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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.
She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.
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Hey weirdos, I'm Alayna. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
It's New Year, Morbid. It's New Year. New Year, same us.
That's it. Nothing else. We're not claiming anything.
We're not doing anything. Ash is gonna moisturize.
We're going to organize and that's about it.
Moisturize and organize, baby. Not promising anything else.
No, just promising. No one's claiming this year.
No one's doing anything like that. We're just going to live it.
We're just vibing, okay? We're just taking it day by day, everybody, okay?
It's all we can do. It's all we're going to do.
Hopefully you're living a better New Year's than the woman who we encountered the other day.
Oh my god, for real. This is the best. If you follow me on Twitter, you know that.
We were out the other day grabbing coffee when we were in this parking lot drive-through area.
This woman basically just started backing her fucking car into mine.
She... When I say to you that like, I was looking out the window as Ash was driving.
I was like, I'm gonna get crushed. She was, I mean, if she had opened her window, she could have tapped on the back of her car easily.
I should have actually. And she just kept backing up and wasn't stopping.
Yeah. And... Let me preface this by saying, and I'm still not, I have never been in the business of trusting a complete stranger to not hit my car.
I have never been in that business. I don't plan to open that business now, especially after what happened now.
No, I've never subscribed to that business. a nice little honk of, hey please don't hit my car, thank you.
We all know that That warning honk. We know the asshole honk and we know the warning honk.
The warning honk is a boop. boop quick little eat and that's all i did the asshole honk is like that we know that yeah so we did a friendly little honk like hey please don't hit me ma'am and then I rolled down my window and After this woman literally tried to hit my car, I gave her the benefit of the doubt and I yelled out my window,
Hey, are you trying to get out like I can back up?
She did not want to hear that. She started screaming at me.
You're in a fucking. parking lot pay attention and i was like i i am the one paying attention to you almost backing into my car It's evidently you that's not paying attention to where I am.
My favorite part of this was she said...
I have a backup camera. I wasn't gonna hit you.
Okay. How do I know that? I don't trust people I don't know to not hit my car.
One. Two. we have heated seats in our car.
What else do you have? Kalina was like, We should have just been like, yeah, well, I have heated seats.
And then she could have been like, well, I have four wheel drive.
I got new windshield wipers. Like, are we just doing a tit for tat what amenities we have in our cars?
I don't give a shit that you have a backup camera.
What? So she is literally screaming at me.
And I am just looking at this woman befuddled.
I don't I'm not the kind of person who in situations like this just like screams back because I just.
My body shuts down. I don't know what to do.
I'm like, why are you like this? I don't understand.
And also Ash... was very non-confrontation literally leaned out her window and said Hey, are you trying to leave like or are you just trying to move your car like I can back up?
Yeah. Like, I was trying to rectify the situation.
Very nice. Happy New Year, lady. This woman came out guns blazing.
Screaming. In her athleisure outfit. And, you know, she was not nice.
The vibes were not a max. I was sitting next to Ash and I was just watching this whole thing and I was like... I could feel the heat radiating. and i could just feel my blood pressure and it and also like with the end of the year that we had i was like Don't fuck with me.
Honey, you think you can scare me? Yeah.
You think... We had COVID. My whole house had Rona.
We had COVID. We had a dog who we had for 12 years and was our first baby die.
My mom, like, you know almost like broke her whole face open falling and it's like You think you can scare me?
Like, we've been through this. And you're just not going to yell at Ash.
You're just not going to. You are not. If I'm around you.
You're not going to. Elena yells at this woman.
Calm the fuck down. Fuck down! Don't you fucking yell at her!
Like, scream. screaming and the lady's yelling back and her lady's going, no, no.
No! So I just rolled up my window, waved at the woman nicely, and just continued upon my day.
In my heart. was pounding so hard because I was like so red I was like I can't I can't and then I was like I was like No, you're not going to yell at you.
It's just not going to happen. You didn't deserve that.
No, I didn't. You were being very nice. I was.
She almost hit your car. I am not going to trust strangers to not hit my car.
And I don't know why you think I care that you have a fucking backup camera.
Yeah. And who are you yelling at me from your minivan in the middle of a parking lot?
Like, what is wrong with you? And I was so confused because she had just pulled into the spot.
So I was like, oh, maybe she's trying to straighten out at first.
And because she had backed up twice, actually.
So I was like, do you need me to move so you can straighten out?
Like, I thought that's what it was. But then as she's yelling at me, she points to the car next to her and she's like, he's trying to move.
And then I was like. He should do that then because he has room.
And he never moved. And I don't even think they knew each other.
No, they definitely didn't. Very strange.
So he's trying to move. How does that okay you backing into my, I don't see the correlation, ma'am.
So I was like, you know, I don't think anybody's going to win here.
I think you should have gotten an extra coffee today, ma'am.
Because I don't know who pissed in your fucking Wheaties.
Happy New Year to that, you know... Coont.
That Becky out there. Yeah. But... And what's even crazy, because this is like a weird parking lot, and it was busy.
Yeah. So this other guy tried to get out of line and he came next to us, rolled down his window and we rolled down ours and he was like, hey, do you mind if when that car in front of you moves, if I just scoot around and out of here?
And we said- Of course not. Have a great day.
Go ahead. Happy New Year. That's how you talk to people.
Yeah. Like if you're trying to move, just be like, hey, I'm trying to move. all she had to do was lean out her window and like make the motion.
Like, can you roll down your way? And we would have.
And if she was like, do you mind if i just try to scoot out of here i'd be like absolutely but no no so there's there's that backup camera i have a backup camera that's my favorite I want like a shirt that says I have a backup camera I think every car since like 2010 has had one so congrats lady And I just, I literally don't care.
And the way you're acting now, I was supposed to trust that you're a rational person. person who wasn't going to hit my car.
And also we were getting coffee. She never went in to get coffee.
She never got out of her car. And then she just left.
I was like, why were you even here? No, she woke up and she chose an electric blue athleisure shirt and violence.
Yeah, she did. shows yeah so i hope she you know what i hope you're having a great fucking new year i hope you're listening to this But long story short, we all need an Elena.
And you know what? she loves me you know what it's i i do i love you okay like no one's gonna yell at you no i don't like but And you know what we also need?
We need a 1930s. Arkansas murder. Yeah.
I'm always saying that. We need to talk about the river people of the White River in Arkansas in 1930s is what we need to do.
I woke up this morning and I actually said to myself, you know, today on Morbid I really need an Arkansas River case.
Yeah, I think everybody does. So here I am.
I'm here to deliver it for you. I give the people what they ask for.
This is the case of the swamp angel. The swamp angel?
The swamp angel. Can... what can I identify as a swamp angel from this day forward I mean you got to do a lot and I don't know if after all you're still going to want to identify as a Swamp Angel, but let's find out. called uh this is about helen spence who they called the swamp angel this gives me already was it aunt julia vibes julia oh yeah yeah yeah it does you're right the cabin on the water you're right Now, this takes place in the area of the Lower White River in Arkansas.
