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Coming up, the third China International Supply Chain Expo has kicked off here in Beijing with American exhibitors topping foreign participants.
China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi proposes five suggestions for the development of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
Responding to Japanese new defense report or document, China warns against the resurgence of Japanese militarism.
U .S. President Donald Trump is launching a probe into Brazil's trade practices.
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day. The third China International Supply Chain Expo has opened in Beijing.
Participants have launched the Beijing Initiative calling for safeguarding the security and stability of global industrial and supply chains.
It is also calling on the global business community to uphold the multilateral trading system.
Over 650 companies and institutions from across the the world are participating in the Expo, including a 15 % increase in the number of U .S. exhibitors compared to last year's event.
So for more, joining us now on the line is Professor Liu Baocheng, Director of the Center for International Business Ethics with the University of International Business and Economics.
Thank you very much for joining us today, Professor Liu Baocheng.
Addressing the expo's opening session, Chinese Vice Premier He Lifeng called for upholding an open, cooperative international environment and formally opposing the politicization, ideologization and over -securitization of economic or trade issues.
So, first of all, why are politicization, ideologization and over -securitization a major threat posed to the stability of our global supply chains.
Well, the fundamental principle of globalization is to build a connection through which businesses exchange goods and services to benefit all the end consumers with efficiency, with trust, and based on comparative advantage.
So definitely politicization, ideologization, or over securitization is there to go against such a fundamental principle.
And the fact that WTO as a multilateral trading organization has been promoting the free exchange change of goods and services across border has been doing a great benefit to the humanity.
But right now we do see that there are anti -globalization current where political agenda are there to use the national security rhetorics rather than market logic to offset the basic principle and many other countries are using arbitrary restrictions, creating uncertainties in the investment and the trade flow.
So this does not only increase the operational cost and delay, in the end, also the customers will pay all the dues, but it also endangers the mutual trust among all stakeholders.
And it is also there to fragment the interconnected global trade network into rivalry blocks.
So, therefore, we have to be aware of the fact that we are living in an ever -interdependent world economy.
such sort of fragmentation created by the excessive polarization is there to reduce efficiency, disrupt supply chain, and also make it harder for businesses, particularly for small and medium -sized companies to navigate the complex regime.
regime. So over time, this will be able to bring all the damages to all the initiating countries and other participating countries, which are really losing the opportunity to collaborate.
So when we talk about safeguarding the security and the stability of global industrial chain or supply chains, how much does the willingness and determination or the real action from the business community matter?
Well, business communities are far more agile to the political situation, so they find every way to safeguard the security and stability of the global supply chain because they have have their own much market logic where the comparative Vantage Mutual exchange based on the contract is their mission so they are the primary Actors that design invest in and operate the supply network across the world so their willingness to continue collaborating on international basis, despite of the rising geopolitical tensions, is really a welcome and also stabilizing force.
So determined business leadership can preserve commercial ties, maintain cross -border flow of goods and technologies, sustain innovation, and maintain the market integration, even under some of the political pressures.
Moreover, I think the the businesses can also bring many of those pragmatic solutions.
So because they are able to not only get around, but also lobby to government to adjust to some of the shocks and reroute their logistics during some of the difficult time.
And they are also able to find alternative supplies during sanctions and and co -develop some of the resilient and digital infrastructure.
So their investment choice, their procurement strategy, and long -term partnership will be able, in the end, to shape the future of global supply chain.
Now, many U .S. tech giants, including Nvidia, Hollywood, Qualcomm, and Micron are participating in this year's expo.
So what do you make of this 15 % increase in terms of the number of American exhibitors in this year's event?
So I think, as we said, the businesses have their own market rules to play by.
And so despite of the political rivalry between China and the United States, the U .S. companies and Chinese companies only, They are able to fund business opportunities with each other.
And after all, China and the U .S. are on the top business partnership.
So despite some of the political headwinds, it is there to reflect a dual -track reality.
