This is an All Ears English podcast episode 2071.
Need to convince a decision maker?
Learn how to nail it in English.
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We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection, with your American hosts, Lindsay McMahon, the English adventurer, and Michelle Kaplan, the New York radio girl coming to you from Colorado and New York City, USA.
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In our daily lives, we sometimes have to convince someone of something, whether it's a boss, a spouse or a parent.
Today, find out the English vocabulary and grammar choices that will get you what you want.
Listen in today.
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Michelle, what's going on?
How you doing good Lindsay, how are you?
I'm excited to be recording today yeah, because it's my favorite thing to do at all ears English.
What about you?
What are you up to today?
You have a busy day in New York.
Well, my son finished his summer camp, so he's home for a while and um, but luckily we had um his, their babysitter, coming to help a little bit so i could get some things done um, but it was still a little hectic and i had quite a quite a while with them anyway, so it was hectic but it was good.
Um, how about you?
Yeah no, all good.
I have a question for you, michelle.
Are you ready, okay?
So when you were a kid or, let's say, when you were a teenager, were your parents protective of you?
Were they kind of protect you or do they just encourage you to go out into the world and have a lot of different experiences?
I think they encouraged me.
I think I maybe was protective of myself.
Like they would encourage me.
And I like I was always I think I've talked about like being a little homesick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That kind of thing.
But they actually they never held me back or tried to discourage me from doing something, even on my own.
Right.
Like they had told me to go to sleepaway camp like they they were.
Let's see.
When I I lived in New York for a semester in college, I did I did study abroad, things like that.
And so it was always kind of like those things were encouraged.
And that's the view that I
I'm hoping that I'll take as a parent as my kids grow up, but I know it must be hard.
What about you?
I'm sure it's not easy, right?
As a parent.
But yeah no, my parents were pretty.
I think my parents were when I was in high school.
They were worried about, you know, dating and boys and things like that.
But in terms of once I was out of high school, they were very much like okay yeah, go travel the world.
Yeah.
Live in New York city, do what you need to do.
They really kind of went from like a hundred percent protective to zero.
Yeah.
It was a big flip.
But yeah, today's episode is going to be interesting because we're going to answer a listener's question about this.
But today's episode is more about what today?
Today we're going to be talking about convincing someone or someone who is a decision maker that you can do something.
So we're talking today a little bit about convincing somebody based on a listener's question, but we're going to tie it into something that we all have to deal with, like getting permission for something.
At every age, it seems.
You still have to ask sometimes for permission, not necessarily from a parent, but you might need it from a boss.
It could be a variety of things.
Yeah, sometimes we have to angle things.
You know, sometimes it's not necessarily asking permission from a spouse, but you have to get their buy-in on certain things to make it work right.
Um, but anyways, we'll get to that in just a minute, but first michelle, where do our listeners go if they want to see the transcripts from today's episode?
Yeah, so guys get the real-time transcripts on our app.
You can follow along.
So go get that.
That's on Android and iOS.
And you can get the app at allearsenglish.com slash app.
All right.
Good stuff.
So who asked this question?
Which one of our amazing listeners?
Do we have the name?
I guess the name is kind of jumbled up here.
Yes.
I don't have the exact name.
But Lindsay, could you read a part of the question.
Uh okay, this is one of our listeners says how can i talk with my parents about a time abroad?
Meaning we think they're asking to go abroad right, wanting to go abroad.
My parents are strict and they don't even let me go outside at night.
So it sounds like this listener is on the younger side, is struggling with strict parents, but he or she wants to go abroad and travel.
So so this is a great question and it really does bring me back.
So again Um yeah, I think you're.
This listener is trying to say they want to go abroad, but no, their parents might not like that idea.
Um, so I, that's what we're going to go with.
Please let us know if you need a follow, have any follow up questions.
Um, so, and remember, uh, Lindsay, did we want to talk some, uh, talk about our reviewers?
Well, yeah, before we get into answering the question, right.
I want to say thank you to our amazing reviewers who reviewed our app.
We just mentioned the app, so thank you to abn lcwic azade j and this person said hi, i'm ozzy, a persian girl in new zealand.
Thanks for this awesome practical app.
I love the way you talk and teach useful tips in every episode.
It is nearly seven months that i'm using the app, nearly every day michelle, that's amazing.
It's amazing.
That is so great.
Oh my gosh, that is great.
Thank you, guys so much.
Yeah, all right, so get into it, michelle.
I mean, did you have a moment in which you had to convince someone um, of something, or what do you think?
Well, so i was always, like i said, i was always encouraged to study abroad.
My brother did it and it was always assumed that i would do it, but i was.
I used to be very homesick, so it was hard for me to imagine doing it, and i almost didn't study abroad because i was in a band oh, and i was very serious about the band.
You would have regretted that later.