Now, let me give you a brief history on this area because this story not only concerns the area, but it concerns a community of people in that area.
And these people are referred to as the river people.
And we're going to get into that in a moment.
All right. So the White River is over 700 miles long, which is crazy.
That is crazy. It begins in Arkansas in the Boston Mountains, which I was like, Boston Mountains, Ked!
But no. The Boston Mountains, kid. And then snakes into Missouri a little bit and then bends back into Arkansas.
Swirly twirly. There's a little like spit of it in Missouri, but then it's basically in Arkansas.
Okay. Now the Osage people, which remember when I did, I believe it was the Bloody Benders where I called it Osage. and everybody was like you made it sound so fancy and i loved it but it's osage i learned The Osage people and Cherokee and Quapaw tribes made the banks of this river their homes for a long time and up to like the 1700s then settlers came through and were like mine You know how that goes.
So the Lower Wright River... is where the White River proper kind of begins to empty into the Mississippi River.
And this is where our story takes place, the Lower White River.
Okay. 1920s and the 1930s, which is where this whole story is going to happen, you know before that after that even now a little bit there is a community of people called the river people of course People behind their backs would call them river rats, which is not something you should ever call them.
That's like a nasty term for them, but people would call them that and that's basically like you want to start a fight you you call a river person a river rat yeah don't be doing that yeah so don't do that But they were proud, they were hardworking, and they were a vital part of the culture and the lives of the so-called drylander. which were obviously people who lived in the cities and on dry land all right uh They lived on houseboats and they fur trapped, they caught their own food, they dove for fish and mussels in particular in that river.
They actually were big button makers and they would make them out of the muscle shells.
Oh, cool. Yeah. And according to the Arkansas Times, over 90% of buttons in US Army uniforms were made from... from these muscles.
That is really cool. Isn't that crazy? I love muscles.
Right? And I do not. I think they're pretty.
You said, right? And I was like, you don't love mussels.
I mean, you do, but I love the look of them.
They're like that pretty iridescent shell.
Yeah, yeah. They made their own diving equipment too.
Whoa. Yeah. Like they made diving helmets and shit from car parts and other refurbished, recycled junk, basically.
Fucking crafted. Yeah, they would collect mussels on the bottom of the rivers and this is directly from a book I read about this case. which I highly recommend, highly.
I will obviously post it in the show notes.
It's called Daughter of the White River by Denise White Parkinson. amazing book I like that title Daughter of the White River it's amazing Amazing.
I really want everybody to read it because Denise really goes into like so much detail about the timeframe, the area, the river people themselves, the characters in this story.
She actually spent a ton of time interviewing like a like a character in this story.
I say character because this really does feel like a movie, but it's real.
And I'll tell you who when it comes up to it, but she took a lot of time really talking to people that were fully involved in this i love that she's like a descendant from like her ancestors were like river people She was born and raised in Arkansas like she's very much a part of this whole thing Wow so from that book about the diving helmets that they did.
This is a direct quote. It says, using a diving helmet crafted from the barrel-shaped gassed tank of a Model T. The diver set the metal cylinder on his shoulders and commenced to wade in.
Weighed down by the helmet and some rocks, the diver made his descent, dumping rocks as needed to surface again.
Oh. Some helmets had a window of glass.
Sometimes the men just moved along blind in the river muck.
Isn't that wild? I can't imagine just like diving into just blackness.
It is. fascinating like they were just like discarding rocks to float back up they were insanely skilled insanely you know like I mean, the ingenuity and the innovation they had was out of this world.
And beyond their time. Yeah, and so, like, excuse me, ahead of their time.
Way beyond their time. It's true, though.
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But the person that the author of that book talked to to really get a feel for all this was a guy named L.C.
Brown. He was the son of the town sheriff who was Lemuel Cressy Brown Sr.
All right. And Elsie was actually Lem Jr., And Helen Spence is the swamp angel who we're going to talk about. was very good friends with Elsie Brown, like best friends growing up.
She actually gave him the nickname Elsie.
She was like, she was like, you're not like a Lem junior.
You don't look like a junior to me. Like, can I call you Elsie?
I like it. And he was like, I love it. So he went by that. um he plays a huge role in this because they grew up together they were like best friends he knew this swamp angel from you know from childhood, basically.
And he told her story and made sure her story got told the right way.
So he's very important. Now, these river people used every bit of everything they caught or hunted.
They never hunted or killed animals for sport and they shared what they had and what they caught with each other.
Mm-hmm. If someone got a big fish bounty, they all enjoyed that big fish bounty.
They never kept it. Yeah, they would enjoy the fruits of each other's labors, basically.
I love that. It was a very tight-knit community.
They also had their own set of rules and laws.
They referred to this as river justice. and it was often carried out by their own discretion.
Now that's starting to sound stupid. it's a little scary i don't want to be served river justice you do not it doesn't sound like it Settlements of river people would also look out for each other.
They created alarm systems that They all knew how to sound and would take turns looking out at night at vulnerable times.
They were always willing and ready to jump in and help each other if needed.
In Arkansas and possibly elsewhere, but I only researched the river people in this particular river in Arkansas.
Yeah. I'm sure there's different rules for all of them.
They would whittle their own alarm whistles and would use them to call out in the middle of the night if someone invaded or there was any cause. for concern or harm.
That's cool. And there was like a certain like a certain whistle sound that they would make that you knew was the like the alarm sound basically.
Cool. Almost like a tornado siren. Yeah, yeah.
So now we know what the river people are, how they work.
Let's talk about Helen Spence, our swamp angel.
Swamp angel. Now her birth date is not completely known.
Okay. We do know... Around this time that this began, she was, you know, that the story really gets going is when she was around 17 years old.
Mm-hmm. But even to this day, We have no idea what her birthday was.
Okay. Her parents were Cicero Spence and Ellen Woods.
She had one older sister named Edna, who she referred to as Edie.
They were very close. At some point unknown, Ellen, the mother, passed away.
It was when she was very young, like months old.
I think, when Helen was. And Cicero eventually remarried a woman named Ada.
And everyone got along. It seemed like it was a very good, solid family who was respected by everybody else.
Very well liked. Everything was great. Cool.
And they're river people. They're river people.
Now, Cicero had made their houseboat himself. like from scratch completely from scratch houseboat for like a period of time i do not but i think it's but i think this seems lovely for anybody who likes the water i think it'd be so cool like a pretty rad place just for a little bit yeah just for a little bit a little bit So he made their houseboat.
It was pretty rad all considering this. houseboat.
It had a tin roof, was over 30 feet long, had a nice patio, a kind of walkway he built around the boat. where they could hang out on chairs, just hang out there.
They had several rooms. There was three bedrooms, one for everybody aboard.
There was electricity, running water, everything you needed on this houseboat.
Cool. Now, Cicero was super smart, really skilled.
He was a master trapper and fisherman. He was a great hunter.
He was able to provide and he taught his neighbors and friends and his daughters these skills.
And according to Daughter of the White River, people in the river community would also come to him for help with like mediation of fights.
