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Anandip, thanks for joining us today.
Thank you for having me.
It's an absolute pleasure, Kwame, to be in your program, in your show.
Thank you very much man it is a pleasure to have you.
How about you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Sure. I have been in the speaking business for 13 years now.
It was 2010 when I did my first workshop, first seminar.
And by now I have done close to 1000 workshops in the last 13 years of my speaking career.
700 have been in person in the physical room.
And thanks to pandemic, I learned the Zoom way.
So I've done close to 300 in the last four years or so.
And I've been blessed to put my name alongside some big names like Tony Robbins, Les Brown, Robert Kiyosaki.
I've represented some big companies in the seminar world like a great success resources.
Success Gyan. I've authored six books by now.
And I think life is blessed, I plan to do this almost 17 years back attending a Tony Robbins program, and I'm living my passion, so yeah, I think it's just absolutely amazing.
God has been very kind and I'm very, very grateful, you know, to be where I am today.
Incredible. And I can just, as you're talking about your career, I think one of the things I want to note for the listeners and just, I want to share that I see this too, there is a glow, there is a passion and enjoyment that you get from just talking about what it is that you do and then knowing that you're helping people.
And also, this is a passion that you've had and a dream that you've had and you're leaving your dream.
So kudos to you and listeners.
I just, you know, that is not a negotiation point, but I think that's an important life point just to absorb and appreciate.
Yes, you know, and I think it has an element of negotiation here also because I grew up in a one room house in Kolkata, the present name.
Normally it was called Galkata.
And if you have heard about Mother Teresa, She did a lot of great work, you know, in the city.
So I grew up in the outskirts in just literally, you know, a one room house, like two and a half meter by two and a half meter.
My father, you know, used to drive a taxi, a cab in Calcutta to fetch a living.
And the reason he started driving cab because he was an illiterate person.
He did not have any choice.
So me, my parents and my sister, you know, we were growing up, we had a lot of financial hardships.
And I was a chubby boy growing up.
So it went against me.
I became the target of being left and east around.
And my biggest challenge has been that I'm a mixed child.
My dad you know, is very fair in complexion.
He's Northern Indian, he's a Sikh by religion.
My mom she's Hindu, she's Bengali.
She's from the Eastern part of India, very dark in complexion.
So I grew up with the understanding that there's something wrong with me as a human being.
That I'm not pure enough.
And all these voices which was given to me over a period of 12 -13 years it became my voice and when I was 16 years old I was planning to kill myself.
I was suicidal but then my world opened up to personal development thanks to a company called Amway.
Amway was launching in India network marketing and from there I kept reading books and you know I realized that I can negotiate in my way to have a better life if I work on my communication skills, if I work on my personality and if I can develop these skills.
And training and workshops helped me to become who I am.
So I'm a big fan of training, I'm a big fan of being in workshops, I'm a big fan of personal development because from where I was, shy, introvert, timid, not seen, not known to where I am has been that entire journey of negotiating my way through learning and becoming you know the person I am.
So I think negotiation has been a, you know, a big element.
I think anybody can negotiate their way to reach where they want to reach if they're willing to learn and grow.
Oh my goodness, that is powerful!
I have chills, literally, chills, and I think what's great about this is that it gives us an opportunity to talk about the internal negotiations and the external negotiations, because people might look at you and they say, okay, he's a confident speaker, All right, yes, he he can motivate hundreds and thousands of people on stage and maybe I don't have that in me And then also they don't oftentimes people don't recognize the business savvy and negotiations that are required to get you to that stage But even before we get to all of those things that she ation skill sets and frameworks and things
like that I'd like to explore that internal transition and transformation that you've made from somebody who was shy and suicidal to somebody who now is confident and who can command a room and negotiate these deals.
What was it inside of you that changed that allowed you to live this type of life?
I think Kwame, you touched upon a very beautiful part while you were sharing to understand the inner world.
I think we are always in the mood of negotiations.
We are always telling ourselves a story.
We are not talking or communicating to anybody else externally.
We are always communicating to ourselves.
And I think if we can negotiate in our own inner world that we are stronger, we are powerful, we are God, you know, we have that much of power to become God.
