This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself, He Young.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yu Xun in the studio.
Coming up, in the rush of modern life, we all take to the same clock.
But what if time isn't the issue?
What if the way we feel about our time is the true measure of our well being?
Let's explore the balance between time affluent versus time poor, and is your screen time taking over?
What if touching grass could be the reset button you need?
Gen Z's cheeky words have turned into a fresh take on digital detoxing.
Could digital wellbeing apps be the future of balancing our online and offline worlds?
Our podcast listeners can find us at roundtable china on apple podcast got a question That's keeping you curious from social issues to tech and everything in between Let us take a stab at it email us at roundtable podcast at q q .com Emails are fine, but voice memos are always a tad better now.
Let's switch gears For some the clock ticks with urgency each second slipping away for others time flows at its own pace offering moments of calm and creativity yet we all share the same 24 hours a day.
So why do we feel so differently about the time we have?
Enter the concepts of time affluent versus time poor.
So what do these terms mean?
Yeah, time poor is that feeling of being constantly short on time.
You have too much to do, too many things on your list but there's that feeling that there aren't enough minutes in the day to do all of those things.
I'm sure many parents would be familiar with what I'm talking about now.
On the other hand, time rich or time affluent, it's the subjective feeling that you do indeed have sufficient time to complete all of the tasks that you need to do in In addition to pursuing some leisure or some other meaningful activities that bring joy to your life So basically it's not about the time that you are having It's the idea that you're treating the time that you have. You'll notice that when I describe time poor I said that Feeling of being constantly short on time.
And when I talked about time affluence I said that subjective feeling So that's what it is.
It's that perception that you have. There's a psychiatrist. Her name is Gabriela Rosen Kellerman, and she put it like this.
You can have two people who have exactly the same schedule and exactly the same responsibilities, but one of those people is time affluent and one of those people is time poor, meaning it's all about your perception of how you feel about the time that you have. And also people have different responsibilities outside of work as well, and that's going to contribute to how much time they have or energy they have to devote to whether we're talking about work or otherwise.
Yeah, this is where time becomes a really interesting part of this.
So in 2021, there was a team from University of Pennsylvania and University of California, Los Angeles.
These are social scientists that conducted this study.
and what they found was that people who had two hours or less of free time per day had lower levels of happiness.
So two hours or less in one particular day.
But they also found that people who had more than five hours of time per day to themselves also showed decreased levels of happiness.
One of the researchers noted that between two and five hours the relationship was quite flat, so that's the window.
There was very little difference in happiness between having two hours of free time a day, or three hours, or four hours, or five hours of time.
So, what that is suggesting is that it's not so much about the time that you have, but the more important question is, how are you spending the time that you have?
I found that to be quite fascinating.
Under two hours, not happy, over five hours, not happy.
That's too much time.
For people. That's always the key.
But between two hours of free time, three hours of free time, four hours of free time, that window, it's just the same level of happiness.
So again, that's why I said, it's not the time that you have, it's how you use it.
Yeah. And I bet for maybe the parents and maybe successful people like Elon Musk, the thought of having two to five hours of just free time, that sounds like a major luxury.
Yeah. What else did they learn from the study?
So they brought up an interesting point.
Of course, being time affluent is better for your overall wellbeing, while being time poor is associated with things like worse physical health and productivity, but the feeling of control, and that makes sense, right?
You know, the less time you have, then it starts to affect your mental well -being, your physical well -being, things like that.
But the feeling of control that people who perceive themselves as being time affluent, that feeling that you actually do have the time can really promote your happiness.
And they also found that prioritizing time over money makes people happier too.
and they found that being time affluent makes people more social, it makes you nicer to other people, and it also makes you kinder to the planet.
And people who are in a rush are less likely to help other people or to be kind.
So in other words, if you have the perception that you do have enough time in your schedule to take care of your responsibilities, but also take care of yourself a little bit, there's that snowball effect you'll be nicer to other people you'll be nicer to the planet I found that to be quite fascinating actually.
