternoon and it was Janice's mother.
and Janice's mother was calling to ask whether Pat had heard from Janice that morning because she said someone from Newsweek had called to ask where Janice was and why she hadn't come to work that day.
Oh, no. As far as Pat knew, Janice was still asleep when she left the apartment that morning, but she remembered.
She was like, you know what?
She did mention that she was maybe going to travel down to a march on Washington that was happening.
Okay. So she was like, you know what?
Maybe she ended up doing that.
I don't know if she called the job.
I don't know. Maybe she got caught up there.
Yeah, like who knows, but she didn't really tell anyone else about that.
I think I'm the only one she mentioned it to.
So she was like, you know what, maybe that's where she's gone.
But whatever the case, Janice would have definitely left a note.
She was like, so I'm sure she left something about it.
And it doesn't sound like she was the type to no -call, no -show.
No, she really wasn't.
She wasn't irresponsible.
So Pat promised to call Mrs. Wiley as soon as she got home.
She was like, I'm sure I'll find a note when I get there and I'll let you know.
So she was a little concerned.
like she was like, it was just like nothing outright, but she was like, something was a little off here.
And so Pat called one of Emily's new roommates to see if Emily had arrived at the new apartment yet.
Because she was like, I just want to make sure everybody's good.
Yeah. And the girl told Pat she hadn't seen Emily at all that day.
So she was concerned.
Definitely. But she said she wasn't yet alarmed at this point, but she was like, huh.
That makes this weirder.
Something's off, like something's a little off.
But Pat went about her day as normal because she was like, you know what?
We'll figure this out later.
I'm sure they're wherever they need to be.
And she got home around 6 .30 p .m. and when she reached the front door of their third floor apartment, remember it's on the third floor, Pat unlocked the door, which was still locked, walked in.
Nothing seemed unusual when she first walked through the door, but when she reached the kitchen, the service door that led out to the garbage chute, the one that she She heard click behind her.
Yes. That was a jar.
Huh. Even though, again, she had heard it lock when she left for work.
So things were becoming even more alarming when she reached the bedroom she shared with Janice.
She found it in shambles.
Oh, no. Like someone had torn through that room wildly.
Clothes, shoes, papers, everything was scattered around the room.
And two suitcases, which were always stored on a shelf in the closet.
They were never taken out unless they were going somewhere.
were open on the bed.
Huh. Like there's no reason they would have been there.
And on the other side of the room, the drawers of both dressers had been pulled out and all the contents were scattered all over the floor.
And that must have been frightening no matter what, but then you think you're seeing all of your personal belongings scattered and thrown about.
Yep. There were hair curlers, half -empty packs of cigarettes, and a pile of pennies on the floor too.
Now, she was like, we've definitely been burglarized, so that's terrifying so she left the room and didn't notice the heap of sheets lying just on one side of the bed okay made her way into the bigger of the apartment's two bathrooms the light was on in the bathroom when she went in there which again was weird and pat immediately noticed that there was a large 12 inch carving knife just sitting on the edge of the sink oh my god and so she's looking at the knife and she's like why the fuck is that in the bathroom and And then she notices that there are streaks of blood on the handle, just on the handle, like
somebody had rinsed the blade.
And was like, oh, no. And then she said her immediate thought was, oh, no, Janice has slashed her wrists.
Hmm. Which, like, I'm not sure why.
Maybe that was just like, what else could have...
I don't know what's happening here.
Yeah. Because she said she was just panicked.
Like, this is panic.
And in that moment, nothing made sense to her.
So she was like, that didn't make sense to me, but it was the I don't know what else I just thought like I'm just freaking out because he she didn't think Emily because she thought Emily left like I know Emily left the apartment Janice was the only one here she was sleeping late right and then when she didn't show up to work she was like oh my like what happened like did something yeah yeah so again nothing made sense so she was like I gotta call someone for help I don't know what's happening and I gotta get the fuck out of here so she was like I have to get out of here so she so out she ran into
the hall and she was was trying to find somebody out there, but she found an empty hallway, so she ran down to the lobby, and from a pay phone, she called her boyfriend.
Okay. Again, she's very stressed out.
She doesn't know what to do.
Yeah. He agreed to come over immediately.
