You're listening to Business English Pod, the Business English podcast for professionals on the move.
Hello, and welcome back to Business English Pod.
My name's Edwin, and I'll be your host for today's lesson on taking part in an external meeting.
When you think of business meetings, you might immediately think of staff meetings, project meetings or other internal meetings with people in your company.
But in business we often have to work with outside companies or organizations, so we have to deal with external meetings as well.
External meetings can be quite tricky situations.
Because everyone might have different goals and opinions, you need to be very diplomatic.
You want to be careful not to promise too much while trying to get others to commit.
In this way, external meetings are a lot like a negotiation, where you try to make an agreement that is in your favor.
In this back and forth of negotiation, you have to convince other people of your position, and when they attempt to convince you of something, you have to respond skillfully.
That could mean remaining noncommittal when you don't want to give a clear yes or no answer.
It might also mean saying that you don't have the power or responsibility to make a decision.
But if everyone remains noncommittal and says they can't make decisions, how can people come to an agreement?
Well, sometimes you need to introduce creative solutions or ideas.
But even when someone presents a good idea, you shouldn't always just agree right away.
Like I said, this is sort of like a negotiation, so you might want to express doubts about an idea rather than just accepting it immediately.
In today's dialogue we'll hear a meeting between several people discussing the construction of a strip or small shopping mall.
Jennifer is the architect on the new development, and Carlos is a consulting engineer.
They need to come to agreement with Frank, who represents the local government.
The meeting is chaired by Nikki, the project manager.
As you listen to the dialogue, try to answer the following questions.
One, why does Jennifer think the city should give the developer a break on the number of turn lanes?
Two, who does Frank say insists on having two turn lanes?
Three, what solution does Carlos suggest?
Alright, so I think we need to address some of the civils aspects first.
I'm thinking specifically about this issue of the turn lanes off Fortune Drive.
Frank, I think you had something to say on this?
Yes, just want to make sure we're all on the same page about having two separate right turn lanes off Fortune Drive into the mall.
One at Willow Road and one at Commerce.
Yeah, right.
I'm not so sure about that, Frank.
Willow Road, for sure.
But commerce?
I really think that just the one on Willow would work.
Well, look what happened with the development on Alta Vista.
They really should have had to...
Alta Vista isn't really comparable, though, is it?
Traffic is far heavier along that corridor.
We won't have near the same volume at our site.
Surely the city could give us a break on this one, given everything else we've agreed to?
I'd tend to agree.
Commerce should be fine without a turn lane.
It'd still be well within standards.
Well, it's really not up to me.
Planning is insisting on this.
And there's concern from residents in the neighborhood about traffic.
But just to be 100% clear, it wasn't actually suggested in the traffic study, right?
That's right, Nikki.
The traffic study just recommended the one at Willow Road.
So then, if planning is going to say it's necessary, I think it's on the city.
We agreed to take care of the one lane so I'm thinking the city could do the commerce entrance if it has to happen.
Well, I really don't know about that, Jennifer.
That's not usually the way it works.
Planning is expecting you guys to take care of all these access points.
But a second turn lane will steal another, what, several hundred feet off the property.
We've already agreed to a pretty big setback.
Okay, let me just suggest something here.
Would the city agree to a smaller setback if this lane goes in?
A smaller setback?
I thought we worked through that aspect of the design already.
I really don't think we can revisit it.
Well, just thought I'd put that out there, Frank.
You know, we need to come up with something today, otherwise we're going to be facing delays.
I'm not sure, guys.
I really doubt anyone would go for a change to the setback.
You know, it sets a precedent.
We give it to you, we have to give it to everybody.
Alright, let's just put this to one side for now and look at some of these other issues, and then we can come back to this later.
Now let's go through the dialogue again and look at the language and techniques that the group used in their conversation.
We join the meeting as the group is discussing an important issue about the design of the road in front of the new strip mall.
Alright, so I think we need to address some of the civils aspects first.
I'm thinking specifically about this issue of the turn lanes off Fortune Drive.
Frank, I think you had something to say on this?
Yes, just want to make sure we're all on the same page about having two separate right turn lanes off Fortune Drive into the mall.
One at Willow Road and one at Commerce.
Frank takes a pretty clear position on the issue of turn lanes into the new mall.
By saying he wants to make sure everyone is in agreement or on the same page, he makes it sound like his position is the most natural and logical one.
But as we will hear, not everyone agrees.
In fact, throughout the dialogue we will hear Jennifer and Carlos arguing diplomatically against Frank's position.
Yeah, right.
