Hi, welcome back to Eat Your Crust podcast. I'm Krystal.
I'm Jisoo. I'm Yan.
So welcome back, Yan.
You might recognize her voice from past episodes that we've done and I think the most recent one was episode 156 modeling and photo shoots.
So go check that out if you want to hear about yin's experience being a model and doing photo shoots in the community today, we have on yang for a very interesting topic which is the Asian American identity as Big of a topic as this is.
I feel like there have been Various ways that Asian American identities have been represented whether it's through specific celebrity archetypes or even those mass videos where people would actually go in and dissect these micro categories.
I also want to say before we dive into this topic, this is obviously a topic that has been heavily discussed outside of even just our podcast, and it's a complex one.
It's not easy to really draw lines when we talk about the Asian American identity, especially since there's so many different communities and groups within the big community of Asian -American.
So just want to put it out there that we're going to be discussing our personal thoughts, our personal viewpoints and our feelings, and we are imperfect people.
So just know that before we dive into this episode.
Let's start this off by talking about the evolution of the Asian identity.
How do you think this way of representing us or identifying has evolved over the years?
First of all, go Asians.
Yeah, and I think in terms of mainstream media representation, there's like a difference between Asian representation and then Asian American representation, right?
So in terms of Asian American, I feel like the main representation, we had my same representation too much. The main rep we had was like a non mainstream like alternative media channels, like YouTube.
Right? So there are a lot of YouTube creators like Jimmy Coco Puffs like Mychon class I'm trying to give some more niche examples other than like Nika Higa and Kef Jamba along for productions, right?
Yeah, that shit was fire.
Nowadays. We have a lot more mainstream representation, right?
We got Disney bro shout out Shang Chi Oh my god We're on the map.
We got uh squid games squid seems fire.
Wait, that's still true.
That's asian. Again but a lot of Americans watched it.
Yeah, so there's levels to it, but it's definitely a lot more visibility now.
It's a good time. Songs are up.
I will say with how Asians are sometimes represented in TV, it makes me laugh a little bit, so I think it's gotten a lot better now, but occasionally there'll be times where I'm watching like a mainstream American TV show and there's an Asian character, my first instinct is always like, oh yeah, there's an Asian person.
And then my second instinct is like, okay, they are trying to adhere to that Asians represent x percent of the community statistic too much. There's only one Asian allowed. And that's it, because that's what the quota is.
So I think it's been getting better.
But occasionally, I'm just like, oh, that's the token Asian character.
The issue is that Asians actually move in packs and so they need to have like five of them.
Wait, that's looking true.
Yeah, to be realistic, it should be like that.
Have you guys heard of the movie Interior Chinatown that's coming out soon?
It was like originally booked first. Yeah.
Yeah. I think it actually talks about a lot of stereotypes like that and it's super meta so I'm really excited for that.
Coming out. Just wanted to plug it, you should check it out.
Actually um I also wanted to mention, I do feel like in the 90's and the 2000's I do feel like Asian American representation was almost better in some ways.
Because like you said, now it's sort of a token minority they're trying to make sure they hit that market, right and appeal to the market, but back then it was very much, I don't see color, which is problematic in its own way right that's very problematic, but because of that, they would just sort of casually have Asian American actors and characters and they wouldn't make it a moment, right.
I was watching like independence day on the 4th of July this year.
And they just had an Asian guy in like the first five minutes and it was just casual you like part of the team.
And I was like, Whoa, actually, like the way we even do representation, did we go backwards?
I don't know. It's changed, it's both a lot.
That's interesting because I feel like sometimes watching older movies can be kind of a jump scare on like, oh, wow, we've come a long way.
Because I recently watched Fast and Furious, the second one Tokyo Drift. Bits and that.
I was just like, bro, how did this get past multiple editors, multiple publishing people, People actually had to sign off on this.
Some of the accents or other elements I felt like was kind of not something that we would consider appropriate now.
But I think what we were talking about earlier, sometimes I'll watch a TV show and the token Asian character is the doctor or something.
And I'm just like dude, why are we still doing this?
Dude, the biggest pioneer of Asian representation was definitely Brenda Song, London Tipton.
She broke like all the stereotypes too.
Yo, Wendy Wu. Oh, coming, let's go.
At least nowadays in movies, they cast the right ethnicity for the acting role.
It used to be like, this guy is kind of East Asian whatever, like, let's just put a Chinese accent on him.
Use these Chinese now.
Yeah. Yeah. Which was pretty problematic.
That's true. I think we've finally started to move away from accents a little more.
Do you think so because we also have Uncle Roger?
Oh. And I actually find that people in America don't like his whole accent thing, but then people in Asia think he's so funny.
I was like, Oh, okay.