While geopolitical narratives, they emphasize on derisking or even decoupling, the business community continue to seek growth, stability, and technological collaboration across the border.
So this uptick in the number of participation by U .S. companies suggests that U .S. firms understand the importance of staying engaged in a multilateral platform, particularly with a rising business partner like China.
so they are not only there to retain the market access but also are there to shape the future standard the partnership and supply chain with china so china is not only just a production base but also a hub of innovation logistics and also rising market demand which they can hardly afford forfeited.
Now, of course, I mean, this ongoing expo in Beijing represents a key platform or an opportunity for China to further promote globalization or trade liberalization on the global stage.
Now, some people see the Belt and Road initiative initiated by China, as well as China's support for free trade, as a Chinese attempt to build an international supply chain system with China at its center.
What is your take on this, Professor Liu?
Well, over the past almost half a century, China has been truly a beneficiary of globalization, but in the meantime China has been also a significant contributor to the economic growth and also trade liberalization.
The Belt and Road Initiative actually is part and parcel of the globalization process in which China plays a central role.
They bring up more initiatives, particularly to engage with the global south, with African countries, Latin American countries.
But China has never ruled out the participation of any other country along this type of initiative.
So the unique part of the Belt and Road Initiative is connectivity in which China exercises its own comparative advantage in the supply of capital, in the supply of technological know -how to build infrastructures because that's the basis for any other developing country to engage in the urbanization process.
process so you know that's the tangible contribution China has uh has been doing so rather than aiming at to dominate uh the world trade pattern or uh not to mention the uh political regime China has continually emphasized the inclusiveness of the uh Belt and road initiative and is there to seek complementarities rather than confrontation with the regional framework like ASEAN Connectivity Master Plan, or we also engage on an equal basis through mutual consultation with the African Continental Free Trade Area.
So the real challenge is not really China's ambition, but rather the misinterpretation of China's vision.
So to ensure that such an initiative continued to improve based on the transparency, the rule -based and open to multilateral cooperation, I believe China will be able to earn better understanding with time, and more important, with real deliverables.
With real deliverables.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Professor Liu Baocheng, Director of the Center for International Business Ethics with the University of International Business and Economics.
Coming up, China's foreign minister proposes five suggestions on the Shanghai Cooperation Organization's development.
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We'll be back. Global sovereign wealth funds are warming to China again as the country posts another quarter of better -than -expected growth.
What's fueling the optimism?
Which sectors are showing resilience amid global uncertainty?
While second quarter growth outpaced annual targets, it slowed from the first quarter.
Is this a sign of fading stimulus, or just a natural rebalancing?
In looking ahead, does China have what it takes to sustain momentum through the rest of the year?
Tune in as we unpack the data, the trends, and the outlook on this week's Chat Lounge, wherever you listen to podcasts and on CGTN Radio.
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I'm Ding Hen in Beijing.
China has announced that the country is going to host the Shanghai Cooperation Organization Summit from August 31st to September 1st. The announcement came after foreign ministers of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization member countries met in the northern Chinese city of Tianjin.
Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi has proposed five suggestions on the organization's development, including carrying forward the Shanghai spirit, consolidating security, pursuing mutual benefits, pursuing friendship, and safeguarding international fairness and justice.
So for more, joining us now on the line is Zoom Ahmed Khan, research fellow with the Center for China and Globalization.
Hello, Zung. Thank you very much for joining us.
Thank you for having me, Duncan.
So first of all, how can member countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization really stay true to this organization's original aspiration?
What is your understanding of the Shanghai spirit?
You know, the Shanghai spirit is really the essence of what the SCO stands for, right?
And the way I understand it, I mean, it's this mentality that is more about unity than uniformity.
It is a mindset that's going to help countries understand that in the end, the challenges we share, the security threats we share are collective.
And we need to act by cooperating with one another instead of confronting each other to really be able to tackle the challenges.
As we always say, you know, in the SEO mandate, they're the three evil forces.
