I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong.
Raising children is hard, and it really does take a village.
And when the people in your village have different ideas about how to parent your kid, well, I know it can bring up a lot of feelings.
You're bad at this. You're messing up your kids.
You don't know what you're doing.
You'll never be as good of a parent as I am.
All right. Well, today I'm talking to a mom about a conflict, but she's been having with her child's caregiver, who in many ways she adores and really doesn't want to lose.
But in other ways, she just can't figure out a way to maintain the relationship in a way that feels good to her.
We had a situation with our caregiver, so I'll kind of go into that a little bit more, but just so you know, it kind of peaked and then has kind of stayed stagnant because it hasn't been addressed because that's been where my hesitation has been is making sure that I do this thoughtfully and I do it in a way where my needs are being met at the same time.
And working with a new nanny, it's been evident that our parenting styles differ.
The realization that I'm essentially co-parenting with this individual.
And in the times that I have provided feedback, which I thought has been in a respectful manner, has inevitably caused some escalations and some tension and I feel myself retreating again because I am terrified that I'm going to say something in my head that doesn't seem like it should be perceived in a harmful way.
And then there's this backlash that's happened.
She's taken some of my vulnerabilities.
I mean, this person's in my home.
So she's seen, look, I am by no means who is a perfect parent, a perfect mother.
I have a very demanding job.
It weighs on me incredibly heavily every single day that I have to work so much and not get to spend the time with my kids.
I am actually going through my own mental health journey right now, you know, dealing with some trauma therapy, like like a lot of stuff like I'm working on me too.
So I'm not by any means in the best place either, but for her to kind of pick at that when she feels like I'm questioning maybe the way that she's not questioning, but like that I have asked her to address things differently with my children.
It no longer feels like a safe environment.
I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside.
We'll be back right after this.
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So let me just try to kind of mirror back what you're saying and kind of bring some of this together.
So you have a nanny. It sounds like there's so many things you love about her.
It sounds like you're close like the families are even kind of pretty intertwined.
Or you even say the way we parent is different, which to me also says something about how involved she is.
They were saying, my nanny is parenting my kid.
There's a lot of meaningful moments.
So there's that. Some things have gone on that have been left unresolved.
And it seems like they don't feel good to you.
My guess is they probably don't feel good to her either.
Maybe that's one of the reasons things keep coming up or snippy comments.
At once I hear from you this relationship with my nanny, the relationship of my kids haven't mind any is so important.
It feels like it's really another source of stability for my kids.
And it feels so precarious.
Like I'm nervous about it.
It feels like I could say the wrong thing and it could blow up.
So to have these things at once, this relationship feels so important, so critical and so precarious and kind of unsafe is really disconcerting for us to hold on top of all the other things you hold as a parent.
Is that a decent summary?
Very much so. It's how to co-parent with a caregiver and then also if I could add to that in a way that I can still meet my own needs with and hold my own boundaries.
In this situation, it feels a little bit different because it doesn't matter the amount of work that I have put in to my own self-talk, the own grace that I have for myself and my shortcomings that I feel as a parent that I have.
When someone steps into my home and points those shortcomings out to me, it feels very triggering in a way that I beat myself up again because I'm failing.
Yeah, so one of the things you're saying is my relationship with my nanny is such that it feels like my nanny is critical of me and then that brings up my insecurities.
It kind of makes me turn into a version of myself.
I don't like as much and how do I navigate that?
Given also this nanny does a fairly good job with my kids?
Yes, I don't want to hide out my room anymore.
I mean, that is essentially what's happening right now is I'm staying in my room in the morning, not being able to send my kids off to school with her by my side because I'm so afraid that there's going to be an interaction or I'm in an interjector.
She's going to feel like I'm overstepping and not allowing her to do her job.
Let's make this real. So it's the morning you're like, I'm not hiding in my room because it doesn't work for me.
It sounds like for you, I don't want to have a relationship with my kids and our caregiver when my caregiver's there, I'm hiding in the room.
Just give me a short example, really short.
What's something that she might say or do or how she might look at you that might start to spiral into, oh, she's judging me and I'm a bad parent.
Now I feel like awful and I just want to hide in my room.
I was upstairs one morning when I heard our caregiver Lily say, basically interrogate my daughter whether or not she brushed her teeth and it was this very back and forth thing and from that point forward, the rest of the morning kind of derailed.
