Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
Hello everybody, welcome to Roundtable.
Coming to you from Beijing, I'm Ha Young.
Good to have you for this ride on a day's show.
Who knew that dance dramas could become the latest trend among young Chinese audiences,
especially those rooted in rich historical tales.
With viral hits on social media, these visual feasts are drawing crowds like never before.
What's driving this wave of enthusiasm for dance dramas?
And from page turning reads to Benjworthy shows,
we share the happiness that lit up our week, essentially.
What's made us happy?
In Roundtable's Happy Place.
For today's program, I'm joined by Yushan and Steve Hathorley, first on a dance show.
Dance drama, or Wu Jue, is a type of stage art that fuses drama and music using dance as its main form of expression.
Since the 1990s, more and more original Chinese dance dramas have emerged, offering audiences visual spectacles.
In recent years, dance dramas, especially those adapted from Chinese history,
have emerged as standout attractions in the Chinese performing arts world,
joining the ranks of other celebrated performance genres.
So let's go to you first, Yushan.
You are our in-house dance drama expert.
Really?
Oh, yes.
That's exciting.
I will try to share as much as I can from my previous work in experiences in the performing arts center.
And also based on my first-person viewing experiences from some of the dance dramas that's getting really popular these years.
So explain to us what the definition of a dance drama.
Well, if you're looking at it from like a historical point of view,
and this is according to ChinaCulture.org, that the earliest records on the origin of the Chinese dance drama is actually hard to trace.
Yet musical dance with elements of drama can be traced back to the Western Joe dynasty from 1066 to 771 BC.
Wow.
That's like thousands of years ago.
Oh, goodness me.
But if we're talking about like dance drama in the modern day context,
it's actually a blend of traditional folk or local dancing styles with contemporary choreography.
And it's performed by a whole crew of professional dancers featuring matching original music, costume, props, and visual effects.
So imagine a Chinese style of ballet.
Because we know ballet originated from the European countries.
Like I think it's from Italy.
But imagine that just performed in a total full set of Chinese style,
but enrolling modern choreography altogether with Chinese dances.
So that's how you perceive Chinese dance drama.
So this is, and I guess you'll describe your experiences later.
But this is a traditional form of dance, but done in a more modern style so that it's more relatable.
I guess to younger audiences perhaps.
Is that accurate?
I mean, back in history, at the beginning when Chinese dance drama first started to emerge back in 1950s to 1960s,
it actually was like a more standard way of doing like folk opera performing or folk dancing performing.
But these days is like enrolling the style of ballet, the style of you know,
just contemporary dances altogether. So yeah, like you said Steve, it's more of a fusion version for people from wherever to enjoy and indulge in it.
Oh yes. And also here in China, given that we've got so many dynasties each,
I would think go further than one century.
So you've got like rich history to draw elements from as well as we have 56 ethnic minorities.
And then a lot of them have their own unique dances. So you can just envision and try to imagine that there's just a wealth of different dance props or elements that modern dancers and choreographers can draw from.
It's almost like an endless bank of opportunities for these artists to choose from then.
And what you mentioned earlier, that word relatable is kind of interesting here because I think what the audience wants to see, well given that we live in 2024, then there's certainly an element of...
Actually, I don't really know how you would interpret relatable because a lot of these dance moves are so dramatic and they are very difficult.
It's not like you will dance those moves, but it's more like how can you sort of amalgamate so many different dance moves and styles and then make them visually pleasing and it serves the purpose of the story and also stage performance and also make it interesting to people.
You know, that's one of the many charms of Chinese dance drama according to my personal perspectives because it's not just simply like 20 or 40 clips of dances put together as some other dance performances might be.
One example of that would be say River Dance. That's from Irish, local dances and all that. So in the case of Chinese Dance Drama, it tells a whole story from beginning to the end like ballet, like say Swin Lake.
But in many cases there is such a modern person, like a day-to-day person that we might relate to as you know, just a UNI, who is on stage the time traveler from modern times back to the historical times or whatever theme this particular production is focused on.
