Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
Hello everybody welcome to Roundtable.
I'm Hye young. In today's show and a few to come, we're shining a light on a new generation of women making their mark across different fields.
They're thoughtful, driven, and charting new paths in a rapidly changing world.
Today we're I'm joined by Songqiao Yao, founder and CEO of Wildbound, a Beijing based venture that weaves nature inspired education with sustainability consulting.
Songqiao, welcome to Round Table.
Thank you. Really nice to be here.
I noticed that your title at Wildbound, your company, is Chief Explorer.
Now that's not something we hear every day.
We've got CEOs, CFOs, but Chief Explorer.
Erika, that sounds bold, fun and deeply intentional.
So what does that role mean to you and how do you embody it in your work?
I think naturally I have a spirit of exploration and so much of Wildbound when we started, were trying to take people on these adventures and exploration.
And the exploration not only of nature of wilderness, but also of our inner landscape.
So throughout our experiences, interacting with nature, we can also change ourselves.
And then as someone who started Wellbound, I have to embody that spirit.
So there is a constant exploration, discovery, and learning that happens in my role.
So that's why this is the title, because I didn't want to just be an executive or manager.
I actually want to lead, to inspire, and to support the people we serve.
in this experience of exploration together.
And could you tell us a little bit more about Wildbound?
It's described as an innovative, nature -inspired education and sustainability consulting venture.
Could you walk us through the kind of work you do and how you bridge education, business, and all this environmental stuff?
Yeah, sure. It's been a story of eight years already.
But essentially before I started Wildbound, I actually just graduated from business school, but I was selected to be a expedition with 77 women scientists from all over the world to Antarctica.
And after the expedition, I also stayed on.
So altogether spent about four months going back between South America and Antarctica.
And that four months was very formative for me.
And I felt like I received this calling from when I was in Antarctica, that you need to support more people to have experiences like this.
So when I started Wildbound, we were very focused on creating experiences in the wilderness and supporting people to go through a journey where they learned about nature and they witness the impacts of climate change.
And they are also in that open space where they can actually really connect with nature.
yeah, we went through the COVID years of no travel.
So basically in those years, the people who have gone with us to Antarctica, and these include students, teachers, business people, they came back to us and said, in this time of great uncertainty, how can we transition?
And so then from then on, we started more system level, this consulting and transformation work.
So we have worked with schools and with businesses to adopt sustainability strategy and transform their whole business to be more environmental friendly to be more connected to nature.
And nowadays we also support different communities of educators of architects and designers of businesses that are adopting a regenerative approach. So we're not even satisfied with sustainability because that's just maintaining the status quo.
We want to create value from the very beginning.
So this new model of regenerating which also meant that wellbound has been regenerating a few times.
So now we still focus on those deep experience curation, but we also support communities of regeneration.
We support these communities to come up with projects, to learn together, and these different networks also intersect.
So, yeah, there's a lot of creativity and adaptability in the work we do.
And we work in China, but also in Southeast Asia.
And last year we also started a small office in London.
Alright, well it is a fascinating blend just by what you are speaking to us about and bringing together nature, education, community, strategy, and so many things.
And you've traveled to over 60 countries, including 16 expeditions to Antarctica.
That's a remarkable amount of ground and ice covered.
What fuels your passion for exploration and how has it shaped your perspective on life, leadership, your company, and I suppose the planet?
Yes, so a lot of these exploration are related to the work I did in environmental protection.
So they were visits to big rivers supporting agricultural projects and going to see impacts of climate change on local community.
So I really realized that throughout my career in environmental protection, I worked in NGOs, I worked in policy, in research, it is through these experiences that I learned.
So what filled it was this deep connection and curiosity about what is going on in our world and I think the firsthand witness of some of the beauty, but also some of the destruction that's happening to nature has fueled this passion for working to protect nature.
So I think there's, yeah, there's a lot of places and I feel very privileged to have visited, and I think they, again, and again, it comes back to the same message that we're not separated from the rivers, the deserts, the rainforest, and there's a deep connection between what we're doing now and how the planet is at the moment.
So I really, you know, through Worldbound, that I wish more people from China can have similar experiences.
But even if it's it doesn't have to be Antarctica, even if it's a small patch of nature, even if it's just the birds that, you know, come from Australia to Beijing every year, these patterns and these beauty of nature, which is a part of like this bigger network that we're in.
So, yeah, so I think the exploration supports the care and the care supports the action.
and then the action will take more people on those connections again.
Yeah. The way you put it really sheds some new light for me on the thought of travel.
What you say is so deeply connected with nature and it's not sort of just an escape from your everyday routine, but you go and it's almost like a form of listening to nature, to landscapes, to people maybe even to ourselves I mean in recent years I think a lot of us can resonate with we really need in nature and we can't be cooped up inside for too long from founding a company to trekking through uncharted terrains these are easy paths and not everyone dares to take them in your view what unique strengths and perhaps challenges do women bring to roles like yours in leadership, and entrepreneurship.
I agree that to start anything, there's a lot of uncertainty.
