Daily news and analysis.
We keep you informed and inspired.
This is World Today.
Hello and welcome to World Today, I'm Ding Hen in Beijing.
Coming up, China says it is ready to cooperate with Russia to ease Middle East tensions.
China beats the United States in global approval rating by the biggest margin ever.
And we are going to explore how Ukraine is hoping to develop ties with the Middle East amid its war with Russia, as well as the Iran war.
Congo says it is going to receive third country deportees from the US under a new deal.
To listen to this episode again or to catch up on our previous episodes.
You can download our podcast by searching World Today.
First up, China has expressed readiness to work with Russia to help East Asians in the Middle East.
In a phone call on Sunday, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi and his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, agreed on the need for a ceasefire and a return to dialogue.
Wang Yi said China and Russia, as permanent members of the UN Security Council, should promote fairness and take objective and balanced approach.
Lavrov expressed a deep concern over the escalating conflict, calling for immediate halt to military operations and a shift towards political and diplomatic solutions.
So for more joining us now on the line is Dr Greg Barton, professor of global Islamic politics with Deakin University.
So thank you very much for joining us today, Professor Greg Barton.
What's the meaning of China and Russia joining hands to push for a ceasefire and a renewed diplomacy?
Well, I think the key issue is the Strait of Hormuz.
The Strait of Hormuz, of course we know now takes 20 of oil and gas, but actually in some other areas like helium or urea is even more.
And so the impact is global.
And this is particularly the case in Asia.
So most of the oil and gas and the byproducts going out of the Strait of Hormuz go to Asia, and Asia depends on the flows through the Strait of Hormuz for the majority of its supplies.
So this is a matter of global concern.
And it now appears that America's got itself in a situation where it can't resolve this situation simply through bilateral negotiations with Iran.
Iran doesn't trust America for understandable reasons.
There's also the factor of Israel.
The global community needs that straight open.
Of course, the other Gulf states also need access to the Strait of Hormuz, and it looks at this stage as if the only solution will come through global cooperation.
In this context.
It needs to be explained, of course, Despite what Donald Trump may have thought at some point, there is no military solution to open the Strait of Hormuz.
The solution has to be diplomatic and it can't simply be bilateral.
So it's going to have to involve cooperation from global powers.
China certainly will play a role.
Russia as a global power also has an interest.
Hmm.
So, in other words, based on what you have said, the US and Israel have lit the fire, but to put out the fire it requires much more powers.
That's right.
Donald Trump said he didn't expect Iran to strike the Strait of Hormuz and close shipping.
But of course, this is what has been foretold in every wargaming scenario for decades.
So his failure was not so much a failure of US intelligence, failure of intelligence on the part of the US president, in other words, not listening to the advice he was given.
Israel shares a similar sort of blame for not recognising what would happen when they started this conflict.
Now they have no capacity by themselves to resolve the conflict.
It certainly won't be a military resolution.
It has to be diplomatic.
The trust is broken down, so it requires other parties to come and join.
So, for powers that are not directly involved in the Iran war, what would an objective, unbalanced approach to the conflict look like?
Well, from the point of global needs and global powers, what we do realise is the Strait of Hormuz is critical to the global economy.
We can't afford to live very long with that strait being closed or largely closed.
Uh, because of because the importance of the oil and gas flows and the byproducts, like helium, which is important for semiconductors urea, important for fertilizers, etc.
So everyone has a vested interest.
From Iran's point of view, what Iran wants is really two things.
Firstly, a guarantee that it won't suffer next year, the year after, sometime in the foreseeable future, another attack from Israel and America.
So it wants a guarantee that it is safe from further escalation in years to come.
Not just Israel and America attacking Iran, but also what Iran has called its axis of resistance.
So Israeli actions in southern Lebanon, for example, the Houthis in Yemen, largely work in tandem with Tehran.
They also want guarantees that they will not be drawn into fresh conflict with their neighbour, Saudi Arabia.
Shia militia and political parties in Iraq also want a guarantee of stability.
The second thing that Iran wants, beyond this stability for its country and its alliance partners, is some sort of reparations.
