welcome to the ally on the run show i'm your host ally feller and this is where i talk with people who are doing exciting things on the run and beyond from professional athletes and celebrity runners to the everyday amateur and back of the pack runner we are here to celebrate everyone and anyone who enjoys a life on the run whether you find yourself running towards something big or or away from something that has been holding you back, I am here to hold your hand and help you pick up the pace.
My guest today is Jordan Hogan.
Hogan is her married name, but I know people still know and refer to her as Jordan Hussay.
It's Jordan Hussay!
She's here on the Alley on the Run show, and soon her title will be mom.
So we talked quite a bit about pregnancy expectations versus reality, including the road to getting pregnant, which was not an easy one for Jordan and her husband, Ryan.
Jordan and Ryan are the founders at Hogan Performance After spending her life racing and competing Jordan is now finding so much joy in this chapter as a coach So does she have dreams about returning to professional running after baby?
We talk about that Jordan still holds the record for the fastest marathon debut by an American woman She made her debut at the 2017 Boston Marathon running 2 -23 and finishing third She also finished third at the 2017 Chicago Marathon later that year, this time running a huge personal best of 2 -20 -57.
Then she had to take some time off for injuries and then found her way back onto that podium again in third place at the 2019 Boston Marathon. Jordan saw tremendous success in her career.
As a University of Oregon Duck, she became an 18 -time All -American.
She was an absolute phenom.
She immediately signed with Nike out of college.
Jordan was coached by Alberto Salazar and then was briefly coached by Paula Radcliffe before joining Union Athletics Club under Pete Julian.
I will say right up front, this is a nice light conversation if you're into that sort of thing.
Jordan's been through a lot.
She lost her mom suddenly and unexpectedly in 2016 and in a very different way, lost a relationship with her longtime coach. This conversation, not about any of that.
This is about where Jordan is at now.
It is about Coach Jordan.
It is about mom to be Jordan.
And unsurprisingly, if you listen to this show, it is about our shared love for the New York Times games.
I am delighted to share that since we chatted, Jordan let me know that she has been using trash as her starter word, and it is paying off beautifully.
Please enjoy this conversation with Jordan Hogan.
all right my friends you know her as Jordan Hesse she is now Jordan Hogan soon to be mom how does that feel Jordan welcome to the show how are you doing 34 weeks pregnant today congratulations I'm so happy to see you how you doing thank you Allie I'm just so honored to be on the show we were just talking about Annie and how she's just a mini you and I just hope that but baby and I can be like that too.
So definitely hope to follow in your footsteps and we can talk about, yeah, pregnancy, running and all that good stuff.
Yay, and this is a long time coming.
We were on a flight together.
We have met in person.
We were on a flight from San Francisco to Eugene right in the middle of world championships in 2022.
And I love that we both remember this, which is that you had just gotten a dog and boarded him for the first time yeah little toby toby toby get in here we're gonna sit on the couch here he usually comes over but he's so lethargic today but i feel like i feel like we could meet him because oh my gosh he's so sweet but what i will say jordan is that even then this was in 2022 so obviously we do the math long before you were pregnant but even then you you had these maternal instincts of like I'm so sad to leave my little guy and to be away from him and uh so you know in a way it feels full circle
that now uh you've got you know really you're second on the way you're first that you're giving birth to but uh I'm super excited for you he's definitely gonna have to learn to take a back seat here before he's definitely not higher energy right now, but he is for new people and things.
But I think once he's settled down and gets used to the baby, he's going to be super good and really protective and stuff.
So doodles are love bugs.
They're so good. He's going to be a great big brother.
How are you feeling today?
Other than the fact that it is 8 billion degrees and probably a pretty miserable time for all of us, but definitely a miserable time to be pregnant, I'm guessing.
But how at 34 weeks, how are you feeling and I want a little bit of expectation versus reality when it came to pregnancy.
I think we all maybe expect things to be a certain way, go a certain way, especially when it comes to being pregnant and being a runner.
What has your experience been?
Catch us up. Yeah, well, gosh, being pregnant is it's just a wild ride.
I don't know the right words to describe it it's I mean you can attest to this but we tried for a while we tried for about a year um I was still kind of coming off competing trying to make the trials and I think it kind of coincided with like my body being a bit fatigued and like still recovering and I took that whole year and just sort of like didn't run too much we Ryan got me into cycling that summer um he's a a big cyclist and then like I was so discouraged and then finally kind of when you like least expect it right then it happened so I was so excited to be pregnant and then now like I'm
not gonna lie a lot of birds suck about pregnancy it's okay to say that it is hard like I but I I always remind myself I'm like you want to be pregnant this is all you wanted and then it was like so hard um parts of the first trimester I can't complain because mine's been pretty smooth like I actually well I took a lot of downtime running in the lead up to get pregnant and I would say I actually have been almost training more running wise once I got pregnant I started to feel better which like like I said I don't think that was a coincidence like it it happened been that I was in a better place
physically and mentally and um it happened so um but still of course I've like cut back and been been able to run all the way through though I'm getting a little bit of like pelvic floor kind of like you feel like you have to pee all the time sort of vibe which is like it's good mental training because the whole time it's I don't know how it was for but I'm just like okay I feel like I have to pee but I don't have to pee it's like how long can I make it because I'll like stop and I'll be like I barely had to pee so I'm like you can just keep you can keep going but it just is like uncomfortable
so I sort of do like I actually like my like my like runs are harder than my like workout days because like I'll do like a half mile or mile warm -up like today was like because it's so hot out right it's reduced to like a mile warm -up and I did six 200s because I get to walk between so like that's nicer than doing like a straight up four mile run you know so I did that and then my cool down was like walk run back 400 meters and then then I lift I I think like lifting has been really beneficial so I've been able to like keep that up of course not like heavy but um I work with Jess Dorrington you've
probably heard of her she works with a lot of the elites and I've actually worked with her since I was in Oregon so it was nice to reconnect for for this and so I've been doing a lot of pelvic floor stuff and just all that strength stuff so I can still like I'm still doing the speed ladder and stuff so I don't think a lot of 34 pregnant women are doing that and so that's been helpful to still kind of of have my balance and still feel like I can move around.
Cause I mean, it is still a struggle getting off the couch sometimes.
So it's good to, I think, yeah, just being active, being as active as possible, but also just listening to your body.
