Hi, welcome back to Eat Your Crest podcast.
I'm Jisoo. I'm Crystal.
And I'm Helen. All right, so we have a familiar voice on today.
You might recognize Helen from episode 185, girl talk, some sticky situations, where we put Helen in various hypothetical situations.
And pretty much made her decide whether to stay with someone or not.
Deal breakers, red flags, and whatnot.
So that was a really funny episode.
But today we have a little bit of a different topic for you, Helen.
And we wanted to talk about friendship, specifically the various values that we each kind of carry and hold when we think about friendship.
Let's kick this off by starting with a very simple, but maybe kind of hard to answer question.
What does being a good friend mean to you?
So a good friend, I think that is a very difficult question, because everybody has different standards for what a good friend is.
For me personally, I think it's somebody who really, really, truly cares for you, and someone who can be loyal.
And most importantly, I think someone who is intentional, intentional in the sense that like they want to spend time with you, they want to care for you, they want to put in the effort, and just go that extra mile to be there for you.
But also, these are the standards that I put on myself to be a good friend to my friends.
I think that's my definition of a good friend.
Yeah, I like that. And I feel like that makes a lot of sense.
Intentionality, I feel like is something that comes up a little bit more when I think about friendships now, especially in our adulthood, where all of us are so busy, and we have crazy work schedules, you might have a lot of obligations even outside of work that you're keeping up with.
So I think being able to like carve out time for people is a skill.
And it truly is a big effort.
But something that I kind of think about for this question is, I guess this is a little bit hard to conceptualize, but in my mind, a good friend is someone who feels like home.
So someone who is not blood related to you or can be I guess, but just feels so much like family, and you feel so at peace around them, you feel safe around them and comfortable around them.
And I feel like this is something that you can definitely work towards, but it's not something you can force.
So to me, there's something a little bit under the surface, where it's kind of like innate, there's almost like a base level that you have to meet before you can be really good friends with someone.
So that's one of the qualities that I think about for a good friend.
I think what you both said makes a lot of sense.
Jisoo's idea is kind of like good vibes, like their vibes match with yours.
And then I think Helen, you have the other part where it's like you also put in the work.
And as you mentioned, the intentionality, it definitely matters a lot to see people return the favor kind of or like return the same effort that you do, so that you can feel like you're not in some sort of one sided or like unrequited friendship.
Because I think I've seen in the past, sometimes with my own situation, sometimes with other friends of mine situations, where one person is very willing to say, I don't know, drive up to SF to hang out, the other party is like not willing to drive down, you know, the other parts of the bay to hang
out. And I think that just kind of shows how like priorities differ.
And then it's like, oh, well, why does like only one side of this friendship have to put in the effort all the time to like go up and like travel to hang out when you know, the other side isn't paying it forward as well.
And I think it's things like that, that shows kind of how much like the friendship means to them.
I don't know, personally, for me, I kind of take friendship in a very serious way.
I try to be a good friend and want to try for the people that I truly care about.
For example, like if one of my friends was driving up to SF all the time to see me, but let's say like, I just can't go back down to East Bay or South Bay to see them then I will try to make it up in other ways.
But I feel like there always has to be that balance, the effort.
Yeah, like it doesn't have to be the exact same way that you're returning the effort.
But just like some way that you're showing, you're also invested into the friendship, right?
Right? Actually, I think that's a really important point because even just looking at our definitions, I feel like they're very similar.
But at the same time, it's slightly different, right?
And everyone just has a different definition of a good friend, which means the way that they show their love for a friend can all be very varied.
So I think when I was younger, that concept was so hard for me to grasp, I would be like, Oh, I feel like I'm putting so much into the friendship because I'm doing all these things.
But my friend never does that for me when in reality, they are doing it just in their own way.
So I feel like even coming to that realization was a journey of like, Oh, not everyone has to be the exact type of friend that I am.
And if they were, that would be boring, right?
If we were all the same type of person.
Wait, that's so true.
That's kind of like in relationships, if your love languages aren't the same, you have to like figure out what the best way for you to express yourself is in order for your partner to like feel that love language and like feel loved.
Because ultimately friendships also another form of relationships.
Right. Well, on the flip side, I also want to ask you guys, what do you think it means to be a bad friend?
Are you kind of talking about like the red flags of a friendship?
Yeah, I think red flags could also work.
I think it could also be like, friendships always have their ups and downs.
So what are some signs where you can sense that your friendship is going on like a downturn?
I mean, I feel like friendship is also very dynamic, you know, your life changes, their life changes.