Okay. So whenever there was an issue among families or friends on the river, Cicero would always be the one to help talk it out with them and come to an understanding.
He was like the river people's therapist.
He really was. He would like help them chill out.
Cool. And help them like walk away from it without anything happening.
Nice. Yeah. I feel like every community needs that.
Right. I feel like everybody needs a Cicero.
Yeah. I don't know. But Helen. She adored her father.
And they spent a ton of time together after her chores or whatever she needed to get done.
She would just hang out with him, learning everything she could learn from him.
She just admired him. She would follow him to all his little things that he would do and he would happily take her.
I love that. Like seemed like they had this like crazy Bond.
Yeah. And he really like... And everything I read about it was like he...
And it was definitely a product of the time.
He treated her like they would normally treat a son.
Sure. Father-son. Yeah, yeah. But he really... He taught her everything he would have taught a son.
So he respected her. So he really respected her.
And... She had a ton of friends. They were like very close friends on the river, too, because they were together all the time.
Oh, yeah. The most mentioned ones I heard about in every article or every book I read was a guy named John Black. who she grew up with, and he becomes very important, and the sheriff's son, Elsie Brown, who continually tells her story now.
They were huge fixtures in her life. They spent countless days with her and the other kids from the riverboats.
They were fished together, hunted together.
They played together. They took trips by boat at night to go watch the stars on a boat. beautiful, very wholesome, very sweet friendships.
Hell yeah. And they would literally like, And it was funny because I read a bunch of things that like Cicero was very protective of his daughters too.
Mm-hmm. And this was around the time of the Great Depression.
Things were really shitty. uh the river people really kind of like thrived because they fished and hunted yeah so like they were kind of taken care of But farmers were having terrible times.
Everybody else on dry land was like, it was a depression.
Yeah. And there was also a very hot summer during all of this in Arkansas, so I guess the heat was making people kind of crazy along with everything that was going on.
And there was a lot of times where Cicero would kind of like pull his daughter's clothes and be like, you need to watch out for strangers around here because people are like starting to go crazy with the heat.
And like with what's going on. That's like now.
Like people are going crazy with the pandemic.
It's true. So it's like you need to be careful because people are out of their minds.
Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, even when John Black would come to be like, let's go take a riverboat ride and like go watch the stars.
He was like, no. I hope that's all you're doing.
You better keep an eye on those stars. Literally he was like yeah you look at the stars.
He's like what constellations? It seems like a very like It's just like a wholesome friendship thing.
Yeah, yeah. She was briefly married to a boy named Buster Eaton.
Who was, and I feel like with the name Buster Eaton, you can kind of guess that he was a moonshiner.
I don't know. It just makes sense. Yeah.
I feel like he would have either been a speakeasy owner...
Or like, he just makes sense that he was like a moonshine or a...
You know, what's it called when they were, like, against prohibition?
Oh, um... Bootlegger? Bootlegger. That's what it is.
I was like, I'm going to look it up because it's going to bother me.
A bootlegger. I just closed my eyes really hard.
You did. That was good. I was like, come to me.
It came. a bootleg or a moonshine or a speakeasy on it like he just Buster Eaton seems like he's like Just up to no good.
Yeah, no, his name's Buster. You can't be like, come on, Buster.
But they were married briefly. Not a ton is known about it.
I couldn't find a lot about it at all. Very brief.
She returned to live with her family on the river pretty quickly.
Buster wasn't for me. Not for her. But they kept using her former married name of Eaton in newspaper articles about her, and that annoyed me a lot.
Yeah, that is annoying. Because like she didn't have that name anymore.
I hate when they'll do that in cases too where like the woman was murdered by her husband and they continue to like... use the married name.
And I'm like, can you not? No, probably not now.
If any time is the time to use her maiden name, like, use that.
Right now, yeah. So... That's basically what Life on the River was, a very brief overview.
I urge you to read that book to get a very rich and very... full view of this.
It sounds like a good read. Some good stories from Elsie are in there, like first-hand accounts and conversations.
Really good. I can pick But I wanted to give you a quick brief overview of that because then one morning in December, In 1932, I believe it was.
When Helen was about 17 years old. She recalled she heard her father speaking to a man he referred to as Jack when she woke up early that morning.
She could hear him outside. He and Jack discussed a fishing trip, and then they left together on a little motorboat.
So Helen's stepmother Ada woke her up and was like, uh, Cicero, I made him some lunch, but he forgot it.
So she said, why don't you and I go take a small like little paddle boat and row it out to him?
Okay. Because he's probably not that far.
Yeah. So she was like, sure thing, girl.
I love how cute that is. Like he forgot his lunch.
Let's go paddleboard. Let's just go paddleboat that out there.
Right. So as they come up. They start seeing the boat and they see that they're standing up in the boat and they're arguing.
Oh no. And they're like in each other's faces a little bit.
Uh oh. And then out of nowhere, Helen said she just heard a shot sound and Cicero fell.
No. Jack saw Ada and Helen coming, like looked over and saw them. immediately pushed Cicero right into the water.
What? And then pointed the gun at them and said...
He was looking for Cicero's money that he knew he had buried, and he said he refused to show me where it was.
So then he's holding a gun at them the whole time.
And Ada, the stepmother, saved Helen by telling Jack.
I know where it is. I'll show you." And she said she doesn't know anything.
She was like, she I think she referred to her as like simple minded and she said she won't be able to tell you anything.
Just leave her alone. Okay. But I'll tell you.
Okay. Wow. What a great stepmother. Apparently they were like very very close to like well yeah I'm sure she was like part of her life I think she became her stepmother when she was like one years old or something like Cicero.
Yeah. So Cicero. And to watch your father get shot.
Yeah. And Jack grabbed Ada, forced her onto his motorboat, and then stole the oars from Helen and just pushed her downstream without order. what the fuck like what is even the purpose of that just to be an asshole what a dick And he's not a river person.
No. Okay. He's an outsider. And she just sat in the boat aimlessly floating in absolute shock and terror.
Oh. And eventually some nice people found her.
How traumatic. Now, there was no hidden money.
There was no buried money. Ada knew there was no buried money.
Ada did it purely to save Helen. She knew there was nothing to show Jack.
But she was like, I just need to get him away from her.
Oh my God. What an amazing human. Yeah. When Jack discovered this, he beat Ada to within an inch of her life and raped her.
Oh god. She survived initially. And the guy, his name was Jack Worrells. was caught when word spread of what had happened.
Now normally the river people would have dealt out some river justice.
Hell yeah. But he was caught by the law and would stand trial for the murder of Cicero Spence.
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Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts Spotify or the Wondery app Now, family from a neighboring city took Helen's sister Edie Because Edie actually was born with paralysis.
Okay. So she was like... she couldn't she needed help she needed a lot of help and care without parents on the river she was not going to do well no so neighboring family took her in in the city.
Now, Helen stayed and spent all her time in the hospital in Memphis taking care of Ada. and just being there in case she woke up and being there to like try to nurse her back to health.
Because was she in a coma? She was in and out of a coma.
She was in horrible shape. Now, January 7th, 1931.