And we as the audiences, we are following this observer role or this modern person on stage to travel back to that time where you can experience like sometimes various different styles of dancing on stage.
You can see like the historical figures dancing barbarically and fusing some local dances styles or Chinese styles while this modern observer role on stage just dances modern choreography dances. So yeah, there are like two different ways of dancing but there's always like a lead of sort that you can relate to.
So this so-called observer character, what Yushan has been referring to is kind of like an audience stand-in. And then also young people these days across the world love time traveling stories.
Sure.
Yeah, and that makes it relatable for people. So you've got, oh, instead of modern contemporary eyes looking at this story and is somehow participating into this story.
And also this serves as the purpose of breaking the fourth wall, bridging the gap between the stage as well as the spectacle. So then I think that's a really interesting, well, admittedly it's not particularly new but maybe new being used in dance dramas has sort of a, you know, a device to connect with the audience.
So cool, you know, when you compare the history of Canada to the history of Asian countries, it's not even comparable. Canada is only, what is it, 157 years old this year? That's it. We're like a baby, right?
You compare that to China or Korea or other countries in this part of the world.
Because plus 5,000 years here in China, so you talk about the rich or vast amount of culture from the past that you can draw on for these modern day artists. We just don't have that. We don't have that yet in Canada, right?
So it's going to take another few thousand years in Canada before we can get to this level. That's why this type of thing is so fascinating to me.
These stories that are being told through these musical performances or dance performances are these stories that young Chinese people would be familiar with, like things that they would have learned in school perhaps.
If so, then it must be a really cool thing for young people because it's a different interpretation perhaps or a different type of performance than what they would have heard perhaps through history books or in their classrooms.
That's so true, Steve. I'm so glad you mentioned it because one example that I can give based on that is actually a dance from a performance that I just attended last month is called the Dance of Calliography or in Chinese is called Junghuu-tunian.
It features the story of a famous, maybe like one of the most renowned calligraphy master called Wang Xi-jue from Jin Dynasty, which is dating back to more than a thousand and five hundred years ago back in the Chinese history.
So that entire dance drama production was dedicated to Wang Xi-jue's life story and how he composed the famous Lanting Ji-sue, which is like a piece of reading for Chinese elementary school students.
Now, if we ask any of us if we had recited that piece of article from Wang Xi-jue, we'll most likely say yes.
And at the very end of the production, they probably invited someone who read through the entire article that goes Junghuu-tunian, Sui Zai-gui-chou.
So yeah, it just immediately gets you back to school. Like as if you're hearing your old textbook article performed right there in front of you on the stage in the theater.
I love it. And also, I've not seen that, and I need to check out some video clips online, I suppose. But just the thought that such a renowned calligrapher in Chinese history, I suppose he might be the most famous one.
And learning about his life story also calligraphy, how that can be presented on a huge stage with all these modern tech that can be utilized.
And having this immersive experience, that must be pretty mind-blowing. I think there's a lot the stage artists can do with it.
And that's what I think what I meant when I said relatable is that you're taking something that the young people already know about, or people of any age already know about.
And they're making sure that it remains an important part of the culture here, right? And it doesn't get forgotten.
I think it's easy for young people in any country around the world to kind of forget about certain parts of their history or certain parts of their artistic culture, because those things become old.
And young people tend not to like old stuff. But if you can take that old stuff and make it cool and make it relatable, again to use that word, then I think it's a way to keep parts of culture that existed in the past and still be relevant in 2024 today.
And also some of the other great examples here could be, well this will definitely resonate with most Chinese people. There are apparently danced dramas featuring Li Bae or Du Fu.
And these are famous poets, standing back to Tang Dynasty from over a thousand years ago.
So when we talk about the Tang Dynasty, then we'd be referring to the seventh to tenth century and Li Bae is often referred to as the poet immortal.
So Shuxian and my favorite one of China's most celebrated poets from the Tang Dynasty and his works are known for their imaginative and free spirited style.
And also these stories of vivid imagery and the way they're reflected in the spirit of adventure and transcendence. These are things that we love about Li Bae and Du Fu.