That evening when I spoke to my daughter, I could tell that she was confused and hurt and didn't really understand what was happening and I frankly didn't like what I heard, but I heard it, didn't see it.
So the next morning when I was downstairs and it was time to brush teeth, caregiver Lily said, time to brush teeth, I'm going to go and help you and I stepped in and I said, you know what, I would really like, if Erin could show us that she can brush her teeth on her own.
The text message that I received shortly thereafter was telling me first off, Erin was late to school.
Second, use completely undermined me and the teeth brushing situation.
I was going to use it as a way to build trust and make it fun and connect.
I have to tell you it's extremely frustrating to have you make an appearance once in the balloon moon and to think that you know exactly what's going on and attempt to take over.
I've been giving it some thought for a while now and I think it's best if I arrive to pick up the girls at 850 from here on out except for the days where you're legitimately working.
That's in quotes, legitimately.
Okay. So there's so many things to come on pack here.
What does it feel like she just said to you?
The word that comes to mind, like unworthy.
I feel like something to strap down in you and like you're touching into something that's so important and just between us right now, I mean, that's so grateful you're allowing yourself to go there and I hope you're giving yourself credit to.
This is true for all of us and maybe clear when I have an exchange with my husband where we end up escalating things like to some degrees because whatever he said, it doesn't matter.
It feels like he said something different.
We always respond to what it feels like someone saying to us and so to some degree these texts and they're biting.
I'm not trying to say they're totally biting, I'm not arguing with you.
To some degree, it feels like she's writing like you're an unworthy person, you're an unworthy mom.
Which one? Maybe both. Yeah.
If I imagine a text message, interchange, right?
It's like the tooth brushing thing and I'm going to arrive late and you undermine me and maybe we say back, that's not what happened and don't talk to me that way in a way.
What I picture as the higher level of communication is you're both texting back and forth to each other.
You're unworthy. You're unworthy.
You're unworthy. You're unworthy.
In some ways, you're probably both feeling the same way and you're both in some ways covered with other words, maybe attacking the other person in the same way.
At least that's the perception.
And Dr. Becky, if I can, that was kind of the peak of some of the things at the end of the day when I have given her feedback, when I have asked certain things of her, it's also been met with this pushback and her trying to almost take control.
For example, my daughter has my oral therapy, right?
So she has to do these tongue exercises and I had asked for some assistance for her to do it at a certain time and was met with.
Actually, I think this is what needs to happen.
And actually, I think that she shouldn't get TV because it should be a reward kind of thing.
That's where, and that's where I'm like, I no longer feel like I can ask these certain things that it's like, I'm asking you to meet the needs of our family because that is what your job is and you are basically taking over and trying to dictate what you would like and what you don't know how you think things have changed.
And that's where it's very tricky because you have this relationship.
Look, you're naming something I hear from so many parents that the relationship I have with my kids caregiver, her nanny is unlike any other working relationship in the world.
It seems to fit into no category.
It seems to follow zero of the same rules.
It is the most important relationship.
Sometimes I wonder, do you work for you?
Like, what is happening here?
And it is so emotional. It is so loaded.
It is so tricky to manage.
And so I don't know one person who wouldn't say that.
And the reason I also think that's important is because, and I can get like this too, right?
I think we can when we're frustrated going to like, this is not how relationships work.
When one person pays another person.
I can say that too. Like, this wouldn't happen in any other workplace.
100% true. And there's so many other aspects of a caregiver, parent relationship that also wouldn't happen in any other work environment.
So I really think it's like a unique subset and that's important to realize.
Now, what I think you're saying, because I want to strip away, she's taking control or she kind of speaks back to me in a disrespectful way or this is not how an employer employee relationship go.
All of those to me actually get in our way of what I think is, you know, much more important and more core to you.
And you can tell me if this feels right.
I feel like one of the things you're saying is I don't feel great in my relationship with her.
Like, I don't feel like my words are responded to or listen to.
I feel like things escalate.
And what I also really notice is our communication really breaks down.
I think what happens when we go from big ideas to this is not how employer employee relationships go to again, actually, what is a little more like what I said before like dropped down.
That's always the word.
Let me just drop down like, what am I feeling?
What do I need that I'm not getting?
We soften a little bit. We actually feel often a little less angry and actually a little more empowered.
Be like, what am I need when I'm not getting?
And I think what you're saying is I need to be able to voice things that I disagree with and for us to be able to communicate about that.