And you guys go through different things.
And I think if they're not able to communicate or put in that effort to communicate with you, then I think that kind of shows that the friendship is kind of dying down.
That was something I had to work on, because for me, like personally, when I am going through something, I'm having a hard time, I tend to shut everyone out.
And I don't respond to any text, I just go MIA.
I thought that was fine, because I just didn't want to put the burden on my friends.
But then on the flip side, my friends called me out on it and they were saying, Hey, if you don't tell us that you're going through something, we're going to keep bothering you and we're going to keep worrying about you.
I was technically being like a bad friend.
And to them, you know, like they thought like, Oh, does she not want to talk to me anymore?
You know, like, so maybe on their end, it was like, Oh, maybe our friendship is going down.
But that was totally not my intention.
It was just, I just need my own time.
But obviously, I failed to communicate that.
After that, that's something I've definitely kept in my mind about.
But also, on the flip side, when my friends did that to me, like where they went, I was like, oh, shit, I'm like, in this panic mode of like, did I do something wrong?
Like, what's going on?
So I think I truly did understand to not be like that.
Yeah, I think communication is key.
Yeah, and I like how you turned a bad friend moment into a good learning moment, how like, your friends called you out and you're like, Oh, shoot, you're right.
Like, I should, you know, communicate more in the future about that.
So I feel like that's not a terrible friend moment, you know, because you really learned from it and like your friendship strengthened friend bit.
So I think you're right.
If it continued that way with like, no communication on either side, it probably would have hurt your friendship overall, without either side even realizing it maybe at first.
But I'm also thinking in terms of a bad friendship moment, I think it's along the similar lines as like, you know, lacking communication.
If someone just always makes everything about themselves, if say you're trying to communicate to a friend, and it's just like not getting through to them, because they keep trying to like make everything about themselves.
I feel like that is also like a red flag and in friendships.
I can totally agree.
Like you are saying something, but you feel like it's not getting heard.
Yeah. And I think that's important to like, in a friendship, you want to feel seen that like, 90 % of the point of friendship I feel like so I can see how that's frustrating.
I feel like my bad friend moment is actually kind of opposite of Helen's.
I'm thinking back to high school college times when I would sometimes like talk to my mom and I would be like, Oh man, like this friend didn't hit me up or like haven't texted me back or like I haven't heard from them.
Or I would be like, Oh, this person has been acting really different lately.
And it's starting to like really get on my nerves.
And something that my mom told me once was people go through so much in their life that you don't always see even if you are like best friends with this person.
So it's really not something that you should try to fully know, you shouldn't feel entitled to know everything that's going on in their life.
And if they are going through something, then maybe later on, they'll tell you but if not, like who cares like this person is your friend and someone you care about and you just like let it go and give them the benefit of the doubt.
And I don't know, maybe to a lot of people, this comes way more naturally.
But to me, it was like a huge learning moment where I was like, yeah, that is very true.
And I think it helped a lot to hear that explicitly from my mom to learn to just accept people as they are.
So that's something that I think about like to this day, and I feel like I have to like constantly channel it a little bit.
But I think if you aren't understanding and you aren't accepting of your friend, you are being kind of a bad friend to them.
Dude, actually, I saw something about that on tiktok.
I forgot what they called it.
But it's basically like, you recognize what your friend's big fatal flaws, and then you learn to accept that.
So if it's something like, they're just always late, you just learn to accept that.
And then you don't let it bother you anymore.
You're like, I recognize that they're just always late.
And I won't let that bother myself.
And it's just a part of life.
And then that takes a lot of pressure off of both sides.
Dang, I forgot what it's called.
But I remember seeing a lot of that on tiktok.
And I feel like that's pretty much what your mom is saying.
Right. And I think it's kind of a funny position too.
Because on one hand, these are some people who you're like the closest to, right?
So I feel like you're in a position where you can maybe poke fun at their flaws, or you are kind of in a position to be able to like, call things out if it gets really bad.
But at the same time, as someone who is super close to this person, you should be the most accepting and the most understanding.
So you're kind of at a crossroads, I guess, of options.
Sorry, this is kind of off topic.
But have you guys heard of light gassing?
Whoa. No, is that like gaslighting?
So it's a little bit different.
Just like quickly thought tiktok video about it.
But it's like a lot of friends that light gas you are actually like toxic friends is what the video was trying to say.
It says light gassing is when one person agrees with or validates another person's false beliefs or misconceptions in order to be supported.
