From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin.
This is Modern Love, and today I'm talking to comedian Rami Youssef.
I first learned about Rami by watching Rami, the sitcom he wrote and starred in.
The show was inspired by his own life, growing up as a first-generation Egyptian-American Muslim guy in New Jersey.
The show was funny and heartfelt and I remember thinking this Rami guy seems like the rare comedian who actually is kind of a sweetie.
Like, he was edgy, but he also just seemed very kind.
Now he's got a new special out.
It's called Rami Youssef in Love.
And when I heard that title, I was like, that sweet side of him is going to come out even more.
Maybe he'll talk about his wife.
I know he got married a few years ago.
And in the special, he does talk about his wife.
But he also talks about his dog.
Like a lot.
He really talks about his dog.
So today we're leaning in and we are doing a dog episode.
Rami and I talk about the kind of unconditional love that you really can only get from a dog, because dogs they don't judge you.
They can't ghost you.
They can't gossip about you.
They can't them or request you for half the drinks at the bar that they suggested at the date that they planned.
Dogs just love you.
Rami Youssef, thanks for being here.
Welcome to Modern Love.
Thanks for having me.
Okay Rami, we are a show about love and relationships, and usually I'm speaking to people about their relationships with other humans, but we are here today to talk about your relationship with your dog.
And I will come clean, this is the first time I've ever done an interview about an animal.
So thank you for this opportunity to learn and grow.
We'll get through it together.
I am nervous, though.
Yeah, no, when I heard that, I was really excited.
It's innovative.
Yeah, this is a first for us.
Okay, we'll start with the basics.
What is your dog's, what's your dog's name?
Basha.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which in Arabic means distinguished gentleman.
Basha.
Yeah.
What was the gentlemanly like qualities you sensed in this in this guy?
When he sits, he has like paw over paw. he's very he kind of like folds his yeah so he's he's always sitting quite elegantly he actually was he had been hit by a car in Tijuana and there was this rescue that that basically you know rescues these dogs and got him the surgery he needed and then So he'd been through a lot, and I felt that also.
There's a level of gentleman kind of perseverance in there.
He's got a past.
Yeah, he's got a past.
Tell me how he came into your life.
So my sister sent me his listing.
This was...
During COVID and I had torn some ligaments in my ankle and I was injured, and then I was kind of I wasn't able to do anything for many months.
And then I was like, all right, I want to get back out.
I'm going to be walking.
We started to kind of circle the idea of I thought maybe I'll get a dog.
My sister had a dog.
We had one growing up.
And so, of course, she took that as a green light to just send me dog listings.
And do listings, dog listings, total 100 percent things that they will not be able to take care of or pay for.
But what about you?
And so sending me a barrage.
And then I saw this one and I went, whoa, wait a minute.
I locked eyes with him and felt this connection just off of the photo, really because he had these eyes.
When I looked in his eyes, I thought, oh, man, this is my guy.
Okay, I'm going to pause here because I have heard this story.
You know again show about love and relationships.
I hear a lot of how people meet their partners.
And this to me sounds, I like forgot a bit that we were talking about a dog.
This does sound like you know, and there's various.
Like you see someone on Tinder, whatever you stop with the eyes.
Take me into that moment.
It's like, it really was like a freeze moment for you.
What was it?
What was it about the eyes?
The real truth is I don't know that I could put into words what I felt.
I just knew what I felt.
And the way I knew was when I spoke to the person, you know, from the rescue, I was nervous.
You know I felt on the phone butterflies almost you know of.
Oh, I hope I'm giving the right answers to get the questions.
Yeah.
So cute.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you did the phone call with the agency person about Basha and And then what happened?
He wasn't just yours after that, right?
Yeah, I went to a parking lot in San Diego a few hours from my house and Somewhere along the way I realized that there was going to be another family who we would essentially be kind of competing for the dog's affection to figure out who was going to take him.