Maybe I think this is offensive, but maybe that's just from my perspective.
Actually, I think that's a very important distinction because I'll still watch some comedians in Korea for example, and they still do a lot of shit that I'm just like, this will not fly in America, but even if what is considered there might be considered racist here, the reality is it's just such a different culture, which doesn't make it not racist, but the cultural context is just completely different.
So I think just like the context does make or break the situation a lot, but oftentimes as Americans, I think it's hard for us to kind of grasp that since a lot of what we think is so America -centric.
That's true. I think also though, we maybe hate it because they're clumping us into this generalization that Asians sound like this when they speak English, but we're like, we're Asian but we do not have an accent.
So that is offensive to us.
But then maybe for other people, actual Asians abroad, they're like, oh, haha, that's hella funny, cuz like that is how we sound.
And like, we can relate to that.
Because that's what I hear every day.
Yeah. Yeah, I do think the lumping up at all is what really makes it offensive.
Because, like you said for us, it's like, not every Asian sounds like that.
And this is so overdone in the US.
But maybe for people in Asia, it's like, oh, people from this country do this.
Or they're able to appreciate the nuances of different cultures and different ethnicities more.
In terms of understanding Asian American dynamics, it's honestly really complex because there are just so many different types of Asians.
For example, I'm generalizing here, we're all first and second generation here right?
We're either born in Asia or our parents were born in Asia and we came here when we were really young, and we came during the 90s tech boom when they were trying to increase immigration, and there was a lot of H1B one -of -yuses and stuff for tech. So that's sort of our context, right?
I'm generalizing here, so let me know if I'm but uh so a lot of us grew up in like what's it called and like the sort of like tech like our parents are slightly more white color than what it was in like the freaking 60s right like post chinese exclusion acts high sh** right so yeah like our understanding of being asian and stuff like that is totally different like when i went to high school it was a very like academic Asian high school and when i brought my lunch to school and it was what my mom cooked me my friends would like, Yo, like, is that squid?
Like, Let me try some of that, right?
Which is crazy anywhere else.
And so I sort of grew up in the bubble here.
It was an interesting upbringing.
I appreciate it a lot.
But yeah, definitely saw a bubble.
You know, I actually saw a TikTok recently.
That was really funny to me because it was an Asian American.
And she was like, Yeah, I grew up in the Midwest and and it's different there, right?
And she was like, Lokey, the Asian Americans who grow up in California, are like the amount of privilege they have, it's like they're almost white.
In this bubble at least, you know?
In the California bubble.
And I was like, oh my God, she, Lokey has a point because there is like less shame attached to a lot of things that we grew up with.
We could express our interest in certain things and other people would understand, versus you know them questioning and being like that's weird or whatever.
I think we still experienced a bit of that and like, because we started being connected to the internet and it was some more outreach there, but all in all like in the Bay Area where we were, it was like a pretty safe space to express your Asian -ness.
And I feel like that's like the most interesting part about being an Asian -American right now is like we are able to have different ways to dissect our identity and sometimes I think about how I feel like I can relate way more to NorCal Asian Americans than SoCal Koreans for example, you know, but if you think about it like, oh, you know I'm Korean American.
So you would think that all Korean Americans across the board would have more to relate about but at the end of the day I feel like growing up asian -american in the Bay Area is like a very specific type of experience and I can relate more to people who have shared that experience with me versus people who might have the same ethnic background as me and the same cultural background but just grew up in a different type of area.
And it's so weird because SoCal is like a five -hour drive away, it's like a 40 -minute flight.
So it's like, why do I feel that different so stark?
But I still do because SoCal has a lot of Koreans and NorCal definitely has a lot of Koreans but we're not the majority ethnic group group, whereas some pockets of SO 'Cal might have Koreans be the majority ethnic group.
So it's like all these things where I don't want to slice and dice it the way that I am, but I feel like I end up doing it anyway.
It's like little microbiomes.
As long as you treat people like individuals, like stereotypes are how we make our understanding of the world to a certain extent, right.
You were mentioning SO 'Cal versus NorCal Asians, like the Korean community and stuff.
I was actually chatting with my friend who's from SoCal she loves SoCal and she was saying you can really feel the income inequality in NorthCal but in SoCal it sort of feels like everybody, no matter what your parents do or what you do, sort of hangs out and there's like a lot more feelings of diversity rather than in NorthCal it's mostly like mostly like mainland Chinese right.
She was saying like she misses SoCal a lot.
I think there's a good amount of Taiwanese people up here too but yeah it ends up being that's true yeah Chinese people I think are the majority right there's also like shout out to the Viet community shout out to the kilometers community shout out to the Philippines the Philippines and everyone else so let's nervously there's a Japanese community too oh gosh they're gonna shout everyone else oh but yeah the only thing I know about like socal Asian's or like socal Korean's is like the freaking LA rights, bro.
