Hi, everybody.
Welcome to Women in Retail Talks, the podcast where C-suite executive women in the retail space share their stories of professional growth leadership development, personal journeys and so much more.
I'm Melissa Campanelli, the co-founder of the Women in Retail Leadership Circle, which is a membership-based community of executive women at leading retailers and brands.
Joining me today is Kristen Dorsey, the Chief Marketing Officer at True Religion Brand Jeans and a friend of Women in Retail.
Kristen was actually on our board back when we first launched, so we're so excited to have her here.
Today we're going to be talking about her career journey, her unique approach to marketing, her thoughts on work-life integration and so much more.
So welcome, Kristen.
Thank you so much, Melissa.
It is a full circle moment for sure.
It is great to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Yes, definitely.
I remember back in the day when we were first launching, you were always such a great supporter.
So we really appreciate it.
Oh, of course.
You guys continue to do great things.
Congratulations.
Thanks.
And same to you.
So you recently joined, as I said, True Religion as CMO.
I thought this was really super interesting.
It's a.
Can you tell me a little bit about that and also some of the initiatives you're working on right now that you're most excited about?
Of course.
So it's a newly created role because I think our CEO, Michael Buckley, who is a phenomenal business leader and visionary, really believes that the company has a tremendous amount of opportunity with regard to growth.
And so, when we think about what that means, the missing piece was how do we use marketing to drive massive brand awareness consideration and then, of course, acquisition and lifetime value of consumers?
So I joined late July of last year and you know, pretty quickly actually, upon my joining the company, We doubled our investment in brand marketing in the second half of last year.
That's versus the first half of last year and versus the second half of the previous year.
So 2022.
You asked, you know, what are the things I'm sort of proud of and most excited about?
Right out of the gate worked with the team last year to create a 360 degree integrated holiday campaign that we called Style as a Gift.
That campaign idea came to life through Consumer Insights.
That was sort of the what, which was the creative concept starring Quavo and India Love.
And then a how was a digital first media plan in real life extensions of the campaign concept, such as our partnership with the Rams and Jen Prince over there, who was a phenomenal partner, and then multiple influencer layers and activations designed to drive word of mouth.
So we sort of hit the ground running right away after I joined.
And I guess what I was so excited about as that campaign got into market second week of October and we started to see the results throughout the holiday season, we were really, really pleased to see.
Social impressions for the campaign were up 157 versus last year.
Social reach was up over 137% versus last year.
Follower growth was up double digits on Instagram.
Follower growth on TikTok was up 500% based on a result of this digital first media plan.
Media impressions were up almost 100 versus last year and earned media value up over 100 versus last year.
And so how that translated into business results.
What I can share is triple digit traffic increases to trueligioncom versus the same time period last year.
Significant sales increases versus the same time period versus last year.
And so it was really exciting to see this campaign come to life in such a successful way, just by taking a very, very different approach.
Again, 360, different layers of storytelling, but everything tying back to this style is a gift.
So, now that we have that under our belts, what I'm excited about go forward is a similar 360 campaign, in that everything ties back to one singular message.
We saw that that helped us be known for something in the marketplace.
Obviously, given the success of the campaign in total, it cut through the clutter in obviously a very cluttered time period, which was holiday.
So we're excited to launch our new spring campaign that is coming actually right around when this podcast goes live.
So stay tuned for that.
And then I think what you'll also see throughout the year is that we will continue to sit at the intersection of music and sport.
We know that our consumer is inspired by particularly hip hop artists.
So you'll see us double down more there. sports, in particular the NBA and the NFL.
So you will see more partnerships and activations within those sectors.
And then lastly, I think, an even better igniting of our influencer program that will cut across TikTok, as well as Instagram, with people that really love this brand, have worked with us in the past and have said
How do we create more deep and meaningful connections with you, the brand?
And so we'll make that announcement shortly as well.
But those are things that I'm proud that we've done so far and that I'm excited about in the future.
Wow, that is so impressive, Kristen.
Congratulations.
Amazing.
What stats?
I mean, that's amazing.
Thank you so much.
I mean, it's math and magic, right?
That's what marketing is.
