In the fifth installment of the Toy Story franchise, playtime is so over and screen time is in.
Jessie Buzz and the rest of the crew face yet another existential crisis, but this time the threat is not the arrival of a shiny space ranger or a kid going off to college.
Nope, it's dun-dun-dun!
And with that comes the introduction of new and colorful characters, voiced by the likes of Greta Lee and Conan O'Brien.
Can analog and digital coexist?
We'll see.
I'm Stephen Thompson.
And I'm Ayesha Harris.
Joining us today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is Regina Barber.
She's a host and reporter for NPR's science podcast, Shortwave.
Hey, Regina.
Oh my gosh, I'm the only non-pop culture happy hour person here.
I am so honored, and I'm so glad that I am your animation person, basically.
Yeah.
Oh, you're more than just our animation person, Regina.
Oh, yes.
You've got a friend in us.
Yes, you've got a friend in us.
Well, in Joy Story 5, we are revisiting all of our friends.
And at the start of the movie.
Much of the gang are still together, including cowgirl Jessie and space ranger Buzz Lightyear, voiced by Joan Cusack and Tim Allen.
Now they're happily fulfilling their playtime duties with their eight-year-old kid Bonnie, who's voiced by Scarlett Spears.
That is, until Bonnie is given a tablet called LilyPad and remains glued, zombified, to its screen.
Lilypad is voiced by Greta Lee.
Jessie instantly becomes a very vocal opponent to everything tech and won't accept this sudden abandonment without a fight.
But a series of events separates her from Bonnie and the rest of the forgotten toys.
It's going to take a lot to get Jessie back where she belongs with, Of course, some help from Buzz and Woody, voiced by Tom Hanks.
But she's also going to need to begrudgingly work with some new smart toys she meets along the way, including a quirky potty training gadget.
Didn't even know that those existed, but that's cool.
And a bubbly digital camera.
Toy Story 5 is in theaters now.
And Stephen, I'm going to start with you, bud.
Mm-hmm.
We did, and our listeners helped us rank the Pixar movies last year.
And I'm not going to ask you to put this Toy Story 5.
I'll give you a little more time to think about where you might rank this overall in the Pixar oeuvre.
But I am curious, did you at least have a good time at Toy Story 5?
Does it still feel...
If not fresh, at least still delightful to engage with.
I think so.
I enjoyed myself enormously.
I fully laughed, fully cried.
Had a great time.
I think it's really interesting when we talk about the fifth installment in a franchise.
You start to get into this mindset of where does it rank?
Mm-hmm. not only like among other Pixar movies, but among other Toy Story movies.
And I think if you were to rank particularly four and five, the ones that kind of come after that initial trilogy, it's really easy to sort of view them as less than.
Instead of just viewing them as pleasurable viewing experiences.
Because is it the best Toy Story movie?
Of course it's not.
It's the fifth one.
But it still is working with a very very, very sturdy metaphor and still working off of just sort of like the many challenges and existential crises of childhood.
And one thing that really occurred to me watching this film, kind of even in comparison to the other Toy Story movies.
All of these movies are built around metaphor.
But it had never really been quite so clear to me how much the Toy Story movies are metaphors not for childhood but for parenthood.
And how often these films are fixated on obsolescence, going all the way back to Toy Story 2.
Obsolescence is a really, really key ache of That runs through these films.
It's interesting.
You know, part of it is like as you get older you're going to kind of have different relationships with these films and kind of view them from different perspectives.
This film in particular, I found it a little cluttered.
We've now added so many characters.
That trying to juggle them all is a fool's errand.
And so many of the characters introduced in Toy Story 4 are almost completely sidelined here.
Yeah.
In part to make room.
And so I have a bunch of quibbles with some of the B plots and some of the clutter in this film.
But I found its central story very moving and I was entertained throughout.
Yeah.
Not to mention like a hundred more Buzz Lightyear.
So many more Buzz Lightyear.
I was like clapping in the theater.
I was actually sitting next to Steven and I was like, yes.
Just clapping like a train seal.
I love the point you make Steven, about parenthood and the metaphors that are coursing through this series.