I'm not so sure about that, Frank.
Willow Road, for sure.
But commerce?
I really think that just the one on Willow would work.
Well, look what happened with the development on Alta Vista.
They really should have had two.
When Jennifer says, I'm not so sure about that, she's politely saying, I don't agree.
Because she represents the developer who will have to pay for the roadworks.
She wants fewer turn lanes.
But Frank, who represents the city government, wants more turn lanes to help traffic run smoothly.
To support his position, he mentions another development or construction project that should have had two turn lanes.
How does Jennifer respond to this?
Alta Vista isn't really comparable, though, is it?
Traffic is far heavier along that corridor.
We won't have near the same volume at our site.
Surely the city could give us a break on this one, given everything else we've agreed to?
Jennifer doesn't agree with the comparison that Frank has made.
She insists that they won't have the same amount of traffic and she asks Frank to give them a break on this issue.
Giving someone a break means being flexible or compromising, and Jennifer feels they deserve a break because they've agreed to many other changes already.
In an external meeting, you might have to deal with people who aren't very flexible.
It might seem like they can't be persuaded logically.
In this case, you might simply ask them to give you a break, especially if you've already compromised or shown flexibility.
Let's practice some other ways of persuading someone to give you a break.
We're really hoping you can show a bit of flexibility on this.
Listen, we could really use a bit of help here.
You know we've tried really hard to accommodate you guys, so we'd appreciate it if you could give us a little consideration.
Let's find out if Frank is willing to give the developer a break on the turn lanes.
I tend to agree.
Commerce should be fine without a turn lane.
It'd still be well within standards.
Well, it's really not up to me.
Planning is insisting on this, and there's concern from residents in the neighborhood about traffic.
Carlos shows his support for Jennifer's position.
He's a consulting engineer, and his claim that one lane would be within standards might just help to convince Frank.
But Frank won't give in and instead of providing reasons, this time he says it's not really his decision.
Rather, the city planning department insists on two lanes, and residents or people who live in the neighborhood want two as well.
We call this strategy passing the buck.
If you say it's not really your responsibility or decision, then it's useless for people to argue with you.
You don't have to provide reasons if it's not your position but someone else's.
What are some other ways of passing the buck?
Let's run through some more examples.
Well, to be honest, it's our senior administration that requires this.
I'm just passing on what our lead engineer has said.
I think it's actually the contractors who are supposed to take care of that.
I see what you're saying, but I think it's really up to Henry.
Now let's get back to the dialogue and remember the issue of how many turn lanes isn't just about what is necessary, but about who will pay for them.
But just to be 100% clear, it wasn't actually suggested in the traffic study, right?
That's right, Nikki.
The traffic study just recommended the one at Willow Road.
So then, if planning is going to say it's necessary, I think it's on the city.
We agreed to take care of the one lane so I'm thinking the city could do the commerce entrance if it has to happen.
A traffic study which would examine how much traffic would flow into and pass the new development recommended only one turn lane.
This is even more support for Carlos and Jennifer's position.
But Frank has already shown very clearly that he won't change his mind.
So what does Jennifer do?
She switches her approach.
Rather than saying that they don't need a second turn lane, she suggests that it is on the city, which means they should pay for it.
How does Frank respond to this suggestion?
Well, I really don't know about that, Jennifer.
That's not usually the way it works.
Planning is expecting you guys to take care of all these access points.
Frank doesn't want to say yes or no to Jennifer's suggestion and so he remains noncommittal.
Saying I really don't know, and that's not usually the way it works helps him avoid giving a clear answer.
In external meetings, you might remain noncommittal because you don't want to give in too easily.
Giving an easily might create expectations on the other side, and sometimes you really don't have the authority to agree to something.
In any case, you can avoid an answer with noncommittal expressions that say neither yes or no.
Let's try some more ways of remaining noncommittal.
Yeah, I can't really say for sure.
It's a nice idea, but we'd have to see how things play out.
Hmm.
Maybe I can see about that.
Well, I guess it's something we could look into.
So does Jennifer finally back off her position after Frank remains noncommittal?
But a second turn lane will steal another, what, several hundred feet off the property.
We've already agreed to a pretty big setback.
Okay, let me just suggest something here.
Would the city agree to a smaller setback if this lane goes in?
No.
Jennifer finds yet another reason why two turn lanes is a bad idea.
At this point, Frank and Jennifer clearly can't come to an agreement.
And it sounds like the discussion is stuck.
So what do we do when agreement is difficult?
Well, one thing we can do is suggest new ideas or solutions, as Carlos does.