But I mean, isn't it so fascinating how, when you like, it's such a great case study of like, having a goal, you know, putting your mind to something and then executing it, you know, and then seeing the results, you know?
It's like this is what happens when you put energy and time into something and you want to get the word out about a brand.
You know it's really inspiring.
It's very nice of you to say that, as I said, the team, the team really did an incredible, incredible job.
Um, and and quickly, the fact that we were able to do this really, from you know, very end of July through September and get the campaign live.
The second week of October is no short of a, of an amazing feat.
That's for sure.
The speed too.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
So, um, moving along, um, I also know that true religion, this sort of ties in, I guess.
Um, but it's.
You're kind of, we're in the midst of a of transforming into a digital first company or a DTC company, which I'm not sure if true religion has always been perceived of as that way.
So can you walk us through that and also your role in that transformation?
So about two or so years ago, we brought in a new head of e-commerce, Scott McCabe, who I think really started to push the notion of being digital first and consumer centric in so much of what we did and do and build upon the great foundation that had been laid by his predecessors.
So I came on board and he certainly has a vision with regard to e-commerce, of course, but I think he was really looking for partnership and collaboration in the what, and it goes back to what we were talking about earlier, which is the content.
And how do we make sure that we're picking people that are sort of digitally first-minded in their approach to content?
So that was one.
Two was had big enough and engaged reaches and followings.
Take Quavo, for example, over 20 million followers, very, very engaged audiences.
And obviously very, very relevant in the hip hop and style or fashion space.
And then I think the last was guidance in partnership with marketing on digital first media plans.
So if you don't have the right content, then you can't activate the right paid media plan.
And so when we embarked on the holiday journey together in that campaign, we made sure that there was a lot of social first assets.
So, behind the scenes, shooting of the campaign, naughty or nice QAs with India, Love stories that just kind of happened offhandedly on the set, about the talent Quavo in particular, who had a true religion tattoo from you know when he was in his teenage years and him saying this is a full circle moment.
I've always loved this brand.
And we didn't even know about that when we picked him, didn't know about that at the beginning of the shoot, but we were able to jump on that content as it was happening and then use that in social, both paid and organic.
The other thing we did as part of that shoot that we made sure was a nod to being digital first is we did some research ahead of time and saw that men within our target age range are very inspired with regard to fashion by YouTube, actually.
And they're using different YouTube content as sources of inspiration, and then also the brands that they should be buying.
So we made sure that, in addition to this short form content, we had the right kind of hero or anthemic content running on YouTube in order to get that male consumer interested and then ultimately buying in the brand.
So those would be a couple of examples, particularly in holiday, what we did to advance, becoming more of a digital first company.
And you will continue to see that, of course, throughout this year.
Great examples.
So cool.
I'd love to move a little bit into your leadership skills and strategies, because I'm sure you sort of had to lean into them for all of this.
I mean the fact that you came on, did so much stuff in such a quick fashion.
I'm not sure, but it's possible that it may have been difficult to get buy-in from team members when going through this.
Can you offer any best practices to our listeners around in general how to get your team on board whenever you're making major changes to a process at a company?
Sure.
I think, if I take a step back, even before you make the changes, What I have learned in doing this, for I guess, 20 plus years now, is that you can't make changes too fast until you really understand the business and the way the business works, slash the processes that are already in place.
Because if you move too fast and you don't have that understanding, then you're setting yourself and your team up to fail.
I've been in positions where CEOs have said to me one week in, excitedly so what are all the changes you're gonna make?
And I have learned to temper that excitement with just give me the right amount of time to make sure that the changes are, that I'm looking across sort of the full spectrum And I'm not blindly taking guesses at where I think changes need to occur.
So the first is, you know, take your time with regard to recommendations.
And like I said, make sure that you really understand the business.
I think the second then, with regard to change management on your team in particular, is showing them how their work connects back to driving the business.
So you can kind of work with them on the vision um, get them on board to trying something new, new processes, new ideas, new ways of looking at campaigns.
But ultimately, when you're able to come back and say here's an early read, or we made this pivot and here's what happened, i think always being able to come back so that they understand the results not only kind of keeps them engaged but also gets them, you know, enables buy-in for future.
