Hi, my name is Dominic Sandbrook and I feel surprisingly aroused about being Conan O'Brien's friend.
Okay, you understand that.
Hi, my name is Tom Holland, and I feel chuffed about being Conan O'Brien's friend.
Okay, looking that up now on UK Slang.
Fall is here.
Hear the yell Back to school.
Ring the bell.
Brand new shoes, walkin' blues, Climb the fence, books and pens.
I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
Hey there.
Welcome to Conan O'Brien.
Needs a friend.
Shocking.
Shocking revelation today.
Sonam of Session is not with us.
Her chair, like Tiny Tim's little stool in the corner, is empty.
Just a crutch.
She's not here.
No.
Instead, it's just Matt and I. Which is nice, because this is a different dynamic for us.
There's none of that her braying laugh.
Yeah.
She's a nice icebreaker, though, because isn't it a little awkward?
It's just you and me, you know, reminds me of an old Norm Macdonald joke.
He said, yeah, I went to went home for Thanksgiving and saw the family.
And my dad and I accidentally made eye contact.
And I thought, God damn it.
I relate to that.
So now we have to look in each other's eyes.
No, you can't.
You can't do it.
I can't do that.
I can't do that.
But do you know where Sona is?
I don't.
No one told me where she went.
You're going to love this.
Okay.
She is speaking, I think a featured guest speaker at an assistance convention.
No, she's not.
Is that a bit?
I swear to God.
This is not a bit.
This is true.
Yeah.
I can just see your eyes glowing.
Is it a how-to or like a cautionary tale?
I don't know.
Do you know what I mean?
No, I think she is, you know.
Is it a scared straight?
She turns the chair around backwards and sits down.
Look, guys, if you want to be an assistant, don't do what I did.
Wow.
I know.
So she's telling people how to be an assistant.
Ostensibly.
I don't know if it's a Q&A or she's doing a speech about it, but she is- It could be a trial.
Of war crimes.
Maybe it's an entrapment.
She's like Eichmann.
She's in a glass booth.
She's wearing headphones.
People are coming up and testifying against her.
We may never see her again.
No, we're not going to see her because I know what the verdict's going to be.
Wow, that's incredible.
She also found out recently before going to this that it's for a bunch of tech company assistants.
Yeah.
So it's not even like industry entertainment assistants.
This is specifically tech.
Oh, this is a disaster.
I mean, I wish we could find out where it is and quickly drive over there in a van.
Let's find out when she's back.
Remind me, we have to dig down deep. on what happened.
We'll do a whole segment on it.
Yeah.
We got to find out more.
It's just astounding to me.
But you know, we love our Sona.
We do miss her.
We do.
Rest in peace.
Yeah.
Well, no, please.
She's fine.
You always go right to rest in peace.
Well, that was a good meal.
Yep.
Rest in peace.
No.
How are you?
This is a chance for us to really drill down.
How are you, Matt Gourley, as a person?
How's your life?
It's good.
Look at me.
I'm right here.
No, I can't.
Look me in the eye.
I can't do it.
Look at me.
Oh.
Right past you.
Oh, wow.
I'm good.
I'm good.
Thank you.
How are you?
You didn't say anything, and then you put it right back on me.
How am I going to find out about you?
What do you want to know?
I'm an open book.
You aren't.
You aren't an open book.
How are things at home?
How's everything going?
Good, good.
My daughter's cracking me up daily.
How old is she now?
She's going to be four by the time this comes out.
Okay.
Yeah.
Very good.
Yeah, this doesn't air for three years.
Okay.
So that's great.
Yeah.
Is she funny?
She's really funny.
Yeah.
She's a character, man.
She rules the house.
She's a like beta to the rest of the world, but it just horrible alpha to me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what happens.
Is it?
They're like lovely to other people and then they come home and they're absolute Mussolini's.
You're not kidding.
Yeah.
Even when it comes down to play, like she gives me my lines for when we're playing.
Oh yeah.
She dictates them to me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it sounds like you're miserable at home.
Yeah.
I'm having some struggles.
Well, feel free to talk to me anytime about anything that's going on in your life.
I'd rather not.
I'd rather you didn't either.
Okay, all right.
You know what you should do?
Schedule it with David Hopping.
Okay.
Now there's an assistant.
I could talk to him.
You know who's not gonna go to an assistance convention is David Hopping.
Yeah.
How are you?
I gotta ask David.
Okay.
David keeps my schedule and he tells me how I am.
I'm doing very well, thank you.
And I am going to head east to New York very shortly to help this is a new experience for me promote a film that I'm in.
I know, this is exciting.
Yeah, and this is a new thing for me to say, You got to go check out my picture, see?
I mean, that's nothing I've aspired to or ever thought would happen.
You should come on this podcast.
I should come on this podcast.
We should take, you know what we should do?
We should take me talking and asking questions and then switch it around and I'll do the other side.
It's a good idea, actually.
No, I mean, actually, it's an idea that I said, which by definition is a good idea.
Yeah, it's an idea that I said.
Nice tune, Mozart.
Not necessary.
Not necessary.
God, what a prick.
I don't know why anybody talks to me.
This is why I'm trying to get out of it.
You're being paid.
No, I do like talking to you and I can look you in the eye and I am happy.
You're blinking in Morse code.
Please save me.
Yeah, so that's my story.
Okay.
I'm in the pictures.
Let's end this.
We should get to this because this is a really fun.
No.
Okay.
Okay.
I want out.
Will you read the intro for Christ's sake?
Okay.
Wow.
Religious.
My guests today are two historians who co-host one of the most successful history podcasts in the world.
The rest is history.
I listen to these gentlemen all the time.
They're always in my ear and they are brilliant.
Tom Holland and Dominic Sambra, welcome.
Gentlemen, I'm going to begin by saying that it is quite a comedown for me to have you on the podcast, and I'll explain why.
I have a very large ego and for a while I believed that I had the greatest podcast ever in the world.
I really did.
I really thought I cannot be touched.
No one can come close.
And then one day, several years ago, I heard someone mention this podcast called The Rest is History.
And I'm a history buff.
I listened to one episode.
I listened to two.
I listened to three and four.
I've now listened to possibly 300 or 400 of your 800.
I'm working my way through.
And I have to concede that you have the greatest podcast.
That's gracious.
You will always have the greatest podcast.
I'm loving this podcast.
I am an addict.
