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Hello listeners, welcome to this new episode of The Podcast.
How are you doing today?
I hope you're doing fine out there in Podcast Land.
I'm very happy because today I have the opportunity to talk to Matt Abrahams on my podcast.
Matt is an expert in communication and he has some very helpful insights and techniques
which can help us all to become better speakers.
In fact, Matt has devoted much of his professional life to researching and understanding this subject,
spoken communication, how to communicate effectively.
So he should have some very insightful things to say to us.
I'm going to talk to him a little bit later today.
So listeners, do you know Matt Abrahams?
Have you ever heard of him?
You might have read one of his books.
You might have heard his podcast.
You might have seen his TEDx talk on YouTube or one of his other presentations.
Here's a bit of background information about Matt so that you know who you're going to listen to
and what we're going to talk about.
So first of all, Matt Abrahams is a lecturer in organizational behavior at Stanford University's
Graduate School of Business in California.
This is quite a prestigious university and Matt gives lectures there on the subject
of organizational behavior which sounds pretty cool.
Doesn't it?
Organizational, is this like how people organize themselves?
Well, not exactly, but it's kind of that.
Organizational behavior is the study of the way in which people interact with each other.
The sort of interpersonal dynamics that go on between people.
And so this is linked to the ways in which we interact and communicate with each other.
It's related to psychology, behavioral studies, maybe a bit of linguistics.
Matt is also an expert consultant in communication skills,
which means that he works with private clients and helps them with their communication skills,
especially with presentation skills.
And he's helped people to prepare for things like Nobel Prize presentations, TED talks,
World Economic Forum presentations and more.
And as well as helping other people to do really good presentations,
Matt is an excellent presenter himself.
He's an experienced keynote speaker.
His presentation about communication techniques on the Stanford Graduate School of Business YouTube channel
has had over 34 million views.
Okay, and it's no surprise because it's an excellent video.
It's an excellent presentation.
A sort of masterclass in presentation skills.
Is that an overstatement?
Not really.
You should see it.
It's really good.
I'll put a link in the description.
So on top of all of those things,
Matt has a podcast about communication, which is called Think Fast Talk Smart.
And his second book, which was recently published,
is called Think Fast Talk Smarter.
How to speak successfully when you're put on the spot.
Okay, and in fact, that's really what we're going to talk about in this episode.
I'm going to ask Matt to give his comments, his insights, and his useful advice
for how to do exactly that.
How to speak spontaneously when you're put on the spot.
That's the idea.
Anyway, enough waffle from me.
Let's now meet Matt and talk to him about communication techniques.
Here we go.
Hello, Matt.
Very nice to meet you and very nice to have you on my podcast.
How are you today?
I am doing fantastically well.
Thank you and Luke, it's great to be with you.
Yeah, great.
You're in California.
How's California today?
I am.
We're having sort of a misty cold morning, not very typical for this time of year,
but I'm enjoying being hunkered down and all cozy to talk with you.
Yeah, perfect.
Perfect conditions.
Matt, so this is a podcast for learners of English.
And I was just wondering, do you ever have you ever worked with people
who speak English as a second language or a foreign language?
Absolutely, all the time.
And my mother taught English as a second language for about 15 to 20 years.
Oh, really?
So this is, yes, yes, two adults.
And this is, so this is something I'm very familiar with.
I would say on average about half of my students, I teach at Stanford's graduate school of business,
about half of my students, English is not their first language.
So I am very well experienced in working with people and being around people
for whom English is not their first language.
What do you find is the sort of challenge that they experience then
with communicating through speaking?
Two challenges.
One is anxiety.
Most of us get nervous speaking period,
but I think those who are non-native speakers have an added pressure,
sometimes that they put on themselves,
because they want to say it right, whatever that right is,
in terms of grammar, language, syntax, context, all of that.
And so anxiety is a big pressure that they put on themselves.
And then I think there's also just this notion of comfort
and many of my non-native speakers just want to be comfortable in their interactions
and sometimes that can be a challenge for them.
I'll tell you this, my non-native speaking students
tend to do better than my native speaking students routinely.
And it's because they focus on their communication with an intent
that native speakers don't.
I'm not saying native speakers are lazy,
although that might be the case in some situations.
It's just that the non-native speakers really appreciate the importance
of their communication and they really invest a lot.
And as somebody who teaches communication skills,
I see the benefits of that all the time.