Oh, you clearly know that what they're thinking is wrong, but you just like keep supporting them just like to be quote unquote, a good friend.
So do you guys think that is acceptable?
Personally, for me, like for my friends, I try to be as supportive as possible.
But sometimes, like my friends get mad at me because I won't support them in certain things that they're truly like passionate about.
Because I'm like, well, I kind of have my own beliefs too.
And I think not something I can support you with.
But then I know some people that are also like very, very supportive of their friends.
No matter what they do, or no matter what happens.
What do you guys think about that in a friendship?
I mean, that's so hard.
I think I feel like the instinct almost is two pronged to where it is like, okay, do I want to hold strong to my own opinions and beliefs slash hold my friend accountable for like maybe problematic thoughts that they might be sharing?
But also at the same time, I feel like I should be a safe space for my friend who feels comfortable enough around me to like share these things very like frankly and openly.
So I think I can definitely recall some moments where I'm like, Oh, gosh, I just feel like yeah, like period.
Or should I be like, Okay, let's sit down and have a serious conversation about this.
But I don't know, I think my take is that if it's not that serious, it's probably fine to just be like, okay, yeah, that's fine.
I support you. But if it gets to a certain point and crosses a line, then I feel like I would actually have to sit down and have a talk with them.
Yeah, it's pretty tough.
My instinct is similar, right?
Like I want to support my friend.
But yeah, probably if it's something that's kind of like, Oh, actually, I don't know about that.
Maybe I would be more silent and like like you keep talking, but I don't know if I'm necessarily supporting this.
Maybe they just need someone to listen and not even necessarily agree just for them to like vent.
And then you could be like, Oh, yeah, I hear what you're saying.
But I don't know if I agree.
I think it depends on the friend to actually, like people are more receptive, and maybe more open slash maybe might be even seeking feedback on something that they're sharing, but other people might just be like, you said, Crystal, literally just telling you what's up and not expecting anything back.
So it is very case by case.
Yeah. Like imagine just this crazy hypothetical where one of your friends is like, Dude, I'm gonna like go kill someone or something like you'd probably be like, holy shit.
Like, pause. Like what are you talking about?
Don't do that. So I feel like you're right.
Like there's definitely a line where you're just like, okay, actually, I might have to say something about this.
But like, maybe sometimes you can just kind of get away with being a little more quiet.
Yeah, I think it is depending on like what the topic is about.
I think the most common ones that I've seen is like when they're in like a very toxic relationship, and they think that the partner is good for them.
But clearly, like everything you've seen, everything they tell you is clearly toxic and not good for them.
But some friends are just like, Oh, yeah, it shows you that much love.
Yeah, you should stay with him.
But personally, I would not be like that, you know?
Okay, well, you've done this, but like, keep that in your head.
I think recently, it's just one of my friends was like kind of in a really bad relationship.
And like, all her other friends have told her like, Oh, don't worry about it.
Like, if you want to stay with him, you should just stay with him.
But then obviously, like I had a very different opinion about it, because I want her to be safe.
And like, I don't want her to be in a relationship that hurts her.
I was like, Oh my god, is that the definition of light casting from your other friends?
Like, I feel like in that case, you almost have to like duo with someone and play good cop bad cop, because I do think it's important to sometimes be like, okay, I'm actually not fucking around.
Like, I think this is very bad for you and unsafe.
But at the same time, like people need to be there to feel safe to like vent to if things happen, or like, not that you are being judging.
But I have been in a place where I feel like my friends were in a bad relationship.
And I was very openly like judgmental about it.
And then later I realized that I was really just alienating them from being okay, like coming to me after when things did go wrong, because, you know, I would be in like a weird position to them, I guess.
So maybe if you like duo with your friend, and you're like, okay, I'm gonna put my foot down today, but you be the nice person, then it actually works out super well.
I guess in that case, your friend probably wouldn't want to go talk to you because they'll know, like, you'll say something they don't want to hear, even though it is kind of something they should hear.
Yeah, I feel like it's pretty tough to because like, sometimes the friend has to be in the right mindset to take criticisms.
If they're not ready for that, you kind of just have to like play along.
And maybe, I don't know, like suddenly hint at these things.
And then later you'll be like, I knew it.
Well, now that we've kind of defined what it looks like to be a good friend, and also a bad friend in our viewpoints, I want to move into like more action related things.
So what is something that you think you try to be proactive about in your friendships?
Or any sort of small thing here and there that you try to make sure you tick the boxes on?
