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So in our last episode, we had Jamay and in our next episode we're going to have Gianna.
But both of those incredible professionals are the hosts of the Let's Talk Offline podcast, a new podcast from LinkedIn.
And as you know, we are part of the LinkedIn Podcast Network, the LinkedIn Podcast family, and we want to support the folks in the network.
And we know this is great content.
So make sure you check out this episode as a bonus episode.
And if you like it, check out their podcast.
Let's talk offline.
LinkedIn News. I'm sure a lot of people, A, don't negotiate because it's scary, or B, don't even know how to properly research what they should be negotiating.
So I mean, the fact that you backtrack and was like, hey, big head, can we actually put a little bit more money on the top?
The fact that you even did that was super, you know, ballsy.
It was so awkward. I was like, do I have to?
She's like do it. From LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcast, this is Let's Talk Offline, a show about what it takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your values, sanity, or sleep.
I'm Gianna Pradenti.
And I'm Jamay Jackson Gadsden.
You guys, can I be honest?
One of the scariest things to me about job offers is negotiating.
Honestly, where do I even start?
Can I negotiate more than just my salary?
Am I asking for too much?
Am I asking for too little?
Can I take time off from work?
There's just a lot of things that are running through my head and there's honestly too much to consider.
So true. And something I hear from my friends all the time is like, do I even have the right to negotiate?
And of course they do.
But knowing how to start, like you said, and building the confidence to actually make the ask when the time comes can be so difficult.
But don't worry, we're going to guide you on how to nail your first negotiation and everyone after that.
All right, so today we're talking all about negotiating, you know, getting that money.
And this is such an important topic because I remember when I was starting out, I wish I had somebody to talk to about negotiating.
I had literally no idea what I was doing.
And because of that, you really do lose that money.
Not even to mention the fact that negotiating is super scary.
Like literally when I negotiate anything, I want to throw up.
And we're going to sweat the sweaty armpits, maybe a little like, you know, TMI.
Yeah. Anyways, so today we're going to be talking to a negotiation expert, Maury de Harry Poore, she'll be joining us in a bit to share how to make sure you're advocating for your worth in that conversation, from getting into the right mindset all the way to actually making that ask.
I can't wait for us to talk to Maury.
But first, I want to talk to you, Gianna, tell us about the first time you ever negotiated.
And I already can tell by how red you are getting.
I want to know maybe some key takeaways and learnings, some mistakes made.
Great question. So yes, when I first negotiated, it was at LinkedIn or spoiler, failed to negotiate, I should say.
But I was a contractor and I went full time.
So I went through the recruitment process and had that conversation.
Just two disclaimers, which I know, like people don't like disclaimers.
But being a journalist in tech is pretty confusing.
I had no idea how much I could be making in the tech industry.
I knew around what I could be earning if I joined a traditional media company.
And I also was facing a lot of imposter syndrome.
Still do. But I was like, oh, my God, how am I landing a tech job as a new grad?
That's crazy. And I wanted to go full time so badly that I was willing to take basically whatever.
So that was one. And then two, coming from that contract, I didn't know how much that will look annually.
Guess what? I totally could have did a little girl math and figured that out, but I didn't.
So mistake number one is that I went in with no research whatsoever.
Yikes. Yeah. Big yikes.
And so I remember that conversation with a recruiter and I went in with like a very friendly vibe.
I was friendly with him, right?
Because I had worked here and he had my best interest at heart.
But the truth is recruiters work for employers.
So they're going to offer you whatever that salary range is for the role.
So I went in with that mindset and he asked me my salary expectations, the dreaded question.
And I was like, hmm, great question.
I don't really know, but for context, if it helps you, here's how much I'm earning hourly.
So helping him, hurting myself literally laid all my cards out on the table and he was like, okay, so annually it was probably like XYZ, like quick math.
I was like, whoa, crazy.
And then he shared the salary range for the role.
And I was like, that's great.
Great. That's it. So I went home, call my mom, I was like, mom, like it's all happening.
It's looking good. She's like, okay, what did they say about pay?
I told her the range.
She's like, well, what'd you say?