The part I don't mention in the special actually is that the rescue brought another dog that they claimed was basically the same.
Wait, big reveal.
This is huge.
Okay.
They did.
But that dog, quickly.
Neither of us were that interested in him at the moment because he didn't look anything like the dog at all, like it was not what we came for.
That's a catfish.
Yeah yeah, it was a catfish with a dog.
Yeah, his name was eric and i would say, in terms of composure uh, you know how there's dogs that are just very um, you know, just those little barky dogs.
Yes, Eric was that.
You know it was not, he was closer to like a purse dog, you know.
You're being really kind about Eric, but it's seeming like you're not really loving Eric's vibe.
At a certain point, no one was even watching Eric and Eric easily could have run away.
Should have.
If I were Eric, I would have run.
This guy just hung out.
He hung out.
He didn't even try to run away.
He doesn't even know how to read vibes.
Yeah, I looked at him.
I was like, dude, go like you could have someone will.
No one likes you here.
Yeah.
OK, wait.
So then Basha finally comes out and then it's you and this family thing.
Yeah.
And we're trying to see who the dogs are going to, you know, who Basha is going to go towards.
And so, yeah, and then it did end up becoming a coin toss.
And that's how we found out that I would get to keep him.
When that coin was in the air, was it like time slowed down?
Yeah, there was this.
But you know what?
I had this innate, I just knew that was my dog.
I didn't have, it was, I was doubtless somehow once I got there.
I just felt this is what's going to happen.
I wonder too, just along this vein of like questions we ask about romantic partners and I would ask about like a conflict that they'd navigated.
So I want to pose this to you and Basha.
Has there been a tussle, an emotional tussle that you two have had to navigate together?
Well, one time, when we were living in LA, I yelled at him pretty like I yelled at him more than I've ever yelled, but it was because he was.
Basically out on the front yard of where we were.
And a coyote was trying to lure him out to this path.
Wait, wait.
Describe this scene.
So you're in the home.
Where are you?
I'm in the front yard.
And then this coyote pulls up to the perimeter of the yard.
Basha darts at him.
And then...
I know what this coyote's agenda is.
So I'm going, dude, don't fall for it.
And I scream at.
I scream in a way people can all of a sudden pick up a car because their kids are Of course, of course.
The way... The sound that came out of my body... Wait, can you mimic it?
No, no, no.
It would blow your mic.
I mean, it's crazy.
So I scream in this way that is so crazy.
And it actually... made him stop and made the coyote like just leave.
It was it was it was why it was really wild.
And then he ended up coming back.
But I this thing happened.
And I always thought it'd be cool to be able to actually get into what that was with him.
Oh, it's interesting because you yelled at him because you were so terrified.
But then when he came, because that is, I mean, that's terrifying.
When he came back into your arms, was it a thing where it was like, don't do that again?
Or was it just pure love?
Like, I have you back and you're safe.
I don't think it was either.
I think I was like, man, get inside, dude.
You're pissing me off, dude.
I can't believe you almost did that.
I was, I think I was only angry.
And then I had a sore throat for like two days because my, I really, no, no, no.
It was everything.
It was, it was like, I like might've blown a vote.
I don't know what I did.
I didn't get diagnosed, but it was pretty wild.
Yeah, there was nothing sweet about it.
I was like, you're inside now forever.
That makes sense.
You are married now.
You've been married to your wife for a few years.
But when you adopted Basha, where were you two in your relationship?
What was happening?
Yeah, we knew each other and it was kind of this, you know, I had wanted to meet her family and I hadn't yet.
So we but we were kind of not.
I think there was something to when we got when I got Basha where I think even with us, it was like.
I think he brought us even closer together.
You know, because it was You've got to tell me about that.
It was just this.
You know, when you're getting to know someone, there's always this like am I in?
Am I out?
And then I get this super cute dog and she's like, no, no, I'm definitely in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I just felt a confidence begin to emerge.
