Discussion keeps the Hello welcome to Roundtable where we serve up piping hot debates on the issues that sizzle in China and beyond.
I'm Niu Honglin.
October 24th marks the United Nations Day, and on our show we've been marking the occasion with a special series.
For the grand finale, Roundtable's He Yang is joined by Dong Xiaoman, who brings her own UN experience from UN OPS and the UN Youth Office.
Stay tuned for an insider's take on making an impact at the UN.
For this episode, I'm joined by Yushan and Steve Hatherly.
Now grab your virtual compass and follow us to the heart of the discussion.
Today, we air the last episode of our UN 80th Anniversary Series.
In it Roundtable's He Yang speaks with Dong Xiaoman, who has previously served at the United Nations Office for Project Services and the United Nations Youth Office.
During her tenure at the Youth Office, Dong secured more than 300 speaking opportunities for 17 young leaders at conferences and events throughout the UN system, including a notable appearance at the opening of the 2023 UN General Assembly.
She has her insider's perspective about the United Nations mechanism.
How can a young talent help contribute to international governance and China's increasingly important role in the UN?
Please enjoy.
Dr. Dong, welcome to Roundtable.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me for this program.
And feel free to call me Xiaoman.
All righty.
By the way, what doctorate degree did you devote your time to?
I did a doctorate in international relations. very suited for everything you've done since.
And it's fascinating to see how personal journeys intersect with global institutions.
Xiaomen, you've had a long standing connection with the United Nations, both in your research interests and in your work.
What sparked your interest in engaging with the United Nations system initially?
I think even as a kid, I was always passionate about justice and fairness.
You know how we all went through that phase in early childhood when every single adult in your life would ask you what you want to be when you grow up.
And I used to say I want to be a police officer because I was really drawn to the concept of like, making it right.
And for the same reason, I majored in philosophy during college, with a focus on political philosophy.
And after university I was really eager to apply for UN volunteers, but there was like an age requirement of at least 21 years old, I think, and I didn't qualify at the time.
So I waited until I finished my master degree, and then I saw a UNV recruitment opportunity in Beijing and I immediately applied.
That led to my first position as a project assistant at the United Nations Office for Project Services at Beijing office that's UNOPS, which was really my first entry point to the UN system.
And then I left UNOBS to pursue my PhD, where I focused my dissertation on refugee studies, including examining the challenges faced by young refugee populations.
And my research also explored the functions and limitations of international organizations like UNHCR, which really deepened my understanding of how these institutions work in practice.
And so, after completing my PhD, I then joined the School of International Organizations at Beijing Foreign Studies University as a lecturer and as a coordinator for international affairs.
And we're really a group of passionate young scholars with high hopes for institutions like the United Nations.
So part of our job was to like took on the course with UN agencies like UNITAR, and I helped, coordinated and operated these programs.
And then later I collaborated with my former supervisors and colleagues from the UNOPS to design a capstone course.
And many students from that program went on to have internships in international organizations like the United Nations.
And that was like really incredibly rewarding to see.
And that journey really culminated in 2023 when I received a JPO opportunity to work at the UN Youth Office.
And it felt like coming to full circle from that childhood desire to work on issues related to justice and fairness just on a much larger and global scale than I had originally.
Yeah, it does sound like a full circle indeed.
And if we could just go back to the beginning a little bit.
I remember as a Chinese kid in a Chinese classroom, lots of people were talking about oh, maybe I want to become a scientist.
And nowadays, if you talk to Gen Z, actually Gen Alpha, I would think.
They probably want to be Internet celebrities.
But for you as a Chinese girl wanting to become a police officer, was that a little bit unusual?
And do you think there are some deeper threads in your life, sort of that connected thread, that dream, to what you do today?
Well, you know what?
So this story of me wanting to be a police officer?
I do not remember saying that and that was actually from my grandparents.
So my grandparents told me that when I was first asked about what I want to do as a police officer.
So I gotta, I gotta be honest.
I have no memory about that, but I understand that as like my background story, because I think as, even though I don't remember saying that, I do remember like the feeling passionate about the everything coming into my life where it comes across justice and fairness problems.
And I always become quite enthusiastic in pursuing that threat.
So I'm assuming that's just part of me, part of my DNA or something.