I need also to know that in general, our communication is going to be respectful.
We're not going to throw jobs at each other.
We're not going to put air quotes on things, right?
And I also think what you're saying is when I'm sharing something critical or something I want to be different.
I actually really want Lilly to be able to hold in mind that I think she's doing a good job and that we're actually on the same team.
So that kind of this feedback, she doesn't take in in a defensive way, but instead she can actually incorporate.
And I think if we break those things down, we can actually go through a lot of different strategies to help move things forward.
And here's the first one.
I'm going to just want to be surprised at him saying this to me when the first communications that need to happen with Lilly is just saying, we're on the same team.
We both love these girls.
And I think we're also both struggling a little bit in our relationship and we both want it to feel better.
How do you think she would take to that?
My hope is she would take to that well.
And what about you? How do you take to that?
What do you think about that?
I've actually been probably the only thing that I had sat with as far as my approach to this was starting out with, like, let's talk about the end goal of mind and the end goal of mind is we want this relationship to remain intact.
And we want to make sure that this is a win-win for everyone involved.
And I find it so diffusing to say to someone explicitly, like me and you were on the same team.
I don't know about you, but like, you know, another relationship, a friendship, a parent, a mother-in-law.
Has been. Has been, like, when you're in conflict and they kind of come at you in a different way.
And they're like, whoa, we're having a lot of conflict.
But honey, like, we're on the same team.
We're teammates here. I know for me, I almost take a double take.
I'm like, right, like I actually had forgotten that, or at least my body forgot that.
And I think that's a really important starting point to remind yourself first.
There are redeeming qualities.
She's clearly in defense attack mode.
I'm in my own version of defense attack mode.
Nobody's winning. Right?
And actually, we're on the same team.
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I think you can go in a lot of different directions.
So let's even model how to do this.
What is, if you had to pick one thing, if one thing could get better in a conversation with her, one topic you were able to discuss without conflict, but actually gain more understanding and maybe even feel closer after what would that one thing be?
Is it reviewing the toothbrushing incident or you're like, I feel like we just need a repair there.
It's like we both carry that around.
Is it her picking up the feeling like I can sell on the couch and answer emails and not feel like she is thinking that I'm on Instagram.
Great. So let's go back because I'm going to take that and I'm in this lovingly and I'm going to tear it apart and give you a different focus.
And I'm doing that from a place of like empowerment.
Okay. So wonderful. So let's go downstairs and you're going to sit on your computer.
And I think you should impart to emails and you should impart.
Scroll on Instagram and eat some bond bonds.
Okay. Here's why we can't control what someone else may or may not be thinking about us.
May or may not be judging us.
And someone said to me once, I don't know why it always takes me.
I find it useful. Well, someone else thinks about you Becky is none of your business.
I just, I'm not like very compelling.
You know, other people's minds take up too much real estate in our bodies.
Is she judging me? She think about me like think about like all the space you'd have to instead be, I don't know, writing another email if you wanted to or enjoying scrolling on Instagram.
If that's what you want to be doing, like if you weren't as worried about what Lily's thinking or wondering, is that a judgmental look?
Is right? You'd be able to live in a way that's so much more aligned with whatever you want to do.
So I think the goal of going downstairs and in some ways trying to control what she does really takes away from this journey you're on, which I hear is so much beyond Lily and like kind of coming back to yourself and feeling more confident.
And so I don't want, I don't want that goal to undermine that.
So what I could imagine saying to her, just to kind of clear the air is after this we're on the same team is, you know, I just want to be honest to you about something.
Sometimes I come down and I kind of want to be around you all and I'm a little bit on my computer doing work and I just want to be honest, I worry, I worry that you're judging me.
I'm not saying it's your fault.
I do worry about that. And something that would feel so good to me and something I'm just want to let you know I'm going to do is just reminding myself that I can come downstairs.
I might be on my computer a little bit.
It's kind of the way I need to spend my time.
And I just wanted to let you know that instead of doing some of that stuff in my room, I'm going to be doing that.
What you're doing is you're really shifting the focus.
Like you're shifting because when we say to someone, let's say like I'm going to come down and I need you not to judge me.
Right. What someone really hears again is I'm unworthy.
I'm not good enough. You know, they think I'm a bad person.
And then someone has to say back something to you to kind of release themselves of that guilt and put it on you.
Well, you know, you are distracted a lot and, you know, just be better if you didn't come down and all of a sudden you're like, oh my goodness, this is awful.
