This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human.
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?
Think again.
More Americans listen to podcasts than add supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.
And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.
Learn how podcasting can help your business.
Call 844-844-iHeart.
Joy is essential and it's also elusive.
But now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.
Joy 101.
It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotb.
If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting and moving on-air chats.
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101 and listen now.
Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS.
My first guest is Terrence Hilton, Shakira, Luke, and Yerin.
We have surprises.
Many surprises.
Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast, where the group chat comes to life.
What up?
You're the only person I know that loves a yellow Starburst.
It's lemonade.
This is Sweet 305.
Here, oversharing is encouraged.
Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio.
Good morning.
This is Laura.
Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a slightly longer one part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us.
So today I am delighted to welcome Allison Shepardak to Before Breakfast.
Allison is the founder of Elevate Etiquette.
She is the author of Was It Something I Said?
So Allison, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
I'm delighted to be here.
I am so happy to have you as well.
Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Thank you.
My name is Allison Shepardak and I'm the founder of Elevate Etiquette, where I write and share about etiquette for your life, work and love.
I also teach international protocol and executive presence.
I'm a former attorney, former TV news reporter and anchor.
And that's some of the experience that I bring to my work today, doing a lot of content creation, speaking and writing.
Wonderful.
And I'm sure, Barry, we're curious how one becomes known as an etiquette expert.
I understand you've had quite a varied career.
I mean, you were like at the White House.
You also were an ice dancer.
I mean, we've really, really been all over the map.
Oh, thank you.
So it started when my husband and I were engaged to be married and I realized I had all of these wedding etiquette questions that I didn't know the answer to.
Like, does every cousin get a plus one or how do I address this envelope?
And so my mom suggested that I got that I get my first etiquette book.
And I did.
And I got that book thinking that I would just look to the pages that had the answers I was looking for.
And then I found myself reading that first book cover to cover.
And then I was working as a news reporter.
I ended up going to law school and practicing law.
And I kept learning about etiquette on my own time, reading books about emotional intelligence and protocol and etiquette.
And then I decided to get a certification in British and North American etiquette to teach it not necessarily thinking, but I would teach it.
But it was something that I thought would be really enjoyable.
And I saw it as like a non-conventional personal growth opportunity for myself.
And then it was while I was in that program that I was surrounded by other people with these thriving businesses around the world and protocol and etiquette.
So I saw that as proof of concept.
And then I started posting on social media and it resonated with an audience pretty quickly to a point that I had confidence to keep going.
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
So I think a lot of people have some misconceptions, though, about etiquette.
I mean, I think if you ask the average person what is etiquette, they would think it's.
You know which fork do I use?
And there's some element of that.
But I think you would say that it's more about one's soft skills.
Is that correct?
Absolutely.
And there is an element to your point of knowing, like which is your bread plate and which is your water, and how to navigate a formal dining scenario.
But that's not the point.
The point is not to show off that you know which fork to use in a given scenario.
It's to make it like muscle memory, like for athletes, like something that you don't need to think about, so that you can be confident and you can focus on those moments that matter and the connection and make what might not be a very civilized moment of eating what was once an animal or something like that into a more pleasant, civilized experience.
And it's definitely most importantly about like kindness and honoring other people well.
Yeah.
Well, we definitely want to honor other people and be kind.
And part of that is about how we make conversations.
I know in your book, was it something I said, you devote a section to better small talk.
I wonder if you could give our listeners some advice on how to make better small talk.
Sure.
So, with small talk I recommend.
Whether you're going to a high school reunion or you're just going about your daily life, I recommend having some topics that you're ready to talk about with pretty much anybody.
The things that I recommend staying away from are money, sex, politics, religion, and health status.
The sneaky one in there is health status, because sometimes you can be talking about your diet or your exercise routine and it can almost come across as like a religion or like you should be eating or exercising the way that I do.
So that's a sneaky one.
But in general, the idea here is not to think about what's impressive and what's going to make me sound really smart.
It's what's something that I'm genuinely interested in, that I can speak to for a little while, but I also think that these other people that I'm speaking with are going to be interested in talking about too.
So that leaves plenty of room for lots of things like your hobbies sports, anything you've read, listened to, watched recently that you enjoy tradition, something you're looking forward to music, performing arts food restaurants, travel the list keeps going and going.
