Discussion keeps the world's turning.
This is Roundtable. You're listening to Roundtable with myself, Hey Young.
I'm joined by Lee Yee and Brandon Yates in the studio.
Coming up, in today's economy, predictive scheduling laws in the US are making waves by offering workers more stability and fewer surprises.
The idea is simple. No more last minute shifts, no more scrambling to find child care.
Does that also translate to no more sacrificing your personal life for work?
Question Mark, we discuss the upsides, downsides, and complexities of predictive scheduling.
And, our special segment, Motivational Monday coming your way, will give you that adrenaline shot for the start of the week.
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And now around table as we continue today's discussion, ever find yourself caught off guard by a sudden work obligation during a party or constantly being the go to person for last minute business emergencies, what if you could adopt a stable work schedule that clearly separates your work from your personal life?
There's, and that's where predictive scheduling comes in, offering a promising solution for achieving balance.
Increasing number of cities across the US, such as New York City, St.
Jose, and Chicago, as well as the states of Oregon and Vermont, have implemented new predictive scheduling laws to provide workers with more control over their schedules.
These laws are especially beneficial for hourly workers in industries such as retail, food, service, and hospitality.
Well, this wave of predictive scheduling legislation has been making waves over in the US, and what does the legislation entail?
Well, in short, predictive scheduling is a regulation that ensures stability and predictability in employees' work hours through advanced notice of schedules and compensation for last minute changes.
As you said, it has been implemented in many parts of the US.
And according to the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries, there are some key aspects about this predictive scheduling.
Most employees are required to inform employees of their work schedules, typically ranging from 7 to 14 days in advance.
And also employers may be required to provide compensation, known as a predictability pay if they change an employee schedule after the advanced notice period, except for changes caused by force, but draw.
And also employees must receive a minimum rest period between shifts to ensure adequate time for rest and recovery.
The regulations also require equal treatment for all employees, regardless of their full time or part-time status, in terms of scheduling rights and benefits.
Also, employees have the right to request schedule changes or modifications to accommodate personal commitments or preferences.
But of course, remember, their employer may not retaliate against them for making this request, but they are under no obligation to grant their request.
Well, we also saw that, according to a 2021 survey conducted by Harvard Kennedy School, and they found that for the service sector in the US, over 60% of workers in the retail and food service sectors adopted less than two weeks notice of their forthcoming work schedule.
So it's pretty common that folks would be waiting for their work schedule maybe the next day or just pretty soon to the day that they actually need to do it.
And I can see how that can become a source of stress.
Well, but for any Chinese person, it feels like, huh?
Is this a problem? Isn't it supposed to be that managers need to come up with this work schedule thing weeks ahead, if not a month ahead, Brandon, you're from South Africa and you worked in different economies.
And what are you? And what are the industries?
Yeah, for example, I used to work in the service industry.
I did bartending for a couple of years.
And even there, I mean, there isn't any really like legislation or anything like that that determines when you need to be notified about when you're going to work.
But there is kind of an unspoken rule that you should be let known like if you're working during the week, they would let you know on maybe a Friday or Saturday what the schedule would be for the following week.
So I think it really depends on the industry, but it seems like this kind of last minute scheduling definitely applies to the industries that we've mentioned.
So for example, you know, the service industry, retail, hospitality, et cetera.
And I think that's pretty universal, but it is good to hear that in the US and hopefully around the world, that more notices going to be given to employees that require more time to be prepared for upcoming shifts and that they will also be compensated if that scheduling is altered.
And I think that's very important.
Then why do you think that for these businesses in the US, then it's many swabs?
Why did they use to sort of keep their workers on edge or in suspense?
Why? I mean, it could be just poor management and, you know, maybe they're not too concerned about the needs of their workers.
Maybe they also have a large rotation of workers.
You also often find that in these sort of industries that people come in and go out very regularly.
And you know, things change and seasons change.
So you might be needed for certain dates and times in summer and not in winter.
So I think there's a variety of factors, but I think a lot of this can be solved by, you know, legislation.
And I think a lot of it has to do with good quality management and communication between management and employees.