Having more free time helps you be the kind of person that you hope to be I guess.
yeah I think it makes sense you know when you are feeling that you are like time affluent you may be more relaxed to a lot of things and then you can stay calm you can think straight, that's why, I think this may be, like, related to personality, since we're saying it's all about your perception, right, because it involves, like, our perspective on things, and it's similar to, I would say, half -empty, half -full view, kind of view, you know, those who feel like the same bottle of water, and some people will think it is half -full, some people will think it's half -empty, those who feel they have,
like, ample time are happier because they believe they have more time to complete tasks and enjoy their lives and also maybe have time to help others and that's why they're feeling they're being more kind to people.
Can I ask a question here?
So to become time affluent in that particular context that you just gave then basically you're suggesting people let's say to maybe go to work 20 minutes earlier than 20 minutes later, is it?
And then because you have time to pay attention to be kind to people, or not to rush around too much and be so stressed out, and therefore you're nicer, and so leaving 20 minutes earlier, that makes you time affluent?
Well, if it changes your perception, it does.
Let's think of an example.
Let's say that you woke up 20 minutes late.
So, you know that that panic feeling when you wake up late you jump out of bed and jump in the shower and then you rush out the door and you rush on to the subway and you rush into the office.
I'm sure that's happened to everybody, right?
But think about that scenario.
In that scenario where you're in a rush from the second that you wake up in the morning.
right and you get that stress from the second you wake up and it followed that stress follows you all the way to the office so in that scenario how likely are you to be kind to a stranger on the subway like how likely are you to smile at the person who sells you a small breakfast thing from some street food or something probably not right but you didn't save any time either did you not Not really, because after you've woken up late, you're still going to be late, right?
So then it's just all about your perception and we allow that stress.
You know, time is such a fascinating thing because it's a construct, isn't it?
But when you allow yourself to have the pressure of time, then it affects how you treat yourself, how you think, and how you treat other people.
And speaking of this, I realized that, you know, It really comes down to our own perspective because as Hyeon said, maybe if you just get up earlier, 20 minutes, but that's not in that case or that's not how it works precisely I would say.
My example is that when people around me become very anxious and show negative emotions because they feel pressed for time, then I will try to use a different attitude.
But primarily, I felt that I was also time -poor because I tend to get up earlier to arrive earlier to make myself calm down because I will have anxiety if I'm being late.
But in that case, when people around me are feeling anxious, I will get to a mindset of telling them not to rush, to stay calm and that there is actually plenty of time.
and then I would tell them we have enough time to get everything done, et cetera, like this, because in such kind of situation, if I also got anxious, it will only make things even more chaotic.
Yeah but to answer your question Hyeon, would waking up earlier make you time affluent?
Well in a way. Because you've created 20 more minutes for yourself.
Right, so you've created 20 minutes of your schedule that didn't exist before.
So, that's more free time for you on your schedule.
So that would definitely help out.
But I also want to say, you know, we're speaking in perfect terms here, right?
It's, this is not easy for everyone to do.
Even creating 15 more minutes in the day when you have to wake up and make your kids breakfast and get them ready and get them out to school and then, you know, there's so many other things, taking care of the home, taking care of your work, whatever that might happen to be.
So this is just a very broad look at the situation that these researchers have done.
Yeah. And a lot of times, actually, there isn't really much allowance for you to create more time, really, like the waking up early thing.
So what else can we do to shift the balance, our perception of time?
Well, I'll tell you what some of the experts had to say.
So this is tip number one.
outsourcing your most dreaded or time consuming tasks, even just some of the time, that might just be once a week, it can go a long way in helping make you feel happier.
Now, that might require some extra discretionary income.
For example, buying things like pre peeled or chopped vegetables would be an example, and you think why is that an example?
Well, if you spend when you're making dinner if you have to make a dinner every day and you're spending time peeling and chopping Vegetables.
Well, there's 10 to 15 to 20 minutes Right, but if you can spend a little more money and buy the pre -chopped ones.
Well, you've just saved yourself 15 minutes So that that's the point is that it might take a little extra money But you can look for opportunities there on how to create some extra time for yourself.