So at the moment it's a functioning as a sort of a toll keeper, a gatekeeper in the threat of Hormuz.
That's its leverage, its bargaining point.
But what it would like is some support.
Saudi Arabia may play a role in this potentially China as well in helping rebuild the damaged infrastructure.
Of course, this is.
This is saying that we hope there's no further escalation of attacks on infrastructure.
America has begun attacking bridges and universities and other vital infrastructure.
The threat is attacks on power stations, even desalination plants.
That would be too horrible to contemplate.
But even the damage done, Iran will need help in rebuilding.
Of course, one thing that American Israel reasonably would like to see as an outcome is a guarantee that Iran won't pursue a nuclear weapons program.
And there's some scope in the middle for meeting on those common needs.
There are some points of agreement that can be worked out, but it won't occur with either America or Israel by themselves negotiating.
They'll need international support.
The call between the two foreign ministers actually came ahead of a United Nations Security Council vote on a Bahraini draft resolution regarding the protection of commercial shipping in and around the Strait of Hormuz.
Do you think the UN Security Council will vote to pass this resolution?
Well, I think it's certainly in the interest of members of the Council.
I mean the concept of free trade and free transit through international waters, particularly vital straits, and of course the Strait of Hormuz is one.
The Bab al-Mandeb in the bottom of the Red Sea is another.
Of course, historically, we've had conflict over the Suez Canal, etc.
These waterways are really important to the world functioning the way that we all need it to function.
And so there's good sense in pursuing some resolution.
The question is the steps that are taken to get to that point of resolution.
But the agreement in principle is very clear.
And do you agree with this point from China's foreign minister that the fundamental way to resolve the navigation crisis at the Strait of Hormuz is to secure a ceasefire as quickly as possible?
Yeah, I think that's indisputable.
There's only one way out of this, and it will be through negotiation, towards a ceasefire, perhaps a temporary ceasefire to begin with, but becoming a permanent ceasefire.
Iran wants guarantees that it won't suffer further invasions and attacks.
That's very understandable.
Iran doesn't have legal control of the Strait of Hormuz but, as Because of geography, it has the capacity to be a spoiler, and that's what it's been doing.
No one wants to live with a situation where Iran acts as a kind of a gatekeeper, collecting a toll, but that's its immediate leveraging bargaining point.
We need international community to come together.
China is in a unique position to play leadership in this role, to get a negotiated ceasefire which becomes a permanent ceasefire.
Then, in a separate phone call between Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and his Iranian counterpart, The Russian side said that de-escalation would be easier if the United States abandons this language of ultimatum and return the whole situation to a negotiating track.
Do you think the Russian diplomats have a point here?
I think on this particular issue, Lavrov certainly has a point.
I mean Russia has its own problems in global credibility, but it is on friendly terms, it's an ally with Iran.
So it makes sense that plays a role in this.
And I think everyone agrees, both outside America but also inside America and including inside Washington DC, that the language of the president is very unhelpful.
This is not the way to find a solution.
This bombast and vulgar language only makes it harder and only raises the risk of a military escalation, which is in no one's interest.
So everyone is trying to de-escalate, cool the temperature and then find a way of coming together on points of agreement.
And that's possible.
It's just hard work.
Shifting gears a little bit, and let's turn to the situation in the battlefield.
Professor, how would you comment on this fact that the Iranian forces have shot down two American military jets in recent days?
Does this development... mark a significant escalation of the war?
It marks a point of a wake-up call to reality.
America has air superiority across Iran.
There's no question that it can fly particularly at higher altitudes without being challenged.
But air superiority in military terms is not the same as air supremacy.
In other words, He can do a lot of things over Iranian airspace at this point, but it doesn't mean despite what President Trump says, it doesn't mean that there are no radar systems, there are no ground-to-air missile systems capable of challenging American or other forces.
We've just seen that proven.
In one sense it's remarkable that it's taken all these weeks until an American aircraft was shot down, but it is a reminder that Iran is built for resilience, it's built for asymmetrical warfare and it's proven remarkably capable of adapting.
It's not just a question of who controls the air above Iran, but it turns out that Iran's been able to take out many of the US radar systems that protect US forces in the Gulf, but also Gulf states.