You know yeah, in her, or in you, or in both in her, i knew i think she maybe needed to still be sold, rightfully so.
And so the um, i would say basha, ultimate wingman you be like and bro, thank you so much for that.
Like that was that.
Oh yeah, you killed it.
Yeah, we're married now.
You probably.
Yeah, i love my life because of you.
Yeah, you are highlighting something that is interesting, which is like i have, you know, when you walk around with a cute dog, Whatever.
You're getting mobbed by people.
Right.
Like this is a it's a person magnet.
And really, it's like a feelings magnet.
Right.
Like people are so unguarded around dogs, in a way, we're so guarded around other people especially, in my experience, around people we're dating in early stages, with whom we want to show our best selves.
Right.
Like there's something about a dog that is an invitation to open up in a way that seems like it was useful for you, and you're then the person you were dating at the time, who's now your wife.
Can you remember, like, how did you introduce Basha to your now wife?
Was it a big deal.
She met him.
You know, it was because I we, I told her, I was like Hey, this is going to happen.
And, and, and so that was, that was very discussed about and, and, and, and exciting.
And, and I think that like, To your point, too, of how a dog can magnetize people towards you.
I'll have this thing happen to me when I'm walking in New York and People stop me – this is a thing that even before I had my show or I've ever had anything on TV, I did so much comedy in New York that people would stop me and be like hey, I saw you the other night at this comedy venue, whatever.
This has always been kind of my relationship with New York since my 20s, my early 20s.
But the funny thing is when I walk –
With Basha, people won't even see me.
They'll just see him.
And so it'll be this thing where I'll have an interaction with someone and people will talk to a dog and not even look at the person who's holding the dog.
And they have this like full on kind of, you know, talky like, you know, that cadence.
And then.
They don't even look at you, and then they walk away.
So sometimes that'll happen, or they'll have this thing with the dog and then, as they're walking away, already moving, they've already put one foot.
They'll lock eyes with me and I see them, and I see the thing where they're, like Rami, but then I just keep moving because I go, this is over.
You know, I, I really already have to, I already have to go somewhere.
And, and if there was going to be a moment, you know, you didn't even look at me.
You were just looking at the dog.
So yeah, this is over.
This is, this is, but in a weird way he.
He helps me draw less attention to myself because it becomes all about him.
And so it is very, um, He's very powerful in that way.
Okay, we have a dog-related essay for you to read for us.
It's a great one.
It's a heartwarming one.
I would love for you to take it away whenever you're ready.
Opening the Heart's Floodgates with a Paw by Amy Sutherland.
The quiet young man had come to me looking for love ideally, at first sight.
I asked my usual questions about his work, where he lived, how he spent his free time.
I asked about his great loves of the past, what had worked or not worked in those relationships.
Then I asked how he felt about being jumped on, slobbered on, or getting mud all over his couch.
I'm okay with that, he said.
Can I meet Chance?
Ah, Chance.
The young lab mix with a puppy zeal for life, who loved to chew on the shelter volunteer's hands as we leashed him.
Behave yourself for once, I urged Chance as I opened the kennel.
He was quiet as I slipped on a harness, but when we turned to leave, he began to buck wildly.
My heart sank.
Then I saw the face of the young man waiting by the door.
He'd gone all moony.
He only had eyes for Chance.
Much to my surprise, I've become a matchmaker.
On Saturday afternoons I pull on my gray t-shirt and head to the Animal Rescue League of Boston where I help people find their canine soulmates amid the barky din.
Doing this work, I've not only learned how to pair up people and canines.
I've received a masterclass in the expansiveness of the human heart, a lesson that I very much needed.
Being a matchmaker was never my plan.
I began volunteering at the shelter to help dogs, just dogs.
And the more time I spent with the dogs, the more my love for my fellow man withered.
At the shelter, I walked dogs that had been abandoned for trivial reasons or for no reason at all.