And I was like, oh, I just said that would be great.
She's like, Johnny, you didn't say like the higher end or anything.
I was like, no. So with guidance from my mom, I emailed and was like, hey, would be great if it could be on the higher end.
All in all, it ended up being on, you know, it was higher than I had anticipated the offer and I signed immediately, which is another mistake.
And I learned since then that some of my colleagues didn't negotiate, whether it came to like the stock award or whatever it was.
I just was ready to sign eagerly.
And the truth is I was coming in with internship experience at LinkedIn plus contract experience, and I didn't really account for that.
I mean, I'm sure the company did because I know they have my best interest because I had worked here, but I totally just yeah, I've loved that.
Yeah, no. I mean, honestly, your story probably resonates with a lot of people because I'm sure a lot of people a don't negotiate because it's scary or b don't even know how to properly research what they should be negotiating.
So, I mean, the fact that you backtrack and was like, hey, big head, can we actually put a little bit more money on the top?
The fact that you even did that was super, you know, ballsy.
It was so awkward. I'm sure it was funny.
I have to do it. OK, I can literally see Gianna's mother just being in the shadows.
My Italian mom. I love it.
But I honestly, again, I think that, you know, you've learned a lot.
And obviously, you know, I think mistakes are meant to be made so that you don't make them again.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mentioned the going contract a full time was kind of obscure.
I'm wondering for you when you like being an entrepreneur.
Yeah. How did you approach and how do you approach negotiating?
Because I'm sure that is even more, you know, obscure.
Yeah, it's really terrifying.
Again, like I said earlier, I literally want to throw up even after a decade plus of working in the creator economy entertainment industry.
I still get very scared.
But yeah, when I first graduated, I was working like very hourly gigs.
I was, I mean, bartending, waitressing.
I was transcribing like government docs for a while.
I was a celebrity assistant for a while.
Yeah, girl. We need to get into that.
Yeah, we can definitely do that over mimosas.
But like I was doing a lot of jobs where like there was a set rate set fee.
Even in acting. You go on set.
There is a set fee like for they say it's set or did you assume?
There was like there was no opportunity.
No one ever brought up, hey, this is like navigable.
Like this is a number like just one number that you have.
And like, that was it.
And it was interesting because I'll never forget.
I was freelancing for a job.
So it was like an hourly, right?
And then I got an opportunity to work in my, quote unquote, first tech job.
So I'm getting ready.
Like, I know that the gig is mine.
I'm like, I'm going to do it.
And all my friends were like, negotiate.
I don't care if you ask for five dollars.
You need to negotiate.
So what I did was I did my version of girl math.
I took out like how much I'm making hourly times it by the hours, times it by the weeks.
And I was like, OK, so this is what my salary looks like.
Then I was like, I'm going to add $10 ,000 more onto this.
I'm going to be living large.
I am Jermaine Jackson Jefferson.
I'm moving on up, baby.
Gianna, I got into the call because she called me and I'm like, OK, here we go.
Here we go. Here we go.
Throw it to me. Right.
I feel like I'm about to get drafted.
This is it. And she started talking about pay.
And I don't know what it was.
I think I was just so nervous that my mind just stopped working.
I said nothing, which actually was a blessing because I was about to be like, this is how much I want.
She instead said, well, we're thinking about blah, blah, blah.
Why was the minimum for that range?
$30 ,000 more than what I was about to ask for.
Oh, my God. I said, you know what?
There is a savior. Yeah.
There is something about that is happening.
I said, good God, thank you.
And so I was like, OK, and then, you know, now I'm trying to compose myself.
Yeah. And I'm like, I think your voice is like cracking.
I literally was like, I think we could do some I think this could work.
I was like, yeah, that's fine.
Child, she kept going.
She went on and talked about benefits.
So I didn't hear nothing that woman said.
At that point, I'm texting my mama.
I'm texting my man.
I'm like, it's lit in the city.
We about to be up. But this is why that story resonates.
I got into the job six months in.
I'm working with a coworker, you know, really cool.
Been there a couple of years longer.