And so it's a reminder that, despite the bombast of the American president, Iran is not, is not completely taken out of the capacity to fight.
It has considerable capacity to at least play a spoiling role, even if, of course, it's subject to humiliation in terms of American aircraft flying over its territory.
By the way, do you think this development will prompt President Donald Trump and his administration to decide to send the ground forces into the Iranian territory?
There's no good reason for President Trump to escalate to ground forces.
But that doesn't mean it won't happen because of reasons of emotion and pride.
The reason I say there's no good reason is there's no plausible military plan to secure the opening of the Strait of Hormuz through ground forces.
Even attempting to occupy the southern coast of Iran would prove to be extremely costly and unsustainable, whether it's taking islands or taking the actual coast.
And to move further inland, I mean Iran is four times the size of Iraq, twice the population, much larger than Afghanistan.
We know what happened with American-led occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Despite overwhelming military power, it wasn't sufficient.
Iran is on a different level of difficulty altogether.
Best not to start a boots on the ground escalation.
That will end badly for everyone involved.
It could put the entire region at risk, particularly if we source, you know, a strike on Iran's one nuclear reactor, which is used for its electricity program, or strikes on other electricity infrastructure which may directly or indirectly involve impacting on the desalination plants that the entire region needs to have drinking water.
So there's a lot of things that can go wrong very quickly, And boots on the ground would be one of those things that would raise the risk of an escalation that no one can win.
Thank you very much for joining us and for your analysis.
Greg Barton, professor of global Islamic politics at Deakin University.
Coming up, China beats the U.S. in global approval rating by the biggest margin ever.
This is World Today.
Stay tuned.
Welcome.
I am Chuchu Zhang, Deputy Director at the Center for Middle Eastern Studies at Fudan University.
On the World Today program.
We will dive beyond the headlines to uncover the stories, trends and impacts that connect states across the globe.
Join me on World Today.
You're listening to World Today.
I'm Ding Hen in Beijing.
China has surpassed the United States by its largest margin in 20 years in the new Gallup Global Approval Report.
China's global approval rating rose to 36% in 2025, up from 32% a year earlier.
US approval dropped to 31% from the 39% in 2024.
Previously, China had twice surpassed the United States in this particular rating during the George W Bush administration, as well as the first Donald Trump administration.
So joining us now on the line is Dr Wang Xingsong, associate professor with the School of Government Beijing Normal University.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
So does the result of this opinion poll surprise you?
Why or why not?
Well, I wouldn't say it's surprising because China's image has been relatively stable for years.
What's changed last year was that China's approval rate stayed around low 30s and last year it went up to 36.
We did see a relative increase.
But at the same time, we see a bigger and more striking change, which is the loss of the United States' global image.
While China's numbers improved, I think really the United States declined as much, if not more, than China's gaining.
And it seems that the US approval rate dropped by 10 or more in 44 countries.
Especially Interesting is that the US is losing approval rate in places like Germany, the UK and Canada, and all these are American allies.
So this is more about the shift in how people are reacting to the United States leadership.
Because countries now are, you know, are asking like which powers really look more predictable, more stable and less disruptive.
And I think in 2025 many seem to have you know found that you know Washington is less favorable.
Indeed.
And it's important to note here that, in particular, according to this poll, US leadership's disapproval reached a record high of 48.
So there's a lot of reasons behind this.
Now actually, according to the poll, Professor Wang, we know China saw the strongest relative alignment from countries like Russia Pakistan, Tunisia and Singapore.
How would you explain this?
Well, these countries are traditionally having high approval rates with China.
And if you take Russia as an example, it shows that 69 of Russians approve of China's leadership, which is quite high.
Of course, it's easy to understand, because China and Russia are strategic partners, and especially given the current geopolitical tension that's going on around the world.
I think both the Chinese and Russians are viewing each other in a more positive way, which is not surprising.
In terms of Pakistan.
China and Pakistan are Iran brothers, known as Iran brothers, and China has invested quite heavily in Pakistan, particularly with the China-Pakistan economic corridor.