Where's it? You own what you're doing.
That's our boundary, right?
Our boundaries are things we tell people we will do.
And a successful boundary requires someone else to do nothing.
I think that actually could be one of the most empowering things you'd think about.
Boundaries are what I tell people I will do and require the other person to do nothing.
Now, we make requests of people all the time.
I think you can make a request as you rebuild your relationship with her.
Hey, you know what I'm thinking about?
If somebody doesn't feel good between us, I think it would be best to talk in person.
Because I notice from both of us when you go back and forth in text, we can't eat each other tone.
It feels a little snippy.
And, you know, I'm just not going to engage in conversations over text anymore because I want to preserve our relationship.
That's still a request.
You could text do something.
You can't control it. But still, I can imagine making that request.
Could I roleplay with you on what I feel like she's going to respond with something like that?
Let's do it. Okay. I anticipate the response to be, well, you are never available to talk.
Great. So I'm going to show you what you're going to say back.
And then we'll talk about how.
You really want to be able to talk with me more often and it's hard to find the time.
Oh, you really want to find time to talk with me.
And it's hard to find the time.
Or I'm going to give you another option.
It feels like text is like the easiest way to get to me because you're right.
I'm often pretty busy with work.
It really feels like text might be the easiest way to get to me because I'm really busy with work.
Tell me what that brings up for you because I think I know what's happening.
So I'm just going to say it because I have it in my mind and you're going to tell me if I'm right or wrong.
I'm wrong a lot. So you can be like back here.
You're so wrong. It feels like when you say that back, you're not kind of defending.
Why you're working or you're not defending.
I'm a good parent or it feels like you have to like defend that in some way.
It feels like it's an accusation.
Yes. Because if I'm going to be fair, I mean, it's been pointed out to me.
And like that my kids need to spend more time with me.
And I think this is really tricky because often the things that people say is these like kind of biting comments.
It's that's off something in us that that we worry about.
Am I not spending enough time with my kids?
Oh, for sure. Right. And then I'm already aware of that.
I'm aware of that. And so you're seeing something that I already feel vulnerable about.
And when you see it, it makes me, makes me want to vacate that feeling for my body.
So the quickest way to do that is to try to make someone else feel our feeling.
We do that all the time. Oh, you make me feel vulnerable.
I make you feel vulnerable.
You make me feel bad about myself.
Quote, make me. I'm going to just give it right back to you.
And there's actually so many reasons though why that's so ineffective because number one, what you're saying right now is actually so critical.
You have your own reflections around that.
Maybe you do want to be more present at times, right?
And yet that gets so lost when instead the story is my caregiver so rude to me.
I'm not saying she's not rude, but when that becomes the story, you actually lose the plot, which is, wait, there's times I'm busy with work and I need to like deal with my feelings about that and that's something I have to do.
And there are often or five extra minutes in a day that I know it is hard for me to put down my phone and stop scrolling.
And I actually really do want to get better at that.
And I promise getting into an argument with Lily about it is actually going to really get in your way of actually showing up more often the way you want to show up because again, with the story that takes over is like Lily's the worst.
Yeah. And I mean, and I'm really actually trying to focus on not just the surface level back and forth, but the really underlying reason of this person is triggered when I have tried to provide feedback.
And again, in a kind respectful way, the very first thing I did when she was hired was I sent her several of your podcasts and I said, I want you to listen because this is really the way that I would like to approach in my husband and I have an agreement with like to approach our parenting, trying to share with her kind of, you know, as we're welcoming her into our home.
I don't think she ever listened, but that's okay.
I want to look, I think maybe this is the bigger theme here is I feel really hard to communicate in a way that's effective and productive with Lily.
When I think about important relationships like this one where you're saying the way she communicates with me feels so disrespectful and so hurtful.
She's pointing out my vulnerabilities.
I'm not disagreeing. Right.
The reason I think it's important to say, okay, pause.
Can I defuse the situation?
Right. It's a way of diffusing.
I don't think you want to talk to me.
I don't think Texas great.
You're right. We should carve out another time.
The other side of that is, is this a relationship I want to stay in where I want to put in the work to defuse conversations?
And I think that's really important because I guess I keep hearing, is this someone who I want in our life?
Is this a caregiver that works for our family?
Is this relationship too precarious?
Is that out way some of the benefit my kids get?
Do I think that this is like the best caregiving situation for us?