And the more we aligned to the universal forces, the more we aligned to Jesus, Allah, Vigru, Buddha, you know, whatever we believe in that source.
I think the more you know, that power gets channelized inside us.
So yeah, you know, I had to work on my inner voices because coming from a one room house with parents who can't read and write and being discriminated, you know, for sin color, for being overweight, for being the way I was, it needed a lot of confidence building, letting go of those disbelieving myself and working on them, you know.
And it was not like just, you know, overnight work.
It was like constant years of journey to be, you know, where I have come now.
And sometimes I really wish that if I can unplug a piece from my brain, because I can feel and sense it.
Even my school and college friends are still figuring out how did I become who I am, because they even did not know that I existed in a way.
Because if there was a function, it was a stage appearance, I would kind of dodge and not show up.
So they're now thinking, how did this guy went on to become who he is today.
So they're still figuring it out.
But I think I'm an entire product of training and workshops and as you said you know working on that inner voice and when my inner voice shifted inside me i think you know what the reflection of me doing what i do now for the last few years i started happening you know for the outside world but i think those at least three to four years of a lot of inner work happening inside me i was just showing up for different training different workshop and even people at times said you know like i mean you do so many trainings you know do you really have to go through all that and they didn't realize no they
couldn't comprehend and what it is like not to have English as your first language.
Maybe you can relate to some of that because of our background.
What is like to come from a very humble background where most decisions are made by others who have the money for you.
So yeah, it is like a different, low disbelief world you live in.
And then from there to get out of it, it requires a lot of work inside you.
So I did that work of inner voice.
And after a couple of years, my confidence started growing.
And in the audience, I started growing from 10 to 20, 200, you know, 2000.
And I think, you know what, then I came to this place where I feel, maybe I was stupid thinking the way I was thinking about myself, because I am amazing.
Like anybody else is, you know, I think that's the best thing happened for me.
Just quickly, I want to add, you know, that doing some trainings with Tony and other mentors, I fell in love, you know, for the person I am.
And the day I fell in love with the person I am, I think magic started unfolding in on my journey and my negotiations became powerful.
My communication became powerful.
My deal -making became powerful, and abundance started happening, money, commission, you name it.
It was all flowing in my life.
Oh my gosh. There's so much here to explore because some of the key takeaways I wanna really drive home is that this doesn't happen by accident.
You didn't wake up one morning with glowing light all around you with all of this confidence.
No, it just took work.
And so you said three to four years of doing these trainings.
And it really sounds like you've reprogrammed your mind to see yourself and the world differently.
And then once you were able to really embody that and believe that, then it helped you to deliver that on grander stages.
And so what you're seeing is that there were baby steps.
You talked about going from 10 people to 100 people to 1000 people, it's gradual.
You don't just start right now.
And then at the top, right, and what I recognize when it comes to difficult conversations, when it comes to negotiation, a lot of times we are ultimately giving recipes to people who are afraid to get in the kitchen.
They can read a book, they can understand what needs to be done, what needs to be said.
But then when they go out in front of people, they don't understand the disconnect.
Why can't I perform, I know what I should be doing.
What's holding me back?
And so what you've done here with giving your outline for your life, you're showing, is that internal work that needs to happen first. And once you do that internal work, you can then have the confidence to have those tough conversations actions, and have more effectively.
Hello, my friends. Before we get back to today's episode, I want to ask you a question.
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Yes, I think you add up on a very powerful point here is that people believe that knowledge is power.
Actually it is not.
It is a potential power.
It will only give you power when you are willing to experience it.
So some say that applied knowledge is power.
I say that experiential knowledge is power.
And when you start experiencing it, it's not going to give you the same results that somebody else is getting it.
You will have your hiccups.
You know, you will have your moment of doubt.
But your job or responsibility or your hunger is to just keep moving on, you know, on that journey even if it's not making sense.
If you stick to the path longer than anybody else, you know expects you to stick to that path I think a day will come when people will start, you know clapping for you so your critics will become your fan provided you're willing to show up and work in on your craft pretty much every single day.
And that's where the magic is.
I love this. I love this.
This is such a strong way to start.
