This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 1850.
Two questions about gals and girls in English.
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In American culture, should you refer to women as girls or gals?
Today, we dive into how these words can be used and why it's so important to move away from labeling according to gender, so that you can connect with people on another level.
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Hey, Aubrey, I have a question for you today.
Oh, let's hear it.
So when's the last time you hung out with the gals?
Oh, I have some really good neighbor friends, some ladies that I hang out with a lot.
And we went and got margaritas at a Mexican restaurant right before I headed to Idaho.
And they were delicious.
I got a strawberry margarita, salt on the rim.
Oh my heck, it was so good.
Oh, wow.
Yes.
I love margaritas.
Yes.
My favorite, I think.
Oh.
Yeah.
So fun.
And time with the gals.
That's so fun, right?
You're good friends, you know, being yourself out in the world.
Such a good time.
I know, right?
I feel like sometimes you have to hold something, some things back with certain groups of friends, but sometimes you'll have a certain group of friends that you know so well, you have so much in common that you really can just be laid back, be yourself.
There's no stress.
It's so nice.
I love that.
I know all our listeners probably have that too, and they know what that feels like.
So that's something, you know, that's a human feeling, right?
So good.
Yes.
For sure.
This is going to be interesting today, guys.
We've had two listener questions about when it's appropriate to use the words gal and girl.
And these are such good questions because not a lot of people think about it.
Some people, I think, use these words not realizing they might be causing offense.
So I'm grateful for the questions and I'm excited to talk about it.
Yeah guys, part of what we want to do for you on All Ears, English is not just the grammar, the vocabulary.
We're here to show you how to connect.
And connection is also understanding kind of the deeper context, right?
Getting the society, the culture, understanding the norms, right?
That's what we're talking about here for connection.
So should I read Masood's question?
Yeah.
Let's go with question number one.
Question one.
And this was Masood wrote his question in an app review.
So thank you for using the All Ears English app and thank you for reviewing us.
Here we go.
I'm not quite sure how I found you two years ago, but it's been one of the best lucks ever.
Thank you.
Thank you.
It's time to ask my, I love it too.
It's time to ask my question.
Is it okay to call a group of girls guys?
When should we use gal then?
What's the difference between gals and guys?
Your loyal listener, Masoud from Iran.
Wow.
Good question.
Yeah.
So first of all, it definitely depends on the situation, right?
I will call a group of girls guys or a mixed group guys in an informal situation.
It's usually not disrespectful to call both men and women guys, but it does depend very much on the situation who's present.
Yeah, I think it really depends on the situation.
It is okay.
I think a lot of times if you're addressing just a group of adult women, also using ladies is nice.
It's a little bit more respectful.
Would you say that?
Yeah, for sure.
Right.
Yeah.
And you also see that more in certain industries like the wedding industry.
Right.
You see that a lot like trying on bridal gowns.
Oh, ladies.
Right.
There's a lot of that, I would say.
Yes, definitely.
I feel like gals is very informal.
So for sure, in a more formal meeting or formal work situation, I would instead say like everyone hi everyone, let's get started.
Or maybe ladies and gentlemen, which is quite formal, but it's good if there's a meeting or you're on a call where you haven't met everyone.
And there are both men and women present.
That's appropriate.
Yeah, I think it's better when it's a more formal situation.
As you said, get away from gender, kind of right.
That's what we're doing by saying everyone and, ladies and gentlemen, don't point out the gender to address people right.
That's a good rule of thumb, I think.
Yeah, for sure.
And gal, it is just the female equivalent of guy, but it is less common to say gals, right?
When we're having an Allers English meeting, I'll say, hey guys, what's up?
I wouldn't say hello gals, right?
To me, it sounds a little older.
It is a little old fashioned.
A little old fashioned.
Or sometimes we'll say it sort of playfully, right?
You'll hear a group addressed as guys and gals in the West.
Sometimes that'll happen in an informal situation like...
At a barbecue or at a country dance, something like that.
They'd be like all right guys and gals, grab your partner.
You'll for sure hear this in the movies, too.
But sometimes there's sort of Western themed things.
I could for sure hear that there.
All right.
Do we have any other vocabulary, any other options that you've heard women say when they're talking about just their female friends?
