Hey everyone, it's Anna.
Before we start the show, I want to ask you a question.
And please, don't be offended if it sounds a little direct, okay?
Here goes.
Are money issues affecting your relationship?
Money can be awkward and sensitive to talk about.
How much to save, how much to spend, who makes the decisions about what.
But if you're not talking about money, it can cause even bigger problems.
We have an episode coming up soon where I'll be talking to Ramit Sethi.
He hosted the Netflix show How to Get Rich.
He's written books on personal finance and he's especially good at helping couples resolve their differences around money and start to actually enjoy talking about it.
If this sounds like something you want to be a part of, please send us a short voice memo.
Tell us about a moment you and someone you loved had tension around money.
It could be your partner.
It could be a family member.
Tell us what happened to set it off, what you said to each other or didn't say, and how you felt about all of it.
We might play your voice on the show and hear Ramit's advice on what you can do differently.
Please email your voice memo to modernlovepodcast at nytimes.com by November 3rd.
There's instructions in our show notes.
Please check those out.
All right, here's today's episode.
Love now and always.
The love was stronger than anything.
And I love you more than anything.
There's still love.
From The New York Times, I'm Anna Martin.
This is Modern Love.
WNBA Finals just ended and a lot of my friends are really jealous of me because today I'm talking to one of the breakout stars of the 2025 season, Natasha Cloud.
Natasha is one of New York Liberty's powerhouses.
She's outspoken.
She's got immense amounts of swag.
And she's really freaking good at basketball.
Thank you so much for having me. who she really is.
Natasha Cloud, welcome to Modern Love.
Thank you for having me.
Do you prefer Tosh?
Everyone calls you Tosh.
I don't know you so well yet.
What do you like?
You can call me Tosh, Tasha.
Natasha is really like for my mama.
And when she calls me Natasha, I'm like, oh shit, what did I do?
You're a new New Yorker.
What's your go-to bodega order?
Oh.
I'm very basic with my food, but I love me a good bacon, egg, and cheese with the double cheese.
Make that bacon extra crispy because I don't want no fat on that.
Any sauce, ketchup, hot sauce?
No.
I like a little hot sauce, but honestly, I'm a grape jelly girl.
I know.
I...
On the bacon, egg, and cheese?
Listen, don't knock it until you try it.
Wait, I really don't like that.
No, I'm telling you, you can't knock it until you try it.
Because the salty and the sweet?
Yeah, I'll tell you, it balances so well.
Don't overdo it with the jelly, just a little bit.
And you're putting it in the sandwich, you're not dipping it in.
I'm not dipping it.
I'm putting a little bit on, smacking that sandwich down, busting that bitch down.
I have never heard of this.
This could be an innovation.
That's crazy.
Let me put you on.
Let me bring the Philly to New York.
This is the Tosh sandwich.
You get it named after you.
This is the clown.
My God.
That's the clown.
That's the clown.
You are the first athlete I've ever interviewed.
Stop.
I'm honored.
I'm honored.
It is funny to me that we've never had an athlete on, because we're a show about love and relationships.
And it strikes me that relationships between teammates are incredibly close can sometimes be complicated.
Let's situate you in your role on your team.
You're a point guard.
You know, when I think about sort of hard things that a team goes through collectively, I think of losses.
Mm-hmm.
Sorry to say this, but it is true.
Yeah, we were sad girls.
Yeah, you were sad girls.
We were sad girls.
You were out of the playoffs in the first round.
I wonder, like, how do you, as a leader on the team, how do you handle losses?
Ooh, I'm a sore loser.
I feel like you don't get to your level without being a sore loser.
Yeah, like, I truly hate losing.
It could literally be an Uno game.
Like, Izzy kicks my ass in Uno all the time.
Is he your girlfriend?
We'll talk about it.
Yes, y'all, don't play her in Uno.
She be acting like this cute little sweet, ooh, I don't know what I'm doing, and then boom, Uno out.
And I'm like, what the fuck you mean you out?
We just started.
So I'm super competitive.
I will say that the accountability factor, even for myself, is like...
When adversity hits and there's always like ebbs and flows of a season is I have to remain more consistent.
Even in my frustrations of like.
I don't feel like we're playing, playing well, we're not gelling, we're not what is going like.
I'll be frustrated.
And then those moments, the accountability for me for next year is to be more consistent.
Tell me what that looks like for you.
And we throw around this term embodied, but let's say you're feeling really fired up.