She was never able to remember exactly how the next hour unfolded.
She was like, it was so panicked that I didn't know what to do, but she was like, I know that I called the police.
I just don't know if it was the second phone call I made, the first, or the third. I don't know.
She called the police, and then she She placed a call to Janice's parents.
Oh, no. So she was like, I don't know what order I did this in, but I called them all.
I just called them who I needed to call.
Like, I called everyone.
And when Mrs. Wiley answered, she asked to speak to Max instead.
And she said, I wanted to speak to you so as to not alarm Mrs. Wiley.
Oh. Now, Pat told Janice's father, before explaining that she'd returned home, to find no note from Janice.
And it appeared that someone had ransacked their apartment.
Right. Like, I don't know what's going on here.
here. And she's like, I don't know where Janice is.
And I did not find a note.
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Now, living just a few blocks away, Janice's parents, because remember, she grew up in this neighborhood, they arrived before the police.
Okay. And Max panicked, went into the apartment to try to survey what was going on and try to make sure Janice wasn't in there.
And Max Wiley would later recall this to Bernard Lefkowitz.
And he said, I stepped into the bathroom and leaned over and looked at the knife and realized that although it had been put under the faucet and the blade was clean, there was a quarter inch of blood on the hasp.
I was frightened. And I went back to the bedroom that the two ladies were were inspecting and told them to go into the living room and sit down and not touch anything.
Now, Max entered Emily's bedroom and found it in a similar state of disarray.
He said, quote, when the door was half opened, I saw the first of the two twin beds.
There was a lot of luggage on the bed, but the second bed was completely saturated by blood.
And she hadn't noticed this when she first walked in because she was so panicked.
She's looking everywhere, I'm sure.
Yeah. He said it was complete.
And you look at a crime scene photo, it is is completely saturated by blood oh man he said it was a massive gore that's how he described it and so max entered the room and made his way around to the other side of the bed by the window where he unfortunately found the bodies of his daughter janice and her roommate emily on the floor oh my god they were facing each other on the floor and appeared to be tied together with what they later found out was strips of bed sheets so this person whoever had done this had had ripped strips from their own bedsheets, which takes a long time.
He recalled, quote, and he's talking about his own child here.
He said Janice was nude.
Emily was dressed. Oh my God.
Janice had been stabbed through the heart.
Emily's knifing around the neck was noticeable.
Oh my God. The curlers were still in Janice's hair.
Emily had been frightfully cut.
It was very gory. That's how he described it.
Oh my God. So he pulled the blanket from the bed and laid it across the girls.
Then he went back out to the living room and called in the police to report the discovery.
And it's like, that's his daughter.
He walked in on that.
Oh my God. That, I don't know how you ever go on after that.
Unfortunately, it affects him later.
Of course, I bet it did.
Now in reality, the attack on Janice and Emily was even more brutal than what Max had described.
Oh no. Both had been stabbed over 60 times.
Each? Yep. what the seven of which were directly to janice's heart and this is very graphic janice's intestines were quote out of her stomach oh my god yeah and her father saw that yeah so she was literally like she was disemboweled disemboweled and even worse somehow the killer Miller had actually initially stabbed them with a broken soda bottle.
Oh, my God. Then a small knife.
That small knife broke in the process.
So he went back to the kitchen, found a large chef's knife, and returned to the bedroom and continued stabbing them.
And was that the knife that she had found when she walked in?
That's the knife that Pat had found in the bathroom.
Wow. Wow. So he stabbed them over 60 times using a broken soda bottle, which do you know how brutal and fucked up that is?
Yes. And then when he had to stop doing that because he broke the soda bottle enough, he used a knife and so much fury and rage that he broke that knife and then went and found a third weapon to continue stabbing them.
This is insane. Yeah.
Yeah. Now, upon closer inspection, detectives realized that Janice and Emily had actually been tied at the wrists and the ankles separately, and then the killer tied them together.
Okay. So laying near the body, they also found the broken blade from that first knife, the broken bottle initially used in the attack, and an open jar of Noxzema cream, a Gillette razor blade, a pair of women's underwear, and a piece of paper smeared with lipstick laying nearby emily's head okay everything was completely saturated with blood i'm just thinking to myself right now this was obviously like mid -morning that this happened because one of them was expected to be at work one of the pat was at work and then like came back to this later yeah in the in the day how did nobody heard anything
it's wild and they're in they're on the third floor like no one heard anything it's wild this is and just the fact that this happened happened mid -morning, it sounds like.