That's just crazy. Yeah.
And I think the interesting thing too is I feel like Asian -American identity has evolved far beyond just ethnicity now and I see like pockets of Asian -American identity in different archetypes that we see.
So one example is like the Asians that love to rave and another one is like the Asians that love to game and I think there's a lot of overlap in between these identities, but for a lot of people, I feel like this becomes a really big part of how they present themselves and how they interact with the world around them, and it's cool to see like these bubbles form within the community.
And it's not just like, oh, Korean Americans, like Chinese Americans, it's not just that anymore, you know?
Yeah, it's pretty interesting how hard we like microcategorize ourselves.
We pick out like one trait and we're suddenly we're like you know what that trait is gonna become this group's identity and we're gonna stereotype everything based on that and I actually had an interesting thought I was like what if us micro -categorizing ourselves is a trauma response to us getting lumped together all the time by general society.
like you know how in the past like you were saying gain People would just kind of lump us together, maybe get the wrong ethnicities when they're, I don't know, casting for TV or something or just in general, right?
And now we're like, no we're different.
And so we just micro -categorize ourselves hella hard. Does anybody else like Raving, Valorant, Bova?
I like all these things.
But yeah, you guys bring up a really good point cause yeah, it's weird that we like categorize ourselves and then stereotype ourselves so hard in an attempt to be different.
Oh yeah there's some irony there for sure but I do think it's kind of nice because we've broken out of the Asian people just to stem or whatever so there is more representation even if it might still be a little bit reductive right they call it like Boba liberalism like the type of modern Asian.
Oh my gosh I have so many complex feelings about that stuff because on one hand it is nice to have different representation on the other hand now if you want to be quote unquote cool you have to do these things actually oh wait on the topic of Raving i also wanted to mention Asian people love raving so much that when you go to there's a really big festival here called Head in the Clouds they will always have one EDM artist and he's just some very talented white dude right like they'll have like aluminum or zen but like the Asian people claim him like uh will like claim whatever DJ is on and it's,
I think it's so funny.
Oh my god. I always see TikToks of like people at the raves.
The caption is the great Asian migration from like, Alenia to Zed or something like that, and then it just shows this giant wave of Asians walking to the next set.
And I was like, oh my god, this is like, if it's the stereotype, like all the Asian ravers love like these DJ's or whatever.
And you know, I thought Elennium was Asian for the longest time.
Really? Because I feel like I've only heard Asian people talk about him versus someone like Zed like I know he's a big DJ cause I see everyone across the board talk about him so I was shocked to find out he was white.
I think it's so funny how much Asian people love melodic bass that is a hundred percent like you said, a trauma response.
Because okay, I love Elennium and all these artists and stuff and whatever.
But when I go to these events literally people have their arms Outstretched to the heavens as beautiful melodic bass like all these heavenly chords play and I'm like is this church Guys are we worshiping right now Spiritual right now and then the DJ is like like if you feel compelled, you know, if you're here with the ones you love I'm like, I'm like, oh my god.
It feels like I'm back in church from like when I was young like crazy I'm just trying to feel something I guess and then people are like.
Oh my god, like this DJ changed my life.
But I do think raving is like a good way to break out of maybe if you had a more restrictive like childhood or you want to get out of being like quote unquote like nerdy or like whatever right I think raving is a good way to express that side of yourself.
Just don't make it your whole personality.
You know the world's big.
There's a lot of things to enjoy.
So that's, that's my think piece on that.
Well, I actually have two takes about the whole, like, why do we, you know, dive into these microcategories thing so much?
And one is like, yes, if, like, there's definitely a push pull of at one point we were all lumped into like, Oh, you guys are just Asian and therefore XYZ kind of like traits apply to you.
So then I feel like when something like that happens to a community, it starts to divide the community a lot.
Where it's like, oh, I'm not like that person, why are you lumping me in with that person like here, the reasons why we're different.
You recover from that by reuniting again, and being like, Oh guys, here are all the reasons why we should be a community again, because we like boba, we like rave like you start to find easy reasons to not hate each other because you're in the same community anyway.
But then when that happens, you start to see the critiques in that too.
So like the boba liberalism critique, where it's like, why do we hang onto these niche -specific things, and make that our whole identity?
So then you start to break out again, right?
It's like, oh, I'm different in this community because of this.
But then also at the same time, because we have to fix that like Asian label towards the end, maybe that makes it seem more like an issue when it doesn't really have to be.
Preach? I don't know.
Cause like when I think about raving Asians, friends, they really make it their personality.
They deep dive into that shit.