You're like pissed about a loss, whatever.
What do you do to calm yourself down specifically?
Is it like you close your eyes, you take a breath?
Like what's your method?
I'm a big, like, I'm going to go throw some shit first.
So I'm going to remove myself from the actual team setting.
I'm probably going to go into like our weight room and I'm going to throw like a medicine ball or something.
Out of me.
I need to do that.
Wait, can we both do that?
Yes.
Three, two, one.
Ah!
Oh, shit.
I needed that, actually.
Thank you.
Yeah, sometimes it's just like good.
You just got to do it.
You just got to get it out.
No medicine ball in the studio right now.
No medicine ball.
All right, keep going.
The walls look really nice in here, so we ain't trying to pay.
They're pretty new.
Okay, so you throw the medicine ball.
Then what do you do?
So like inhale for six, hold for one, exhale for seven, to regulate my body and my nervous system, like meditation.
And then I'll go back in.
And if I feel like I have to get into us a little bit, I will.
But it will be in a very calm demeanor.
But there's a lot of times of like, it's not just solely on me.
I have a whole team behind me.
So there'll be moments where I'll do that and I'll come back in the locker room and I'll just sit and I'll wait for a Sab to say something.
I'll wait for Stewie or JJ.
Because it's collaborative.
As the point guard, I talk enough.
The ball is always in my hands.
I'm always directing and pointing.
And so sometimes it is good for me just to sit back and shut the fuck up too.
It sounds like these are skills you had to learn.
You were maybe not this way.
No.
When you were younger.
No.
Is there a story you can share of young Tosh in sports or not, sort of experiencing an adversity or a hardship and how you reacted with that fire?
Sort of the older, the younger version of you, I mean.
Um man, I feel like I'm about to go deep with this question, but I think the very beginning for me and my story is that my mom is my real mom.
My dad would technically be my stepdad, but that's not who he is to me.
That is my real father, the man that took me in and raised me and gave me everything that I needed to be successful in life.
And the same with my mom, you know.
If you're cool with it, I want to sort of break down what you're talking about.
You were raised by who and where?
Emily and Sharon Cloud in Broomall, Pennsylvania, right outside of Philadelphia.
An all-white family.
I'm the only one of mixed race in my family.
Even just going back this weekend for a funeral seeing my whole family, it's just like man.
I literally am the black sheep.
But I will say in my family's defense like I truly never felt different in my family and so I I was so innocent and people really get tickled by this one, like I tell them.
But I'm like I was like 11, like when I was like oh, I'm blackity black.
Because my dad, he actually tans.
Like, I'm not even playing.
Like, we would be the same color.
And I'm like, oh, I just keep it for the duration.
That's just a year round thing for me.
Yeah.
That shows how innocent children truly are.
And we teach them what they fully believe later in life, because I would have never known that I was any bit different, because my family never treated me differently.
And how did your mom or your dad or your siblings back when you were 11, before you, sort of clocked that you were different?
Like how did they did they talk about?
About you and your relation to the family?
It was like not an exception at all, just something you didn't speak about.
It was just like, this is our family.
This is what our family looks like.
And this is, I've never, like me and my siblings are technically half siblings.
None of us would ever say that.
But at the time, too, you didn't know.
I didn't know.
I didn't know.
And so you know, it comes to the point where, like you as a kid, start getting curious and you're intrigued and you're starting to see how, like again, the outside world is treating you.
So shout out to my mom for the relationship that we do have, that I was even comfortable to just be like.
What's going on?
So, like, I can literally tell you when I asked her, how I asked her.
Please, if you want to, I would love to know.
Yeah, we were just on the way to Blockbuster, and I was like, man, like...
What is this?
Like, why do I look different than our family?
I think I was like 12, for real.
And my mom was just like, I mean, she just kind of laid it out for me, like...
This is what happened.
You know, it was a tough time in our marriage.
With her and your dad.
Yeah, this is what happened.
And I made a decision that, you know, I take full responsibility of.
And she was like your dad was amazing because the moment I told him yes, he's hurt as a man, he's hurt emotionally.
And what was the decision?
Did she tell you, like, I had an affair?
How did she say it?
Yeah, she essentially said it in like what a strong woman to just be like man.
This is what it is when our kid is asking her.
And there wasn't, like, any... secrets from my mom about the situation.
The only thing that I not really appreciated that my mom did this in hindsight, of like.