Du Fu is known as being the poet Sage, that is Shuxian and is revered for his profound and distressing poetry.
Yes, and so he's revered for his profound and distressing poetry that provides a deep insight into the social and political landscape of also the Tang Dynasty.
And his verses are marked by their moral integrity and compassion for the suffering of the common people, which is a very different style as opposed to Li Bae.
But for the Chinese people, these are the possibly biggest names of ancient poetry in this country. So, and both of them have such turbulent and rich life stories to share in the backdrop of the rise and fall of the Tang Dynasty. I'm already excited.
No wonder you see an animation, you see in dance dramas and movies, and this is rich material that people tend to draw from. And you see it in dance dramas.
And there are other really popular examples that Shuxian has given me a crash course right before the show, but I'd like you to give everybody a crash course about it.
Sure, it's like some of the bigger IPs, especially in recent years, have become so influential that it gets onto like much bigger platforms to be performed to like a wider range of audiences.
Like for example, there's one modern history adapted story, not so like thousands of years ago kind of story, but rather kind of close.
It's called Yongbu-Sao Shiretien Bo in Chinese and in English, it doesn't really, I'm not sure if there's an official translation of it, but my version is the radio wave that never dies.
Or in some cases, I think it's like the never ending radio or something. So that's like an adapted story from real history that the story kind of shed lights on Shun Hai's reach history and also turbulent early 20th century history.
That reflects a lot of Shun Hai characteristics in the production itself. And it got so famous that it was world-pomired on this year's Shun Hai International Film Festival that we just talked about previously that just started last week I think.
So yes, this dance drama actually has its own movie. So it's kind of like Hamilton, which has its own Disney release of the movie.
But with dance dramas, there's no singing. You're just appreciating the music score and watching the dance.
That's correct. There's no vocal performance on stage. The entire crew are just professional dancers. And all of the music, the sound, the possible human-made sounds, or narration, or whatever is off coming from like loudspeakers. It's not performed on stage.
That is also one big difference in case you're relating Chinese dance drama with Japanese Kabuki. It's not singing on stage. It's not narrating on stage. It's just dance.
Right. And also another example we have to mention is Jyue Tsu Tsinglu, the journey of a teal, legendary landscape painting.
This one was so popular. It's been so popular for a couple of years, I think, because most of us who didn't buy tickets to go see the dance drama would have seen it at the CMG Spring Festival Gala, which is a huge cultural event during Spring Festival.
I think we have to give the title of one of the most popular dance dramas in China to the dance drama you just mentioned, which is Jyue Tsu Tsinglu, or the journey of a legendary landscape painting.
This one is not based on one particular historical figure, but rather on a cultural relics. It's based the story, rather the entire theme and color, and visual design is based on a Song Dynasty painting called A Thousandly of Rivers and Mountains.
Jyue Tsu Tsinglu, Jiangshan Tzu, by famous North and Song painter Wang Xi Meng. And I think I am not really credited to talk about it since our other panelists Yushun actually participated in the voicing for, I think, it's an audio drama based on the same theme.
So you can tell how big this IP has become that there's like an audio drama, and in recent years, the dance drama got really viral online.
I have to admit that I was a little surprised to see the dance drama to be this popular, because I suppose nowadays we are spoiled with so many different forms of entertainment, and so many are just a fingertip away on our smartphone.
But this, it doesn't have singing, there's no rock and roll beats, or hip hop beats, and it's just not the most sensory tantalizing entertainment form.
That's a good way to put it, sensory tantalizing. Yes, or aesthetically pleasing, perhaps to the, maybe to the ears. Yeah, because it's different, I guess. Maybe that's why.
Was that what you were going to ask me, why do I think it's so popular? Yeah, and also I'm curious to hear from you, you've just arrived here in China, and then, you know, what do you think might be the reasons that make it popular, and especially among young people?
Because it's different, I think, you know, people are always looking for something new, especially people who are into the arts, right?
You know, if you ask people, do you enjoy going to the musical theater? Do you enjoy the opera? Do you enjoy ballet? I've seen all of those things, and I enjoy them all.