Okay. This is fantastic because again I think sometimes we go too quickly to the tools, to the strategies, to the techniques But we don't lay that foundation and you my friend have done an exceptional job of laying this foundation And now let's transition to the the business of public speaking.
I am assuming The majority of the people who are not who are listening to the podcast are not public speaking of speakers But they might be aspiring public speakers But we're all negotiators and deal -makers in our own way and I want us to first start to outline and what the business of public speaking really looks like for those who don't know what it looks like.
And then we can get into the difficult conversations and negotiations that really can take you to the next level in that field.
So can you just give us an overview of what it's like to be a professional public speaker?
Yeah, absolutely. Just quickly I wanna add that those of you who are listening, public speaking is highly recommended as a skill to pick up.
It's not a talent and we already have the talent, And if you have a vocal code you already have an existing talent which you require.
You just need to channelize that voice in such a way that you make an impact when you speak.
So coming back, Warren Buffett, you know highly recommends that you, one must learn public speaking because it's a skill which will give you dividends for your entire lifetime.
You could be in your 70's and doing a training and getting paid for it.
So that's something that I want to add.
And it's a high -income generating skill and it gives you immense leverage.
So if you do let's say one hour of speaking with 100 people, that is not one hour of work.
It is 100 hour of work.
You did it just one hour because you have the leverage to go something called one to many because of the way you can communicate in front of people.
Now coming to the how business of public speaking, there are a couple of options one can go into.
There is something called Keynote, which is quite popular.
You've become expert of a great topic let's say and invite you for an hour or two hours or 45 minutes and you do a keynote you can get paid anything from let's say two thousand dollars all the way to $20, $25, $30 ,000.
What I do you know is specifically is called platform closing which means you know you do your own workshops training you bring in people something which Tony Robbins does something like you know which Russell Branson does even you know top speakers As you know, most of them are Dan Lok, Grant Gaughan, they are into platform closing.
And when you understand the world of human being in terms of the limitations they carry and how you can transform as to whatever the lowest it is or whatever that disbelief is, to the world of confidence or high state or the believe in themselves, that's where the people are willing to invest in your trainings in your program and in your workshop.
So coming back, how is a journey?
And very quickly, I learned for three, four years, as I was mentioning, then for two years I volunteered my time energy where I did not get paid to be there, but I was just surrounding myself with those speakers, those kinds of companies, those kinds of environment.
And the more I spent my time, two years being around that space, I started getting opportunities.
Somebody said, okay, last minute, some speaker dropped out, can you become a host?
We're doing an event, it's just a five minute slot.
you would get in between the speakers, it didn't matter.
It all mattered that I was clocking my stage time.
And on at least three occasions minimum, I can remember when something happened, the last minute change was there, some speaker couldn't make up because of some immigration challenge, some flight delays, something.
And they said, you know what we have seen you before.
Why don't you get up and do this because we have a situation.
It may not be the best workshop I did, but it just got me started.
So, coming back, the how is getting more deeper into your topic and finding those, you know, avenues and opportunities to go and speak, like, even TEDx can apply.
A lot of people don't think about it.
They're looking for speakers.
They're looking for ideas, you know, to be shared and just going to one, TEDx can open up so many opportunities for you.
Like, you know, Simon Snake, sorry, the pronunciation may not be the best. Became Simon because of TEDx, you know.
So, there is so much you can create and do with public speaking.
Absolutely, and there's so many things that I want to explore with what you just said, because you are dropping breadcrumbs of brilliance, and I want to make sure that the listeners got it, because, first of all, we recognize that, again, you don't just start off at the top.
It is very unglamorous to start a public speaking career for most people.
You have to do a lot of free engagements to build up your credibility, to build up your reputation and for you yourself to learn and develop your skills.
And you're, as you were telling your story about how you were positioned close to some of these top speakers, I wanna highlight some negotiation brilliance here.
Because what you did is that even though money was not being transferred into your hands at that time, knowledge was being transferred and that is valuable, relationships were being transferred, that is valuable and then you put yourself in a position where if opportunities were to come, you were right there to have them.
And so a lot of times when we think about negotiation, We limit our perspective on what is a negotiable item.
We just think about money, and that's where the negotiation comes into play.