I cared for pups that had been tied to utility poles on the street in wintertime.
Others so thin they had to wear coats in balmy spring weather, lacking the body mass to stay warm at 60 degrees.
The more I walked these dogs, the more I became an animal person.
To be called an animal person is not necessarily a compliment.
Not when it implies that you love animals with a passion matched only by how much you loathe your own species.
Animal people can be judgmental, self-righteous, and cranky, all of which I was becoming.
As I spent more time at the shelter, I found that I became less patient with human beings, even my sweet husband.
Walking the dogs would cheer me up, but my mood would darken as I fixated on the stupidity and carelessness of my fellow homo sapiens.
On the subway ride home, I often caught myself frowning at strangers on the train.
Then I realized that if I truly wanted to help the dogs, I needed to do more than exercise or comfort them.
I had to help them get out of the shelter faster before kennel life turned them into whirling dervishes that no one would adopt.
So I asked to be trained to introduce dogs to their potential adopters.
In the early going, helping with adoptions made my dismal opinion of people worse.
I had to answer too many silly questions.
What are those droopy things on her belly and field nonsensical requests?
I want a dog I can create 12 hours a day, but who will run with me on weekends?
Then one Saturday afternoon I noticed a young outdoorsy couple walking down the row of kennels, stopping to say hello to each dog.
I asked if they wanted to meet one.
Can we meet Sierra?
The man asked.
Sierra?
I squeaked.
Really?
I mean, yeah, of course you can.
No one ever asked to see Sierra, a young mutt with skinny legs that went this way and that shiny and black like a seal.
She was cute, but regularly pooped right in her kennel, then ran back and forth in it.
She thought it was fun to grab your arm with her small mouth hard or, if you dared to sit on the floor, pounce on your head.
She zoomed around her kennels as if on amphetamines.
This was her big chance.
I didn't want to mislead this couple about what a nut she was, but I did want her to find a home.
I asked them to follow me to a bare-bones room with a stained rug and couch.
Why don't we stand, I suggested.
As I began reading the notes on Sierra out loud, I dropped her leash and hoped for the best.
She began ricocheting around the room, bouncing off the couch, the bookcases and the man's legs as her leash snapped behind her.
She was an airbound blur of black, her mouth wide open, joy in her eyes.
On one pass, she ripped my clipboard out of my hand and kept running.
As I muffled a sigh, the couple laughed.
Hard.
I looked up.
Their faces glowed.
I love her, the man said.
Me too, said the woman.
We want her.
Everyone knows that dogs can be firehose-like gushers of unqualified love.
Humans, in contrast, have always struck me more as takers than givers.
Fickle lovers who are cagey with their affections and hearts.
But in watching people tumble for goofballs like Sierra, I saw that my own species longs, maybe even needs to gush unqualified love too.
Something we rarely do with other humans, even with a mate.
A dog may eat our Italian loafers, but will never ghost us or say we need to have a talk.
With them, we can let it all hang out.
At the shelter.
That's what people did with our one-eyed pugs, our ancient hounds with bald patches and juveniles who hopped like kangaroos.
Watching people fall in love so completely with dogs, I began to see how humans long to give their hearts away.
Of course, there are outliers.
Cool customers set on French bulldogs of a certain shade or people who turn up their noses at pit bulls, even the smush-mouthed little pity puppies.
And the difficulties of human relationships can keep the love from flowing.
I spent one afternoon introducing one small dog after another to a doughy man and his wife.
As the man sighed happily at each pooch, his wife ran her hand over the dog's coat, then sniffed her manicured fingers to check on her allergies.
Not him.
He's making me sniffle.
By the end of the afternoon, the man was sitting in the lobby with his head in his hands, while his wife dug her fingers into a tangle of white fur named William.
You're breaking my heart, he moaned.
I wanted to tell him to take William and leave the wife behind.
