Hi, Esther.
I'm a 26 year old woman.
And the question that I'm trying to figure out is whether or not being in a relationship is right for me.
So I grew up kind of expecting that I was going to find the perfect man someday and get married and have kids, and that then my life would be perfect and I would be happy and that's all I would ever need.
And I've been with men that I love, but I don't think I've ever been in a relationship that made me feel happier or more fulfilled than I do when I'm single.
I felt like my partners were always trying to get me to do things that I didn't want to do or to live my life in ways that I didn't want to.
And I think partly that's because I'm pretty introverted and I'm also kind of a perfectionist, and Neither of those things is bad.
Like I don't dislike those things about myself, but I think they make it very easy for me to feel like I'm being pushed and pulled in a direction that I don't want to go.
So I've been kind of questioning whether even being in a relationship at all is really the right thing for me.
And the problem is that I'm just worried that I'm going to end up alone in my old age.
You know, right now I have my parents close by and I'm very open to the idea of having a child by myself.
But once I get older and my parents are gone and my kid moves away, maybe like I don't want to be alone with no family.
But I also just feel so much more myself when I'm single.
So I'm trying to figure out should I keep looking for a partner, or should I just decide that I'm okay by myself?
So I'm hoping that maybe you can help me with some of this.
Hi, this is Bella Freud.
I'm the host of Fashion Neurosis.
This week on the show, Esther Perel is on my couch.
Erotic recovery is part of trauma healing.
God, that's interesting.
It's not the reward at the end.
Yeah.
That's the difference.
And I think we both come together around that construct.
Yeah.
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So when I sent it in, I was not seeing anyone.
And then about a week later, actually, I met someone.
So I've been seeing him for a couple months now.
So I'm just in a little bit of a different place than I was at that point.
Okay, so we can go to where you were and we can go to where you are.
Where would you like to begin?
Where should we begin?
I don't know.
I think maybe both.
I guess I feel sometimes like a switch flips a little bit, when I'm single versus when I'm in a relationship.
Give me the switch and give me the flip.
Like when I'm just me, I can be who I want to be.
And I get to decide how things are.
And when I'm seeing someone I feel like unintentionally, not like I'm trying to do this, but I just get sort of sucked in to that person.
And I feel like everything becomes about keeping the relationship going at all costs.
And I feel needy in a way that I don't feel when I'm by myself.
And I've been trying to be more aware of that this time and know, when I'm around this person that I'm seeing.
I'm just totally absorbed by that and I don't really feel like I'm in myself.
And then, as soon as I leave, I kind of like have this moment of like like waking up again.
I don't know if that makes a lot of sense, but should I tell you what I'm hearing?
Sure, when I am by myself, I don't experience the challenge of staying connected with myself while also connecting with someone else.
Yeah, when i enter a relationship, i lose the connection to myself.
In fact, in order not to lose the other, i lose me and i don't know how to experience closeness.
That doesn't do away with me, knowing that this doesn't come from the other person, nor does it come from what the relationship is doing to me.
It actually is a vulnerability that I bring with me to relationships.
Yeah.
I added the last piece.
I know you didn't say it.
I mean, you're right, though.
Yes, that's true.
So tell me about it.
What do you know about this part of you that starts to feel anxious, starts to want to hold on rather than hold?
Starts to be afraid that you're going to lose the relation or the other person.
And so you make a zillion compromises with yourself that nobody asks for.
And then, of course, you start to feel a kind of liberation when you're alone, which isn't really a liberation.
It's primarily a liberation from this yoke and from this anxiety.
There's nothing really free about it because it basically is the other side.
It's the flip side of the same anxiety.
In one, I hold on to the person. at the exclusion of me.
And in the other, I hold on to me at the exclusion of anybody else entering my orbit.
Yeah, I didn't think about it that way.
But yeah, that's true.
And I sort of smiled as I was articulating the sentence.
Yeah.