We need to tackle these by cooperating with each other.
So the Shanghai spirit was really, you know, the term was coined after the Shanghai Five, the initial countries that were a part of, you know, this collective effort to address the outstanding issues that they have with each other.
And as a result, they realize that once those issues have been addressed, we can cooperate with each other.
We can promote connectivity.
We need to think of, you know, a broader agenda on a regional level, which is going to help all of us achieve our goals and going to help all of us, you know, be protected from the threats that we face.
So for me, you know, the Shanghai spirit is really that mindset, that mentality that we need to not confront one another, but in a very honest way address the challenges we have. It is also, I mean, millennia old, this region has been connected.
We talk about the ancient Silk Road.
You look at the language we use in the region.
There has been so much, you know, connectivity for millennia, for centuries, that now the Shanghai spirit really represents that part of history that we were all able to benefit from and move forward. So for me, the Shanghai spirit is really the essence of good neighborliness, of a positive mindset, of this open attitude towards each other to help each other.
I take your point definitely.
Then in terms of specifically consolidating security.
Of course, I mean, the three evil forces of terrorism, extremism and separatism are still there.
But in the meantime, we have also seen occurrences or events like, for example, Iran, a full member country of the SCO under military attack by certain other countries.
So how how would you expect the Shanghai Cooperation Organization to act in terms of consolidating security?
this is such this is also such a packed question you know um one of the things that we were able to through uh this uh the magazine we did the shankar review i mean one of the interviews really revealed that the shanghai spirit needs to be collectively created you know this is number one we can't just assume that by becoming members of the seo we will automatically we need to work on it it is something that we need to move towards and as far as you know how can the seo act i think the SEO is already playing an incredible role to improve, you know, connectivity and building trust in a region where we
need it, really. My personal view is, you know, that I think the SEO can in the coming years also play a role of being an organization that can perhaps play a mediating role in such scenarios.
I'll also mention, you know, obviously, we recently had this standoff between two member countries, my own, Pakistan and India, right?
So just because we are members of the Shanghai spirit doesn't mean that automatically those issues will not exist. And just because Iran is a member of the SCO doesn't mean that it will automatically be protected from such situations.
We are living in a very volatile world where the global north is also reacting to the emergence of a global south that demands, rightfully so, its representation and its rightful place, right?
So it is a volatile world.
So I think the SEO can, moving forward, also play an active role, an increasingly active role on the side while we work on cooperation and economic agendas and trust building.
Let's also think maybe there is a possibility that the Shanghai Cooperation Organization can play a role as the mediator in such scenarios.
So since you have already mentioned the recent standoff between India and Pakistan.
I mean, between certain individual members of the SCO, many thorny bilateral issues remain, including, say, the border issue between China and India and some Central Asian countries.
They also have their own territorial disputes.
So under the framework of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, are you witnessing any momentum or dynamics or mechanisms that can really prevent those arguments or disputes between certain individual members from hindering a wider scale cooperation?
collaboration. Firstly, the first point I'll mention here is that, you know, we can't be as wishful, you know, we have these bilateral issues that have escalated in recent years between member countries.
And I think one of the first things that came from, you know, critics of the Shanghai spirit, they said that the SEO doesn't work.
If it worked, this would never have happened.
But we are really going through a process of developing that mindset as a region.
But we, despite existing bilateral issues, have something bigger to work towards.
The fact that, you know, two countries like Pakistan and India are able to sign so many agreements and agree on so many issues.
This is creating that space, which is, again, the result of the Shanghai spirit that we can have commonalities.
And let's think of the commonalities as well.
That said, secondly, I think the SCO, while creating that space, obviously we need time as a region.
There are still countries that have major issues bilaterally and are not working well to address them on a bilateral front.
There's resistance by some countries on that.
I believe that currently, you know, actually the SCO is only the very functional platform that India and Pakistan share on a regional level.
So this is definitely progress in the right direction, but we will need time.