But most of us are like the middle-aged couple who came in looking for a mellow pint-sized dog to fit in their one-bedroom beachside apartment.
We had no miniatures that day.
But on a long shot I pointed the men to a good-natured shepherd mix with a coat like a shag rug about the size of a motorcycle.
He might take up half the couch, I told them, but he'll happily lounge all day.
He's gigantic, one exclaimed, smiling.
We should go, the other said.
For the next hour.
Each time I walked in and out of the kennels, there stood the couple beaming at the behemoth watching them fall for the fuzzy giant a dog completely at odds with what they claimed to want.
I felt the remaining coldness in my heart for my species begin to thaw.
I wanted to help them.
I wanted to help people do what they so obviously needed to do.
Love wholeheartedly, with reckless abandon.
I had always thought of love as a response, but this couple and others showed me that it's an innate feeling, something we are born with and need to express.
Many of us have more love inside than we know what to do with, but are too bottled up, which is where dogs can come in.
With them, we can let our love flow freely without fear of being judged or rejected.
They are like safety valves.
They certainly had become that for me.
But as I saw the couple making kissy noises to the shepherd through his kennel door, I realized I had relied on dogs for this to a fault.
With humans, I had bottled myself up and love doesn't like to be bottled up.
That's how you end up frowning at strangers on the train.
Watching people fall in love is contagious.
I began to swoon at the whole scene.
I loved the dog.
I loved the couple.
Okay, time you all met.
I announced grabbing a leash.
Soon after, the three of them went home together to try to squeeze into their cozy apartment.
I returned to the kennels. to help more people toss their hearts away.
Stay with us.
Okay, so the author writes that many of us have more love inside us than we know what to do with.
We're too bottled up and that's where dogs come in.
We can let our love flow freely without fear of being judged or rejected, she writes.
Do you agree with the author on this?
Is this how you feel around Basha?
Yeah, I mean, there's an unlocking, I think, of love that I felt.
You know, I think I felt something especially having a dog as an adult, as opposed to when I had one as a kid because, You know, I remember the childhood dog that we had when he passed away and It was so hard.
And so you don't know that the first time you get a dog as a kid.
Like you kind of can feel it in the abstract, but you don't want to think about it.
And I think a friend of mine had told me this quote, and I think it's a quote.
I don't think it's his, but you know that dogs are here to teach us about death.
Because You love in such an unfiltered, massive way, like this piece so beautifully put.
And you so definitively know, or best case scenario, is that the dog dies before you, right?
So that is a...
There's a lot you learn from that about love and that you still give into it.
You're aware of the finite nature of it, right?
And so, because you're aware of that you're saying, you just pour so much of yourself into it, into this relationship.
Why can't we seem to do that with humans, is my question to you.
Like, what's our problem when it comes to them?
I mean, I think that we should.
I mean, you know, there's a hubris in thinking that we know how long we will be around or our loved ones will be around.
You know, and we've all.
I mean maybe not all.
I've certainly had friends who were there one day and weren't the next day.
And that is really hard, you know, and and you kind of go, man, you know, I wish this or that.
And I think that there's something to yeah, just kind of being present with the gratitude as much as we can, to the capacity that we can look.
No, we don't.
It's delusional maybe to say that genuinely living every day like your last day, but what if we were able to kind of live more days that way?
That could be cool.
More days than not.
Because dogs might be doing that.
Yeah.
I mean, it's the classic thing, but it's like every time you come home.
I would assume Basha is like the first time you've ever come home ever.
I mean, it's so wonderful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The author writes that she's an animal person, but she has her doubts about humans.
Would you say animal person... human person, which one are you?
Which one do you tend towards?
I mean both, but honestly I'm probably more of a human person, you know, because I think that there is kind of this essential responsibility to be super nuanced and loving with humans.
That is actually kind of described here, which i think she's so beautifully named.