So sorry, I said this happened in 1932. It was 1931.
That's great. january 7th 1931 she died as a result of her brutal assault i knew you were gonna say that too yeah So on the day of Jack's trial at the DeWitt courthouse, Helen was seated in the front row.
And Helen is all alone now. She's an orphan now.
My God. And how old was she? She was 17.
Oh my God. Yeah, and they described what she was wearing and there's a ton of like old newspaper accounts of this.
They described what she was wearing as a red velvet suit and a white fur trimmed, like rabbit fur trimmed muff on her hands.
Yeah. Yes, bitch. You better work. And she sat quietly... hours in that front row just watching this, and it seemed as though this case could honestly go either way, weirdly.
Because he was claiming it was self-defense.
She was 17, so she wasn't able to testify because they wouldn't take her...
As credible evidence. Cool. And now Ada, the only witness, was dead.
It's like, hi, I witnessed the whole entire thing.
But she's not allowed to even testify. That's so fucked.
And they basically, you know, it was wondered whether this was really being properly tried as well because the victim was a river person.
I was going to say it was definitely a class thing I think was playing into this and it plays into a lot of it. this i was gonna ask you that so there was a real possibility that jack was going to be acquitted at the end of this and as jack stood while the jury but so jack stood up the jury stood up The jury was about to file out of the room to go deliberate.
Helen also stood. And from inside her hand muff, she drew a pearl-handled pistol.
Bitch, yes she did. And without hesitation, she shot Jack in the chest.
Four times in the middle of the courthouse.
A motherfucking icon. After pulling it out of a rabbit fur trimmed muff. while wearing a fucking red velvet suit we said hell yeah Be arch.
Yeah. I am living. Then she just stood there in the courtroom as it descended into chaos. was like what the fuck is in the local sheriff county sheriff lemuel cressy brown senior her best friend's father who was close to the Spence family, and like we said, whose son was like best friends with Helen, was the first to come up to her.
I feel like it was a moment of insanity, sorry.
And I believe he's described as still smoking a pipe and he was just walking up to her like... the pipe excuse me girlfriend oh no she just turned around and was like oh Hey, what's up?
And, like, had her hands down, like, after she shot him, she just put her hands down, like...
That's what I wanted to do. Vengeance is hers.
She went with the sheriff without incident into a holding room. and he took the gun from her and she gave it to him a pearl hand and he tried to empty the bullets out that remained in the gun and it was like stuck and he was like very stressed out and was like shaking i guess according to the book he was like shaking and freaking out And she basically was like, let me do it.
It sticks sometimes and just pulled it back.
Wow. And she did it for him and then gave the gun back to him.
Amazing. And according to the book, Daughter of the White River...
Every man in the room literally dove for cover thinking she was going to just go ham and shoot everybody.
She's like, no, guys, I don't care about you.
But she just calmly... empty the bullets she's like this motherfucker murdered my dad in front of me her only response to what the hell she was thinking was he killed my daddy hell yeah he did she said he killed my daddy I killed him that was it now newspaper she said media she said that's river justice yep she said fuck around and find out he found out she said and what's crazy is newspaper and media obviously went nuts about this oh yeah and of course there was like sensationalism like they said that she had to be tackled and she threw the gun but the sheriff confirmed she had She had just chilled there.
Yeah. And that she had gone with him easily and calmly, handed the gun, no incident.
The Arkansas Gazette reported, quote, she laughed telling of the flight of judge, jurors, lawyers, and spectators from the courtroom where she opened fire. she hopes to obtain her freedom as she does not believe she committed a crime when the electric chair was mentioned she laughed again amazing Now, she was dubbed the Swamp Angel.
Yeah, she was. Great band name, I call it.
Honestly. And she was also quoted as saying, down where I was raised in the White River bottoms, where we rarely saw the quote unquote law.
We took care of such matters ourselves. No one ever killed anyone unless there was great reason for it.
I was born to that kind of law and it seemed all right to me.
Anyhow, none of the my people or the folks I grew up with trusted officers or the courts.
Yeah, clearly that's why. And it looked like he was about to get acquitted.
Right. And he had brutally assaulted and murdered her stepmother as well.
Yeah. And raped her. No, she was definitely a hero to a lot of people and a lot of people sympathized with her.
I do. And they sympathized with this act of vengeance.
A lot of people came out and supported her. that motherfucker murdered her daddy.
Obviously there were people who came out and, you know, Where like vigilante justice can't be a thing because laws and shit, which like I know it's a very slippery slope.
When you allow people to shoot people in the middle of courtroom.
It'd be very chaotic if we continued to do so.
We can look back on this and be like, whoa, that was crazy.
But like... It can't happen. No, no. Now, but the support was pretty overwhelming.
But, you know, how that goes. So now she's tried on the crime of first-degree murder because she did bring that gun into the courthouse.
With a clear plan in mind. She was facing five years in prison if convicted and technically They had passed that judgment down pretty quickly.
Like she was going to go to prison. But there was some technicality which allowed her to appeal this immediately.
Now, she was not held in jail or anything for this time.
She was released into the custody of another sheriff who offered to have her live in his house.
Wow. Sheriff McAllister and his wife And during that time that she waited her trial, they were trying to, you know, they were going to try to appeal and there was the possibility that she might even get a pardon from the governor.
Wow. This time. But while she was doing this, she was kind of out on like a promise to appear kind of thing.
She had a curfew. She couldn't be out after sundown.
And she got a job. She had to get a job. and she got one at the Rothenhofer Cafe in DeWitt.
Now, its owner was a man who everyone in town knew to be pretty horrific with women, especially those he had working for him.
No. He assaulted and groped them with reckless abandon.
His name was Jim Bohatz. Fuck him. We'll get back to him.
But Helen was doing well there and actually had...
You know, her reputation was actually bringing people in from everywhere because they wanted to be served by the swamp angel.
Sure. Which, like, same. Like, you're welcome, Jim.
Yeah. So a The judge granted her permission to move from the sheriff's home eventually into an apartment above the cafe where she worked.
Okay. And she was moving in with another waitress at the cafe whose name was Ina Mayberry.
Oh, I love the name Ina. It's just like pretty.
Yeah, it is. Ina. Ina. I like I names. Right?
It's just... aina i don't know it's flowy anybody named aina you just feel like it's just like woo yeah like aina garden So I feel like I know is probably great for months.
It was kind of the same. Nothing moving forward with her case, but she gets kind of worked and worked and worked.
Jim Bohat's got more and more belligerent and would go into drunken rages and try to assault the girls that worked for him.
Great. He was also getting very angry whenever reporters would show up at the cafe.
Why? It's like you're getting a lot of press here.
Yeah. And when men would try to talk to Helen.
Because he liked her. Yeah. Now, he kept asking her out and trying to get her to go places with him and she would not accept no for an answer. gross so in february finally he came up to helen and he was like listen Will you take a drive with me?
I feel bad about how I've been acting. I just want to show you that I'm not a predator.
So she was like, fine. This is giving me Chris in the craft vibes.
Yes. And so she's like, fine. Well, and he's her boss.