For sure.
Like that question you asked at the beginning when's the last time you hung out with the gals right?
Just means your girlfriends.
And I've heard the expression gal pal to just mean your female friend.
Right.
Or my gals.
Just meaning my friends.
Yeah.
And then you've probably heard of Galentine's Day, which is when usually single girls are still celebrating Valentine's Day with their girlfriends.
Yes.
I love that term.
That's so fun.
I definitely celebrated a couple of Galentine's Days back in the day.
Nice.
So it's not like it's inappropriate to use it, but it really depends on the context.
It would be odd to use gal, to call anyone a gal in most situations.
So I would stay away from it unless you're talking about your very closest girlfriends.
Yeah, and I think just to say this is a good place to put this in gender norms are changing right.
People are a lot more flexible these days in terms of how they identify, which is fantastic.
And I love that our society is accepting that little by little.
Right.
So being careful.
I'm not sure if we're going to address the guys piece here a little bit later, Aubrey.
But you know, being careful about just addressing people by their gender, when maybe you don't know how they identify.
Right.
That's a key piece there.
Yeah, exactly.
And that is a little bit interesting, right?
This, this question was a little more about gal, but I think we dive into it here.
Like when is it okay to call a group guys, right?
Usually, Whether people are male or female or however they identify in general.
When you say guys, usually you're just meaning everyone.
You're not talking about gender.
But it could be that people in that group don't want to be called guys, and so we do have to be sensitive to that.
Yeah, this is something that I'm trying to like.
I'm trying to break the habit around certain friends of mine who identify as non-binary, and it's not easy.
It's really embedded as a habit.
Right.
And even if you're trying to be very tough, like it just comes out of your mouth.
Hey, guys, do you guys want this?
Do you want that?
Right.
Do you want soda or beer?
Right.
It just comes out of your mouth.
So we want to start to be a little bit more intentional about what we're saying.
The words we're saying.
Yeah.
Right.
It's really tricky.
So what would you in that situation?
What would you say instead?
Because I do.
In my mind, I think of guys as guys and girls.
I'm not, you know, maybe there's a better option.
Well, and that's why I'm not.
I'm not sure if it's, I don't.
I haven't directly asked them whether that's offensive.
But I think that you know, just by trying to make the effort a little bit more, it probably they appreciate it.
Yeah, I think I've heard them say, like in a group, like something like y'all just using y'all, but that feels like I'm from the South now.
I kind of love that though.
Hey y'all, like we'll all go a little more Southern in order to, or just say everyone.
Hey everyone.
Hey everybody.
So I think gender is pretty loaded, right?
I think that's the key point here.
Should we move on to the next question, Aubrey?
And he had had a meeting with two employees, women, one was older and one was younger.
And when they arrived in his office, he said to break the ice and start the meeting.
Hey, girls, let's get started.
After the meeting the young lady left and the older one stayed and said I have to tell you it is very rude to call a woman girl.
This is used for kids and is very disrespectful.
Because we fought a lot against male chauvinism in this company.
And then the question is, was she just maybe in a bad mood or is there sense in that?
And I can assure he had no meaning to be offensive.
There was no sarcasm in his tone of voice.
Thank you in advance, girls.
Oops, help me.
So I love that she's kind of adding like, can I call you girls?
The All Ears English team, is that appropriate?
That's so funny.
That's such a good question.
We do a lot of our listeners do say that.
And that's okay with me.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say that I'm offended by that.
Are you are you offended by that?
And you know, when they write us questions, our listeners?
No, definitely.
Definitely not.
Right.
Many people will call us girls and we don't find it offensive because here's why.
When I listen to many episodes of a podcast, I feel like I know the hosts.
We share so many personal stories and examples that you guys feel like you know us.
You do.
You know us because we share so much about ourselves.
And when you know someone well.
Yeah.
Who's fairly young.
It's appropriate to call them girls.
It's not offensive.
Yes, exactly.
We want you guys to feel close to us that you know us.
So that's perfect.
But I also really understand why in this context it was offensive.
And yeah, the guy, the man may not have known.
I may not have thought about it and probably didn't.
Right.
It's not like he's trying.
But that is how sexism happens.
Right.