So just family-friendly things that you're comfortable talking about are great.
Do you have a favorite question you like to ask people in small talk situations?
So it depends on the crowd, but I like to ask people how they've been spending their time lately.
Or if I'm at a party, I like to ask people how they know the host or what brings them there.
Or if you're ever feeling really stuck commenting or I don't like the word stuck but if you're ever feeling like you don't know what to say next, Commenting on things that you're experiencing together with other people.
So, whether it's like the architecture or the flowers or the food that are part of an experience, like at a wedding reception, those are great to talk about too.
And how does one politely exit a conversation?
Let's say you're at a cocktail party or networking event and obviously you don't want to monopolize people's time.
You want to talk to lots of people.
What's a polite way to exit a conversation?
So...
To start remember that when you go to a cocktail reception, that your responsibility is not to talk to the first person that you see for the whole rest of the evening.
But for some reason, it can feel rude or wrong to separate yourself.
But Feel empowered to know that that's not the goal or that's not the expectation.
Mixing and mingling is actually more polite as a guest.
And so know that and then be really present in the conversation.
So use eye contact. be nodding, talking with your hands, showing that you're paying attention.
There should be a give and take.
So you're asking some questions, you're answering some questions.
It doesn't feel like a one-sided interview.
And then very clearly wrap it up.
Clarity is kind.
Ambiguity is not.
And you certainly don't want to lie.
So you don't want to say like, I'm going to run to the restroom and I'll be right back.
I'm going to refill my drink.
Can they get you anything when you really have no intention of returning?
Instead, say like, it was so wonderful to see you.
I'll look forward to seeing you.
I think we'll see you next week at the graduation or something like that.
Or say, I hope you enjoy the rest of this evening.
It's great when you can say, I really enjoyed talking to you.
I'm so glad we could catch up and then insert specific facts about what you talked about.
So it shows that you were paying attention.
And then, if you can, you can introduce someone to someone else, if maybe they don't know as many people.
And that can be a way to start a new conversation that you can then step away from.
But you don't need to do that.
Those are just some tools that you can use based on the situation.
Excellent advice.
Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and I'll be back with more from Allison Shepardek.
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting.
Think again.
More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.
And as the number one podcaster, I heart's twice as large as the next two combined.
So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.
Plus only I heart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.
Think podcasting can help your business?
Think iHeart.
Streaming, radio, and podcasting.
Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com.
That's iHeartAdvertising.com. and useful tools to help maximize joy.
So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together.
We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming.
I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult.
There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression.
I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety.
Olympic champ Shawn Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast.
There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me.
It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us.
We just have to find it.
Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin, Samira and Gracie.
I'm so excited.
On the bouncy bed.
You have surprises.
Many surprises.
Welcome to Suite 305, where the group chat comes to life.
What up?
It's like a way of saying, like, hello, friend.
Hello, best friend.
Hello, sister.
What up?
What up?
You're the only person I know that loves a yellow Starburst.
You're the only person I know that loves a yellow Starburst.
This is Suite 305.
Listen to Suite 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Cultura podcast network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Well, I am back talking with Alison Shepardak, who's the author of Was It Something I Said?
A sought after etiquette expert.
It's a bit of a mouthful to say there.
So let's Let's talk a little bit about business meals.
What tends to go wrong in these situations?
And I know a lot of people feel awkward, especially if they're new in their careers.
They're eating with people maybe from other organizations or different levels of their companies.
What are some tips for having a good experience here?
I would start with what to order.
So if you are having a business meal, if you are the one who is footing the bill like, let's say, you're having a client out to lunch make sure that you're really clear on the budget that you can allocate for this meal and that you're not going to blow the budget if the client happens to get something that's really expensive.
If you are the person who is trying to decide what to have on a menu, generally getting something that's mid-range.
So not necessarily like the Wagyu beef and caviar, but also not a salad as your entree at a dinner kind of situation.
Middle of the road is best.
You also want to be ordering things that are...
So French onion soup might be a better meal for a date night than a job interview.
And things that you don't need to eat with your hands are better, because often in a business meal you might be shaking hands with folks.
So that's something to keep in mind.
And you never want to come across as though you're taking advantage of this opportunity to indulge on And this is the case whether it's a business meal or any meal where you're not paying for the meal yourself.