I think that's incredibly important.
Also, I think it really depends on industries.
I mean, I have a friend who is working in a retailing industry in Australia.
She told me that she has to really, you know, get stunned by even though she's on her vacation or holiday or even during weekend because she really needed to talk to her customers and their customers or their clients can be quite demanding, you know.
They might just want to consult certain information for a special, say, handbag or some luxury item up, by the way, she works in the luxury industry.
So which is also quite disturbing for her because on the one hand, she really wants to, you know, provide good service for her customers and which is also benefiting her salary and wages.
But then she also feel like her time is not really being respected and valued.
And which is also somehow like, and spoken rule as well, which is somehow allowed by her corporate as well, which is also, I think, depending on the company culture, I think, and the philosophy of the management management.
I think you also get some service industry jobs in the luxury sector that are commissioned based.
And I think that can also often lead to crazy schedules.
I mean, there was a movie that I watched recently where, you know, a guy was a dealer at a Lamborghini dealership.
And you know, if someone calls you at one o'clock in the morning saying, hey, look, come down to the dealership.
Someone wants to buy a, you know, a million dollar Lamborghini, whatever.
And you're going to get 20% commission.
Then you're going to jump out of bed or cancel your holiday and go make that happen.
So like you mentioned, I think it is very dependent on the industry.
But if it's from a management side of things and it is a basic, you know, standard, you know, service or retail or hospitality industry sort of job, then I think that, and it's not necessarily commissioned based or involved specific knowledge like in the luxury industry, for example, I think that can be easily managed.
And also this is maybe good news for those working in the service industry because for, let's say, just regular white collar jobs, this isn't necessarily something worth talking about because people have pretty standard work schedules and it's the way it is.
And people kind of take it for granted.
I think since I've worked for this company, if I'm not mistaken, my work schedule hasn't changed once in 10 months.
So I think, you know, I mean, it can be managed in certain industries.
You sound like a lucky one.
Yeah. Well, certainly for those who work in the news industry, there are shifts.
Yes, because unlike, you know, regular white collar jobs.
Yeah, if you're dealing with breaking news, yeah, but I mean, I mean, the bulk of my responsibility is with a podcast.
So, you know, it's that kind of news is kind of gathered in advance.
So I guess it depends on which role you're working within a certain company too.
But also, yeah, yeah, I've seen journalists and news anchors as such, they behind closed doors would be a bit bigger about how the work schedule is being set up for them because sometimes it's kind of irregular.
For example, you go to work three days in a row and then you have one or two rest days and then the cycle repeats or, you know, sometimes there are disruptions because somebody's ill, somebody's decided that they're going to take up a different work shift and it affects you.
It's a team work thing as well.
That's the issue, even if there is good management, there are other outside factors that can really miss up the schedule.
Like you said, people getting sick or going on leave or whatever it may be and that can really throw a spanner in the works.
Yeah, and that's why, you know, having a certain level of stability or control can be really helpful.
Also bear in mind, not everybody's on standby 24 hours around the clock.
You've got people with families who have child rearing responsibilities as well as, you know, if you want to celebrate your girlfriend's birthday, which you know when that's coming up and you want to be there to do that and then it's good to know your scheduling.
Yes. And also besides, you know, the operational cost of this predict is scheduling.
I think, as you said, it's really closely related to the culture.
I mean, the workplace culture of certain companies.
I think, although we are in the news industry and I clearly remember that the first day I got to this company and I was told by my supervisor that since you are in the news industry, we don't really have a so regular schedule, which I'm really pretty prepared for.
But then since then I do observe that we have very scientific scheduling here.
I mean, the management level, they are trying to respect the personal life of each employee, you know, whether you are married or not.
I think which is also very, very important workplace culture for every employee, no matter which country she is, because we are not working machine, of course.
And we do want our needs to be respected.
So that's why we are talking about this predict scheduling.
I mean, I mean, they're having this even law or regulation to request employee years to have more scientific schedule.
