Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Round Table. You're listening to Round Table with myself, her young.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yu-Shen in the studio.
Coming up, men's fashion is bringing a whole new vibe to women's wardrobes these days, but it's not just about the looks.
Women are turning to men's wear for the comfort and confidence boost it provides, how is gender fluid style empowering women?
And our special segment Motivational Monday coming your way will give you that adrenaline shot for the start of the week.
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Now on Round Table, as we move on to our next topic of discussion today.
From breezy pajama designs to trousers with pockets big enough to hold the world, men's fashion is making waves in women's wardrobes again.
Women are realizing that men's clothing often offers a surprising edge in comfort, practibility, and even affordability.
So let's take a look at what's this recent discovery of apparently some Chinese ladies are rating the men's section.
Yeah, I mean, it's really funny that we were just talking about how school uniforms can just hide the figures of some girls and makes them feel comfortable.
The same is working for the adult clothing world as well, because recently there's been a growing fashion trend over Chinese social media that more female consumers or just ladies who buy their clothes online or offline, they tend to shop for clothes in the menswear category.
And the shift is mainly driven by the ladies discovering that men's clothing not only tends to be more affordable, but also are more practically designed.
For instance, we probably have all watched the comparison between women jeans and men's jeans or jeans designed for men.
For us, there's always smaller pockets that can barely fit in the phone, while for men's jeans, the bigger, deep pockets can literally fill in their lives.
Oh, you can put a sandwich in there.
I know, right? They're car keys, the wallets, the sunglasses, cell phones, everything.
So yeah, it's just now the trend shows that there's a bigger focus for female consumers over practicality when shopping for clothing rather than just merely the style.
What do you think about this?
Well, I think it's important also to make a distinction.
Is it that women are going to men's section to shop male's clothing?
As in these are designed for men?
That's one question. And another question is, oh, is style and design actually evolving to cater towards women's needs in the sense that, oh, now we want functionality on top of looking good, or maybe we value functionality a bit more than the traditional, more fitted styles.
So I wonder which one is going on, or maybe both are going on.
I think both are going on.
This is from WIO News. The market demand for gender neutral fashion, it's rising and it's rising steadily and they project it to be a massive market.
One outlet says an annual growth of 6.5% from 2021 to 2030.
There was another website, and these are all projections, right?
So you'll get different stuff from different outlets.
4.5% annually to reach $3.2 billion by 2028.
So there's a shift in the fashion industry right now, and designers are really responding.
I was looking to Vogue Magazine to see what was going on there.
Vogue is a fashion outlet, and they put on their online magazine.
And they were even talking about a shift in wedding wear, where it was becoming more gender neutral, gender fluid in terms of the designs.
Normally men wear a tuxedo, traditionally women would wear the white dress.
And I was looking at some of the different designs, and it really does blur the lines.
And this is the trend. This is what fashion makers are doing, and they're doing that because the consumers are headed in that direction too.
That's a really good point.
And also I think that just answers to today's women's needs in the sense that who's going to elester load it?
Who's going to invest in a white dress that is often corset-like, that is pristine white, and you can only wear it once in your lifetime?
Or twice, statistics. Yeah, and that's why...
Back. Sorry, that was a joke.
Yeah. It just feels like bad luck if I'm wearing it a second time.
I'm just imagining things.
But that's also just people's perception towards that wedding dress.
So this is a little bit off topic, but made the first Sex in the City movie a big thing back in the day because Carrie Bradshaw was wearing a clear white Yves Saint Laurent tuxedo instead of a huge white dress.
But also given fashion is such a major theme for that franchise, she had other traditional bridal looks anyway.
But yes, I think women have a different view on what we want to wear, what we want to perceive, and how we perceive and feel about ourselves since fashion is so integral to one's identity in interesting ways.
Maybe not everybody feels the same way like that, but if you're a fashionista, you do.
