From the heart of Beijing to the edges of the global stage, you're at Roundtable.
I'm Niu Honglin.
Cities across China have spent years cultivating nighttime economies restaurants, retail entertainment.
Now a new layer has been added, education after dark.
From Shanghai's 143 teaching sites to Sichuan's 88 youth night schools serving hundreds of thousands, evening classes are becoming part of urban infrastructure.
Today, let's take a closer look at the courses, the teaching staff and the ultimate appeal that drives students in.
For today's show, I'm joined by Steve Heatherly and Yushan.
Now pull up a chair and join the conversation.
By day, he is a rising inheritor of a century-old Peking opera tradition.
By night he's teaching office workers at night school on how to appreciate this elegance, hoping to plant just one seed of Chinese aesthetics in the student's heart.
From AI courses to vocal training and makeup tutorials.
Night schools are booming in cities, attracting exhausted finance workers and programmers.
They are affordable, social, low-pressure, and surprisingly addictive.
Are these classes about skills self-cultivation, or are they a new way of a generation to fight against the capability anxiety and fast speed lifestyle?
What is going on?
Why are night schools being popular?
We've talked about this on Roundtable, I feel like, because the phenomenon of night schools have been there for a while, but apparently recently it's flourishing.
But I still want to know, have you, any of you, attended any night school?
Any experience there?
Yeah, I've done it a couple of times in my life.
I took Korean language classes, obviously when I was living in Korea, for about six months.
So I finished work and then had a quick dinner and then went over to school.
The school, it was at a university, and the classes were from 7 to 9.30 at night, I think.
Really quite challenging.
That was one time.
So stressful.
Not really stressful.
It's just you're exhausted after your work.
That's why it's stressful.
To use your brain again.
The other time I took night classes was for a martial art.
So I would finish my day job, again, have a quick dinner, and then go for it.
Those were only an hour and a half at night.
That was more challenging than the language class.
Oh, you want to hear the story?
So I go, right?
Because I'm new in Korea at the time and I want to learn something Korean culture based.
And I'm a young guy.
I'm like 24.
So one of my co-workers said, oh, Hapkido.
There's Taekwondo and Hapkido.
Taekwondo is kind of, in my opinion.
No offense to anyone who studies Taekwondo, but it's a little bit more on the performative side than Hapkido is.
Nice to look at.
Hapkido is quite serious about how to defend yourself if you find yourself in a dangerous situation.
So I go and I meet the sabonim, the master.
And he says, look, these are all black belt students in the class.
I don't want to turn you away.
But I'm telling you right now if you come in this class, you're going to do what the other students do.
You're not going to just sit in the corner and watch.
That's when I will leave.
I grew up playing ice hockey.
I'm thinking...
Whatever.
How hard can this be?
The first class, I'll stop my story here.
The first class, I threw up in the bathroom because it was so difficult.
But I got in great shape after a few months.
Oh, I kind of get what you're saying here, because I myself have experience of these kind of night schools and sometimes weekend schools.
It's just, it's quite hard to find the balance or find the energy that you still.
You squeeze the energy left in your body after work for these kind of classes.
Because for me, it was interpretation classes.
It was Cantonese.
And I also tried something.
I think it's in the align with the self-defense related classes, which is also quite demanding.
So for me, that was never a fun experience.
That was, oh, and also I even learned a little bit coding.
I failed, but I learned it.
Well, I started coding.
And anyways, it was more challenging than fun.
But apparently now here in China a lot of night schools.
They are smartly blending a little bit learning, a little bit entertainment and a little bit of Like we mentioned, planting a seed in one's mind and having them realize that oh, I can be really serious about this and I can have this skill grow on me on a longer term.
Yeah, I see this as a revitalization of those youth clubs that we used to attend as a kid.
After school you get to some youth clubs, sometimes happening in the same very school you attend during daytime, that the school teachers themselves will attend.
Teach you how to play I don't know guitar piano, or teach you to paint and stuff.
So that's what's going on in China now.
