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Hello, welcome to Takeaway Chinese.
I'm Niu Honglin with Steve Hatherly in the studio.
Hello, everyone.
Hello, Steve.
Hello, how are you doing this time?
Very, very happy to do the show because we're doing something very special today.
Tell us.
It's the year of the horse and we are not only talking about fun stories and fun idioms of horses.
We are actually playing you well, very highly produced, very well made stories that are made by our very talented colleagues, and they play the story you know as a voice actor and we'll be able to Listen to and enjoy the story from a deeper level.
And these are, you know, carefully chosen stories.
Those are stories that are aired in another podcast made by our colleagues, the Chinese Folktale Podcast, which is a really good one.
I recommend you to take a listen.
But, more importantly, we'll be able to learn some fun Chinese idioms related to the animal of the year, the year of the horse.
Yeah, I feel like living in China, I'm constantly looking into the future and looking into the past.
Yes, that's the thing that you can do.
Yeah, so today we'll be obviously looking into the past.
These stories are really fun to listen to because it gives you an idea of well, first of all, you get to learn about the stories that all Chinese people tend to know about, right?
And learn about when they're a kid.
But also occasionally, it'll give you a little insight into maybe some expressions, modern day expressions that came from that time, or something along those lines.
For those who are learning Chinese.
One challenge they meet when they become relatively medium or sophisticated Chinese learner, rather than new beginners, is that they started to realize how many allusions there are in Chinese language.
What do you mean?
Allusions, the kind of idioms, for example.
The idiom only has four characters, yet the whole, the connotation behind the background story and the kind of dynasty, the kind of negative or positive feeling it represents, it holds, is enormous.
Yeah, it's hard to remember and learn about all of them, but As Chinese people, we learn it one by one as well.
And I think that's totally fair because that's kind of like next level language learning.
I think what you're getting at is that an expression or an idiom has a group of words.
But looking at those words, reading those words, saying those words. doesn't carry the full story.
So you got to hear the story, you got to learn the story, and then you know exactly how to use that idiom.
Yes, and that is why we want to take the chance to give you the full idea of the story, the full story that is presented in almost an audio drama form.
So let's enjoy the first story.
The first story is Bo Le Xiang Ma.
Bo Le discerns a noble steed.
Imagine yourself as a winged steed that can run faster than the wind.
But your daily job is nothing other than pulling a millstone in endless circles.
You're tied up on a farm?
Who would know your true talent?
What a frustrating life that would be.
More than 2,000 years ago, there was just such an underappreciated horse.
It might have looked skinny, didn't eat much, but it could run a thousand li a day without tiring.
That, by the way, is about 500 kilometers.
Okay, maybe not literally, but the point is...
The horse was born a genius, as far as horse talent went.
But no one knew.
Except this man named Sun Yang, who possessed an extraordinary talent for judging the quality of horses.
In Chinese mythology, the immortal believed to govern the heavenly steeds was named Bo Le.
Out of deep respect for Sun Yang's skills, people began calling him by that celestial name, Bo Le.
Legend has it, the king tasked Bo Le with the mission, find a legendary a thousand li steed.
Bo Le searched all over the kingdom for a long time, but the perfect horse was nowhere to be found.
One day, Bo Le saw a sweating horse struggling up a steep hill pulling a heavy load.
As bony as it was, The moment he took a closer look, he knew.
This was no ordinary horse, but a Qianli Ma, a thousand-mile horse.
Bo Le jumped off his cart and, overwhelmed with emotions, rapped at the saddle and cried.
The horse, sensing a kindred spirit, lowered its head and snorted, and then lifted it and neighed loudly, not in pain but in recognition.
In that instant, Bo Le and the horse understood each other.
And this moment wasn't just captured in a legend.
More than a thousand years later, A Tang Dynasty writer named Han Yu wrote about it in an essay called Ma Shuo On Horses, in which he said Only when there is Bo Le can there be a thousand-mile horse.
Because here's the truth.
Great horses are everywhere, but experts with the eyes to see them.