I mean, a lot of times when we look at the gender neutral, the term of gender neutral, we think about the unisex clothes, and that is actually the point of developing such style or say brands, there are certain brands that specifically claiming to be the unisex design.
And the main point is to shift focus from the traditional gender norms or gender roles into just a free expression of individual styles where really how is our styles are shifting these days?
Is women still like you mentioned earlier wearing all that corset or tight, even children-like kind of clothes just to be looking all curving and slim and just to be looking good or do we value practicality and comfort of wearing those clothes?
Yeah. I mean, unisex itself is not a new term.
That's been around for a very, very long time.
I remember back in the 1990s, there were artists, I think Missy Elliott, she's an American rapper, was kind of a representative of unisex clothing.
When you look at certain shoe companies, for example, Converse, Vans, they make shoes that are the same design for women and for men and they have sizes for both sizes of feet, right?
So this isn't necessarily new, but I think what's new is that now more and more people are stepping out of the traditions and out of the cultural stereotypes, I think, that come along with dressing the way that we're supposed to dress.
In MarketWeek.com, there was data collected in 2021 by an outlet called Klarna and this number really surprised me.
36% of American consumers had purchased fashion outside of their gender identity.
That was in America. Sweden, 33% had made a purchase outside their gender identity.
In the UK, 31%. And then if you look at Gen Z specifically, those numbers go up even higher.
So this isn't just a trend here in China.
This isn't an American trend.
This seems to be happening in a lot of countries around the world.
Yeah, and it's not only in the clothing sector alone, but such changing of gender-based spending trend is also shown in, say, jewelry market as a recent UK-based report that I was reading earlier today, discovered that quality jewelry provider Goat Smith has the lowest female spend percentage in the past year until June 2024.
You will expect that women buy most of the jewelry that's out there, but now that there are only 25% of their transaction over this brand in the past year attributed to female consumers.
So the report is also indicating that there's been this trend among male consumers over jewelry and that they tend to spend more time and spend more significantly on jewelry, sometimes twice as much as women.
Oh, really? I don't see much jewelry on Steve right now.
Not a lot of bling. I know, right?
It's doubtably applyable to all male consumers out there.
Well, don't look to me for market trends.
You won't find your answers, I don't think.
It's really interesting that traditionally, ad jewellers is often perceived that men buy jewelry for women.
But in recent years, we've seen this major rise in trend that women are buying jewelry, not accessories, I mean proper jewelry for themselves.
But when it comes to accessories, so these are usually cheaper, more fashionable and don't last as long.
And these are more for just fashion purposes that people would buy.
And certainly there is maybe a growing number of men who are doing this and they're styling themselves with pearls.
And this has been, I think in the last five years or so, a trend that men have been buying pearls are often artificial pearls, but part of sort of mixing a bit of silver or bling with pearls.
And that's a really good luck for men and women, possibly.
Didn't always used to be this way.
Did you know that in America there was a time where it was illegal for women to wear pants?
Oh no, when was that? I mean, it wasn't last week, don't get me wrong.
It was a very, very long time ago.
But if we do want to talk recent times, as recently as 2011 in New York, a person perceived as a male who dressed in clothing customarily designed for women could technically be arrested in New York City.
Technically. Now, that probably wouldn't happen.
But yeah, this goes back to the 1800s.
In Columbus, Ohio, there was an example where there were ordinances where a law forbade a person from appearing in public, this was the wording, quote, in a dress not belonging to his or her sex.
Now, that was the mid 1800s and now we're in 2024.
But you know, there was a time when this was considered socially unacceptable and illegal.
And that's what set the norms, they say, in North American fashion culture where men have to dress like this and women have to dress like this because those laws were put in place and people just accepted it and it just continued on.
Now those times are changing.
It's becoming very, very different.
And Gen Z, they call them spend Z.
They're about to be the largest group of consumers out there and they're telling the fashion industry we want to dress the way we want to dress, not the way you tell us to dress and we're going to see a big shift.