For me, like a small thing that I like to do is whenever my friends are going somewhere, like they're taking a flight or something, I would write it down.
And then that day, I would just text them like, say travel, say flight, and I will Venmo them like 10 bucks like coffee for your early flight or like, enjoy a drink just kind of like that just to show them that I'm glad they are like on their trip or I fully support you having a good time.
I think that's like my little action of like trying to be proactive and showing that I do care and I am listening.
That's so cute. That's like white crystal does actually.
Oh, really? Wait, I don't Venmo 10 bucks though.
Helen's above and beyond.
Helen's like an A plus.
I'm like a B plus. But I think I do try to remember generally, if someone mentions like, Oh, I'm going to be traveling this time, I'll be like, Oh, my god, have a safe flight.
Yeah, I think it's kind of like what you said.
It's just nice to show them that they're in your thoughts.
You remembered what they told you.
You're like paying attention.
I mean, I think a easy and very common one is birthday stuff.
So anytime it's someone's birthday, making sure to be there for whatever celebration they're doing, or at the very least, like take them out to dinner or something like that afterwards.
One that I am bad at, I've been trying to get a little bit better at is being more supportive on social media.
Mmm. So I'm like not a huge Instagram person.
But I have been trying to be more active in like liking people's stories or like responding to them or, you know, leaving like the heart eyes comments on people's posts and stuff.
And it's something that I like have to actively remember to do because it's not super first nature to me.
It's like interacting.
Yeah. Over social media.
This is a good one.
And I'm like similar to where I want to like comment on friends Instagram posts, but I like don't know what to do.
So I just put a bunch of emojis.
And then sometimes I'm like, dude, this emoji isn't really me because you know how I think like the standard emojis people will post are like heart eyes, hearts, fire, stuff like that.
And I'm like, dude, I don't know.
That's like not really me.
Crystal is like thumbs up.
I'm like sick photo.
Do I was laughing my ass off the other day, you just triggered my memory because one of our friends made like a post.
And it was like beautiful photos with her and her fiance.
I was like, Oh my god, so cute.
But I didn't know what to comment.
So I just did the very generic teary eyed smiley face like two of those and the two pink hearts or something.
But Instagram has this feature where if you comment on someone's post, your mutual friends commenting on that same post will notify you.
Right? So I got a notification, it was like, crystal also commented the same two emojis but order swapped.
And I was like, holy fuck.
Wait, I fucking saw that.
After I posted, I like, rolled up a bit and I was like, Oh my god, she posted the exact same thing.
We saw it's unintentional.
Oh my god. Hey, that means you guys think alike.
That's true. It means we're both trying.
We're both awkward on social media.
Well, but yeah, the social media one is a good one.
Anything else you guys try to do?
I think one of my top love languages for like friendship and for relationships is gifts.
So I think sometimes if I'm like traveling or just out and I see something that I like know a specific friend likes, then I'll try to pick it up for them and like give it to them the next time I see them.
I remember one time I was at a pop mart or something and I saw these mythi blind boxes and I was like, Oh my god, my friend is obsessed with mythi.
Let me just pick one of these up for her.
Kind of stuff like that.
That's actually really sweet because it shows that you're like thinking of them even when you're not with them, sometimes.
Okay. Like money budget.
If I can't find for them, I'll just take a picture and be like, Oh my god, this reminds me of you.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true.
I'm not like out here trying to buy super expensive stuff.
Usually it's like, you know, a small token, like a couple dollars or something like that.
That's a good one though.
I think like whether it's a photo of something or a physical gift, it's so sweet to think about your friend elsewhere doing stuff with other people and just like having you in their mind.
It's like, Oh my god, I'm so special.
You got this for me, or you thought of me.
Yeah, I think in that same sense, I almost feel like memes or like TikToks and sending that to friends can also be a huge love language.
Because it's like I could have said this to anyone on my list, but I chose to send it to you.
Like there's intentionality and meaning behind that too.
And you guys like share the same humor.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, this is kind of a funny one.
But we recently just did an episode about fantasy football because Jisoo and I are doing fantasy for the first time this year with a bunch of our friends.
And I've only kind of started doing this.
But sometimes when Jesus players injured or like coming back from injury, I'll text her like the tweet update, I'll be like, Hey, your players like coming back soon.
I'm like, Oh my god, this is news to me.
Thank you, Crystal.
You don't even know your own player.
I'm like the girls in this league need to win.
That is very sweet.
Oh my god, the other day, Crystal texted me like paragraphs of analysis about this one trade that happened in our league.