And then, you know, on the other side, there are also arguments saying that it could also lead to extra management cost or operation cost for these employee years, because you do need to, you know, have some either special stuff or you need to invest in certain technology or scientific or innovation solutions to help you to really roll out this very scientific scheduling, which is, which could also be demanding or challenging, especially for smaller sizes companies in enterprises.
So I mean, do those smaller companies need that sort of tech?
I mean, if you're managing a startup like, you know, I mean, if you've got a staff of like 10 or 20 people, even if you're working in a 24, 7 industry like ours and the news industry, yes, you know, you are, I mean, as general employees, you are expected to be available 24, 7, but that can still be scheduled in advance.
And if someone's not, if you let someone know and monitor the advance, look, you're on the like 4 a.m.
to 10 a.m. schedule and they're not happy about it then at least if they know in advance, it can be a discussion between employee and management.
So if it is organized in advance, even if it is inconvenient to a certain amount of people, those issues can be resolved in time so that when that schedule does come along and those shifts need to be filled, it can be done.
Yeah. Well, okay, if you've got a small number of people, then I suppose an Excel spreadsheet should suffice.
But if you've got more people involved, then there are work scheduling apps out there.
And this is also, I think you just need somebody pretty, a pretty capable, administrative person in handling the scheduling and in communicating with workers.
I guess that's where hiring practices come into play as well.
You have to make sure that you put the right people into place to deal with the intricacies of something like this.
Right. And so I suppose the obvious benefits are like this can benefit the business and it can benefit the psychological well-being of people.
I wonder if you guys have anything to add there, but also I'd like you guys to share with us what could be the potential downside of this except for, okay, more administrative work?
Well, I think maybe not really everyone is into a very stable working schedule.
Maybe some people just want this flexibility and of course they can be on call whenever they're needed and which means that they are also expecting they can like leave their work whenever he or she is in need, which would also be granted by his or her employer.
So that's one major challenge.
I mean, what's the, I mean, to what degree you need to guarantee this stability and predictability and especially when you're talking about different industries say people working healthcare doctors, nurses or firemen, you don't really have this very clear stability to provide for employees.
That's a major challenge I can think of.
I think the majority of the discussions that we've had of all come in with regards to this topic all come down to industry specific needs.
So I think you need to be aware of whatever industry you're in.
You need to be aware of the pros and cons of that industry with regards to availability, flexibility, et cetera.
So I think that can come down to the perspective employee being aware of what is required of them and from the management side of things they can also inform employees before joining a company what is going to be expected of them so that they can agree to or move to that role and what is required of them or they can move on and look for another job.
So it can be managed from both sides.
And I think again, everything we've discussed is very specific to specific industries.
Well, one man's stability could be another's inflexibility and sure an individual can do our part.
But I still think it is absolutely paramount when the government realizes that hey, there's something that could be improved here and steps in and sets up a law and a potential penalty if those employers do not respect the can we say time management rights of individuals and I think the biggest thing there with legislation is that people should be compensated if they do go above and beyond their set schedule and make a lot of sacrifices to step in for the company when other people aren't available.
I think that's a big factor.
Reward those who are extra committed or just make themselves available when others don't know or step in when no one else is able to step in.
Yeah, be thoughtful as an employer as well.
Coming up next, Motivational Monday.
Motivational Monday. Lee, what do you have for us?
I would like to recommend a quote by Marissa Mayer who is also Google's first female engineer and also former Yahoo CEO.
She said, I always did something I was a little not ready to do.
I think that's how you grow.
When there's that amount of, wow, I'm not really sure I can do this.
And you push through those moments.
That's when you have a breakthrough.
I think this really makes a lot of sense.
Especially everyone, more or less, would really want to stay in our comfort zone from time to time, either it's work, study, personal growth, and even for yes, relationship, it could also happen.
We want to keep it that way.
It's pretty natural, I think, because we feel at the most the ease and we don't really want to be tested all the time.
Even if it's not the best situation for you, you often find it's a inter-re-able situation just because it's comfortable or something that they used to.
Yes, the ability and the security.
We want to avoid that feeling of anxiety or stress.