Um, I was frustrated kind of at the beginning because I thought that maybe I would overtrain in pregnancy cause I'm one to like stick to a a schedule like I like to have my schedule and there's no like set guidelines out there like in terms of like okay this is like exactly like you shouldn't go over the line of this and I've you know I had heart rate limits and things like that but um it was interesting because it's actually been really easy for me like I think my maternal instinct is already there like you just you know where the line is and like people have said like you your body will tell
you you will know. But I'm like, sure, like, I'm definitely just gonna push it.
I'm worried, but I actually haven't.
And it's been super nice.
And I think that's been good for me mentally.
And I feel like I'm going to be stronger coming out of pregnancy and taking my time coming back.
So that's been something that has been surprising to me, I suppose, but also pretty cool.
There, as you said, there's so little research out there, so little data, so little information information about not just running and exercising while pregnant, but especially doing it when you are a professional athlete, right?
What has helped? Are there resources?
Are there people? Are there fellow pros or former pros that you either connected with or followed?
What has helped other than obviously, it sounds like you're doing a very good job of being in tune with your body.
But I'm wondering, are there either people you've turned to talk to what's helped what's out out there yeah I mean it's it's hard because your OB just at the beginning they just say you can keep doing what you did before but it's like okay well I'm not gonna run 130 miles a week that's just not realistic number one like I couldn't do that to get pregnant and number two I'm not gonna like keep doing that so um I think that yeah just just relying like I said I've been listening to some of your old recordings with Molly Huddle.
And I can't remember who else was on there that I was listening to.
Just a ton. I think you had El St. Pierre on there who just had another baby, so that's cool.
And then I actually reached out to some triathletes because a lot of the pro triathletes have been getting pregnant right now.
So Holly Lawrence, she just had a baby about a year ago and she's actually doing really well right now she just returned to racing um and then Skye um I'm gonna say her last name wrong Monik she has a podcast where she talks about um different weeks of her pregnancy and I instagrammed with her um and then Sonia Looney she's a professional mountain biker um and she's been super helpful um she had some blogs and podcasts about it um and I like I told you earlier I got into cycling last year so I've been cycling a bit through the pregnancy as well so I think just like reaching out to them was helpful just
as like endurance athletes right and just in general like what's your amount of like volume that you've been doing and how did your body feel and handle that and just just different like phases.
Like first trimester, I was generally okay, got pretty tired, but I feel like the baby kind of goes through like different growth spurts.
So throughout the second trimester, there was always like a good week and then a week where I'm like, oh gosh, I really have to cut back this week.
Like, is it over? And then the next couple of days you like have a great run And you're like, Oh, no, I'm fine now.
But then I would say from like, week 28 on, it's just kind of been like a downward taper that I mean, I've been pretty much okay with I like, I it's kind of almost a relief.
I'm like, man, I've made it to the home stretch. And you know, I'm excited and ready to go.
And it's just, um, yeah, I can't believe it's already here actually yeah you're getting there when you're talking about uh your training plan who's dictating your your running training right now who's coaching you uh just myself yeah sometimes I run it by Ryan although that was more like before I got pregnant like the other week because I um so I had a goal like every trimester I wanted to get sub six in the mile which I did um but the yeah after my one in the third trimester like it just I could do it but it felt like doing like long reps like my stomach would just be like balloon like like the air
just I I felt like unsafe uncomfortable doing it so I got it but I was like and of course like I keep my heart at like threshold so like I know there's no limits now really they say but I think for like pro runners most people have said like try to keep it like more like 160 or below just because we tend to like push ourselves more I think so that's been good for me to like keep ride the line there so I not only had to like make sure I was staying at threshold but like so it's not like you're going all out but you're trying to just hit six sub six at threshold but anyways I did that and then that has been
my last of like long intervals now it's like literally like 200 punchers but the other day i like didn't know what to do and ryan was like how about in and out miles and i'm like are you kidding me wait what is that understand like like mile hard mile easy sort of thing like and i'm like babe there is no way i'm doing and then i and then he's like you're really sensitive today just like i know and then or he's like you're on edge today and And I was like, well, you don't understand.
I cannot run a mile fast right now.
Because I just get a little frustrated.
But then he's like, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have suggested that.
Good man. So I don't even ask him.
He slowly backs away.
Yeah. Comes back two days later.
But he actually, it was funny because yesterday was our anniversary.
anniversary and um we happened to like get to the park together at the same time and it was like yeah but I don't want to run with you he's like happy anniversary because I don't really like running with with people right now because I just like to focus um but then he's still I still ran faster than him so that was nice he's he's adapting to the heat he says sure sure yeah I mean he's also also married to you like he knew he had to have known what he was getting and since we're talking about Ryan can you give us the love story how'd you two meet and and give us the whole love on the run oh yeah
I did want to talk to you about this well so actually when we were on that flight together that was when he and I were like just starting to talk so we've actually known each each other since so this is like a crazy story.
But when my mom passed away in 2016, I was on a flight, I was supposed to run the Pittsburgh 10 miler, which he manages.
So we met that night because I flew to Pittsburgh met him and his team.
And then they were so kind to me and helped me get back to California ASAP yada yada and um he was dating someone at the time and like wasn't interested but I was kind of like interested at the time so I would always like group text him and then this his other um co -worker Anna who like flew back to she flew back to California with me because they decided that I should have someone with me like Alberto was like they need you guys need to send someone so she literally like flew with me had a two -hour layover and then like flew back all the way to Pennsylvania but anyways um so we were like casually
talking for like six years or eight years something like that um and then in 2022 that when I saw you right before I saw you I had raced the Pittsburgh half um and we like chatted a bit more during that because he's the elite athlete coordinator um so we chatted and more during that and then the way that we started like dating was we sent each other the wordle every day because he's like do you play the wordle so which by the way he lost that wordle today on his i got it in six yeah it was a tough one today but today was comfy right we can say it come out until yeah after but comfy yeah i struggled
like he did like kumi but our both our wordle streaks are like 280 something like we're both pretty close to almost getting a year but so anyways that's how we started like date like you know staying in touch and then we did distance for about six months like we did dates on face time like i was in california he was in Pittsburgh here or Mechanicsburg like near Pittsburgh where he's from and then he came to Maine for beach to beacon um and that was like our first date um and then he two weeks later came out to stay with me in California for two weeks and then I came here to PA for two weeks and then
he just came back and like we we like haven't not seen each other for like a day or two since then since we like started like in -person dating like we literally just been inseparable so it happened pretty quick and then he proposed in um january and we got married that um that june we just had our two -year anniversary so and we moved out a lot has happened we moved out to pennsylvania where he's from um and we were in a townhouse we just moved into a bigger house in November just to have more room for babies so this is kind of like our forever home which is really nice um which we weren't planning
on doing but Ryan likes his Zillow surf so of course that yeah but it's kind of honestly it's nice because our old town home would have been pretty crammed with baby and now we don't have to move during like any part of its life which is almost a relief so we're but we love it I love it here it's actually my dad is from like two hours away and so I have like aunts and cousins like my 99 year old aunt just came to my baby shower so that was really special and so it's been nice to like connect with this side of the family and And Brian's brother and our sister -in -law, they have three kids ages four,
two, and one. So it's going to just be nice for our kid.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so nice because that's a big, that's a, I mean, all of that is a lot.