Yes, and i and i got that feeling like you know, because i don't know.
So it's very common when people study abroad uh, to study abroad in your second semester, junior year.
Yeah, i don't know if that's what i did, the fall, but yeah yeah yeah um, so sometime in junior year.
But i didn't do it in my junior year because i thought i wasn't going to do it.
But then i remember your senior year.
Yeah, i did first semester, senior year, because i almost didn't do it.
I i started to like i look online about summer programs and i i was just getting this feeling like wait wait wait, i i'm gonna totally miss the boat.
Yeah yeah, and a lot of times, you know, people don't want to do it, maybe senior year because it's like your last year of school, but i just I was like no, I knew that I was going to regret it.
So luckily I did it.
And I wouldn't trade that experience.
But when I was abroad when I was a senior, I actually found another opportunity to live abroad for after college.
And my parents came to visit me in London where I was.
And I wanted to present them with the idea.
And I remember telling them about it at dinner because they wanted me to get a job after graduation.
But it was a terrible time to get a job in 2009.
Okay.
Oh my gosh.
Worst time in the history of the 1900s.
Wow.
Or the 2000s rather.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
So I did a lot of soul searching and a lot of talking to them and realized like I you know, I found an internship and I lived abroad.
I convinced them.
And it was another amazing experience.
That's awesome, Michelle.
I love it.
So you had to sit down and go through this moment of essentially presenting your case, right?
You had to do that.
Yeah.
It wasn't because they were against me going abroad, but it was kind of like oh, you have to, you're graduating college, you should just go get a job.
And so I kind of use the economy.
Smart, smart, smart.
I love it.
So there's always an angle we want to take.
And so that's true skill, right?
Michelle, for all of our listeners, whether you're trying to talk to a boss about something, family member, a parent, I'm excited to get into it right here, in just a minute.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay, Michelle.
So let's show our listeners what you did, you know, how we could do it.
In English.
Okay.
Just before we do that, guys, we want to direct you to another episode.
So this is about connection, right?
Really connecting with somebody, about really getting permission for somebody or getting a buy-in, as Lindsay said.
So that was episode 2060.
Who's the last person you connected with in English?
So listen to that.
So, Lindsay, if you are trying to convince a decision maker of something, what should you do?
Oh, I mean...
The first thing that you should do is obviously explain that you understand their position.
And we're going to give you guys the language to do this right now.
But it is really important because if the person doesn't feel like you understand them or you hear them, you're not getting anywhere, right?
Yeah, exactly.
So you have to come at it instead of just like argumentative, you have to show that you do understand.
So in this situation, for this scenario, you could say something like I understand that, it's a scary thought, let me go abroad right, um?
Or you know, in another situation, maybe you're talking with your partner and you want to take a, you know, two-week vacation and they have the kids or whatever something, or they have the two kids at home right, maybe something like that right, so you can say oh, i understand that it's a lot for me to ask.
Yeah totally, i mean, you have to kind of validate their feelings, because you have to sort of get the emotions out of the whole situation as much as you can.
So I understood.
So the key phrasing here, Michelle would be, I understand that.
Right.
I understand.
I understand that.
And then the second thing is to explain, you know, the positive, like why it would be great.
So you could say something like, I just really think this experience could enrich my life.
But it sounds like you did something even smarter.
So your parents were worried about the economy.
For me, yeah, for that situation.
So you said that you kind of turned it around.
Like, what was your... core argument.
Did you say I won't be able to get a job if I go back to New York?
Is that kind of?
Yeah, I said I said I said it's 2009.
Well, I didn't say this all at first.
I didn't bring this up at the very beginning.
But OK, like because they were kind of like, oh, well, think about it.
We're not really too happy with the idea.
And then, as I thought about it more, and things were getting worse and worse.
That's when it kind of more naturally came up.
Yeah, it became kind of obvious.
But if I were to have said it the first time, I might have said something.
Like you know, I understand that I just studied abroad and I should be getting a job after college.
And I understand you feel that I just I want to get a job.
But it's 2009.
I feel like you know, instead of trying to get a job for six months, I could get an internship experience abroad right yeah, maybe use that and say this time will actually help me make more money in the long run right, or get a better job in the long run, because i'll be adding to my professional resume by interning, something like that right uh nice, and then what is the next?
So explain what you would do to be careful.
So, being careful again.
This is framed kind of more like with a teenager asking permission to their parents, but It could be for anything.
Like, I think not necessarily to be careful, but explain what you would do to make the situation okay.
Right.
So like, uh, so in this scenario, oh, I would live with a few roommates.
I would call or text every couple of days.
Like.
So you know, um know, just sharing like.
Or, if it's in another situation, you're trying to convince your boss to let you take a month off.
Yes, you know.