Yes, of course, learners of English have got that added challenge
of having to control the language that they're dealing with.
And anxiety can really exacerbate those issues.
It can really affect people.
But on the other hand, I guess, learners of English apply themselves
so much more to communication.
Think about it a lot more and strategise about it a lot more.
And actually, that might even be an advantage in a way, as you said.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So some of the best advice that I ever heard given to a non-native speaker,
so I host a podcast myself and I had somebody on talking about this topic.
And the best advice he said is,
the goal of a non-native speaker should not be to sound like a native speaker.
The goal should be to just communicate their ideas.
And when you take that pressure off to sound like a native speaker
and just get your information across, it makes it easier for you.
And I really appreciated that advice.
And I think that advice translates in many ways.
If we just focus on getting it done rather than doing it perfectly, that helps.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So in your book, which is conveniently placed on the shelf behind you there,
there it is, folks.
So in your book, you talk about speaking successfully.
And it's a sort of a remedy for situations
when people feel very challenged by having to speak spontaneously.
So what kind of challenges are you referring to?
What are the challenges in spontaneous speaking?
Yeah, so first let me define what I mean by spontaneous speaking.
It's the majority of the communication we do.
You know, the planned presentations, the pitches, the meetings with agendas
are far less frequent than the questions I'm answering,
the feedback I'm giving, the small talk I'm making, the introductions I'm doing.
So a lot of our communication in our personal and professional lives is spontaneous.
And so the challenges are many.
One, we've talked about anxiety to this notion of trying to do it right.
Many of us see these situations as threats and challenges where I have to defend myself.
So there are a lot of things that we can do to reframe these,
to help ourselves feel more comfortable and confident in these moments.
And another big challenge is that people feel like I'm just not that person.
I was not born with the ability to speak well in the moment.
And that is absolutely not true.
We can all learn to be better in the moment communicators.
Talking about anxiety and speaking, sort of nervousness and stress.
What happens to us?
Why do we feel so stressed about public speaking?
And even not even doing a presentation just in a meeting or something
when it's your turn to speak, what is it that makes us feel so uncomfortable
about this kind of situation?
Yeah, regardless of the language, if you're an expert in the language or not,
a big thing that those of us who study this believe that it is hard wired
into being human, to be nervous when we speak in front of others.
And so we are addressing the biology, what biology has built into us.
When we put ourselves in front of others, we are risking our reputation
and our status relative to others.
And that can make us very nervous.
Now, the nice thing is, is there are things that we can do to manage that anxiety.
So just because it's innate, it's part of being human, doesn't mean we can't manage it.
So there are things we can do to manage both the symptoms.
That's what we physically feel.
That rapid heart rate, the shakiness and other things.
But also the things that make us nervous in the first place,
like trying to be perfect or seeing it as a threat or a challenge.
So the good news is there are things we can do.
The bad news is it's part of who we are, regardless of the language we're speaking in.
And interestingly, people who are non-native speakers in all my work with them,
some tell me that they're more nervous speaking in their native language
than they are in their adopted language, simply because they put less pressure on themselves.
They know it's newer, so they can make more mistakes.
And hey, it's because it's new to me, but they actually feel more nervous speaking in their native tongue.
So people are all over the place when it comes to anxiety.
The reality is, though, that we can do things to manage it.
What kind of things can we do?
Yeah, well, so there we go.
So many of the symptoms, the first and best thing we can do is to take some deep belly breaths.
The kind of breath you would take if you've ever done Tai Chi or Yoga
where you really fill your lower abdomen.
Many of us when we get nervous are heart starts beating fast, we start breathing shallow.
This is totally normal. This is your body responding to a threat.
Your body is trying to oxygenate itself so it can fight or flee.
And so if we take low, slow, deep breaths,
we can actually reduce the heart rate and the rapid breathing
so we can feel more present and calm.
If you're somebody who gets shaky, that's adrenaline.
A adrenaline's purpose is to move you from threat to safety.
So moving in a purposeful way, not pacing back and forth or swaying side to side,
but stepping towards your audience.
If you're standing or gesturing more broadly, those types of movements help that adrenaline dissipate
and make you look more confident.
If you're like me, I'd perspire and blush.
I don't know, look what happens to you when you get nervous.
I blush as video viewers can no doubt see, yeah.
I've always blushed and I've been living with this for years
back to even the days of school.
So I'd be in class and the teacher would ask me to answer a question
and I'd just go bright red.