And I know for me when I'm trying to figure out those big questions, one of the things I take upon myself is, okay, what would happen if I lead with generosity?
What would happen if I even say, hey, you know what I told you to listen to those podcasts?
I wonder if in some level, even though I didn't mean it, if it felt like a criticism right from the start.
I just wonder because if it did, I can understand that's not what I intended.
And I wonder if that's one of the reasons, I don't know, maybe you didn't even listen to them.
I would understand that, just figure we could talk that out.
So I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to put in the defusing.
I'm going to put in the same team mentality, but this is important.
Until I get to a point where I might say, either, wow, that's really helping.
I think we really are feeling like we're on the same team.
This is feeling a lot better.
Or if that doesn't happen, I'm going to say, I am putting a lot of work to feeling like we're on the same team, to communicating in a way that is less likely to provoke defensiveness right, to defusing these conflictual moments.
And still, this really isn't working out.
And so this is no longer a relationship that I think works for me to be in.
Can I share with you something that came up as you were saying that?
Yeah. I, she is such a good caregiver to my children in so many ways.
She loves those girls. Like they are her own own.
Right? Like that situation is so good.
She gets along with my husband, great.
It feels, and I hate even saying this because it's just like this internal narrative a little bit of like, am I the problem?
So when you ask that, like, is this a really, like a relationship I longed for and want to stay in?
Well, if everything else is going well at the 90% of the time and the 10% of the time that I'm in the picture is when things arise, maybe it's me.
Look, I hear you. And this is again, the trick, like, it's the trickiest relationship.
It's not so clear cut. But you're not saying, yeah, I don't love being in this relationship.
And I really don't like the way she generally is my kids and everything's awful.
Then I guess you'd be like, yeah, clearly, I don't even need to talk this out.
This is not working. And one of the things I think because you're such a reflective person and you're so aware of things that come up for you, so fast for you, where I think you're aware of this double narrative of like, this relationship isn't great for me.
And so many of my own vulnerabilities get triggered here.
And I think we know with any of us when we get triggered, what makes us vulnerable to a trigger pre-existed that relationship, right?
Now I just would ask you though to shift from the model of, is it my fault, kind of am I the common denominator, right?
That's like the most negative least generous interpretation of it.
Two, if I had the assumption not that it was my fault, but that, wow, so many things get triggered from me here.
That unworthiness. It's like whenever I see her, she just has a sign on her head that says, you are an unworthy person.
What is a small experiment I could do?
Not my shift that slightly.
There's so many different things we maybe were like, I'm going to be around my caregiver for four minutes.
It's a four minute experiment.
And I'm going to first look in a mirror and say to myself, I know a good parent.
I'm a good parent who works a lot.
I'm a good parent with a caregiver who's probably about to say something that is going to trigger my unworthy feelings.
I'm going to play a little song on my head.
I'm worthy. I'm worthy.
Or I'm a good parent doing my best.
Or I'm going to play a little trick on myself.
Going back to the idea of what other people think about us as none of our business.
I also think there's an extension of that, which given we actually really never know what someone's thinking about us.
And we infer it from things they say, but we filter that.
We're our own securities.
We just don't know. I have to think if we're going to make up the thoughts of other people, we might as well make those thoughts work for us.
So what if the next time I went out around Lily and my kids?
I went out and I just said, Lily, I think, can not stop telling people what an amazing mom I am.
Lily is just like bragging about me everywhere.
She's like, you have no idea the family I work with.
This is a super mom. She works.
She is home. She's balancing being on her computer and doing dinner and I do give her a hard time.
I do. I do. I don't know. You all know I can be like, but you have no idea this mom.
She is by far the most amazing.
Now, do I think she's doing that?
But sure, I have no idea.
And you have no idea. But I can tell you that idea is going to work for you way more than what I think you're an heir to is, which is she thinks they're the worst parent in the world, which taps into your insecurity and wondering, like, am I messing up my kids?
Am I a bad parent? Maybe I have, it's not even a form and an experiment.
Maybe it's a 90 second experiment.
Maybe it's a 15 second experiment where you tell yourself the story and you're like, I'm going to go out and like, I don't know what she's going to say to me.
She always says a gap between what she says and what she thinks.
But I just know she's just emanating like, I'm the best mom in the whole world.
And like, she's kind of obsessed with me.
Like, you know, and then you go out for 15 seconds.