So what do you know about it?
Because this has happened a few times.
Yeah.
You're young, you're 26 you're, you know, worried about being alone at 26 to think about i'm going to be an old lady by myself and my parents are gone.
It's an interesting worry to have, but it's because you are aware of something.
You know that you carry something with you.
I think i mean that part of it.
I like i've always been prone to thinking way ahead, like too much.
You know.
I think every time that i enter into a relationship, i'm immediately thinking about you know, is this the right person for me to marry, and would he be a good dad?
And you know, i just like build up a whole future right away, and i think part of it is that because i i do that.
Then if i lose the person, it's like i'm losing my future.
I'm losing the idea of what it's going to look like.
And it's scary.
It's like I have to figure out my whole life all over again.
I don't know.
I guess the feeling anxious about holding on tightly to the other person.
I think there's part of me that just doesn't feel confident that I'm good enough.
I worry a lot that I'm going to do something wrong or that, you know, I just really have to try to be adequate.
I'm not sure I followed you.
I'm not sure that I'm good enough for what?
To stay with.
That they will want to stay with me.
And therefore I turn myself into a pretzel.
Yeah.
And I try to imagine what they want me to be.
Yeah.
Which they may or may not even have asked for.
Because in fact, maybe they were drawn to the me that is not trying to twist herself into.
Yes.
Huh?
Yeah.
So you've had other relationships, right?
How long have they lasted?
A couple of them, just a few months.
And then I was with someone for about two years of the story you are falling in love with me or you're drawn to me, but wait till you get to know me and you won't want to stay one extra hour.
Yeah, I think it's at the beginning, like before, I have feelings for the person.
Really, when I'm still just getting to know him, I have an easier time, kind of staying myself and having boundaries and you know, in a healthy way.
And then it's like as soon as i start to feel attached or like i'm, i'm starting to fall in love a little bit, i just kind of switch into this like do everything that i have to to to convince him to stay.
And have you ever wondered about that?
Yeah,
It's just like I'm aware of it.
I'm very aware of it.
But it's like I can't stop myself sometimes, you know.
And how have you made sense of it for yourself?
When I have no feelings for you.
I'm very comfortable being in my own skin, in my own body, in my own self-reflection.
Mm-hmm.
And I appreciate that you may be interested in me.
And I think there's a lot to be interested in.
Yeah.
But the minute I start to love you or have feelings for you, they come with an intense sense of needing you.
And the love and the needs start to get confused.
And the minute I start to need you, I start to think that you're not going to want me.
Yeah.
I never think, do you need me?
It's all self-referential.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
So I start to think you're not going to want me because my neediness is going to push you away.
Now, clarify that for me.
There's something about hearing it repeated back, right?
Yeah.
No, I mean, that's all very accurate.
I think...
I don't know.
Would you like me to clarify what else you're looking for?
I feel like you just said it perfectly.
I am just identifying the sequence.
I don't know what propels the sequence.
Okay.
And I don't know if you do.
So we are going to excavate this together.
Right?
Somehow...
The minute I develop feelings for you, it comes with the fear that you're not going to want to be with me.
Yeah.
Now, these two are so connected that you don't even ask yourself, how come?
It's as if it makes sense.
It doesn't, by definition.
It's not a logical thing that, because I have feelings for you, I instantly start to fear rejection, fear abandonment.
Well, but I mean, like when you...
When you care about something that comes with a fear of losing it.
Yes, yes.
But that is a philosophical term.
Not something that instantly makes you twist yourself.
Disconnect from yourself.
Disassociate from your own needs, feelings, wishes, experience.
And mold yourself into something that you imagine you should be.
Yeah.
That's very different from something that I very much believe indeed that, of course, when you care about something, you also experience the fear of losing that thing.
But that's not what, that doesn't mean that you therefore start to do a job on yourself.
A remake.
Yeah.
It just means that you live with a set of complex, interconnected feelings.
