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China's foreign and defense ministers meet with their Cambodian counterparts in joint dialogue.
China reports steady farm output and rural income growth in the first quarter.
The world's largest iceberg completely disintegrates.
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First up, China and Cambodia have held their first two-plus-twos strategic dialogue between foreign and defense ministers.
Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi and Defense Minister Dong Jun co-chaired the meeting with their Cambodian counterparts in Phnom Penh.
Wang Yi said China is ready to turn the dialogue into a key platform to promote political and security cooperation and support Cambodia's development.
China has also voiced the support for dialogue between Cambodia and Thailand to rebuild their trust and improve their bilateral ties.
Cambodian officials have described China as their country's most trustworthy partner, reaffirming their commitment to the One China principle.
So for more.
Joining us now on the line is Ina Tengen, Senior Fellow of the Center for International Governance Innovation, a Canada-based think tank.
So thank you very much for joining us today, Ina.
First of all, what do you think of the launch of this 2 plus 2 strategic dialogue itself?
Tells us about the momentum of the ties between China and Cambodia.
Well, a 2 plus 2 format combining foreign and defense ministers is reserved for countries with deep political trust and growing security coordination.
It shows that the ties are now being extended beyond trade uh, into street planning.
I mean, in many ways, cambodia's.
It has strategic value to china and also vice versa for china.
It's about location being a crossroads linking china, the mekong region Thailand, Vietnam and maritime Southeast Asia, which could be a potential avoiding the kind of bottleneck that you get at the Malacca Straits.
And obviously for Cambodia, China is a rich source of trade and development.
It's already done a tremendous amount in terms of the infrastructure, and they want to deepen that.
There's also issues, obviously, about security, the ongoing situation with Thailand.
China's trying to help.
In what ways do you think cooperation between China and Cambodia is contributing to regional peace, security or stability?
There's a two-front piece to this.
One is the infrastructure projects, the Belt and Road Initiative, creating the kind of prosperity that can extend in.
Cambodia is not like China.
It's not developed.
They're still in their initial phases, and they do need the basic transportation.
But there's also, beyond that, law enforcement cooperation, military exchanges to help Cambodia strengthen its domestic capacity.
And there are drivers of instability that they're trying to avoid.
I see.
China is actually a major source of FDI foreign direct investment for Cambodia, and a bilateral trade between the two sides reached more than 197 billion last year.
How do you think China has contributed to the improvement of livelihoods in Cambodia?
Well, this goes back to what I was saying just before.
This finance has gone into roads, bridges, power plants, industrial parks.
It allows development.
Goods can be moved quickly to their destinations and things like that.
So it creates jobs, transport and energy access, energy being one of the real key issues here, especially with the oil situation globally oil and gas, I should say.
Hmm.
The close ties between China and Cambodia have drawn some suspicion.
For example, the US government has been for years, I guess has been questioning this.
China funded renovation of a naval base in Cambodia.
Ina, how would you respond to the so-called concern from Washington?
Well, there's a certain amount of propaganda that goes on.
There's always been this stuff that China is hosting a military base there.
There's no evidence of it.
The United States hasn't produced anything.
What they like to do is say, well, they could be doing it.
Phom Penh's constitution doesn't allow foreign bases on Cambodian soil.
So what I really think the issue here is the US would love to have a base in Cambodia, but for historical reasons, etc.
They don't.
So they try to impute what they want to what China.
And that's it.
I mean, this is nothing more than propaganda that's being pushed.
Unfortunately, it's kind of this everything is China's fault.
And it's China who's the aggressor because they don't start any wars.
I'm just being facetious there.
Hmm.
How would you assess the role played by China or Chinese diplomats, when we talk about a ceasefire in last year's border clash between Cambodia and Thailand?
China is entirely consistent.
They don't tell or threaten either side.
What they do is they say, look, this is going to end at the peace table.
Let's try to figure it out now instead of having any more confrontations.
More blood being spilled doesn't make it easier to negotiate what needs to be done.