You leave your computer in your room and you go and just go to your girls.
I just wanted to kiss you.
I have to go back to my meeting.
But I just wanted to kiss you when you look at Lily and you say, oh, sorry, this is a little disruption.
I just had to let my girls know how much I love them.
And I know they're in great hands with you.
And then you walk back and you just say to yourself, there I go.
Be the best mom in the whole world.
One more piece of evidence she's going to use to tell everyone else.
What do you think about that?
Yeah, I definitely am going to give it a try.
Because here's the thing.
And I'm just coming to this now.
Your interactions with Lily do not sound pleasant.
And I think she probably has some hurt and insecurities that she is without a doubt acting out on you.
And she's not here now. You are.
I think for this to change even more than your interactions with her need to change.
The story you tell yourself needs to change completely agree.
If I can ask, I think something that's still very much like present is this whole idea of, you know, that everything you said feels so good just on the day to day, interact with normal interactions, but in the moments where I need to ask the sub-ing of her.
So here's how I would do it.
I would number one start with literally, right?
Because you have to think when we're in a state with someone where there's kind of chronic conflict, we are all primed to hear whatever they're going to say as one more piece of evidence that they think we suck, that they think we're awful, that they think we're unworthy.
I think you're both primed in this way.
Is there a quick way to avoid that there isn't?
I don't think humans have figured out how do I make sure someone who's primed for a trigger doesn't get triggered?
I don't know if someone knows that.
Please call me, right? But we can definitely do some things to reduce the likelihood and reducing the likelihood is the best it gets when it comes to human interactions.
So what can you do? Hey, I want to share something on my mind.
And let me just start by saying we're on the same team.
I think you do a fantastic job with our girls.
They feel so loved by you.
I feel so lucky that you're the one taking care of them, which I think is true.
The nuance you're leaving out is your relationship, and I've realized I want to be more direct with you about some small things here and there that really matter to me so they don't build up.
So I just want to share one of those small things with you.
Then maybe it's, I don't know what might it be.
Let's do the tongue exercise situation.
Okay. Where the timing of when you want to do it.
Yeah, basically. Yeah, that I need her to make sure that she gets it done in the morning and she pushes back with saying that she wants to done a different time.
Great. So the tongue exercise, it feels really important for me to know it's done early in the morning.
And one of the reasons is I know how important it is to get done.
I know you know that too.
I think I feel anxious as the day goes on.
That is just not going to get done.
And it feels so good to me knowing it's done before school because it's just one less thing that I think about.
I know that's not maybe exactly what you want.
It is the thing that would just help me feel so much better.
And so I want to ask that that does get done in the morning.
And I want to be honest about the reason.
And so like what I'm doing there is I am making it so clear to someone that my request really is my request.
It's not a criticism and it is.
It sounds like it is your request.
For all I know she could do in the afternoon and it doesn't really matter.
You're asking because you want it done and that is perfectly alright.
You should embody that.
But if we don't own that, what can happen especially when relationships feel difficult is the other person is vulnerable to hearing your request as a sign that they're doing something wrong.
And then they don't respond to your request.
They just have to defend that they do in fact think they're doing something right and they're being a responsible person, which is why communications get crossed.
And so you heard over and over, this is for me.
This would just make me feel better.
I know you have a different way and I want to be very clear that this would just help me worry less.
So I'm going to ask for it to be done before 9 a.m.
Super, super direct and starting with that piece of wrong the same team.
I think you're doing a great job.
And I want to tell you something that's on my mind.
The last thing I'm going to say because I know there's so many different things we're covering.
But I think this is a good way to encapsulate it.
When we're in conflict with someone, a caregiver, a partner, almost anything we say has the likelihood of being interpreted through the other person's trigger and vulnerability.
And a quick way around that besides saying upfront we're on the same team naming your reason, owning your reason before you say the thing completely shifts a conversation.
So it's a difference between saying, hey, can you do the tongue exercise in the morning?
That's not naming your intention versus, hey, I want to share some of you that I'm feeling a little anxious about.
I would like to do it in the morning.
Same thing. Let's say you're with the partner and you're always the one who worries about being late and you get into fights all the time and you're like, are you ready to go?
That's just naming the thing versus, hey, I want to let you know I'm feeling a little nervous.
We're going to be late. And so I really want to know when you're going to be ready.
So I can just feel a little calmer.
It's actually clear now to the other person that this is your need versus a criticism of them.