Well, congratulations on the anniversary.
Happy birthday to Ryan.
Sorry for his mortal loss.
that is yeah I've been there I know but he I want to tell you this because I was listening to your episode with Elise on like the different games oh my gosh we really really got into it I remember Brian recently got a 46 day streak of connections whoa which is really good right like that's out today yeah I didn't I think so busy I might have gotten it at the last minute oh yeah I did because because the last category was so dumb.
It was something with like the last letter missing.
And I was like, stop doing that.
I hate those. Okay.
Oh, actually don't tell me.
Cause I got green and yellow.
That's not going to help you.
That's not even going to make no sense.
Yeah. I moved on to something else.
Cause sometimes I'll do that if I'm green and yellow and then I don't want to like do stupid guesses, but a lot of times I'll just like, forget to go back to it though.
Oh, I do that too. I do that with strands too.
If I can't like like, immediately figure out strands.
I'm like, I'm not doing this.
Life's short. I'm not spending time trying to figure out this dumb game.
Yeah, I know. And Ryan's, like, really good at the crossword too.
I'm just, like, about completion.
So I've gotten better at it, but I'm not the best at it.
I actually haven't been doing it lately because I've been, even connections, I've been kind of iffy because I've been, like, busy with work.
So I'm trying to, like, pre -write training for maternity leave so I've just been focused so I do Wordle's always my number one like I have to do Wordle and then the other games I'm like depends how I'm feeling what's your starter word uh oh um lately well I I listen to different podcasts with like Jimmy Kimmel and some other experts that say like the best words wait Jimmy Kimmel experts yeah he's like he's like an expert for that wordle he has like uh an episode where he talks about so adieu is a good one and then louis is a good one what is that because like louis l -o -u -i -e that's the word you
get like a lot of vows how is louis a word it's a name yeah i don't know what does that even mean like uh i don't know it's just like a shrimp or something it's like louis like maybe i i don't know if it's shrimp or it's just something i love the idea that you just like made that up you sound like ryan like whenever he's like well what does that word mean and i'm just like like the other day i think i guess like the thorpe or something or like the word was that and he's like what is that and i'm like i don't know it's just like a like a thorpe or something like it just is all the confidence jordan i
respect that and honestly i believe you in my mind now uh a louis is a little shrimp baby i don't know we should look it up uh i kind of don't want to know though okay but have you ever got one um louis can refer to several things um a type of salad dressing okay and a tv show uh it's not a shrimp I was wrong not a shrimp but you know what I will believe that it is I like your version yeah have you ever gotten a one though I uh I did once yes and the thing is I still use that same starter word like I should your word trash trash oh okay i can't like i can't shake it i and i can't i know there's
other words that are similar but i just i like that t in the first spot i like the a in the middle like trash is so good even though it's been used ideally shart would be a word because then it's all the same letters but shart is not accepted by the wordle dictionary which i it's not accepted that's That's interesting.
Runners, I feel like would disagree.
But yeah, it's not unfortunately not a word. So yeah, I need a new one so that I can someday get one again.
But also I just can't bring myself to care enough.
Yeah, we've never gotten ones.
But we really want to because if we both if someone gets a one our deal is like we both take the day just like off like Ryan will we'll take off work and we'll just like do something really fun but that's so cute it's like never happened yet so but that should be a thing like the day that the baby's born listen listen ryan's gonna have a lot of jobs that day as your support person he needs to make sure that no matter what time you give birth and then in the subsequent days when time has very little meaning don't lose your wordle streak okay i know yeah that's true you gotta stay on top of of that set
alarms or something you know i know i know it's fine if you lose your wordle streak nothing bad will happen it's fine it's tough but it is i i was listening on the podcast too like i've done wordle before when i like get in from a flight at like actually the flight when i got back so on the way home from seeing you i ended up getting delayed so toby actually had to stay and extra night in boarding which was like ripping the band -aid right away right because I was just like stressed out about it so I didn't get home till like 1 a .m and I did wordle at 1 a .m and then but that's the worst because then
you wake up in the morning you have your coffee and everything in your routine and you're like man I've already done where I already did my stupid little game what is the day yeah why bother yeah what am I here for yeah so can't do that I know oh I've been there I'm not sure so like what time would you recommend I do it though with like labor and the baby and the oh my gosh should I just do it at midnight because otherwise I might forget or should I like if the baby is impending should I like have the baby and then like i could sit down with the whortle or should i do it like in labor to distract
myself or like something these are all good questions i think it's like the old adage whortle when the baby whortles you know like the baby okay you know sleep when the baby sleeps eat or as ellie perrier i believe has been posting instead of sleep when the baby sleeps which is bs um eat when the baby eats which i think is a much better approach yeah i saw that that's really good advice Okay.
So we'll, we'll figure out, I'll check in.
I'll make sure that you're, you're wordling.
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Let's talk about Hogan Performance.
performance you and Ryan have a coaching business now.
And I want to know where that came from, whose idea was it and why were you drawn to coaching?
Yeah. So, um, I was kind of talking about like the transition out of professional running, um, at the end of 2023.
So we moved to PA in, um, 2023 spring and that summer I took like that whole spring off.
My body was still like not doing well in races that whole summer we like tried to make Ryan and I tried to make like a reattempt to make it to trials and I did okay like I got kind of far but it just wasn't still wasn't happening I wasn't enjoying it so we're like okay let's just be done and my contract was up so that was kind of nice like it was very mutual of like I don't want you to renew me like I need maybe one one day right like now I I feel rejuvenated I would love to come back after the baby but um at the time I was like I'm done like I just please and it was great like um Nike are still
so supportive and everything and they're excited about the baby and um I'll always have a great relationship with them but it was time to just take a step back um and so I didn't really know what I was going to do.
Um, people had mentioned coaching.