Exactly.
Under the surface.
Right.
Because girl does imply fairly young and can be interpreted as meaning inexperienced.
Yeah.
So in the business world for colleagues, it's really evolving to not use this for women, especially in formal situations like a meeting.
They clearly were not close friends.
That's not the kind of relationship where that would be appropriate.
Right.
And this woman is not alone.
Many women would not want to be called girl in that situation.
Definitely.
So that makes total sense.
Yeah, I think she had every right to be upset.
Yeah.
And I like what you said earlier in the episode.
He could definitely instead say ladies, which is becoming more common and is considered more respectful.
If you had to say, hey, ladies, how's it going today?
I feel like that's respectful.
Yeah.
I mean, I think in the social space, not in the business space, you could say friends, right?
Hi, friends.
That's something I've heard recently.
What else, Aubrey?
And yeah, it just really depends on how formal the situation is.
I would say for anyone out there working in the business world avoid calling women girls or a girl right.
But there are times...
Just like this woman stated, you can use girls to refer to children or maybe a group of girlfriends.
I'll say I was hanging out with the girls just like I would say the gals, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
And that's totally fine, especially because you're referring to your own friends that way, right?
Right.
It's that relationship where you know them well.
You have – there aren't these – formal professional walls that have to be respected.
Yeah, I think the problem with Carlota's situation is who said it and where it happened, right?
Exactly.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
And what else, Aubrey?
So let's make a note here that for a long time, this phrase like a girl was an insult, right?
You're going to see this everywhere in TV and movies.
Someone will say, like with sports you hit like a girl, you run like a girl, you fight like a girl or maybe like
Stop crying like a girl.
It was used as an insult.
It's terrible.
We see it all the time.
Luckily, we're evolving away from this.
Yeah, exactly.
Because why is that an insult to be like a woman?
Right.
Why is that an insult to be doing something right?
Right.
Gender norms are changing, like I said, just starting to define people a little bit less by their gender, which is refreshing.
Yes, it is refreshing.
And that shouldn't imply weakness, right?
Doing something like a girl should imply being smart, talented, confident, right?
All the things girls should grow up knowing.
That they are and that they are capable of.
That's what we want for the next generation.
So this really is a good change that's happening and we need to continue to, you know, continue that change.
Have you seen A League of Their Own?
I'm sure you have, right?
Yes, I have.
I love that show.
Oh, my God.
That's what I'm thinking about right now.
Because you know it was guys.
If you haven't seen it yet, it's a great movie about baseball.
How, when all the guys were out at World War Two, they had the women come and take the men's places in a national basketball baseball league.
It's just a fantastic Madonna.
Who else is in it?
Rosie O'Donnell and Tom Hanks as the coach.
It's so good.
I need to see it again.
And so there's a lot of sexist references in there, but it makes sense because of the time period, of course.
That's the thing.
When you watch a show like that, you have to.
There's some suspension of reality where you're putting yourself in that historical era and recognizing unfortunately, this is how it was back then.
Oh my gosh, totally, totally.
So guys, go and rent that immediately.
It's a fantastic movie.
It's so good.
All right.
Anything else our listeners need to know here, Aubrey?
Yeah, I think that...
This is something that's worth, I'm glad we brought this up, it's worth avoiding, right?
Avoiding these negative, you know, potentially offensive words.
It's really good to be aware, to be thoughtful and respectful whenever possible.
And so I'm grateful.
This episode, I think, gives you guys a really good idea of why some of these words shouldn't be used, depending on the context.
Yeah, I love it.
I mean, avoid the landmines, right?
The key to connection is making people feel accepted, right?
Getting away from always defining people by their gender and looking for other things to connect with them on.
Like, who are they as a person, right?
Yes, exactly, right?
With today's tips, you can make sure you are speaking respectfully, avoiding offending, because that is what can really disrupt that connection.
If you hurt someone's feelings or offend them, it's an uphill battle to build that connection again.
You got it.
Whether you're in business or whether you're just in life or meeting new people in your community.
Guys,
So keep that in mind.
And great topic.
I'm glad we brought this up today, Aubrey.
Yeah, me too.
Thanks, Lindsay.
All right.
Talk soon.
Bye.
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