And Tunisia is a bit different, because I think overall people over there are having an increasing disapproval of Western development models because they are facing quite some economic challenges and political uncertainties.
And China appears to be a good alternative.
And Singapore has long been China's largest FDI source, and China is increasing its foreign direct investment in Singapore as well.
But Singapore is more pragmatic, and so we shouldn't take the number from Singapore as what it is, because Singaporeans are supporting not to take any side, although the people in Singapore increasingly see China as a more favorable country.
Yeah, I guess Singaporeans are positioning themselves as a bridge or as a channel of communication between the US and China.
In the meantime, countries including Israel Poland, the Philippines and Albania favor the United States.
Their net approval of the United States largely resembles their net disapproval of China.
What is your thought?
Well, if you look at these countries, they share something in common, which is that all of them meet America for direct trade, security protection and view America as an indepensible security partner.
Take Poland as an example.
It is on NATO's eastern flank and views Russia as an immediate threat.
So it needs America as a security protector.
The Philippines apparently are having problems with China over South China Sea.
So especially the junior Marcos presidency is literally inviting Americans to be back in order to boost its own security.
And Israel.
It goes without saying, because Israel basically, is ordering what was going on in Gaza and now what's going on in Iran.
And so there's no doubt they're going to view the Americans as more favorable.
If you look at, I wouldn't be surprised if the poll rate is going up this year.
So all these countries are places where security ties are very central and support for the US remains very strong.
Now talking more about Israel, it's interesting to note that actually traditionally, or for decades, Relationship between Israel and China went on in a pretty good manner until the outbreak of the Gaza crisis in 2023, following the killing in Israel by the Hamas.
But looking to the future, to the foreseeable future or over the long term, do you, are you optimistic that relationship between Israel and China will warm up again?
I think, when it comes to global relations, it's all about interest and power, and historic traditions also matter.
Historically, China and Israel, like you said, were in cordial relationship and both sides enjoyed investments mutually.
Especially China benefited from technological investments in China and China also invested in Israel.
But, like you said, global politics shifted dramatically after 2023 October 7th incident and we've seen what people would call genocide in Gaza by Israeli military.
And now what's going on in Iran, which is basically invaded by two countries, America and Israel, for no reason?
So that really puts the bilateral relations at a very hard position.
But, like I said, I think the situation is still going on and China encourages every side, to all sides, to calm down and discuss the issues through dialogues.
China has always adopted this idea of resolving conflicts. through dialogue.
So China is very pragmatic.
China is also principle-based power which advocates for international order to be based on rules to be agreed upon by all powers.
So I think as time goes on, China, India, are going to further develop a more cultural relationship.
Actually, according to the poll, most countries don't have a strong preference for either the US or China.
Do you think this picture offers any guidance regarding how the US and China should have managed their bilateral ties in the days ahead?
One minute.
Yeah, I think it's an important lesson for both US and China that many countries in the world are trying to keep their options open and you know no country, neither country should take as granted for China.
I think it shouldn't take dissatisfaction with the US automatically to be converting to genuine support for China.
But for the US?
Obviously it needs to correct its behavior in order to create a more stable international relations, as well as a better image in the world.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Dr. Wang Xingsong, Associate Professor with the School of Government with Beijing Normal University.
More to come.
We're going to explore how ukraine, including its top leader, is hoping to develop ties with the middle eastern countries, a series of them amid its war with russia, as well as the war between the us and iran.
You're listening to world today.
I'm dinghan in beijing.
We'll be back after a short break.
You're back with World Today.
I'm Ding Hen in Beijing.
China's transportation authorities estimate more than 840 million passenger trips during the three-day Qingming Festival holiday, up 6 from a year ago.
Railway trips have increased by 8.2%, while road trips are up by 5.8%.
This year's Qingming Festival has coincided with the spring break, boosting family trips.
More than 62 million cars hit the road on the first day of the holiday, with new energy vehicles accounting for more than 22.
In the meantime, China's box office revenue during the holiday has so far surpassed the 227 million yuan, or some 33 million US dollars.
So for more on this, my colleague Zhao, Yang spoke with Dr Yao Shujie Chang Kong, Professor of Economics at Chongqing University.