Han Yu went on to say Even a legendary horse can end up pulling carts stuck in a stable or working itself to exhaustion.
Not because it isn't fast enough, but because no one understands what it's truly capable of.
A thousand-mile horse needs proper food, proper guidance, and trust.
Treat it like an ordinary horse, and it will never run a thousand miles.
Then people sigh and say, There are no great horses left.
But Han Yu asks, Is it really the case that there are no great horses?
Or is it that we don't know how to recognize them?
The story of Bo Le gives us our first piece of ancient Chinese wisdom.
True talent needs an appreciative eye to be discovered.
So whether you are a horse or a Bo Le, this story asks one simple question.
Are you running at your true speed?
And just as important, are you helping others unleash their true potential?
I think on another show, Roundtable, which both Steve and I are hosting, we did that story as well.
We did.
We did it a little differently, but yet very similarly.
We kind of dramatized the story a little bit more and maybe added some extra details.
But this one is quite good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Historically.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, we kind of threw history out the window just a little tiny bit for our show's purposes.
Have a bit of fun.
Yeah.
So Paul Le was this character that was known, this man that was known for his ability to to see the talent in a horse specifically,
Yes, but when the EDM started to evolve, of course, it's talking not about just horse.
It's talking about being able to see the talent in someone.
So we know Bo Le is the person.
Xiang is kind of like to look at, but not only looking at, but to evaluate, to be able to detect, to find out.
And 马 is horse.
So 伯乐向马 is 伯乐 detecting or finding out the best horse.
Even though it doesn't look like one from other people's perspective, 伯乐 sees the talent.
So in modern days, I think the most common way of using this term is to say that 你是我的伯乐。
你是我的伯乐。 You are my 伯乐。 You saw the talent in me that maybe I didn't even know before.
Does this apply to dating?
No.
Why not?
It applies to career setting, official working.
No, I think it can apply to dating too, right?
So let's say a guy you know he was down on his luck and he met a girl and she just he, he wasn't working at the time or he wasn't studying at the time, and he just nothing was going right in his life.
But she said i believe in you.
No, i know, i know what you mean.
And then he can say wow, Here's why.
The reason that you cannot use that in that certain scenario is that we often use it when Bo Le is proven right.
So how do you prove Bo Le is right about this specific talent that no one can recognize?
The talent got success.
Oh, so it has to be a specific talent.
It's not just like you saw the potential in me.
It can be you saw the potential in me, but it has to be you saw.
So because of the Bo Le person.
The Bo Le person would recommend this talent to a certain job, post or to a company and after a while people started to realize oh, this talent is really, he has something, he's the real deal, he's able to provide the kind of result that no one can and he's really successful in his post.
And that precisely because the boiler found him and put him at the right place, which is just like the story the boiler put the horse at the right place yeah, and show the entire world that the person or the horse is talented, and that It's kind of like the full circle of the Bo Le finding and fighting against those who disagree and then prove right.
So in modern times, it has to be related to work somehow.
Yes.
And it has to be about someone discovering a talent in you.
Or if you are Bo Le, then you're the discoverer of talent.
And then making use of that talent.
Right.
Here's my question.
If the talent discoverer sees the special talent in someone, does that person need to be down on their luck or something like that?
Because Bolo's horse was not doing well.
It was malnourished.
It was weak.
So does that mean still in modern times the employee has to be I don't even know what the example would be like Unmotivated or not performing well, but the boss still sees that talent inside them.
Somehow like that, yes.
Or maybe this person is just mediocre, but the Bo Le found out what's valuable in him or her and then they got hugely promoted and very successful.
So there has to be that drastic difference between now and then.
Have you ever been a Bo Le?
And have you ever had a Bo Le in your life?
Two-part question.
I don't think I have been a Bo Le just yet, but I definitely wish to be in the future, because it's always nice to help someone young and help them find their way to success.
And yes, definitely.
I think my mentor can be my Bo Le.
Oh, you're welcome.
So I think I do not have to ask you.
Yeah, I guess that's kind of the English equivalent, right?
It's well, is it?