And as I said, my own view is that I think the SEO can play that role, not by bringing those bilateral issues in a multilateral setting.
We don't want that because that can hinder the progress that the organization is achieving and the momentum we are achieving on so many issues, development issues, security, trust building.
But perhaps there can be discussion for a space that the SCO can create those avenues for countries to discuss their bilateral issues so that they can eventually achieve that, you know, status as members, as neighbors, which the Shanghai Five had achieved in the past. Right.
So it will need proactive effort on the sidelines, is my view.
And the SEO being a platform that all member countries and all, you know, 26 countries that are either dialogue partners or observers or members, they value this platform.
So I think the SCO has that, you know, ability to to encourage countries, member countries in particular, to prioritize addressing the issues they have and to not allow those those issues of mistrust come in the way of practical cooperation.
creation. When it comes to pursuing mutual benefits or win -win results, especially on development, actually China has a mentality that no SEO member countries should be left behind, let's say, on things like trade, investment, interconnectivity, infrastructure connectivity, activity, tech innovation, and green development.
So what can be done to turn this nice vision into reality?
It is turning into reality as we speak, to be honest. You know, I have been in touch with several also diplomats, you know, from member countries and they say China's chairmanship this year, I mean, has been so active in, you know, inviting member countries, ministers, etc. to to discuss practical cooperation.
Just now, for example, Pakistan had decided to send an overall thousand, but so far, 350 students to understand agri -tech in Yangling, and those students are graduating right now.
There are countless such examples where member countries are benefiting from the increased avenues of cooperation.
All of these countries, they value China's development as well.
China so advanced in so many ways that these countries can learn from.
We all have those common challenges where we want a better future for our people.
And I think as we speak, you know, let's compare ourselves from five years ago.
The SCO as a platform, as an organization has created countless spaces for member countries to be able to cooperate and to improve as a collective.
So I think we are on the right track.
The fact that we see as an organization, those trust issues and those security challenges that we face, they are connected with economic challenges, right?
Right. So we need to think of how to what extent the SEO is currently playing a role in holistic cooperation.
We know that agriculture, health, youth, all of these.
I mean, there's so many common issues, common perspectives that we have as a region.
So we are constantly making progress.
And what I see is that the SEO is really serving as an organization that can improve the ability of the quality of cooperation.
I take a point. Definitely, we're seeing concrete action from the Shanghai Cooperation Organization in terms of improving our existing global governance.
But thank you very much for joining us, Zoom America.
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On the World Today program, you can find in -depth and impartial insight, as well as critical commentary on key trends in the Chinese economy, financial technology, business and blockchain.
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The International Congress of Basic Science is ongoing in Beijing during over 1 ,000 scholars from China and abroad.
The academic event has also presented the Basic Science Lifetime Achievement Award. This year's honor went to six international giants including Nobel Bell Laureate, Professor David Jonathan Gross.
He is a preeminent figure in theoretical physics, whose contributions have profoundly shaped our understanding of the fundamental forces of nature.
So my colleague Tianwei earlier sat down with Professor Gross to learn more about basic sciences and scientific advances.
Your research actually helped us better to understand because because quantum and, you know, gravitational waves, all these are trying to help the humankind to understand the universe much better.
Well, you know, my generation was lucky enough to live in a time where we developed a really very good theory of matter and forces.
And that actually made it possible for us to understand the universe based on what we observe.
but take it back in time to when it was very small.
The observable universe, very small, very hot, very dense.
So we can't do that directly.
But using the theory, the understanding of what happens to the forces of nature when we go to a very hot and dense situation, astrophysicists, cosmologists, and particle physicists have been able to understand the complete history of the universe from the very earliest possible times until today.
One of my friends said that the discovery for which I got the Nobel Prize led to the understanding of the strong nuclear force changed the early universe from a hadron or or nuclear hell, theoretically, to a quark -gluon heaven.
So it enabled us to really calculate and trace the universe back to the very beginning.