We're talking. And this is back when talking about money was still very taboo.
Yeah. Hush, hush. And I don't know how it came out, but he put out how much he was making.
And he he was making twenty thousand dollars more than I was.
And in that moment, my heart sank because I said, you were so freaking giddy that you didn't even ask if there was more for you and you still left money out on the table.
That is so seared in my memory.
That any job I took after that, I negotiated.
In fact, it actually helped me because then as a creator, I started negotiating with brands all the time.
You hop in my DMS, you hop in my emails and you're like, can you do these deliverables for this?
Where's the money? And then after that, like where?
No, no, no, no, no, no.
First question, is this paid?
First question, is it paid?
Second of all, is it paid?
Well, you will always negotiate.
And I think one of the biggest things I will say, I have never lost a bag negotiating, period.
And that's the biggest fear.
You think that they're going to rescind the offer.
100 percent. If you're that girl, they're not going to take it away.
Yeah, unless you're asking some crazy astronomical number.
If you ask for one bajillion kajillion dollars on a thing that probably maxes out 100k.
Yeah, maybe so, because then they're like, this person might be a little off.
We don't need that.
But like, for real, for real, I have never lost an opportunity.
I have never lost a bag for simply asking for what I want.
And in fact, I have held myself up to the standard that if you can't meet me at least where I need to be, maybe this isn't a line.
I have walked away from brand deals and guess what?
Those brands circle the block years later.
And now all of a sudden that rate that you thought was too much, baby, I'm asked some tax on it.
Yeah, I'm at a New York tax.
It gave interest three times.
So I'm going to add some extra tax up on it.
And then the Jamaite tax, by the way, inflation is higher now.
So the rate has gone up.
OK. Seriously, yesterday's price is not today's price.
And I say that because I think if we take the ick out of negotiating you got to realize you are that person.
You got to realize you got to bring those receipts.
But you also got to realize that like you are the prize.
Yeah, you are the prize.
You're like firing me up.
I'm like ready to negotiate for life.
No, seriously, I negotiate everything.
And the best practice that I have done is start with the small stuff.
I negotiate with my husband what we're going to eat tonight.
So true. Because you know what it is?
It's not even just the money.
I think that people are scared to negotiate because sometimes I think subconsciously you don't think you deserve what you're about to ask for.
So now if babe wants Italian, I want Chinese.
I'm going to negotiate.
Well, maybe if we get Chinese, I'll do the dishes.
Or we do this. And it's so as silly as that sounds, you being able to say, this is wonderful, but also blank gets you into the practice.
And then somehow it starts to trickle into all of these other aspects of your life.
And you know what I love about that is it's a compromise where I feel like a lot of people approach negotiations feeling like it's either they win or I win.
It's not a win -lose situation.
It really is a win -win situation.
And it's all about finding that compromise.
Yeah. And the last thing I'll say is that sometimes I think we like, oh, my gosh, I'm just so happy about the name.
I'm so happy about the job, baby.
This is an exchange of goods and services.
Like, let's keep it a stack.
Like, you can love your job and I want you to find fulfillment in it.
But also remember, you are providing something to them.
They have something to lose.
So go up in there, put your big girl, big boy panties on.
OK, practice in the mirror, you know, say Candyman three times, whatever you got to do to get in the mode.
Because baby, when it's time to go, it's time to go.
Oh, I'm riled up. What are we going to negotiate?
She said. After the break, we're talking with negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour, who is going to share why we all, yes, including you, have the power to negotiate.
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So Gianna and I have been talking all about negotiating, but the reality is I know a lot of you guys have questions.
Thankfully, we have an expert today who is going to help us all out in the world of negotiating.
Gianna, you want to introduce our special guest?
Yes, I'm so excited.
Maury Tahiripour is joining us now.
She is a negotiation expert who works with students.
She teaches negotiation and dispute resolution at UPens Wharton School.
She's also the author of Bring Yourself, How to Harness the Power of Connection to Negotiate Fearlessly.
Maury, thanks so much for joining us.
So excited to be here.
Thank you. Yeah. We're so excited for the convo.