These are territorial disputes, many leftovers from the colonial past countries in Europe who decided to draw lines that did not respect the culture and history of the countries involved.
So these are going to take some time to work out.
But China's idea is not like the US, where they sit down and they say well, this is a peace conference.
And generally a peace conference involving the US or Europe.
The peace part is what they're going to take from this particular transaction.
Whereas China says, look, we need to have some sort of harmony.
Any peace process has to be driven by consensus on both sides.
And China, will you know, set the table, but they have to sit down at it and arrive at what they think they can live with.
They might not both be happy, but in the end, if they agree to something then it's consensus.
If you're forcing a piece on somebody Well, we've seen what happens.
You know, it's just bad feelings build up and then you have another war or altercation.
Hmm.
So, as we have seen from this strategic dialogue held in Cambodia, the Chinese side voiced the support for dialogue between Cambodia and Thailand to rebuild their trust and to improve their ties.
I mean the ties between Cambodia and Thailand.
Realistically, what concrete measures or steps do you expect China to offer?
Well, it is not on China to offer anything except to set the table.
This isn't where you can buy off both sides.
What they're trying to do is get, as I said before, they're trying to get them to reach a consensus between the countries.
It isn't a situation where China can magically wave its magic wand or throw a lot of money at this and all of a sudden it'll be okay.
You know, you're talking about areas of historical significance.
There has to be a way of doing it.
I mean the obvious solution, and maybe one that will be pushed not by China but hopefully by both sides, is to have a situation where any disputed area is put under the control of mutually neutral control of both countries.
And that way they can avoid any kind of decision about who owns it or who doesn't own it and that type of thing.
That kind of solution can really be very, very effective for many, many situations and could apply to other areas, even the South China Seas.
By the way Ina, do you think a stable relationship between Cambodia and Thailand is in China's interests?
Of course it is.
I mean, peace is in everybody's interest.
China is a trading nation.
It's near, you know, there's 195 countries.
China is about 100 in terms of resources per person.
It has increased its manufacturing.
It's now the manufacturer to the world.
But it depends on global markets to import resources and then add value to them, to pay for those resources and then sell in the process.
They sell these things to overseas.
And therefore, peace is absolutely essential.
But it's not peace on terms of ideology.
It is simply peace on terms of mutual respect.
Going back to the four initiatives it's all about.
Every country deserves to be secure and their security cannot depend on the insecurity of another nation.
Every country has to have their own path to development.
No country should be able to interfere with that.
And then, you know, internally anyways.
And every country needs to be respected for what it is.
I mean, countries are very complex.
They've been put together not, you know, by man, but by people accidents birth, and sometimes by the machinations of colonial powers that sometimes pitted one part of a country against another in order to maintain control.
So China says there has to be a way of global governance, some way that you can sit down and talk as opposed to fight.
And this is essential.
As I said at the very beginning, this Cambodia is an important part.
Its location is essential.
It can offer a road that can get past the kind of bottlenecks that are created by places like the Malacca Straits.
We're witnessing what is happening with Iran.
So China is looking toward the future.
They want to make sure that there are ways in which it doesn't get bottled up, because once you get bottled up, All right.
You're in a really serious situation.
And then kinetic solutions start to appear as necessary.
China's avoiding that.
Just like the Belt and Road went over land when it was clear the US was trying to bobble China up on the seas,
In a bigger picture sense, Ina.
Some say China is working to increase its sphere of influence in Southeast Asia.
Do you see it that way?
Not at all.
China is not putting any kind of ideological strings on anything that it does.
It's the Belt and Road Initiative has helped countries grow their trade jobs and prosperity.
ASEAN has grown along with China, not in spite of China, not as an afterthought to China.
It is all part of a global system.
It really what you have here is going back to this idea of propaganda being pushed out, especially by the United States, simply because this idea that you're either with the United States or you're against the United States.
There's no room for countries to somehow be in between because they view that as illegal.
