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This is Round Table. You're listening to Round Table.
I'm your homely enjoying by JotkotrL and Dinghook coming up on the second half of the show.
If you live in China, you might have already noticed this.
Everyone from your hairdresser to your tech support is called a teacher nowadays.
It's not just a quirky trend.
It has deep roots in our history and evolving social norms.
Today, let's unravel the fascinating journey of the word teacher, explore how it has morphed into a universal term of respect and what this says about the Chinese society.
Also, have you heard about the latest trend in Beijing?
Medicinal bread. That's right.
Bakery are popping up with health-focused de-loves featuring ingredients from traditional Chinese medicine.
Imagine grabbing a loaf with goji berries or jing-sins.
Is it a gimmick or a delicious way to boost your health?
Tell us what you think. But now, in a world where titles often define our interactions, the term teacher has become remarkably ubiquitous.
It's fascinating to consider how this one's exclusive designation has permitted various professions, reflecting a broader shift in our societal values.
From the savvy businessman to the local Nudo chef, it's old Tony Laoshie or teacher Emily.
It's like a linguistic quirks straight out of a comedy sketch.
But the truth behind this cultural peculiarity is far from a joke.
So, is it really that common?
I want to start by asking you, have you ever been called a Laoshie before?
I'm pretty sure you have.
So, when is the first time being home?
Oh, maybe 10 years ago? 10 years ago, you were only one year into my career after I graduated from college.
So, from a student to a teacher, right?
Right. So, it was not called by a colleague of mine.
I think it was someone I worked with that is outside our company.
Anyway, probably this is a Chinese only culture.
Yeah, if you don't know how to address a person, especially a professional, just call him or her teacher or Laoshie in Chinese.
And if you know what he does exactly, you can also call him as a teacher.
And you don't even need to know his name, just call him teacher.
And that's everything.
Because this title is now gender specific, right?
So, basically, everybody, especially a professional one, can be called teacher in China.
This is very interesting.
I want to ask Josh, because we know you speak a little bit of Chinese.
I am belittled your ability to speak Chinese to your other Chinese friends, not on the show, for sure.
But do you experience similar situations?
Do people call you Josh Laoshie?
Yeah, I mean, this is, I probably say Laoshie and here Laoshie over 100 times a day, I think.
I think it's, I don't say any word more than this.
I probably say it. Really?
Maybe I say yes, yes, yes, the most.
But I think, yeah, after that, it would probably be Laoshie.
And one of the reasons is because, as Dingheng rightly mentioned, it's not gender specific.
And also, it's not really professionally specific, as in you can use this in most professions, right?
And it's quite a polite way to use it.
So, I definitely overuse it, and I hear it all the time, but it saved me on many occasions, because, you know, when I hear Chinese names, a lot of them, I find them very difficult to retain in my memory, because some of them sound the same, a lot of them are the same, or they have a similar character or sounding word in them.
And so, it's more difficult for me to remember them, but I can always go back to Laoshie.
So, this is why I use it so much.
Well, I am going to share some of my standards.
When I decide whether or not to address the other party, Laoshie, but you guys are welcome to jump in anytime, because my nuance is quite specific to start with.
When it comes to the term Laoshie, or teacher in Chinese, the reason we address people as Laoshie is because when we were kids, actually, we would call our teachers, actually, we would call them some-some teacher, and the samsam would be their family name.
So, jian laoshie, li laoshie, vang laoshie.
So, these are actual teachers when we grow up, and they teach us things, we pay respect to them, and I feel like that is one of the reasons that I find it okay to call people Laoshie in a workplace, because I feel like they can always teach me one thing or two, and it's justified.
And when I do that to start with, I would like to prefer calling them Laoshie with their family name, to show that I still remember who they are.
I remember their family name.
That's why my first standard, and if I really don't remember the name, I would just say Laoshie, but I feel a little bit guilty when I do that.
And the second thing is, for me, I would still call those with a certain profession, Laoshie.
So, I don't address my, for example, hair stylist Laoshie.
I don't really do that, and for example, for my taxi driver, I might call them shufu.
I don't call them Laoshie.
So, that's my nuance. That's the standard I stick up to.
I very much resonate with that, actually, you know, because you can always find disagreements in the comment area, whenever you check online articles about this particular topic on the internet, and the reason why they disagree to abuse this term or this title is mostly because they believe calling everybody Laoshie or teacher will blur this address for real teachers, and will damage the kind of respect that real teachers deserve for their career, for real teachers.
So, for people who behave really in a bad manner, or unprofessional manner, they don't really deserve this title Laoshie.
For me, I only address people that I genuinely respect for their professionalism as teacher or Laoshie.
I have a pretty high standards, I would say.