You want to be really conscious of that and also be prepared to think, to talk about things beyond work.
And generally, if you are the one who is being hosted, let your host be the first one to bring up work.
Sometimes it doesn't happen and you know dessert is coming and you're wondering when you're going to talk about the thing that you were thinking you were going to talk about for work purposes.
But if you are the guest in a business context, it's nice to start with some of those like family friendly topics that we were talking about before that are good small talk topics.
I'm curious, is there any polite way to eat a burger?
I mean, I wouldn't order a burger on a job interview.
But is there any way to do it and look dignified?
So you can cut it in half and the Internet is definitely divided on no pun intended on this.
But if you cut a burger in half and then eat it like a sandwich, it can be more manageable.
Okay, so things aren't falling out everywhere.
You have a list in your book of things to say when someone shares good news.
Some examples of things, of ways you can sort of nicely celebrate with someone and maybe some things to avoid.
Can you talk about that with us?
Yes, thank you.
So so often, people can be really excited to share something, and then they can feel deflated by the comments that they receive, even though that's not the intention.
So things that are not the best to say when someone's celebrating something are like what's next?
Like, let's say they just publish a book or they just graduated and it's like, well, what's next?
And it's like well, I'm just trying to enjoy this present moment and this present success before I talk about the next season, or saying something like better you than me?
Or saying like are you sure you're ready for that?
Or anything that kind of inserts, um, any sort of anxiety about that next season.
So instead saying something like, how are we celebrating?
Or I'm so proud of you, or you really worked so hard for this, or it couldn't have happened to a better person.
Or, you know, I can't, like all of those kinds of things are much better.
And you also don't want to make someone else's exciting news about you.
So making sure not to say, oh, that's great that happened to you.
Here's the thing that happened to me, right?
Exactly.
Or like if someone maybe achieved something that you once achieved, making it all about sharing your story of your achievement instead of letting them be the star in that moment.
And the same idea of focusing on the other person comes into when you're giving somebody a compliment.
I loved your advice on making sure that the compliment is about them and is not about you towards them.
Can you explain a little bit about what that means?
Yes.
So instead of making the compliment seem like congratulations in my opinion, you know, you look fabulous, or you did this so well saying it more as like a compliment, an observation.
That's about them.
So like, instead of I think you look beautiful in the color blue, you look beautiful in that color, is something that's more about the other person.
All right.
So a good way to give a better compliment right there.
You have some tips as well for being a good host.
So let's say I'm having some people over to my house.
What are some things I can do to extend that idea of etiquette being about kindness and putting people at ease into welcoming people into my house?
So first you want to be thinking of the guests.
So what are the questions that the guests will want to know, or how can you make them feel more comfortable?
So let them know, like, is this going to be a dinner?
Is it going to be hors d'oeuvre?
Should they eat in advance?
Will it be outside?
Should they plan to wear shoes that are good on the grass?
Those kinds of things.
And then be thinking about your guest list and who you want to be introducing.
And if you're going to do a seating arrangement, I really like a seating arrangement.
Think about who you'd like to connect, like maybe put your more gregarious friend next to your more shy friend.
I really love a table that mixes people of different ages.
Intergenerational tables can be wonderful.
They encourage kids to use their good dining etiquette and try different foods and have conversations that are maybe a little more sophisticated than they might otherwise, and be willing to accept help but know that you don't have to um.
Ask your guests for dietary restrictions before they come over.
You don't need to necessarily make something if it's going to be very complicated, but always let any guest that has a dietary restriction bring something that would meet their needs if you're serving something that isn't going to be a good fit for them that kind of a thing.
And for guests, you also talk about things that seem polite, but aren't.
I imagine one of those is showing up too early, right?
Yes, yes.
Showing up early is definitely a big one.
This is not a dentist appointment.
You don't want to be showing up early to a bridal shower, because anyone who's hosted anything knows that a lot of the magic happens in that final moment before the door is opened.
Another thing that people think is polite but actually isn't is when a host says that you can get started or you can help yourself in the buffet.
Not getting in line because, Or not starting because you don't want to be the first one.
You actually can do that because a host... if they've told you to get started, they mean it.
And it probably means like they want everybody to enjoy the food while it's warm.