I would even say that I would argue that the first Toy Story is also about obsolescence, because it's Woody.
It's Woody feeling as though here comes Buzz Lightyear.
He's an old-fashioned cowboy with a pull cord.
It's almost as if these stories make an arc.
Yes.
Well, Regina, please.
I know you loved the mini buzzes.
What do you think of the whole movie?
Yeah, I'm going to go in the absolute opposite direction as Steven, and just be like super judgy and I am going to actually rank them and I'm going to be less.
Meaningful because those kids, those mean girls were dumb and I did not like them.
I had like PTSD from when like my daughter had like bullies, you know?
The quote unquote friends.
They're really frenemies of Bonnie who we see in the movie.
Yeah, yeah.
Right, right.
And I actually thought that this movie, Toy Story 5, was equivalent to Toy Story 3, because I had watched them all again recently and I was like wow, this is, I think, just as good.
My partner was like, he even thought it was better than 3 because, like I said, I'm judgy and I we rank okay.
Yeah, Let's not get too wild here.
I thought it was really tight.
Unlike Steven, I didn't think it was too cluttered.
I didn't know it was Conan O'Brien until the very end.
And I was like, this is amazing.
As the potty training.
Smarty pants is his name.
The potty training gadget thingy.
It's the role he was born to play, you know, and there's a scene in the movie where his character is like they're playing make believe and his character has like fake hair.
And I'm like, that kind of looks like Conan O'Brien.
And then at the end, I was like, oh, yeah.
But I like the idea of, you know, these kids finding a friend and what a real friend is.
But we walked away also thinking, did that movie just shame just a ton of kids that are screen kids?
And I was like, eh.
So what?
It shamed me.
I stopped looking at my phone that day a lot more, so...
I mean, these whole movies are centered on the anthropomorphization of objects.
And if you are a neurotic, anxious person, I was a very neurotic and anxious child.
I'm a neurotic and anxious adult.
To feel guilt about the way you handle your toys is a byproduct of this franchise.
Yeah.
I pulled out my childhood teddy bear that night, like literally.
But Aisha, how did you feel?
Well, look, I am on record, I think, as like being very skeptical of sequels.
I do think that.
Three was a perfect number.
It ended perfectly.
And I'm not sure we needed four.
Same.
I can confidently say I would rank four as the least of the Toy Stories in my opinion.
Same.
I like four a lot, but go ahead.
I really enjoyed myself with this.
Like, one of my notes at the end of it was just like, cute.
It's very cute.
Yeah.
And I don't mean that in a shady way.
I mean that in, like, I was delighted.
I had a good time.
Yeah.
Given that, like I don't think any of the Toy Story movies, even four, which I'm not very high on like It's Toy Story and so far I think they've proven that even if they keep returning to this well, they are going to find at least some creative ways into it.
And, as you kind of alluded to Regina, what I liked about this is that yes, it's about tech taking over kids and playtime and interrupting playtime in a way that is maybe a little concerning.
What I also appreciated about it is the way that it also is not too like part of the other underlying thing that's happening here is not just that tech has taken over and Bonnie is obsessed with it, but it's also the idea that she's having trouble making friends because she is still imaginative and wants to play with toys, and that's the bullying right that comes out.
Yeah.
She's, like, invited to a sleepover, and the girls all have their lily pads.
Yeah.
She has her lily pad too, voiced by Greta Lee.
But then she also brings Jesse and Bullseye.
The horse, Jesse's horse.
And the way that one of the girls says to her, oh...
You still play with toys?
Yeah.
It reminded me of being five or six years old.
I was in kindergarten and then I moved like midway through the year.
I moved up to first grade.
In between all of that, like all the transition, whatever, I was still into Barney.
Yes, this was the early 90s.
Barney was the thing.
I was still into Barney and I got teased for that because I was still into Barney.
All the first graders were not.
And I was like you know, I'm still in kindergarten, at least emotionally, if not, you know, academically.
And the way I used to play with toys, it hit me.
And that is the thing about these movies, right?
That is the thing about Toy Story is that they're going to get you.
I'm not a parent.
But they are going to get you regardless of where you sit on.
Somewhere.