When you're 18, I will tell you his name.
I will tell you everything.
The man who is your biological father.
Yeah, my sperm donor.
And whenever, like when you're 18 and you're of age and you can make, like that adult decision of whether you want to go look for him or not.
That will be like I will tell you when your 18th birthday immediately.
And I was like, OK, I respect that.
Obviously, I was left with like a lot of questions.
Oh, my God.
How are you supposed to?
Yeah.
I remember going home and just being like, so he didn't want me.
That's essentially what it comes down to.
Right?
And you're a kid that's like, well, at least I'm wanted in this home.
So even from like a young kid, I knew...
My dad took care of everything that I ever needed.
He's given me everything that I've ever needed.
So there's no need to go look for this sperm donor.
I don't have a want to.
And so when I was 18 and my mom, like I remember coming down for school while I was in my Catholic school outfit.
And she was like, do you want to know?
A few years later, you were 18, and it was the time, yeah, you could ask this question.
Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, I want to know.
And she told me he lived a town over.
His son was super athletic, played football at a local school.
And it's like crazy because it's like, I know you saw my name.
I know you saw my mom's name in that paper.
I know you saw my dad's name in that paper.
Because by this point, you were super successful.
I'm super successful.
I'm playing at all local schools.
I'm in the newspaper constantly.
So I'm like, I know you are seeing me.
Wow.
And my mom was like, what do you want to do?
And I was like, I just wanted to know.
Like that for me was the, I think, final like chapter close to me is like I just wanted to know his name.
I wanted to know where he was from.
I wanted to know just about him.
And that was to the extent that I ever wanted to know him.
I didn't ever feel like I needed to go and be like, This is who the fuck I am.
This is who you left.
You don't deserve.
You don't deserve to know me.
You don't deserve to even sit down in front of me.
You don't deserve that.
I don't even know what I would call it.
Like that privilege to me, to my energy and to who ML Cloud raised me to be.
You don't get that.
And Sharon.
So yeah, that was...
I think that was like my first I would say adversity in life, but it literally has shaped me and molded me into who I am who, why I am the way I am.
And especially in my activism, like I've had to deal with my own siblings voting for Trump.
When you need to navigate and talk to fucking frustrating-ass people, I've done it in my own family.
I've had people that have been like, you're racist.
I'm like, in an all-white family?
You don't know me.
I'm just thinking about.
It's so vivid in your mind, it's clear, you know, on the way to Blockbuster, coming down the stairs, and you're Catholic, there are these moments in your life that are burned into your brain.
These like pivotal moments.
And I'm so struck that your first reaction was, wasn't rage, as we spoke about.
It was love for your mom and love for your dad.
Absolutely.
And I don't.
I just want to call out, like I don't think, that I've heard stories about people realizing, you know, maybe their parent wasn't who they thought they were.
That is not a reaction that everyone has.
Immediate compassion.
For your parents, for your mom who made this choice.
Understanding of even what it means as a 33-year-old that has been in relationships, and how hard relationships are to maintain, to commit to, to withstand all the trials and tribulations of it.
Like I understand my mom more so now as an adult too, which is like really cool.
But yeah, even from a young time, I think like, I've always been rooted in love.
Even my dad to take me in as his own, that's rooted in love.
You keep saying that.
I mean, that's another remarkable aspect of this story.
What a good fucking man.
I mean, and did she share with you when you were young, sort of what that conversation between them was like, if there even was a conversation?
I mean, she had to tell him.
Well, that's also true.
A, she's pregnant.
And B, this baby going to come out a little bit brown.
So we got to tell them.
You're right.
Bad question on my part.
To be honest with him.
I commend her for that, for even being able to sit down and have that conversation.
But she even told me, without hesitation, he was like...
Man to see how much my dad loves my mom even despite all that, how much he loved me and my siblings.
I'm one of five.
So like I truly never, ever needed anything else besides him.
I feel wholeheartedly rooted in that.
Can I ask you like did you ever have a conversation with your dad about what this meant to you and your relationship?
Honestly, no, because my dad is, like, such a simple man.
Even when, like...
Like I remember having to tell my mom that I was gay and I like was crying and sobbing, and I was like, and she was like why are you crying?
I'm like, I don't fucking know.
This is a lie.
I don't even feel like I should have to fucking come home and tell you that I'm dating a girl.
I feel like I should be able to bring my person home.
And that'd be normalized.