Then everything breaks down and we don't know what's going on.
But without the basic understanding of particle physics, what we're made out of and how it works, we really would not have been able, as we have succeeded more or less, we think, to understand the complete history of the universe from the beginning, which we don't understand, till today and beyond.
Did you realize that actually it is an unprecedented way that you have paved for actually many of us these days to understand the universe much better?
Well, not that far.
But it was clear with the discovery that we made that we could understand the strong nuclear force, which before that was a complete mystery.
And suddenly everything fell into place.
And yes, it was a very exciting feeling.
There were many problems, but somehow it all fit together.
Many of my colleagues, not all of them, actually a small number, understood that as well.
I called them the smart people.
But many people said oh yes but how can you have a theory of quarks and never seen a quark and never will?
Doesn't make sense.
It took many years to be recognized, say, by prize committees, or to be sure that they're right.
Because in science in general and certainly in physics, the only judge of ideas and theories is nature.
When your research, as terrific and significant as it was, was not recognized, what was it like for you?
No, it was recognized by the smart people.
Yes, by the smart people.
And by a growing number of people.
So, one of the awardees this year was Sam Ting.
One year after QCD, the theory of the strong interaction, nuclear force, he and a group in Stanford discovered a particle which had very unusual properties, but was kind of predicted by the Standard Model, although at that time, theorists weren't taken very seriously because they'd been so unsuccessful for so many years.
But that discovery just fit beautifully within our understanding of the nuclear force.
And that so -called November Revolution convinced many people that this was the right theory.
But it took really at least 20 years, if not not 30 years, to be convinced.
You have to ask nature, am I right?
How do you do that?
You make predictions of new phenomena or new measurements that nobody's ever done.
And usually nature says, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Sometimes it says, not wrong.
It never says, right.
And if it does so, over and over again for many years, That becomes accepted knowledge and appears in high school textbooks.
But it's a long process.
It is. So the experimentalists who discovered the J -psi particle won a Nobel Prize two years after the discovery.
They discovered it's there, two experiments, they agree.
That's in the case of the Higgs particle, an essential part of the standard theory that we have. It took 50 years between when the theorist proposed this essential element of the theory to when it was finally discovered 10 years ago.
So what does that mean that time difference?
That you discovered something that you are confident about and your smart people friends certainly were very excited about?
to the time when people realize even the Nobel Prize Committee realized this is treasure?
It's a continuous transition for theoretical advances because as I said, there's no way of proving a theory is correct.
correct, and by the way, of course, all scientists, especially physicists, realize that no theory is going to be correct forever.
Einstein knew very well that his theory of gravity is provisional and will change, and he spent years, unsuccessfully, trying to change it, his own theory.
So we We all, the history of physics teaches us that all of our concepts even, our theories are provisional.
All of science is provisional.
It's one of the problems with informing the public as well as governments and politicians about the findings of science because they want certainty.
They want to be told this is the way it is And all we can do is say, we have a good theory, a good model, and based on the data we have and the understanding, it looks very much like this with some probability.
But there's some uncertainty.
Our data isn't perfect, our understanding isn't perfect, it could change.
People get very upset when scientists come back later and say, well, our original understanding of COVID was slightly wrong.
And we made mistakes in telling you how to behave. And then science loses.
Then people begin not to believe anything that scientists say.
This is very silly.
We actually need to educate the public as to what science really is and what knowledge really is.
There's always uncertainty.
Professor David Jonathan Gross, a Nobel laureate and preeminent figure in the area of theoretical physics, talking with my colleague Tian Wei.
Coming up, in response to Japan's latest defense document, China has warned against the resurgence of Japanese militarism.
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China is slamming Japan's new defense white paper over allegations of the so -called China threat.
China's defense ministry has accused Japan of fabricating false narratives to justify military expansion and grossly interfering in China's internal affairs.
The Ministry of China is also urging the Japanese side to learn from history, fulfill its promises on the Taiwan question, and promote the healthy development of the bilateral ties.