I never really knew if I would be good at it or not or not.
I, I had coached like a few people on the side.
Like I had done, um, just some different coaching apps, um, and help people to marathons and definitely like enjoyed it.
But I wanted it to be like something where it was like very personalized, very like the way that i wanted it to be so um that that winter i decided to just like have a consult forum on my website and i did an instagram post and i got like a lot of interest actually which was really really nice because i was like scared like oh no one's really going to want to sign up um and then so for the past year for uh i i was coaching um several several clients and And it's been actually more, honestly, more rewarding than my, um, own career.
Like I love helping people.
I love, like, I don't know.
I love all the details.
Like I helped someone to sub three hour marathon debut.
She actually listens to this podcast. Yeah, shout out.
But, um, that was, I just feel like it's a science and the art and I do it very personalized.
So I send training weekly.
Um, we text every day.
It's like, you know, I've got all these like friends that are just, and now everyone's like excited for the baby, like, um, more, more so we're talking about that.
Cause like, it's about training and PRs and stuff, but more about like life, right.
Becoming a better person.
That's what running has always taught me is just like, how can you become more more resilient, more dedicated, you know, committed to a goal.
How can we inspire others?
And so that's really what I've tried to do with my clients.
And, you know, they inspire me as well.
So Ryan, his background is in marketing.
And so this year, because we want the business like, it's great that I got a lot of clients without really doing much, but like, we want it to be like long term and I'd love to help more people so this spring he was like well you're kind of like at max capacity especially with the baby coming so why don't we kind of like make it more an official team and hire on some more coaches so we got some excellent coaches and we have like merchandise I need to get your sizes too but um yeah it's just an Instagram now so it's just been really really fun and um you'll see some of my clients in in hogan performance
jerseys in the fall in chicago and new york and stuff so um yeah it's just it's like i'm super passionate about it um like i said earlier i'm like pre -riding training for a couple weeks for maternity leave but i'm like don't worry i'm not like i love it i'll still be around like it's hard for me to like take a step back even so it's been a blessing and um just yeah I never thought that I would love it so much but I really do I just love all my clients and it's been a lot of fun is there a certain type of athlete that you get most excited to coach whether it's a certain distance someone newer to
running someone chasing a specific goal like what gets you super jazzed yeah so actually that's a good point we take all levels so um yeah we had someone pr in new york marathon this year she the two years ago she was like seven hours something this year she was like 6 45 or something so you know she's she's you know back the pack she won't mind i say that near the back yeah that's not an insult that is like most fun with it yeah she's amazing and um and then, yeah, I mean, I do like, I have a lot of women right now that are kind of like eyeing the sub three barrier.
Um, and that's been super fun.
I think what's the most fun for me is like, I've had a lot of like longterm clients now.
So like everyone over a year, so I can easily like, I know it cause it's also like, it's like science -y, but it's also like, how does this person like mentally respond to these types of workouts and um all my i have like a couple women that are all around the same like prs but if you look at their training they would be like completely different so i kind of i just like that like aspect to it of like tweaking it for the individual person um and and learning the athlete as as who they how they operate mentally what they're dealing with with work and um and life and family because that's what I
mean none of my clients are professional athletes so they're all having to have their other job and how do we work their training in with their job but um yeah I just I get excited about everything everyone honestly um we had a couple in grandmas this last weekend which was really really great um um, I don't know if Sarah listens to this.
She probably does, or I'll send it to her.
But I'm gonna shout out her because she was only so she's trying her PRs for 22.
And she's trying to get it but it was like super hot.
Like it was dumb hot, like 95%.
Yeah, but I was disappointed because she's ready to get her PR but she was kind of she's never negative splitted.
So So she said around mile nine she was, like, starting to slow down and she was, like, Jordan's going to be really mad at me.
Which I'm not, but, like, I used to think that about Alberto, right?
Like, what is he thinking right now?
Like, it just is, like, motivating to have your coach in the back of your mind.
And I do an add -on called Mindset.
So I just kind of give like some key performance indicators.
Like it's very, my goal is like to bring the professional athlete approach to the average athlete.
So these people are used to like professional athlete like style training.
So, you know, she's thinking of her mantras.
She's like turning the negative into positive, that sort of thing, thinking about her form, taking a step back.
and um she ended up negative splitting and she was only like very close to her pr um and she like I said she's never negative splitted but I was like I'm still on a high from it like I am so proud of her it's just like stuff like that where I'm just like it is so cool like you don't give up like that inspired me on my run today right like I want to stop to pee but I'm like think about Sarah like she just didn't give up like you can do it you can make it a mile and a half warm without peeing so it's like they just like give me so much inspiration um and then yeah it's just fun to like craft everyone's
training super different um and we've gotten new coaches now that are the same style and um just just excited about that one of my friends she's um she does a lot of like trail marathons so she's we're taking trail athletes now so just able to expand it a little bit more, which is fun.
It's so fun to see how much you light up when you were talking about this.
I like, I can feel it when you were competing.
I mean, and you know, and I want to talk about this too, but I mean, you've been competing at a high level pretty much your entire life.
How aware were you, especially when you started racing marathons?
How aware were you of the runners behind you?
Right? Like when you run a race like Boston, there's 30 ,000 everyday everyday runners who are behind you.
How much did you, I don't know if the question is how much did you know about it?
Were you aware of it?
Like what was your relation sort of to the rest of the pack during the time that you were competing?
Like, did you know people were doing seven hour marathons?
No, that's what I love about the road racing actually.
Cause I mean, I grew up on the track and I still love track and field but when I um didn't make the track and field team in 2016 that's when I transitioned to the road and I just loved it I my first road race was actually Tufts 10k now it's like Boston women's 10k or something but it was just so nice to like have the masses out there and that's what I really like about the marathon is like we're just all in it for the journey and everyone is out there doing the same thing like we have the elites but it is it's preparation and um coaching coaching a six -hour marathoner versus myself is actually
not that much different you have to put in the work you have to put in the long runs and the days so um I just really respect that and um I think that everyone just just works really hard for it got a couple that like I said I've had some marathon debuts and some new ones this fall that are that are gonna debut so it's fun to to help them on the process because it's definitely your first one is intimidating and I remember my first Boston I like went out with the front pack and I remember looking behind and there was no one like to see behind us and I was is just like I better not drop off this pack
or else I'm gonna be running this all by myself so um it's yeah it's just it's just such a cool atmosphere and being at like a Boston or Chicago or like a huge marathon just the excitement and the city and the atmosphere is just I get like goosebumps talking about it like I just love the sport so much so like to be still involved in coaching is is awesome and like I said I'd I'd love to maybe get back to to competing one day but we'll see we'll see what happens with that now there's like no pressure of course but more just want to do it to see what could happen but and just because I love it I
love the people and and the sport and and everything about it I love that approach that's such a good got a good head head on your shoulders with that approach of like let's just kind of see let's see how it goes and I wanted to hear about how closely you follow the sport but I feel like you've answered that it sounds like you're still very obviously involved with the athletes that you coach but I mean are you getting up early and watching like the broadcast of the New York City Marathon when it rolls around like do you feel like you're still connected to or following the professional professional
athlete side of the sport?