Professor Yao, thank you very much for joining us.
Millions of trips have been made during this year's Qingming holiday.
So what does this tell us about China's consumption recovery and the mobility trends?
The Chinese economy has developed into a stage where there is a huge population of middle class who have been able to move away from the demand, just for basic necessity, into the so-called luxury services.
Holiday tourism.
These kinds of things are considered to be luxurious.
Demand for middle class consumptions.
And as China has such a huge population of middle class, I think the demand for these kinds of holiday travel and also tourism is getting increasingly popular.
Particularly China has a huge territory.
There's lots of beautiful nature, scenery, cultural heritage, historical heritage, which are highly attractive to increase the leisure, increase the quality of people's life.
And I think domestic tourism, including some part of international tourism, has become a very popular service area meeting the increasing demand of this middle class Chinese.
And what are some of the new travel, tourism and consumption trends do you find?
The trend is getting more diversified.
I mean people are in the past.
They may take a tourist group to go in just a small place or a number of places with tourism group.
And nowadays I think there are more and more people who want to have a deeper exploration of the tourist spot by driving their own cars and also travel huge distances with lots of flexibility.
So I think the travel and tourism ecosystem have changed quite fundamentally from the earlier forms of tourism and travel.
Nowadays, people are traveling in different means of transportation.
For example highway motorway railways, trouble by sea and also trouble by airplane and getting more and more short-term distance travel or medium-term travel by their own vehicles.
And with record high railway and highway traffic.
As you mentioned, is China's transport infrastructure keeping pace with the demand?
Yes, the Chinese transportation, especially the modern transportation infrastructure, is now second to none.
Since 2008, China started to build high-speed rail.
The first high-speed rail is from Beijing to Tianjin, which signifies the starting of China's basic transformation from the traditional system to a modern system which is matching with the most advanced country.
And by now, China has probably accounted for 70 of the global high-speed rail system, which transformed the Chinese transportation to a level that no country can compare with what China can achieve today.
So the building of the modern transportation system, let alone the high-speed rail.
The motorway system is also second to none.
And the aviation industry is also second to none.
So China is now.
I think it's the most.
Proudness of the economic development of China is the rapid development of the basic infrastructure to meet the increasing demand of the population.
Not only the efficiency, the convenience, but also the cost is very low.
And this is the most successful development achievement in the modern history.
And currently the AI tools for trip planning are also seeing a surge.
So how is the artificial intelligence changing the tourism ecosystem?
I just give you a personal example so to signify how improvement in the Chinese AI system integrated with the transportation system.
Nowadays.
Suppose you plan for a trip, Let's say, from a place like Chongqing to Beijing or Harbin, about 10 days trip.
And you go to the internet, go to the WeChat.
The WeChat will tell you what's the most convenient way and where to find the cheapest and most comfortable hotel, and which kinds of trouble means that you can save money and also cost.
Basically fingertips in the WeChat or there's any other means you get all the planning within a minute.
And this would be unthinkable in the parts of China, which is unthinkable in many parts of the world.
And I think this AI integration actually gives lots of convenience for the Chinese consumers and also saves the time, saves the money, gives the enjoyment and comfortability of the Chinese middle class.
And I think China in this area has moved to the frontier of the global travel industry.
And we're also seeing the box office booming.
So, with the box office, tourism and retail sales seeing surge, How critical is this integrated holiday economy in sustaining China's consumption growth?
The box office is another surprise miracle to me.
You know that when you have the popularity of TV, television broadcasting in the system, at one point the chinese people, they think they want to sit in the room in their house so they can watch television with the film and and the film industry at some point actually suffers a great setback.
But surprisingly in recent years, particularly in the last decade, the film industry is coming back and it's getting bigger and bigger breakthrough.
Why is that?
It's not because of the television system is getting downward.
It's because of the quality of the film industry has been increasing.
There are lots of fairly high quality directors who are able to create films which can anchor into the heart of the Chinese consumers.
In addition, the film industry has also increased the quality of services.
The studios, the quality of studio, the sound and also the picture quality and also the advertising.