Yeah. And just so you know, we are going to find out what happened here.
Okay. Like exactly what happened here.
And like just as a quick little trigger warning, because there is sexual assault involved in this.
And I'm not going to get into like the graphic details of it, but the open jar of Noxzema cream came into play there.
Okay. So this is how how brutal this was.
Oh my God. Now for the officers on the scene who had seen a lot of like horrors with their time on the police force.
I mean, they're in New York City.
They're part of the homicide unit.
The violence that they saw perpetrated against these two women was overwhelming.
I mean, this is like on a completely galactic level.
Like this is insane.
They were shocked. Like just the fact that her intestines The intestines were out of her body.
And after hours in the apartment, Detective John Lynch came out into the hallway and was overheard to say, quote, there's a slaughterhouse in there.
In 12 years, I've never seen anything like it.
I believe it. 12 years on the NYPD, and he had never seen anything like that.
Yeah, that's obviously saying something, but I mean, I believe that.
Yeah. Now nearly 10 hours later, investigators and technicians had finished the whole initial processing of the scene, and the bodies were taken by ambulance to the morgue.
That's all while Max Wiley had to take it upon himself to call Emily's parents and let them know what happened.
So Max Wiley was the one who called Emily's parents, which he took on so much that day.
Yeah, and his daughter was brutally attacked and killed as well.
And I'm like, who was taking care of him?
That's remarkable that he even was able to do that.
Yeah. Now, I mean, besides the complete brutality of this scene and just the absolute shock of all this happening, the crime scene was baffling to investigators as well.
Right. Because although the apartment was definitely ransacked, it was clearly, as far as Pat could tell, nothing had been stolen.
And was there any sign of, like, any break -in?
No. No sign of forced entry.
Right, because when she came home, the door was still locked, which is so strange to me.
Well, and all the jewelry was still on the dressers.
Emily's purse was still at the scene.
And then there were, you know, Emily and Janice's bodies themselves.
Like I had mentioned before, again, trigger warning, Janice had been violently sexually assaulted.
Her wounds were also more severe.
Yeah, I mean. And she'd been left nude.
Emily, on the other hand, was fully clothed.
and based on the state in which the bodies were found and the lack of any other apparent motive investigators determined that janice was likely the primary victim and emily's death might have been her being in the wrong place at the wrong time oh that's awful and just the fact that she was like not supposed to be in that place like that day yeah she was gonna go to the other apartment yeah and adding to the mystery was how like you said how the killer even gained access us into the apartment in the first place because like we said there was no sign of forced entry and the doorman didn't recall
seeing anything unusual that day and the building had no fire escape on the exterior because that was going to be my next question because yeah not only did they like they got in somehow yeah but then they got out and the door remained locked exactly so it's like what is that somebody with a key yeah now like we said remember when pat returned home that door was still locked, the only notable thing was an open window.
Okay. But remember, we're on the third floor.
In New York City. So, and all investigators determined was there was no way that someone could have gotten up there.
You can't scale a building.
You can't scale the building.
There's no fire escape.
So, how the fuck did they get to the third floor?
Like, this doesn't make sense.
And then also crazy that the window's open and still nobody heard anything.
Yeah. So they basically just kind of closed any kind of possibility that somebody broke in right away, which we find out like might have been a little too soon that they did that.
But investigators were basically operating on the assumption that the killer was definitely willingly invited into the apartment by one of the victims. It really is the only possibility that looked likely at the time.
Likely, but then how did they lock the door on the way out?
Well, they thought that's the thing.
Like, how did they get out?
that's what no one is really coming up with.
And they were so focused on that idea that like, oh, they must have just been let into the apartment.
They weren't thinking logically about what you just asked, like asking the real questions that you should be asking.
How the fuck did they lock the door on their way out?
Right. So they were so focused on it that they kind of negated the idea that there was a stranger involved here.
And they also said that they couldn't fathom that a random stranger would break in and inflict this much brutality on someone.
Which you get, but also that does happen.