You're now declaring yourself an enemy of the US.
So people should put that aside.
Look at what has happened.
13 trillion put into the Belt and Road Initiative, growth rates that exceed and double or triple that of developed countries.
Since China has been involved, you know pushing this since 2013.
So you look at the facts.
Do not be swayed by the narratives that are being pushed out, the negative ones about China.
Look at what China has done.
Has it started wars?
No.
It has all been done by treaties, just like this meeting between China and Cambodia.
They're deepening the relationship Mostly because they want better trade.
They want security.
They want all the things that the four initiatives are talking about.
Thank you very much for joining us and for your analysis.
Ina Tengen, Senior Fellow of the Center for International Governance Innovation at Canadian Think Tank.
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China's agricultural economy maintained steady growth over the first quarter of this year.
Officials from China's Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs say that grain and oil production remains on a solid footing.
Winter wheat growth is largely back on track, while the area in a condition for winter ripe seed remained stable.
Officials with the ministry have in the meantime also reported progress in terms of the country's rural revitalization efforts.
So joining us now on the line is Professor Yao Shujie Chang Kong, Professor of Economics with Chongqing University.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Hi.
So, according to the new official figures, basically over the course of Q1, we have seen smooth progress in the spring plantation for grain and as well as a steady growth in terms of the output of a variety of meat and milk and aquatic products, etc.
Why do you think this is the case?
China's agricultural technological progress is the basic explanation for China's steady agricultural production and rural development.
The cultivated areas in China actually have been declining due to urban development and also transportation construction.
However, China is able to intensify the use of the available land by putting lots of investment into the basic infrastructure irrigation, and also in a greenhouse development and modern technology in fishery and other agricultural products, especially eggs, chicken and pork and other major food in the Chinese food ecosystem.
So this is the very good explanation and why the plantation also wheat and rapeseed and other agricultural produce.
They can be grown in a steady way and also with expected yield per hectare.
It's because of the basic infrastructure in the cultivated land area.
Another thing is also the quality of the labor force.
Agricultural labor force has not only become more clever in terms of using the time for cultivation and shorten the time of production cycle.
And modern seas, high quality seas also is another explanation.
So it is a very sophisticated system development over the last few decades to maintain China's agricultural productivity and also to maintain the stability of the agricultural production system.
Hmm.
Meanwhile, Professor Yao, the value added output of large scale agricultural or sideline food processing industries rose by 68 year on year in the first quarter.
Fixed asset investment in the primary industry, namely agricultural-based industries, grew by almost 16 and the per capita disposable income for rural residents increased by 54 during this period.
What do you read from those numbers?
These are the very important major indicators of the quality of agriculture systems.
The production of the agribusiness, especially the processing industry.
It's a rise because of the people's demand from the popular consumers 14 billion people.
It requires not only the raw agricultural produce, such as vegetables, pork and other things, but it also demands more increasingly for the agricultural process product.
And this would add lots of value added to the agricultural production and also the agribusiness production system.
It explains why, you know, the value addict of the agricultural sector is increasing, despite china's urbanization and also industrialization.
Another indicator is the investment also into the primary production system, which is basically the agricultural sector and the rural area.
15% is much higher than the national average of total assets investment.
It means that there is still more vitalization in the agricultural system.
It means that there is still scope and opportunity for investors to put money into the agricultural production sector.
And it's reflected by the, you know, the robust increase of people's income in the agricultural area.
Farmers' income rose by 5.4%, which is higher than the GDP.
GDP grows by only 5% and farm income increases by 5.4%.
It means that, in parallel to the robustness of the macroeconomy system, which is reflected by the growth of the GDP, the rural people is getting more and more as a result of economic development.
You know, the rural area tends to be disadvantaged in terms of per capita income, which is significantly less than the urban area.
And, in the most recent years actually, the increase of the rural per capita income is outperforming the urban sector, which narrowed the gap between the rural and the urban area in terms of per capita income, which reflected the socialism harmonism for getting all the people to become more prosperous, particularly the rural people.