And we're going to kick it off with our segment called Dear Work Bestie, which is where we address listener questions.
And one we got this week is from Kristin in California.
Let's take a listen.
I just graduated college and I'm about to start looking for my first full time job.
I've done some internships, but I feel like I don't have the right to negotiate because this is kind of my first real job.
Where would I even start?
What should I be thinking about before talking to my future manager?
So Maury, I'll kick us off because I think we all have been in Kristin's spot before.
I think when she said the whole I don't have the right to negotiate that my eye twitched a little bit because I was like, negotiate.
So let's ask a hesitation around negotiating is usually understanding what's even on the table to begin with.
What's your advice for people like Kristin who are unsure what to even ask for in the first place?
Well, part of negotiations is just having a conversation, right?
And everybody has the right to have a conversation.
So a lot of people think just because it's a negotiations, that means you have to jump into this sort of transactional back and forth.
That's not it at all.
If you start thinking my negotiations is just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit.
It doesn't have to be a win -lose thing.
It doesn't have to be a transaction in my mind.
I think about it as problem solving.
I think about it as two people getting to know one another.
And that really sort of takes away some of that tension.
The other is that, you know, I heard I haven't really had a job.
I haven't. This is really the first sort of job that I'm going to have.
That's not true at all.
I think especially a lot of college students have so much experience doing so many different things, whether they're in clubs, whether they have part -time jobs, whether they've had experience before even going into college.
If they sit down and create sort of an inventory of all the different experiences, leadership type experiences that they've had, go back and reorient yourself, right?
And then think about the negotiations as an opportunity to tell your story.
I definitely can relate to Kristin because when I got my first job offer, I was like, just, I'm so grateful to have this.
I'm not going to try to rock the boat in any way.
And a lot of younger people do fear losing their offer if they negotiate.
But I'm wondering, how do you get into the right mindset?
So it's not who am I to negotiate, but this idea that I do have the right.
When we don't feel confident, we show that we're not confident.
And I think that's a really big deal.
So I think if you have mentors, if you have people that you can rehearse in front of, it's having somebody there that maybe you feel comfortable with that's been supporting you and having them just there.
It's like they walk right into the interview with you.
But just even sort of having somebody that's sort of helping you overcome some of those, like the mind games that we play with ourselves.
Right? So like, never be shy about saying, I'm struggling with telling my own narrative.
Can you help me? That loved one, the people you surround yourself with, their job at that point is like to hold up the mirror to you and to look at yourself and know that you deserve to be there, that you've accomplished so much in your life to find a way to talk about it with both humility and confidence.
Right. And really being able to understand that you absolutely have a place at that table.
You're there for a reason.
They didn't just randomly select somebody.
You're already there.
So how are you going to sell yourself now?
Maury, I love all of that.
And you're absolutely right.
You are there for a reason.
But on the research aspect, what should people like Kristin be doing before they even enter the conversation?
So prepare, prepare, prepare above all.
There's no excuses anymore not to know certain pieces of information.
I mean, you can Google anything these days and you will get, you know, more information than you probably even want to get at this point.
So learn about the company.
Try to figure out who you're supposed to be interviewing with.
Learn more about them.
Learn about the position, right?
And then maybe even that position in other sort of competing companies in the same industry, just so that you can maybe understand better about sort of salary expectations, what the expectations are of that role.
Any type of sort of gaps in knowledge that you actually have at that point as well.
Take note of that because what you also want to do is come up with a list of questions that you want to ask once you're in that interview, right?
At some point they're going to say, do you have any questions for me?
And you really at that point don't say, Nope.
No, that was it. Right.
This is your opportunity to showcase not only what you don't know, but how you want to grow in that role that you have, that you're curious, that you're intellectually curious, that you want to know more about it.
And by the way, I'm so prepared that I know the exactly types of things that I still want to learn about this company that I didn't know already.
And honestly, I love that you started this whole thing off by saying that this is just a conversation guys.
Like seriously, you can go in there thinking I'm an adult, you're an adult, we are two adults having this conversation.
And it helps take some of that fear and honestly, some of the pressure off.