So joining us now on the line is Dr. Liu Kuangyu from the Institute of Taiwan Studies, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Hello, this is Kuangyu.
So Japan's annual defense report we're talking about here has actually described China as Tokyo's quote, greatest strategic challenge, unquote.
Does this, Mark, make sense?
Is it a wise choice for Japan to antagonize China in the wording of this particular defense report?
Of course, I think no for two of these respective questions.
At first, I understand why Japan may say so or they may think so, because on the Japan side, they may think, well, China is too large, is too strong, is too massive, and is growing.
And China is too close to Japan.
We are so close to each other.
We are neighbors that we cannot move each other away.
So that means they are unwise because if you have neighbors, you have to deal with it.
So you have to find a way to cooperate and to coexist with each other, rather than antagonize or challenging or coercing or trying to be very aggressive against each other.
So that is not a way the neighbors deal with each other.
Neighbors coexist with each other.
And also, I think that Japan must respect the public opinion of the two countries.
We know that in Japanese society, there's already much of sort of biases, policies, misperceptions among the Japanese social media, public opinion because of the propaganda from the politicians, from their government.
So, there's already a lot of misunderstanding from the Japanese side towards the Chinese mainland.
And also, Japan has to respect the public opinion of the 1 .4 mass Chinese population, which will be a very strong collective force that Japan cannot neglect.
We want justice, we want peace and development, and we want non -inferiors in our internal politics, internal affairs.
So if Japan cannot find its own, its right way, right position in dealing with China, in recognizing China's peaceful rights, so it will be very dangerous for Japan to understand the current situation in Northeast Asia and in the whole so -called Indo -Pacific region.
Mm hmm. Just like towards European NATO member countries, U .S. President Donald Trump has also been demanding that Japan take on more of the burden for defense, calling this alliance between the U .S. and Japan as one sided, etc. et cetera.
But in the meantime, we also seem to see Washington pledging a commitment to Japan.
If we take a look at a March visit made to Japan, made to Tokyo by U .S. Secretary of Defense Peter Hacksas.
So in your opinion, is there genuine U .S. commitment to Japan?
And is there a sign that that Tokyo's strategic thinking is somehow hijacked by Washington's China policy.
Why or why not? For the first question, I think, of course, we know there is a very special relationship, political relationship between U .S. and Japan.
They have a so -called security agreement that is affecting during the past few decades.
But what we can see now is that first the US generally speaking, the US has been trying to evade or trying to dodge their responsibility towards or commitments towards their allies and partners, whether it's NATO, whether it's in North America or in Northeast Asia, like with Japan or with South Korea.
So we find a similar thing that the U .S. trying to push their allies and partners in front of geopolitical conflicts and those dilemmas that U .S. are trying to throw back and trying to push more risks and burdens for their allies, including Japan.
So, we cannot predict what the US will choose in the so -called war situation with Japan but what we can see that the US trying to, OK, Japan you go first, you go up in the front.
So, on the other hand, what we can see on the Japanese government level and, of course, the right party, on the right wing, the conservative party.
So on the Japanese side, there is a very complex thing because we can see first there is sort of because the Japan and U .S., they have shared strategic values, perceptions and security interests, especially against China's rise.
They have this sort of same concern and coordinate actions.
And in the long run, we can see that the U .S. has been up in the front and Japan is following, especially when dealing relations with China and towards the Taiwan Strait.
And on the other side, we can see in the past years, Japan has been acting more and more actively.
They're trying to position themselves sort of a leader of the Indo -Pacific security network.
So we can see that they're trying to help or help the U .S. to create sort of a collective security networks in East Asia, in the Indo -Pacific region.
And they're trying to make more stirs, turbulences, troubles in this East Sea, in the South China Sea, in Taiwan Straits.
They're trying to, in my opinion, trying to stay the U .S. in this region because U .S. is withdrawing.