And then it's much easier to accommodate because their trigger isn't as likely to be set off.
Does that make sense? It does, would you mind doing one step further?
Yes. Like, yeah, show me an example of if there is pushback after you model that.
Sure. Then I think, look, we have a very human moment of saying, okay, and it kind of goes back to as this relationship I want to be in, right?
Where we can't make people do things, you know?
So I think to some of you, like, is this a battle I want to fight?
And if it's not, I might back down and say, okay, it seems like this is like really hard to figure out.
I'm asking you to do it in the morning.
You've reasons why not.
I'm not going to make you do it.
I'm going to charge the girls.
You're responsible. And I guess we're just disagreeing and you're the one there.
So you're going to do it in the afternoon.
And I probably store as data in my head, huh, like this doesn't feel great to me.
It feels like my requests aren't honored.
Okay. I need to like note that and see if that keeps adding up and over time does that become the thing that makes me say this relationship isn't working, even though you happen to be great with the girls.
Now also in between, you could say, hey, okay, look, I just want to slow this down.
You really want to do it in the afternoon, I'm asking you to do it in the morning.
You might have a really good reason to do in the afternoon that I don't understand.
So actually, can you explain that to me?
I'm not going to argue against it.
I promise I'm not going to argue against it.
I'm just going to actually listen to understand.
So, you know, there must be a good reason you have.
That's also a great phrase to always de-escalate.
You must have a reason for wanting to brush your teeth in the way that way.
You must have a reason. Can you just share a little bit that with me because I want to better understand.
Conflict generally comes from a lack of understanding.
We often go right to a solution, which often just escalates conflict because we get more hardened versus actually prioritizing you want to explain yourself.
So she understands you.
And also, we probably owe the other person if we want to be in a relationship with them kind of the same courtesy.
Would you take that same approach when we sit down to kind of talk about what has transpired in the past and what's not necessarily?
Yeah, if you're going to have that conversation, I'd start with the same team.
And then I'd actually make it super limited.
And I think you have to be really, really, really focused on this too.
You know what I think to be good?
I wonder if there's one thing where we really felt misunderstood by the other person, where we really want to say one specific moment that we want to explain to the other person.
Now, I actually think you might have better luck given things are so precarious.
Just saying we're on the same team.
Look, I want to say I feel like there's probably been many situations for both of us where we feel misunderstood, where we feel criticized.
I think I have felt criticized and I'm sure you have felt criticized by me.
And I don't know if it's going to serve us to get into the specifics, but I also think we can just probably both agree that we want things to feel better between us.
We both are very obviously important roles in these kids lives.
We want to talk to each other respectfully.
And I just want to let you know I feel that way.
I think that probably it might be, it might get a little precarious to get into the specifics.
Okay. No, that's great.
None of this is easy. None of this is clean.
It's messy. I want to bring some of those things together.
I think always leading with just from hiding that person that we're on the same team, naming your intention when there's conflict is really, really helpful.
I want to talk to you about something because I'm anxious about it, right?
Then the person knows to file it away and say, oh, this person really cares about that.
That's not that they think I'm a bad person.
And then I think yeah, the story we tell ourselves always exacerbates conflict because we go into a situation hyper vigilant about certain signs, which makes us more likely to read certain signs in that way, which convinces us see they really are judging me or things like that.
And a really powerful way around that say like, what's the opposite story?
Again, if I'm going to make up a story of how someone's thinking about me, my head is what way can work for me?
And you can be pretty hyperbolic given it's just an experiment.
Oh, she thinks she basically making me an award.
Best mom ever. She has a trophy waiting in her house.
She just feels embarrassed to give it to me.
Oh, you know, and I guess because she feels that way, there's a gap between how she feels and what she says.
And really, if you allow yourself and there's a lightness to it, it also will feel lighter when you go out.
It could probably be laughing to yourself and she'll slowly be like, why are you laughing?
You're like, it's just this ridiculous exercise, Dr.
Becky, let me do. But that will probably change the way you show up.
You'll probably be a little more lost in like your own positive feelings instead of so focused on what is she thinking about me and what is she about to say, which will also inherently change the situation.
And I think like a series of those kind of short experiments, and I would make them 90 seconds because you want to make them sure enough that you know they're going to be successful.
That's it. 90 seconds, then 100 seconds, then maybe you go crazy and do three minutes.
I think that would be really, really powerful.
Thank you for listening.
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