But Maury, like you said, I love that research, understanding your values, understanding where you are and where you want to go, and knowing that you have that power is really where we all should be thinking about.
Like these are great takeaways.
So Maury, while we've got you here, I think we should put some of these great tips into practice.
So we're going to read a couple of different negotiation scenarios.
We want you to let us know what you think about how the person presented in those situations responded.
Did they do well? Did they not?
What could they improve on?
So I'll start us off.
So situation number one is responding to what are your salary expectations?
Oh my God, my armpits are sweaty already.
Okay, here we go. I'm a recent grad and in the process of applying for jobs in marketing, I have a couple of internships under my belt and I've held leadership roles in various college organizations related to my field of interest.
I get an interview for an entry level job offering a salary range of 50 to $60 ,000 based on experience.
The company offers health benefits and a decent PTO.
The interview goes well, then the manager asks me, so what are your salary expectations?
That's my manager voice.
What are your salary expectations?
And I answer, well, I understand this is my first job out of college.
So I might not have as much experience as other candidates you're considering.
With that in mind, I would like my starting salary to be in the 50 to $55 ,000 range.
Maury Woof. Okay, what did this person do well and what do you think they can improve?
Improve everything.
Um, so the first is, I know that's so terrible.
The part that got me was that I may not be as experienced as everybody else that you're interviewing.
First of all, if you're not, they already know that, right?
So like, you don't have to be like, hi, I'm not as good as everybody else.
No. Um, I think if you are going to say that and say like professional experience, maybe, or, you know, experience in this particular position that you're getting, you can say that, but immediately it has to be followed up with.
But I've been in leadership roles and that I've had this type of experience with transferable skills and X, Y and Z.
Um, so you can't just put that out there and let it sort of drop like a lead balloon.
Right? You have to have a narrative that, you know, both says I recognize that X, but let me create a through line so you can understand why I'm as good as those other candidates potentially, if not maybe have more interesting experience.
Because you need that in order to say, I want a higher salary than the bare minimum salary, right?
You sort of have to create sort of that first narrative for it and then follow it up.
The other thing is that when you talk about ranges like 50 to 55, people only hear one number, right?
That's the thing about a range.
They're going to hear the number that is most beneficial to them.
So understand that.
So if it is a trick that you want to use, always sort of start with even that higher, higher range so that the one, the lowest number is the one that's on the upper end of that, you know, so I would say something like 58 to 55, let's say 55 is where you want to land.
But the minute you say 55 or 50 to 55, that recruiters going to hear one number and that was 50.
So really sort of the psychology of ranges of really interesting play in a way that is most beneficial to you.
All right, Maury, I got situation number two for you, which is negotiating when you're making a career pivot.
I've been working in finance for a few years now and I'm ready to look for a new job.
I'm looking for mid level positions, ideally opportunities that allow room for growth and maybe even a chance to move up within the company.
I get a job offer from a company that I've always admired and I've wanted to work with for a long time.
Unfortunately, after some back and forth, they're only willing to offer me the lower end of the position salary range.
The salary is lower than what I was hoping for, but I'm willing to accept the offer because I really want to work at this company.
I tell them before I consider accepting this offer, I want to make sure that there will be opportunities to grow in this position, whether that be salary bumps or chances to move up in the company.
Maybe in six months, can we review my performance and see if it warrants a pay increase?
What do you think? That's a better scenario.
Um, didn't give you heart palpitations.
No, not as much. I was, I was, I even found myself smiling at one point.
Um, I would say a couple of things.
Um, unless you've gone through several rounds and they're like, we just can't go any higher than this.
Um, if that is really all they can do, then I really love this notion of, okay.
And I should say that's actually for all of these interviews, especially if you're going to get into sort of negotiating any part of the compensation package.
Telling the company you really want to be there is great, right?
Because you'd never want, you know, a lot of my students say, well, I'm waiting for job offers from a couple of these companies.
Should I tell them?
And I said, no, don't put companies up against each other, right?
You'd ever want anyone to feel like they're your second or third option, right?
So telling them you want to be there, telling them this is the company where you want to be, um, is, is point one, right?