Oh, definitely. Yeah.
Like my calendar, my calendar is cleared tomorrow for faiths attempts.
Like I was actually supposed to have a lactation consultant come tomorrow.
And it was like during that, well, I'm, I was worried it was going to like run over.
It's like the time till one o 'clock and I'm like, could we like reschedule this?
And I'm like cutting it close now.
We're like, she can't do next week.
So we're like putting putting it to like 36 weeks.
And I'm like, God, well, I'm gonna really regret this.
But then I'm like, okay, well, whatever.
It's meant to be like, if I deliver early, I'm prepared.
This is gonna be worth it.
So no pressure faith, in addition to the pressure, no. Well, what the best would be if she gets it.
And then also, if I deliver early, of course, given like, baby is healthy and and everything and then I never do the consult that would be funny but oh my gosh yeah and if I mean I know that you said before we recorded like you've got names ready to go but it's like if it's a girl do you I mean you might have to go with the name faith which also could be your wordle starter word five letters that yeah no that would be crazy we should all play the word word faith tomorrow for Wordle.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
That would be, yeah.
And that's a good one.
A I T and H. It is good.
I think I've started with that before.
That's a good one. Okay.
I probably won't cause I'll still play trash tomorrow.
Um, but maybe you or Ryan could play faith and report.
Yeah. It just makes me want to play trash now.
Well, you're not going to get it in one so don't bother i'll do trash on friday well i was actually lately that i've been doing ghosts just because i've been getting like weird pregnancy dreams so i've just been doing ghosts in the morning and it was the word the other day so i was so mad when you didn't because i didn't play it first because i'm like you're being creepy like stop doing this word and then it was so i was it was really sad of course of course that was you get that though i get like such weird pregnancy oh they're in there okay so the pregnancy dreams are feature films yeah i wake up
every morning and be like what in the hell just happened like there's so they're not realistic because they're insane but like you yeah pregnancy dreams there's nothing like them And they stop as soon as you give birth.
There's a lot of things that just stop once the baby's here.
Yeah. So enjoy those movies while you can.
Those, or at least in my experience, yes, the dreams calmed down quite a bit.
Okay. Yeah. That's good to know.
Yeah. They're wild.
I want to talk a little bit since it is, you know, as we're heading into July, August, these are starting to be those peak months for people who are training for fall marathons.
marathons when you look back on training for your first marathon which was Boston where you finished third you are a professional third place marathoner I mean you're a professional a lot of things and you're very good at a lot of things and I hope that you know that that's like an insane compliment like third at these majors you got third three times in a row Boston Chicago Boston Austin, right?
Yeah. At least at the majors.
Um, what do you remember most about training for in leading up to your first marathon?
Um, so like I said, I, I transitioned, um, to the marathon in 2016.
I didn't do well at the track trials.
So we decided to do some road races and I won the 10 mile championship that fall.
Um, and it was kind of like a long buildup.
I ran Houston half, which was my first half in January and then going into Boston.
Um, it was a really emotional time for me.
My mom passed away that November.
So, um, yeah, I can't believe it's almost going to be nine years already this year.
So it's yeah. Crazy.
But that kind of like spurred me on and gave me a big boost. I think it was crazy.
Cause like, I mean, you know, dealing with like trauma and hard stuff you kind of like sometimes your mind just like blocks things out and then like when I crossed the finish line of Boston I just immediately like started bawling like I just everything kind of like came out um and so obviously it's like been really special for me because I I definitely like really felt her during that race and um still she's the one that inspired me to start running and it's been you know hard in this pregnancy not having her around but I know that she's here in spirit and would be really excited and proud to
so um yeah but for training for it um again like I said it's tough you have to put in the work and the journey um I always like to say that the marathon is like life there's going to be ups and downs and it's it's just about how you handle the challenges and the journey so like if I tell my clients like there's no way and this is like life too like there's no way everything is going to go perfect like it's a long race it's a long time there's a lot of things that can go wrong but like it's how you like overcome those challenges so like if you drop your bottle or you miss the aid station you you
better be the first person to get to the next aid station like something like how are you just like flipping flipping it immediately.
So that's what I always do in marathons is like, when I have like a negative moment or a negative thought, and my mom was really good at this.
She was always like, don't cry, you're wasting energy, you're like, you know, flipping stuff to like, think about something funny.
So I would I always like try to like bring comedy or humor when I'm tired and, and think about the positives.
And it's like, I feel like in life and in marathon, It's like whoever can overcome those challenges the best. It's not about not having challenges because you are going to have them.
It's about like just responding to them, being resilient and learning from them and inspiring other people and just sharing that with others.
So that's not really about marathon training, but I don't know.
Well, but this is how it goes.
And then it all ends up being about life, right?
Like running is never, that's the ultimate Coach Bennett -ism of like, this is about running.
This is not about running.
Like it's never just about running.
I love that though.
And I appreciate you sharing that.
And you know, you finished third, you ran the fastest debut for an American woman in your marathon debut.
And you went on to run third in right third Chicago and then third and then injury, and then came back to Boston and ran third. Um, how do you, when you look back on your marathoning career, what are some of the, you know, you just shared a lot of the key takeaways, but what are your reflections on your time competing in the marathon and that chapter Yeah, I mean, I just loved it.
Like I said, it's just the most challenging event.
So the training for it is really demanding.
And then just the whole process of everything.
So just really embracing that process.