And I was like, this is actually labor of love, like who would do this for their friend?
She really, really cares about you.
Which I think actually leads pretty well into the next question that I have for you guys, which are like green flags for friendship.
And I think that fantasy football analysis example is actually a really good one.
Because with friends, some of the things that I've done for my friends or my friends have done for me, if I sit down and think about it, I just get so touched of like, wow, this person really cares for me, and went out of their way to do something for me or for us and took time out of their day.
And I think that's a huge green flag, someone who is generous with their time, their attention, money sometimes, and is willing to kind of put that and invest it into your friendship.
Oh, I think a good green flag is people are willing to do any like small favors that you might ask them, maybe something as simple as oh, we're about to like carpool somewhere.
Can you bring me a bottle of water, you know, just signs that they're willing to like, put in some effort to do a small favor for you.
I feel like as I get older, time is like a huge gift from your friends.
And then second is that actions just speak so much louder than words.
Even the small papers that you were talking about mean so much more than like when I was younger.
I think another like green flag for friendship is a friend that can truly celebrate your wins.
They're just as happy for you.
They're like truly, truly like happy for you or they really support you.
Yeah, I think I like realized that recently just because I had some big milestones.
And I don't know if you felt it for your wedding, because that's like another milestone for your life.
But like, in those big moments, you can tell who's truly, truly happy for you.
And, and who's just like there for you.
That's when I was touched by like some of my friends.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, I didn't think you'd be this happy for me, but you are.
And I'm so thankful for that, you know.
That's a good one. Yeah, I remember seeing some friends cry at the wedding.
And I think it is common for people to like tear up here and there at weddings.
But I saw one of our friends cry.
And I was like so shocked that she was crying.
And I was thinking about it.
And I was like, Yeah, that is like a marker of a very good friend.
Like you said, people who are very, very happy for you in big moments.
And I think the way that it touched me was like, she looked just as happy as she would have been for like her own wedding.
You know, and I was like, wow, that's like a very rare thing to see.
So I can totally resonate with that.
It's like the genuine, genuineness.
I think another green flag for friendship that I've seen in my life is actually people who check in a lot.
I think the older I get, the more I have to like sit down and think and remember to check in with people.
So I know how much thought that actually takes.
It's not just like a simple action and gesture.
Even though sometimes it might feel like that, I feel like you actually have to kind of sit down and be like, Oh, I haven't talked to this person in a while, I'm going to check in.
So now when my friends do it to me, especially people who live further away or might be super busy with their own lives, I do get really touched.
And I think that's a huge green flag.
And I think it's harder with long distance friendships, because obviously you guys can't think out as much.
You have to figure out other ways to kind of keep in touch or to check in with one another.
I feel like long distance friendship is a whole different thing too.
True. Yeah, good point.
I think maybe this is kind of in line with what we said earlier in the towards the beginning of the episode, but someone who like takes time to really understand your personality and how that might fit with theirs.
So for example, if maybe you're more of an introvert, and your friend is more of an extrovert, they understand that they can't always just push you to like go out with them.
I think that is like definitely a green flag, I guess, to put it into shorter words is like, that they recognize and respect boundaries.
I think respecting each other's boundaries is like another huge, important factor in a friendship, just because everybody has different needs and wants to.
Yeah, I think it's like we've been kind of saying it throughout the episode how everyone shows their love and care in different ways.
And everyone is also just like a different person in general.
So it's like we have to recognize and accept that and then that's where like friendship really starts to bloom.
Do you guys have any experiences where you had to kind of explicitly draw out boundaries or maybe the reverse someone had to kind of sit down and set boundaries with you?
Or I guess even times where you thought about it and then you were like, I should really set boundaries and then you decided not to do anything.
I think setting boundaries is definitely one of the things I struggle with the most.
I'm just more of a private person when it comes to certain things.
And I just like to keep it to myself.
As I said earlier, like I realized I have to communicate that or else the other person might not know.
Like you know how some friends are very, very open and they will just yap and yap and yap almost everything and anything.
And for them, that's great because I love listening to that.
But at the same time, like please don't expect me to do the same because I don't share everything.
There are just certain things I don't want to share.
Once again, communication is key to setting those boundaries.
I think communication is really hard though.
And it's hard for me to think of times where there was explicit boundary setting, but I feel like in a lot of ways, maybe there were like passive boundaries that were set.
So not verbally explicitly communicated.
But maybe through actions or even like reactions to stuff, I feel like there has been boundary setting and friendships.