That was really good.
Um, and the other thing is that this notion of, okay, I understand that you all can't do any more right now.
And I'm willing to work with you because this is where I want to be.
However, can we come up with a creative way that maybe we can revisit the salary, um, in six months?
Uh, please evaluate me.
Right. The other thing I heard from that was please evaluate me because I know I'm going to be so successful in this role.
Right. So like, those are all the things that I was hearing through the messaging of that, right?
Because it's saying, one, you're confident.
That you're going to perform to that.
Yeah. This salary is actually low, but I'm giving something.
So what are you giving to me in return?
Right? Never give up something without expecting something returned for it.
And the third thing is that, look, just because you're saying no now, it doesn't mean that has to be no forever.
Um, I want to know if we can come back to this.
I'd love to have this conversation again, because then you should also be telling yourself, okay, what if it's six months?
It turns out to be a year.
And what if a year turns out to be 18 months and they still haven't done something.
Right. So, um, I really actually liked that scenario.
A lot of things about it.
You were also really certain that this is the company you want to be at.
And I think that that will make for better engagement on your part as well.
Yes. I love what you just said.
No, doesn't mean no forever.
Maybe just not right now.
Um, so I know I learned a lot from this conversation, Maury.
I know Jume did as well.
And we hope everybody listening takes away, um, some actionable advice.
So thank you so much for joining us, Maury.
It was really great talking with you.
Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much fun.
All right. I need to go get more coffee.
You should too. And we'll be right back after the break.
Yo, gee. Maury was awesome.
Love her. I loved her.
I learned so much, especially in the role play section.
I feel like I'm empowered to do the things.
We're ready to go. Um, one of the things that I really, really took away from that interview was just how big of a role imposter syndrome plays into all of this.
Yeah. And while you got to dead that from the jump, like you got to leave it at the door, right, because it will keep you from negotiating.
It will keep you from asking your worth.
What did you take away from the interview?
I loved her emphasis on preparation, especially coming from my place where I didn't prepare whatsoever for my first negotiation.
And I think what was so important in, in that piece is this idea of like going in with your numbers, knowing what you're worth.
So understanding in this industry, in this job where I'm living, how much can I potentially earn in this role?
And you do that by searching online, speaking to people in that desired industry so that you go in with numbers, because you can't debate the facts.
Like the thing is, you can't, you can't debate that.
And I think too, it also helps you take away some of the emotion that we, you know, naturally feel when it comes to negotiating.
So it really is you coming in, being like, here's what the numbers are showing me.
Really come in prepared with what you want out of this negotiation and understand everything that's possible to you.
And at the end of the day, like you'll listen to this episode and I hope you take away that one, you have the right to negotiate and your offer's not at risk, but still it's going to be nerve -racking.
Like there's no perfect way to completely get rid of those nerves.
So you really just have to start doing it and celebrate the small wins, which is probably just asking, right?
Like maybe you don't land the high salary, but you get something else.
And just the fact that you made the ask is a win.
So celebrate that. And each time you do it, you'll only get more and more comfortable.
Heck yeah. Okay. So Gianna, you know, I love to play games over here.
I'm never serious. So I want to talk about our next segment, which is called show the receipts.
Maybe I love receipts all day.
Call me a Texan. I say my receipts.
Are so organized. I love this.
We're going to be discussing some pretty common myths about young people at work and why they're wrong or not.
You want to know this week's hot tape?
Give it to me. So I was reading this article on fortune that came out this year and it was discussing how Gen Z is totally over having their work ethic questioned.
It brought up Gianna's eyes are watering, like it literally brought up conversations around Gen Z.
Are you guys lazy? Are you guys like tapped in at work?
Like what is going on?
Gianna, what do you think about this?
Is Gen Z lazy at work?
Jamee, thank you so much for asking.
This is the one that really gets my blood boiling because I think it's such a generalization.
No, I do not think Gen Z is lazy at work.
I think when we saw this narrative begin to pick up, it was around the quiet quitting trend, which is this idea that people want to do the bare minimum at work.