And you can't close off an avenue until you know that that avenue needs to be closed off.
We've seen this time and time again.
When you enter a crime scene with a preconceived narrative in your mind, it is almost always wrong.
And you almost always fuck up the crime.
It's true. And it's like, so, and also because of the status of the victims, daughters of an advertising executive and a surgeon.
Yeah, wow. The murders were made the highest priority at the time.
With roughly 150 officers and detectives assigned to the case many of them were pulled from other precincts and boroughs and in their first press conference Chief of Detectives Lawrence McCurney told reporters quote, the police had no suspects, no leads.
What they did though, what they did have was a basic theory that someone had come into the apartment either with a plan to murder Janice or something happened in the heat of the moment that led to her death.
But again, no one can say how they got back out of the apartment.
Right. And this was supported by the fact that Emily was known to have left to return the car to Riverside that morning.
So her coming back to the apartment would have been a surprise to anyone in there.
Like she wasn't supposed to be there.
She had left. Right.
So if somebody was in there, they were like, oh shit, I thought she was gone.
So they're still running off this idea idea that it's Janice and Emily was just wrong.
Wrong time, wrong place.
And also, Emily hadn't been in New York for very long and really only knew a small number of people.
So if the killer was known to the victims, as detectives really thought that they were, he was most likely going to be found among Janice's friend group.
Okay. Now, knowing that Janice had, like we had said before, a very rich social and dating life, investigators started running down the names in a small green address book that she had that they found in the top drawer.
This included dozens of men and women, many of whom she had actually dated.
And they were absolutely convinced it was somebody in that book, someone Janice knew.
And the idea that she also could have been involved with women really threw investigators for a loop.
They focused really solely on her.
Like that was really it.
And there's actually an ID discovery about this.
And there's this great quote about how this is a great example of cops plunging into a lifestyle that they were just way over their heads about.
And in the meantime, because they were basically interviewing a couple, there was one woman that she was known to have, I think, lived with for a little while named Pearl.
Okay. And Pearl was like this brash, just like, the fuck do you want to know kind of girl.
She was just a hot shit.
and she was just kind of like i don't know it's like i clearly didn't kill her you know what i mean like but she was seemingly like you know fucked up about what had happened to janice but she was like i don't know why you're thinking i would do this like we cared about each other oh and the cops were like oh like i don't know what to do because remember it's barely out of the 1950s at this point so the cops were like what like but she dated women and then it became So then came this whole thing of, like, oh, God, she dated women, too?
Like, what's going on here?
It must be some deviant lifestyle that has led to this, you know?
So it's just ridiculous.
How sad is it that that, like, would still happen, probably?
Exactly. Now, in the meantime, Max Wiley, Janice's father, offered the first potential lead.
Okay. When he told detectives that in the weeks before she died, his daughter had actually been plagued and terrified, quote -unquote, by a series of obscene phone calls.
Oh. Unfortunately, all the people in Janice's address book had alibis for the days that the girls were murdered.
I say unfortunately, fortunately too, I guess, because I would hate to think somebody in her address book was this person.
Yeah, no, but I see what you mean.
Now, similarly, the lead about the obscene phone calls really went nowhere.
Couldn't really go anywhere.
There were also other holes in the theory that they were running off of that really couldn't be ignored.
For instance, Janice had planned to go to the March on Washington that day and would have otherwise been at work.
So, like, there was really no reason for her to be home.
Like, this was out of her general routine, and she wasn't even planning on being at home for the rest of the day.
Right. So the killer would have had to either know her plans that day, which seems unlikely since her own roommates didn't know her plans that day.
Yeah. Or they would have had to have been watching the apartment.
Which seems sort of likely.
Which could be likely.
Now, if the killer had been watching the apartment building to find out whether Janice was home, that also had certain implications.
Like, for example, East 88th Street was in one of the nicer neighborhoods and populated with middle and upper -middle -class residents.
So in that case, someone certainly would have noticed an unfamiliar face lingering in the area.
People knew each other here, and they were on the lookout.
Especially if that person was, like, noticeably out of place in any way.
Like, people would be like, you're not from around here.
Like, what are you doing staring at this apartment kind of thing?