They have like merged from their favorite DJs they're like obsessed with them.
That's like all they listened to just EDM and like, that's all they talk about, too.
So I think maybe there's like an element of both sides, you know, where it's like one, we are kind of categorizing ourselves within our community, but then maybe also once we've categorized it, the people buy into it.
And they're like, yeah, fuck it, I'm an Asian raver now.
So then they like, make it their personality.
It's like co -opted by the people who are like trying to find their personality.
Do you think, um, Asian people in, extremely generally speaking, have more of a communal aspect than maybe the traditional non -POC Asian, right?
So I think we're slightly more susceptible to like cult behavior.
Just putting it out there.
maybe I don't know.
I don't know. I'm not a scientist here.
Like group behavior.
Group behavior. There you go.
That's a way better way to put it.
Thank you so much. We're more susceptible to group behavior.
I just wanna say, I've also been to the pits of like the gaming, Asian gaming community and I've been back, you know.
It's an echo chamber.
Like, don't get me wrong.
Once again like I love being basic.
I love valorate guys.
I love League of Legends.
I've given 10 years of my life, qualified.
But the way everybody sort of normalizes playing freaking hours of this game every day.
And oh my gosh, don't even get me started on the E -Dating on Valorant and stuff like that.
Yeah, but it's just, it's too broad of a topic.
Dude, every time I see E -Daters in my lobby, I fear for my life.
Wait, what do you see them in your lobby?
They'll have like matching names, matching game tags, matching banners, just like Yang said, and then I just fear that they'll open their mouth and like say really you know cringe coupley stuff and I'm like dude we're just trying to play a game It's like maple story all over again it is oh my gosh that's such a good connection I went to maple fest one year in LA and it was literally all Asian people oh my god and I was like this explains everything yeah I mean it is literally a Korean game and also maple story is awesome.
But I was like, oh, like, oh, yeah.
But I guess, like, to conclude the whole gaming community and stuff, I think it's awesome.
Right. There's like K -pop and Overwatch now.
And like Valorant also works with Asian artists and stuff like that.
But ultimately, like it is an echo chamber.
I mean, the company is doing it because they love their community, but also they want to make money.
And then Asian people are like, oh, my God, like, This is literally how I talk to my friends every day.
It just, and then they're like, oh yeah, this is normal.
And I'm like, oh honestly, okay, wait, I love gamers.
Y 'all are my people, but like also read a book.
No hate, no hate, but it's like, there's more things out there, you know?
I guess leaning into these personalities is also just more visible.
It's like the hype train is there with like the Raving Asians, the TikTok Asians, the Valorant Asians.
And a lot of these people also exist on the streaming or like social media platforms too So then you see them way more than I don't know the book club asian Label like all of these things as like the Asian tsu is a book club asian okay, but i also was thinking as we were you know talking this through and Like, I would say us three are not necessarily in any specific micro category, but some other people truly are in a micro category.
So I'll say for example, like, I also like playing Valorant, but I'm not like a Valorant Asian.
And like Jane, you know, she likes Valorant, she likes Raving, she likes Boba, but she's not really like, she's not really like belonging to just one of those micro categories, right?
Yeah. Wait, I'm sorry.
Ye love's, Momo is sending me shout out Taiwan.
And so I feel like you can definitely like a certain thing.
That's part of a certain subcategory, but you yourself don't have to make it your whole personality.
So I think there's definitely that split, right?
There are certainly people who just really buy into it and like lead the charge for that subcategory.
And then there's also other people who dabble but aren't fully immersed into a certain subcategory.
That's a good point.
To qualify as a valor in Asian there are specific attributes that you must have. Yeah.
I think a lot of Asian American content creators, for example, will lean into these things.
Actually, what Jesus said earlier is really interesting because when other races follow trends.
Nobody's like, oh, this race trend.
Ooh. Right. Like, um, but then for Asian people, I do think we're a little bit hard on ourselves because when they do play into these niches, it's actually them expanding out of the worldview.
It's just that we're a little bit more like, I don't want to say mature, but like, uh, we've had more time to expand into a lot of different interests.
Right. So like right out of college, yeah.
I went to a ton of waves, but then after that it's like okay I also like I don't know I also like D &D I also like reading like I like art like music whatever right I do think a lot of these people are either maybe younger or not really interested in a lot of other things yeah maybe it's like too fun shit like yeah I don't know like this is it that's all they need you know like I do think Asian content creators because they see these trends they see the market they see the easy audience to capture I see them leaning into these things for example like there's a huge cultural discourse on like tick
tock and Twitter and stuff like that where people are criticizing the biggest Asian American creators and they're like, you're holding Asian people back like with these stereotypes and stuff.