See immediately I see that is not for everyone no it's not for everyone like I said that that requires a little bit of discretionary income yeah and actually you know the outsourcing makes me think of you know paying people to babysit hiring extra help etc and that is a luxury for only selected families 100 true but maybe those people are within your family already and you just don't ask for that kind of help maybe Well, in China, often the grandparents step in to help, but also will not get into it.
It's a huge discussion about how should grandparents be compensated.
In our traditional culture, maybe it's through you helping out when they get old.
But in today's fast -changing modern Chinese society, a lot of these concepts are evolving and shifting as well.
And no wonder there is a discussion.
And sometimes it's not always a peaceful discussion.
Sure sure yeah again that's not the easiest thing to accomplish maybe maybe this one this is uh expert tip number two.
I think this is something that we can all do no matter your situation what they say is make good use of the time that you do have. Now in a perfect world that's a long interrupted stretch of time maybe 45 minutes to an hour but in reality that might just be a few minutes here and a few minutes there between your tasks.
There's an author, her name is Bridget Schult, and she calls it time confetti.
So what's an example of time confetti?
Well maybe you have a meeting, and your meeting is scheduled from 3 p .m. to 4 p .m. but on that day your meeting happens to finish at 3 .50 p .m. Well you just got 10 extra minutes of time.
Now what do people typically do in that if they have that.
Maybe they'll doom scroll on their phone, right?
They'll just, they won't acknowledge the fact that they have 10 minutes of extra time so therefore they won't appreciate it, so it disappears.
It's not time confetti anymore.
It's just time lost down a hole.
So the author's recommendation there is that when those minutes in your day do happen to pop up, really take the time, And whew, OK, let's reset a little bit.
OK, what's going on?
Let me just enjoy this five or 10 minutes.
Again, not the easiest thing to do, but I think the point here is being mindful when you get some extra time.
That's an interesting point and an important point.
Because for most people, like, just take those five minutes when you're waiting in the doctor's office or when you're waiting on the subway platform.
What do people do? They pull out their smartphones, and then the smartphone enables us to do, it feels almost like anything, but you know, And also nothing at the same time.
At the same time, and actually in fact, it's made us more anxious.
So, you know, and also sometimes I feel we're, we're having anxiety that we feel we want to use these five minutes of time so well, and we pull out our phones.
And then that has actually given us more anxiety than actually, you know, the smart way is being mindful and better use that five minutes.
But how do you do that?
That's maybe one of the million dollar questions in modern day society.
Yeah, here's expert tip number three.
This is a really good one.
Now, this might seem counterintuitive actually because we're so short on time.
But the tip is give your time to others that you love.
And the reason they say that giving away your time can help you feel like you have more time is because of the perception.
There was a study in 2012 that said helping another person has a way of expanding your perception of time.
Why? Because helping someone makes you feel effective and useful, and when you feel like your time is well spent, then you perceive it as having more of it.
So you could ask a loved one, what can I do for you today?
Is there anything I can do to make your day a little bit better?
And according to that study, the effect that you'll feel from that is when you give away your time, you don't feel like you're wasting it, you feel like you're effectively using it and therefore you feel like you have more of it.
Doesn't seem to make sense, but it's kind of a nice result.
Yeah, this one seems more from a psychological perspective because previous two are quite handy and practical.
But what I was thinking is that this kind of issue, I would say is more of a psychological perspective.
So what I was thinking was you need to try to understand yourself of being or having this kind of perspective or perception towards time to consider your maybe priorities, think about the consequences of the situation and then sometimes, Because I was thinking having certain principles or a sense of urgency isn't that bad.
It makes you get up earlier, like 20 minutes, right?
And it can make you maybe appear to be polite, organized, and also allow you to handle things more calmly afterwards.
So, of course, with all of these practical tips, you can do that, and also, maybe from the bottom of your heart, you need to change it psychologically.
Yeah, and back to the point that you made before about the psychological perception and about what the psychiatrist said two people can have identical schedules and one person can feel time affluent and the other person can feel time poor.
It's like if a person has a family with three children and one person says I never have time.
I don't have any time.
I can't do this. I can't do that.
The other person might say yeah I'm very busy with my children and my family but I do have 15 minutes I can squeeze in a phone call here.