So one example I can think of is maybe there's a touchy subject with someone and then you kind of slowly learn to not bring that up or not talk about it in like a specific manner.
You know, like maybe don't joke about that.
But you can talk about it delicately that kind of thing.
Another thing that I've experienced on both sides actually is like frequency of hangouts.
I feel like it's something that kind of has to be compromised on.
So Crystal, you talk about an introvert is a good example.
Like some people might not want to hang out that much or might be super, super busy with their schedule and other people might feel more joy the more you see them, you know.
So then I feel like aligning on something like that as subtle and as passive as it may be is still a form of boundary setting that I think is important.
I guess the other one could be when you need to leave a hangout.
Sometimes, you know, you go into a hangout.
You're like, okay, I need to leave early today because I have something going on the next day or something of that sort.
That is kind of a boundary.
And it does sometimes get difficult at the end of the night.
But like knowing when to be like, okay, we like gotta go or like I gotta go and letting that person go is definitely a more lighthearted version of boundaries.
When situations like that happen, how do you guys tell people to leave?
I think the easiest way sometimes is if you tell someone else who's like also an attendee versus the host, and you're like, okay, dude, like, I think I'm going to try to leave at like 10pm today.
The other person might be like, oh my god, me too.
That sounds good. Let's keep each other account.
And then once 10pm hits, then you look towards them.
You're like, should we go?
It's like 10pm. And then I think it goes either two ways.
Either one, the other person's like, Oh my god, you should go ahead.
I'll cover for you.
Like go just sneak out or something, right?
Or they're like, Oh my god, yeah, like let's go.
Or maybe they're like, give me like 10 minutes.
Let me just say bye.
And then let's head out.
And I feel like that usually works out well, because you have like the backup to defend if any other attendee or host is like, wait, no, please stay.
Again, again, the duoing method is foolproof.
Dude, even better if it's like you bring an SO and you're like, oh, no, actually, it's not even me.
It's like them, you know, like they have something to do.
So what happens if you do set boundaries with a friend and it doesn't work out?
Is that a huge red slash yellow flag?
I think that's a pretty yellow flag, because that means they're not respecting you.
I think it also depends on the boundary, like how severe the boundary or how important the boundary is.
Because if it's like a pretty big one, and they're like not respecting it, it's probably starting to border more on like red.
But if it's like kind of inconsequential, it might be a little more like yellowish beige.
I guess it could also be like if you try to passively set boundaries first and that doesn't work out, the next step is to like explicitly do it.
So maybe switching up the seriousness of how you're setting the boundaries could also kind of help move things along.
Yeah, that's true. I feel like the closer you are to a friend, the easier it is to set boundaries.
Yeah, yeah, because usually they're like, very understanding.
Or like you just know how to approach that person.
True. It's just like a lot easier.
But I think it's always like newer friendships that is harder, just because like you don't know how to say it, or you don't know how to hint it, or like, that's so true.
Because now that I'm thinking about it, sometimes boundaries are maybe set up a little more subtly over time.
Like kind of what Jisoo was saying earlier, sometimes you just slowly learn like this is a sensitive topic for this friend.
So let's not talk too much about it or like approach it delicately.
But with a new friend, they might not know.
And so if they like come in barreling through this topic, you're kind of like, oh, well, they don't know.
So it's like, fine.
I think you have a really good point there, Helen.
Sometimes in the beginning, these boundaries haven't even had time to like, get set yet.
And like they just get broken through.
That's true. It's like no man's land, but like older friendships have like a map already.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you guys have any other yellow or red flags?
I think if they're really flaky in the beginning stages of your friendship, when you're trying to build your friendship up, and they're being really flaky, it can feel hurtful because you're like, oh, I was excited about this friendship.
But why is everything always getting pushed back or like canceled and think it like kills the momentum really quickly?
Not to say that like flakiness is great in like a longer friendship.
But I do think in older friendships, maybe it's just something that you've learned to accept from someone not to say any names.
But we do have a friend who tends to be a little flakier, but they've worked on it.
And, you know, that's like all we can ask.
And we're like, okay, if they do, if they are a little late or like a little flaky, we just know like, ah, that's just how they are.
I guess this is a little bit more of a yellow flag.
But one yellow flag that I've seen is maybe like lack of effort in conversations or hangouts.
So sometimes I think that manifests in like a lot of awkward silence or something when you're hanging out with someone.
And then other times it manifests in like, you feel like you're always the one setting things up being like, Oh, let's hang out and having like an idea on what to do.