Yeah. meaning that the reality of the feelings doesn't explain the extreme of the behavior.
I think sometimes I've felt like I start to fall in love with someone and I just want it to continue and I want to keep it.
And I sort of decide that the only way that I can guarantee love that it won't fall apart is by making everything about me perfect.
Because I can't control what the other person does or feels, right?
Like the only thing I can control is myself.
And so I think I just try to sort of like do everything I can on my end, hoping that that will make up for anything that's not, you know, perfect on his end or something like that.
Does it work?
No, definitely not.
Because the more you do that and the more anxious you become that the first mishap yeah will lead to the ultimate cataclysm.
So you put yourself in a terrible strain yeah, Because you say I can't control, but in fact you are constantly watching what you think is the control of the other over you.
Yeah, I know.
It ends up feeling like he's controlling me, but I don't think it's always really that.
Right.
Yeah.
We have to take a brief break, so stay with us.
And let's see where this goes.
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Did you have any of these feelings at home?
Like with my family?
Yeah.
I mean, I am a psychologist.
I'm a psychotherapist.
I ask therapeutic questions.
Yes.
Therapy-like.
Yeah.
Um, I think when I was a kid, my so my dad, was the stay at home parent and he, you know, he spent a lot of time with us, with me and my brother, and he did so much as a parent.
And he was also at the same time, pretty, pretty critical.
And he had very high standards.
And I felt like when he would be upset about something that I had done, or you know, tell me to do something different, or disapproving in whatever way.
The you know the way that it felt to me like I don't know.
It felt to me like he was saying you're just not good enough, you're not worthy, you're not smart enough, you're not hard-working enough, like that's how it landed on me and I don't think that he was intending for it to feel that way.
But when I was little like you know, seven or eight or something like that the way that I would deal with it a lot of times was he would say something to me that would make me feel like I was a terrible person and I would like go in my room and cry a little bit and then, like the way I would kind of pull myself out of it was by Sounds so silly, but I would just like make a list of all the things that were wrong with me and decide that, like the next day, I was going to fix all these things.
And it just felt like a way to kind of be proactive and like do something about it, you know, and try to avoid feeling like that again.
So I would go to my room and I would outdo my dad.
I would make a list that was even more exhaustive than his.
I would pick myself apart.
And I would make promises to myself that I would fix every imperfection, everything that could be improved upon.
Yeah.
And inside, There were two dominant feelings.
The inadequacy on my side, but also, on some level, the rage and the anger towards the man with whom I needed to get into this elaborate ladder of self-criticism.
I've never really felt angry towards him.
I mean, maybe it's deep down in there, but I've never really experienced any of that as anger.
I know.
I know.
You have to experience plenty of anger, but towards yourself.
Yeah, maybe.
If I start to make a long list of all the things I'm going to change, I'm not being super kind with myself.
Yeah.
I mean, this little girl at seven or eight, where does she sit?
How did she speak to herself?
Do you remember?
Not nice.
Yeah.
I mean when I was really upset, I would just say all kinds of terrible things, and just I mean even things that I didn't even really think were true.
I would just say mean things to myself, such as you know you're in your room, I mean that little girl is alive and well.
Like I mean, like everything from you know stupid and lazy and mean, and like I would call myself fat, even though I wasn't and I knew I wasn't and that wasn't even a an issue in what my parents thought or what I thought of myself.
You know, just like throw everything mean that I could think of.
So I was angry with me.
Yeah.
And when I think I'm better off alone, it's that voice.
I'm angry with you for what you make me feel about me.
I want nothing to do with you.
Yeah. men, partners, lifelong companions, etc.
It's not an anger that calls them by names, but it's an anger that says, I'd rather be alone.
Yeah, it feels easier.
But there's a fuck you in there.
Probably.
It's a good fuck you.
But you need to be able to say it without having to deprive yourself.
Mm-hmm.
Without having to isolate yourself as a way to disempower them.