We think we just put these two things together where when money is not on the table or not an option, we don't even think about how we can utilize our negotiation skills to still advance our position.
And so, as you were getting closer to these big name speakers and putting yourself closer to these opportunities, what were those conversations, which are negotiations, what were those conversations like that allowed you to get so close?
I think you added very beautifully, and it is close to what I thought about is that I learned something and it made a lot of sense to me that everything is negotiable in life.
Now, at times you may not be able to bring the price down, we get it, right.
But what can you get as an add -on?
And that has been one of my in -built qualities, which obviously my wife also likes.
and she asked me to come in and kind of get involved.
So if I can't get, let's say the flight price to come down from what are we?
A thousand pounds to let's say 900, I make sure that I can get something as an add -on.
It could even a small little gift, which could be like 20, 30 pounds.
That's what I love about this whole understanding that everything is in negotiable.
Now, as you were asking me about this aspect of negotiating when it comes to public speaking and stage time and you were sharing something very strong triggered inside me.
I was doing Tony Robbins UPW previews like a teaser for three hours.
We do it with 150, 200 people sometimes 100, maybe sometimes 250.
And I used to go to different places like I have been to Manchester, I have been to Leeds, I have been to Dublin I have been to Romania, Sweden, Germany quite a few countries all over Europe doing these teasers for Tony and filling up the room for him.
So when I was speaking, I was working for this company on the phone where I had a target to dial and get the numbers and on the side, I was doing something called speaking for them, the slots which other speakers may not take up because the numbers are a bit low or it's too far away or maybe it's too short notice, I would go and speak.
And you'll be surprised, I would share it, I would share the figure just because people are listening right now.
I would get a daily wage pay for doing a preview where somebody else was getting almost, let's say, 100 times enough.
They were making five figures commission, I was getting three figure, 100 pounds getting paid for the day.
And yes, it did feel bad in that moment because I did that for almost four years.
But whenever I raised this to the higher management, and the boss of the company would say to me that, Amandeep, you should pay me to put you on that stage because that stage cost me a minimum 10 ,000 pounds in marketing, manpower, venue cost, and your traveling and everything.
And she was right in her.
Actually, maybe I didn't like that, but the truth was every time I spoke, I just became better.
I spent so much time on stage that I was able to decode what it takes to be on stage and mesmerize and captivate the audience.
So, coming back to your negotiation, I had to negotiate that, you know, difficult feeling with my own self to say, you know what, either I can bring my ego into the picture or I can surrender and say, you know what, my passion is bigger than my ego and carry on.
And I did. And, you know, a time came after the four years when my income just skyrocketed.
And now, as I speak, we still make six figures by supporting Tony to come into UK and Europe.
And it doesn't take that much of effort.
It just takes maybe 20 % of my time.
And it still brings a lot of income for me and also a lot of branding association happens because I have association with Tony and his event.
So yeah, coming back, I think I have to negotiate with my own self to, as they say in our language, that sit that pain, and keep that ego inside me and go like, you know what, carry on because this is gonna bring results in the future.
Incredible. Because when you're having that conversation with yourself and recognizing that you have to sip that pain.
You're not saying to yourself, I'm going to sip this pain forever.
You're recognizing I'm sipping it for now because there's something bigger in the future.
So it's really important for everybody to understand you're still having these conversations within yourself and then determining what is the best long -term move for us because negotiation, it's like playing a game of relationship chess, career chess.
How can we advance our position?
And then sometimes we recognize as we don't have as much leverage as we would like to because when you're doing any type of negotiation you have to examine the BATNA, Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement.
And so you should never accept a deal that is lower than your BATNA because your BATNA is essentially your plan B.
And in your situation in the early stages of your career you recognize, hey, I want more.
I don't have the leverage, nor do I have a better BATNA.
Right now, this is my best option.
I'm still gonna have that negotiation.
I'm still gonna push for more and if I don't get it I'm gonna maintain my position.
And so this is again just a great analysis of how negotiation was injected into this stage of your career to attempt to put yourself in a better position.
And then you recognized by getting that information you said, oh, wait a second I actually am in a pretty good position.