I think she names it in a very vulnerable way, but when you see it in practice, sometimes it is kind of hard to reckon with, because you kind of go hey um, do you only care about dogs, like what?
Like what's going on?
Dude, can you get it together?
It is interesting.
It is weird.
You know, I mean, it's not, you know, I'm not saying it from a judgment.
I mean, maybe I am being judgmental.
I don't know.
But I am definitely judgmental.
Yes.
OK.
But like and she is so she gets it as well.
So she's saying it in a very poetic way.
But she's kind of like, yeah, this is an issue, you know.
Okay, I want to be clear on again what you're sort of judging but not judging which again, I think the author probably is too which is like people who are animal people.
Yeah.
But to the exclusion of being a human person.
It's like you can extend this love towards a dog, right?
Yeah.
But this love is not as readily or freely given towards a human.
And I guess that's why I ask you the impossible question of like.
Well, how can we take that love, that pure unfiltered joyful, uncomplicated love we have for animals and transmute it onto our love for humans?
But I'm realizing as is, it's just impossible.
Like dogs can't- No, no, it's not impossible.
It takes practice.
It just takes practice.
Okay, well tell me how, like how?
You are learning how to, be expansive and take people as they are.
Jokingly, my judgment is really around the same observation she points out, which is for a lot of people They let it end with the animal and don't even try to extend it into the human.
I'm not saying it's a seamless thing.
I'm not saying it'll reach the same level, but I think that we're all teaching each other something.
Yeah, I like that.
Loving dogs can be a gateway to loving humans.
More fully, yeah.
You mentioned when people run into you on the street with Basha.
They're like loving on Basha and then they look up at you and they're like, all right, bye, dude.
Like they don't even register you sometimes.
And so I'm thinking about like an immediately implementable way to start loving humans a little more, like I love animals.
And I'm not going to use a baby voice around humans, but I will find myself I live in New York too walking down the street and, like I am, clocking dogs.
I'm looking at dogs.
I'm making eye contact.
I'm smiling with dogs.
Like I'm really acknowledging their existence around me.
And I don't, but I'm like on the train, I'm eyes averted, not making eye contact with anyone.
And so again, I'm working this out as I'm saying this, but I'm like maybe there is a way where I can just like meet someone's eyes and we can validate each other's existences and we can smile, just like I do with dogs.
You think that's a good first step?
Uh, maybe not as a woman.
I wouldn't do that because that's going to open up a whole other can of worms for you.
I would keep.
The stoic lack of eye contact, because if you give these guys an inch on the subway, I mean they're just going to be chasing you up the stairs like the coyote for your number.
Yeah, yeah, it is not.
There's unfortunately.
Yeah, that's part of it.
Yeah, you're so right.
As soon as I said that, I was like but I don't want to be doing that no, you can't do that.
Yeah, so totally, we'll wait to shoot it down, but thank you for looking out.
Okay, think with me for like one second.
Like what is a way we can try to extend our love for a dog to humans in a way that doesn't like make our commutes just total living hell?
You know um, You know how, like sometimes you'll go into a store and they'll have like a little jar that has dog treats for the dogs.
Yes.
I think that stores that have food should have food for people who can't afford food.
Like just some bread, bread for if you don't have money.
And I swear people will not take advantage of it and will know to leave it for the people who don't have money.
I really love that.
This like, hey, you're hungry.
Take this treat just because, you know, it's on us to extend that.
How much does every restaurant in this city throw out at the end of the night?
Hmm.
I mean, I get it.
It's hard.
I don't have a food business.
But just to your question, that's the first thing that comes to mind.
Another big part of the essay is that Amy marvels at how people will come in thinking they want one type of dog and they come out with a totally different type of dog.
Which brings me to my question, which you sort of touched on.
But it's like, does the dog choose the human, or does the human choose the dog, or is it a bit of both?
What do you think?
Well, I firmly believe that the reason you start something is not the thing that you have to remain loyal to.