But even like with that, I never told my dad I was gay.
I literally just brought my girlfriend home and he was like, it's nice to meet you.
Like my dad is like truly the most simple.
Everyone that meets him, he looks like the old man from Up.
Oh my.
He is like the sweetest hearted.
Everyone loves talking to him.
Everyone, random ass strangers.
So like, this is just who my dad is.
He really wants my mom to retire.
And he was just like, I'm like, what does that mean?
Like, what, what do you need?
Cause they don't ever ask for anything.
Like they won't even let me take over the fucking phone bill.
You're still on the family plan?
I'm still on the family plan.
That is so cute.
It's like my mom finally... I think she kind of forgot.
And I hope she don't listen to this.
And I hope it doesn't remind her.
Don't send her this part.
And I'm like, I'm 33.
I've played in this here 10 years.
I can fucking afford the...
And it was like the first time he's ever been like, I just want your mom to retire and like be good.
So this is what she needs.
I was like, okay, I can do that.
I'm like, what do you need?
And he like starts tearing up.
I'm like, don't fucking cry.
Cause I'm going to fucking cry.
He's like, I don't need anything.
I just want your mom taken care of.
I'm like, I'm like, I'm going to cry now.
I'm like, man, you have given me a life that I couldn't even dream of.
You took me in as your own when you didn't have to.
And I think navigating a world full of men that aren't of quality, it shows how rare he is.
And so, like, I do want to take care of him, too.
I do want to take care of my parents so much.
And I think every kid should.
I want them to have experiences that we never had as kids because we couldn't afford to.
And that I can give them now.
And even for my parents to still be so proud and not want to take from their kids.
I think it's really rare.
And especially in our profession too, you have families that bleed people out of their contracts.
You have families that just take advantage of players and use them as like a cash cow.
My family has never taken anything from me.
I truly have the best parents in the world.
Even my siblings that vote for fucking Trump.
Like, y'all irritate my fucking ass, but...
I know that if I ever needed to be defended or they needed to step in for me, they would.
And I think that's what it comes down to is just like everything that I do is rooted in love, because everything that I've ever known has been rooted in love.
We'll be right back.
You learn this... You learn the name, let's say, of your sperm donor, as you call him, at 18.
Yes.
Which is such an intense time because you're going off to college.
Yeah.
And I wonder, like, once you got to college, were you, like...
Oh, my God, I need to make black friends.
Like, how were you thinking about your identity as you moved on to that?
But I wanted to know, like, I wasn't, I grew up in a white family.
I went to all like really good schools, but predominantly white schools in a predominantly white area.
So I wasn't really, I didn't get to experience what my blackness meant.
Yeah.
And so my first college was University of Maryland.
Mm-hmm.
And when I tell you, the thing that I love most and still to this day about UMD is the diversity that is on campus.
And I've, as an 18-year-old, just like excited to get out of the house and move a little bit away and to really just dive into who is Tosh.
Like, who am I?
It was the most amazing thing to me as a young mixed girl to finally just be engulfed in such beautiful blackness.
And like, it wasn't even like my teammates that I really hung out with.
It was the track girls.
It was the football guys.
It was like the other teams around campus that really just like man, I'm indebted to them and they don't even know it of like how much they allowed me to find I knew the white side.
I didn't know that black side yet.
I think before I got to Maryland, I was like, I'm a mixed kid.
I'm a mixed kid.
That's who I am and that's who I identify with because I didn't know that other side.
And so when I finally had my blackness it was the first time after that first year at Maryland I was like I'm really fucking proud to be a black woman.
I am really fucking proud to be a black woman.
And I still have to obviously like.
It doesn't take anything away from me being proud to be mixed, because I think that's also important to who I am.
And that's why I talk so much because...
I might be biased, but I think being a mixed kid and not fitting in with any other group is one of the hardest fucking kids to be.
And so I hope in even me just talking about being mixed that...
One mixed kid goes home and is like I feel seen and I feel validated in whatever questions I have, whatever insecurities I have, whatever.
I can start to navigate this.
And if I can get one kid to do that, that's an ultimate win for me.
What was that like?
Like, how did you coming into your identity interact with your family relationships?
Yeah, I think it took them just a second to like, oh, this is Tosh.
Like this is new Tosh that went off to college.
That's an adult that's figuring out and navigating her life and who she is.
My crash outs are all validated and backed by facts and truth.
And so like, yeah, I think I came back like a little bit radical too.