I'm here to confess my addiction.
And you're in my ears all the time.
And whenever people ask me, what podcast do you listen to?
I don't give them a list.
I say it's The Rest is History with Tom and Dominic.
I was starstruck.
When I heard your voices and I was in the room upstairs in my Larchmont, this is a palace, really.
Yeah.
I heard your voices.
I couldn't believe that you were here.
So not since I met George Harrison back at Saturday Night Live back in the day have I been this excited.
And you met Paul McCartney.
Yes, I've met Paul McCartney.
But way more exciting.
Yeah.
You guys are, no, no.
I'm going to put you on the same level.
Okay.
We'll take it.
You're on the same level.
So gentlemen, thank you so much for being here.
Really.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having us.
That's all the time we have.
It's been lovely having you.
It's fine.
You've said enough for us.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's end it there.
It's not going to get better.
I love history.
And my favorite thing about your show is that the history is brilliant and I feel it's very well researched and you're both very knowledgeable, but it's funny.
And I'm a big believer in keeping two opposing ideas in your head at the same time.
You guys will talk about some of the grimmest things in the history of the world, like World War I, but there'll be sections where you can't stop laughing.
And I'm laughing with you.
And I love that because both things are true.
World War I might be the worst thing that ever happened to humanity.
It's absolutely terrible and a war that was fought for no reason.
And then I will find myself you two will get talking about the Kaiser, and what a ridiculous man the Kaiser was.
And I will be crying.
I'm laughing so hard along with you.
Is humor the way into this?
No, actually.
So the story is the way in.
Did you just disagree with me?
I did, yeah.
Let me explain where you are right now.
You're in America.
No.
Okay, go ahead.
You've actually got 250 years of back taxes to pay.
Oh, yes!
Come on, you knew that was coming.
I knew it was coming.
I think the story is the way in, always, and the characters, but the humor emerges naturally.
So we don't try to impose the humor on the story.
But you know you're doing the Kaiser, who's a ridiculous man who's coming up with all these mad schemes to invade places and whatnot and is basically smoldering with fury because he thinks his British relatives despise him.
And that's what drives him.
And you've got all these generals with gigantic mustaches, and they've all got emphysema.
And all of that, I mean, that's true to the history.
It's not us imposing it on it.
And you can blind yourself to that and say, no, history is terribly serious and very desiccated.
But the humor is part of the human condition.
I think that there's a case for seeing the whole sweep of human history as a very dark comedy. because history essentially is the record of people not getting what they want, people over-inflating their own sense of worth.
And so there is a kind of inherent strain of comedy that runs throughout almost every period of history that you look at.
And I guess that even the very darkest episodes.
It's a comedy in the sense that Dante wrote the Divine Comedy.
It's the sense that sometimes you have to laugh so that you don't weep.
Yeah.
I think, to me, reference one of my favorite British comedies of all time, Black Adder.
There's a sense of...
So much of the humor from Blackadder and also from the Python films was just bring out your dead.
Bring out your dead in Holy Grail, and so much of the comedy in Life of Brian.
The British are uniquely very good at doing this seeing the dark and the absurdly comical at the exact same moment and holding both molecules together as they bounce off each other.
Yeah, people are funny, right?
Yeah.
Human beings behave ridiculously.
Many aren't, by the way.
And I have footage to prove it.
But often the people who take themselves incredibly serious, seriously, are the funniest.
And history is.
You know, the great figures of history invariably take themselves very, very seriously.
Yes, yeah.
I mean, you have your obsessions.
You are obsessed with facial hair.
And you will... Is that unusual?
Who is it?
No, and what I love is you'll talk about again.
I'll go back to the World War I example, but this goes throughout your entire podcast.
Any subject you take up, if someone has absurd facial hair, you too start cackling.
And most of the generals you introduce Russian British French French, anyone from Austria, Hungary you are, you know Serbia, Croatia.
You're saying, oh my God, and this next one?
An insane, this beard is greater than the previous beards.
I mean, now you mention it, I'm thinking actually the Americans.
They have very poor moustache action in this, don't they?
Obviously, we've got a bit of a wait for the Americans to arrive.
Late for a world war.
They peaked too early, though, no?
The Civil War, they've got that.
Civil War, we had great beards.
And I mean, I'm not going to sit here. and listen to you run our beards down.
We are huge admirers of 19th century Civil War beer.
I mean, insane.
Our Secretary of War, Stanton, had an insane beard.
Several men were living in it.
Your current Secretary of State for War, which I gather is now what it's called.
He's banning facial hair.
Yes, yes.
Does he not know his history?
Pete Hegseth said I won't have, there'll be no beards, there'll be no individuation, there'll be no.
And he said we won't have any hippies.
Cut your hair, shave your beard.
And we know he's a true patriot because he wears an American flag tie.
That's right.
Which is what every true patriot does.
Yeah, of course.
And he went after anyone wearing beards and I had the same thought, which is, excuse me.
Yeah.
Some of our greatest generals had incredible beards back in the day.
They did.
And they did not affect their fighting ability at all.
And if you're Custer, very long hair.
Yes.
Yes.
Long golden locks.
They were thinning though, weren't they?
Yes.
He was trying to compensate for his loss of virility.
Yes, yes.
Do you think that because Custer was losing his hair, he felt I need to attack this village that's a hundred times larger than my fighting?
But also, I mean, imagine the surprise of the brave who scalped him.
Disappointment.
Huge.
Disappointment.
They called him long hair.
So here's long hair.
Oh my God.
Oh my God, he's losing it.
He looks like Larry David.
Yeah.
Yeah, he had.
Larry David should play Custer in that final battle.
And when 100,000 hostile natives come over the hill, he should frown and you hear, womp, womp, womp.
Because he loves the Civil War, doesn't he?
Yeah, he does.
There's the famous photo of him with his daughter.
Yes.
Looking at Gettysburg.
Yeah.
I'll be listening to you, and we're on Custer now, so this is a good example.
I'm listening to your long, multi-episodes about the, you know, who is this Custer?
What's happening?
How did this whole thing come about?
How do we get to this battle?
The pre-story, and beautifully told.
And then you're talking about one of the people who's fighting alongside Custer.
Underneath him, Ben Teen.
That's him, Ben Teen.
And you two...
You despise Benteen.
No, Benteen's a great man.
I thought you hated Benteen.
No, he's very like Dominic.