And this had a very significant reflection in the improvement of the Chinese economy system.
Talking more about farmers, we have also learned from the latest released official figures that more than 11 million service organizations are nowadays providing agricultural services to nearly 93 million smallholder farmers across China.
So how would you rate the importance of such kind of support for smaller farmers?
Yes, as these two numbers also indicate, for every nine smallholders, basically the family farmers, there will be one service organization supporting them.
This concept ratio is very encouraging in the sense that nowadays, agricultural production is not in isolation, especially the smallholders, for example, paddy rice producers or wheat producers.
They don't produce in isolation.
They actually brought in lots of services in terms of planting, in terms of transplanting and also in cultivating, irrigation and harvesting.
Throughout the agricultural production cycle there will be different kinds of service organizations coming to the farm to help.
And this is why, although the Chinese land area is divided into 93 million smallholders, but the production, with the service system, they become a fully integrated and sophisticated production system.
And this explains to the earlier point why the Chinese agricultural sector has demonstrated such a degree of robustness and dynamism, especially for so many years.
It's still performing fairly resilient to any kinds of external shock, not only outside and inside, not only it is a natural disaster.
The Chinese agricultural sector proved to be very robust and very resilient and is still improving.
So it's very encouraging that the 14 billion people have very good support from the agricultural system.
By the way, very briefly, Professor Yao, do you think the war in the Middle East, especially the disruption around the Strait of Hormuz, could generate any pressure for China's agricultural industry?
To some extent, yes.
Because of the blockage of the transportation, especially the oil transportation from the Hormuz Strait, you can see the rising prices in the petrol station and it will be penetrating into the transportation system.
It will push up the cost of agricultural production.
So uh, and also external, will be more effective.
Internally, as we say, the domestic system is highly uh, you know strong, but uh, because the price is rising.
Then farmer would have to bear the kinds of rising costs.
So i expected, You know, in the near future the domestic prices may be set to rise to some extent.
OK, but overall, we can see a large degree of resilience.
I guess that's the point you were making earlier.
But thank you very much for joining us.
Professor Yao Shujie Chang Kong, Professor of Economics with Chongqing University.
You are listening to World Today.
I'm Ding Han in Beijing.
We'll be back after a very short break.
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Chinese online payment platform WeChat Pay has expanded its cross-border services, allowing users to scan local QR codes in South Korea, Sri Lanka Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore.
That means that travelers can now pay like locals without downloading new applications.
The platform now covers more than 70 countries and more than 30 currencies.
Alipay Plus, another major Chinese payment platform, now connects more than 40 e-wallets globally.
So for more.
Joining us now on the line is Chen Jiahe, Chief Investment Officer of Noven Aki Technologies.
Thank you very much for joining us, Jiahe.
Thank you for having me.
So, first of all, do you think this step taken by WeChat Pay, we are talking about here, represents a natural, inevitable development?
Why or why not?
Well, it's definitely a very natural development.
I mean, if you look at the development of China's economy, China's economy is becoming more and more influential in the world.
We actually trading more with you know more countries around the world, especially when the tariff for has been started by the Trump administration in the past few years.
I mean, many countries actually turning to trade with China.
So you see, China's economic influence around the world and economic connection with many countries is actually increasing from time to time.
So more Chinese people actually traveling to these countries.
So while we go there, we got used to use these apps like WeChat and Alipay in China.
So when we go to some other countries and we find it's, you know, you can also use WeChat there.
You can also use Alipay there.
It makes things really going to be convenient.
So this is a very natural thing that happens alongside the growth of China's economy.
Now, from a technical perspective, do you think it is easy to resolve the issue surrounding interoperability between WeChat Pay and those countries' local payment infrastructures?
Well, this is a very good question.
There will be a lot of technical issues for us to sort out.
I mean, it's quite many things.
I mean, I would say it's hard work.