He says, let me just suggest something here to let people know he's about to float a new idea.
If you use a special expression to introduce a new idea or solution, it can get people to listen more carefully and even keep an open mind.
Let's practice some more expressions you can use to float an idea.
So, how about this for an idea?
Well, maybe there's another way to go about this.
Can I just throw out a suggestion here?
Okay, I get your point, but hear me out for a second.
The solution Carlos suggested was accepting two turn lanes in exchange for a smaller setback.
The setback is how far from the road a developer is allowed to build.
A smaller setback would be good for the developer and Jennifer, because it would give them more building space.
So Carlos' idea would satisfy both sides.
But is Frank open to this idea?
A smaller setback?
I thought we worked through that aspect of the design already.
I really don't think we can revisit it.
Well, just thought I'd put that out there, Frank.
You know, we need to come up with something today, otherwise we're going to be facing delays.
I'm not sure, guys.
I really doubt anyone would go for a change to the setback.
You know, it sets a precedent.
We give it to you, we have to give it to everybody.
When Frank responds negatively, Carlos reminds him that they need to come up with something or find a solution today or face delays.
He's trying to make Frank more open to making a compromise.
But Frank is firm in his position, which is often necessary in external meetings.
There are some issues you might decide never to compromise on, and so you can resist suggestions and ideas by expressing doubts.
Again, Frank says he's not sure, and he doubts people in the city government would agree to it.
By continually expressing doubt and not agreeing to what Jennifer and Carlos are asking, they might give up and Frank might get the second turn lane that he wants.
So what are some other ways of expressing doubt about an idea?
Well, I really don't know about that.
Yeah, well, do you really think that would work?
It seems like a pretty slim chance, don't you think?
I'd have to think about that, but I kind of doubt it.
It sure doesn't sound like they're going to agree on the turn lanes anytime soon.
So Nikki steps in.
All right, let's just put this to one side for now and look at some of these other issues.
And then we can come back to this later.
Sometimes, when a problem can't be solved in a meeting, it's a good idea just to move on and try again later, as Nikki says.
Jennifer has asked for a break from the city and Carlos has proposed a solution, but Frank simply refuses to agree to anything.
Now let's practice some of the language we learned in today's lesson.
Imagine you work for an organization that is partnering with the city on a small development.
You're in a meeting with the city planners, working out some of the details of the project.
You'll hear a cue by the city planner.
Then I'll give you a suggestion for what you can say in response.
We'll guide you through each step in the practice and provide an example answer for each response.
Ready?
Let's give it a go.
So, like I said, we're going to need a full inspection by Friday.
Start by saying that you really hope they can be a bit flexible.
Answer I see, but we were really hoping you could be a bit flexible on this.
I'm sorry, but we need an inspection report before the weekend.
Now float the idea that you do the inspection, but they write the report themselves.
Answer.
How about this then?
We'll do the inspection, but you guys write the report yourselves.
Further on in the meeting, another planner brings up a new point.
Listen to the queue and our suggested response before answering.
We were hoping we could split the costs on this project 50-50.
Start by passing the buck by saying it's really up to the senior partners.
Answer.
Well, that's really up to the senior partners, not me.
But you do agree in principle that we're going to share the costs, right?
Now remain noncommittal by saying it's something you could look into.
Answer.
Um, I guess that's something we could look into.
Alright, but I think you guys should at least pay for the equipment.
Now express doubt about the possibility of paying for the equipment.
Answer.
Well, I'd have to think about that, but I kind of doubt it.
Now let's practice some of the vocabulary we've covered in this lesson.
In a moment, you'll hear a series of sentences with a word replaced with a beep.
Repeat each sentence, including the missing word.
For example, if you hear, You can say Tomorrow we're going to need you at the construction site by 7 o'clock.
After each response, we'll provide the correct answer.
Let's begin.
Answer Let's put this issue aside for now and revisit it at the next meeting.
So are we all on the same about the need for some spending cuts?
Answer.
So are we all on the same page about the need for some spending cuts?
Most of the neighbourhood's... Support the new power plant.
Answer.
Most of the neighbourhood's residents support the new power plant.
Come on, Charlie.
Can't you give us a On the price this one time?
Answer come on, charlie.
Can't you give us a break on the price this one time?
We've reached the end of this lesson, the first in our series on taking part in an external meeting.
Today, we've looked at ways to persuade someone to give you a break and how to float ideas.
We've also covered how to pass the buck, remain noncommittal and express doubts.
Thanks for listening, and see you again soon.