Oh, well, I hated him.
So by extension, I hate you.
So opinions on that may differ.
I was just sad.
I now hate Dominic because I'm not a fan of Benteen.
What about you?
What was it?
Well, I obviously respect him.
The line was.
I read it out on the podcast, the line from the book.
It said beneath his chubby-cheeked cordiality lurked a cold and sinister intelligence.
That's you.
Yeah, and I read that out to Tom, and Tom said, that's not you.
And then I was so offended by that I read it to my wife and she said you're literally describing yourself.
Right.
So the villain, one of the villains, or as history has often miscast him.
No, he's not a villain.
It's great, man.
Please.
I'm saying as history has miscast him, he's often been seen as the villain of the battle.
But you say, no, this makes terrific.
I like the cut of his jib.
I do like the cuts of his jib.
So initially he lets himself down a bit, doesn't he, by being difficult and not helping Custer.
But then at the end when they're trapped on the hill with Major Reno.
Major Reno who's in a massive funk.
Who's sobbing and has to be trussed up like a hog.
Like a hog.
You know, I will say I had sympathy for Reno.
And if anyone's lost at this point, we're talking about the Battle of Little Bighorn.
Everybody's lost.
And please, this is my podcast.
And these are the only two people left in the world that I really want to talk to.
And I'm taking this ship down right now.
But...
One of the reasons I sympathize with Reno is I think if I'm ever in a difficult situation, a life and death situation, I will lose my nerve and I will have to be trussed up like a hog by my friends to keep myself from hurting myself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is what you described.
You compared Reno to yourself.
Do you remember?
Yeah.
I said I would run away.
Yeah.
You said you compared him to yourself at our live shows.
So Tom has to be trussed up like a hog before our live shows because he's gibbering with nerves.
Whereas I, having behaved poorly all day... Yes, but your cool calculating intelligence kicks in.
Yes, yes, yes.
This is, I mean, so first of all, I think I'm more in the Tom camp.
I will be gibbering.
It's a word I love.
Were you gibbering before your shows, before your talk shows?
I gibber all day long.
I don't think you understand.
You were gibbering during them.
I speak in tongues.
I have whatever Irish disease we have where...
We speak mostly in Babel.
Okay.
That's me all day long.
Yeah.
And then they occasionally record it and we seem to be able to sell ads.
Okay.
That's what's happened.
Yeah.
I love the podcast.
I'm going to say my only problem is occasionally you two... And I understand why you're doing it.
You're very proudly British.
You will throw out the name of some minor member of parliament in the late 80s or early 90s and you'll both start cackling about Cecil Biddlebarter and you'll be giggling, and I will be driving my car and I will turn it into the nearest tree.
Killing myself.
I've been reincarnated many times.
From boredom.
No, just rage that you two are having so much fun about Cecil Beetlebarter.
And I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
So he will have very thick glasses.
He'll have a kind of silvery hair.
And he'll have dandruff.
Massive dandruff.
He'll have a pinstripe suit.
He'll look...
An utterly unmemorable figure.
But he will have been insanely brave during the Second World War and taken out three German tanks.
And taken the MC.
And it's the contrast between them.
And then he'll be caught in a flat.
Wearing stockings.
Wearing stockings, yeah.
With a black bin liner and an orange in his mouth.
Or something like that.
Okay, I have to ask how you two met because the chemistry between the two of you is perfection.
And that's a big magic of the show.
And I'm curious, how did these two guys come into each other's orbit?
We were thinking of lying about this.
Yeah, so actually on the way in Tabiat producer said you need to make up a new origin story because it's not very good.
I'm happy with a lie if it's a good one.
No, it's not a good one.
We haven't had time to think of one because we're not very imaginative.
Do you want me to think of one for you?
You're in combat together.
You're in Grenada, I'm guessing, right?
Grenada.
When the Americans invaded.
Yeah.
No, we're fighting the Americans.
Yeah, surely.
On behalf of the Commonwealth.
On behalf of the Commonwealth, yeah.
Okay.
Because you disgraced yourselves invading Grenada.
You let yourselves down invading Grenada.
How did we let ourselves down?
Because it's a British colony.
Yeah, it's a British colony.
You needed a little help.
Anyway, we didn't meet in combat.
I'm sorry.
I'm sick of it.
I mean, we've helped you out a few times, I believe.
Late.
Hey, we show up late.
Yes.
We showed up late in World War I. We showed up late in World War II.
But that's the way we are.
We like to show up late.
And I like to arrive late at a party because people notice me more.
It's my ego.
And I think that's what Americans love to do historically is show up when the tide has almost turned.
It's almost too late.
And then we supply you with tons of mediocre equipment, but lots of it.
Yeah.
Of course, the trouble of the World War I is we were both on the wrong side.
So we should have joined with the Germans.
To have a crack at the French.
You smash the French once and for all.
Now, let's talk about this, Dominic.
You are so through and through a British citizen.
You loathe the French and you're always going after them on the podcast.
Yeah.
I actually lived in France.
I speak French.
Listen, I'm very impressed with.
I love that you took the time to learn the language of the people you despise.
You could be passive aggressive to them in their own tongue.
Do you ever?
Did you grow up?
Is this just you playing a part, or is there real animosity there towards the French?
I think probably initially playing a part, but it's entered.
I've forgotten who I am and it's entered.
Yeah.
The mask has blended into your flesh.
Yes, yes.
Beautiful.
Tom, you like the French, though, don't you?
I do like the French.
You don't have any.
That whole period when Napoleon's trying to destroy the English islands, you're okay with that?
I like them because I think they're the coolest of enemies.
They are a very, very classy enemy to have.
And I think because we always beat them, that redounds to our credit.
So, I mean, I wouldn't in any way underestimate the French.
I mean for most of England's history, and indeed Britain's history.
They were much richer, much more powerful, much more sophisticated.
And so the pleasure of thrashing them becomes all the sweeter.
They do have those desserts.
Those desserts are fantastic.
Yes.
And I mean, show me, you have some great, I mean, your desserts are fine.
The French don't do a pudding though, do they?
They don't do a pudding.
Yeah, but I don't think they want to do a pudding.
They do a tart.
They're letting you have the pudding.
Because quite frankly, no one really wants a pudding.
No, no, you're wrong about that.
I love a pudding.
Yeah, you've got to have a pudding.
Okay.