And it's just really been more than any other event that I've done has taught me a lot about my life, you know, like pregnancy is a marathon. marathon and all these things a lot of things are a marathon in life getting pregnant was a marathon my ob kept saying that this is the longest marathon and you don't know where the finish line is so i'm sorry but it's like you just got to keep trying but then it's like it's like do you want to take a break but i'm not that that's what the marathon has taught me i'm not that kind of person i'm like nope we're trying again like we're just keep we keep on trying
like we're never giving we're not quitting um and so that's what it's it's taught me in life and um yeah I just I just feel really prepared to be a mom because of what running and competing has taught me is like routine you know I've read so many books on sleep training and every and I'm just like trying to be ready but at the end of the day it's like instinct and you're it's like when you're taping for a race like you do as much as you can and then at some point you're just like it's time and i just got to go out and trust myself and trust what i know and my support around me ryan and um so it
applies i think long story short the marathon applies to your life as well and now that i'm whatever i am retired for now but maybe coming back like it whatever happens like from competing and being Being at the highest level of things.
I've just been really honored that I can apply that to my life of like trying to be one of our we have like Hogan family values.
And one of our values is excellence because we like are always trying to be the best, like find the best. Like it's not it's not about perfection, but it's about like just being, you know, the excellent at whatever you're doing.
whether it's taking out the trash or like I'm not excellent at that like I just admire like I feel like if everyone in life could we could all do that it would be like very elevated like just just remember to be kind you never know what people are going through just try to be excellent at who you are my mom used to say that all the time so that's that's kind of what what the marathon is.
I think. Oh, I love all of that and how that all, it all comes full circle there.
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I say get the otter.
You also started competing on the professional circuit at such a young age.
You competed at the Olympic trials when you were in high school.
What do you remember about that?
And I'm so curious about if it was like, I don't know, I think about myself in high school and it definitely was not competing at the Olympic trial.
Was it like, I'm just happy to be here?
Or was it like, I'm the high school schooler with something to prove?
What do you remember?
No, I was just I would keep a log at the time.
And I remember that we just would delete my warm ups.
I like forgot to warm up because I was just watching all the pro athletes warm up.
And in my log I wrote I got to write uh shake Sarah Hall's hand at the end and I just was in awe and just just happy to be there um that was the thing and that's why I've just I think been really happy with my relationship and being able to do the sport for so long I mean unfortunately my body had some ups and downs but um my parents and everyone around me never put any pressure my i've had great coaches so um it's just been all about like enjoying it and i i i put the most pressure on myself than anyone i would say so and it was like that in high school and it is now still so i yeah i was just
like a little kid like it was because the races are so late and i used to go to bed so early so i just remember like it was like way past my bedtime and i actually made it to the final but i got really sick because we were up till like midnight you know for the different races and so by the final day i was just like burned out i mean i i just wasn't getting enough rest and it was just a lot but um because then i was supposed to fly to the world junior championships and and they weren't even gonna let me stay for the final because there was like this this rule that you had to fly with the whole
team, um, as a junior athlete.
But then my coach kind of talked to USATF.
It was this whole thing.
And, um, they were like, do you think she's going to make the final?
And he thought I was, and then I did.
So, and then my mom flew out to Poland with me so that I could have a chaperone, but it was kind of a busy two weeks.
Do you have, when you look back at your professional career, we'll say thus far, because you never know what the future holds but when you look back what makes the highlight real whether it's the moments or you know races or otherwise the things you're proudest of or the times that you had the most fun what tops those that that list um yeah I mean in high school I was really proud of which I still think that I am the only footwalker to have not won consecutive consecutive years so I won my freshman year and then I of course I was like well it's gonna be easy I'll go four for four but then you
have like your ups and downs and then that's when you start kind of learning failure because I used to win my local races by two three minutes and then you get to foot walker and it's really tough so my sophomore year people were faster than me and I kind of panicked in the race and I was 10th and then junior year I got a little bit better mentally got third. And then my senior year, I came back and won it again.
And that was just like, really cool.
And I'm really proud of that, of like, just listening to my coach and trusting and being patient.
And I kind of carried those lessons through college.
Same thing, I think winning our, my senior year, we won cross country as a team, which was really fun and special, of course with all the women and then um yeah professional career I mean when I graduating out of college I made the 10k world champs um right when I signed pro and that was really special um that was definitely a highlight and then um of course the marathons and um Um, yeah, just, I mean, I, like I said, I, I just love the atmosphere, love competing, love the people.
Um, I would love to be back out there.
I just, I miss it. So, um, it's, it's, it's definitely like, as you know, like I saw your post about the 10 K this last weekend, but it's like a family, you know, everyone is, everyone is so supportive.
of um when we announced our pregnancy Mary Kate wrote like Boston 20 uh what was it like 40 whenever it's gonna be like 45 and I was like oh yeah unless mom makes it back there first we'll see hell yeah yeah well no pressure for our child but we're it's actually really cool because we we moved towns and they would have gone to St. Teresa's, which is actually cool too, because my mom's name was Teresa.
But now they'll go to St. Patrick's, which is where I went to school.
And they have a track team that you can start in third grade.
I can only start in fourth grade.
Please tell me you already looked this up.
Like, is this common knowledge in the area?
Or were you like going to like the school district dot edu and like checking?
How do you know? I mean, we go to we go to mass there every Sunday and then like in the Bullington, they're like sign up for track third graders.
Yeah, yeah. Like, when do I need to get mine on the waitlist?
Is there a waitlist for six years from now?
Well, I guess it's more than that math hard. I love that.
so when you picture a future in which maybe you're competing again and racing again are you picturing the marathon uh definitely yeah yeah no I would love to get back to the marathon um I think at first I mean I just need to I was just struggling in general with every distance so I think like we're gonna take it really slow and probably just try to run a good half first and get back to my old times but if um yeah if that could happen then that would be really cool and and just see it's just see what my body can do I'm curious because I've actually like like I said it's kind of been an interesting like
situation because I wasn't doing workouts for a year and then I've been doing better workouts in pregnancy I'd say then like towards the end of my career so I already feel like stronger it's just the mom strength maybe maybe.
I don't know. I did a post about this, but I already am saying, you're so fast already.
Then on the last reps or whatever, I'll be like, well, I can't let the child down.
Stuff like that, you're just inspiring them.
I want to inspire them like my mom did for me.
I think it would just be really cool.