It requires a lot of hard work of the technicians of China's companies and also the technicians of the foreign countries who are trading with China.
It's a lot of things you have to work things through.
I mean how to connect your payment system, how to avoid any possible fraud payment, all these kind of things.
How are you going to avoid the virus?
I mean, it's a lot of work.
But the thing is that all the works can be done if there is economic benefits.
And because China is connecting stronger and stronger with many economies around the world.
So making this happen is a very beneficial thing for both the Chinese people and the countries who are welcoming Chinese people to travel there, to spend money there.
So I mean, I think these obstacles can be overcome.
So would you expect WeChat Pay's measure to further boost outbound Chinese tourist flows to those five Asian countries.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean it's a very positive sign, because when we are traveling outside, I mean when we are going to travel to some other countries, you have choices between different countries.
It doesn't matter you're going to take a trip, have some traveling, or you are trying to find the business opportunities there.
And you have choices between different countries.
And now there is information telling you In this country, you can use your WeChat program.
You don't have to install the local software.
And some other country says you must install the local software.
You can't use WeChat there.
You can't use Alipay there.
What would you feel?
I mean, taken all other conditions to be equivalent, you definitely choose a place that is more convenient.
This is not only about some procedure.
This also tells you that this market welcomes you because um, they have set everything so convenient for you, so you definitely choose a place that's more convenient and more welcoming you.
Yeah, perception really matters, i guess when we take, when we um consider our travel decisions, to put it this way.
So, beyond Chinese travelers or travelers from China or Chinese mainland, do you see possibility for WeChat Pay and Alipay Plus to be more widely used across the world?
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, this is the outcome of a free trading market, because there are, you know, hundreds of countries around the world, about 200 of them, And China is now having about one fifth of the global GDP.
And we are taking a very large share of the global trade.
I think it's about 40 or 50 percent, something like that.
So China actually trades a lot.
So in that case, for economies and countries around the world, trading with China and having economic connection with China is always a beneficial sign.
I mean, you can't miss this large trading partner.
So when Chinese people come over and say okay uh, it makes us feel more welcome and convenient if we can use waiter there and you can make money as well.
We're not, but we're using the software because we want to pay you.
It's only in a more convenient way.
So i mean, why not?
So it's it's like this kind of competition would drive these Chinese local softwares to be more welcomed and used by more and more economies around the world.
Finally Jiahao, the People's Bank of China, the country's central bank, once said earlier this year, in January, that It would accelerate the development of a cross-border payment system in yuan this year and promote diversified multi-layer, multi-level cross-border payment connectivity.
So what do you make of the key issues that should be addressed or resolved during this development process?
It's actually, when we look at all these procedures and actions of the PDOC, China's central bank, is that they're trying to make RMB and China's financial system more connected to the world.
So it's a huge amount of detailed work to do here.
I mean, there are many issues.
For example, you have so many financial issues, legal issues, technical issues that requires the work of tens of thousands of people to work day over night to sort them out.
So these are the detailed works.
Another matter is the safety, because you're concerned about the payments across the border and that requires more work to anticipate anti-fraud anti-virus, all these kinds of things.
So it's actually quite a lot of work to do compared with only paying the money in China.
And the final thing, which is the most important thing, is that the degree of China's currency and China's financial system to be connected to the world is actually depending upon how important China's economy and China's global trade is to other economies around the world.
So, in order to make China's financial system and China's IMB to be more connected to the other countries around the world, the most important thing is always the development of China's economy.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Chen Jiahe, Chief Investment Officer with Novena Key Technologies.
Coming up, the world's biggest iceberg is completely disintegrating.
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The world's largest iceberg A23A, has quickly broken up after a 40-year lifespan, as warming ocean waters speed up the melting of the Antarctic ice shelf.
The development comes as extreme weather hits multiple regions across the world, including record heat in Australia and early floods in southern China.
Experts have also warned that a Super El Nino is likely to develop by May and then going to strengthen through summer and autumn, threatening to drive global temperatures to new highs.