I don't have to have a pudding.
And you may think this is a cul-de-sac we've gone down.
It is.
This is a dead end.
I say I'm going to go hard on this pudding thing.
I think you guys have disgraced yourself with your puddings.
Okay, wow.
And there we go.
This is punchy stuff.
It's unbelievable.
I mean, the French, of course, would agree with you.
Yes.
That's the one I jump in with the French on that one.
You guys, you have your obsessions, and I love that.
And you also have your heroes.
Dominic, I know for you, it might be Admiral Lord Nelson.
Is he your all-time favorite?
Who's your all-time favorite?
Because I want to get from both of you.
I think for both of us, Nelson.
Nelson.
Yeah.
Do you know I have a tendresse, to use a French word, for Richard Nixon.
I like Richard Nixon.
Yeah.
I find him very entertaining.
He's fascinating.
Well, my show here in the States began in September of 1993 and a reporter asked me who would your favorite comedy guest be?
Right.
And I said Richard Nixon because Richard Nixon was still alive.
He was the face of comedy for about a good 12 years in our country.
Right.
All comedy.
He comedians were obsessed with him.
He's very fun guy to have sport with.
And I mean, he obsessed every comedy writer for, you know, a huge chunk of modern American history.
So I wanted to talk to Richard Nixon.
And then he passed away.
I believe I started in September.
I think he died in maybe March.
And I thought, there goes my chance.
Do you know what AI?
They can bring back some kind of Nixon avatar sweating aggressively at you.
Nixon does appear on this podcast many times.
I morph into Nixon, even when he's not appropriate.
And it's a very cartoonish over the top.
We went to Disneyland and they've got an animatronic version.
They've got a Lincoln and Disney.
So I'd have thought that Nixon would be next on the list.
Nixon himself was an animatronic.
I mean, we love him as well.
We're very keen on inappropriate footwear.
People wearing the wrong shoes at the wrong time.
And Nixon was brilliant at that because he wore black shoes on the beach.
And we...
We like that in a president.
Yeah, I admire that in a man.
Okay, as a little tidbit, and I'm going to brag here for a moment one of Nixon's biographers who knew him is a woman named Monica Crowley who's written a lot about Nixon in winter, late in his career.
She told me that Nixon at the very end of his life was flipping around.
He was interested in television.
He liked to watch television.
And I premiere and he watched our first episode.
And then she said that he liked it and told her, I like it, it's madcap.
I'd say me.
It's madcap.
And I thought, I love that Nixon.
Now, I want Monica Crowley to write that down so that it's part of the official record.
But she told me that he watched it probably with his shoes on over his pajamas and watched it at 1230 at night here in America and said I like it.
It's madcap.
He would say it without smiling, wouldn't he?
No, he would.
There'd be no flicker of amusement on his face.
Basically, you had six months where you could have leveraged that.
I think yeah well, first of all, very quickly, critics turned on me and Nixon's advisors probably would have said well no, his advisors were famously terrible.
They would have said you should break into the DNC for no reason at all and pay the burglars out of your own pocket, and you should immediately go on Conan O'Brien's late night show.
So Admiral Lord Nelson for both of you.
Yeah, I think so.
You've got to throw in somebody ancient there, Tom, don't you?
No, because people in antiquity are terrifying and terrible.
I mean, they're astonishing.
I think almost without exception.
Yes.
Well, I think back then your average person was grabbing someone who walked by their house and thrusting them over a large sharpened stick, you know, and impaling them.
There's quite a lot of that going on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that the further back in time you go, the harder it is to relate to people, because they are so different.
I think of someone like Alexander or Julius Caesar.
They are terrifying because they move to kind of moral rhythms that are very, very strange and remote to us.
So I can't kind of love any of them or admire them.
So I think it has to be kind of more recent because then you can understand them.
Well, my all-time favorite is Lincoln.
Abraham Lincoln, because he's the one figure that is more impressive the more I learn about him.
The more I think he's.
I think he might be one of our greatest authors, also one of our greatest humanitarians and an incredible statesman and funny.
And what's your take on his wife?
Yeah.
Because we had a disagreement about this.
We got into trouble.
I got into trouble.
Where did you get into trouble?
Saying she was a monster.
I don't think that's right.
I think that's too simple.
I think it's too simple to say she's a monster.
I think she was unwell.
Listen and learn.
I'm literally never coming on this show again.
Well, you weren't coming again anyway.
You said that before we even started.
I'll do this once.
My people tell me I have to do it.
Right, exactly.
I didn't realize you were listening to that conversation.
Let's hear about why Mary Lincoln is not a monster, Dominic.
She is crucial, I think, to Lincoln's rise.
She comes from a connected family.
She's very ambitious on his behalf.
My wife, who's also a massive fan of both you gentlemen massive fan and regular listener.
She did a great podcast called Significant Others.
And she talked about Mary Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln and talked about the complexities of What's good about Mary Lincoln, but her podcast and the research was that she did a lot for him.
She was very ambitious on his behalf.
In some ways, she was a good partner.
She was highly flawed, but I think to dismiss her as a monster isn't fair.
Did she not, though, steal all the spoons in the warehouse when she left?
Who hasn't done that?
I've been to the White House three times.
Did you steal the spoons?
How many did you steal?
I stole a flat screen television.
I mean, spoons?
I don't need a fucking spoon.
Mary Lincoln didn't do that.
Who needs a spoon?
If you're going to go, go big, I said.
So, yeah.
Yeah, but she stole something like 6,000 spoons or whatever it was.
Oh, come on.
Get over it.
Honestly.
Honestly.
What did Margaret Thatcher take when she left power?
I do have a question.
I do have a question.
This is a serious question that has confused me somewhat over time.
I sometimes have a take on a British figure that's completely out of step with what British people think of that figure.
So like who?
Well, Margaret Thatcher's one, because I feel that you almost can't.
I've been in circles where you almost can't bring her up.
Oh, yeah.
And she has been canceled.
And I've seen books of great women in history and Margaret Thatcher isn't even in there.
And she's this highly significant person.
And I understand that there's complexities there and there are things that she did.
But interesting to me that she isn't held in more esteem.
Dominic has written a 7,000-page book on her.
Yeah.
I didn't know that.
He's absolutely the man to take this on.
Do you think, am I correct, that I've been around Brits and I've said what do you guys prefer, Brits?
What do you like?