But as a creator, it's very normal to lean into trends and yeah again like other races don't get criticized for that as much. I feel like so Yeah, that's a really good point.
Like we can't fault them.
That's how they're gonna make their money.
that's how they're gonna keep their audience's attention.
It's been kind of proven that sometimes if you move away from what your audience expects, then you can expect to probably lose a good chunk of them because they're like, this is not what I came here for, I subscribed to see like Valorant content, but now suddenly you're just chatting at us.
So I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense.
That like we can't just always look at creators to, like, pave the way because they— it's like their job—they just have to do what's gonna be entertaining and successful for them.
You know, this actually reminds me of, like, I've seen this comment posted a lot on Korean articles sometimes where there will be a Korean person that does something that is bad, I guess, to say in a general sense.
For example, if there was some corruption uncovered in, like, the Korean government and it becomes like international news, right?
A comment that I'll often see is like, Oh, this is like an international embarrassment.
Or this is like giving us global shame, like you are bringing shame onto Korea.
And I wonder if some of that sentiment is echoed in how we view like representation in the Asian American community, where we want someone to be like the face of the community.
And if they do something that's bad, or maybe doesn't align with what I want the community to progress towards, we're like, Oh, this is bad for the white gaze, or this is bad in terms of other communities looking at our community.
In a lot of ways, that's unfair, and I guess I don't necessarily know if other communities are thinking that when they see big Asian creators.
Are they necessarily saying, oh, this creator is like this, or therefore the entire Asian community is like this?
That's probably not necessarily true, but I do feel like it's a sentiment that is often echoed.
It's like, Yeah, it's so true like it just falls onto this one person's shoulders when they didn't ask for it like they're just trying to make a living.
And I guess it depends too whether it like this person is doing something truly like egregious that's just you know universally accepted as like wrong but sometimes I see that criticism on I don't know like small stuff like oh this is embarrassing like take this down bro you're making the community look bad.
Mm -hmm um that's a lot of pressure.
Yeah. I think it's so true and I think it was very common and I honestly think it's still kind of common in like media right like in like Hollywood like Oh my god this one person basically represents the whole Asian community because they get to be on the big screen, but like they didn't ask for that and like, they should be allowed to still be themselves at the same time.
it's hard because when we're thinking about it, sometimes it's like, well that one person maybe is like the only representation that we're getting on the big screen or whatever, and so we're all relying on this, you know, this one figure, but like, hopefully it gets better with more representation.
I do feel like nowadays we get a little bit more representation in media, maybe that huge weight of responsibility is the lightning of it.
I feel like I've heard that criticism a lot and the criticism of that criticism that's like, hey, we can't just expect this one person to do all the heavy lifting for our one community.
First of all, I think maybe we should just let people be weird. Let people be different.
But I saw on TikTok, there was this trend where even if someone's doing something a little bit weird, instead of commenting anything mean, on Tiktok they'll be like, who is this diva, right?
Or they'll say like, oh my God, do you do weddings?
Oh my God. It's just cute, right?
Just let people be a little bit quirky, I guess.
My favorite is like a combo.
It's like close enough.
Do you do weddings?
I think it's so funny.
Maybe we should just let people be themselves more, because..
I also felt growing up.
I literally, I think Asian people struggle with this all the time.
Like we're always like, we don't fit in.
I don't feel like we fit in.
But it's like, who are we trying to fit into?
When I was growing up, I didn't feel like I fit in with the Korean Fobs.
And then I hang out with Korean Americans and then I'm like, I don't think they feel like I fit in with you either.
I don't know. And then there's like ABGs.
And I'm like, I don't know how to be an ABG.
I don't know how to look this bad.
I'm sorry. And then the Valorant people, I'm like, I love video games, but I don't know how to do this either.
right? so like yeah i feel like i carved my own way but it was it wasn't out of me being like oh like i'm different it's like oh god i'm different like i don't know like i don't know how to hang like this guys i'm sorry so i think i'm a diva guys okay guys this might be a little deep but do you think this is just us becoming our parents because we see a certain micro subculture become successful and maybe success is defined in different ways it's like they have friends they have fun they're successful in their jobs you know any of those things and so we are hard on ourselves because we're like
we need to do something that gets us up there too and so it's easy to like put yourself into one of these like micro categorizations because you're like if I do it this way I'll be successful like those other people I see too.
Yeah, I think it's like the sense of belonging aspect for sure.
And maybe it's kind of like, oh, I don't feel like I am truly American, because I'm not white, and then you go back to Korea and you're like, I don't feel like I'm truly Korean, because they look at me funny when I'm there.
And then you come back and you're like, guys, I'm a Valorant Asian, like, this is the community I choose.
That's hard being honest. Yes.