She's probably just like, I have to. And part of her whole thing is she has to have employment.
And she's like, I don't want to get fired. she's like I'm doing well here yeah I'm like I'm trying to get this part in like just let's just do this now they went Don't know what happened, but the following day news broke that Jim Bohatz was found murdered.
At a popular place for couples to hang out and bang out.
I don't know. I made that up. Did you just say hang out and bang out?
I did it wrong. And you just did it so casually.
You just said they hanged out and banged out.
Wow. No, just kidding. Just couples do.
Just couples hang out and bang out. That's just a place where they go.
It rhymed. I felt like I had to take it.
That's hilarious. Thank you. That was like bumping uglies, but better.
Thank you. Do you want to go hang out, bang out?
Hang out and bang out at this cool Arkansas overlook place.
Cute. Jim had been shot by the gun he actually owned and he was found in his car with it parked in a space there.
Well, you know... They immediately went and brought in Helen for questioning that morning because she is a known murderer who worked for him.
And he was a predatory mess around her and everyone knew it.
So she denied everything. There was no evidence to say that she was lying, so the case just kind of went cold.
And everyone basically said there were so many people who hated this guy.
That it would kind of be hard to nail it down to one person who did it.
Which, like, way harsh, Ty. But, like, I think it's...
I watched Clueless last night. Get it. I did.
Look at that. We're on the same wavelength.
But I think it's like they knew Helen went out with him or someone said they did, but they were like, there's no evidence that she did it.
He's gross to a lot of people and a lot of people could have done this.
So we can't just say it's her. Now, not long after that.
The five year sentence that they originally gave her was overturned.
Yeah. And her conviction was downgraded to manslaughter.
She didn't get the pardon, but it was downgraded.
Shorter sentence. So she was now sentenced to two years in prison to be served starting October 11th, 1932.
She was going to serve it out at a women's facility in Jacksonville.
And this place was called the Pea Farm. The Pea Farm.
Not real sure why. Yikes. By all accounts, her stay in that prison was completely fine.
She had really no complaints, was not really forced Or she wasn't at all forced into hard labor because her name recognition at the time They didn't want like fights breaking out or anything.
So she was kept inside, which she was fine with.
Everyone, according to Helen, was nice. The inmates took care of each other.
Cool. Weird, but okay. She was actually paroled early because of an appeal for parole by the Arkansas prosecution attorney i think it's like heart heart hay i believe it's how you say it george we'll just say george so She was released early, like pretty early, in June 1933.
Wow. But... The only thing was she got that, you know, she got that appeal for parole.
She got out early. But she couldn't return to DeWitt or the White River and had to stay away from any of the counties that she kind of knew her whole life.
She can't go home? Yeah, she can't go home.
Why? It was just part of the parole, like, you gotta be out of here.
That's stupid. Where the fuck am I supposed to go?
So she went to Little Rock. Okay. And basically stayed there for a couple of weeks. and then kind of had enough, wasn't into it.
She was like, I'm going to the river. out june june 1933 only a couple weeks later on june 15 1933 she got dressed in a polka-dotted dress, did her hair, gave herself that finger gun wing fake.
In the mirror. I don't know if she did that.
Of course she did. I feel like she did. Then she walked to the Little Rock Police Department. asked for Chief James Pitcock, and when she got him, she said, Hey, I actually did kill Jimbo Hudson.
Do it. Here's the full confession. So do you think that she wanted to go back to prison because she didn't have anywhere else to go?
That's the big question on everyone's mind because she had literally been out for like two weeks.
Yeah. She... there was really nothing that set this off she just walked in there right people think either she had to clear her conscience and she said it had been weighing on her mind okay so maybe it was just a guilty conscience but Maybe a combination of a guilty conscience and nowhere to go.
Like this isn't really the life I want to live anyways.
And this is weighing on me. So I'm just going to tell them.
So she's going to go to prison. So she makes the full confession.
Okay. Now, the newspaper commercial appeal said this about it. which i was like of course this is how she got dressed up to go to prison of course the The, quote, attractive, tastefully dressed young brunette calmly told of circumstances surrounding the killing.
So she told them he was basically a lech and he had consistently and aggressively come after her.
She said he threatened those close to her and her own safety and would say like, if you don't go out with me, I'm gonna hurt someone close to you. and wouldn't take no for an answer.
And in the paper, she said, quote, Her companion then started making overtures to her when they were out in the car.
Ew. And, quote, pawing her. Ugh. You're not a dog, sir.
She attempted to get him out of the car by asking him to see if he could repair the motor trouble because he completely parked there and then was like, oops, the motor died.
Oh, what a sleaze. Fuck you. But he remained in the automobile when he declared he could not start the motor and did not try.
The young woman said she reached into a car pocket where she knew he kept a pistol, drew the weapon, and fired one shot.
The shot struck him in the chest, Bohatz remaining upright on the seat but making no sound.
Then the young woman opened the car door and standing with one foot on the running board, she fired two more shots.
And she said, quote, I thought he might not die.
Okay. So basically put her hands up and was like...
Sorry. I did it. I plead guilty. I did it.
All right. And she was sentenced to 10 years. at the same prison for second-degree murder.
Now this time, she wasn't lucky enough to be kept inside.
Oh. Nope. she was on hard labor oh she was working in the fields in the stifling heat and it's called like working the line basically She seemed to adjust and made some friends.
Well, she's a hard worker anyway. She grew up on the river.
Exactly. She knows hard work, but this sucks, but she, but she made a ton of friends.
They were all like pretty, you know, this is a women's prison.
I guess they were very close in there. They like looked out for each other for the most part.
And one night, an inmate and close friend of hers named Catherine told the group that she had heard the guards planning a seriously fucked up scheme.
And she said, because Catherine, I guess, was like in there for a while.
She was older. She had some more privileges than they did.
So she was in. various areas and heard more than they probably would yeah she said they were basically planning to force some of the younger inmates into sex slavery.
What? They were going to bus them nightly to Memphis and basically traffic them.
What the fuck? Now, obviously, that was terrifying.
And Helen immediately was like, oh, well, fuck, that is not going to be me.
No. And so the next day, September 13, 1933, she was in the fields digging up sweet potatoes.
And she said she just noticed how shitty the fencing was around the perimeter.
Yeah, she did. So she just walked away. Bye.
She just shot her shot and walked the fuck away through a shitty fence.
Like, just bye. I love that she was like one of the first people to think of that.
Like, hey, that fence is really shitty. I could leave.
Well, there was like an armed guard near her and she was just like, hmm, gotta go.
See ya. unfortunately for her she was caught and returned back to the prison in only three hours like bold move though yeah But now I'm really nervous for her.
But then it was announced that she would receive a punishment.
And that punishment was going to be 10 lashes.
Oh. Yeah. Yeah. 10 lashes with something they called a black snake.
A whip that was horrifically huge and dangerous, and this was used commonly in prisons. and they would strip the prisoner naked, make them spread eagle over a barrel, and whip them.
Oh my God. This is where the phrase have like have me over a barrel.