Of course, I was never at the top races with Ryan being around so it would be cool to like share that as a family but if it doesn't happen it just you know I'm just I'm just really happy with everything still in life and um it it's just up to God and either way it'll be fun the pro like I said earlier the process will be fun and um I'm actually really nice that I'm not like under contract or anything because I can literally like I just like fitness in general right like I Ryan was saying this other day he's like you know what I figured out my training style is that I'm just always tapering because he
he just like won't do workouts like he's happy to just like run easy every day and like I don't know if it's just like being a retired professional but like I cannot do that like even like I said week 34 pregnancy and see I'm like today's my workout day like I'm 200 like I have to have like an easy day a hard day like I I don't know I just like it in general so like whether or not I go back to racing like I'm gonna be doing workouts and like building up to different goals anyways so it's like okay well I might as well just like see what happens you know so it'll it'll be fun I'm of excited but um
there's like no no timeline or rush which is also really nice gosh i am so impressed with your outlook and your approach i mean to a lot of things but really just to all of this and to the return you are someone who in so many ways throughout your professional career like whether or not you wanted to be on one like you were very much always on a pedestal of always being one to watch and being this like young phenom who went to Oregon and immediately signed with Nike.
It was coached by Alberto Salazar.
Like you were, I just, in my mind, I would think that that would be so much pressure.
And so to hear how you've always approached it and where you're at now, like, I don't know, that's amazing.
I just, I have, I have nothing nothing valuable to add to it, except to say that like, maybe it's surprising to me that like after and, and you've been through a lot, you've not had an easy go and you've not had an easy life in a lot of different ways.
And so just to hear the joy in your, in your voice and in your life and that you're doing what you want to be doing now is just, it's awesome.
I'm really happy for you.
This baby is going to be born into a world of love and excellence.
So thank you. Very exciting.
I am not letting you go just yet.
We end every episode of the alley on the run show with our sprint to the finish round.
And since you are still doing workouts, that means you are probably up for a little sprint of a different kind.
I'm going to rapid fire questions at you.
Are you ready? Uh, yeah, I'm excited.
Okay. What would your last meal on earth be pizza or steak?
you can have both I can have both yeah that's true oh yeah last meal girl load it up yeah favorite movie oh um Christmas Vacation nice favorite tv show uh either Grace Anatomy or Friends are you still watching Grace are you like still in it well so we're re -watching Ryan has never watched it and we've gotten pretty far we're on season 11 um but now with baby coming were like we're probably done pretty soon i don't know it's gonna get busy but you never know maybe sometimes babies sleep a lot not all of them but some babies do you never know i was like i it's bad because i've gotten into reddit
recently which i turn out to i'm not like a big social media person but i love like i love like reddit parenting and reddit like breastfeeding and all this stuff so like i was like i sent ryan this screenshot because i was like looking up like people were talking about like what do you do when like with all the hours between like baby you know when they're napping or like when you're feeding and they're like Grey's Anatomy has 21 seasons that's Orion he's like oh gosh but he's like we don't want screen time and I'm like well at first they can't really see that the baby's not gonna yeah they can't
even see that far it's it's and And you, too, need screen time.
It's healthy for you.
Yeah, so, we'll see.
Hopefully, yeah, I just – I really love that show.
So, maybe we can continue on.
Okay, these are good goals.
What food reminds you of your childhood?
Oh, right now, popsicles in the summer, I suppose.
Yeah. And what is your, I would say, flavor of choice?
But let's be honest, what's your popsicle color of choice?
they all kind of oh purple or red oh yeah only way to go are there other colors no not really who would you want who would you want to play you in a movie oh um gosh uh my favorite actress is probably julia roberts she doesn't really look like me or anything thing they don't need to I just really like her like my mom we we loved the movie I I mean I love it too pretty woman um that was like my mom would just watch that and like ball so um probably her yeah should I admit to you that I've never seen pretty woman you would like it you have to watch it okay I'll watch it I'll watch it that would be
fun I think that would be fun for me yes yes because i quote it all the time but i've never actually seen it let me know if you cry in the final scene but if i cry jordan jordan that makes me want to watch it actually because i'll probably start bawling because i'm all hormonal right now yeah yeah all right i will watch it i will watch it for you yeah let me know okay uh what is your biggest fear and it can be a silly one or a real one.
Oh, biggest fear. And I should say, I used to phrase this as most irrational fear, but that felt very judgy.
And so I want people to know that every fear is a rational fear.
Yeah. I don't know.
I'm trying to decide if I want to do like a fun one or like a a serious one fun one yeah um it's funny because i'm not really like afraid of like spiders or animals or snakes or anything um gosh fear i mean i'm trying to i i don't wait i love that you don't immediately have an answer that's that in itself is the answer no because all mine are like serious is the problem because you know you go to like yeah different different things so we we don't have to talk about this year yeah those are a bummer let's just be afraid of things like hairless cats which is one of mine so yeah okay hairless cats
but that is creepy nope nope yeah I don't like the car wash maybe that that could be one because one time so I used to have a Tesla this is gonna be like another story but i forgot to put it in like car wash mode and during i took my seat belt off and then during the cycle of it it like started to move and they had to like shut down the whole car wash it was mostly it was embarrassing is what it was so i drove away with like all this soap on the car and i'm like i am definitely not like driving back around that car car wash so that I'm googling like is leftover soap bad for the paint on the car
yada yada so like I still don't go I make Ryan go in the car wash now so like yeah maybe that I'm kind of that is actually a very good that's a very adorable slightly irrational fear but I get it there's trauma involved I I am not judging it what about out what is your favorite pasta shape oh that's a good one actually that's so excited that was so cute yeah I don't know we're very into pasta I mean pregnancy right now right like oh yeah every night every Friday's pizza night every Saturday has pretty much been like burgers mac and cheese we do this Ryan and I were talking about this the other
night but like my my go -to meal has has probably been this like meat sauce that we do.
And I like to do I like the like the bow tie pasta.
That's my absolute favorite.
Sometimes it's hard to find.
So we have to go with penne, which is like, Okay, but yeah, we do the so almost weekly, we do like the pasta meat sauce with the bow tie.
And it's just like, so good.
But I just I love like all types of pasta.
So I yeah. Yeah. Good answer.
What was your very first job?
A professional runner.
I wondered if that was the answer.
Yep. When you were very little, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Oh, I wanted to be an astronaut because my dad works in the space industry.
So actually, when I was in second grade for Halloween, I dressed up as Mrs. John Glenn.
And I was just like this old lady with a cane and I had a sign that said Mrs. John Glenn and all the kids are like who is that like no one knows but yeah he he manages um like rocket fueling and satellites so um his guys like manage the hydrazine which goes into like rocket fuel so it's very like they wear like the hazmat suits and it's like all the safety stuff but um yeah it's been fun growing up around that in space so I also like that like that's such a kid costume like in theory like you could have just been John Glenn right right like I feel like today like kids would just be like yeah I'm
gonna be John Glenn you were like well I'll be his wife she didn't go to space but she supported him had dinner ready when he got home yeah it's like one of those things where I could picture my mom being like I feel bad for her like no one is gonna know what this is like Like I just picked this like old dress out of my mom's closet and yada yada.