And the worst thing about it is when I know that I'm going red,
that makes me go even more red.
So it's totally ridiculous.
So yeah, I blush. That's what happens to me.
It's the same thing with me.
And so let me give you this technique and you'll let me know
and let your listeners know if this actually helps.
The reason we're turning red and we're perspiring, we're sweating
is because our core body temperature is going up.
If you think about it, your heart speeding faster,
your body is tensing up.
So you're pushing more blood through tighter tubes.
Your blood pressure is going up.
It's just like you're exercising.
You're getting hotter.
And then when we get hot, we turn red and we perspire.
So we need to cool ourselves down.
And the single best way to cool yourself down,
believe it or not, it's going to be silly,
is to hold something cold in the palms of your hand.
When you hold something cold, it cools you down.
And on a cold morning, have you ever held warm tea
or coffee in a mug and felt it warming you up?
Yes.
We're just doing exactly the reverse.
So by holding something, I do this all the time.
Before I get nervous getting up in front of people,
I'll hold a cold bottle of water.
It reduces the sweating and the blushing.
I encourage you to try it and I'm going to be very curious
to hear if it helps you.
I'm doing it right now, listeners.
There you go. There you go.
There you go.
We'll see if it actually makes a difference to me right now.
That's a good tip.
That's a very good tip.
So we're talking about situations, listeners, right?
Where I suppose it might be before you have to do a presentation
or any of those moments where you know that you're going to be put on the spot.
And indeed, while it's happening, too.
So, yeah, you said, what moving purposefully?
So before I have to do something stressful, like for example,
if I have to do a presentation or if I'm teaching some high pressure lesson
or I'm doing stand-up because I do that, too.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, very nervous before certain stand-up shows.
Yes.
Depending on the context, right?
But I find that it's really a big deal trying to manage the stress
and trying to stay loose.
And I find that, yeah, my body posture makes a huge difference.
I feel like I want to sit down and go into a ball and look at my notes
and things like that and protect myself.
But I really have to try and force myself to stand up and open myself up.
And I've found over the years that that really helps.
Does that ring true with what you say?
Absolutely.
So you're actually highlighting a contentious bit of research.
Oh, really?
So I will share with you the results and then let you know that these results are debated.
And then the bottom line of what I'm going to say is if it works for you,
do it, don't worry about what academics say about it.
Okay.
So for a long time, we have known that when people are big with their bodies,
they are seen as more confident.
Nervous people make themselves smaller, they retreat.
So if you take a bigger body position, bigger body posture,
you look more confident.
And the easiest way to do this is to take your shoulder blades and just pull them down.
Do you notice how I'm just getting broader?
I'm not pumping my chest up.
But if I just stand bigger, you will think I'm more confident.
Now, the controversy comes from, there's some work that was done on power posing.
That is how you hold your body in one of these big postures
that said that if you do that for just a little bit,
you'll begin to feel more confident.
So it's not that others see you as more kind.
It's you yourself begin to feel that way.
Right.
That research has been called into question.
It's been hard to replicate.
The bottom line here is if you doing something that takes a big posture,
makes you feel more confident by all means, do it.
Let's not worry about what academic journals say about it.
The point is how you hold your body conveys meaning for others
and for yourself.
And as such, we should get ourselves into postures that make us feel better and more powerful.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
You talked about emphasis on perfection.
This is one of the things that sort of causes people to trouble when they are speaking spontaneously.
We want to be perfect.
We want to do it right.
What's the way that we can avoid putting this kind of pressure on ourselves?
Yeah.
So this is a big one, especially for non-native speakers.
Remember, I said we have to deal with symptoms and sources.
So one of the sources of our anxiety is we want to do it right.
And we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to do it right.
Now, I am here to tell you, as somebody who has been studying communication for almost three decades,
there is no right way to communicate.
There are better ways and worse ways, but there is no one right way.
And to put pressure on ourselves to be right actually reduces the likelihood that we will be able to do it right.
And I want to do a little tangent here because it is related.
Many non-native speakers when they are doing a plan presentation will memorize.
Because they feel like I have written it out.
This is the right way to say it.
I am going to memorize it.
For the same reason trying to be right, memorization doesn't help.
Here is why.
Your brain is like a computer.
It is not a perfect analogy, but it works.
You only have so much bandwidth that you can use.