These night schools, they're opening up not only to kids and youth, but also to adults.
And they offer you courses that are closely aligned with what modern day young people are actually caring about.
There's arts classes, sports classes, lifestyle skills, Even AI or I don't know, coding perhaps is still falling within that category too.
So these class, they are affordable, usually around only 50 yuan per class.
So it's relatively more affordable than like how I used to pay for, like periodical trainings in the weekends or sometimes in the evenings for one go.
That's like three times. they're charging for these night school classes.
And the schedule is often very convenient as well.
It can be on weekday evenings or sometimes naturally planned out on the weekends too.
And Yeah, ever since 2023.
I think that's around the time when the once we call old fashioned concept of night school has really kicked in, kicked back in with the trendy on the trendy tide among young people.
And actually the city of Shanghai contributed a lot to that.
Because one particular case is the Shanghai Citizen Art Night School that's launched ever since 2016.
But apparently now they still run two sessions per year, one in spring and one in autumn.
So take their autumn period session, for example.
It's launched by the Shanghai Mass Art Center.
And that's its main campus where a lot of the courses are taking place.
And a measure on it.
The majority of the classes is like two...
I don't know how to describe it, like small groups that's with district level partners to set up 25 branch schools.
And now there, you mentioned 143 locations.
That's the total number of the locations of the schools that's spanning across Shanghai nowadays.
Oh, and it's all organized by one.
By one brand.
And altogether, it offers 382 courses and enrolls more than 9,000 in-person students nowadays.
And they learn a whole lot of stuff there.
There's Chinese painting, there's dancing and singing.
And that's just the Shanghai case in a lot of other cities is happening too.
I remember that was the time when Roundtable first talked about night schools.
And I remember at that time the seats were packed and it was really hard to get a quota in those one of those classes.
But now it's really great to see that the model, the night school, um training sessions, are spread out across the country.
Yeah, i think it's different now, i think, the way that we think about night school, and i think this is true for canada too, because i searched um, i did a search before the show do canadians go to night school for fun?
And the answer was no.
It said, Canadians usually go to night school for extra credits towards their major or to help their career or something like that.
And that's my point.
I think that's the connotation with night school, is that we do it so that we can further our career or better ourselves.
That will somehow benefit us in that way.
That's why I took those Korean classes so that I could do better in my career in Korea.
Maybe that's why you took the coding classes, right?
But this is a little bit different.
In fact, this is a lot different because the types of classes are very unique and very niche.
Let's go back to Shanghai for this fun one.
Can I interest you in a pet nutrition and cake making class, Yushan?
Both!
How niche is that?
I think I've heard about something.
I'm not sure if it's the exact brand you were talking about, but I've heard a lot of salons and just events happening in Shanghai featuring that pet nutrition and cake-making theme.
So one of the founders of Pet Kitchen the brand founder actually said that the class combines series research on pet health with hands-on baking.
Because on social media nowadays people often say promote that different pets, different breeds require different nutrition, different kind of caretaking.
Some require more low fat, some needs more high fiber treats.
So it's really important that people are, you know, teaching people how to make food for your pet, as long as you're interested.
Yeah, the cakes, the cakes, by the way, are for the pets.
I mean, this just sounds so random, doesn't it?
But the education side of things.
Yeah, it includes things about nutrition and stuff, but also pet physiology, which is something that some pet owners are interested in.
And then I don't know if you know this, but a lot of pet owners really love to make their own treats for their pets.
Tried, failed.
Oh, really?
Now you have a place to learn.
No, she doesn't because the class filled up instantly.
There were only 20 spots available.
And they were all gone immediately.
So I think we we have evidence here that even on the surface, these classes, some of these classes, that's just one example.
But they might seem a little silly, or they might seem a little like who's going to be interested in that?
On the surface,
But the fact of the matter is there's a lot of demand for a lot of different types of things.
That's partly why in Beijing we see that one founder of one night school got its classes expanded to more than 100 in just two years.
In Sichuan.