And after all, based on the viciousness of the attacks and the mutilations to the bodies, essentially, Janice and Emily's killer would have been covered in blood.
Covered. Yeah. Which someone would have noticed in broad daylight.
You would think. And so armed with this new theory of like, okay, now we got to move away from that original one, an army of police officers descended on the Upper East Side neighborhood and started canvassing all the buildings around Janice and Emily's building Because they were like, it's got to be someone around here that nobody would notice.
They wouldn't look at a place.
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now among the investigators leading the canvas was detective eddie bulger oh i don't like that look yeah he was a detective from brooklyn and he was brought on to assist in the case you're gonna want to kick eddie bulger in the fucking chin i got that feeling immediately you had this look in your eye when you said that fucker's name now i'll give it to the detectives in Manhattan.
They were not into him either, so I'll give them that much. They were appreciative of the help because they needed all the help they could to canvass.
There was a lot of people to talk to.
But a lot of them found Bulger's, I'll say his personality and his approach distasteful at best. Particularly the way he interacted with some of the residents in and Emily's neighborhood, according to Bulger, so according to this detective, Bulger, not according to anybody else, according to him, he claimed that he had what he would call a sixth sense for knowing not when any person was lying, when Black people were lying.
Oh, so he's a racist fuck.
Yep. Cool. And he was known by all to treat Black interviewees with far less respect than he did anyone else.
And he never got in trouble for this?
Well, because this was such a high -profile case, it was determined pretty quickly that Bulger's obvious racial bias was very risky to this case.
Yeah, that's what I was just going to say.
You're going to shoot yourself in the foot here.
They knew. They were like, he's going to taint this.
This is going to happen.
He's going to push someone just because he's a racist. Fuck.
Right. So, bye bitch. They kicked him off the case almost immediately.
Oh good. They got some reports that he was interacting with some of the people in the buildings around Janice and Emily's building.
And it was very clearly who he was treating nicely and who he wasn't.
And so I think people that were partnered with him were like he's gonna try to pin this on somebody.
Not only is this fucked up, but he's gonna get me in trouble too.
And this whole case is gonna fall apart.
And you're gonna get the wrong guy instead of You're out of here, Bulger.
But how fucked up is that?
I know when a black person is lying?
That's disgusting. The fuck is wrong with you?
That's just literal pure hatred.
Literal, just say you're racist. Just say it.
You essentially are.
Now, unfortunately, even with Bulger off the case, the neighborhood canvas really turned up like no substantial leads.
And a month later, investigators were still without anything.
I almost said without nothing.
Without nothing. Now, a police spokesperson said there's a complete lack of physical evidence, no description of the murderer, not one substantial clue, not one tangible motive, which is so frustrating.
And despite having no new information or motive, investigators continued to reject the notion that the killer was, quote, a psychotic stranger who entered the apartment by chance.
Instead, they remained committed to the belief that whoever killed Janice and Emily was most likely an acquaintance of Janice.
So, they were moving slightly away from the original theory, but still focusing on Janice.
Which, again, I get it.
I get it, because of what they're seeing.
I'm getting the sense, though, that it's, like, not.
Well, this was also refuted by Max Wiley, Janice's father, who insisted, quote, I knew most of the men Janice dated.
They were a very decent crowd.
Hmm. And according to Max, he said, quote, there was only one that I had any deep inner disapproval of.
Janice was infatuated with him.
He was a liar. He was mean.
He was cruel. And so he reported the man's name to investigators.
He was like, here you go, go check him out.
He was instantly checked out and cleared because he had a rock solid alibi.
Oh, so he's just an asshole.
yeah now despite thousands of man hours and the offer of ten thousand dollars in a reward put up by newsweek where janice worked which now would be like a hundred thousand dollars oh wow uh the one year anniversary of the murders was coming up quick and they didn't find a single piece of evidence that was going to help them now months later on april 14th 1964 a 46 year old cleaning woman and mother of five named Minnie Edmonds was murdered.
She was stabbed to death near Sutter Avenue and Chester Street in Brooklyn by a man who was trying to steal her purse.