They'll hit your kid self.
They'll hit your adult self.
Yeah.
They'll hit your auntie self.
Yeah.
They'll find a way in.
Yeah.
I really just adored those moments and appreciated how, yes, is it a cash grab?
Yes, is it playing very hard on nostalgia?
But also...
The creators of this have found a purpose in a way, even if it is rehashing a lot of the same themes that we've seen over and over again.
I want to echo what you said, Aisha.
I was made fun of in middle school for watching Batman the Animated Series.
So this was in the 90s as well.
But they were like, you still watch cartoons?
And I was like, 12.
One, this is a very good cartoon.
Like, okay.
But yeah, no, I mean, it's the same thing of this bullying for like kids.
And it's so funny because they're like, these kids are a little different.
What they actually mean is that these kids are actually creative. and not boring.
And I was just like.
I love how this makes kids who don't have imaginations feel like maybe they should.
Yes, yes.
Especially the playtime scenes.
Where we're inside Bonnie's head.
The animators deliberately... Oh, they're so good.
The way it's animated is so beautiful.
They do such a gorgeous job.
I love it.
This sort of pastel chalk.
And so those moments are just really vividly rendered.
Yeah.
And there's such energy to the animation in those scenes that does a great job, making kind of imaginative playtime seem way more fun than it actually is.
Yeah.
Do you know, it was kind of reminiscent of Princess and the Frog when she has that scene where she's thinking about her restaurant and it's kind of like art deco and it's like brighter.
Almost there.
Yes, the song.
Yes.
It was kind of like that.
And I really liked that.
Yeah, yeah.
I do want to ask, though, I both love this, but then I also kept wondering, was this movie too late?
I was also thinking that.
Is it too late to save the children?
I'm really glad that you asked this question because I did.
Even watching the commercials, I had this feeling of like, are we railing against the LeapPad learning system?
That was like my kid.
She's 17.
She had a little keyboard.
They had different devices and our kids had the LeapPad learning system.
It's like, I'm DJ Leap.
And I was like, oh, God.
I feel like these movies could have made it clearer how annoying some of this tech is for the parents, who I think are well represented as like, well-meaning and kind of trying to do right by their kid and help their kid hold on to childhood.
I definitely had these feelings of like, this film should be against AI, not tablets.
Yeah.
Was kind of the feeling I had is that it's a little bit behind.
It wasn't totally against tablets.
No.
I do want to just like push back a little that I was surprised on how it was nuanced.
It was like hey, like this is a good device to help connect with people, with people you do want to connect to.
Right.
It straddles the line of like, where is tech useful and where does it suck you in?
And all those scenes where the kids like are looking at the screens in the blue light.
I think that's still very, very apt right now.
Yeah, it's apt.
It just feels also a little like not that it's too late, because there's always going to be new children.
Yeah.
Even when I was a kid, I remember I did have a toy, at least one toy, that was a teaching toy.
It was a robot.
It was the 60s version idea of what a robot might look like.
I loved those.
And then by the time I was 11, I had a Tamagotchi.
So it does feel as though the obsolescence...
Again, I don't know how many more existential crises these toys can have.
I think limitless.
It's about childhood and parenthood, and those are completely universal things.
As you said, there are always new children being born and there are always new forces encroaching on and trying to shrink our childhood.
And that is absolutely universal.
That was true even in the before times when I grew up.
In the land before time, 25.
We played with triceratops.
Not plastic dinosaurs, but actual dinosaurs.
Real ones.
You rode them.
And the other kids were always like, ride the dinosaur.
And it's like, no, I'm still too small.
I definitely felt watching this more than I did with Four.
I felt watching this like, oh, there's room for more sequels.
I thought that too.
To me, I'm just like, bring them on.
Give me more of them.
Do I have quibbles along the way?
Did I need a B-plot about Buzz wanting to marry Jessie?
No.
Yes.
No.
Whatever.
I thought it was cute.
I like the buzzes.
I mean, it was cute.
I mean it was funny a little bit, but I don't know if I needed the full-on Bambi sequence with the multiple Buzz Lightyears in the woods where you hear Love is a Song like the instrumental of Love is a Song from Bambi, but then it turns into the Ominous Man theme when a family is.