Many of us think of the UN as a distant and gigantic bureaucracy, but stories like yours show us that behind every policy initiative is possibly a person inspired by ideals, and sometimes by their own culture's vision of cooperation and development and peace.
From your perspective, how does the United Nations contribute in today's world?
What impact do you think it has on international cooperation now?
And are you optimistic for it to expand its impact in the future?
The United Nations today operates in a world that looks very different from 1945, when it was first founded.
And we now have a very multipolar global system with multiple centers of power, which creates both opportunities and real constraints for what the organization can accomplish.
And I think it helps to be honest about where the UN works well and where it struggles.
The organization continues to demonstrate effectiveness in technical and humanitarian areas, where countries can find common ground more easily.
So we can look at organizations like WHO, for example, their coordination during health emergencies, or UNICEF's child welfare programs or the World Food Program's humanitarian responses.
These, I think, represent areas where the UN systems produce tangible results.
That really improves lives.
At the same time, I think we also need to acknowledge that UN faces serious problems with ineffectiveness and bureaucracy paralysis as well.
As I was working at the UN office, I can feel like the UN system really suffers from overlapping mandates across agencies.
And sometimes slow decision-making processes can take years to produce actionable outcomes.
So these are also problems we need to really address.
I think the UN's continued relevancy depends on its ability to demonstrate tangible values in addressing emerging challenges.
And there's no doubt that the UN remains the single most effective forum for all member states to come together to, if not solve issues, to at least discuss issues right.
So the organizations, I think, really must find ways to become more responsive and result oriented, while maintaining its legitimacy as the world's primary multilateral forum.
I think there's no doubt that the UN is doing a lot of incredible work, but there's also places where we can improve.
That's really interesting.
We can see UN as a huge organization that's celebrating its 80th birthday this year, and for a person hitting the big 80, that means there are a lot of changes that it must sort of adjust to.
And what do you see as the most remarkable things that come out of the un during your observation of how the organization has evolved?
And what's one thing that you would really like to see some immediate change?
I think we all know there's this rumor coming around how the UN is undergoing a big reform In response to the problems that I just mentioned.
For me personally, I can see that The leaders of the United Nations really understand the problem that they're facing.
They're not trying to avoid it.
They're not trying to ignore them.
And they really do try to fix the bureaucracy issues by merging many agencies together to make sure there's no overlapping mandates, or at least fewer overlapping mandates.
So I think it's called UN80 reform.
That's definitely one of the most important work that the UN is undergoing right now.
We're not really seeing where it leads to yet, but I think it represents a huge direction that the UN is taking, that is, again to reduce overlapping mandates and to reduce the bureaucracy paralysis.
And was that one remarkable thing?
That when you are talking to your friends about the UN, what you do and you're most proud of?
My personal job?
Yes, go for it.
For me really, I think working to integrate our discourse with global frameworks and sometimes introducing Chinese concepts into UN documents and speeches.
These are really some of the most satisfying work I've ever done.
So I'm really proud to say that whenever I see a chance, I jump at the opportunity to bridge our discourse with the international framework, and I do so without any reservations.
And you've even helped to introduce the Chinese notion of a community with a shared future for humanity into official UN documents.
Could you walk us through that experience?
And I can see you're very proud of it, and I can feel it too.
What inspired you to bring a Chinese perspective into the UN discourse?
Right, so the one you asked about was actually not the first time I tried to do that, but it was definitely.
One of the highlights for me.
So this was, I think, in April 2024, when the UN Youth Office was going to publish an open letter to world leaders that will eventually receive endorsement from the Secretary General, Antonio Guterres.
And at the time my supervisor actually drafted the original English letter and I was given the task to translate that letter into Chinese.
And of course I saw this as an easy window to bridge discourses.
And there were several entry points in the letter, actually.
And one of them was the original letter reads as young people and allies, we are rallying together as a global community to make our voices heard.
And so I translated global community to a community of shared future for my account.
And I even translated rallying together to unite to give it a little communist manifesto feeling.
And I generally think that it was an honest translation.
I mean, I wasn't trying to manufacture an opportunity to smuggle concepts.
They are in essence of the same meaning, and it represents a successful integration of our diplomatic thinking into international discourse through the UN platform.