And I feel like that can get old fairly fast.
And actually, I think this is one yellow flag that is very easy to fix.
As soon as you communicate something like this, if your friend is receptive to that, then it's something that can easily change.
But it is a yellow flag that I have experienced.
I guess you could also force the friend's hand.
You'd be like, Hey, want to hang out on Tuesday?
And they're like, Yeah, sure.
And then you'd be like, Okay, you should pick somewhere to eat.
Yeah. You just force them to like, make the decision.
And I guess the other thing too, is like, it's not always a yellow flag.
Because say your friend is always very invested in the hangout when you show up and hang, but they will never be the one to choose the method or like the location or restaurant.
To me, I think that's okay.
Because at least when you're hanging out, it's fine.
So that just means that in this friendship, you're going to be the one picking stuff.
And that's like, okay.
But it's when it's like both things or maybe just like chronically one thing that it's just like, okay, like, are we is this a healthy friendship right now?
I think it's really about the quality times that you spend when you guys are with each other during hangouts.
For example, I have a friend who is very just not good at texting, it is like a long distance friendship.
But she's just not good at texting or like checking in or whatever.
But whenever we do hang out, it's like as if nothing has changed.
Everything's still good.
And you know, we're having so much fun.
At first, I was not used to it.
And I was like, Oh, like, I think that's a yellow flag or red flag.
Like I don't think I don't think this friendship is gonna last.
But then every time I am physically like hanging out, I'm like, Oh my God, we're having so much fun together.
Like we're having good conversations.
Of course, she's one of my closest friends.
It always like flip flops.
But then I had to like learn that she's just not a good texter.
But he is a good friend.
Okay, I also have a yellow flag.
But this is just completely subjective.
Sometimes their vibe just doesn't match yours.
So sometimes I think you just have to accept it that maybe you two don't vibe as well as you had hoped.
And maybe that just means they can't be like a really good friend, but they could still be a friend an acquaintance.
I think a red flag also when there's certain friends that only contact you when they need something.
Yeah. I think for me, that's like a very big red flag.
Because I think I personally get hurt when that happens.
Yeah, like it feels very transactional.
Oh, yeah. I think that's a good word.
I think maybe another one is if they're always bringing the mood down, because I think someone can complain but make it fun.
But if someone's like kind of just like shitting on everything and just really bringing the mood down, I think that can be kind of a yellow to red flag.
Especially if it's like maybe you're talking about something you like, their responses are just shitting on it.
Whether it's like outwardly or subtly.
I think that like kind of kills the vibe.
Oh, for sure. Or they show like an interested vibe.
I think actually, okay, I don't know if this is like a universal one.
Or maybe this is just a thing.
I think a yellow flag for me, and this is definitely more so for like, new friendships.
But a yellow flag is like when their lifestyle just seems like really, really crazily different from mine.
More so if they're friends with people that I feel like are very bad vibes.
I think that is kind of a yellow flag for me, which is kind of shitty because in one sense, the friendship is between you and this other person anyways.
So you almost should be isolating that from their like friends.
But I don't know something about like seeing people's friends.
And if I feel like I'm getting really bad vibes from their friends, it makes me kind of see people in a different light.
I don't know if that's kind of shitty.
No, I think that's fair, because isn't there that saying that like you're the average of all the people you hang out with?
So if you know, this one person has kind of a bad crowd that they're hanging out with, it probably does speak a bit to some traits that they might have.
They might not be exactly like their friends, but their friends for a reason, there has to be something common, right?
No, I don't think it's not just that you think I think more common than you think.
Yeah, because I think someone could totally be very different from you.
But in like a very positive way, right?
You're like, Oh, my God, I'm learning so much from you versus like, Oh, like, you're so different, but it's like not in a positive way.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I think another probably just a bad flag.
I don't know if it's yellow or red.
I think this is kind of in line with the boundaries thing.
But like, if they're really disrespectful to your space, so anything from like your things to, you know, your home, your car, I'm just imagining if someone were to like, be invited over to your home and they just trashed it.
Yeah, you gave them a ride and they just like left a mess behind.
I think that's pretty annoying.
Not too great. I once had this experience where I was just starting to become friends with someone.
I was like, Oh, this person is pretty cool.
And then once she asked me for like a ride home, so I was driving her back.
And then she put her feet on my dash.
Oh, and like she was wearing like flip flops at the time, right.
So it was like her bare feet.
And I was like, that's fucking crazy.
I don't think we can be friends anymore.
I did not want to see your feet up there.