I don't know to say that you're a mentor to someone or a mentor.
You have a mentor.
I think it's a little bit different, because having a mentor it's not about discovering a hidden talent.
And the thing about Bo Le well, the both fortunate and unfortunate thing about Bo Le is that when he is really good at finding out the talent from each and every distinct individual, His son was not that good.
Yeah, that story, he brought home a frog, a toad.
A toad.
Right?
Let's listen to that story.
Let's listen to An Tu Suo Ji.
Bo Le's son looks for a steed with a picture.
As Bo Le grew older, he realized that that his ability to recognize extraordinary horses was a gift too valuable to keep to himself.
So he wrote a book, The Classic of Horse Appraisal, basically the ancient version of a star manual, detailing everything he had learned after a lifetime of studying horses.
It is said that that a thousand mile horse has a high, broad forehead, bright and alert eyes, strong and well-shaped hooves.
Each detail matters.
His son got this treasure book and was super excited.
Eager to find a winged steed himself, he searched strictly according to the illustrations, checking off every feature, and guess what he found Out?
Of all the creatures he came across, he found a toad.
He rushed home joyfully and told his father, I found the super horse.
Its forehead is prominent.
Its eyes are bright.
Only that its hooves aren't quite right.
Bola took one look. and didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
Finally, he said, Well, this horse loves to jump too much.
You'll never be able to ride it.
This story gives us our second key of wisdom.
Be flexible.
Think beyond the obvious.
Bo Le's book was a summary of his experiences, but the real world is complex and constantly changing.
Rigidly following stereotypes without adapting to reality can lead to laughing stock moments like mistaking a toad for a steed.
That is a sad story.
What's the message of this story?
The message is that the map might be the same, but you have to adjust your tactic, adjust your strategy based on the real situation.
Oh, see, that's a different message than I got.
What was the message?
Sometimes your kids are dumb.
Have another one, I guess.
Better luck next time.
That's a good message, too.
But not the message the idiom tries to send.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean just strictly, jokes aside strictly, following the instructions of the book, Bola's son did what was told in a sense.
In a sense and this idiom is, in my opinion, very valuable in its structure, because each and every character would carry a meaning and you put the meanings together, it is Well.
For example, 按 is to according to and or following something.
图 is a picture.
所 is a quest for or a pursue after.
And 计 is a way, another way of saying a perfect steed, a really good horse.
So 按, 图, 所, 计, according to picture, searching for horse.
Yes, so that is a very obvious one.
And for idioms like this.
If, for example, you're learning and you saw four characters, you understand perfectly what each and every character means, but putting together you cannot quite grasp.
The meaning of it you.
That is the perfect time to ask your Chinese friend, or to search or to look up in a dictionary.
Because usually if it's a four character idiom and it kind of makes sense, then there must be a story, background story.
So what's the modern day context where you can use this idiom?
Well, people would say don't just search for the steed by book.
So don't act only by book.
That's the idea.
And they describe a situation or a story or someone with that idiom, showcasing that they don't think it's a very smart move.
But when it comes to horses, there are smart moves indeed.
And there are smart tactics related to horse.
I'm talking about Tian Ji Sai Ma.
Have you ever heard of the story?
It's a really good one.
Tian Ji Sai Ma.
Tian Ji Sai Ma.
It is called Tian Ji's Horse Racing.
Let's take a listen.
Before the horses hit the track.
We need to meet the legend in this tale, a man named Sun Bin.
He was a brilliant military strategist, a descendant of Sun Tzu.
Yes, that Sun Tzu, the one who wrote The Art of War.
Sun Bin was just as sharp.
He later wrote his own classic, Sun Bin's Art of War.
Strategy was his superpower.
And let's see how he used it to help his boss win a horse race.
His boss, Tian Ji, was a high-ranking general in ancient China.
And he loved horse racing.
But the problem was, he kept losing.
To help his boss, Sun Bin watched a few races.
And it didn't take long for him to figure something out.
He saw the same pattern every time.
Three horses on each side.