You know the services company with that.
So the people are attracted to the studio more and more and they're paying more money willingly, which is highly affordable also, you know, by the middle class, especially parents.
They are really caring about their children.
They want their children to know the history, to go the Chinese beautiful tradition of latency.
This is all coming up. to push the bus office up.
Once people have more time and once they have more holiday, they will be able to enjoy these kinds of things.
And several provinces like Sichuan, Guizhou and Jiangsu.
They introduced spring breaks for the first time this year, So how significant is this policy for China's education and tourism systems?
What's the benefit of it?
Yes, we have to see that the modern industrial production system has become more automatic.
So more and more people are moving away from the traditional manufacturing sector because of the increase of technology.
This leads lots of labor input into agriculture, into manufacturing.
So there are more labor moving out of the traditional industry into services.
It is also possible to enable workers on the factories to have more holidays because of their productivity, especially labor productivity, have increasingly steadily.
And this allows people to have more time for leisuring without actually diminishing the production system.
So, as more technology improvement, there are less demand for labor in the factory floor and there will be more demand for high level services and there will be more time for people to move out of production into consumption.
Yao Shujie, Chang Kong, Professor of Economics with Chongqing University, speaking with my colleague Zhao Yang.
You are listening to World Today.
I'm Ding Hen in Beijing.
Ukraine and Syria have agreed to strengthen their security cooperation during President Zelensky's first visit to Damascus since the two sides restored diplomatic ties last year.
The Ukrainian leader's Middle East tour focused on promoting Kyiv's drone and air defense technologies.
President Zelensky has also positioned Ukraine as a reliable grain supplier for the region.
Before arriving in Syria, Zelensky signed long-term military cooperation deals with Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
So for more.
My colleague Song Ruixin spoke with Dr Zhang Xin, Deputy Director of the Center for Russian Studies, East China Normal University.
Professor Zhang.
To begin with, this was the Ukrainian leader's first visit to Syria since diplomatic relations were restored in September 2024.
What does this timing and choice of destination tell us about Ukraine's foreign policy priorities?
To me it tells us primarily that Ukrainian state to realize the interconnectedness between Europe, where Ukraine is located, and the broader Middle East, the interconnectedness between the two regions, particularly in the context of these two ongoing regional military conflicts or war, one in ukraine with russia, the other is now in multiple countries in middle east.
I think that the trip indicates that ukrainian state, ukrainian leaders, realize very clearly how the two regions are interconnected.
And then ukraine to some extent wanted to show the readiness and willingness to be more actively involved in the interconnectedness between the two regions, including security, regional transportation, transportation corridor and the grain supply, these important sectors.
I think Ukraine shows its willingness and readiness to be a more active actor and in many cases, want to be a contributor to better use the situation interconnected Europe, Middle East geopolitical situation for its own benefits.
Okay, so Ukraine is broadening its diplomatic outreach right now.
Then Zelensky told Syria's leader that Ukraine is a reliable grain supplier and is ready to contribute to Middle Eastern food security.
But Ukraine itself looks like it's still at war, with its agricultural infrastructure under frequent attack.
How credible is this pledge and can Ukraine realistically guarantee stable green exports to the region?
No, at this stage, Ukraine itself unilaterally cannot make such a guarantee, because its own domestic grain sector is, on the one hand, suffering from a military attack from Russia.
On the other hand, it's also suffering from quite a severe shortage of fertilizer, mostly because the recent closure of the Hormuz Street.
So you can see that how Ukraine's domestic grain market is affected simultaneously by these ongoing two regional wars.
So in that sense, it cannot be guaranteed.
But I think President Zelensky's promise shows at least both sides on surface are willing to broaden the Ukraine's potential role to be at least a part of a grain supplier to Syria and even to the broader Middle Eastern region.
As long as those bottleneck I mentioned attack from the Russian side and also the shortage of fertilizer from the closure of Hormuz Strait can be partially resolved, then I think Ukraine is in the position to be at least a much more active supplier of grain to Syria, as well as to the broader Middle Eastern regions.
So can we understand there's a clearly gap between ambition and capability there?