I think with... Englishman.
Yeah, Englishman.
Officers and gentlemen.
Okay.
Admiral?
Yeah, that kind of thing.
Just sir.
Lord Commander.
Just sir is fine.
Yeah, okay, sir.
Lord Admiral.
Your Highnesses.
I have noticed that you have to have her as part of the conversation and it's as if she didn't exist, and that doesn't feel right to me.
Am I correct about that?
I think, kind of liberal opinion, for want of a better word, a better phrase still holds her in very low regard because she was a, you know, she was a right-of-center politician.
Yep uh, a lot of people suffered under in the thatcher government because of de-industrialization.
Yes um, she was a very, very strident and partisan politician.
You know, you were she, you were one of, or you were one of the opposition.
And she drew the battle lines very clearly.
So it's understandable why people hate her, right?
I completely get that.
I mean, I'm sure Tom would probably agree with me on this.
She's an incredibly impressive person.
So if you look at photographs of her government, she's often in the room with 40 men And she's the only woman.
And she's made her own way.
She's fought her way up the ladder.
She's incredibly well prepared, because she thinks she has to work harder than any man, because she thinks she'll be dismissed at any moment.
And she feels she has to become harder than hard to prove that she's not a soft and sensitive woman.
All of which maybe makes her quite unlikable.
I think she probably wouldn't have got on with us because she had very little sense of humor.
Yeah.
And she was harsh, you know, hard company, difficult company.
But she is, I mean, certainly compared with Britain's recent prime ministers.
So that I think, I think that there's a kind of kaleidoscopic quality to people's reputations in history.
And I think the fact that, how long was she?
10 years?
She was prime minister for 10 years.
11 years.
And basically, you know, we, current prime ministers last about a week.
Yeah.
They're like fruit flies.
They have the same life expectancy.
And same intellect.
Yeah.
They're so terrible.
But they're nourished on the blood of others.
They are so terrible that I think her reputation can only improve by comparison.
I mean, the comparison between her and Liz Truss, Keir Starmer.
I mean, she's not done that.
No one listening will ever have heard of any of them.
They just enter the front of Downing Street and they go out the back without breaking stride.
I'm also a... a big churchophile.
I really love Churchill.
And I know that I've talked to British people who, oh, well, you know, he behaved poorly here.
He behaved poorly there.
There's a lot of it that maybe doesn't age well.
And sometimes I am impatient.
I think oh, my God, you know, this was the perfect person at the perfect time, with the perfect wit and the perfect eloquence.
That alone should protect him.
Am I wrong?
He got one massive thing right.
Yes.
And I think essentially that cancels everything he got wrong.
Yeah.
Also, I mean, And when you say one massive thing right, just for anyone who's you know, people were trying to appease Hitler, appease Hitler, appease Hitler.
And he said enough of this.
So he's right about that.
But I think specifically, it's the moment when the Nazis are on the French coast.
There's a serious prospect that the British government may open negotiations with Hitler.
And had that happened, then the history of Europe and of the world would have been radically different.
That it doesn't happen is massively down to Churchill.
Because of one man who said no.
Right.
I mean, it's an amazing story about him addressing his MPs and saying to them if this Long Island story of ours is to end, let it end only when we are choking in our own blood on the ground.
Yeah.
And that kind of stirring stuff.
I mean, nobody says that outside movies.
He says that he galvanizes the English language, the English people, the British people.
I have a theory that again I'm just going to go with Brits, because I don't know what else to say that the British people are famously afraid of, or wary of, puffed up language, or you know, I know it's certainly true of the Celts.
The minute someone starts to say, everyone is going, oh, get over yourself.
That... all the rhetoric I love of Churchill's sometimes is slightly embarrassing.
Well, the thing is, he speaks like that from about the age of four.
Yeah.
And it makes him a very comical figure.
So what is it, the age of 10?
Yeah, I know, he's at school.
I love him at four, saying anyone who will not give that toy and put it back in my pram will choke on their own blood.
But the thing is, I mean at the age of 10 or something, when he's at school, he's writing essays about how he is going to save Britain from foreign invasion.
And he, in a sense, you know, his whole life has been preparation for 1940 when he stands alone.
He got loads wrong.
He made loads of terrible, terrible mistakes.
And some of his you know more intemperate statements don't stand up very well today to ask scrutiny.
But when you look at his life...
He had an amazing life.
Oh, my God.
He is Zelig.
You know the Woody Allen movie, Zelig, where he's in every pivotal moment in history?
South Africa when he escapes from a Burr prisoner war camp.
He's in Cuba when the Americans are fighting in Cuba.
He's fighting in India.
He's hit by a cab in New York City in the 1930s.
He's crazy.
He's everywhere.
This extraordinary life.
Plus...
He is such a likable personality.
He's so ebullient.
He's such fun.
He's a great laugh.
If he was sitting next to you at dinner, you wouldn't get a word in edgeways.
Oh, I would.
You don't know who you're messing with.
Hey, Winston!
Ooh, let this Irish idiot in here.
I... When I visited... I have my frequent stops when I'm in London.
Imperial War Museum, I always have to go.
I witnessed an argument.
This is in the late 80s.
I was at the Imperial War Museum and I witnessed... There's a...
There was a British half-track there and two old German men were saying this was not the best design.
And two British guys said, well, it was bloody well good enough, wasn't it?
And they got into it, and I thought... What was the accent that that British person had?
I say, old chap!
Dick Van Dyke taught me how to talk to you guys.
Blimey!
Hello, governor!
Um...
I did that to Hugh Laurie's face once and I think he struck me, but it's all a blur now.
We have an episode on Mary Poppins coming up.
Oh, really?
Yeah, we do.
Terrific.
Well, apologies.
He was taught his cockney accent by an Irishman who'd been appointed by Walt Disney.
It was the ultimate act of the IRA.
It's the sabotage.
He explains a lot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He has apologized many times.
I had him on the show and I asked him about that.
And he said, I'm sorry.
That's what I was taught.
It's terrible.
He was.
It wasn't his fault.
To his credit, he's Dick Van Dyke.
He's a national treasure for us.
And he apologized.
But what are we talking about?
I've drifted.
Josh Hill.
Josh Hill.
Imperial War Museum.
Oh, yes.
And then Chartwell.
I went to Chartwell, which I- That is great.
And I just looking at the Chartwells, the country estate that Churchill bought when he didn't have the money to buy it.