And I think to run a company that's quite unique, that's not a conventional business model, requires a lot of adaptation.
I think women have a natural way of relational strength, so we're good at relating, we're good at telling stories.
and I think particularly for me, the way that we work is also by going into a system, going into a community, going into nature and first build connection and then trying to really understand the need and respond to the needs and working with other people in collaboration and this is very different from the traditional business of opening a new field, setting up a model, multiplying and scaling And to be honest, I don't really agree with that as the only way of success and of doing things.
And actually that has caused a lot of destruction to nature.
And we often say that, you know, we call Mother Earth, not father earth.
Right. So we think about nature almost as a feminine being.
And we fail to give the care that mother nature have been giving us every day, even though there's pollution, even though there's destruction.
We still have fresh air every day.
We still have birds and trees and nature still is supporting for us.
So in a way, this hopeful, this caring nature is what the planet offers us.
And I think as women, when we pay attention to how that's the way to respond to challenges we have, to difficult issues that can arise especially between people, I think the way to interact and to really show up with intention and with deep care.
At least that's how I've tried to do it.
Not saying that it's not difficult.
There's been many challenging moments but I think women are also quite resilient because we have endured a lot, you know, our ancestors, our grandparents, our grandmothers, our mothers, there is a lot of hardship that women can go through but still carry wisdom that could be passed on.
So women are usually holders of communities, of traditions, of wisdom.
And what you do is very innovative.
Certainly it's charting new paths, I believe.
It's very different from what you usually expect from a startup.
Would you categorize yourself as a startup or consultancy or if you had to use one word, what would that be actually?
I think we're a lab.
I love that idea. Could you elaborate on it a little bit?
Why would you call it a lab?
Because we're constantly, as I mentioned, exploring and experimenting and testing.
We do not hold on to anything that we come up with.
For example, we have worked with businesses that have transformed and went on a sustainability journey.
We don't necessarily want to do that for 100 companies.
is if this company can influence 10, then we support them to go with it.
You know, and we have supported schools in China to be more sustainable, to be sustainable, but we don't want to just be a consultancy and say, okay, now we're going to patent, this is our approach, we want to open it so more people can have it.
I think because we constantly love to innovate and learn and improve, and that's better for us as a lab and keep small and to actually be always on the edge of learning and innovating.
Yeah. And you also mentioned that you bring people to the wild right on expeditions as well.
So I think that's not what I would usually associate with a lab.
But there is this outdoorsy side of what you do, and it's a direct encounter with nature.
Yeah, the lab is not inside the building.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you've got to think outside of the box in that one.
See with these wonderful ideas and, sort of, experiments, in a way, on how to do these things, do you ever feel that you as a woman may be trying to secure funding or selling the idea, communicating with clients, do you ever feel there are challenges?
might that have something to do with gender?
I'm just curious to hear your perspective.
Absolutely. I think gender is the lens that you can choose to to put on, and even in the field of nature environmental protection, there's a lot of women working in this field.
I think the majority of people who work in the social sector are women, but the decision -makers are often men and the maybe come from European, US even more developed countries and the way that international norm or convention is organised is still based on particular structures that really speaks more to our current state of the world, which is capitalistic and it's patriarchal.
So of course I think especially when I was just starting off I could see that there was a lot of requirements or requests for how to do things in a particular way, and often like the mainstream way.
But I do think these eight years of experience have taught me to be more confident because I have been more agile and adaptable.
Because I you know, if I followed some investors who questioned me in the first three years of Wildbound, we would have completely collapsed during COVID because there was time period of no travel.
and if we completely became a consultancy and really relied on talents then we are not able to respond to the needs right now of a very different geopolitical landscape and a difficult economic climate.
So I think actually by being more adaptable, being more open I have been able to challenge the mainstream.
And I realized that a lot of the leaders and decision -makers are also in deep worry because a lot of the big systems these days are being challenged.
And there is no way to save it almost in the traditional, in the old way.
So I feel like yes, there are challenges, but the challenges comes when you are trying to match what is required of you.
But when you offer a new path, then it's not a challenge, it's a new perspective.
But sometimes being a little bit older now and having more experiences gives me no more advantage in trying to provide that different solution.
I think for a few years earlier when I was just starting off and when I was younger it was harder but this is all part of the journey.
Many of the successful women I've spoken with often mentioned that they'd rather be recognized as capable professionals, leaders, and experts.
Not female ones. So a capable CEO for example not necessarily a female CEO, yet gender still shapes experiences.
And how do you see this tension or do you feel this tension?
Has it shown up in your journey, and how have you navigated it?
I was talking to a female leader I really admire a few weeks ago, and she said to me that she doesn't want to be a male CEO in a female body.
And I think a lot of the times is when we talk about, oh, I just want to be seen as a capable CEO, but what is the capable CEO in everyone's perspective?
And I think a good leader should demonstrate both masculine and feminine qualities, but so much of what we see in the world, the men, the leaders are more masculine, right?