I also think it applies to us expecting influencers or content creators or whatever people in the media to uphold the community image, because that's like kind of what your parents are doing with you, right?
Or the stereotype, right?
You're supposed to do things that make your parents proud.
So we're almost expecting these people to represent us and make us proud.
Yeah, that's true because I was unemployed for like a year but I was working on like to a streaming and blah, blah, blah.
But I would have to tell Asian parents, I wouldn't tell them like, oh, I'm unemployed.
I would be like, oh, I'm a freelance entrepreneur.
It's like the craziest cap.
But that was the only way for them to not like look down on me, right?
So I feel like that's probably happening on a bigger scale, you have to be like an intelligent asian american creator who's capable of like think pieces and stuff like that and having a stance on every issue or or you're like Not our representation.
Yeah, like why can't I just be an asian humbo?
Hell yeah, hell yeah Turn up Yeah, maybe that's what the riz content in a lot of the asian american community is about right?
They're like, why can't I just be like a hot cool guy?
I mean, at the end of the day, I will say I am happy to see the rise of Asian creators and whatnot, I feel are very mainstream, but I do feel a little bit weird about it sometimes because like the Riz content in some ways, a lot of these creators are kind of like hopping on whatever's trendy or like on the bandwagon.
But is it weird that what's trendy is Asian faces, you know, I'm like, I'm glad you're capitalizing on it, but then that also makes me uncomfortable like what you're capitalizing on, and this is no shade to like the creators themselves, but it's like the wave and like the movement and the general audience thinking of us as a trend is like mildly weird. You're so right.
For every Asian creator, if you looked at their comments they would be like, oh my God, you look like Jungkook or like, oh my God, you look like Won -hyang.
And it's like, please.
at least name an actual like Asian idol or whatever that they look like yeah you're like this is completely inaccurate yeah yeah and the k -pop stuff opens like a whole new door too there are times where I mean Korean content and actually just Asian content in general is like trendy now and has been for a long time but I feel like there are always those moments where someone was, someone is like, Oh, you're Korean, like this new kdrama is popular right now.
Did you watch it? And I'm just like, no. Oh my god, that's right.
I was joking with Jason, when we were talking about this episode, I was like, Oh, that's right.
Like, there's definitely a period of time where kpop started to really blow up.
And suddenly you are all expected to be like, professional Korean ambassadors.
Sorry, so real. Look at me wrong.
I love my kpop in terms of like Kpop, I also feel like the beauty standards are really insane It's like a weird combination because I'll say that I'm Korean and then it's like people will like Give me like plus two attractive points and I'm like like You're fetishizing me but like I mean, I guess I'll take the points.
I don't know like am I supposed to reject the points don't know what to do here yeah and i do think the beauty standard stuff also stresses me out a lot because shit i'm not an idol what the heck yeah i can't perform to that standard and i i do feel like there's a lot of pressure to sort of like represent curianess in that way like whether it's like oh you should be able to like dance and know how to do this makeup trend or whatever and you should be good at video games or something and it's like damn is this how Filipino people feel oh my god their parents expect them to be good at karaoke I've
heard that if you're Filipino and you're not good at singing You literally get bullied as like a kid like all my friends said like, oh I didn't know how to sing But like they would bully me.
So I had to learn. Yeah But yeah, it's cool to see Korean stuff trending I mean for me I feel like I grew up in a Korean household I grew watching a lot of like Korean TV had Korean friends so I feel not too stressed about it, but I worry about people who don't feel as connected or maybe they're like, Wajian or if you guys have read Crying in Hmart.
Let me just say, I did not read Crying in Hmart, I read the first 5 pages and I was like, oh my god, this is an extremely poignant story about a Wajian experience and she feels disconnected because she lost her mom.
I cannot relate to this whatsoever.
But the struggle is like completely real, right?
Yeah, I feel like that is a side effect though of these Microcategories blowing up and some of the microcategories we've been talking about whether it's like the rave one or the gaming one Like those are kind of chosen categories But I feel like there are also microcategories that are like inflicted onto people I saw this tick -tock once that was like, sorry I'm not this kind of Asian and the kind of Asian that they were apologizing for not being was like the hot Asians on TikTok that do a specific makeup sell or something like that.
And that is what happens, I think, when a specific look blows up.
Not everyone can relate to that, even if you're the same racial group or the same ethnic group, so then you start to feel like, oh, these people can look like this.
How come I can't? And I think that's also the chasm between what we're seeing with Asian guys or Asian girls blowing up on TikTok but then you also see still a lot of Asian people complaining that in the dating scene they're seen as like undesirable.
I guess mostly like Asian men I think is more common for that topic so it's like weird, it's like we're trending but then at the same time like statistically we're still kind of suffering in a certain sense.