It was theatrical.
Well, it was theatrical, but it also felt like it was leaning a little too hard into, Let's Reference Other Disney movies oh, I hadn't even thought of that, and it's not that they haven't referenced them in the past, but they were usually a little more subtle.
Like it might be, like you might see a flash of like a toy or a keychain or something a keychain or something that's referencing a Disney movie or another Pixar movie.
It did feel as though this is like where we're coming up on, like okay, we're a franchise now, so like we have to be a little bit more self-referential.
I will say the one thing that kind of like became clear to me.
Just to like go back really briefly to this idea of like the children and parents.
There's also a moment where Jesse is just really kind of despondent and like almost about to give up because that always that's what's going to happen before they save the day again.
But she says something along the lines of like, I can't keep doing this.
Like, I can't love another kid just to find out I never really matter.
And then I was like this is not just a metaphor for childhood and parenthood, is also a metaphor for like, anyone who's had who like, is having a really sucky time at trying to find a romantic partner or trying to find like friends and like, Oh God, do I have to start over?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The whole like starting over part.
And, Again, I don't know how many more times I need to see them keep learning how to start over.
At the same time, if we're going to keep doing it, I think the same creative impulses they are finding interesting ways into it.
And I do think that, like the choice to focus so much on Jessie and kind of let Buzz and Woody kind of take a backseat was kind of exciting.
Joan Cusack is so, she's just really good in this role.
There's also a very funny visual gag about Woody.
Yes, yes.
I think is so funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Before we leave this conversation though I don't know if you were going to ask, but I do think we need to discuss the song.
Oh, the Taylor Swift song.
I heard it during the credits and then I instantly forgot about it.
I'm going to plus one that, Aisha.
But let's be real.
The Toy Story franchise...
You've Got a Friend in Me, obviously a classic.
When She Loved Me is one of the best movie songs ever.
When She Loved Me is a banger.
And we get a little bit of that in this movie, too.
We hear that.
This movie is just a movie-length extension of that song.
Yes, it is.
Because Emily, Jesse's owner, is very much looming over this entire movie.
But Steven, tell us, what do we think of the Taylor Swift song?
What is it called again?
I knew it, I knew you.
It's fine.
I was a little surprised going in because there had been a lot of discussion about how the song might be integrated into the film.
In the past, a lot of the Toy Story songs are integrated into the film.
You've Got a Friend in Me is part of kind of a montage.
When you think about When She Loved Me.
That is central to Toy Story 2.
That is the central poignant, most poignant moment in Toy Story 2.
I can't let you throw yourself away from Toy Story 4, Oscar nominated Randy Newman song about Forky constantly throwing himself away.
That's integrated into the film.
It's cute, it's cute.
I was lightly shocked by when this song just rolled harmlessly over the closing credits and wasn't integrated into the film at all.
Like a tumbleweed.
And to me, that made the song seem slighter.
And I had listened to the song a few times in the run-up to seeing the film.
Just because I'm in the world.
And I'm like, this is nice.
But I wanted to see it kind of gather a little bit of narrative heft, and this movie does not let it do that.
It also seems strange, given it's Taylor Swift, and she is like a walking autobiographer when she is writing songs.
She's nothing if not full of lore.
Yeah.
So it does seem a little strange that this would be one of those songs that just plays at the end.
And it does kind of make it feel more just like okay, this is her shot at getting an Oscar nomination and eventually getting an EGOT.
That's why someone like Taylor Swift does these movies.
True.
But we really like Toy Story 5 as a whole.
You should definitely go check it out.
And ideally in the theaters because it looks gorgeous and you will have a good time.
And up next, what's making us happy this week?
And now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week, What's Making Us Happy.
Regina, we're going to kick it off with you.
Yeah, and I am going to break the rules and always talk about two.
I am so sorry.
I watched my first K-drama ever.
It's called Bon Appetit, Your Majesty, and it's on Netflix.
And it's about a chef that goes back in time to the 1500s in Korea and it is ridiculous and like funny and also super bloody.
Super bloody.
Okay.
Yes.