And if Ukraine may not yet have the capacity, what is the rationale behind this like making such a promise now?
Um, this is one of the main areas.
Current ukraine can make some promise, and those promises are not going to be a 100 to realize anytime soon, but it brings hope, brings potentials for all parties involved.
And I don't think the Syrian government would take this promise on just literally.
It's a gesture, not necessarily a solid promise of something that can be materialized 100% tomorrow.
Okay.
Then Ukraine and Syria have pledged to deepen security cooperation as well, says Zelensky.
From Syria's perspective, what does engaging in military cooperation with Ukraine entail?
And could Damascus face some like domestic or international costs as a result?
On this, I think there's a bigger story even more than Syria.
I think Ukraine, after almost five years of war warfare in many cases are becoming a much stronger military state in certain sectors, like drone production and also the personnel who are using drone for military purpose.
They're actually a leading force, not only in Europe, on the international level.
And also its experience of handling those negative consequences of aerial attack, including drones and missile attacks from abroad mostly from Russia, of course is also gaining significant progress.
It's actually one of the most leading countries in terms of its experience handling aerial attack.
So, on those views, Ukraine seems to be interested and may have the real capacity to export its expertise, personnel and know-how not only to Syria and to some other countries who are in need.
Syria actually recently also received a missile attack from Iran or military forces under the support of Iran.
So it may have some interest to gain a better access to those know-how, expertise and information from Ukraine as a more experienced, much more experienced military state.
So in that sense, I think Syria is interested in using these resources, expertise that Ukraine may be able to play.
Yes, there will be eyebrows raised.
There may be additional costs.
We haven't seen any direct response from the Russian side yet.
I don't think Moscow is very particularly happy with that.
So there may be some particular costs to Syria because of its promised extended security ties with Ukraine.
We will see what will come out of Moscow in the next few days.
So you are saying it is not just cooperation, it could also come with certain risks or trade-offs?
Before Syria, Zelensky visited Turkey to discuss energy and security cooperation with President Erdogan.
Zelensky said there were wide-ranging discussions with Syria's leader, as well as three-way talks that included Turkish foreign minister.
How would you characterize the current dynamics among these three sides?
That's a very interesting format.
The first time such a format was held, if my memory serves.
And then you can see that the Ukraine side is also actively not only to engage with Middle Eastern countries on a bilateral basis, but also even try to forge some of these trilateral or even multilateral platforms.
And then it also shows the key sectors where Ukraine is concerned with.
That has a significant overlap with both Turkey and Syria.
As I briefly already mentioned right, national defense, military and defense sector in the context of two regional wars.
The sectors and economic activity related to the grain market, including both the production of grain and also regional transportation corridor related to exporting Ukrainian grains to the Middle East.
So those are the areas that all three countries are concerned are direct stakeholder, you might say a direct regional stakeholder.
So I think the three-party platform or started from those key issues and the key sectors of a common interest to develop dialogue and potentially to use these initial dialogue as the basis for further possible trilateral collaboration or even use that as a platform to broaden to the larger Middle Eastern regions.
So Ukraine, through some, maybe some other forces from Europe, Eastern Central Europe, together with the trans-Black Sea regions, to build on the trilateral platform to bring in the Middle Eastern countries.
I wouldn't surprise.
Maybe in the near future there will be some trans-Black Sea platform that bring in Ukraine, Central Eastern European countries and the Middle Eastern countries, particularly Turkey and Syria.
So I think that's an interesting and significant first step.
That was Dr. Zhang Xin from East China Normal University speaking with my colleague Song Raixin.
You're listening to World Today.
I'm Ding Hen in Beijing.
Congo says it is going to receive some deportees from the United States as part of a new deal under the Trump administration's third country program.
The migrants will start arriving in this country this month.
The United States has struck such deportation deals with at least seven other African nations.
According to a recent report released by the U.S.
Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
The Trump administration has spent at least 40 million to deport about 300 migrants to countries other than their own origin.
So joining us now on the line is Dr He Wenping, Africa expert and a senior research fellow with the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
Congo, we understand, has described this particular arrangement as a temporary arrangement reflecting the country's commitment to human dignity and international solidarity.