And I think really the motivation behind this was that I believe addressing global challenges requires more than just institutional corporations and is a fundamental shift in how we think about our interconnectedness.
And our concept of a community of a shared future resonates with UN's foundational principles.
We're offering a distinct perspective on collective responsibilities and mutual prosperities.
So call me biased, but I think our concept is a little bit better.
I think I can sit in the same camp.
Also, I wonder how does academic research because you do have a strong background in that, and how does that play into what you do?
I got to say they are a little bit different.
And the work that you're undergoing during academic journey was of a different nature than when you were working in international organizations.
But like I said earlier, my topic was on international organizations and global governance.
So I was able to apply some of my academic researches to the reports I've been writing or the sometimes a few work that I have to do.
But I think mostly the day to day work looks a little different from the academic life.
Yeah.
Which do you prefer a bit more, if you had to pick and choose?
Between academic and international organizations?
I choose to do academic researches on international organizations.
Is that a choice?
Perfect.
Yeah.
What you just said there, especially with that phrase, you helped to introduce to the UN in a formal manner.
It captures a distinctly Chinese approach to global challenges, emphasizing interconnectedness and mutual benefit and shared future and consensus, and shows how ideas travel from national philosophy into international policy.
And that is really promising to see.
In your field of work.
What do you see as China's most important contributions, or shall I say achievements, within the UN framework so far?
How do you envision China's role evolving in the years ahead?
I think China's contribution to the UN framework has been substantial to say the least.
Beyond the significant financial support For peacekeeping operations, China has demonstrated leadership in South-South cooperation initiatives and has worked to align major development programs like the Belt and Road Initiative with the Sustainable Development Goals.
And China has also brought valuable perspectives on development models that emphasize poverty reductions, infrastructure development and technology transfers.
But I think our single most significant contribution has been to pushing global governments away from the hegemonic dominance and towards true multilateral cooperation, which is really what these institutions were designed to be in the first place right.
So previously, when certain countries dominate the stage of global governance, the voices of many countries in development were often suppressed and marginalized.
However, our success stories, combined with our commitment to maintain our own development paths without being co-opted by hegemonic discourse, has not only enhanced our voices on the world stage, but it has also given hopes to countless other countries that are still in their developmental phases.
And space cooperations and green technology transfers.
These are all fields where we're doing really impressive jobs and it's recognized by all member states in the United Nations.
And as our economic and technological capacities continue to grow, our contribution to multilateral institutions will likely become even more significant in shaping global responses to the 21st century challenges.
Yes, young voices are increasingly central in global conversations, especially on sustainable development.
Coordinating young people for the Sustainable Development Goals, or SDGs, you helped secure over 300 speaking opportunities across the UN system.
Why is it important to give young leaders a platform and what are some of the highlighted ideas they bring to the table?
I think young people are absolutely crucial in global governance because we are the future of where the global governance will be.
So the decisions made today are going to affect us most than the so-called older people or more senior people who are actually sitting at the decision-making table.
So one of the projects that I worked on the young leaders for the SDG programs that was driven by this strategic recognition that sustainable development requires intergenerational perspectives and long-term thinking that the young leaders can uniquely provide.
The young people can bring several critical elements to global governance discussions that are often missing from the traditional diplomatic forums.
For instance, they offer innovative approaches to problem solving, a first-hand experience with emerging technologies and, most importantly, they have a direct stake in the long-term outcomes.
And many of the ideas they brought forward focused on leveraging digital platforms for development and into implementing circular economic principles and creating more inclusive governance mechanisms.
And one thing that really stood out to me was how these young leaders, as I worked with them, how they approached problems very differently from the traditional decision makers that we're seeing now.
Because, while experienced diplomats might focus on what is politically feasible given the current constraints, young leaders We often asked more fundamental questions about whether those constraints actually make sense for addressing future challenges.
So the young leaders for the SDGs, for example.
That platform also served to democratize participation in global governance, to ensure that the voices from diverse geographic and economic and cultural backgrounds could contribute to policy discussions.
And this inclusivity is essential in developing solutions that reflect the full spectrum of global experience and needs.
And if I go a little bit academic on this, I think that inclusivity is essential to United Nations, because United Nations isn't really founded on power, right?
It's founded on a moral stance that we should stand together and every one of us should have a say in our future.
And obviously young people is part of them.