They've put all this work into getting all of these different dishes ready at the right temperature at the right time.
So don't be afraid to do that.
Another one is insisting on helping even when the host says they're all set.
If a host says they're all set, That's fine.
You don't need to feel guilty about not helping get the appetizers ready.
Another one is cleaning up without asking a host their preferences.
So maybe you have a survival of the fittest approach to the dishwasher at home, but you're host likes to hand wash some of the pieces from her grandmother or whatever it is.
Just ask before you assume and start cleaning things or putting things away though the way that you might, because it might not be the same, always thinking about what the other person would want.
Well, we're going to take one more quick ad break.
And when I come back, I'm going to hear about Allison's time tracking, because it turns out that Allison is a fan of time tracking as well.
Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.
Think podcasting can help your business?
Think iHeart, streaming, radio, and podcasting.
Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com.
That's iHeartAdvertising.com.
Hey, I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.
Okay, if you know me, you know this.
I'm always searching for inspiration, for support and useful tools to help maximize joy.
So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together.
We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people.
Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges together that she never saw coming.
I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult.
There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression.
I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety.
Olympic champ Shawn Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast.
There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me.
It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us.
We just have to find it.
Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin, Samira and Gracie.
I'm so excited.
On a bouncy bed.
You have surprises.
Many surprises.
Welcome to Suite 305, where the group chat comes to life.
What up?
It's like a way to say, like, hello, friend.
Hello, best friend.
Hello, sister.
What up?
What up?
You're the only person I know that loves a yellow Starburst.
This is Suite 305.
Listen to Suite 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Cultura podcast network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Well, I am back talking with Allison Shepardak, who is the author of Was It Something I Said?
And is also an etiquette expert.
And as it turns out, is a long-term time tracker.
So Allison, you started tracking your time about the same time I did over a decade ago.
Is that right?
That's right.
So I started.
It was the summer before I went to law school and it was all inspired by reading your book when it had first come out.
And I started, I think in July or August of 2015 and I've never stopped.
And it's...
It's been so helpful for me.
I really admire your whole mindset and outlook on time and how people are a good use of time and how we often I think I had a, I didn't have a very
I had a biased view, I think, of how I spent my time until I started to look at it on paper and realized that, as you write about, we've remembered the extremes.
But if we have the data, we can be less biased in our observations.
I'm curious, are you tracking on paper?
I mean, what are you using, an app, Excel?
What's your time tracking tool?
I for a long time I was not using it on paper, even though I kind of I do have some paper that I will use.
Like I use paper for all of my tasks throughout the day that need to get done.
And so I manually cross them off.
But for any sort of meeting or you know, I put everything in there, like getting ready for the day and showering, and like everything is in there and I have that all digital.
For me, it's easier because I can repeat them.
I don't have to keep writing it down.
So that's why I like it to be digital.
Excellent.
And do you have a morning routine?
I understand that you have a morning routine.
Yes, I do.
So when I wake up, the first thing I do is I listen to a podcast or a book, a podcast like this one.
And I empty the dishwasher because I always run the dishwasher last thing before I go to bed.
So I empty the dishwasher and then I head to the gym, immediately work out, come home and then make breakfast and read the news as I'm having breakfast and get myself oriented for the day.
What kind of workout do you like to do?
Although I understand maybe that's not the best question to ask now.
Okay.
Um, I, so I like to do solid core.
I usually do solid core, um, three times a week.
And then I work with a personal trainer and do like heavy lifting three days a week.
And then I try to and I don't do this all in the morning, but at some point throughout every day.
I aim to get at least 10000 steps.
And what does a workday tend to look like for you?
A workday for me, not every day is exactly the same.
And I have a very integrated approach to my work.
So I'm not like a, I only work from nine to five and I'll be bothered to get an email past five.
I typically, like while I'm reading the news, I'm...
Also, you know, starting to look at emails in the morning and I'm starting to get work done.
I do different types of work on different days and it's not necessarily the same every single week.
Like I'll look at like... So I...
If I have speaking engagement, I know I'll be doing my hair and makeup for that.
And so I'm also going to shoot a lot of content that day, because I don't want to do my hair and makeup every day.
And...
So I'm very efficient in that way.
And then I try to do more things like filling out expense reports and admin type work and more logistical things, all in the same chunk of time.