Such recommendations go forward.
So that would be the second.
And then I think, the third, and this is with regard to the broader organization, so cross-functional partners.
You know collaboration and I'm sure you have so many people on this podcast say this how critical, important collaboration is.
But I think the underneath, that what I have learned is also really important with regard to collaboration is bring people along the journey with you.
You know there are no ta-da moments that are really well received versus hey, cross-functional partner X based on the little I might know of the business early on.
I'm thinking about this from a marketing perspective.
What do you think?
Have you tried it before?
Have you ever had something similar way of thinking?
Is this totally off?
Because if you're to go off in a vacuum and do something on your own or with your team, and again you say ta-da, here it is, and you don't have that buy-in and you haven't brought people along the journey number one, you could be totally wrong.
Your hunch could be off, particularly if you're new.
And number two, then there is less likely the chance that they're going to support you and then help you pull it off.
And, as we all know, it takes a village to get these things into market and optimize them in the right way and have them be successful.
So that's my last piece of advice, not only collaboration, but No ta-da moments.
Make sure that you are bringing people along the journey with you.
Therefore, it's this collective work of greatness, not one person or one team.
So great.
It's basically communication, like over communicate.
You know, to me that's the key to everything is making sure you're clear and getting everyone to understand what you're doing.
And then they'll feel like they're a part of it.
You are exactly right.
Those were great sort of leadership tactics or lessons.
But I know that you have decades of experience working at everything from Fortune 500 companies to startups in other industries besides retail.
You were working in a consulting capacity.
You know, given all of this, you know, are there any other leadership lessons you can share?
Or you know, maybe not so much about buy-in, but just kind of in general?
I, I think, you know, I think those are the big ones.
I guess, just having come off of a team offsite yesterday which was designed to have fun, you know, I guess that's, that's the other piece, right?
Is that.
I know it's work and and we're all there for for a purpose, but the other piece is to just have fun with your team.
And I think When you can do that, you show a human side.
And at the end of the day, you know and you talked about communication, but at the end of the day, it's communication and relationships that you have within your own team and that you have cross-functionally.
So adding in a little bit of fun and I think we had that yesterday also helps remind everybody that it doesn't have to quite be so serious.
You know, we take our job seriously, but we're not saving lives.
And there does need to be a little bit of that respite every now and then.
So that would probably be my last piece of advice.
Yeah.
Do you mind me asking what you guys did for your offsite?
Was it something fun?
That would be something that you'd want to share, or maybe others can do if they're looking for ways to keep their teams engaged and happy.
Well, for those in, I suppose, California or Florida, it would work.
We ended up going to Disneyland.
Fun.
But we did that with another cross-functional team.
And there's just, you know, a lot of new faces in the building among these teams.
And we thought you know everybody's been working together so well.
But what better way than just to relax a little bit and have some fun?
And what was interesting about yesterday is seeing sort of among the two teams who took leadership roles in terms of who had the Disney app downloaded, who was looking at the wait time for Pirates in the Caribbean versus you know, the monsters ride, who was sort of the natural leader versus who leaned back.
So although it was fun, I do think there's a lot of interesting insights that you can kind of glean when you get everybody out of the building.
The other thing that we're doing, which is both team building and the teams seem to think it's fun but is also very insightful is I learned about the Enneagram a while ago.
And everybody at a certain point should know enough about themselves that the number that they get between one through nine after taking the test should not be a surprise.
But the Enneagram, the way that I've used it in the past, is really really helpful for understanding the different personalities you have on your team and almost figuring out, based on what number they're most associated with, how to motivate them, how to keep them inspired and When they start to go.
I think they call it down level, which is you know if you're stressed, then what are the different.
You know flags so that, as a manager or a leader, I know what to look for.
But then importantly, how do I motivate you during those times of stress so that you feel empowered and confident to keep moving forward?
So I really love that tool in trying to understand who different people are, particularly if you're new to an organization.
Right,
And you're getting to know everybody.
But then how to work with them to make sure that you are bringing out their best in the way that is tailored to them?