Yes. And if I may offer just a little bit more on fashion history and these are monumental milestone moments in my fashion book that everybody should know.
In 1966, Yves Saint Laurent introduced La Smoking, a tuxedo designed for women which combined elegance with a masculine edge.
And this piece became a symbol of empowerment, allowing women to embrace a powerful androgynous aesthetic look which challenged gender norms in formal wear back in 1966.
And then in 1980s, in the 1980s when women were joining the workforce in swabs around the world, power dressing became a thing and that's the rise of corporate culture that led to the popularity of power suits for women.
Remember those? Oh yeah.
You know those big giant shoulder pads?
Yes. Those things, yeah.
Yes. Often inspired by men's business attire.
And I remember Giorgio Armani was a big pioneer in that regard but look at today, I think, yeah, with fashion houses they really need to roll with the times and reinvent themselves.
And also in the 2000s and that's when I was growing up and getting into fashion streetwear and gender fluidity became a big thing.
We saw women adopting baggy pants, jeans, oversized hoodies and sneakers traditionally associated with men's fashion.
And then 2010s to present we saw tailored menswear and feminine touches which is what still I'm rocking today.
Contemporary fashion continues to embrace menswear inspired design such as tailored suits and blazers, love, trousers and button up shirts often paired with super feminine accessories.
I have them all over my body today and the blending of styles allows women to express their individuality with challenging traditional gender norms.
Alexander McQueen, my love and Balenciaga were the pioneers in this movement.
And then don't forget even before the pandemic, ath leisure became a big thing.
And it was a big talking point for people because you see people wearing those really hugging jeggings or yoga pants paired with maybe hoodies or even a suit or something else but sometimes in the workplace and people were like no, no.
And some were like yes, yes.
And then that became a discussion point and then move on to the pandemic and then suddenly ath leisure is everywhere because sweatpants was the norm and pair that with maybe a power suit and maybe really comfortable clothes or after the pandemic actually paired up with if you're really avant-garde high heels and that became socially acceptable and you're making
a fashion statement. So style and fashion really evolves along the time.
Fashion is fluid as well and it keeps changing and it's not just going from women wanting to dress more comfortably and clothing traditionally designed for men.
Men are challenging stereotypes as well.
Did you see the Barbie movie?
Ah, I see a point. Ken and all of his friends were dressed in pink.
Now there was a time. I remember from my brother-in-law, my sister's husband, I bought him a pink tie in Korea for Christmas.
He lives in Canada and as I was talking to him through video talk I said oh by the way I'll let you know I got you this for Christmas.
I showed him the pink tie.
He said oh, not to be rude but you can keep that.
I'll never wear it. I said why not?
He said well it's pink. I said really?
Really? You won't wear it because it's pink.
Men wearing pink in North America was considered weird.
No way. There was this bravado, there was this macho attitude where though that's for girls, I would never wear that.
That's changing now. And we see examples in pop culture like the Barbie movie where we show young people wear whatever you want.
If you feel confident in it, if you think the colors match your skin tone or whatever, go ahead wear it.
Feel good about yourself.
Well it's funny that we're talking about the movie Barbie because after that movie got viral there's a new meme on social media that I saw that's called confidence.
Confidence. Describing a new confidence among men that is you can wear pink, you can wear something that's traditionally deemed as female style and still feel confident.
I think everybody just wants to feel good at the end of the day.
I think it's a promising contribution headed by Gen Z that was born after 1996 I suppose that they're not taking gender as a burden but actually they're breaking down barriers and experimenting and brands are responding to that which is fantastic.
But also one interesting aspect of our discussion or the phenomenon that we see here in China right now that I find to be interesting is that women are saying that hey, actually going to the men's section, a lot of the times these items are just cheaper and then that is a revelation for people and it's almost like yeah sure I'm just wearing something baggy, why should I
pay more in the female section whereas you know just get it from the guys aisle and that just potentially points to maybe some inequalities in is it the pink tax or is it how price tags have been labeled.