Yeah.
So they have not such influence and control over you.
You will isolate yourself from them, but it doesn't solve anything.
Mm-hmm.
It's just the other side of I'm angry with me and I put myself down, or I'm angry with you and I take away any opportunity.
You would have to boss me around.
I turned that into like in my head.
I turned it into if I decide to stay single and be a single mom by choice, then I'm making a statement about how strong women can be.
Right.
And like, you know.
But yeah, I think what you're saying makes more sense than that.
We are not strong because we don't need anybody.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That is one of the weirdest thoughts.
Yeah, and I know it's true.
I do, and I believe that.
It's just about feeling it instead of just believing it in my mind.
So if we go back to that little girl in her room who is basically hitting herself with words, with put-downs, harder than her dad did,
Yeah.
So that in some weird way, if I do it to myself, you're not doing it to me.
Mm-hmm.
And then I'm going to promise myself redemption tomorrow morning.
I'll come back transformed.
Perfect.
I'll come back perfect so you can't pick at anything.
And of course that wasn't possible.
So then what would happen?
What happened with that critical self-demeaning, harsh voice inside of you over the years?
Where did it go?
Um, i don't really speak to myself that way anymore.
One of the things that bugs me is that i'm a pretty confident person in most of my life, in my work and with my friends and and even with my family.
Like my relationship with my dad is much easier now And I don't feel like this is really an issue that I have that much except in the context of romantic relationships.
And it's like I just regress and become a different person than I am in the rest of my life.
And I don't really like who I am in that context, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Do you remember a time when you noticed that, instead of criticizing yourself and picking, you actually thought oh, I'm all right.
I'm okay.
I did well.
I mean, I definitely became aware that I was speaking to myself in an unkind way.
And I worked on not doing that anymore.
How did you do it?
I guess I had to sort of just let go of being the best at everything.
I think for a long time that voice you know, my dad's voice or my voice or whatever it was was kind of my main source of motivation to do things like to be high, achieving and really everything that I was doing in my life.
And at a certain point, I just kind of stopped worrying as much about being perfect.
But now I feel like I don't know where to get motivation as well.
I feel like it was all from this judgment, this criticism.
And that's another thing just kind of apart from relationships that i've been thinking about a lot lately it's like how do i get myself to want to do something yeah or better if it doesn't come from a place where i kick myself yeah exactly have you tried yeah i mean i think like there's a lot of things that i want to do that take dedication and hard work for example well like I'm so I'm a violinist and I went through kind of a stage of not you know I used to practice a ton like kind of obsessively and that was definitely driven by a lot of this self-criticism and then I kind of stopped doing that for a while because I was just burned out and I was tired of like evaluating myself based on how well I played the violin and now I really I would like to be practicing more consistently than I do but I don't know it's just hard to find the the internal motivation now now that I don't have that voice saying like you're gonna mess up this audition or you're not gonna know your music for this gig or whatever like i can't really find a place of just enjoyment and wanting to do it for myself um and do you fail the audition no but i'm not usually as perfectly prepared as i would like to be in an ideal world okay but did you miss the audition no No.
So you still get to perform.
You play solo, you play parts of orchestras?
In an orchestra.
Big orchestras or chamber?
Yeah, in a symphony.
Okay.
So, do I hear you correct?
I am less tense.
I don't kick my fingers with my bow.
And yet, I'm not doing any less well.
I just feel that the tight jaw and the harshness isn't present.
And I became so used to identifying that harshness with motivation and drive.
And when I don't have that negative energy inside of me, it almost feels like there is no energy or no drive at all.
But when I look at the actual outcome, It's not necessarily true.
Yeah, that's fair.
Yeah, go ahead.
How do I transfer that into a relationship with a person?
Into my love life?
Yeah.
Let's stay with this, because it's good to go and look in a different part of life and then see what we can apply.
I mean, watch this, right?