And the decisions that we make today are going to affect our future.
So to include Young people in the discussion is, I think, very crucial to the legitimacy of United Nations.
Young people because they don't see the world with the institutional blinders and I think in a way that can help them see some things differently.
Could you also provide a concrete example of how young people truly make a difference in this UN framework?
Of course.
So I'll take an example of one of the young leaders that I worked with.
Her name is Risha Gupta.
She's from India.
And she had a really passion in education.
And she really in her own community.
She tried to implement the mental health course to her school at first and then to her larger community.
And it was really something that was ignored by the Ministry of Education.
And she really noticed that mental well-being is crucial to how people, especially young students, can learn in their classes.
And then she then went on to Harvard Graduate School of Education to really study how these affect students' lives.
And she brought the learning back to India and tried to build a better classroom for her students not her peers, but maybe her younger peers.
And that was recognized by her municipal.
And then they really gave her the chance to propose her ideas to the Ministry of Education in India.
And she gets to meet with all of the minister's and she gets to sit on the same table with ministers not only from India but also from other countries to discuss how mental well-being is crucial to students.
You know they accepted her proposal.
And now in, I think, a huge I'm not really good with India's politics, but I think in a huge province where the entire province is adapting her idea of implementing mental well-being courses into their original course structure.
So I think that's one of the I think the one of the most impressive examples I can give.
That's a very hopeful example.
If we look at the bigger picture, often giving young leaders opportunities, a platform is important, but the real challenge is ensuring these platforms translate into actual influence on policy and resource allocation.
Too often youth participation at international events Risk becoming symbolic photo shoots, speeches and panels without follow through.
And it makes me wonder, you know, you've got the great exceptions, but a lot of the times.
If youth participation is still often too symbolic, what's the missing link?
Is it access to decision-making rooms?
Is it the willingness of institutions to adjust priorities?
Or is there something deeper in the way global governance operates?
Thank you so much for this question and thank you for being critical on this issue, because this is exactly what we're working on at the UN use office, because we all recognize that many times, young people's participation becomes tokenistic and you know, just like what you said, it's like a photo shooting.
You know it's like standing on the stage and making the the same speech over and over again without making any substantial changes, And I think part of the problem was definitely access to resources.
So, for instance, again I'm going to take the Young Leaders for SDG programs, as I worked with that a lot.
So for our program, we would sponsor the 17 young people to travel from all over the world to the United Nations headquarters in order to make their presence and make sure their voices are heard.
But this involves booking flights and booking hotel rooms at the time where New York is at this business.
And this is like a lot of not only financial constraints but also bureaucratic constraints, like I mentioned earlier, because for the UN to be able to pay a significant amount of money to a young person, that involves a lot of documents checking and sometimes forms filling and works like that.
And it goes through many departments within the United Nations, and not All departments will respond as quickly as you wish, because they also have their own plate of work.
And so it really and I can say this honestly that one time is I think it was the UN General Assembly at 2024.
We actually one of the young person was not unable to receive their daily allowance on time in order to book their hotel room.
And that was like quite chaotic for us, because we have to then find, like within our own resources, like our personal connections, to make sure that the young person can be accommodated in New York.
And it's really hard to do.
And that, I think, imposes a lot of mental stress and obviously physical difficulties for the young people who are coming to New York.
And I think that's definitely one of the most important challenges that we have to address.
And beyond just our resources, we also need more capacity building in order for them to actually contribute when they are sitting at the decision making table.
So right now, the United Nations really believes that young people can make a difference and they're giving young people these opportunities to to sit with the decision makers at the same table.
But what they can actually bring, like what they can in terms of implementing policies, that really depends on the young personal capacities and their academic learning and their experience with politics, which are, you know, for very good reasons, lacking compared to the more seasoned diplomats.
So I think we also need to give young people more capacity building opportunities for them to meaningfully contribute to the conversations once they're seated at the decision-making table.
Yeah, engaging the young people here isn't just about dialogue.
It's about inspiring careers and future leadership.
From your experience, what aspects of the UN generate the most interest among young people?
And among your students and the youth you've worked with.
Do you see interest in pursuing academic research in this field?
I think, in my experience with students and young professionals, the aspects of human work that generate the most interest are typically those with direct relevance to their lived experience and future prospects.