Because again, we're not just negotiating for dollars and cents.
In this situation, you're negotiating to try to advance your position, but at the same time you are still negotiating for information that you utilize to put yourself in a better position as well?
Yes, I would completely agree, you know, that I was negotiating my positioning.
You know, to have my name alongside Tony, and at least speak to a few thousand people every year, was one of the biggest, you know, leverage I was getting.
And I was aware of it, maybe not completely to the level where I understand now, but I could see, you know, that if I keep doing this uh there's a massive result you know which is gonna happen and I also got business you know uh on the side.
People saw me, they approached me, things you know started rolling so it was not like you know that yeah this is what was happening and that's it but there were other things you know coming up with that kind of advantage you know added to your uh to your you know CV or your resume.
So yeah you know I mean I think you know I'm very glad and blessed that I did it otherwise maybe you know I won't be here in this in this program with you.
Absolutely oh this is powerful, This is powerful and what we're recognizing too is that at that stage let's go back the 10, 15 years at that point.
If we didn't get the outcome that we wanted in that negotiation, we can't blame you for not using the right negotiation technique or having the right negotiation skills.
It wasn't a matter of skills.
It was just a matter of not having the leverage.
And then since you negotiated to improve your position continuously throughout your career, Now you have the leverage that allows you to secure more revenue and resources through the work that you do.
And so now let's fast forward to where we are now and let's talk about some of those negotiations that you have with your now clients, your clients of today.
What types of items and topics are you negotiating when you are talking about potentially getting an opportunity to be on stage?
So, to give you one Let's say, you know, when we go for a corporate event, right, we have a certain fee we want to get from the client.
So we obviously send them the proposal, right?
Coming back, you know, they maybe send back to us saying, you know, let's say as a ball bar figure, you know, like, let's say 10 ,000 pounds is a bit high, you know, can you just do something about it?
So our way of negotiating is that, you know, okay, we are planning to let's say do an entire two -days workshop with your hundred, you know, employees.
So, if you want, we can actually take out the firework in the evening.
How about if we cut down another activity we have after lunch on second day, will that work in your case?
And then that way we can bring the price down.
And for most smart people, they understand that.
If you want that entire value to be given with the team coming and supporting you, so then this is the kind of fee we go with.
If not, then we give them that understanding as to why we are coming up with that fee.
Either we can plug the piece out and come to the price which you want.
Again, I think it is more about understanding the value system they have. So we are very much clear about the outcome they want from that training.
So that's one way of looking at it.
So this is like a corporate event.
Like I said we're doing an affiliation for some big names and because we have a database, they want to come and use our database.
So we agree on certain numbers let's say, like a percentage.
Let's say 20%. And we want a higher percent because we know that we can deliver more.
So what do we do? We also give ourselves a challenge.
We say, OK, 20%, we go as per you.
But what happens if we hit more than 100 tickets?
And then they go like, OK, so that means that's a revenue of, let's say, whatever, this figure.
So if you can do that, then we're going to increase the percentage to this.
And then we do another negotiation.
We say, OK, 100 is great.
From 100 to 150 is this.
What happens if we generate a million pound for you?
And then they go like, okay, if you can do that, then we're going to give you this much percentage.
So we create a challenge for ourselves.
And it's not that we always hit it, but on most cases, we have seen that we at least, across the first huddle in most cases.
Because we've done it long enough to understand that we can deliver more than what they think we can.
And it's all a challenge for us.
We get pushed in a very special way.
We move in a different way.
We create those resourceful options where we're able to surpass the target they thought we would cross.
So that's, I think, is a great way of negotiating where you say, okay, I will go with your plan, but what if I over -deliver?
What happens when I over -deliver?
I must be paid for that.
And that's, I think, has worked a lot in our case, in quite a few amazing scenarios.
We have blocked in a lot of revenue coming in.
Amazing. So many gems here.
It starts with understanding the value of the other side.
Because a lot of times people use the throwing spaghetti at the wall technique to see what sticks.
It's like, oh, here are a bunch of things I could potentially give to the other side and we just throw all of it and they're like, I never asked for any of those things.
This is not effective.
But what you're doing is you understand their value and then you're saying, oh, this is what is important to you.