And a lot of the articles were saying, you know, Gen Z wants to clock out at five.
Which like because we have to go to other jobs.
Like that is the reality of it, right.
Whether you have your own company, whether you have a part time gig after work.
Gen Z is known to be working multiple jobs.
So I think I'm also like how the heck do we get to the point where like leaving at five is considered lazy?
Like, come on, I'm scared for our future.
Transparently, if I'm done at five, I'm leaving.
Like I'm going to head home, right?
I think two is we want to be paid for the work that we are asked to do.
So that is just I'll leave it there.
Like we want to be paid.
The other part of it, too, though, I will say, like, what is lazy?
Right. Is it because we want to clock out at five?
Is it on the job like during the day?
Like, you know, why are we being painted that way?
And I do think, listen, like, give us some space to learn and grow.
A lot of us are early in our careers.
We're learning how to experience corporate life for the first time.
And maybe some of us will need, you know, extra support.
Yeah. I think that's on us to also know when to ask.
Get something I've had to learn when to raise my hand and say, like, I actually might need a little bit help on this rather than just like sitting there being like, I don't even know what to do.
So I think that's part of it, too.
Right. Like maybe we just need a little bit extra support and like need those mentors, need that management early on.
But the headline, I would say, yes, we're over here being questioned on our work ethic and now I do not think Gen Z is lazy.
Yeah, I feel like I love what you said, especially around, like, the fact that a lot of people have a lot of jobs because for the first like almost decade of my career, I had multiple jobs.
So I would get up. I would clock into my nine to five.
I would clock out by a certain time because I knew that I had to go in the back when I was like doing waitressing or bartending and then hit the floor.
And then I was coming home and then still working on my brand.
Or even when I was just freelancing, I got to go home.
I got to make deadline.
Right. And so I have always known that there is a hard start and a hard stop to my day.
And I think that when jobs are seeing that you don't want to do that, but you still are getting the work done, they're just a little like, why are you not fully invested one thousand percent in here?
But in the reality is like you have other things to do.
Respectfully. I think Gen Z sets really strong boundaries and it maybe triggers other people who don't have boundary setting skills.
Them, I think, OK, well, why do I have a problem with this?
Yeah, but baby girl, like no one's telling you to clock back in at eight p .m.
to answer emails like and if you are, then you really I mean, I do too.
But that's because I'm already up at night.
But like if you if you are finding that you are overextending yourself, those are conversations that you need to have either with your manager or when you are even looking at like, you know, your corporate wish list, like asking those things to the employer, like what do the hours look like?
Do you allow for flexible working hours?
Can I clock out to go pick up my kid or to go to the store or whatever?
Like, I mean, don't maybe don't tell them if you're going to go to like the store.
But like there are things that you can ask right.
So that you can kind of plan your day out.
I think a couple of videos that just happen to be Gen Zers have gone viral.
And people are trying to make reductions about the entire workforce.
They did the same thing with the millennials, I .E.
me. So I just think that every generation is going to.
We're going to say the same thing about Jan Alpha in a few years.
There's going to be something new.
It's whoever is in the spotlight.
Literally. So you just got to do you and just keep doing it.
I will try. All of us will try.
Well, guys, that was a really awesome episode.
If I do say so myself, thank you so much, Maury, for joining us.
Remember, we also have a newsletter.
It's called Let's Talk Offline, where we talk even more about the topics we discuss on the pod.
The link to the newsletter will be in the show description and it's also my LinkedIn bio.
Oh, yes. Also, I got to give a quick shout out to Kristen.
Thank you so much, Kristen, for your question this week.
Gianna and I loved answering it, but doesn't just have to be Kristen.
You guys can also send us your questions.
Information on how to do that is also in that show description.
And if you're not already, make sure you guys are following the show and leave us a rating review while you're at it.
OK, one last thing.
Remember, we have always got your back.
So if something comes up in the meantime, Let's Talk Offline.
I'm Gianna Prenti. And I'm Jamee Jackson Gadsden.
Stay thriving. Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and I Heart Podcast.
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Our producer is Sabrina Feng.
The show is edited by Savannah Wright.
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