I call a person Laoshie not necessarily because he or she is my boss, or has worked for a longer time period than I have.
This person must have some qualities that I think are precious, valuable, and really deserve my respect.
I am really against abusing this particular title Laoshie to me.
This title is still a little bit sacred.
If this is a person that on your mind, you don't have respect for at all, or you even look down upon why he called him Laoshie, calling him or her as a teacher, is mentally uncomfortable to me.
Well, I feel like you have stricter rules than I do.
And one last principle for me is that, because sometimes, when people a little bit older than I am, sinnier than I am from another company, start calling me Laoshie, I get really uncomfortable.
I feel like I do not deserve that, and that is the reason that I don't do that to, like, peers or colleagues with similar age, if we know each other enough.
I mean, from the very beginning, you might address them as Laoshie, but for those who are definitely younger than I am, or for the interns that we're working together, I don't do that to them, because I feel maybe they will feel uncomfortable as well.
So that's my last standard.
That is, I don't do that to people who are definitely not that sinnier or within that age group to my standard.
But I was actually curious, because this Laoshie thing now feels like a very common, very universal thing in China.
I was wondering what's the situation in the Western world?
Is there a phrase or a way of addressing people that you guys would very much like to use in a professional setting?
Yeah, there are, but I don't think that there's anything like this.
If you wanted to be really respectful, then you could call someone, sir, usually a male and madam for a female.
But this is usually for customer service, context, or in the United Kingdom, if you're in high school or secondary school, you would call your teacher, sir, or miss.
At least that's what I did.
And so you would only call, you wouldn't use the word teacher.
You might use the word professor, but actually that's more of an Americanism, or an American English sort of thing.
Even at university in the United Kingdom, we would call our professors by their first name, usually.
Actually, after the age of 16, you call all of your teachers by their first name, not even by their last name.
So I think there's quite a big difference here, and there's less of a generalized term.
But for me, I actually see Laoshie.
I do believe that it is overuse sometimes, but I know that I obviously translate it directly in my brain as a native English speaker.
So I think that for me, I use it as not just for somebody who's, I respect, but for somebody who has a lot of knowledge.
So for example, in the music industry, we use this term a lot.
For example, I've done some quite big shows with all castors, big as in a lot of musicians at the same time.
And there might be like 30, 40 people on stage.
And so there's a lot of sound engineers, light engineers, there's a conductor, there's other musicians, I'm on stage myself.
And so there's a lot of Laoshie's because, and I use that word, because they have a lot of people have very specific different knowledge, and we rely on them for it.
So, and I actually think that that is the same as a teacher, in essence, because a teacher is the same, they have knowledge.
There's a difference in that you specifically go to them to learn from them, but I think there's some similarities there.
Maybe I'm translating it wrong, but for me, that's how it is.
And I guess maybe in the English language, we could translate it to teacher directly in certain contexts, but we would never use that word.
Oh, I totally see what you're talking about.
Actually, for our profession, we do that as well.
We call Shue Xiang Lao Shi, that's the cameraman, the camera crew.
And we would call, for example, Huai Zhuang Lao Shi, that's the makeup artist.
Yeah, that's what you do.
And especially when you're hosting a major event, it's possible that you guys are only together for this one or two days, but you're working on this major project.
It's impossible to know everybody's name and addressing them as my profession.
It's a little bit impolite, if you just say, Shue Xiang Shi, come here.
It's just a little bit bossy and impolite.
So instead, you say, Shue Xiang Lao Shi, Zhu Yi, Xia Jie, Duan, so the camera crew, make sure you notice this.
It's important for your work and it's respectful.
It's professional and it's convenient, very important.
But definitely in China, we also address people with their professional titles, especially if it's doctor, if it's sometimes in a setting that's they're the director of a place or if they're the manager of a place, we would use their professional titles as well.
But I feel like both their professional titles and the term Lao Shi can also be used in a joking way.
For example, if I started to call Ding Heng Ding Heng Lao Shi, he would know I'm teasing him.
Yeah, you're trying to create a humorous, atmosphere between you and me.
Yeah. Yeah, that would be nice.
That's what I would love that kind of interaction.
Yeah, interaction and atmosphere.
And calling people Lao Shi is really a practice that is deeply rooted in our history.
You can date back to ancient dynasties as early as the spring and autumn periods or the warring state periods.
We are talking about hundreds of years before Christ.
And then I guess later in the dynasties like Jing, in the 13s or 12th entry, this award Lao Shi started to refer to the profession of educators.
But really, I think the real generalization of this title was more of the contemporary thing.
In 1996, the revised edition of the modern Chinese dictionary defined Lao Shi as an honor-reflect term for a person who is doing teaching.