Let me create some strategies or some offers that will make it more enticing.
and the example that you gave with the contingency, where you're saying, hey, if I perform at this level the revenue is this, if I perform at that level the revenue is this.
And that's an example of a great win -win, because now you are more incentivized to deliver at a higher level, and if you win, they win and vice versa.
This is great, and then going back to the first example that you gave. One thing I really wanna hammer home here, that you delivered so eloquently is this, you weren't saying, okay, here is my price, and they say, well, can you go lower?
And then you said, okay, I'll go lower.
You said, here's my price.
They said, can I go lower?
And you said, if you want me to go at a lower price, then it would mean that you're not getting the same that you would have been getting for the full price.
A lot of times, people just discount their products or services without getting anything in return or doing the same amount of work for a diminished price.
But you're saying, hey, no, I value my work.
The value of my work is what it is.
So, if you want a lower price, we can do that.
But there will be a consequence, you're not going to get the full amount.
Are you okay with that?
So you're still being flexible while respecting the value of the service you provide.
Yes, and you know, we use analogies to explain the situation and then there is one more option, you know, which I would like to mention.
I'm sure you would vouch for it, you know, with your depth of understanding and negotiation.
You know, at times, we tell them to commit more.
You know, we say okay, we can bring the price down.
to $8 ,000, a 20 % off, provided you give us two contracts.
You can take eight months, 10 months.
We know that you cannot deliver a training straight away, but you can keep it valid for 10 months or one year.
We'll come and deliver another program.
And you don't need to pay us upfront, but just commit to it for now.
So that's where somehow we have clocked in two trainings and three trainings in one go.
Because they say, you know what?
We are going to have the 20%.
We like the work of this person, we would like to bring them again for next year, let's say whatever they want to do.
And then coming back to the thing which I shared so proudly with you that we say, if we bypass the target, what do we get extra?
I learned by mistakes, you know.
I did a few contracts in the past, maybe seven years, six years back.
And when I sat back, and I did a comparison with some other association they had, they made more money compared to the results we had.
Like our results were very similar, Maybe slightly better in few cases.
But they took home 50 ,000 pounds extra and we took some amount which was not the same.
And I said, hang on, what's going on here?
Why are we losing? Because you know what, I think maybe we were a bit fearful to not come to that level where we could have and not negotiate that price which we could have if we went over our target.
And when I saw that, I said, you know what?
We need to do this.
And that's exactly what I've been doing for the last five years.
and in most cases, it works out in our favor.
On a very rare occasion, they have a certain limit, that they own buzz, doesn't matter how much you do.
But in most cases, they say, you know what, if you can do all of this, then that means a win -win.
We don't mind sharing more with you.
Amazing. And speaking as a fellow entrepreneur, I know some of the best lessons in business and negotiation come from taking a sip of pain, right?
You learn the hard way sometimes.
Yeah. And you feel very bad, you know, But then you're to be taking responsibility for that because you did not negotiate when the opportunity was there.
So yeah, you learn your hard way.
Absolutely, well, Amandeep, this has been exceptional my friend, thank you so much for joining us.
Before you go, can you let the listeners know again about the work that you do and how they can get in touch?
Sure, I just wanna say Kwame, you're doing a great job.
I know the amount of work, you know, goes behind the scene to show up, on that dotted line of the time, and make things happen.
There is so much of planning, which goes behind the scenes.
So those of you who are listening or maybe watching, I just wanna say know what?
Send your blessings, and a lot of love for Kwame.
Great job, my friend, well done.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Pleasure. If anybody listening, if you wanna improve your communication skills, if you wanna become more comfortable being on stage or boardroom meetings, or any kind of presentations you wanna do, you can find me on my website, you know, which is my entire name, Amandeep 10th .com.
So Amandeep first name, the surname is 10th, t -h -i -n -d dot com.
And from there, we can start the journey.
Amazing, Amandeep, thank you so much for joining us, and listeners, there will be links to everything he just described in the description.
Thanks again for coming.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Now, before you sign off, I have something to tell you that I've never told you before.
are. Just kidding. I've told you before, but you should listen to it again.
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I'll catch you later.
you