Yeah. Came from. which I had no idea, they referred to what they did to Helen as quote, correcting her. and they kept records of every punishment.
So they kept a record saying, like, this is what we did.
Her record says, and it's signed by the warden.
Yeah. It says, I have today corrected Helen Spence.
Register number 127. Crime, murder in the second degree, term 10. uh county arkansas for what offense corrected for escaping how corrected 10 lashes Now remember, and also she was five foot one.
Oh. And she weighed like 130 pounds. She was like... tiny yeah yeah and i guess when they all all the inmates heard that this was going to happen they were like terrified for her because they were like Can she even handle 10?
I was going to say she could die. Now, remember, this was on September 13th.
She rested for a couple of days and then on September 18th, right back in the fields to work again.
She escaped again. Yeah, she did. Through another hole in the fence, she ran with fresh lash marks.
Still healing. She was recaptured the next day.
Come on, Helen. Run faster. Now this is where things get.
Really dark. She was corrected again, but there is no record. of how she was corrected.
I'm sure there's not. They took her into the warden's basement, and then when she came out, she had a high fever and suffered a kidney infection and could barely walk and couldn't speak.
She was almost septic in a matter of days and they believed she would die.
What do you think happened to make her become septic?
Well, they tried to try... treat her in the prison medical facility and sent word to her friends and family basically saying like, she's probably gonna die, sorry.
Records indicate that she was treated with high levels of sodium benzoate. which is used to treat high levels of ammonia in your system because it aids in the breaking the ammonia down.
Now, high ammonia levels can happen often from liver failure, kidney failure, basically systemic breakdown, organ failure.
So Helen being treated with this meant her organs were literally failing.
Uh-huh. Now aside from that, she was also being treated with digitalis, which is a heart medication that's given to patients with congestive heart failure or with rhythmic heart issues.
She had no history of that. Right. It increases the blood flow and reduces swelling in extremities.
So it reduces fluid retention. Now, if it was used to treat the fluid retention that could have been because of heart issues or because of something like tuberculosis, epilepsy, migraines, spasms.
So I'm like, what did they do to her that made these things possibly happen?
Weird little side note about Digitalis, too.
Digitalis is made from the plant foxglove, and it's highly poisonous.
But foxglove is also one of the major ingredients in da Jackson, which is the medicine that Dorothea Puente used to try to kill some of her patients.
Wow, weird little connection there. Isn't that a weird little connection?
That is. also say on September 30th between 4 to 6 p.m.
Helen was given at least five enemas. between those couple of hours.
Now, this makes me wonder if the digitalis was partially to try to induce vomiting because it can be used for that.
Were they trying to get something out of her system?
What do you think was in her system, though?
I don't know what they could have done to her down there, but they did something down there.
What? And something else further makes me think that that happens later.
So she went through even more enemas. Like one would definitely say way too many enemas.
Yeah. In the end, she was completely filled to the brim with morphine.
On October 2nd, she went into a coma. They kept at it though.
After this, they just added sweet milk to her enemas.
Why? Don't know. October 3rd was a full day of almost constant enemas and morphine.
That night she was finally transported to an actual hospital because her fever was at 103. and she was literally dying.
Almost immediately, she was treated with something called Aluminol, or excuse me, alumnol.
And this is used to induce vomiting as well.
They use this at the hospital. So they must have like poisoned her.
So that's, I'm like, they're trying to get something out of her.
Right. Clearly. Right. Now on October 7th, she was just transported back to the prison in good condition according to records.
So when she got to the hospital, she was immediately fine yeah but they couldn't they just kept doing all that shit they were doing to her at the prison that was like torture i was just gonna say that was pure torture So she's sent back to the prison and at this point she wasn't allowed in the fields anymore because duh.
So now they made her work in the prison laundry.
Okay. Which she was like, that's fine. Now, within weeks, that scheme that Catherine was saying about they were going to bring them to Memphis, that was happening.
Oh. So she kept warning. Catherine was warning everybody.
And some people weren't really listening.
Some people were. why would you not listen helen took it seriously yeah and then she found herself On that bus to Memphis.
No I knew you were gonna say that. But I'm still shocked.
Only a few months left. nights later. So when the bus arrived at a rest stop in West Memphis, She asked to use the ladies room.
Hell yeah, she did. And they let her. And what they didn't know was that all these weeks she had been in the laundry working, she had been systematically and slowly stealing gingham cloth napkins from the laundry, one by one, and at night she was sewing them to the inside lining of her prison dress. so soon when she went to the ladies room she said inside out and it looked like she was wearing a red and white gingham dress then she just walked the fuck away yes bitch they caught her again no They caught her again.
But she had fucked up this whole Memphis scheme.
Yeah. They didn't get to go to Memphis. But what the fuck are they going to do to her for that?
She was corrected with another 10 lashes.
No. Now this is when the wardens were like, get her the fuck away from us.
And they had her transferred to a state hospital.
That was on December 5th, 1933. And they basically did this by stating that she was suffering from homicidal mania.
No, she's suffering from your prison is disgusting.
She's suffering from she's smarter than us and we can't deal with it.
That's what she's suffering from. She was transferred to the hospital and examined there, said to be completely sane.
Of course she is. But suffering from what they called constitutional psychopathic inferiority, which is now actually antisocial personality disorder oh okay gee i wonder why She was returned to the prison again because they were like, yeah, we're overrun here.
And she's not. insane so so she went back and this time the wardens were not taking any chances so they literally Are you ready?
No. Built a wooden cage to keep her in. what this wooden cage was so small she couldn't move what they built a wooden cage around her and put her in it.
What the fuck is wrong with people? They also place this cage in its own barracks away from everybody. at the end of a room under a window so that all day she would be unable to get out of the full unfiltered sun.
Oh God. That would make the cage temperatures reach well above 100 degrees.
Oh my god. She was being literally burned to death, essentially.
Where are the people that are supposed to make sure the prison conditions are okay?
Yeah, not sure. There was a lot of reform after this.
Yeah, I'm sure. Also, she began to be sent outside to work again.
And then locked up in the cage for the rest of the day.
Wow. No one was allowed to speak to her.
She had to eat alone. And out in the fields, no one could look or speak to her.
What the fuck? Now on July 10th, she's out in the fields working, middle of the summer, obviously July 10th in Arkansas.
Did she say bye again? she fainted in the fields and asked when she came to she asked to go get her medication because she was still on medication from that whole ordeal yeah They allowed her to do it.
She did. She came back out to the field.
Uh-huh. Okay. She walked right by the assistant warden and a guard, an armed guard named Frank Martin. who was actually called a trustee guard and he was actually an inmate who was serving 21 years in prison for murder.
But his little job in the prison was to carry a gun and watch over the women.
Are you guys okay? What's happening over there?
What the fuck? Like, how did that seem like a smart job?
She walked right by them. She climbed a barbed wire fence.
And they said she did it like it was nothing.
Yeah, she did. And then just ran into the woods.
At this point, it's like, guys, let her go because she's going to keep doing this.