I didn't even say anything.
Or actually, I think I did.
But it was kind of passive aggressive.
I was like, Oh, sorry, I like to keep my car like a little clean.
Do you mind not doing that or something?
But then the whole time after every time I saw her, that was all I could think of.
I was like, dude, you put your fucking feet on my dad.
That's also dangerous.
That's all funny, though.
I feel like a lot of friendship is just kind of based on what kind of person they are.
Personally, for me, it's like how I decide whether I want to become friends with them is I think like first just kind of, I guess judging, but not judging what kind of person they are.
Are they the type of person that I want in my life?
Or am I just trying to make friends just make friends?
Because I don't know.
I think at this point in my life or at my age, I don't want to spend all the time and effort into a friendship that I know is just not going to work out.
That's fair, especially because like our time is becoming more and more limited.
As we get older, we have more like responsibilities and obligations.
It's not really about making as many friends as you can anymore.
It's more about making good and like meaningful friendships, right?
I think it truly is quality over quantity, which is interesting because that kind of goes to show at certain ages in our lives.
It kind of is quantity over quality.
Dude, definitely. Yeah, but it's so weird to think how the mindset changed.
If you think about it, elementary school, junior high, high school, that's all like quantity over quality, right?
Because you want to be like the popular kid or whatever, or that's always made to be seen as like the goal through media, right?
It's like, Oh, like that person has so many friends or whatever.
But honestly, if you just had a couple of really good friends going through school, I feel like that is very valuable.
And I think the running joke back in like college or whatever is the same people would hang out and then we'd be like, Oh, no new friends and like roast ourselves.
But I feel like those are the same friends we still hang out with to this day.
And that is so meaningful.
I think that's rare and definitely something not to like take for granted.
Yeah. So maybe no new friends was not too bad.
Do you guys feel like you've made new friends recently?
Dude, I was actually thinking about this literally yesterday on my drive back from the grocery store.
I was like, have I been making new friends?
To be honest, I don't think I've made new friends in my personal social life, but I have been making some new friends at work.
And I was like, You know what, that is good enough.
I don't need to make too many new friends in my personal social life.
I think that's already very like fulfilled, but it's kind of also cool to grow friendships in other aspects of life.
Yeah, I feel like if I think about the last, I guess six years now since college graduation, I can just like sit down and name for you all the new friends that I've made since college, which means the list is not very long, right?
But I feel like all of those friends that I've made are still good friends now.
Yeah, maybe not too bad of a trade off, although the drop in pace of like friend making is slightly concerning.
That's true. I think mine like kind of stopped after high school.
Hmm. I think I feel similarly, it definitely slowed down a lot post high school.
Yeah. I think when we are in school, we're kind of forced to be with each other.
So it's a lot easier to get to know one another and pick and choose your people.
But when you're at work and everyone's doing their own thing, it's, it's a lot harder.
Yeah, definitely. Which is so funny, because when I was young, sometimes we would eat dinner with my dad's work friends and their families.
And I remember thinking like, dude, what's a work friend?
You're not really friends.
You're just like colleagues, you know.
And now that I'm older, I get it.
I'm like, yeah, work friends are real.
Oh my God, actually, that's a good point.
I totally questioned that before too.
I maybe questioned how deep a work connection could be.
Because there's always this level of professionalism you have to uphold.
But yeah, now that I'm, you know, a person in work, I'm like, oh, yeah, like these connections can actually be really meaningful and deep.
And I think your work friends are the only ones that can truly understand your struggles at work.
True. You can tell your best friend all about work and they might not understand everything, but your work friend probably will.
It's like that meme where me and my best friend have been friends for like 10 plus years, but I don't even know what they do.
But honestly, that's true.
Like, I kind of don't know what my best friends do.
I know. There's nothing like one of those conversations with your work friend after a very traumatic week, where you just look at each other and you're like, holy shit, like what happened this week?
That's a different type of relationship.
Yeah. Well, I think we had a really good talk about what friendship kind of is to us and how we view good or bad flags within a friendship and how we kind of recognize that within ourselves as well.
And I think ultimately, what we agreed upon a lot is that good friends are very accepting of each other and kind of learn to like adapt with each other's personalities.
So thank you so much, Helen, for joining us.
I think those are really insightful and fun conversation.
And for our listeners out there, if you have any thoughts on red, green, or yellow flags within friendships, feel free to reach out to us.
We have Instagram at Eat Your Cross Pod and we also have email eatyourcrosspodatgmail .com.
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Thanks for listening.
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