My parents are, like, and this is why I love it about my parents too and why I love them down bad.
Like, even things that they might not understand, necessarily understand as two white parents.
They meet me always.
They literally will allow themselves to hear me and to move with me.
It means the world to me.
And I've said that to him as of like late too, of like, you know, I really do appreciate that.
You might not understand my walk of life, but you understand that I'm yours.
So it is your job to walk this life with me.
I think that's really important.
I think a lot of even kids.
It's an underrated thing for me to go home and even tell my family I'm gay and not have one person say shit about it.
We're talking about you coming into your identity when it comes to your race.
Yeah.
You're also talking about coming out.
Oh, I was faking being straight for years.
It was so annoying.
It was so annoying.
Can you, I mean, if you wanted to talk about that, what does that mean?
So it's like when you were growing up you were like having crushes on boys or what you were saying you did.
So I still tell you this as a 33-year-old if a fine-ass man walks by this room, I'm going to be like he fine, so I can like you can appreciate it.
You're saying I appreciate it, but all the other shit that comes with y'all I do not, I can't, I can't.
But for a while, and I tried, I did, I really did try, Did you?
I mean it's funny, because these things sort of are.
Maybe it's like when you were young, did you like have boyfriends?
I mean, what was it?
Okay, yeah.
Yeah.
Y'all, I didn't start messing with women until I was, like, 23, 24.
And so up until that point, no, I was only with men.
I had, like, this childhood sweetheart since sixth grade till, I would say...
Freshman year of college, that was my person.
And he sucked.
No, I'm just playing.
We're actually like still really cool as a kid now and everything.
I was going to say.
We were best friends when we were growing up and stuff.
So like it just made sense.
When did you realize you were queer or interested?
I always thought women were beautiful.
Right.
I always would be like, oh, she's absolutely gorgeous or whatever.
I don't think that I was ready to navigate that space until I figured out who I was as a human being and to feel very secure in that, to take that step.
So when I got to the league and this is one thing that does piss me off this league don't turn people gay.
Like, you don't turn people gay.
It's in you.
It's innately in you.
It is in you.
So when I got to this league, it didn't turn me gay, but I was surrounded by...
Strong powerful badass independent, outspoken women that were so unapologetic about who they were, how they show up, what their families look like.
And I was like, man, I feel empowered to just... be in this locker room and not be judged.
Yeah, I just, I dived into it.
I was like, oh shit, I kind of like it over here.
And I was still playing that middleman for like three years.
Yeah, you came out as bi publicly at least.
You were bi for, yeah, yeah.
And I said I was bi.
And I didn't mean that shit when I said it.
But what people don't understand is for any mask or gay person in our league, or poppy stud whatever terminology you want to use for yourself anyone that was deemed different.
No sponsorship dollars.
No endorsement dollars.
Because you can't sell to what?
The male demographic.
Because they didn't feel like we had enough sex appeal.
So for years I played the, oh, I'm bi.
I still do both.
I still do this.
Knowing damn right well that I wasn't ever going to mess with a man again.
How interesting is that?
Because you're saying... And it still happens to me.
Really?
It has gotten better over the last probably like year or so.
Obviously, the stud buds weren't crazy.
I created the poppy crops with Brittany Sykes like two, three years ago.
And finally, I feel like our league is slowly starting to see and not only the league, but sponsorships endorsements, outside of that is like there's a huge demographic for them.
Oh, my God.
Have you been to bar plays when you guys— Do you know how many straight women tell me they would leave their—and this is like— But what I'm going to say is, like, what you're pointing out is so interesting because you're saying when you were in the process of sort of coming out to yourself, to other people, it's like in the locker room with the teams, you felt completely— Seen.
And then it's like... And that's because of the experience of being in the league.
You're meeting these other gay women.
And we're like, pro-mind your fucking business.
But then it's like from the outside you can't.
It's this weird space you're in where you can't.
You can express yourself so fully with your teammates but then because of the league, because of sponsorships and money and dollars, you can't do it.
When did it feel, and how did it feel, more important to you to be true to yourself than it did Like?
When were you ready to risk that money or that sponsorship?
I would say probably like 24.
I just felt really rooted in myself.
Even when I came out, my play got better on the court.
I was torching people.
It was almost like I was the Hulk that just got his superpowers.
What do you think that was?
I love that.
What do you think that was?
I think just like...