Now, this ended up being kind of the first break in the case because what they didn't know it at the time and what really ended up being what like, I guess, kind of broke them was the first break in the case was another young woman in brooklyn was then reported reported to police that she had been attacked like right like a week later after minnie edmonds was killed wow and she was attacked in the same area and her name was elba barrero and she was also in brooklyn and it was around 1 30 a .m again a week after minnie and she was grabbed from behind by a man who held her by the throat and then
according to her dragged her into a doorway and was trying to steal her purse hmm now Elba screamed and I guess he had told her like if you scream I'll kill you yeah but she started to scream obviously you gotta try yeah you gotta try and her attacker ended up running off oh okay so he ran off and before he ran off she tore a big button off of his overcoat smart girl and a nearby patrol officer Frank Azola responded to the screams and chased the suspect wow and he ended up losing sight of the suspect at one point but he saw a man named George Whitmore, who was 19 years old at the time, and originally
thought he was shorter and thinner, like didn't match the build of the person that he saw running away from the scene and who Barrero had described him as looking like.
So he kind of lost sight and he was just like, I don't know about that.
But the following day, while Detective Azola and his partner, Detective Richard Adala, was on patrol in the same neighborhood, they spotted Whitmore again George Whitmore sure and just arrested him oh now it should be noted he's a black man why did they arrest him when he didn't match the suspect that he saw with his own eyeballs running away from the scene I don't know like what what charge are you not sure what are you charging him with out of nowhere well and what's what's even better is they called Elba up and they were like hey we have a suspect prospect uh we need you go identify him which like
oh oof tainted already you can't say that he's nope like that's like that's not how that works we have someone we want you to look at how that works so they asked her if they could i she could identify him and she was like well i never saw his face and they like it was dark and i didn't see him and she was like but yeah i can identify him but you just said you never saw his face i don't know about that a million people in in this world have the same build not usually the same face yep oh but honey and so i was in your corner what you think is that they would put him in like a proper lineup correct
just that's how that's how this works i don't know if i would think that but yeah it's even worse because they brought elba to the door of the interrogation room where whitmore was sitting and said is that the the guy we just arrested him and we think he's the guy is that the guy and you look at him in that interrogation room no where he is very clearly looking like a suspect no you literally can't do that like you can't do that and she hesitated and she was like i don't know and she said can i hear him speak and they had him say something and she was like yep that's him oh that's the shakiest
shit i've ever heard i don't know what yeah so as elba barrero was helping to identify her attacker and she was overheard by a detective who happened to be in the area no don't you even a detective by the name of uh eddie bulger no not this fucker i knew we hadn't seen the last of him i felt it in my bones he happened to work in the same precinct oh goody He was also very bitter about being kicked off the Wiley -Hoffert murder case a few months earlier.
So he wanted to solve it, quote unquote.
So Detective Bulger saw this moment as an opportunity to redeem himself, and he was given permission to interview the suspect.
Whose idea was that?
Yeah. According to Detective Bulger, when officers searched George Whitmore, they found several photographs of women in his pockets.
Okay. um or excuse me of a woman i should say in his pockets and when they asked who the woman was whitmore claimed he found the photos and had been showing them to his friends to make them think it was his girlfriend okay detective bulger though was like no that's a picture of janice wiley and immediately was like you are the killer of janice wiley and emily hoffert was it even a picture of janice i guess we'll have to see huh and we'll have to see in part two you son of a bitch because when i tell you that this is a twisty turny series of events that is going to happen right now oh man because remember
elba barrero grabbed a button off of this person so that's going to be a thing yes they have a button she's identified him george whitmore and now Now, Detective Bulger here, who is racist, a known racist, and was actually kicked off the case for being racist, is now in charge of dealing with this black man who is a suspect based off a real wonky identification.
Based off of nothing, essentially.
And is now, they found pictures in his pockets, like, just so you're set up for the next thing, of a woman who he's saying, I just found these pictures.
I was just claiming it was my girlfriend.
I was trying to be cool.
and now detective bulger is like that's janice wiley so you would think with all that you're like wow okay that's a little weird we got him right we don't so yeah i had a feeling we did it um stay uh stay tuned for part two because it's going to get very frustrating but um in the end there's at least a a tiny bit of justice do we get the right person eventually we'll know who did it oh no alright well we hope you keep listening I'm so trepidatious keep it weird but not so weird that you're anything like detective bulger no no If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining
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