Dude just move to the bay.
People date Asians here all the time.
I give dating advice on my Twitch and that ends up being half of the advice I'm like just moved to California, which is not productive advice.
The housing prices are crazy, but yeah.
Touching on like Asian beauty standards.
I think it's so crazy that Asian faces are so trending right now that like Asian fishing is a huge issue.
Basically if you do your makeup in a certain way like Do Yeon or like K Beauty or like little bit of like Eyosaur.
People will be like, Oh my god, you're Asian fishing.
Like you're trying to be Asian, aren't you?
And it's just such a double -edged sword because I'm sure some people are maybe like appropriating but I feel like most of the time what I've seen it is like, for example, I have this like Native American friend and she looks very traditionally like maybe Asian, like she has monolids and stuff like that.
And she gets so much hate and she's literally like, this is my face, guys, like, I don't what to say yeah it's definitely really hard to figure out that line between like appreciation for like the trend and the beauty and how much of it is like, oh like do you want to be Asian?
You're scaring me a little bit there Ariana Grande.
Yeah I mean that makes total sense because your friend has monolids and a huge part of Asian makeup is you know adapting around monolids because so much of like the makeup that we see in the Western world does not really work with monolids.
So it's like, of course your friend should look into what the other monolidid people are doing and use that to work for herself too.
So it's definitely applicable to people, but yeah, I guess you're right.
Some people maybe hop on to these trends in a more like, appropriation -esque way.
That's almost like taking advantage of it.
I think it's mostly like the historical context of it, Which is always really hard to separate from like the current thing that's happening.
I think that's sort of the context, but it's also like All of us are pretty young.
And like if we didn't do that in the past like is it okay to do Asian beauty trends?
I don't know the rules here.
I don't make Society's rules, you know, I just live in here but I've even seen it to the extent that there's like RCT a communities which is which stands for like race change to another.
I'm sorry if I'm exposing your audience to like really horrible content But this stuff is really popular with very like young people, right?
Because when a lot of people who are Asian when they are younger, you know They thought to themselves like oh, I wish I was white right and it's because they were like bullied or they wanted to fit in But now there's other ethnicities who are like I wish I was Asian and I think oh my god but no, you can completely appreciate Asian culture.
And you know what? I will be your ambassador.
Hit me up. I will show you Asian things without you having to feel like, oh, let me change my race, right?
Yeah. Also, that's not a thing.
I don't know. I have also seen that pocket of TikTok, too.
And I feel like I feel so conflicted about it because in a certain sense, I feel like alpha is growing up in an era that's less racist in terms of what's portrayed on mainstream media.
Because to be honest, I feel like a lot of the movies and content that was shown on cable or literally in movie theaters when we were young, was actually blatantly racist. And Jen Alpha is not exposed to that content as much anymore.
But also at the same time, I've been seeing such racist shit on IG reels, I feel like it's really bad, or certain pockets of TikTok where I read the comments and I'm like, I thought we were past this but it's actually coming back with a vengeance.
So then it makes me feel like Gen Alpha isn't necessarily born in a post -racism era.
You know? They're just born in an era where it's virtue signaling and portraying yourself as anti -racist co -exists with other very harshly racist content on social media.
So it's almost like the two extremes have just gotten more extreme.
And it's all on one platform still.
So I don't know, maybe this changing race thing is a product of both of those things co -existing.
Because wanting to change a race into being Asian is kind of wholesome and anti -racist, but also severely Really racist and like, you know, appropriative at the same time.
Yeah, that's accurate.
I think like a more mainstream example of that, too, could be like the Samu Liu and like Boba thing, Boba, like they spoke global with like the second be there was like a shark tank episode where somebody pitched Boba and they were like, oh, the drink doesn't have to be ethical anymore, even though they literally work with Taiwanese manufacturers, but they're trying to pitch Boba as like this non quote unquote, ethnic drink to be sold to like a And you can tell those people were also like I don't think they were necessarily American, they had a slight accent, so I think they're from a different
country, right. And then that means like whole other race relations or whatever.
But Simu Liu was like, hey, this is a Taiwanese drink, this already exists.
The other panel member who was like a South Asian woman, she was the one who was actually like, hey, like, there's room for innovation, right.
Yeah, I think that's sort of like an example of those two micro microcosms, like you said, or those two like voices talking to each other, right?
Like one is sort of appreciating in a misunderstanding way of this thing.
And then like the quote unquote woke person who actually knows like the situation is like, hey, like that's, that's not exactly right.
Yeah. And then there's a third person who's like, why are you angry?
Like stop being angry.
Yeah. I don't know.
Yeah. It is what it is.
Yeah, I think part of me kind of wonders how long this trend, this Asian trend is going to continue because the reality of it is like to us, it's obviously not a trend.