Well, somehow she got out of the woods and ended up walking down a dirt road. she slept under an oak tree that night no one found her good But then somehow... No, stop.
I don't want you to keep telling me that she got caught.
Well, there's various reports how she was spotted by someone.
And someone reported her. Well, fuck that person. so she gets up the next morning she starts walking again down this dirt field this dirt road and The authorities are on their way now because she's been spotted.
Damn it. They showed up and ordered her to stop, but she didn't.
She just kept walking. Ugh. She's like, fuck off.
That's when Frank Martin shot her in the back of the head, killing her instantly.
When they searched her, they found lipstick in her that one of the other inmates had given her. and a gun belonging to Frank Martin the guard because she had snuck into his room beforehand and stole it while he slept because oh my god who is she She had it hidden in her clothing.
It was his gun. What? The warden, Mrs. Brockman... was informed of this and she said, that is a great burden off my shoulders.
Yeah, that's a coont move. She was set up to die.
Inmates at the field that day said even though the assistant warden and Frank Martin watched her walk away.
The day she escaped, they didn't make much of an attempt to stop her, and it was like they were letting her go.
And there was nothing she had on her that would have allowed her to break into Frank's room.
That door was unlocked, they found. It was left unlocked.
Also, there was a note left in her little cage, and it said, to whom it may concern...
I'll never be taken alive. And they think it was forged.
Nay, nay, they don't think it. They know it now.
And part of the setup... Her signatures did not match.
In fact, her sister Edie later brought hundreds of letters she had sent her when they were apart from each other.
And they compared the handwriting and the signatures and she brought them specifically to be like, fuck you guys, that's not her handwriting.
None of it matched up. Thank you. And the coroner actually changed her cause of death from justifiable homicide to undetermined and the coroner asked for a grand jury investigation into her murder good now it was determined it was indeed a setup this entire thing just like Everyone got fucked.
The grand jury charged the assistant superintendent, who was the warden's husband, by the way, with basically every single accessory to murder charge you could.
They charged Frank Martin with another murder.
And the warden, Mrs. Brockman, resigned and was subject to her own grand jury investigation, now into her prison and how her prison was being held. hell yeah and the superintendent A.G.
Stedman who actually wrote that she needed to be kept in that cage and they He actually wrote a thing saying, do not let her out of that cage.
Don't let her speak to anyone. Do not let her escape again.
He was a piece of shit. He resigned as well.
He should go to prison for that alone. Exactly.
And they found out that Frank had done it.
He said he shot her because they said, if you shoot her, we'll get you out of your sentence.
WONDERFUL. Yep. Now, Helen again became a very sympathetic character to everyone who was reading this.
And they kept her in a fucking cage. Oh, the mistreatment was outrageous.
Not even a word for it. Donations for flowers, funeral arrangements, everything came in from everywhere.
People were donating everything for her and her family.
People even donated funeral plots for her.
Wow. newspapers were running full pages about her story and an anonymous person took out a full page to write a huge thing about her.
And this is just a little excerpt from the Daughter of the White River book.
It says Helen was loyal and true to all who were straight with her.
The girls on the farm were all fond of her.
She never gossiped or said mean things about them.
So this is somebody she was in prison with.
In the room at night when the girls would gather around to gossip, Helen would be in her bed fixing her face and singing old time songs.
I have gotten in bed with her many a night to listen to her singing songs that my mother used to sing.
All the time I knew her, I never heard her curse.
So more and more and more came out about the reality of her situation in prison after her death.
One of the doctors that had seen her actually testified to the grand jury that he told prison officials, you cannot put her in that cage no they literally were like duh you can't put her back in there Like this is not something you can do.
Like destroy a cage. And they were like she's literally burning to death in there.
Like you're killing her slowly. Yeah it's like being in a hot car.
Yeah. Like they were like, she's literally burning from the inside out.
Like her organs are cooking. And... Yeah, and they said it was literally medieval torture.
It was also mentioned, he said in that grand jury testimony that she had had a heart attack.
I'm sure she did. And no one knew about it.
I'm sure she did. So they said whatever they did to her. she had a heart attack from it.
And when they put her in that cage, she was like, you can't put her in, they said, in fact the doctor said that he told them if you're going to put her in the fields, that's fine, but you can't have her overworked.
She's going to have another heart attack.
And they were also like, He said, if you want to put a ball and chain on her to keep her from running, that's fine.
But they were like, you can't. like she can't try to escape again you can't try to like run after her or anything she will have another heart attack right which nobody knew she even had one.
They just kept that all under wraps. Now, unfortunately by a technicality, Frank Martin was acquitted of murder.
Well, that's fucked. The technicality was a section 9691, and it basically said that that a guard can murder a convict to stop them from escaping.
He's not a guard, he's a murderer. A convicted murderer.
And that whole program of having inmates be guards for the women prison was... taken care of after this.
You really think that was going to end up well?
That was unbelievably... We have murderous humans guarding other... humans oh okay and this like murderous man watching over a bunch of women like are you kidding me that's safe no So her body was actually, so the funeral home, it was all paid for by like donations.
Yeah. But they put her body on display at the funeral home for everyone to come by and see.
It's real weird. The river people, their community were not pleased with it.
Of course not. That's weird. She ended up buried in an unmarked grave in St.
Charles next to the grave of her father, Cicero Smith. why did they not mark her grave well here's the thing so one of her best friends in life the man named john black who i mentioned earlier They grew up together.
He planted a cedar tree at her grave. that he removed as like a little baby tree from the banks of the White River to mark her.
Her grave. My whole body just said. And it's still there today.
Now you asked, why was she buried in an unmarked grave?
I did. How did she get to this burial place?
Well, in the middle of the night, John Black and others from the river broke into the funeral home and carried her body there.
Hell. Yes, to bury her where they knew she wouldn't have wanted to be buried, next to her father.
They didn't want her to be in the window of the funeral home.
No, that's so weird. She had already spoken. spent a day and a night being on display and they said they were sick of everyone looking at her.
They wanted her to have dignity and not be the show she was forced to be in life anymore.
They were like, this is it. Like this guy murdered her father and this was the rest of her life.
Yeah. That's so sad. That is tragic. Yeah.
And actually, so I told you that the author of that book, Daughter of the Wright River, talk to Elsie Brown, the sheriff's son who she grew up with.
There was an article called Avenging Angel, and it was in the Northwest Arkansas Democrat Gazette.
And this article was written by Sean Clancy.
And it said, in the late 70s, L.C. Brown was working as a policeman in Hot Springs.
So he became a policeman do wow following in the lawman footsteps of his arkansas county deputy sheriff father It was around this time that John Black got in touch with Brown again. and they had been friends as like boys, asking him to come over to DeWitt for a visit.
The river folk aren't a real talkative lot, and it took more than two visits before Black finally got around to telling Brown what he wanted.
Black had quietly tended the St. Charles Cemetery for years and he knew where Helen's unmarked grave was in the cemetery, because he planted that old cedar tree there.
He loved her. He said, I helped bury her.
Brown87 says of the conversation he had with Black, He said, promise me that you'll tell this story, the true story about Helen.