A top tier, a mid tier, and a lower tier one.
The opponent's horses were slightly better in every category.
Race straight up.
Tian Ji would lose every single race.
Game over.
Sun Bin went to his boss, forget matching the best with the best.
He whispered, let's play the game differently.
And his winning strategy involved losing first.
Round one, raise Tian Ji's slowest horse against the competitor's fastest horse.
Result?
A deliberate crushing loss.
Race 2.
Race Tian Ji's best horse against the competitor's second best.
Result?
A solid win.
Round 3. raised Tianji's second best horse against the competitor's slowest.
Result?
Another win.
Two wins, one loss.
Same horses, but a much more desirable outcome.
Of course, this story isn't just about horses.
It's about strategy and resourcefulness.
When you can't be the strongest in every category, you have to be the smartest with what you've got.
It's also about seeing the whole board, beyond just the immediate sprint.
Sometimes, winning the big game means cleverly sacrificing a small battle.
Wasn't that...
A very smart man.
Strategic.
Very strategic.
I think I understand the message better than I understood the previous story's message.
This is a very wise man, considering the fact that it's thousands of years ago and also in such a game.
I think the thing is you have to really know the game to play the game.
But I think it's the bigger picture.
Taking a loss to make a gain is worth it.
Sometimes it's like, well, we have that expression, two steps forward, one step back.
But that means regression.
It means you've progressed a little bit, but now you've regressed slightly.
But I think this is kind of the opposite.
It's one step back, two steps forward.
Okay.
You're willing to take... That's not an English expression, by the way.
But the concept kind of works because it's about accepting a smaller loss for a larger gain.
And here, 田稷 is the name of the person, of the main character.
And 赛 is race.
马 is horse.
So it's a horse racing.
田稷赛马 So can I use this modern day?
Let's say, a new business opens and for the first month, let's say it's a coffee shop, and for the first month, from 10 till 12, I'm giving away.
I'm the owner here, I'm giving away free coffee every morning for two hours.
And you say to me, are you crazy?
Do you know how much money you're going to lose?
And I say, yeah, but I'm losing so that I can build loyal customers here.
And then later I will win.
I know where you're from.
And I think the logic applies.
But the situation does not apply for this idiom.
Because, when it comes to, if you say that to any Chinese, you're basically saying that I am at a disadvantaged position position, but I am using it very strategically so that I can win over someone who is better than me.
So it's about competition among similar peers or members.
It cannot be about the entire strategy.
I have a better example.
Go ahead.
I'm in an argument with my wife and I know, I know I'm right.
You're never right when you're arguing with your wife.
Yeah.
I know I'm right.
But I say, okay, honey, you're right.
And you say, Steve, but she's wrong.
Why did you do that?
And I say, No, it doesn't work.
I take the loss because it's better for me in the long run.
No?
No, no.
No.
I'm going to start a new podcast where I teach people how to not use Chinese expressions.
Again, I know where you're from, but...
Let's narrow it down to you have several members and the other party have several members.
And it has to be that, in general, your members or your team players are not as good as the other one.
Or maybe you have different products.
You have three different products.
That is not as good as the three different products from the other party.
But by strategically playing the game, using your strong sides to compete with other people or other teams' weak sides, you won.
So it has to be Competition.
Competition.
And it's more like you have to change or you have to replace the horse with human or with team or with just something that are I don't know creature or something like that.
Yes.
And that is why Tianji Sai Ma is definitely one of the most famous stories or idioms related to the animal horse.
Yeah, that's a fun one.
They were all fun ones.
Today, i'm glad we could uh, listen to those and share them with our audience.
Yes, and for those of you who enjoy the stories, the making, the production and everything, make sure you tune in to chinese folk tales.
In that podcast you can hear shorter idiom related stories like this, and also longer history stories or even stories related to Chinese classics, like the Monkey King related stories, and see what the horse related story is like in that classic.
So make sure you check it out.
This is Takeaway Chinese.
Thank you so much.
I'm Niu Honglin with Steve and we'll see you next time.
Bye bye.
Bye.