For years saying to myself you're stupid, you're nil, nothing's going to come out of you.
What the hell is wrong?
Push yourself, try harder, etc.
Fundamentally, it convinced you that your strength, your drive, your persistence, your six hours of practice a day came from that.
Nothing to do with the love of the violin.
A little bit.
There is some of that.
The poor violin is part of the story after all.
But something inside of you convinced yourself, equated harshness with drive.
Mm-hmm. or motivation.
And the harshness with motivation than with success.
But when you look at what has changed, you realize that by being slightly less self-critical and less harsh, less abusive toward yourself honestly, you still have the drive.
On occasion, maybe not as intensely.
I'm not sure if that means you're less prepared.
I think you may be.
You may have been as less prepared back then because you put as much energy into the fretting around it, but in any case it doesn't change the outcome.
It doesn't make you fail the auditions or not play in a certain orchestra, etc etc.
So that's a very interesting thing to ponder for a moment.
I don't know.
There's just something about it that feels less satisfying.
Like I haven't done it well enough to succeed by other people's standards, but it's just not enough for me.
Right.
I don't know.
But tell me, is it because when you live with a system that says all the time you're going to fail, you're going to fail, you're going to fail, you're going to fail?
Then when you actually get the gig, you think whoosh, I crossed the Rubicon.
I succeeded.
I went against everything I thought about myself.
Of course it feels great.
Whereas here, there's no big fear of failure that stands there warning you.
So when you succeed, it's nice.
It's a small orgasm.
It's not a big orgasm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it feels less intense.
It feels less dramatic.
It feels less epic.
Yeah.
Yeah, I had not thought about that before.
And now that you do?
Yeah, I mean, I did always feel like it, kind of Like when I did succeed, it was kind of against all odds.
And it was very euphoric.
So you went from...
Utter fear to relief to euphoria.
Now you don't have the utter fear, so there is less of the sense of relief.
And there is not necessarily that sense of euphoria.
But the question is is there a sense of calm satisfaction confidence, acquisition of experience maturation, those pieces?
Mm-hmm.
Somewhat.
Yeah.
It's not as intense.
Yeah.
It's not nearly as dramatic.
Yeah.
You don't have the same dopamine rush.
Yeah.
You don't have the same, I'm alive.
Right.
I deserve to be a musician.
Yeah.
I'm not a fraud.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
But on the other side of that is, yes, it's calmer.
It's more confident.
It's more confident.
Yeah.
It makes me feel like I don't care as much.
I know.
I know.
I don't like feeling like I don't care, you know.
If it doesn't make me crazy, if I don't experience the complete passion and fear of annihilation that i i'm a nothing i'm a nobody if i don't feel like it's between life and death then i don't experience enough intensity it's bland it's like i've been so used to eating super spicy food and when it's not burning my palate i don't really feel the taste yeah but you're you have the equivalent of that a little bit it would really be like saving wow i can do it yeah i'm on the other side i can be here i deserve to be here i'm not a failure after all i mean it's all life and death on or off right success or failure fraud or not yeah yeah and on the other side yes it feels more gentle you know but it feels a little bit like where's the flavor where's the excitement where's the release where's the relief where's the i look at myself in the mirror and i like ah you did it you know like i defeated the odds right i beat the obstacle the internal obstacle of course mm-hmm We are in the midst of our session.
There is still so much to talk about, so stay with us.
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Do you think it will start to feel like there's more flavor as I get used to it?
I knew you would ask me that.
I think the first thing is how you interpret it.
If you interpret it as I'm less driven, then you may be distorting it.
If it's not.
Every concert is a proof that I deserve to be a musician.
Then it becomes.
I'm enjoying it more.
Right.
Rather than I saved my skin.
You know, I saved myself from disgrace.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the experience on the other side is when it's simply, I enjoy doing what I love on a daily basis.
It's no longer a test every time I play.
Mm-hmm.
A test not that I played well, a test that I'd even deserve to be a musician in the first place.