And I generally plan out my weeks on... a combination of Friday and Saturday.
So by Sunday, I have the schedule pretty much in place.
So I know like, these are the days I'm going to do on-camera work.
These are the days I'm going to do writing.
These are the days I'm going to be traveling or have less control over some logistics.
So, I don't know if that was a perfect answer to your question.
But every day is a little bit different.
But I have my non-negotiables for the day and my non-negotiables for the week.
And I find a way to fit them in.
Do you mean non-negotiables both professionally and personally?
Yes.
Yeah.
So, whether it's like...
So I have non-negotiables professionally, especially on the daily, in terms of the amount of content that I put out.
So I'm typically posting three times to Instagram and then I'm syndicating that content to other social media platforms.
And I have a certain number of Substack articles that I'm writing a week.
So I'm not necessarily writing them at the same time every single week, but I'm definitely getting them done.
Got it.
Got it.
And since you travel a lot with a lot of your different engagements where you're teaching etiquette to different audiences, I'm curious, if you have a travel etiquette faux pas, that you see people doing a lot that drives you crazy.
Okay, I could go on and on about this, but one of them is when people there's so many things, but when people have been waiting in line, when they're like not ready, when it's their turn in line, when it's like a surprise that they need their boarding pass or they need their ID, or.
And then another one is when, as soon as the airplane leaves, lands and it's not your turn, like getting up, as if that's going to make things faster, or you know, that's another one.
Yeah.
There's, it's like somebody who's rushing from the back of the plane.
It's like, sorry, buddy, it's not going to happen.
It's not going to happen.
There's like 200 people in front of you and it's a small space.
So yeah.
And I would say Yeah, luckily I don't think this happens as much because now some airlines have policies against it.
But basically listening to anything without ear pods or earphones in, I don't understand.
Yeah.
I don't understand it either, but I don't know.
Some people hope springs eternal, perhaps that nobody else can hear it, or else they're just not thinking about it.
So Allison, I always ask my guests what is something you have done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
So recently and this is not an advertisement at all, but I started using an app or a program called Superhuman for email.
And it's been really helpful for me.
I have several email accounts and I get a lot of spam emails, just by the nature of the work that I do and the public nature of my email.
So it's been very, very helpful in streamlining that whole process.
It sort of gamifies answering emails and there is some AI that can help you with some.
Like I, have a lot of emails that the exact same response would be appropriate for, so it makes it easier to streamline that process.
And does it actually allow you to spend less time on email?
I mean, you track your time, so I guess you know.
Yes.
Okay.
All right.
Like a lot less time? significantly less well.
And also I was.
I had gotten to a point where my email was feeling like daunting and I was procrastinating on it and it was becoming overwhelming.
So, um, so it's been really positive in that way.
Excellent.
Alison, where can people find you?
You can find me at elevateetiquettecom, and then also at elevateetiquette on Instagram TikTok, YouTube threads and then at the elevate edit on Substack.
And then my book, Was It Something I Said, is available in all formats wherever books are sold.
Well, awesome.
Well, Allison, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening.
If you have feedback about this or any other episode, you can always reach me at laura, at lauravandercamcom.
In the meantime, this is Laura.
Thanks for listening.
And here's to making the most of our time.
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas or feedback, you can reach me Before.
Breakfast is a production of iHeart Media.
For more podcasts from iHeart Media, please visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Joy is essential and it's also elusive.
But now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.
Joy 101.
It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotb.
If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting and moving on-air chats.
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101 and listen now.
Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS.
My first guest is Terrence Hilton, Shakira, Luke, and Yerin.
We have surprises.
Many surprises.
Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast, where the group chat comes to life.
You're the only person I know that loves a yellow Starburst.
It's lemonade.
This is Sweet 305.
Here, oversharing is encouraged.
Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
American soccer is exploding.
The knockout rounds are here.
The U.S. won their group, and now every match is win or go home.
I'm Tab Ramos.
And I'm Tom Boger on our podcast inside american soccer.
We'll talk about the real storylines, discuss the tactics that actually decide matches and give you the truth about the us national team from inside the program.
Whether you're a lifelong fan or this is your first world cup, We've got you covered.
Listen to Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogert and Tab Ramos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is an iHeart Podcast.
Guaranteed human.