I don't go that frequently, but there seems to be like two different types of people, those who enjoy it, and those who just don't have any interest in it whatsoever.
But I think for the people that do enjoy it, why they enjoy it so much is because it's not a musical, is because it doesn't have hip-hop beats or whatever, because there's no singing on stage.
We've seen that before. They do that in musicals. So here, it sounds like the audience is getting a different kind of cultural and artistic experience, and perhaps that's the reason why it's become so popular.
I'm guessing perhaps that the tickets aren't overly expensive, right? It's not like Broadway level tickets where you're going to pay, maybe $250 or $350 to get a ticket to one of these performances, which makes them accessible for large audiences as well.
I don't know, am I wrong about the ticket prices? Are they affordable? Are they really expensive?
They're partially right. For some IPs, such as the one I just mentioned, the dance of calligraphy, that one is not that old and and famous yet.
So it's relatively more accessible to people like, for example, I spent around 500 yuan, which is maybe less than $80 US dollars for two tickets with relatively good views on the stage.
That's really affordable. So yeah, that's pretty cool.
It's gotten at the right time. That's pretty affordable. Because now with a lot of the performance tickets, they are becoming more and more out of reach for average folks.
I'm getting there because that's why I said, Steve, you're partially right, because some of the bigger IPs, such as the one that we mentioned earlier, like the journey of a legendary landscape painting, and other really famous ones that got on the Spring Festival Gala in recent years, like another one called Wing Chun or Jung Chun,
which is like a martial art themed dance drama, they sell for like double the price for maybe only one ticket sometimes.
And if you want to get the full experience and see the entire stage and with the performance, along with the visual effects and the entire prop and the lighting designs and everything, you have to sit in relatively the middle to get the whole experience.
But the middle seats are difficult again and they're sold out so quickly.
Oh, really?
Exactly. So that's like one thing about accessibility. How can we make them more accessible to everybody?
I was looking up tickets just for comparison to see what it was like on Broadway and in the West End in London, the Broadway equivalent in England.
Tom Holland, you know Tom Holland, he's Spider-Man, he's playing in Romeo and Juliet on the West End right now.
You know how much the most expensive ticket is? About 2,700 yuan.
Great. So it's gonna...
2,700.
2,700.
I have major quibble here, like within China, like the ticket price for concerts, especially like the really popular concerts, just massively inflated.
That kind of price is common for the VIP seating area. And a lot of the times when we compare prices internationally, like for the performances in like, let's say, Tokyo Dome, which actually just looked this up right before the show.
And also in the West End or elsewhere, I mean the prices aren't really astonishingly expensive anymore.
But do we get like top notch performance all the time? I have to say not always. And that's really disappointing.
The average price in 2024 on Broadway, the average ticket price is $189. That's about 1,400 yuan. I mean that's really expensive, right?
If you're going out, you want to make sure you're getting an amazing performance because that's a lot of money for people.
And I guess it sounds like with these dance performances, maybe part of the reason they can charge more money for these tickets is because the performers are doing such an incredible job.
And because the performances are so good, their popularity keeps rising and rising and rising. And that would make the tickets more and more and more expensive, maybe.
I would say that a successful Chinese dance drama, the size of its production, it's kind of equal with some smaller-scaled musical in West End in London.
It's not really as big as Hamilton as the... And there's only one Hamilton.
Exactly. So yeah, I think the Chinese performing art groups, they're trying to design dance drama, or at least the theme of it, to become such a successful and famous IPs like Hamilton or famous musicals to the West.
But the thing is, like for example, I remember in London, they're trying to make it as big as musicals such as Hamilton, like in the West.
Yeah. And that's a real predicament for anybody who's trying to develop new properties because to develop something new and fantastic, it takes a lot of money and of course brain power and people to get involved. And what if it flops?
And then you lose all that money you've invested. So no wonder it's difficult to sort of put your feet down and really sort of invest like that.
But if it explodes in popularity, then well, just as you can lose as the best example as such. We'll be back with Roundtable's Happy Place.