Just that difference in how you react to it, right?
I guess that's what they're trying to say through this.
So time management skills?
To try to give yourself a few more minutes here and there throughout the day, and then when you get it, just try to appreciate it.
Time is such a really fascinating thing because it's the common denominator that every single person on the planet has, right?
We all have different schedules.
We all have to adapt.
We all have to work with it in different ways But how we feel about the time that we have each moment of the day each minute them on the clock Can really help us feel better if we can kind of get our headspace to a place where we appreciate the time that we do have yeah Coming up next ever feel like you're drowning in digital noise Maybe it's time to touch grass Literally, could an app that tells you to touch grass be the key to a healthier digital life.
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You're listening to Roundtable with myself, He Yang.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yu Xun in the studio.
We've discussed how our perception of time can either enrich or drain us, but in a world where screens seem to consume our every minute, perhaps the key to time affluence lies not in more hours, but in a little less screen time.
Now comes the Touchgrass app, the newest solution for a digital detox.
In an era where screen time is reaching alarming levels, Gen Z's cheeky advice to Touchgrass has turned from a joke into a potential revolutionary shift. So, we've talked about many times about how the rising screen time concerns everybody.
What's your take on Gen Z starting this touch grass movement, maybe, online?
There was a report from Deloitte in 2024 that talked about the fact that 50 % of American adults engage in excessive screen time.
That's defined, by the way, as more than seven hours per day.
And 30 % reached this threshold purely through recreational activities and not work -related tasks.
Social media platforms, of course, we know contribute significantly to that trend.
And it's fostered this really bad, compulsive doom scrolling habit and detachment from the physical world.
Those numbers are from the United States.
I'm guessing that if you looked at numbers from Korea or Canada or England or wherever in the world Maybe here in China too, you might find similar, similar statistics.
In China, we've got the similar situation I would say a China internet audio visual development research report shows that the number of short video users in China has also reached more than 1 billion and mostly their also average daily usage time per user for short video apps is 156 minutes So yeah, people are spending a lot of time on these kind of apps.
Yeah So as a result, there's a british app creator by the name of Rick Kentish who created an app called touch Grass and touch grass is an application You can download onto your phone that blocks access to at least two other apps that you've chosen Until you meet a simple requirement you have to go outside.
You have to take a photo of yourself literally touching grass.
When you do that, the app verifies the image and then it unlocks the blocked applications and then you can continue to use those applications.
But until you go outside and literally touch grass, send in that photo application, this app will block your other apps for you.
What do you think? I would say it's mainly just, you know, about giving yourself a small way or a smart trick to actually control your own behavior because you can get a bypass anyway through these apps, this is your smartphone, you can take the whole control of your smartphone and apps.
So it is like a good kind of a willing, but still, it's about ourselves.
What do you think Huya?
Isn't it kind of like fighting fire with fire using digital apps to promote a digital detox?
Yeah, exactly. It's kind of an interesting paradox.
I don't think this is for me Because I'm not such a navid user, I've been living on social media for what, is it almost two decades, everybody?
I think I'm pretty shrewd by now, I know I'll need to sort of manage my time, portion my time, and I think in my mind, there's like a, yeah, touch grass alarm already.
Yeah, this is like a digital nudge, right?
To change your behavior a little bit.
So if you have a healthy relationship with social media or just with your screen time.
You don't need something like this.
But if you have the opinion, oh, I actually can't control this.
I'm addicted to my screen, then an app like this might be something that could benefit your life because it might change your behavior, right?
So in the beginning you might think, okay, I guess it's just this annoying thing.
Like ugh, I have to go outside.
Okay, fine, no, this was my decision.
But then slowly over time, and you might start to look at your screen a little bit less.
That's what the end goal would be, I guess.
In an age of endless digital distractions, the need to step away has never been more pressing.
Less screen time, more real time, it's a balance we all need to find.
And that brings us to the end of today's show.
Thank you so much, Steve Hatherly and Yu Xun for joining the discussion.
Thank you for tuning in.
You can find us on Apple podcast at Roundtable China.
I'm Haiyan, we'll see you next time!