We see They have launched 88 one brand have launched 88 youth night schools and serving around 200000 young people.
And in Taiwan, which is my hometown, they have been using the kind of spaces I think it's office buildings that have been left there during nighttime unused, to be decorated and repurposed as an intangible cultural heritage workshop, a Chinese dance classroom and a piano corner.
It all sounds very smart and interesting.
And in all of these cases you see that different local government and community workers are being a part of organizing it and trying to find the right place, find the right subsidy for the organizations.
So more teachers would be able to join and more students would be able to enjoy.
And one other highlight that I see from this is that intangible cultural heritage, hobbies or these kind of skill teaching is, among all others, kind of popular among people, young people from all over China.
So you mentioned in Shanxi province here in Gansu province in the city of Pingliang.
There they have a winter series of youth night school courses and they open classes like calligraphy lamp DIY.
So that means you write calligraphy on lamp materials and then make it into a lamp or a lantern-shaped lamp, I would say.
So that's something that young people are participating.
You will see calligraphy.
So I used to think calligraphy practicing are so boring.
But nowadays they design those into handicraft art pieces.
And also there's the Song Dynasty or rather Song style brocade heritage craft workshop.
That's a type of embroidery, if not weaving technology.
That's, you know, coming from all those years ago.
So that's what young people are into nowadays.
And that's what they're cooking into courses in night schools.
They're into everything.
You've got your traditional stuff.
Like it's not surprising to hear that there are dance classes.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, you go to the gym any gym, bigger gym and you'll see probably some sort of dance class or yoga class or something like that happening on the side.
Piano too.
But how about this?
This is in Beijing, actually.
You can take an evening class for magic tricks.
I've done that.
No.
Magician.
You did not.
I've done that when I was in Thailand.
When I was in university I bought the gadgets and then i took the classes.
At that time it was during weekends, but i can totally go for a night school if it teaches magic.
How did you get good?
Did you learn anything?
Yeah, i did, i did, and it was a weird period of time.
At that time i was playing all the magic tricks to Wow my then boyfriend, now husband, which is, I think, quite strange.
It's so often the other way around.
But yes, I get the appeal.
He was like, I got to marry this magician.
She's magic for me.
That was the fun thing.
Because for my case, when I was in university, I got a bit more time compared to high school.
And I have the demand for something fun, for something that I can not only enjoy but also participate.
I can learn.
And I also want the things that I'm learning to be a little more cultural, a little more sophisticated better than just Singing in a karaoke on the wrong note, which leads to my singing classes.
You were quite busy.
Well, I have fun in different ways.
That was the reason that I took all these classes.
And I would assume that's partly the reason that a lot of young people are taking in the classes, the courses in the night schools.
But at the same time we see those who are organizing these night schools and giving these courses also make an effort in attracting more quote-unquote consumers.
And a lot of the times, these places that's organizing these events and trainings.
They are Right in there in the communities, among the people.
So people now want affordable classes close to home.
And by classes I mean events.
That's really a nice place to build skills.
Not only to build skills, but also to explore something you're truly interested in.
And, in the meantime, meet friends, meet like-minded people who are not your workplace colleagues or not your friends for sharing the deepest secrets, but just pure in sharing your joy for something that you both like.
So that's what young people are digging into nowadays.
And we mentioned in multiple cases, how these communities are utilizing the idle spaces.
That's, It's right there anyway at nighttime and nobody's using.
So yeah, it's a win-win for both parties the schools, the communities and the people in need of skills and fun.
I would say from the friendship aspect, which is another one, that people are talking about one of the great benefits, but I don't think that's just for young people at all.
Think about if you are a mom or a dad and you finish work.
You come home, you take care of your house responsibilities, your family responsibilities.
That doesn't leave a lot of time to go out and make new friends or even meet the friends you have.
Meeting new friends.
Everybody knows, no matter how old you are.
One of the hard parts is finding something in common with a new person.
But one of the things that people talk about with these classes is that you're in the same class, you already have a common interest in, And there's a reason for your connection.