And I'm sure for women out there we don't feel so good about this.
I mean from a manufacturing point of view yes women's clothes tend to get more complex when it comes to making them you know because there's like multiple processes involved in the production of women's clothes including the styling because most designers for women's clothes go for the visual appeal over comfort and practicality so they maybe they tend to add
more decorations on the outside and also the fabric and everything choosing what is best for his or her specific design just to you know create the best shape and also there's multiple samples of such a style or such a shape that's required before the design goes into manufacturing and become real close.
So adding all that up it takes longer and it becomes more costly for the factory to produce like women's clothes and in comparison men's production for clothing is just less complex because there's basic designs and fixed sizes for choices and yeah in every way it's just much more simplified.
I have major questions for that argument actually.
I do. So does the young consumer these days.
And if you have something you want to say about this if you have some opinions and ideas you'd like to share with us please send us an email or a voice memo to roundtablepodcastatqq.com.
Coming up next Motivational Monday.
Steve what do you have for us.
Very short and sweet today.
The elevator in this building often inspires me because in the elevator in this building you can see people from all around the world.
There are expat guests who come to work here full time but also who just come here as a one off to visit and there are many many many languages being spoken in the elevators all the time.
Sometimes I recognize the languages sometimes I don't but I just think it's such and I was reminded of this this morning there were three different languages being spoken in the elevator at the same time and I just love people seeing people from different cultures using different languages conversing with each other asking questions getting to know each other
better fantastic. Makes you feel good.
What about the world and what do you have for us.
My Motivational Monday say kick is that I joined a September fitness challenge that's under the name sweat timber surge.
Sweat timber. Yeah. Well you can tell what it's for from the name that in the next 30 days the group is aimed to become become part of this community where everybody just log in and share what they're doing fitness wise in the group including you know how many say kettlebells you've swung today what gym session you did leg or arm or stuff like that to everybody else in the team
so it's just a community that I joined newly joined that I feel very much encouraged.
Cool. Great. What a wonderful thing to share.
Yes and it's the first day of school a fresh start full of possibilities if you've listened to the first topic of today's discussion and starting something new can feel overwhelming but every step you take whether it's meeting new people getting used to your classes or just finding your rhythm is progress and this goes for all of us not just students whether you're
stepping into a new job tackling a fresh project or just trying to balance family and your job and life remember that progress isn't always about giant leaps it's about these little wins like learning something new finishing that tough task or even just getting through the day with a smile so take a deep breath keep pushing forward and know that each small step is bringing
you closer to where you want to be you're doing better than you think just keep going and you don't have to see the whole staircase just to take the first step Jordan Sparks is here to remind us that sometimes we've got to take things one step at a time and it might feel like we should be sprinting towards our goals but slow and steady wins the race right every little step
forward counts and don't rush the journey try to enjoy it here's Jordan Sparks one step at a time and actually there's a lot more to talk about about this song because we've seen that you know Steve when so many times in life let's say today for the show and doing the whole thing sometimes can be a little bit daunting it's like putting the whole thing together getting
the sound bites ready and then you know who's gonna be on the show the lineup can always can be confusing there's so many moving pieces behind the scene but you know what with one little step at a time with one little maneuver we do and with you making that one really amazing argument I have something to follow up with and that's how we do things isn't it exactly one step
at a time that's how we should live our lives not just you know thinking about doing one show to the next or maybe one fashion item to the next but yeah just taking life as it comes and slowing down and enjoying the pace and sometimes we listen to music to motivate us to do that and Jordan Sparks former American Idol contested by the way Jordan Sparks yeah she'll remind
us of that during this track yes absolutely and here's Jordan Sparks one step at a time and you'll make this year your best one yet that brings us to the end of today's roundtable thank you so much Steve and you Shan for joining the discussion I'm her young have a beautiful day everybody we'll see you next time