And they're usually like very strong, they have a clear agenda, they're persuasive, they're charismatic but we don't celebrate enough the caring, the relational, the deeply human aspect of that and I understand people who say I don't want to be called the female CEO or the female scientist or the female explorer because that's almost disqualifying me because because I am women I'm able to be celebrated but I'm actually as capable.
But I want to suggest that maybe another way of thinking it is what more advantage I can bring to the table as a female leader, and because I am a female leader, there's maybe more people who feel comfortable talking to me, there's more communities that I'm holding, there's more creative ways I'm providing.
So I feel like not really just stuck in, getting stuck on the term of how one should be called, but actually in thinking through what are the qualities you bring in leadership, then I think women have a lot to provide value for this whole field.
And I feel like that's sometimes not talked about or not recognized.
And I actually but I think these feminine leadership qualities can really support the challenges we're facing today.
I think what you're alluding to is something very complicated.
I do agree that there are so many female let's just say quote unquote female qualities traditional believed as feminine that are not really prioritized or given the positive visibility sometimes in the professional world when these are actually very essential for good leadership.
But sometimes in let's say the media or how the public views a female who's very successful standing out in her particular field Because the female tag almost shadows everything else, and then I understand that the person, the individual who works so hard to get to that place feels almost as if, you know, my worth is not being seen and you're only seeing me as a woman.
And I can understand how frustrating that could be.
Yeah, I understand that.
And I think it's, yeah, it's sad that we use this term in that way.
You know, even talking about a female scientist or a female CEO, you're still downplaying the feminine, right?
Because you're still thinking that yeah, it's that overshadows.
But what is overshadowing?
So I feel like it's the qualities that enable the success is...
has both masculine and feminine and has the capability.
But I also feel like we cannot, we cannot kind of delete different parts of our being to say, you know, I am an un -gendered person who just is.
And that's just not who we are.
Yeah, and that's really against nature.
Yeah, so we recognize the whole person rather than just the female or just just a male or just the scientist. Yeah i see what you mean and do you see giving back as part of your responsibility as a founder especially someone who's had access to global education and experiences in your view what's one meaningful way young professionals can contribute to the world around them, giving back to society.
Yeah, I think the whole premise of starting Wildbound was an act of service, a contribution to to human and to our connection to nature.
And i don't think there's a limitation on age or experience to give back.
I think There's a lot of small gestures of kindness, of care, of giving back than people can do.
So even as young professionals, when you're just starting off, you can support the community around you.
You could be engaged in causes that's not exactly your professional work.
You can support young people.
You can try to open up new ways of seeing the world.
So there's multiple ways.
and I do think nature is reciprocal and reciprocity is part of our nature as well.
And when we're learning, when we're receiving, then we're also giving back.
When I was younger, a lot of older professionals, like mentors, they would support me.
And then when I ask, how can I pay it back to them, they always say, pay it forward. So I always say that to young people, that when you receive support, then you pay it forward. And in that way, we start this virtuous loop of creating support and care all around us.
For young people out there or just folks out there who are still figuring out their passions, maybe they're unsure of their direction or hesitant to dream big or really commit to the action of following that dream, what would you offer?
How can they build courage and clarity to turn passion and the dream into purpose?
Yeah, I think young people today are under a lot of pressure to find their direction and to know what their passion is and to realize that at a young age, and they have this...
I think they're fed a myth that everyone should know what they're doing and start committing in their twenties and then be very successful in their thirties and I don't think that's true for most human being in history.
I think my good years are yet to come.
I really feel like, you know, by the age 50 or 60 we will really be able to crystallize our experience and our wisdom to share but I still think that in all of these younger years it is really important to really commit and be intentional and care about the things that you're doing and not waiting around for the passion and for the dream.
But when you have a dream, when you have a spark and a passion, it's really important to act on it, talk to people about it, write about it, test and do a small experiment and to keep going because young people have a lot of energy and it's really important to channel this energy into action, into movement, into interactions with other people rather than boxing it in and turning it inward into difficult, you know, kind of internal conflict and struggles.
But it takes time, so at the beginning of a journey, we often don't know where we're going and what this whole journey is about, but it will gently, gradually unfold itself.
So, I think young people can have the faith and ask, sometimes you can also ask your older self to come and support you.
you know, imagine when you're a 50 year old, when you're 90 year old, even when you're a thousand year old, what advice you would give to yourself and you have all that strength and that power within you to to find your dream, to realize your passion.
You've given us a lot to think about from finding direction through exploration, possibly to building work that reflects what you care about in this fast -moving world.
It's reassuring to hear how purpose and pace don't have to be at odds.
And thank you for sharing your insight.
Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, I agree that, you know, depending on the purpose, you can choose the pace that most suits you.
You know, some glaciers, the icy Antarctica took 30 million years to form.
It's not a short amount of time, but it has accumulated a history and a wisdom that a human lifespan cannot comprehend fully.
So I think I agree in this fast -paced world, we don't have to be carried by the whirlwind.
And there's a deep knowing and there's intentionality that could ground us and support us and truly bring out everyone's gifts to the world.
Thank you so much, Songtiao, for speaking with me and thank you for being on Roundtable.
Thank you. Really, really happy to be here.
Thank you very much.