And that's where I think it's kind of the holy grail.
I love that so much.
We've done stuff like that at our company.
I'm all about those kinds of tests and I understand what you're saying.
At one point in your career it's about you, but I feel like it's even more important later on to learn about your teams, Enneagrams and how, how to manage them.
You know, based on it, everybody's different.
You can't, you can't just manage people with your management style.
It's like everybody's different.
So I just love that so much.
So I'm excited to hear your, your take on this.
I did a little research and, um, I heard that you learned about reliance from Jeffrey the giraffe.
The toys are us giraffe.
And I love this story.
And it's kind of ties into everything we're talking about, about being forward thinking and being positive and being a good leader.
So why don't you share that with our listeners?
So the timing of this is actually pretty interesting and relevant because the Detroit Lions we'll see how they do this weekend and obviously this podcast is coming out afterwards but their coach has really built the team on this notion of grit and ultimately, you know, that was the impetus behind the Jeffrey the giraffe.
It's not even a story the Jeffrey the giraffe experience that I had as a child.
My parents always had said you know, life is going to kind of knock you down.
But the real story of your character is based on how quickly and elegantly you're able to pop back up.
And the Jeffrey the giraffe was a punching bag that I had as a child, so did my brother.
And you know, you'd kind of punch the giraffe and he would immediately, because there was a weight on the bottom, he would immediately pop back up.
And I love that analogy.
I grew up in the Midwest.
You know hardworking family.
But I love the memory of that story because I think about it all the time.
Life and business, right?
Life is going to give you highs and lows, but it is about how you move through those and you act with elegance and humility and you take every quote unquote failure, which I actually don't even believe in.
You take that as a lesson.
Go forward.
So it did happen.
Thank you, mom and dad, for buying that, that toy, because now you know seemingly, decades and decades later, I still think about that.
And it's a value that I've held on to, you know, for many, many, many years.
Yeah, I love that so much.
It's so great.
Along the same line of the story.
Can you talk about a time in your career when maybe you had a little bit of a challenge or a setback and got through it and it actually helped grow your career, grow you as a leader?
Sure.
I think you know there are times when you get into roles and you realize that it's not quite what you thought it would be, and or the culture is different from what you want or had envisioned.
And those are almost more difficult lessons, I think, than, oh, this campaign quote unquote failed.
Because, like I said, I you know, and especially now with so much of it being digital first, you're getting immediate feedback and you can pivot and you just have to be nimble.
So.
So I think you know the example of the role wasn't quite what you thought it would be, or the culture isn't what you thought it would be.
Slash what you want is a really tough experience to go through.
And I guess what I've learned that I've taken forward is to really understand what is important to you.
And if it is a culture that is X, then during the interview process how do you make sure that you are looking around every blind spot so that you are getting kind of the real deal of what that culture is?
You ask the right questions so that you're able to ascertain that.
And then if it doesn't work, then you don't see that quite again as a failure, but as a learning lesson for what you can do differently.
So you get the right information upfront to be able to make the best decision.
So and we've all, I think, had those moments, but again I look at them more as lessons.
That has just that have made me very, very hyper clear on what is important to me and what I know will keep me happy in a role.
Great, great, great advice.
We ask everybody this on this call, because it's so important and it's such an important part of being a leader and a woman in today's crazy busy society that we all live in, or crazy busy world.
Can you share some work-life integration tips you swear by?
I noticed we didn't say work-life balance.
I, I and I understand why I a couple of different things that that I do, that I've taken from other mentors, or even my brother, you know, who has a big job in finance.
And I think we're all just trying to figure out the right way to, to integrate both to your point.
So the, the first is I, prepare on Sunday for the entirety of the week upcoming.
I'm not only looking through my schedule, but I'm really trying to crystallize in my mind what are the things that we have to prioritize and achieve this week.
And that leads into on Monday mornings.
So if I back up, number one is get organized.
The better organized you are and I say this to my team as well and there's processes in place, then the greater the likelihood there's success when you need to pivot.
And whether that's in business or pivot in life, right?
I have an appointment or this thing happened or whatever it might be.
So the preparation, I think, is key for the right success in business and in life.