So for more on this, my colleague Lian Qingxuan spoke with Professor Diana Urge-Vossat from the Department of Environmental Sciences and Policy with Central European University.
So Diana, this biggest iceberg lasted more than 40 years, but has broken apart rapidly in recent months.
Is this linked to ocean warming and are there any other drivers?
Certainly, ocean warming is one of the effects that is driving the disintegration of this iceberg.
But so far for decades, the iceberg did not really change because it was stuck on the sea floor.
And once it got loose from the sea floor, it was drifting more northwards.
So it was exposed to warmer waters.
And we do know that the Southern Ocean absorbs 40 of the excess heat in general absorbed by the oceans.
So that heat, and also the different changing ocean currents and more extreme wind and waves, these all accelerate the disintegration of this iceberg.
And waters around this iceberg have turned green.
Can you tell us why and what does this mean for the local marine ecosystem?
Exactly.
So we do see that around the iceberg, the ocean is getting greener.
This is most likely signaling so-called phytoplankton blooms, so the local plants within the ocean are blooming.
And that actually is a positive effect for the ecosystems, because these are the foundations of the local foodbath.
And anyway, the Southern Ocean is a very, very rich ecosystem for first animal creels and fish.
And there's a lot of fishing activities as a result.
So this means this bloom, that actually this is feeding a lot of this ecosystem And a lot of these species and also the fish stocks and krill stocks.
And so this will be good for whales and everything else.
At the same time, the worry is that if this collapses fast, then actually this can cause oxygen deprivation.
And in the end, that can cause more negative impacts.
Okay, I see.
Now let's shift gear to extreme weather.
Since early this year, Australia has seen extreme heat, while southern China has also experienced earlier than usual heat, along with earlier flood and drought seasons.
What is driving these shifts?
So there are shifts, often in the weather patterns, especially on a yearly basis, so we don't necessarily have big explanations, because the weather and weather patterns are changing.
Having said that, those events that you've identified are consistent with the general trends that we're seeing.
And in general, the heat and extreme seas and rainy seasons are shifting and often start earlier.
We also know that the Chinese Meteorological Association has reported that heat days, hot days, have increased by close to 20 days per year since the 1990s.
So that means that we are in general experiencing more heat days, so they are coming earlier.
And also the dried seasons are usually longer and more intensive, because we do see these as a result of global warming and climate change.
That heat is one of the most important impacts, as well as droughts, because the hotter it is and the longer it is, there is more evaporation from the soil.
So even with the same precipitation, the soils are drying out faster.
And this year, three tropical cyclones formed near the equator at the same time, which is really rare.
What is the mechanism behind this?
Exactly.
So tropical cycles around the equator are rare because the so-called Coriolis force.
This is one of the physical effects that is driving the formation of tropical cycles.
This is quite weak around the equator.
Nevertheless, we do experience once in a while tropical swarms forming around the equator.
And that's usually due to unusually warm sea surface temperatures.
So it has to be 28, 29 degrees.
And with global warming, and especially the seas and oceans taking up most of the excess heat absorbed by the planet, these events, or these extreme sea surface temperatures, are getting more and more likely.
At the same time, this is not alone enough.
It also requires certain changes in the circulation, ocean circulation patterns, as well as wind conditions for tropical cyclones to form.
And some experts say that an super El Niño is expected to form by May and strengthen through summer and autumn.
Can you explain its potential impacts?
Exactly.
So El Niño is one of the ocean circulation phenomena that kind of changes direction every two to five years.
And, as a result, it has a major influence on global weather and even global climate, because years when the so-called El Niño phenomenon is taking place, which the global temperature is warmer than usual, and when the opposite the La Niña is taking place, then the global temperature is usually colder than usual.
We call it a super El Niño, if And the sea temperatures don't only rise in the Southern Pacific, not only rise by half a degree or more, maybe one to two degrees centigrade.
Now, this means that all the typical and new effects that we anyway see in the world are going to get stronger than usual, if this really does happen.