So, for instance, climate actions will consistently rank at the top, followed by digital rights and economic opportunities and social justice issues.
And what I find encouraging is the substantial interest in pursuing academic research related to international organizations, particularly in areas that combine traditional international relations with emerging fields like global health governance, like environmental politics and digital diplomacy.
And many young people are drawn to the interdisciplinary approaches that connect international relations with economics and technologies and so on.
And the key challenge I see here is demonstrating how academic research in these fields can lead to meaningful career opportunities.
And young people need to see clear pathways from their studies to roles in international organizations and governmental services.
And that sometimes is hard, right?
I got to say I was extremely lucky to be able to get that opportunity to work at the United Nations, but not everyone can get that chance.
So, and then I also noticed that young people today are more open minded than previous generations partly, I think, due to the digital connectivity.
But they also expect international institutions to be more responsive and innovative than they have traditionally been.
So I think that also kind of imposes another layer of challenges for these institutions to really reform.
Last but not least, what advice would you give young people who want to learn more about, or even directly participate in, global governance and international institutions?
Thank you.
I think we all need to understand that the rules governing global cooperation were written largely by people who could not have anticipated things like artificial intelligence and global pandemics and climate tipping points.
And the question is not whether these rules will change and they must change.
So the question is whether our generation will be passive observer of that change or active architect of the new framework.
So the field of global governance really needs young people who understand that the current system is not fixed or permanent and needs leaders who can envision fundamentally different approaches to international corporations and who have critical and technical expertise and collaborative skills to make those visions a reality in the future.
Really belongs to those who understand that our greatest challenges require our most ambitious collective responses.
And I think most importantly I really want to say this to all young people from the Global South is that don't be blackmailed by the mainstream discourse.
We Asians, Africans, Latin Americans, together we account for 80% of the population.
And we are not the ethnic minorities.
We are the global majority.
And if it's democracy that the world champions for, then every single one of us deserve a say in the decisions that affects our lives and futures.
And you have the power to fundamentally shape how the world works.
But power is not given, power is taken.
So to take power, we need to really come together, just like the global majority that we are.
And when we come together through these multilateral institutions like the UN, we possess the collective power to create new frameworks for global cooperation.
And always remember, alone we break the rules, but together we make the rules.
Engagement in global governance requires passion, as you've seen in Dong Xiaoman today.
It requires curiosity, patience and resilience.
The pathways are open and it's about taking the first step. and staying committed.
And that's a wrap.
Dr Dong Xiaoman reminds us that the UN's future rests on nurturing a new generation, ready to lead and innovate.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us today.
Thank you for having me again.
Thank you.
That was Roundtable's He Yang speaking with Dong Xiaoman, who has previously served at the United Nations Office for Project Services and the United Nations Youth Office.
Their conversation is really inspiring.
I think at the last she said.
Well, Dr Dong said that individually we might break the rules, but together we make the rules.
Yeah, it makes sense too.
And by the way, I enjoyed all of the chats that we heard this week. for the UN series.
But it makes sense when we think about it.
If you have an organization, a world organization like the United Nations, making decisions and policies that are meant to help different countries, different people in different scenarios around the world, then it makes sense that you would have representatives um from those different countries but also from those different age groups yes so ignoring the voice of the youth doesn't make sense it's just not a smart thing to do And yes, yet, like she said, it is also always important to strike a balance between efficiency and democracy, between finding the best solution and finding the Good enough solution, timely.
So it's always hard.
And if you think about how grand the United Nations is, definitely when the problems are major, the solutions.
It takes a bit more time to come to the solution.
Sure, but my point was just having more voices in the room representative of the people, of the population of the world.
It's just something that makes sense to me.
Can I just quickly comment on the figure that Dr Dong demonstrates, because when I first reached out to her to contact her for this interview, neither He Yang nor I could just foresee what kind of an outcome we can get out of this.
But as you guys can probably hear from He Yang's voice, we both got very much refreshed and inspired after hearing from her.
And I believe in the warm-up session she told us that she was going to be a police officer if it weren't for the fact that she become an academic researcher eventually.
So I totally see that in her.
I see the leadership in her and all the voices, the younger voices she represents here in today's China.
Yes, a good conversation.
Hope you enjoyed it as much as we do.