And who the hell do you think you are, miss?
Yeah.
That voice, that contemptuous voice.
Mm-hmm.
So, if you ask me, what's on the other side?
It's the joy of doing what you like without having to constantly fear that every time you play or every concert you're doing is a test to your identity, to your self-worth, to your raison d'être, to all of that.
And it is lower.
Some concerts will still bring, because the stakes are always higher and there's a different hall and a different conductor and a different piece to master.
So it's not like there are no challenges, but they're not challenges to your core.
Yeah.
And it's hopefully more pleasant, more serene, but joyful.
Sounds good.
Yeah, we like.
Yeah.
So now you're asking me and how does that translate?
Yeah, tell me the relationship you just started, tell me about you and him.
I mean, it's so early, you know, like we've only known each other for a little while but um, he's very nice, a little bit older not not too much like five years and it's feeling good so far, but there have just been moments where I feel like i just get really anxious about whether i'm doing things right and if you know, he's gonna continue to want to see me and i just want to be able to relax.
You know, does any of this come up?
Um a little bit?
Yeah i, i wouldn't say that i've kind of said all of this to him.
Um, but you're gonna play the podcast Maybe.
Do you think so?
I was just talking about it.
Yeah.
Hey, there's a lot of things about me you don't know.
Things that I have imagined one day I would tell you.
Yeah.
And I thought one way to share some of this with you is for us to listen to this together, or just for you to listen to this, and then we can discuss.
Yeah.
Or you can just surprise him one day when you drive in the car and put this up.
Surprise.
And say, I want to play a piece for you.
And then just watch the response.
I think you know there's a way in which, when you hear a person speak authentically truthfully, like that, about themselves, and you feel a real tenderness to it,
You don't feel actually, I don't want this person.
You actually, it's like a piece of music that uncovers itself.
And you start to hear the undertones and the other layers in the piece.
Yeah, I think that's kind of.
You know, when I start to hear those things in another person, that's when I start to
Like I just, I don't want to lose it, you know, because it's beautiful.
Yeah.
Then I think it will be a very interesting way for you to share some of what you grapple with.
I feel like I'm getting better at noticing when this is happening, but I haven't quite figured out how to like just take a step back and, you know, reconnect with myself.
I was going to say something in reverse.
To ground yourself, what you call to reconnect with yourself.
To ground yourself, you can just literally put your feet on the ground and press on your heels and bring your hands on the top of your knee and press on them so that you're sitting totally up and you're holding the bony handles, the knees, the shoulders, so you really are grounding.
You can do that.
You don't have to think and talk.
You can literally use your body, use your breath to hold your interiority.
You can also, when you start to feel rattled, just take his hands and hold his hand and say nothing, or ask him hold me, and just feels good.
Or say nothing and just breathe in it.
Yeah,
Into his arms.
Basically, use your body to ground, to regulate, and to harness the connection internally.
Mm-hmm.
Rather than the flight.
I leave myself.
I leave my body.
I try to please you just so that you will not leave me.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I feel these things particularly intensely when we're being physically intimate.
And I just, you know, like my body is already otherwise engaged, you know.
And so that sometimes just feels like a situation where I can't, you know, like I'm just I'm kind of trapped a little bit, you know.
Why trapped?
I think I just have a lot of ideas about what I'm supposed to be doing, you know, and.
Do you like to be with him physically?
Yeah.
Yeah, I do.
It hasn't been very many times, but yeah, I think a lot of this just kind of comes to a head in that context, because there's a lot of messaging about what women are supposed to do to keep their men interested in them.
And you know and like, regardless of well, what's one, what's one physical thing that you do that you know for fact is fawning, is i do something that i really don't particularly care about, but i think I don't even know if he does.
But I've learned I was told I read whatever that I should.
And in the process of that, I literally disconnect from myself.
I think it's more at this point, like I've been worried about taking too long.
And...