The U .S. is trying to withdraw to the second or the third island, China.
But Japan said, OK, I can take more responsibility.
I can take more burden.
And the US, you must stay in this side.
You must support us against China and we can involve in the Taiwan Straits together.
So I think that's a very complex strategy that US side and Japan and Japanese side, they are using, they're deploying.
Yeah. So the final question and briefly, what is a responsible Japanese government supposed to do at a time when the cross -strait tensions are reaching a very high level due to Taiwan Wang Lita, you know, his continuous provocative actions to advance his independence agenda.
I think first is that the Japanese ship must truly recognize, reflect and rethink their responsibility of a historical responsibility and contemporary responsibility in this region.
They must understand that they are the factor, they are the reason that of the formation of contemporary Taiwan question of the situation in the Taiwan Strait today.
So they are responsible for it.
They must not make this situation go worse, and they should contribute to make it better.
And the second part is that on a military level, I think it's very intensive, very necessary for the Japanese to reduce their attempt to try to militarize the Taiwan Strait, militarize the East China Sea.
So to reduce the tensions, the military tensions with China and their military interference into the Taiwan question.
And third, I think Japan must respect their commitments, their one China principle commitment towards China and stop sending wrong signals towards the Taiwan independence regime on the island.
Your point is well taken.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Dr. Liu Kuang -yu joining us from Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
Coming up, President Donald Trump of the United States is launching probe into Brazil's trade practices.
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I'm Ding Hen in Beijing.
The United States has launched a probe into what the Trump administration calls Brazil's unfair trading practices.
Washington says the investigation will include Brazilian government policies related to digital trade, tariffs, and anti -corruption interference.
President Donald Trump first made threats on this particular investigation in a letter to his Brazilian counterpart Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva last week.
In the same letter, Trump announced a 50 % tariff on Brazil starting on August 1st. Lula said in response that Brazil wouldn't match any increase in terms of the tariffs.
Last year, trade between the United States and Brazil was worth 90 billion US dollars.
So joining us now on the line is Pedro Stinhagen, PhD candidate in international politics with Fudan University and director of development with Observa China.
Thank you very much for joining us.
It is my pleasure to be here.
Always a pleasure to join you in World Today.
So actually, we understand the United States had a 7 .4 billion US dollar trade surplus was the Brazilian side in 2024, meaning Brazil is actually buying more from America than the other way around.
So do you think there are actual unfair trading practices on the part of the Brazilian side?
Thank you for the question.
And I think it's very important that I respond to you very directly with a big no. And you're right, the United States ran a trade surplus of approximately US $7 billion with Brazil last year.
And more importantly, I should note that this is extremely relevant to be pointed out the US has not had a trade deficit with Brazil for 18 years.
So it's a false information that this is working the opposite way around with Brazil running trade surpluses with the US, as President Trump has alleged.
Now, when we look at the matter of unfair trade practices in specific, again, there is no evidence and nothing was effectively presented as proof in this sense by the US side, that Brazil has been directly or even indirectly promoting unfair trade practices.
In fact, the US is the one that's, for example, since 2019, has paralyzed the WTO dispute settlement system by refusing to appoint members to its appellate body.
It's also the U .S. that this year is abandoning a rules -based approach in favor of a protectionist model based on the establishment of unilateral tariffs.
So even if we look at the international trade now, even widely agreed principles such as the most favored nation principle of non -discrimination is being thrown out of the window through the introduction of country -based rather than product -based tariffs.
So it's no wonder, for instance, that a recent opinion poll commissioned by The Economist found that most South American nations now view China as a more reliable trade partner than the U .S. This would, of course, also make sense if you look directly at the trade data available.
So I think this also illustrates which country really has been promoting what can be considered unfair trade practices, either bilaterally or multilaterally.
Now, actually, some people say President Donald Trump's Brazil tariffs or the threat of tariffs are pointing more to his enduring bond with former Brazilian leader Jair Bolsonaro than real actual economic concerns.