It's just like our life.
But in the mass media and in the general audience, I think it kind of might be a trend.
So then are we riding this wave and then suddenly it's going to crash and then everyone's going to go back to like looking down or making racist jokes about Asian communities again?
Or is it gonna truly continue and become also mainstream?
And then the other aspect of me is also like we tend to tunnel vision on like specific ethnicities and like the representation of those specific ethnicities.
Everyone else who doesn't fit into those molds just don't get as much of a voice, so I feel like that is also a pretty big problem as well.
And you can see that fallout in like subtle Asian traits, like how it initially started.
I was like guys look we're all Asian and then people started coming out and being like well yes we are all Asian but why are we only talking about you know these three things we don't feel like we're being represented and then those communities start to like make their own sub pages and whatnot...
I just hope that other communities instead of just East Asian countries are going to get a voice and hopefully it's moving towards there but you know it's it's It's just hard, I think.
Oh, I love that actually.
Because sometimes people will bring up like Korean stuff and I'm like, yo, yeah, the Korean stuff is everywhere.
We don't need to talk about Korean stuff.
I'm like, what Asian are you?
Like you teach me phrases in your language.
What do you guys eat?
What is your culture.
Same with like South Asian inclusion.
I remember that was like a huge issue in the subtle Asian trace page.
Which is crazy, cause like we are all so Asian.
We have all the same like cultural roots And it's almost like sort of a disconnect from our history like if you go to South Asia like you'll see people who look East Asian right or like whatever cuz these lines are all arbitrarily drawn You guys watch monkey, man, which is like a fantastic movie by death Patel By the way like I highly highly recommend it you can see he represents all different types of South Asians Then it just made me feel really connected like to South Asia.
Like it that's why I think like media representation is really good And I think it's really important to reconnect with generations past in order to fully understand what it means to be Asian.
It's sort of like a homecoming situation.
Yeah, I feel like there's a level of erasure that comes with being Asian in the U .S. I think maybe some of that is just like the history that we learn is American -focused and then also after that it's more like Eurocentric than it is revolving around Asia.
But when I talk to my parents like they know so much about the intricacies of different countries that exist in East Asia and Southeast Asia and South Asia and these are things that I don't know even though I feel like on a day -to -day basis like I interact with a lot of people who come from these communities.
We just don't talk about it as much or like learn about it as much in the US.
I don't know it's kind of like what happens when you're in like a melting pot maybe like you just start to not hear these things as much as you would if you grew up elsewhere.
And it's crazy because my parents grew up in Korea, and it's like they're learning about shit that I'm not learning about in the US.
But Korea is like a very homogeneous country, so I just don't understand why that divide happens.
I think the way your ethnicity is treated in the US depends on the greater like geopolitical political relationship between the US and your country, right, realistically.
Yeah, the US is infamous, like you said, for not having good international studies and teachings, right?
Because ultimately our schools have to teach us, like, US is the best. Yeah, we have to do all this military intervention stuff.
Okay, whatever, controversial, whatever, too much, sorry.
But, yeah, I do think it's ironic that when you go to other countries, they have stronger stereotypes being in homogenous nations, but they're actually more well -educated.
And then in the US, you're supposed to have all these understandings of race relations, and if you say something wrong or not updated, people will rebuke you.
Or they'll be like, oh, you're stereotyping or whatever.
But in reality, that's just an American understanding of things which is one standpoint Yeah, it's so true like we try to be so woke but we have like no education on the rest of the world The intentions are good, but it's like the reality is we just like don't know shit.
Yeah, I always try to like look my parents brains about like their childhood and I'm like dude There's just so like similar to what you're saying GZ like there's just so much I don't know, that they just know.
I'm like, how do you know all this Chinese history?
And they're like, dude, we're like, we fucking grew up there.
What are you talking about?
You know. Dude, there's so much Chinese history, Lorde, though.
It's like thousands of years in the arcs, bro.
Well, I feel like this topic is super complex and it's kind of never ending, too, because it's always evolving, but I thought it was pretty fun to like sit down and talk about some of our complex feelings.
And I think ultimately, there's so many perspectives and so many facets to this topic that I don't even think it's like black and white where it's like, oh, you know, this is wrong, this is right.
It's just like, oh, these are things that are happening.
And how do you feel about it?
And like, you know, what is a direction that you personally want to go into.
So thank you, Jisoo and Yang for sitting down with me and chatting about our complicated feelings together.
For our listeners out there, if you have any thoughts about the American experience or even the international experience, feel free to reach out to us.
We have Instagram at eatyourcrustpod and we also have email eatyourcrustpod at gmail .com.
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Thanks for listening!
And don't forget to eat your crust!