For me, when you hide a part of yourself or you suppress a part of yourself, you're not fully obviously, yourself.
You're not fully you.
And so you limit yourself in so many ways.
And I felt like I was limiting myself for all those years by not just...
Being out and confident of who I am, because if I can't even be confident in who I am as a person, how the fuck am I confident in who I am as a player?
We'll be right back.
At this time where you're, you know, publicly identifying as queer.
As gay as fuck.
As gay as fuck.
Okay, let's just say that.
I got called a liberty lesbian last week and I kind of loved it.
Wait, that's kind of nice.
No, I loved it.
That was great.
We loved that.
It was in a good way.
How did you two, your girlfriend, Izzy Harrison, let's just say.
We love her.
Look her up.
You're going to see I bagged a 10 out of 10, 100 out of 10.
Clock it.
Clock it.
I mean, who made the first move?
Isabel, and I love telling this to everyone.
This is my moment.
This is my moment.
This is my moment.
She's going to kill me when I get home.
And I love you, Isabel.
But this is my moment to really just like flex.
That's not what I thought.
Yeah, everything.
I thought you DM'd her, so I did right, she denied me hard.
That was like and you were like what's up?
Yeah, she said no to me.
And what did I say?
We respect a woman's no.
So after that I'm straight friendship.
I might like I might have a little flirtation in the mix, but it's never going to be where I make you uncomfortable.
It's never going to be.
I really took that no as like we can just be friends.
But I think you, my fine ass friend.
Like that's for sure.
Yeah.
And I would love to kiss you and do other things.
I would love to kiss you and do all the things with you, but I don't know if you want to do that shit with me.
Wait, can I... It's like, so she was giving you these hints.
Finally, like, you took it.
But there was also a thing We actually went to like a massage, and she was just like hey, like do you want to hang out?
And I was like, yeah, like I absolutely do after this.
And from there it was wraps.
I was like, oh, this is what you want.
You want to hang out.
No, it was like we were just working out so hard in the off season that you know that's our form of self-care.
So we had gone.
We had each had our own separate.
And then we came out in the car and it was like, so what you doing?
Oh, my God.
Yeah, it was just like we both mustered up the courage, I guess, at that point.
I just truly fell in love with the person.
I could have told you like three weeks in, I was like... You knew.
Yeah.
How?
And I always ask people this because they really, I believe it.
People just know.
How do you know?
Was there a moment?
Was there another moment like you look at each other in the car?
Our first conversation, it was like us getting to know each other.
The first time we sat down one-on-one and it led into like an hour conversation of just like our families, our foundation, our morals, our values.
Yeah.
I was like, I really align with you as a human being.
And I'll be honest about myself.
I think in that moment, I was like in my whole phase and everyone has their whole phase.
And I'm an advocate for the whole phase because and don't like hurt people throughout your whole phase.
But like, you got to get all that stuff out your system.
I totally agree.
Agree, you gotta get it out.
Whatever makes you happy in those moments, you just gotta be.
Sometimes you gotta be selfish in life to get what you want, and so yeah, I was definitely in one of those.
But as soon as I met Izzy, it was like everything stopped.
Um, I feel fully fulfilled.
It's the first time I've ever been fully reciprocated to in my relationship of like having an equal partner that doesn't need you but wants you.
Izzy has her own shit.
How important is that?
She has her own money.
She has her own, like, she's a Jordan athlete.
She's had nine years in this league.
She has her own, and what I love about her most too, is like even when she was with men before me didn't pay for anything.
Because you are the first woman that she's been with.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, like, I needed someone that I couldn't play with.
I needed someone that was very much like my mom.
And Izzy is, like, damn near the reflection.
You know, they say, like, you really do look for your parents and your partner.
Even like home-cooked meals, taking care of everything that we need in order to be successful.
And I bring that same to the table.
But Izzy is the first woman that ever has done that for me too.
Sometimes you talk to people and you just realize what you're looking for.
But it's funny because you were like, I need someone I couldn't play with.
I know what you meant, but you do play with Izzy.
You're on the same team.
It's our first time.
This is an experience that very few people work with their partners.
I would say, you know, very few people also play on the same sort of sports team as their players.
And I'm so curious, like...
How does your relationship at home influence your dynamic on the court?
I mean, I'm sure people have asked you this, but I'm so, I want a window into what that's like.
Yeah, we never tried to play together, which is the crazy part.
I was traded, and so she had already signed to New York.