And he was making I mean to his credit earning his living writing articles and probably spending money he didn't have.
But he bought Chartwell.
And there are a few homes that tell you who the person is.
Most of them have been redone.
The person isn't really there.
My two favorites are Chartwell and...
Teddy Roosevelt's house at Sagamore Hill on Oyster Bay.
Never been there.
Oh, you have to go because Teddy Roosevelt's there.
They didn't touch it.
His wife kept it exactly the same.
When she passed, it became a museum.
Nothing's been changed.
It's filled with stuffed heads and bombast and hyperactivity.
They're quite similar, I think.
Yeah, they are.
They're very similar.
Do you know who T.R.'
's hero was?
Well, Kipling, who?
Oliver Cromwell.
Oh, that's Oliver Cromwell.
Yes.
His hair, one of my hair is actually kind of, sorry.
Not so much of the British.
I mean, the Irish.
I once, my grandmother lived with us growing up and she was, she had been born in 1890.
Mm-hmm.
And the movie Cromwell was on in her room.
Oh, yeah.
Richard Harris film.
Richard Harris.
And I'm crossing her room and the door is slightly ajar.
And just the flickering image, she's watching it.
And it's a scene where the British are under Cromwell or something's going on.
I can't remember, but it was something about the Irish.
And my grandmother's watching and she just said, the bastards.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you know, we grew up on these children's books called Lady Bird books.
And they were books about great lives.
So there was Oliver Cromwell was one of them.
And it has kind of famous summing up.
And it says, Oliver Cromwell, brackets, except in Ireland, was a kindly man.
Which...
Conan O'Brien, except for to his staff and friends, was a kindly man.
Yeah, which I think sums up perhaps.
What was that say from Cromwell?
He was robust in Ireland.
He was robust.
Robust, yeah.
Robust is a very useful word on the podcast.
He had sometimes pungent views.
Pungent and robust.
They carry a lot of weight.
You know, the larger to Google Earth out of this, all these little areas.
For a second, one of the things that sustains me And I know that you have a lot of young listeners, which I love, because the role that history plays for me in my life, my knowledge of history and my enthusiasm for it is it often reminds me that we've been here before.
And that the history of mankind is a lot of things constantly going wrong and good people in the mix trying to right the ship.
But I get a lot of satisfaction out of all the things that are happening today that can seem so dire.
And, of course, unlike anyone that you're talking about in your podcast, we're being bombarded with bad news constantly through this new technology.
A lot of young people just think, well, this is the end of the world.
And I try and remind them Things have been worse.
Oh, no.
But I keep telling them, do you think 1914 was great?
How about 1861 in the States?
I mean, even in our recent history, the 60s was a dreadful decade.
70s, 80s.
I mean, it's hard to locate a time when we all didn't think.
When I was at university, as you call it, when I was in college, we all thought Reagan is going to blow up the world.
And this is the end.
Late for the first two world wars.
Early for the third.
Yeah, exactly.
We all know.
Oh, there goes Moscow.
There goes well.
But I mean and I I'm just constantly reminded that we have we had a moment of optimism when the Berlin Wall fell, which quickly turned to cynicism.
And then things seem to have just gotten much worse in Russia.
And we see what's happening in the world.
And I think well, this is the way it's been.
It's always been this way.
So i would say a couple of things.
One is that um, people always behave badly, history keeps happening and people will continue doing bad things because human nature doesn't change.
And yet most people alive today live longer.
Healthier, you know more comfortable warm, you know warmer, as in, shielded from cold uh, lives with more opportunities, more cult, you know the broader cultural horizons, all of that kind of thing.
That's not to be complacent, but You'd rather be here than at any previous point in history.
And the other thing is dentistry, which is always mentioned.
And antibiotics.
My father was a microbiologist and studied antibiotics his entire life.
Never went to the dentist, though.
Face of just broken tombstones in his mouth.
Oh, British.
Like George Washington.
Like George Washington.
He walked around with other people's teeth in his mouth.
That's right.
Poor from Washington.
That's right.
We knew he was a bad man, but that was confirmed.
Had to eat.
You know what he ate because of his bad teeth?
Can I tell you?
Go on.
He would have tripe. tripe was all he would eat, which is cow's stomach mashed up and then boiled.
And this man, who might be the greatest American of all time, through his rotted jar, would suck tripe into his mouth.
That makes me feel so happy.
You know, the worst teeth.
Won't you forgive us?
Rameses the Great, the pharaoh, they found his mummy, and he'd lived to about 97.
And they inspected his jaw.
And because the sand, you know, it's Egypt, so the sand gets into the bread.
90-odd years of chewing on bread had worn down the teeth, had worn down the gums, had exposed the nerves.
He was Pharaoh.
He was one of the greatest figures of ancient history.
I mean, every minute would have been excruciating agony.
There was nothing that he could do about that.
So I just say that to cheer people up who may be depressed at doom scrolling.
Yeah, exactly.
If you're depressed about what's happening right now in global warming, remember there's not sand in your bread.
And there's been, the world has been convulsed by terrible examples of climate change before.
So the sixth century AD, possibly the worst year in human history.
There's a kind of great climactic event.
The world cools, the crops fail, there's plague, there's war, everything collapses.
And I again offer that as a reassurance that things may seem bad now, but honestly they have been so much worse.
Yeah.
And I think I go back to that all the time is there's also a.
This is not just a uniquely American thing, but it's very popular in our politics too.
Can't we return to that golden old time?
And as a, not a historian like you gentlemen, as an amateur, I always say, tell me when that was.
It never existed.
What is this golden time?
And you know they'll try and say things like well, you know, in the 1890s, you know the thing that's always recreated when someone opens an ice cream shop and people have arm garters and wax mustaches and people and I think no, that was no good.
Lynching.
Yeah.
No, no.
I mean, exactly.
It's, there is no golden past.
And I think that's one of the things that What sustains me these days is I listen to your podcast and you tell these great stories and I love the stories and I learn so much, but it informs how I live today.
It informs how I read the news.
It informs how I...
Take what's coming.
And I'm usually a little, I think, calmer.
And I work with a lot of young people who are convinced.
I remember, during COVID, someone who was waiting on me in a restaurant telling me she was very young.
She was about 20.
And she said, she's very sad.
And I said, why?
And she said, I'll never see a concert again.