But they're like, okay, she's being creative, right?
Like let's just do this.
Yeah, I think that's cute.
If you could take a class in anything, what would it be?
Oh, right now? Well, we did one childbirth class, which Ryan was very bored at.
But also like no one wanted to be the demo for like the different positions.
so I ended up like demoing like five different ones because I'm like okay I'll do it and uh we're supposed to do another one but I think we might so this is like related like I right now I feel it's all like related to running in a way like the taper right like am I ready we're supposed to do another one but I think we might skip it because we feel ready so I'm like okay it's kind of like your final workout like are we gonna just check this off the box and it's kind of in a way it's like making you mentally stronger right you're like I'm ready for this I don't need any more um so those yeah those
classes um I don't know I mean I I loved school so I really liked I was a valedictorian um hell yeah of my high school and um in college I got a little busy dropped well I actually got discouraged because I was really busy with like running and there there were people that had way more time than me that could like actually beat me in academic.
Yeah. So like, I don't know, I still got great grades, but I didn't like necessarily try as hard because I was just busy with running.
But yeah, I mean, I, yeah, I love like learning new things, all different stuff.
Like I've been pregnancy, just listening to different podcasts on different different topics.
Um, and like I said, reading a lot of different books.
So just, yeah, anything like child right now would probably be like a class that I want to listen to, but not tomorrow at 1pm Eastern.
Yeah. We are all busy.
I know. Yeah. Hopefully my consultant isn't like into running or whatever.
No, hopefully she is and she'll understand.
And then when you do me, you can talk about how it all went down that's true yeah but I actually um they don't know me at all but I really got a lot of information so in the winter I was running a lot on the treadmill because it was so cold and icy here and I didn't want to like fall in pregnancy so I listened to like hours of podcasts um and there's this one podcast called the milk minute and I probably listened to like 70 episodes and it's about lactation and just like breastfeeding and all all these things but it's also like a story like they you know they talk about their lives and um and all
that so like i feel like i know a lot but again that was in the winter so i'm like but there's like so much to learn it was like when i got a dog i'm just like this is a whole new universe that like i don't know about and now you know it's it's it gets easier but it's just yeah there's there's just so much to learn about different areas of life until you're like actually in it you don't realize you're gonna learn as you go and this baby is gonna teach you and you're gonna be great it's gonna be great if you could go for a run with anyone who would it be oh um I'm a big Elliot Kipchoge fan um yeah
I my I've never met him in person but I would would freak out probably um i use we've just missed each other when he's been at nike for different things but i would love to kind of run with him and spend a day with him i like that plan if you know again if you return to competing and there's another nike contract work that into the deal that's true yeah make that happen in one word how does running make make you feel joyful we I we I feel like we've been to the question mark yeah I don't know it's hard to pick joyful or excellent was one I'm trying to think of a word that we've discussed a lot
on this hour because that's how I'm I like like puzzles like summing it up but um today I mean it depends on the day right well and and like currently like right now I'd say like hot hot sweaty slash like has to pee yeah but accomplished like lately I don't know like every it's nice because every day um what our coach um we have a coach Margo Malone um she's a great runner in Pittsburgh won the Pittsburgh marathon and she um had a baby a year ago and so she's been giving me a lot of advice and she's just like every day that you get to run just be be grateful and that's like that's the point where it
is right now it's like I don't like I don't know if I'll be running by next week right so I'm just like every even though it's like 90 degrees out right now I'm just like I'm happy to be out here yeah and then yeah it's like you feel good and accomplished so I like that answer all right Jordan last one give everyone listening a reason to go for a run um I think like we were just saying I mean you'll never I I've I've thought about this before I don't think there's ever a run where I've really gone out and regretted that I ran I don't I can't think of a time I mean there's some runs where you get
back and you're just like thank god that was over yeah that sucked yeah that sucks but like later on you're still still proud that you did it so I think that yeah just just know that no I really like saying no regrets so just start and that that was something that some of the advice of the other um triathletes and professional athletes have given me is like just start out because a lot of times in the first trimester you don't really feel like doing anything but I would give myself five ten minutes to at at least try and if I still felt like crap I would stop but a lot of most of the time I didn't
like I think there were only like two three days where I like actually stopped but the other days you get out there and you start to feel better and then it helps the day like it didn't make the day any different I still felt tired after whether I ran or I didn't but it made me feel better about the the day and it brought a little joy to the day.
So I would just say like, just try, just give it a chance.
Yeah. I love that. Jordan, I am so happy we did this.
You have been on my list of like podcast wishlist guests literally since the day I launched this show.
So it took 800 episodes to get there, but I am so happy that we made this happen.
And especially at a time when you've got got a lot going on so thank you so much for making time to come on the show I am so excited for you and Ryan and all that is to come and hope you feel this absolute army of support as you go into this next exciting chapter of life so thank you so much for doing this oh thank you Ali yeah we're just honored and I know Ryan he's in the office today but he was excited I mean you're the number number one running podcast right now so we're just he's like can you get on her show and it was funny because the marketer asked me we were planning on maybe asking you
because we wanted to talk about the business but you asked me like right before I was going to ask you so I'm like guess what babe and then it kind of dropped off and I felt bad and you know we're just praying for you and we're like okay you know life just didn't pan out and then yesterday I'm like guess guess what show I'm going on tomorrow and he was like oh my gosh happy birthday babe yeah yeah you made his day actually after you wouldn't run with him I'm glad we were able to uh to turn things around well you two are awesome yeah I hope we can all meet up sometime we absolutely will meet baby I will babysit
anytime oh that would be amazing yeah I got you yay well thank you so much congratulations and here's to the next chapter.
Thank you, Ali. Thank you so much for being here for this episode of the Ali on the Run show with my guest Jordan Hogan.
Jordan, wishing you and your growing family all the best. I really loved getting to do this.
I have wanted to have Jordan on the show since I launched this show in 2017.
So I'm so glad that 800 and something episodes in we were able to make it happen.
Big thanks, of course, to Lagoon and to Boulderthon for supporting this episode.
As always, you can find the links, the codes, the show notes, the show notes.
You can find all of those things in the show notes.
What else can I tell you?
I think just that you've got this.
You're doing great.
And thank you for joining me on the run.