Underneath this official statement of the Congolese government, what do you see?
Well, this kind of commitment given by DRC, the Congo government, I think of course they want to, to save their own face and also give this response to the people, their own people, because people are questioning.
So why our country will accept this kind of illegal migrant people because they are not Congolese.
So what kind of maybe deal has been reached between those government official or government whatever with the Donald Trump administration?
So there are different opinions, of course, come to them.
So that's why, even internationally and in Africa as a whole, they also need to show their ownership, building or dignity, whatever.
So that is saying this is a temporary one, and even the DRC government saying they will handle this, those cases one by one, according to DRC, their own constitution and relevant to laws.
So all those saying, of course, is to talking to others, to the people and to international society as a whole.
Other African nations that have also accepted this third country deportation deal with Washington.
They include Eswatini, South Sudan and Guinea, etc.
So Are you optimistic that they can ensure the well-being of those deported migrants from the United States?
And do you see any possibility that Washington might reward those countries in Africa with something for accepting this deportation deal?
Well first, in terms of those fees, you know, like a plane and all those logistics support, all those things, the White House will cover the American side.
They're saying, oh, you don't need to pay anything. those accepting countries.
By the way, what kind of other fee will be paid maybe to those receiving countries?
Those things haven't been mentioned on the table because they feel this is Not good to make it transparent, but definitely there will be some.
Maybe money reward goes to those countries and also plus many more others.
Like for sure I think White House now give a link these things with, like those investment in DRC.
They're like resources development, those mineral resources.
So you see our American company will come over to do investment here.
So this is a bond deal, put them together.
In terms for those deportees, What is their future?
Nobody cares about those.
You see, all those countries now agree to sign this kind of treaty with the United States.
All goes to those poor, those, you know, least developing countries.
For example, the DRC, the Congo themselves.
Wow, the per capita GDP.
Only just the 600 and more than 70 of people, themselves Congolese.
They're living under poverty now.
So how come they can offer like all good residence for those deportees?
No way.
So I think those people being sent now to a country where you are not Congolese people and then maybe you should find your jobs by yourself probably ended up also living in the jobless or like in the slum, whatever.
So their future definitely will be miserable.
Now, in the meantime, we understand between South Africa another nation in Africa and the United States.
There has been a diplomatic level dispute over President Trump's claim about the so-called white genocide in South Africa.
And President Trump has actually openly welcomed white South African refugees to move to the United States.
So I mean, Dr He, as you look at the situation and making comparison here, do you see the stark contrast here?
Yes, obviously it is a very sharp stock contract and also shows very clear there's a double standard.
You know, for those people who think diplomatically, because this Donald Trump's policy towards South Africa is purely, purely driven by his diplomacy, because in their eyes South Africa, because now is against Israel's, this bombing to Gaza, against this policy, in a very strong way,
Even law should bring Israel to the international court.
Uh, named them as genocide.
Uh, to the gaza people.
So that is why israel, the united states, all not happy about south africa.
Even by the end of last year, the south africa was hosting the g20 summit and also being boycotted by the white house.
So that is why now donald trump saying why you have been doing, uh those uh A bad policy.
You treated white people not that good in South Africa.
That's why you're raising this flag very high, saying we will welcome them, come to the United States.
Those white, those farmers.
So you see, welcome someone and then deport many, many more of those migrant people in the U.S.
So this is a totally double standard and also very big contrast, all based on their own American first.
This is so-called American first, because now uh, make those illegal migrant people now out of us.
This is becoming the number one concern now from the donald trump administration, i mean in terms of his domestic policy.
You know we see a lot of things going on, even go to different US city also caused those tragedies.
Yeah, we know, deporting the migrants you don't want to see in a particular jurisdiction to a third country is actually not a new practice.
I guess it's really really questionable that this practice, this particular practice, can end up solving the problem surrounding illegal migration.
It's very, very complex issue.
But thank you very much for joining us, Dr He Wenping, African expert, and joining us from Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
That's all the time for this edition of World Today.
I'm Dinghan in Beijing.
Thank you so much for listening.
Bye for now.