So I guess, like the way that I kind of want to say that is like sometimes this is, this happens all the time in the creative process.
You have an immediate idea.
All right.
There's two pieces to that.
There's the idea, that is kind of the concrete thing that it looks like, and then there's the reason you want to execute the idea, which is actually the important thing.
It's kind of the spiritual compulsion to what's making you attracted to even trying to connect with people, vis-a-vis the specific idea.
Once you start going down that road, the way the specific idea looks changes all the time.
And the goal is that it should change to kind of match your natural inclination as much as possible.
And so what I thought was so beautiful here is this invitation to humans to not be so kind of cemented in their preconceived notions, to not be so rigid or even biblical to their just initial desire and kind of saying well, that's not going to move, because I had this idea.
That's not a way to find a human partner.
And it's obviously in this essay, not a way to find a dog.
And so I think the Thing that was so beautiful in zoning in on it this way is just it's this invitation to kind of say all right, you came here for the right reasons, but you might get something that looks different than what was in your head.
And that isn't a betrayal, if anything.
That might be like an actualization of what your true emotion was, and less your idea of your emotion.
I mean, it is this thing where it's like, maybe we just don't know what we want.
Maybe we just don't know.
We could be wrong.
And to allow ourselves the flexibility to grow and change.
I think it's you're giving yourself the ability to feel what you want, as opposed to think what you want.
And I think there's something that's kind of intuitive that can happen where it's like less logical.
And I don't mean that in something being logical. you know, not thought through.
It's really important to engage your brain.
I don't think chasing feelings is a way to live, but I think that there's a real difference between kind of chasing carnal whims and having intuition and kind of knowing.
You know, I have an intuitive feeling here and that this is right because that does.
The brain worked on that.
But then you're trusting, you know, that's trusting your gut, you know.
I mean, I'm thinking back to the coin toss, where it was your fate of whether you'd have Basho was going to be decided.
And this part of you knew.
Yeah, I knew.
I knew how I was going to spend.
Yeah, I knew exactly.
Hearing you talk about the sort of, you know, knowing what we want, but the idea of it remaining.
I mean all of this.
I'm like you already have enough jobs, but I'm like you would do really well at a dog adoption agency.
I just do think you'd do well, you know, like doing Amy's job.
You know, I used to work at the Apple store, which is very similar.
I could kind of guide people to whether they needed a MacBook Air or a Pro.
It's very similar.
Some people walked in thinking they needed a Pro.
And then the more we talked about it, I'd say, I think you need an Air.
You don't need that much compute.
Think about your gut, your intuition.
Is it an Apple watch?
Yeah.
I know like a high amount of RAM feels right, but what do you actually need?
Just get the iPod mini.
I mean, I guess like big picture Amy is talking about how watching humans with dogs is has sort of reaffirmed her belief in all of our capacity to love.
Dogs have taught her about love.
And I feel like I've asked you this question in various guises, but I want to ask again because you have such nice answers.
What do you think Basha?
What has Basha taught you about love?
He he's, he helps me sometimes do nothing, which is hard for me.
So there are times where i kind of go okay, can i just spend time with him just rolling around on the carpet doing nothing other than that.
That's a big lesson in um being still, you know.
You know it's weird, but rolling around with the dog is a form of stillness because it's yeah again, I'm not engaging anything.
In presence, you're being present.
Yeah.
Rami Youssef, thank you so much for this conversation.
I so enjoyed it.
Thank you.
The Modern Love team is Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Lynn Levy, Reva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis.
This episode was produced by Elisa Gutierrez.
It was edited by Lynn Levy and Davis Land.
Our mix engineer was Daniel Ramirez.
Original music in this episode by Alicia Beitup, Amin Sahota, Diane Wong, and Dan Powell.
Dan also composed our theme music.
The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones, and Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects.
If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to The New York Times, we have the instructions in our show notes.
I'm Anna Martin.
Thanks for listening.