Oh, i would make sure all my like i had my colleagues uh, you know i would assign work uh, i would get everything done ahead of time that i need to.
You know that kind of thing.
So just explaining like, what you would do to plan that things would be okay.
Yeah, so the key phrasing there, the key grammar there, is using i would, Or you could also be more strategic still and say I will, if you want to really hedge on this negotiating factor.
How does that make it different?
If you say, I'll do this, as opposed to like, I'll make sure I call every night, right?
Versus I would call every night.
How does that change your argument?
Well, I think saying it and I will do something is making you sound a little more confident.
Yeah personally, I don't know.
That's what I'm gonna happen.
It's like saying that yeah, it's saying that it's a done deal yeah, it's gonna happen and here's what I'm gonna do to make it okay right yeah, so obviously this depends on who's talking.
Are you like a teenager talking to your parents versus are you talking to a peer or maybe a spouse?
Right where it's, the power structure is equal.
Uh, it just depends.
But guys, you should know in English, I would versus I will will create a different feeling in what you're saying.
That's the interesting part.
That's true.
That's very interesting.
And then, you know, tell them something of something positive.
So for the study abroad thing, you could say, oh, like tell them you want them to come visit.
Like so you could say something like maybe we could make a family trip out of it and you could come visit me.
Or, if it's another situation oh I um, I'll bring back, I'll bring the kids back lots of presents and I'll call you.
Know like um, I would be able to teach them about it.
Or if you're like taking a break from work, oh, I'm going to come back.
So refreshed and get ready to go on this new project.
Right, exactly.
So frame it in a way that helps the person who you're asking permission from, right?
Frame it in a way that adds value for everyone, right?
So it should be, this should be a win-win situation, I think, right?
It's never going to work out in the long run.
It's just one person taking all the time.
So see how, that's how good negotiations work is win-win.
Both people come out of it feeling like things are okay, right?
It's not perfect, the scenario, but it's going to work.
That should be the goal.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And then it never hurts to bring some sort of evidence if it would be useful.
So like, for example, on CIEEorg, there was an article Why Study Abroad's Top Seven Benefits of Studying Abroad from November 7th 2022.
So, like you know, just showing something outside of yourself as to why it would be helpful or beneficial.
So maybe talk about somebody who's done a similar experience that's benefited from it.
But the thing is to understand where that other person is coming from.
That's what Lindsay said.
Like.
The key word, I think, here is to validate them and assure them that this would be great for your growth and there would be other benefits to it.
Right, exactly?
I mean, if you know and you should know something about the person, if social proof really matters to them and some people it does, some people it doesn't then, pulling in that you know that fact like, for example, you know, Steve Jobs, he created Apple, or he grew Apple to this incredible success.
He dropped out of college right, he didn't finish college, and if you're, I don't recommend dropping out of college.
It's always good to finish your degree.
But if you're in that scenario and you want that's the argument you're making let's say to your mentors or your parents, maybe through saying jobs didn't finish college.
Right, using that social proof.
Okay yeah yeah, that's good, that's good.
Do we have time for a role play?
Oh, let's do a role play real quick michelle, let's do it.
We'll do it real quick, all right, so we're gonna go back because, for our listener who asked the specific about the situation, we're gonna do it.
Um, so here lindsay, i'm your mom Okay,
Wow.
All right.
That's intense.
Here we go.
So mom, I wanted to talk to you about something.
Not that study abroad thing again, Lindsay.
I told you it's not going to happen.
Mom, I understand that it's a scary thought to let me go abroad.
It sure is.
I just really think that this experience would enrich my life.
You can enrich your life here.
Well, I actually found this article about why study abroad is so beneficial.
Will you look at it?
Fine.
I know you're uncomfortable with it would have roommates and be in touch with you frequently, so you know i'm okay.
Also, i was thinking maybe you guys could come visit me over spring break.
Hmm well, that would be fun.
All right, i'll check out the article.
Thank you, no promises, i know.
Okay okay, i don't think we have time to go through it today michelle, but guys go back, rewind this episode and listen again to that role play.
You'll see where those key phrases came out.
Yeah yes, exactly lots to go on there, lindsay.
What's the takeaway for today?
Guys, everyone is going to need to convince someone of something at some point in their lives.
Whether you're a teenager convincing your parents, or whether you're an employee talking to a boss about taking time off.
You're going to need to use this and always come, try to come away, making both sides feel like they have won.
That is, i feel, like the secret to success.
It is a negotiation right.
No matter what you think, it is a negotiation.
The other person has to feel successful.
Like they're kind of benefiting from this thing.
That's the key.
Yeah.
Awesome.
I love it.
All right.
Well, this was a fun one.
And to our listener, we hope that you do get to have the experience that you wish.
All right.
Sounds good, Michelle.
I'll see you very soon on the show again.
Take care.
All right.
Bye.
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