What does that mean?
We know that this very strong El Nino erases even more from the global economy.
So El Nino can cost trillions of dollars of losses in global GDP.
Often this manifests itself through food production, because droughts are getting stronger, for example in Australia.
Also unfortunately, some parts of China.
These are expected, but also heavy rainfalls can be expected.
For example, in the watershed of the Yangtze River, the likelihood of floods is increasing.
But in general, also rice and maize production in Southeast Asia is usually strongly affected.
So, even though these effects cannot be guaranteed, because every El Nino is slightly different, but such impacts on Agriculture and especially some of the food production, can be expected, unfortunately this year.
This Wednesday is Earth Day.
Global warming now is driving atmospheric warming, sea level rise and more unstable weather.
What are the most effective ways for us to reduce those risks?
Exactly.
So there are three things we can do.
First, it is very important to reduce emissions, or actually reduce them to zero or net zero emissions.
That means that we have to displace fossil fuels by clean energy sources.
And in this regard, China is really leading the way in many perspectives.
For example, China's emissions have already plateaued.
They have not been growing in the last year or two, while the economy has been growing substantially.
Also, China is one of the powerhouses of supplying the whole world with cheap renewable energy equipment.
So solar energy, but also wind turbines, electric vehicles, batteries for electric mobility and electric logistics and electric shipping are very important, and also power storage in general.
So these are really crucial in phasing out oil, coal, and natural gas as soon as possible.
The second we can do because even if we manage to phase this out very fast still, we are already experiencing important warming and we will continue to experience some more warming.
And these extremes are going to get even more extreme.
So that means we need to adapt more and we need to become more resilient.
And for that, for example again, China is leading others also the way, for example, this point city concept that China is showing that is very powerful because, for example, it is aiming to absorb 70 of the rainwater, which is important because urbanization and covering soil with sealed surfaces contributes significantly to flooding.
So not only is there more rain and more extreme rain, but also urban surfaces contribute to flooding.
And the third is nature-based solutions, which are really important.
For example, more parks, better soil, more mangroves, more forests.
They are all, and more, even more sea grass in the oceans.
They are all absorbing carbon but at the same time also protecting our shores, protecting our soils, creating more rain even in drought conditions.
So, in general, nature-based solutions provide a lot of resilience and adaptation, as well as carbon storage.
So they form a very important part of fighting climate change and its impact.
Professor Diana Urge-Vassat from the Department of Environmental Sciences and Policy at Central European University, speaking with my colleague Lianqin Xuan.
Coming up, Britain has passed a bill with an aim to eventually ban cigarette purchases.
This is World Today, stay tuned.
Hello, my name is Alessandro Golombievski Teixeira.
I'm a professor of public policy management at Tsinghua University in Beijing.
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Britain's Parliament has passed a bill to stop people born after 2008 from buying tobacco during their whole lives.
The tobacco and vapes bill was introduced by Prime Minister Keir Starmer's government in 2024 with an aim to reduce the harm caused by smoking.
It will become law after receiving a royal assent next week.
The bill is giving new powers to the government officials in terms of regulating tobacco, vaping and nicotine products, including their flavors and packaging.
So for more.
Joining us now.
On the line is Muhammad Ali Nasir, Professor of Economics at Britain's University of Leeds.
Thank you very much for joining us.
So, first of all Professor, how would you rate the risks that are posed by smoking or by the tobacco industry to your country's public health?
Smoking has been a big problem for Britain.
It's been a big problem in terms of health, in terms of social cost it poses and also in terms of its economic costs that it poses on the country.
So smoking has been a big problem for British society over the years.
And to address that problem, in the last 20 years or so the government has been tightening the regulations and putting restrictions on the smoking.
In the most recent legislation you just mentioned.
Now Government has passed the law that the sale of cigarettes to people which are bored after 2008 would be banned.
In terms of its cost, how costly this issue is, I mean, just to give you one statistics.