So people are loving that aspect of it, too.
It's not forcing friendships per se, but it's definitely making them readily available for people who do want them.
And there's another reason that Yushan has touched on already a little.
For one example that Yushan mentioned, one class costs around 50 yuan.
And is that something common across all these different night schools?
Are they all this affordable?
I think it's a trend among the night school, at least organizers.
That's what they're aiming for.
It's not like they're using market average prices for their night school trainings like that.
Pet nutrition course organizer said.
They're not aiming to price at the same level in the market, because that would have cost like tens of thousands of yuan.
And then at night school they charge about 12 sessions Only 500 yuan, or roughly 72 dollars, which is sweet, sweet and affordable for many.
And that happens in other different schools, too.
One student paid 500 yuan for an eight session coffee fundamental course in Sichuan province.
And another class organizer in Beijing insists on keeping prices at 500 yuan for 10 classes.
So we see that's a trend and that's how young people can easily join in and share that time with other people.
And it also increased people's kind of like willingness in spending their night time instead of just sitting at home but going out and make friends and have fun.
We talked about having fun in the night schools a lot already but to be honest, the old-fashioned learning something so you can be, you can also earn that edge in your workplace.
They still exist.
Or learn some practical life skill like for some people they do not know how to do makeup And if photography, that's another popular class.
Exactly.
And these things are hobbies for some people, but necessary skills for others.
Another popular one is decluttering your home.
Yeah, which is an actual class that you can take.
I think that one's offered in Chengdu or maybe it's Beijing.
Anyway, yeah, really popular.
And you go and you learn things like how to organize your closet better or things like that.
And that. is a skill on its own.
Learning how to do things like that and make your life a little bit better in that aspect is another thing people are interested in.
Yes.
And the way I see it is that many young people, especially those from my generation, if not younger, we have relatively more limited in-person social interaction as we grow up.
If you talk to me about night school, I would feel that a bit far away from me, because i only think about like, language teaching, night schools.
Yeah, it feels like it needs a new, feels like it needs a new name.
And now we, when we think about getting trained, the first thought for me, for example, i always go to online courses, and i believe that's the case for a lot of young people in china, if not around the world too.
But nowadays we see, as young adults, we are really eager for real world connections so that we bring those trainings that we're so used to take online back offline.
In the meantime, make new friends.
And that's agreed by researchers from the Chinese Academy of Educational Sciences too, and also professors from another university in Shandong.
So today's young people, they say, are highly educated and increasingly aware of lifelong learning.
So this is another thing for young people nowadays.
We seek real interpersonal relationships offline and we seek to learn as many as possible, whether it's helpful to our career building or not.
And among this, we've already mentioned the factor of intangible cultural heritage.
Now we know that for someone who is interested in their own culture, they would definitely want to have a little try in calligraphy or in any type of embroidery.
It would be a fun thing to do.
But what's interesting for me is that those serious inheritors they are provincial level inheritors or national level inheritors they have a quote-unquote serious job in schools, in study institutions, and to them these things are art.
These things are their life purpose.
And they're willing to go to these night schools to spread what they believe in, to share what they are really good at to the real immature.
So what are they thinking?
Well, there's certainly the idea of going where the audience is, because night schools they reach busy young adults in convenient after work settings where people just go attend, as long as it's not too far away from them.
People like me, we will be very much willing to just attend something that we're really into.
That's the drive.
That's the initiative of trying to learn something like that.
And Holden, do you remember?
Last year we went to Guizhou in Southwest China and there's one stop among the very first stops we take in that province was to go to the local museum.
And while contacting the museum operator, we were like it was around the time of a national holiday, I believe.
I'm not sure which one, but it was a time when everybody go back home instead of gathering together for work.
But the museum operator.
She told me, if you really need to learn, like certain very local intangible cultural heritage skills, We can call these artists and they will be really happy to return back to Guiyang, the capital city of Guizhou province, and attend your activities for shooting or for whatever, for interviewing.
Because they see it as their mission to share what they know to people who are interested in what they see as their pride.