After I die, I want the story told. Brown was reluctant, but Black assured him, you'll figure it out.
I'm ruined. Now John Black died in 1979 and he made Elsie Brown promise to wait until his death. to reveal the location of where he'd buried Helen.
And Elsie did wait until 1979. A lot of people thought John and Helen were in love.
They were like, were they like love us? Maybe they were just best friends.
But Elsie said in the book, quote, John and Helen were not lovers.
They're just buddies is all. Ain't you ever had a buddy?
Yes. Which I was like, fuck yeah. Because not everything has to be a love story. no they were just best fucking like he loved he just loved her right and she loved him yeah like they were it sounds like they were like almost like brother and sister they were like soulmates in that way so lc brown told helen's story everywhere and helped create that book daughter of the white river And he was helping to create like documentaries about it.
He kept her memory and legacy alive and told us of how she was in life.
He passed away January 26, 2015 in his recliner in Arkansas.
His obituary says, LC Brown, 88, of Hot Springs, peacefully passed in his sleep in his recliner. in his home on January 26, 2015.
What a way to go. April 17th, 1926 in Arkansas County near his beloved White River.
He was preceded in death by his parents Lemuel and Estella Brown, by the love of his life, his wife, Anna Frank Brown.
His brother, John Homer, and sister-in-law, Charles C. Brown.
He hunted and trapped in the woods he cherished.
He served in the army during World War II and a Purple Heart Medal recipient.
Wow. He was a wonderful father, mechanic extraordinaire, hot springs police detective, long distance truck driver, and small business owner.
He was a contributor to a documentary film on the people of the White River and book of Daughter of the White River.
Now, the author, Denise White Parkinson of that book, is still fighting Elsie's fight to get a posthumous pardon for Helen Spence.
Oh, they should, obviously. Yeah, it hasn't happened yet that I could see.
I dug, dug, dug. I couldn't find anything that says it happened, but...
I want to see it happen. I absolutely want to see it happen.
Are you kidding me? She was put in a fucking cage.
That alone should be enough to get her apart. her mother her grandmother when they went back to talk to her after her death Her grandmother said she didn't believe that Helen had killed Jim Bohatz.
Really? She said she thought... there was some misguided way, like you said, that she believed she didn't want to be where she was.
She couldn't go home. So she was like, just put me back in prison because this is basically prison.
I just don't understand why they wouldn't let her go back to the river.
Like she didn't do anything wrong on the river.
That's the thing. Like, why couldn't she go back there?
Yeah. I don't know. I just was part of the whole parole, I guess.
But... It's interesting. It's an interesting story.
Obviously, vigilante justice isn't like... woo kill someone in a courtroom no like it's a very intense story there's so many layers to it wow where did you end up finding this I was looking for, I forget what other case I was like peeking at.
I was looking at like a case, another case in Arkansas, I believe.
And I was, and it just happened to pop up as like a book.
Okay. And I was like, ooh, Daughter of the White River and I just kind of like popped it open and I was like that looks interesting I'll give it a look I started reading it, could not stop, and was like, yep, this is my case.
I cannot stop. That was such an interesting, it was like different than anything you've really ever done.
That's, it felt like. I was like, I have to tell this story.
Oh, that was like gut-wrenching. And there was just so many like... that you're just like, what the fuck?
Yeah. You don't see the... the shots in the courtroom happening.
You don't see, you know, that punishment, whatever punishment they gave her.
I still want to know to this day what the fuck they did. to her.
I know. And then... I can't even imagine.
They probably just did like multiple horrific, horrific things to her.
Oh, I'm sure they did horrible things because...
Denise White Parkinson, who wrote the book, she said, You know, there's a lot written about prisons at that time because it was so horrific at that time.
But they said not a lot is written about women's prisons.
It's true. I was thinking that actually.
Yeah, and we didn't know that the same shit was happening in those prisons.
Probably even worse sometimes. So she wanted to make sure that was known too, but I can't tell you how much, I don't think there's any other books written on this case, but read that book about this case.
There's tons of articles too. I'll see if I can link a few of the articles too, because they're very fascinating.
The ones with Elsie Brown are really, really fascinating. yeah i just love that like the the sense of community well just like in like that uh john black like just like kept her like was like like he kept tending that that spot where they put her and just thinking about like It reminded me of the Fear Street, 1666.
Just fucking thinking that. When they get her body and they bury her themselves under the tree because that's the...
That's what you do when like you want someone to have dignity and they're wronged in death.
Well, I'm so happy that like he was able to do that for her and she was laid to rest next to her family.
Because it was like she had nobody. And she was with her dad.
Who she loved, obviously. Who everything was for.
So much, right. You know, like this whole thing...
I hope eventually they marked her grave.
They did. There's a mark there now. And there's a mark for Cicero's grave. and there's the tree there too and the tree is there is it in a cemetery do you know I think it is, yeah, but it's like off to the side.
So he had put it in like a place where it wouldn't be disturbed.
I would really love to go there someday.
I would love to see it. Yeah. Because I want to see that tree too.
Bring her some flowers. And... I just love that he uprooted, like, I think it was like a year old little cedar tree from the banks of the White River. river that's amazing where she spent her whole life like what a beautiful tribute to her right i just feel like i'm like because i know she like maybe people make up mad because like she killed people but I know.
It's a tough one. It's a very... different kind of case.
It's a weird case. It for sure is. I personally was rooting for Helen the whole time.
Well, and it's a sad... What happened to her later was just outrageous.
Yeah. I mean, it was completely outrageous.
It... And again, her grandmother doesn't think she killed Jim Bohatz, so...
What do you think? And there was no actual evidence that she did.
There was no physical evidence that pointed to it. i don't i think she definitely could have done it for sure yeah and i'm not saying you should you know murder anyone but of course not if she was you know doing anything in self-defense i was just gonna say realistically it sounded like it very well could have But it was so long ago and there's so little to go on that you can't really. say here or there and obviously you can't shoot people in the middle of a corridor No.
But, you know, the whole story is just a really fascinating look.
Sounds like a movie. It felt like, that's why I kept saying characters because it really felt like a movie.
Yeah, like an old-timey movie or book. I was like, how is this real? like how wow that was a really great case thanks i thought it was thank you a crazy one and you know like I the whole thing is just really tragic yeah but that was really sad I hate that That was the ending.
I know. He shot her. I was like, no, no.
I feel like I was like on the last page, like crying. and that they like set her up and everything it was so it was so gnarly they put a note in her cage as if she would have had fucking any room to write in her cage i love that disgusting yeah so that is the story of helen spence the swamp angel And we hope that you keep listening.
And we hope you keep it weird. But that's the way that you do this to anybody ever.
Yeah, not so weird that you do vigilante justice because that's not good.
No, and it doesn't end up well, clearly.
And not weird that you murder anyone anyways.
And that's so weird that you ever put anybody in a cage.
No. I don't even want to put... a corner yeah like I don't even want to put like a dog in a crate never mind like a fucking human in a cage none of this is okay fuck Thank you.
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