Every year, about 80,000 deaths are attributed to smoking.
This is a very big number for a country like Britain.
And every single life is valuable.
80000 losses of human life in a year is is really a tragedy.
Now on top of that, if we can, we can talk about the economic cost there.
I mean there are some estimates which suggest that the smoking every year costs uk economy over 50 billion pound, which is again a very large economic cost and of course other cost in a sense that it puts restraint of on our health care system, which is already stretched and under pressure, and it also has a social care costs.
There are costs associated with the productivity losses because we don't have a healthy workforce because of smoking.
So there are many costs associated to this problem.
And this legislation, which has just come out, that is one effort to overcome this problem.
Looking to elsewhere, we know New Zealand has previously introduced a world-first law to ban smoking for the country's future generations.
However, it was later abolished because The government finds that it still needed those cigarette sales revenue to, for example, to finance a government tax cut, for example.
So what lessons can Britain learn from the case in New Zealand?
Yes, yes.
I mean indeed, New Zealand was a country which tried this idea before Britain and unfortunately it didn't work well there.
But I think the UK is very different from the case of New Zealand.
In the case of New Zealand, you had one government.
They passed this law.
They tried to implement it.
Another government came.
They changed it.
However, in the case of UK, if you look at the last 20 years, we can see that the both large party, the Conservative and the Labour Party, they've been consistent in their approach to tackle this problem.
And this bill was actually initially proposed by Our former prime minister, Rishi Sunak.
He suggested that their party, which is not in the government now, which is in opposition, when they will come to power or when they will have next legislation, they will, they will pass this law and
But they couldn't win the election and the Labour Party came into power, but they implemented this policy.
So there is a consensus among and between the political parties that this problem needs to be addressed.
And this is the way forward.
And we can see, in the case of voting on this law, that a large number of uh members of parliament with, with a great majority, they voted in favor of this uh band.
I think that is a 366 to probably about 40 or 41.
So, with that large majority, we we can say that there is a consensus, national consensus, that this is the right way forward.
This is a big problem in the britain and this is a problem which which, which must be addressed and this is the way to address it.
In terms of, for instance revenues, i mean, I think that probably the revenue we generate, or the taxes we generate through smoking industry.
I think they are probably about 8 billion.
And due to reduction in the sales of cigarette, over the years those revenues have declined significantly.
So if it is costing us 80000 deaths, plus 50 billion or more pound every year in terms of economic losses, even if it's bringing seven or eight billion pound in the tax revenue, I think that is still a huge gap between revenues of profit and losses.
I mean, the choice is clear that even economically it is not appropriate to rely on this industry.
We pay a lot more through our health care bill.
And again, I mean, we can't put any number on a human's life.
I think that is precious if we are losing 80,000 people every year due to the smoking.
I think that's something which needs to be addressed.
And there are very other statistics.
For instance, I mean the individual cost a person who is smoking like a 20000 cigarettes a day on average.
That person may spend like close to 5,000 pound every year on smoking.
So it's a huge social, economic cost to the country and the society.
So therefore, I think Professor, a final question I'd like to ask is, briefly do you think it is a legitimate concern that this bill wants becoming effective, might end up incubating a black market for cigarettes?
Briefly,
Yes, that's a very good question.
And I'm afraid that is the risk which it will accompany.
I mean, there is a drug market in Britain.
There are various forms of drugs. which are illegal drugs, which are sold.
And the enforcement of this law.
That would something which also, we will see how it is enforced and how it would be implemented.
There is no doubt that it would discourage people from smoking and overall, on the national level, the smoking would definitely decline further and maybe a day come when we we we have a zero, Zero smoking.
But there is no doubt that it will create opportunity for the people who deal in the illegal drugs trade, that this is a new way to make money.
Your point is well taken and best of luck to Britain.
Professor Muhammad Ali Nasir joining us from Britain's University of Leeds.
That's all the time for this edition of World Today.
I'm Dinghan in Beijing.
Bye for now.