I'll never see a live concert again because that's over now because of COVID.
And I said, no, no, no.
We were here in 1919.
We've been here a bunch of times before.
These happen and they go away and we move on.
You're going to see so many concerts and so many of them are going to be terrible.
You'll be dreaming of lockdown.
Yeah, yeah.
I have to ask you I have not listened to your Rolling Stone podcasts, your Satanic Majesties podcasts.
Beatles or Stones?
I just have to ask.
For me, Beatles 100%.
Yes.
Stones.
Okay.
Well, I have to tell you, Dominic, you're wrong.
You're wrong.
Wrong about, wrong about.
Yeah, Mary Lincoln.
Mary Lincoln.
And wrong about the Stones.
Look, I love them, an amazing three-chord band, but.
You're not a bit bored of the Beatles?
No.
A bit ubiquitous?
It's impossible.
It's impossible.
And look, is it their fault that their stuff is, you're penalizing them for their popularity?
Yeah, being too good.
Incredible.
Well, wrong again.
And I should tell you, Mary Lincoln played with the Stones for a while.
Yeah.
Uh, so you should really hit the stones.
Yeah.
She was one of Peter, Paul and Mary, right?
Yeah.
She was with people in there.
Yes.
Then she left, replaced Bill Wyman for a little while as bass player.
And then Mick got jealous.
She was getting all the attention.
Um, yeah, that was, uh, I have to ask you on a personal note, this thing is blown up.
You started as a lark.
You were having fun.
Yeah.
And now it's all this.
Yeah.
Mental.
Are you enjoying, I mean, Tom Hanks is a huge fan.
We'll come on the podcast.
I've not been invited.
Uh, Listen, I understand my place in the hierarchy.
I have a small cameo in Saving Private Ryan.
I'm shot.
I'm the ninth guy to be shot just coming right off the boat.
What would you like to talk about?
We'd pick a topic.
You could pick a topic with me, and I would come to London.
Where do you do it?
Do you do it in London?
No, we can do it everywhere.
You don't have to move.
No, no, no.
I want to be there in person.
Are you together when you do that?
No.
We hate each other.
No, God, that would be terrible.
Yeah.
No, never.
This is the first time we've been together for about four years.
Okay.
It's very unpleasant.
Well, I'd like to be with one of you live.
So I would like to be at one of your, I'm imagining a grand estate.
And I would like to be with one of you in person.
And I would like to make the other jealous.
Maybe we could talk about why Mary Lincoln was a goodie or why the Beatles are brilliant.
I could do the Beatles in a second.
Let's do the Beatles.
I mean, I would happily join you guys anytime.
This has been a thrill for me.
And I got to talk about about 170th of the things that I would love to talk to you about.
But so it goes.
We'll leave that for another time.
If you're not listening to The Rest is History with Tom and Dominic, you're a fool.
And you know what?
You don't even have to be a history buff.
They're stories, and they're the best stories that ever were.
And they're told by two great storytellers.
And so the rest is history.
Please give it a listen.
And thank you to both very much for being here.
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you.
We have something very important to discuss right now.
Is it important?
It's very important.
Okay.
And if you'd even question me, it's abhorrent to me.
Recently, we had a discussion about singing popular songs on the podcast.
Is that a copyright infringement?
Do we have to then pay off these artists?
Or are we allowed to sing a popular ditty?
Do we have the freedom to do that?
Mm-hmm.
And we realized there's one person we need to talk to.
Yep.
He is one of the loyal troops here in the Team Cocoa Army.
He's a magnificent lawyer, despite never having practiced law.
Yeah.
Or graduated from law school.
True.
He's the Jose Arroyo of lawyers.
True.
But no one pretends to be a lawyer better than David Melmed.
And David, thank you very much for being here.
And I also want to say people really like David Melmed.
Yeah.
I mean, everyone's- We're just talking about that.
We're all big fans.
You know, I'm a controversial figure here in the building, but you are universally very well-liked.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Appreciate that.
And I thank you.
You do terrific work for us in your capacity as a fake lawyer.
So, David-
Let's get into it.
The question is, can I sing songs on the podcast?
Can Sona sing songs on the podcast?
And Matt Gourley, is he allowed to break out into a tune every now and then?
What's the answer?
I'm going to give you a lawyer answer to that.
Okay.
The answer is maybe.
The answer is maybe.
Maybe.
You're rotating in your chair a lot nervously.
Yes, I am.
I don't really want to know.
Exactly.
I got engrossed.
We could actually use that as an example right there.
Okay, great.
That's a perfect example.
This is timely, too.
Yes, that is very timely.
What song was that?
Because the way you were singing it was just awful.
What song was it?
That's always the song, Live Forever.
Oh, okay, got it.
Terrific.
So that's a perfect example right there.
Thank you, Carly.
Okay.
I think there's a way to approach these.
I think music is probably one of the most controversial sort of topics in all of clearance, right?
I think music particularly with you Conan, your love of music and sort of the idea of music now in podcasts has become a hot, certainly topic within the legal community.
Yeah.
So now that we have an example, I think the first thing- If you don't get more interesting faster.
I'm going to kill you.
Okay.
It's that interesting.
Okay.
I mean, it's that simple.
You have to.
Look at all these notes.
I love it.
I mean, look at this.
This is my notes.
You're not talking to the Supreme Court.
Yes, I am.
It's just us.
Yes, I am.
He is the most professional person in this room right now.
I know, but that was just dreadful.
I know.
What?
He let the man talk.
I think.
I did.
And it was awful.
Yes.
It was the worst thing that ever happened to me.
I'm sorry, David, continue.
And in no way, in no way, in no way feel constrained by what I've said or intimidated.
I'm not.
As your employer, continue doing that awful thing you were just doing.
Exactly.
This is OK.
So there's a there's a step approach to that.
I think the first thing we ask is what is the intended use of what you are trying to do?
And I think why I ask that is a lot of times I hear samples and they're really terrible.
I think when I actually ask the person, what do you want to use it for?
They hear themselves say it and say, you know what?
We're good.
We're actually not going to use that.
Once we get to step two, say, you know what?
We want to do that.
Then we get to where do you want to use it?
Where do you want to distribute it?
And so in that case, just I'm putting you on the spot, Corley.
Where would you want to use that within...
Well, I think we're talking about this podcast.
So this is, this is the.
I think what we're all talking about is the same thing, which is okay.