And it can be generally referred to a person who is worth learning from in some way.
And interestingly, last year there was a survey conducted in the Eastern Chinese city of Jinan in Shandong Province where 80% of the respondents believed that everyone can be called a Lao Shi, no matter when it's asking for directions or buying food at marketplaces or whatever purposes.
Lao Shi is always the first choice.
That's pretty interesting.
That's really interesting.
So I was wondering because China is a vast country and there are many differences even in detail that about different issues.
So when it comes to calling some Lao Shi, do we see any geological differences?
Yeah. So I think earlier I mentioned about Jinan.
And that's really because Jinan is the regional capital, or the provincial capital of Shandong Province.
And if you remember, we need to keep in mind the culture of Shandong is deeply influenced by this Confucius ideologies and a social norm of respecting teachers and emphasizing education or imparting knowledge to other people learning from each other is maybe relatively stronger compared to other provinces.
That's my wild guess. So that's why also this term Lao Shi can be so predominant in the city of Jinan.
Yeah, because for my home town Shandong Province in the provincial capital of Taiyuan, I don't recall people calling each other Lao Shi on the street.
Maybe we still do it in a professional setting, but if you're asking for direction on road, you would call them Nà Jie.
So bigger sister or sometimes you call them Xì Fua.
That's like respectful way of addressing someone with a certain age.
That happens more often.
So I feel like definitely there would be distinctions when it comes to different places.
And when you're in that city, no matter which city you're touring, you're visiting, maybe you can observe these kinds of trends and these kinds of social norms.
And I'm having a little bit of record of how people address each other on the streets in different cities could be a fun survey to do.
And there you have it. The word teacher or Lao Shi has traveled a long way from its ancient origins to its current status as a term of respect for virtually anyone with expertise at least.
And I believe it's a reminder that respect and knowledge aren't confined to classrooms.
Next time, when someone calls you a teacher, take it as a compliment.
It's a nod to your skills and the value you bring to the table.
You're listening to Round Table coming up next.
Let's bite into the delicious piece of TC and Bread and see how this trend in China combines traditional Chinese medicine with modern baking.
Stay tuned. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Wanna hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune in to Round Table, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
It's the hour of Round Table with myself, Neil Honglin, Josh Cotterall and Ding Hong.
In an era where health and wellness take center stage, the emergence of medicinal bread offers a unique perspective on integrating traditional Chinese medicine into modern diets.
From Beijing's bustling CBD to cities like Shenzhen and Hongzhou, these bakeries are reimagining how we consume TCM ingredients.
So tell us more about this TCM bread.
Well, this is indeed something very, very interesting.
The idea is that you add some ingredients or materials that can be used in the making of traditional Chinese medicine into bakery, into bread making process.
So this is not bread with traditional Chinese medicine per se.
In stats, this is bread with traditional Chinese medicinal materials or ingredients.
And by the way, in addition to being used in the making of medicines, many of these materials and ingredients can actually serve as food as well.
This is officially recognized by Chinese authorities, Wolfberry or Gochiberry is a typical example in this regard.
It can be used for medicinal purposes, but in the meantime, it is also a source of food.
And also, it's interesting to note that in addition to many of those so-called professional bakeries across the streets and cities, some professional hospitals, for example, I have noticed a hospital in a nearby city of Tianjin.
They are also making and assaling these products.
So yeah, the reason behind it could be multi-faceted.
And we can talk about that some later.
Yes, yes. So Josh, for your taste, would you consume some of these TCM bread are you interested in the idea or are you intrigued by this idea?
I'm not particularly intrigued by it, to be honest.
I mean, I come from a country that has a real bread in culture.
I would even say that it's probably our second staple after potatoes, maybe, or maybe on a par with them, depending on the family or from.
So we have a long history of baking.
And so some of these things seem quite interesting to me, but not particularly interesting, especially the sort of herbal infused breads.
That sounds a little bit strange to me.
But things with fruits in them and stuff like this, do interest me, actually.
I know that like goji berries and things like dates.
I know that there's a lot of value placed and things like dates in TCM, right?
And this can also be in some of the breads.
That sounds reasonably appealing to me.
And we also have a lot of breads in my own country that have berries and stuff like this as well.
So I think it depends on the style, but some of the more herbal infused ones do sound a little bit strange to me.
I love olive bread. I don't think olives are really used in TCM, right?
But not so much, but if they were, then I would definitely eat it.
Well, the idea about TCM bread is that for a lot of people having a little bit of TCM ingredient, I'm calling them ingredient, where actually their herbal medicine is good for your health.
And as Chinese people, we are quite familiar with the concept, we're quite familiar with different functions of these herbal medicine.