So after that preparation and really thinking through what are the priorities on Sunday, it's then going into Monday with the team.
And we have a Monday morning marketing leadership team.
And it's walking them through, here are the priorities that I see across the team.
Are we all aligned?
Do we feel good about the resources we have in place?
Slash the status of each one of these things so that we can accomplish this week's objectives and get through the priorities.
Then we have a second one of those at the end of the week to kind of gauge marketing leadership.
How did we do against what we had set out to at the beginning of the week?
And again, that organization is um, the communication, which we've talked about a lot here.
That helps give you, I think, breathing room, because everybody is aligned so that you don't feel like you are chasing, you're running behind, people are unclear and then you literally can't get yourself off of emails or calls.
So the organization and the communication I think is critical.
Um, And then I guess just little things that I do personally.
I do not check email anymore as soon as I wake up.
I did that all in my 30s because I wanted to be on top of it and kind of start the day right.
And now I realize what starting the day right quote unquote looks like is taking time for me, kind of slowly getting into the flow of business.
So that's meditation and working out.
And then looking at the emails, because inevitably there's always going to be 100 plus of them anyway.
They're not going anywhere.
But getting into that right mindset to kind of take on the day, at least for me, has been important.
And then the last is I've gone back and forth on this over the last 20 years to having one phone that has my work email attached to it, or two phones, one personal and one work.
And where I am these days is I have a separate work phone.
And so people have my personal cell phone number, of course.
If something is urgent, they will call it.
But when I'm at the gym, and actually also on the weekends, I try to leave the work phone at home, knowing that if something urgent were to come up, anybody can get a hold of me.
But it helps with that separation.
And, I think, just giving you a chance to breathe and recoup a little bit before you dive back in on that Sunday when you need to get yourself and the team's priorities organized.
Great.
Awesome.
I mean, those are such great examples because you're covering.
You covered everything from yourself.
You know what you need to do for yourself with the phones and exercise, but then also what you need you know to be a good leader.
You know organizing the week on Sundays and stuff.
So that's great.
I love that.
I love doing that on Sundays to kind of getting your head together for the week.
Definitely.
So in closing, it's the new year, it's early February when this comes out.
So what are some goals that you have for yourself personally and professionally this year?
It's such a great question.
And I love that you cut across both areas of business and personal.
I think on the personal side, I believe that a healthy body really helps keep the mind healthy.
And so I am prioritizing working out not um just to fit into a smaller pair of true religion jeans at all, but also to help.
You know, I find when I run I think about.
Maybe um opportunities that are happening in the office and the solutions come so much more quickly during that run.
And so, again, that makes me believe that a healthy body leads to a healthy mind.
So I'm definitely trying to prioritize the time to do that this year for sure.
The second is, you know, reading more.
I think I have.
I used to be in a routine a couple years ago where I was reading at least two different books a month.
And the reading more is not just to expand, I think, your horizons but to diversify what the knowledge coming in as well.
So I used to only read business books because I just wanted to amass as much knowledge as possible.
And now it's.
You know I'm rereading 1776, for example, because history is really important, you know.
So trying to read more but diversify the things that I'm either rereading or learning or reading for the first time.
And then I think, on a professional level you know it goes back to what we said earlier whether it's Disney or Enneagrams or otherwise but really making sure that I am focused on, on building this team to continue to be one that's high functioning.
We're bringing new people in, which is great, figuring out what makes them tick and ultimately, this is about making all of them better so that we have such a solid bench that, you know, 10 different people could take my job tomorrow, and I've always felt that way, that that that should ultimately be the goal Um, but then you need to work on it and you need to spend a lot of time with them.
And so that is a priority from a business perspective, for sure.
Great.
Well, Kristen, this has been an amazing time.
I feel like I've learned a lot about you, even though I thought I knew a lot about you, but I feel like I've learned more.
I'm inspired.
And congratulations on your success and everything you're doing at True Religion.
And I'm sure there's going to be lots more to come.
So thank you so much for your time today.
And hopefully we'll see you soon sometime face to face.
So thanks a lot, Kristen, for joining us.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for listening.
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