We're having that podcast and we're talking and someone brings up Robert Palmer and Sona says wait, which one is he?
Cause she's younger.
And I go, he's so fine.
There's no telling where the money went.
And, What do you do now?
It comes across your desk.
Yes, it does.
I don't think you have a desk.
I do not.
I sit in the corner.
He does sit in the corner.
I sit in the corner.
You do sit in the corner.
I do sit in the corner, yes.
Well, when you get a real law degree, you'll get a real desk.
Thank you.
But David, that's the example.
That's a great example.
They come to you and they say Conan O'Brien, joined in by Matt Gourley, Robert Palmisong.
We just did it.
Do you cut it out or do you let us do it?
I say, again, maybe.
I would say, let's try to get permission to do that.
I think that is the goal here is to say, do we need permission to do that?
So that again is a difficult thing, because you could say look, we need to release this episode next week.
How are we supposed to go to the record label?
Yeah, Robert Palmer's gone.
He has tragically passed.
Yes, he has.
And he has an estate that's very protective of his musical work.
And then does someone get them a sample of us singing it and they listen to it?
We actually would provide the sample because you're recording this, right?
We're recording this and we bring it to that.
This is awful.
Again, I mean, this whole segment is a treatment.
I think it's fantastic.
I think this is very helpful.
I agree.
I like it.
I think this is fantastic.
So we bring that sample to the record label and say, hey look, Conan O'Brien, Matt Gourley, Sona would love to use this sample.
I'm OK.
You can leave me out of it.
She is tone deaf.
Yeah, you don't have to lump me in on the Robert Palmer one.
Yes.
Now, here's my question.
Would you say this promotes Robert Palmer's discography?
Or disparages his entire thing?
No, it doesn't.
It makes you think, oh, I did love that song.
I don't love the way they're doing it, but I do love that song.
And I'd like to go out and immediately on Spotify get the complete Robert Palmer collection.
You would certainly use that argument in a negotiation for a fee, right?
This is ridiculous.
I'm just, you know, the thing is, I'm not a musician who's playing the song.
I'm just saying, she's so fine.
There's no telling where the money went.
And then suddenly a highly paid pseudo lawyer who's suspiciously tan all the time.
You are...
I'll come in in the middle of winter and you've got the deepest bronze tan.
Do you use a tanning light?
I do not.
And you asked me that.
No, it's just natural.
He's a handsome guy.
You are incredibly handsome.
Thank you.
Well, you asked me that two years ago.
Yeah, I know.
It's the last time we spoke.
That is true.
Until today.
Conan, you came to my corner and you said, do you tan?
Do you tan?
I would love that tan.
And I said, I don't.
I actually get, I get outside.
I have a, you know, glowing.
You have an incredible glow.
Thank you.
What do you attribute that to?
Is it your lineage?
Are you pregnant?
How is this pertinent to this?
Can we do this?
Okay.
We're getting to it in a second.
This is important.
Go ahead.
What was your question?
Sorry.
But David, explain.
Explain this golden hue you have.
I think genetics.
I have parents in their 80s that look like they're in their 60s.
So that's the first.
But what is your genetic makeup?
I know that's probably an incorrect question to ask these days.
What are your genetics?
I would say there is probably a sort of Middle Eastern, you know, beautiful skin.
Absolutely gorgeous.
But you're forgetting that he has these beautiful eyes, too.
Also, can I say something else?
This is great.
You have salt and pepper hair, which is to die for.
I mean, I'm walking around with this clown dessert on my head and I look at you.
And I'm like, he may not be a real lawyer.
He may be the only thing we could afford.
Yes.
But God, I'd do him in a Mississippi second.
What?
Coy is your lawyer.
Thank you.
He is your lawyer.
Yeah, okay.
All I'm saying is you can't ask about genetics and you can't say I want to do you to the lawyer.
Well, we are actually out of time.
I'm glad we covered all the legal questions to the music.
I'm just going to say one thing.
He's so fine.
Listen.
So back to the other, the initial point of this whole thing, which is you're very good looking.
Thank you.
Wait, that wasn't it.
Back to the real point, David, which is...
You're saying that any time we hum any ditty, you have to get on the phone and try to buy the rights from some monsters.
Can I add?
Last, Conan, you argued that the worse you hummed it, the more rights we would have, right?
Like if you were off with the melody or the tone, then we would be able to use it.
I would say, for example, famously litigious Led Zeppelin.
No one gets to do Led Zeppelin stuff.
But...
If I sing it and it's wrong, but everyone knows what I'm doing, do we still have to pay?
You could.
You could.
You'd have to get the lyrics and the melody wrong, though, right?
Oh, I could do the whole thing.
Now, there's a lady who knows.
Sure.
That's it.
Those speakers are bows.
Oh, boy.
And she's trying.
Staircase.
To Nirvana.
Nirvana.
Now, would I have to pay for that?
No way.
Well, I wouldn't say no way.
Why?
You'd say maybe.
I would say maybe.
And I'll tell you why.
I'll tell you why.
If you were in... If you were led... No.
I'll tell you why.
You ask the questions that you don't want to hear the answer.
I don't think you want to hear what the answer... Go ahead.
In the most conservative way...
Yes.
Now, there are different exceptions.
For example, I think the use, the fair use word, de minimis use, is used a ton.
But you've already committed the copyright act, right?
He loves the word de minimis.
It's just a little bit of use that a court would never say.
You know, we're not going to litigate this.
Go ahead and use it.
Conan O'Brien, he can do two, three seconds of that song.
We're not going to even go there.
De minimis.
Why does Jeff love de minimis?
I haven't heard de minimis since the Latin teacher saw me without my pants on.
That's what he said.
That's what he said.
That's exactly what Jeff said.
Pretty good, huh, Sona?
Look at her.
Look at her.
Look at her.
That is what he said.
It's not the Maximus.
A quick question.
Should we do a two-parter and continue talking?
Yes, we should do a two-parter.
Because we're out of time.
Okay, we are sitting here with our.
He says he's a lawyer.
We've seen no paperwork.
David Melmed, impossibly good-looking and beloved, here on staff.
Very sweet, thank you.
Stay tuned for part two.
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian, and Matt Gourley.
Produced by me, Matt Gourley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao.
Theme song by The White Stripes.
Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.
Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair.
And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.
Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.
Additional production support by Mars Melnick.
Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn.
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