Keep going.
And it's like, you know, great food.
And my daughter.
My 17-year-old daughter is making me watch an anime called Haikyuu and it's about volleyball.
That's all it's about.
These kids are failing school because all they care about is volleyball.
And it is incredibly compelling, and I had no idea you could do this.
Wow.
It's also on Netflix.
Okay.
So that is Bon Appetit, Your Majesty.
Yes.
The K-drama.
And then what is the other one?
Haikyuu!
The Anime on Netflix.
It's about volleyball.
That's it.
Volleyball anime.
All right.
And they're both on Netflix.
All right.
Thank you, Regina, for that.
Steven, what is making you happy this week?
What is making me happy this week is the new mixtape from the wonderful Philly rapper and singer, Tierra Whack.
Just announced just like a couple weeks ago, out for Juneteenth.
If you don't know Tierra Whack... just endless, endless wellspring of weird ideas.
I fell in love with Tierra Whack when she put out this kind of quote-unquote album called Whack World, which was a 15-minute album, 15 one-minute songs, and you just got a sense of just ideas just springing out of every second of her music.
She's kind of gone on to perform what I think is one of the all-time great Tiny Desk concerts, which includes a cameo appearance by the Philly Phanatic.
What?
Yes.
Her music is best accompanied by her videos, which are just wildly inventive and fun to look at, just full of bright colors and wild imagery.
This new mixtape will also be accompanied by videos.
I have not seen them yet.
I've only heard the songs.
And I will say that I'm sure the videos will only add to just the wild technicolor geyser of ideas that is her new EP.
Let's actually hear a little bit of the song Wiggity Whack.
Say my name with enthusiasm.
I got kids though I refuse to have them.
I stopped flexing to reduce the spasms.
Bigger than you imagine.
Going tit for tat.
I bet I booby trap them.
Life's a game that must be played.
The elevator was crowded so my success delayed.
You just hear that like warped arrangement kind of wobbling underneath her.
Very 90s.
She continues to just be a wonderful, wonderful font of creativity.
And I'm just delighted that she's got this new record out for Juneteenth.
That's Tierra Whack.
Her new mixtape is called Wax Museum.
Love it.
Thank you so much, Stephen.
I'm going to keep it in the musical realm.
Underscores is an artist who's new to me because, musically speaking, I tend to be late to everything except Charlie XCX.
I was on that bandwagon way before everyone else.
But Underscores has a new album, a newish album came out a few months ago called You.
And I am just obsessed with this.
This is like drill, hyper pop, EDM songs that zig and zag and start in one place sonically and then evolve into like a different movement by the end of it.
It's the type of music that I want to actually listen, mostly to in my headphones, because you want to hear the many harmonies and the stacked vocals in this empty space that punctuates some of these songs.
Some of my favorites on this album are music.
Love Field, which sounds kind of like a spiritual successor to.
I think to like Janet's Velvet Rope album.
It could have been on like the Velvet Rope in the 90s.
Do It, which is really kind of Timbaland and Justin during like the future sex love sounds era.
But I think my favorite at this moment is probably The Peace.
That's P-E-A-C-E.
And it's just kind of like this song about an unhealthy attachment to another person as told through, like sharing a smoke with them.
And let's actually hear just a little bit of that song.
Yeah, I just want to keep the beast with you.
And I don't speak unless I'm spoken for.
Yeah, I love the emptiness and the chopped harmonies and the spareness and all of that.
You just listen to that sample and my pupils are darting all over the place.
That's good.
What was the name again?
The name is Underscores.
That's the artist.
And she's actually from the Bay Area.
But that song was the piece and the album is You.
It's just the letter U. Very Prince-like.
So yes, that is what is making me happy this week.
And...
That brings us to the end of our show.
Regina Barber, Stephen Thompson, thanks so much for being here.
I love that we all enjoyed Toy Story 5 because... We did!
Yeah, we need this.
We needed this.
It was great.
Thank you.
This episode was produced by Hafsah Fatima, Liz Metzger and Mike Katziff and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy.
Hello, Come In provides our theme music.
And thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.
I'm Aisha Harris, and we'll see you all next week.