And we had made it a very—it was a priority for us not to be on the same team.
So you hear horror stories sometimes of previous teams that have had couples and relationships and how it can negatively affect—.
Yeah, it can negatively affect a locker room.
It can negatively affect the relationship itself because you never get any brace from each other.
So I think me and Izzy were very intentional about approaching this the right way and being extremely professional to no one would ever.
We don't ever want to make people feel like our relationship is hindering our success as a team, because the team is the ultimate most important thing for us.
So we have our own separate apartments.
Now, Izzy stays.
Our main apartment is... our apartment that we have all of our dogs in.
It's a two-bedroom.
It's cool.
But she has her own apartment for when she just needed Izzy time.
And I'm clingy as fuck.
I'm a golden retriever.
I am full, like, I call myself a golden retriever, but I'm really a pitbull.
And for those of you that have, I have two.
You have pit bulls know how fucking clingy they are.
Yeah.
And like attention demanding.
That is me.
Izzy is polar opposite.
She very much is like, and it's something that I love about her is like.
I am still my own person.
And when you talk about even like why I didn't like relationships with men, that is such an important piece for our relationship is for Izzy to still be Izzy.
And to still have her own shit, to have her own stuff.
But you are saying something which is like being on the same team.
It's made having your own space That much more important.
We really were... A priority for us was our teammates... getting Tosh and Izzy as individuals.
You're always going to get your Tizzy time.
We're going to travel as Tizzy.
We're going to go into these spaces and we're going to be Tizzy while we're in these.
You know cities and stuff like that.
We have time for our relationship.
We go home together every night.
Yeah.
But when we're in the locker room, you get Tosh, you get Izzy.
So our schedules are different.
Our weightlifting times are different.
Our shooting times, our treatment times are different.
We're really like, We were adamant about just being Tosh and Izzy in that locker room.
And when we get home, we'll be Tizzy.
And it was hard at first of like the first two weeks.
Yeah.
The first two weeks of navigating what does space look like for us?
What does it look like?
How do we manage being together all the time and not having a break?
Because most couples get a break when they go to work.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah.
And I'm so proud of us for how we were able to go through the season.
I do just wonder, is it like totally hot to see your girlfriend like kill it on the court?
Like what a turn on, isn't it?
I tell her all the time, I'm like, I actually... I love Izzy in some basketball gear.
Like that is to me, And even like meeting Izzy at first I think she had been so In a lot of ways.
Like women are conditioned to always look their best and you got to show up.
And I'd be like you don't need none of that makeup.
I love that you want it.
I love that you love makeup.
I love that when you do it, you 100 out of 10.
But, like man, I think you're most beautiful when you don't have no makeup on, when you're wearing my clothes in the crib like that.
Is it so?
When I see her on the court, I absolutely am.
There's like one game.
The whole crowd started chanting Izzy and I was like.
I was like I'm going to be yelling that shit at her.
Not too much.
She's going to kill me if I like, if I go too far with the sexual jokes.
She's going to kill my ass because she is very reserved.
So I'm reeling myself back in.
But I understand what you're saying.
But you know what I'm saying.
I'm going to yell that shit too.
I'll be like, I'll be like, you look good.
That is so hot.
That is so hot.
Here's my, I want to figure out, I mean, and this is, you know, you sit before me, I watch you play.
You strike me as someone who is so, who knows who they are, right?
Man, I love myself.
I think I've said that for like two weeks ago for like the first time, like out loud.
And I remember just sitting down in my apartment and there's a little mirror that is like right across, and I looked at myself and I was like I really fuck with who I am.
You love yourself.
I love myself.
I love myself very thoroughly.
I love my gay, masculine, presenting, mixed, blackity of black, black, black.
I just love, I love me.
Thank you so much.
No, thank you for this too.
Thank you.
And we're done.
We are done.
Mic drops.
The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Christina Josa Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poyant, Lynn Levy, Reva Goldberg and Sarah Curtis.
This episode was produced by Amy Pearl, and it was edited by Lynn Levy.
Special thanks to Christina Josa, Janelle Anderson, and Sabrina Merchant.
Original music in this episode by Alicia Baitube and Dan Powell.
Dan also composed our theme music.
This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez, with studio support from Matty Macielo and Nick Pittman.
The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones.
Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects.
If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to The New York Times.
We've always got those instructions in our show notes.
I'm Anna Martin.
Thanks for listening.