And we are already somehow drinking the herbal tea in a way to cultivate our health.
And knowing having this correlation between a certain type of traditional Chinese herbal medicine and a certain function, make you feel like if you added to anything, it would be a good boost to your health.
You added in maybe a dish of chicken soup.
It might be really good for you.
You added into a certain type of herbal tea.
Maybe it can help you gain more strength and be more focused in the long term, for sure.
And having, for example, a Maidong toast, supposedly it will be good for your lung and respiratory system, and maybe having a lejiao soft bread, lejiao being the donkey-high de gelatin, this soft bread, you feel like maybe having it for a longer period of time, it can improve your blood circulation, boost energy and a hand-skin health.
So actually it's the correlation between the certain type of herbal ingredient and the certain function, make you feel like if you added to anything, the anything would be good for your health.
Yeah, that's interesting observation.
And by the way, more often than not, these kinds of brads or toasts we are talking about here, they are pretty tasty, according to people who have tried them, which is different from some people's initial imagination or expectation that, oh, maybe they smell not good, maybe they feature the smell of medicine.
No, that's not the case, they smell good, they taste the good, they are tasty.
So although medicinal material or TCM is a selling point of these products, that's for sure, but ultimately they still need to wing the heart of consumers through providing of a good taste.
Oh yeah, we want them all, we want them to be tasty, we want them to be sugar-free, and we want them to be super healthy.
Yeah, so we are really talking about something that is sad to be good for your health, but at the same time tasty.
I'm not sure whether that can really be the reality or it is just a kind of illusion that somehow you can get both health and taste from a same category of products.
I'm not sure. I smell spectrism.
You don't believe in it, do you, Dingham?
I'm skeptical. Well, actually I get where you're from because for a certain medicine to actually have function to the status of your health, it takes time, it takes certain amount to be consumed by you maybe every day for at least a year, but definitely there is this tradition or there is this history or culture of traditional Chinese medicine being integrated with food.
We have the Yao Shan being the kind of meal with certain TCM ingredient or TCM medicine in it, but most of these for them to actually work for a patient, these need to be customized, and TCM doctor would have to see you and give you diagnosis and actually provide subscription of these kind of food recipe.
They seem like recipe, but actually they are basically prescription that has been the case previously in ancient China, I'm sure, and maybe that has also contributed to people's enthusiasts or interest in trying some of these TCM integrated bread.
And actually this is not the first time the market has seen these kind of products has something to do with TCM, is it?
Now really, I think yeah, we have seen some TCM relevant or TCM featured tea drinks and some restaurants, some of the recipes, some of the dishes, they provide also what a feature, some TCM ingredients.
So I feel like in a bigger picture sense, the emergence of these products, be it toast, bread, or other things we have so far talk about, this is really a reflection of a growing health anxiety among consumers in general.
In a positive angle, we can say this is a growing awareness about health, but from an angle that is not so positive, this is anxiety and that this idea that you expect anything you consume to be 100% healthy, that you can 100% stay away from junk food, fast food, et cetera, such anxiety is really in many ways incubated by commercials or commercialization of virtually everything, and in return, this kind of anxiety will incubate more opportunities in the commercial world.
So in that case, Josh, do you think this is a sustainable business model?
I think to some degree it is.
And actually I know that if we look at the broader market of bread in China, this is also increasing, or it's becoming bigger and sort of bakeries and different styles of bread, it's been on the rise and we've seen some of these brands, they have massive cues outside the door.
And one thing that is different about this industry compared to some other food industries is that bakeries, you have to buy the bread on the day, it's baked fresh that day, right?
So I think as long as some of these ingredients and some of these TCM products that are in the bread can be sort of incorporated smoothly into the idea of baking it fresh, then I think that's good.
And I think that as this industry develops, customers as well will develop, and their taste for it will develop.
And they'll wanna know where were these, for example, where were these berries sourced from?
Are they the freshest berries, right?
What sort of customization can they have?
Are they able to go to the bakery and select a lot of different kinds of breads that we know that customers these days, they want personalized products.
So as long as they can keep up with that demand, I do think that there is a market here because I think that bread, the bread market is doing very well in China for now anyway.
Yeah. Well, the rise of medicinal bread in China highlights a unique fusion of traditional Chinese medicine and contemporary baking.
By integrating TCM ingredients into everyday foods, these innovative bakeries are making ancient practices more accessible and appealing.
While the trend may seem niche, its popularity reflects a growing consumer interest in health and wellness.
Stay tuned as we continue to explore more fascinating interactions of tradition and modernity in our future episodes.
And that brings us to the end of today's round table thanks to Ding Hong and Josh.
Until next time, keep the conversations going and the ideas flowing.