Does this analysis have a point?
Why or why not? Yes, it definitely has a point, especially because the U .S. trade deficit argument, as I previously mentioned, is a false one.
And in his letter, Trump specifically stated in the very first paragraph, by the way, that the way Brazil has threatened, has treated Bolsonaro is an international disgrace in his own words, and that the Supreme Court trial that Bolsonaro is now facing for attempting a coup d 'etat should not be taking place, again, in his word. So in sequence, in this same letter, Trump also complained about the decisions from the court against American social media platforms. So maybe you all accomplish, you and everyone that's listening to us right now, at least a little bit the crisis involving Elon Musk and X
earlier, and maybe you also know one of Bolsonaro's sons, Eduardo Bolsonaro, has been there in the United States for months now, allegedly lobbying in favor of his father and making his support for Trump's measures against Brazil very clear.
So in the end, in my opinion, it's clearly political.
And the political component is actually front and center here also in the new announcement of the investigation because although the Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974 is designed to address unfair foreign trade practices affecting U .S. commerce, In this case, it is being used as a maneuver that not only undermines economic relations between Brazil and the U .S., affecting societies and business people from both sides, but also marks a troubling shift in the use of trade as a tool of political coercion.
It's absolutely no exaggeration to say that considering the full scope of Trump's remarks and measures, this is even an interference in Brazilian sovereignty, as President Lula has already pointed out.
Now, we understand President Donald Trump on Monday this week threatened to impose a 100 % secondary tariffs on Russia if a deal on ending the war in Ukraine is now reached.
Brazil is actually one of the countries that could be hit by the secondary U .S. sanctions here because of Brazil's existing trade with Russia.
Also, no one needs a reminder about Donald Trump's recent threat of tariffs against those member states of the BRICS, where Brazil is now assuming the rotating presidency.
So how do you feel about those threats from Washington that Brazil is faced with?
with? I feel they're very worrisome because traditionally speaking, if you look at Brazilian foreign policy, Brazil has very good and positive relations with the whole of the international society.
This, of course, includes Russia and also the other BRICS nations.
China, of course, has been Brazil's main trade partner since 2009.
And Russia, for instance, is among the 15 largest largest trading partners of Brazil and also a key aspect of such trade just to exemplify to you for the Brazilian side is the import of fertilizers which are of course fundamental for for Brazilian agribusiness so I saw that the decree of trade reciprocity from the Brazilian side has been published yesterday so this is a possibility that we can see Brazil using this decree of reciprocity to also use tariffs against the U .S. And this would be very troublesome because this would, of course, also impact a lot the Brazilian economy and the American economy.
So I think these threats from Washington also undermine the historical ties that have been existing between Brazil and the United States of America.
So we still have about like one minute or so before we need to wrap up.
So ultimately, how would you expect back the United States and Brazil to resolve their trade disputes, so to speak.
And do you think Mr. Trump is going to change Brazil's perception regarding its longstanding partnership with the United States?
I don't know if it's going to change Brazil's perception because some Brazilians might perceive this as a short -term thing focused on Trump, not necessarily on the United States as a whole but it definitely leaves a mark even for the country as a whole.
So we have to see in the long term how much the perceptions change.
But regarding the trade dispute itself, I think they can be solved through negotiations.
I have been seeing that business people from the United States and also from Brazil civil society organizations the diplomatic body from Brazil, I have been seeing a lot of movements to try to solve the situation because there is the perception, especially for Brazil, that if a trade war launched by the US is effective, it would hurt the Brazilian economy much more.
So there is a lot of effort to try to find a negotiated solution for these trade disputes.
So let's hope and see what the future holds for us and let's hope that we can revert such a catastrophe yeah thank you very much for your candid and sincere perspective Pedro Steenhagen PhD candidate in international politics was Fudan University and director of development was Observa China that's all the time for this edition of World Today I'm Dingheng in Beijing thank you so much for listening bye for now you