But the thing is that inside that comfort zone, we don't really typically engage in new experiences where take on any challenges.
We only participate in things that we are familiar with.
As comfortable as it seems, the safe bubble could just keep people from personal growth.
There's a saying, if you are not outside your comfort zone, you won't learn anything.
But of course, we are not really encouraging a rat race.
We are not really trying to push, always encourage people to push yourself even when you are not ready to do so, or even if you are already trying hard.
But really, I think it's about breaking your limits.
It's about knowing what you want to do and empowering yourself, especially in the comfort zone.
Some people, they have something to do, but simply they avoid doing things because they try to avoid failures or they don't really have the courage to do so.
In that sense, maybe it's time to get out of your comfort zone and you just need to push yourself a little bit.
If you want to do something, yet you think you are not ready, start by taking on projects or tasks that you maybe feel slightly uncomfortable with.
But really, they can offer you chances for growth and learning.
I think it's not just for work, but also for your personal life.
Maybe you just want to learn skiing or you want to learn surfing.
You don't really have the courage to do so.
Maybe it's just time to do so.
I think that could also offer you a much rewarding experience.
Very nice. Thank you Lee and Brandon.
What do you have for us? Well, mine comes from one of the most universally well-known Chinese minds, Confucius.
He said, it does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop.
I think that's a good message for people that are, like you mentioned, on a path trying something new or trying to get involved in personal growth.
Sometimes those achievements or wanting to learn something new or whatever it may be might not come immediately.
But as long as you're taking daily steps and making progress each and every single day and you track that progress and you congratulate yourself for that progress, no matter how slow it is, as long as you're making forward strides each and every single day or every moment, even if it's baby steps, moving forward is a positive thing.
So don't be perturbed by things not happening as quickly as you'd like.
Just be proud of the progress you've made and just keep your eyes on the prize and keep moving forward towards whatever your goal is.
That's like a motivational speech, possibly, from that tortoise.
And then it's like, oh, by hair, you're out there, but I'm going to catch up later and I'm going to surpass you.
Okay, a different kind of tone.
But thank you very much.
Yeah, sure. Brandon. I want to share with you a song by Lin Yilian called Yuan Zou.
Go Fei, Sandy, Lam Song, fly away.
As it is the perfect soundtrack for this Monday and upcoming International Labor Day holiday where we can take a break from our everyday routines.
The song's breezy style and Sandy's subtle but uplifting presentation are sure to resonate with anyone seeking a sense of freedom and adventure.
Fly away as a standout track from Sandy's album from 2001.
It's known for its empowering message and captivating melody.
And the lyrics, especially this line, take flight, break these shackles and with no road of return to claim.
And speak to the courage it takes to step into the unknown, to venture beyond the familiar something that Lee has been alluding to and even when faced with uncertainty.
It's a reminder that sometimes the path to growth and fulfillment requires us to let go of our fears and limitations to embrace change wholeheartedly.
With the holiday around the corner and many of you prepared to travel, let's embrace the thought of fly away and approach our time off with courage and enthusiasm.
So let's spread our wings and soar towards new experiences.
We open ourselves up to new possibilities and ultimately a deeper understanding of ourselves.
It's a message of empowerment I want to send to you and urging us to seize the moment and chart our own course.
Knowing that true freedom lies in our willingness to embrace the journey ahead.
And certainly Sandy Lam is not someone I don't think we've played her songs before on the show.
But today I guess is one of those days and it's an opportune time to play this song and this is certainly something that she's this is a well known track that almost defined her career.
And I really appreciate her leg of career marked by this song and afterwards because prior that she was married to a master exec music writer as well as producer and he hand molded her into I don't know if pathetic is right the right word but certainly someone who's a needy urban lady which is absolutely not who Sandy really is.
And here let's get a taste of the real woman that she's singing to her heart and so inspiring to a lot of people and so enjoy Sandy Lam.
Lin Yelian's song Yuan Zou Gaufe and that brings us to the end of today's show.
Thank you so much Brandon and Lee for joining the discussion.
I'm Ha Young. We'll see you next time.