I've been having a hard time just like being present enough and relaxed enough to really enjoy myself, because there's just this loop going in my head about like you have to hurry or else he's going to get bored.
And, you know, yeah.
Do you fake it?
No.
But then I feel bad because then maybe he feels insecure because I didn't finish and blah blah blah, blah.
And has that been a conversation or not yet?
A little bit.
Yeah, we talked a little bit about just.
I told him that there's kind of a lot of voices in my head and that sometimes it makes it hard to relax.
You know, he was very receptive to that.
And I think it's just hard to trust that he really is going to be okay with it.
And that he's not just saying the right things because they're the right things.
He's saying the right things and you're doing the right things and everybody is.
This is a beautiful look.
You just met.
Yeah.
And all of this needs to come out in conversation.
And the trust is built by taking the risks.
Yeah.
Small steps each time.
The trust is built by your saying, I'm going to take time.
Not just time to come.
Time to get turned on.
Time to feel grounded.
Time to be in my body.
Time to not feel like I'm here to please him only.
Time to find a way to play music together.
Yeah.
And I'm going to be overt about it.
No need to be so indirect.
It's scary.
But you will know.
Because if he welcomes it, or even if he has to adapt to it because he has his own insecurities.
Because it's always insecure when there is nascent love like this.
It's always trepidations.
If he responds in that vein, then you know that there's two people here discovering each other and discovering themselves with the other.
If he starts to become critical, then you probably know that you're in the wrong place.
Yeah.
You know you're in the wrong place, because you're with someone with whom you're going to reactivate this entire mechanism of how you reacted to the critical voice of the man whose love and attention you so yearned for.
Yeah.
I think I just have to be brave enough to let that happen if it's going to happen. to find out that he's not the right match if he isn't.
And it feels safer to like to avoid that kind of discovery, right?
But... No, it doesn't feel safer at all.
Oh.
I don't know.
No, I know in what vein you're saying it, but it doesn't.
It doesn't.
It doesn't feel safer at all.
It just feels like it's the replay.
Mm-hmm.
Of an old story.
But I'm used to it.
Is what I mean.
So you just say to him.
I think I met the person.
With whom I want to learn.
To become more truthful.
I think.
I met the person.
With whom I would like.
To feel that I can.
Be in my body.
And with you.
Mm-hmm.
Do you want that too?
Are you willing to be patient with me?
That is a level of self-assertion that is very different.
It's like you are, I like you enough to want to do this with you.
Take it as a compliment.
And put your fierceness That you've put into yourself criticism.
Into expressing your wish.
Keep that energy.
Keep that fierceness.
But now apply it to your aspirations.
Yes, sounds so good.
I can hear the you know the voices fighting back against this, but you can also have another voice that says so.
I met this woman.
Her name is esther, and she kind of told me to do something that i so deeply wanted and yearned for but was very scared to to ask for.
And yet, there came a tipping point where I felt that not to ask for it.
Do you know the quote of Anaïs Nin?
What is it?
It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source.
It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals.
It dies of illness and wounds.
It dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
So this session ends with my saying, here's to your blossoming.
Thank you.
I really appreciate it.
You are welcome.
This was an Esther Calling a one-time intervention phone call recorded remotely from two points somewhere in the world.
If you have a question you'd like to explore with Esther, it could be answered in a 40 or 50 minute phone call.
Send her a voice message and Esther might just call you.
Send your question to producer at estherperel.com.
Where Should We Begin with Esther Perel is produced by Magnificent Noise.
We're part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. in partnership with New York Magazine and The Cut.
Our production staff includes Eric Newsom, Destry Sibley, Sabrina Farhi, Kristen Muller and Julian Hatt.
Original music and additional production by Paul Schneider.
And the executive producers of Where Should We Begin are Esther Perel and Jesse Baker.
We'd also like to thank Courtney Hamilton, Mary Alice Miller, and Jack Saul.
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