So that's something that really echoes here.
That's real passion.
Yeah, you ask why these people want to come and teach.
That's precisely why.
Have you been a teacher before ever in a classroom?
Nope.
Okay.
Some people like it.
Some people like teaching and some people don't.
And then for the people that like teaching, it's either an amazing experience or an empty experience.
It's an empty experience if the students you are teaching are not interested in the subject that you are teaching.
For example, I don't know, high school math or something.
Maybe your students are just staring at you thinking like, when is this over?
I can tell you, when you teach a group of people who are really interested in learning what you're teaching them, it's such a rewarding experience.
And I think that's what these teachers at these classes are in it for.
Photography makeup, decluttering closets, whatever it is, whatever the subject is, the students who are there want to learn.
And for that, I think it's such an incentive for the teachers to be there.
So we've laid the ground.
We've got students who are really interested in the courses.
We've got teachers who are enthusiasts about teaching and we've got organizers finding the right location, finding also the right funding to do all these.
All that being said, because we have just concluded our spring festival period of time, and this is the time when we will go back to home and reunite with our old friends.
And I think for my generation.
At my time, When you are thinking about some nighttime fun with friends or just by yourself, you're thinking about going to a fancy restaurant and shopping a little bit, walking in the mall, going to a karaoke place to spend two or three hours.
And for a generation younger than mine, perhaps a little escape room, challenging maybe a little sitting down and having a meeting.
No, I'm not talking about having a meeting.
I'm talking about playing in character and trying to solve some mystery cases.
Yes, that your character...
It's called LARP, like something, a role play, a real thing.
I thought you burped after lunch.
A mystery solving kind of game.
But now we're looking at another possibility, another choice.
That is, you can have your best friend as your classmate in one of these courses and learn something while having fun.
But at the same time, you also mentioned the fact that they are quite inexpensive and And some of them are community-based and community-supported, meaning that it's not exactly a very mature form, a mature mode of startup business or any kind of business.
So what do you think?
Do you think this would be a new drive for the nighttime economy or it will stay as somehow like a social benefit kind of project?
One of the researchers who was commenting on this topic said that night schools are pretty unlikely to become a standardized startup model for future entrepreneurs because most students and teachers well, they already have full-time responsibilities, albeit jobs or what have you.
And that's not exactly the perfect storm for a successful business, at least in terms of sustainability.
But that's how those night schools are meant to function, right?
Keep going and going and going and going.
So I think it's one of the hard things about continuing this as a business is that your students are unlikely to stay there for three or four or five years.
So there's a high turnover rate there.
So you're constantly having to find new customers, and that's got to be a tough thing to do.
Yeah, there's the uncertainty.
And then there's something that I believe a lot of these platforms need to stand on and ground their career on is to increase their course quality.
Because as long as you provide legitimate training to people, there's going to be people coming, regardless of age or if they just get off work or not.
So nowadays, some public night schools still rely heavily on government funding and they currently lack stable business models.
But in the meantime, we see the idea or rather the concept of night school keep on evolving.
You guys both said we need to change the name for it.
There's off time training, there's weekend training, you name it.
So, as long as you have keep, as long as you keep the good quality courses, I believe that's going to be your biggest selling point, no matter which form you give out your training.
I think on this, I am a bit more optimistic.
I think at least these night schools are luring people out of their homes, allowing them to stay in the same location so they can socialize and become friends.
And if I have a night school at around eight o'clock, I would not want to cook for myself.
I would go out and have dinner sometime.
And if afterwards I really made friends with the classmates, we may hang out somehow.
So even if it cannot be a direct driver of the local nighttime economy, it can still be a quite strong positive influence.
So a good thing for a lot of different parties.
Have you ever considered combining your skills to teach your own class?
Like, That would be very strange.
The singing magician, something like that.
I will pull a rabbit out of this hat.
And also speaking Cantonese a little bit, maybe.
Yeah, the coding interpreter.
That would be a very strange course to teach, but could be fun.