Think about this. If you have a laptop and you have lots of windows open, or you are on your phone and you have lots of apps running,
every one of those windows and apps is running a little bit less well because all of the other ones are open.
So what we need to do is we need to reduce our focus on thinking about, am I saying it right?
Or am I saying the words exactly as I memorized them?
By dialing that down a little bit, you increase the resources you have to actually focus on what you are saying.
So the way we reduce the pressure of perfection is to focus on connection.
If I focus on connecting to my audience, getting my message across, not am I saying it the right way,
you actually have more resources to do it better.
So it is like closing down a lot of those windows and apps so that everything is going to be fine.
So that everything else performs better.
So I like to tell my students not only focus on connection, not perfection, but just strive for mediocrity.
The goal is to be mediocre because when you take the pressure off to be great, you actually do better.
So we can achieve greatness by just starting out trying to be mediocre.
It sounds counterintuitive, but it works.
I'm very happy to hear that because that is a very reassuring map because you have just pretty much discussed.
Described my general approach.
No, I'm joking, I suppose.
But yeah, okay.
What about mindset, the way we think about situations?
How does that come into it?
Absolutely.
So having an opportunistic mindset really matters.
Many of us go into these circumstances feeling that we're under threat, that this is a test.
So when somebody asks me a question or asks her feedback, I'm being tested and I need to pass the test.
So we get very defensive, we get very inside ourselves.
When in fact, if we see these just as opportunities to connect, to learn, to collaborate, it changes everything.
So how do we do that?
It's one thing for me to say, just see it as an opportunity.
Great, but how do I do that?
So in the book, I talk about four different mindset shifts.
Let me just share a couple of them, not all four unless you want.
So the first of these is this notion that comes from Carol Dweck's work on growth mindset.
She's become very famous for this approach.
Growth mindset is very powerful.
When we have something to learn, we can approach it as, I am able to learn this information.
It is possible.
Or we can say to ourselves, this just isn't for me, I'm not that person.
I am who I am and I can't change.
The, I can't change pieces of fixed mindset.
The opportunity to grow and to expand is a growth mindset.
As part of what her research shows, simply adopting this mantra of not yet can be very powerful.
So if I'm in a communication situation that doesn't go well, rather than saying to myself,
oh, I'm doomed, I'll never be good at this, I'm just not that kind of person.
I say to myself, not yet, I'm just, I just haven't learned those skills, I haven't gotten that feedback.
So by adopting this notion of not yet, I can learn this.
It helps you have a much more positive mindset and you actually end up doing better.
You know, my mother who taught ESL for almost two decades, she used her superpower in teaching ESL,
was not teaching the grammar and the vocabulary and all of that.
It was really encouraging her students to want to learn and to take the risks and to do the repetition.
So this not yet mindset can free you up to really become more present and to do better.
And then the last, the second one I'll share, many of us fear making mistakes.
Yet we know that we learn through making mistakes.
That's how we learn.
So I like to reframe what a mistake is.
To me, a mistake is just like what you see in movies and televisions when they, when they film them.
They, they do different takes.
A take is simply one version of it.
A director will ask the actors to do it this way.
And then they'll do a take.
They literally have that clapboard, take one.
And then the director will say, okay, now do it this way.
Take two.
Take one or take two is not wrong or better.
They're just different.
So if I, if I say something and it doesn't go the way I want,
I just say to myself, take two.
I'm going to say it again.
So if I'm trying to explain something to you and it doesn't work, maybe I just try it again.
But this time I tell a story because that might be a different take on what I'm trying to say.
So if we adopt a mindset of not yet, I can learn this.
I just haven't yet.
And missed takes are just opportunities to do it again differently.
Then you can fundamentally feel better about what you do and ultimately get better at it.
Yeah, that's perfect for language learning because there are just so many mistakes involved.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, a lot of people just completely sort of phobic of making mistakes, which is natural, I suppose.
But it really prevents them from getting anywhere.
So you've got to embrace them.
Haven't you, I suppose?
Absolutely.
At least not run away from them or or beat yourself up over them.
Say, oh, my goodness, I'm a bad person.
Mistakes are part of learning.
Mistakes are helpful.
In fact, I'm going to I'm not going to have this quote correct.
But I don't know if you're familiar with who Yo-Yo Ma is.
I see some musical instruments before.
So amazing, amazing cellist, right?
He has this quote and I'm not going to say it right.
But it goes something like this where he says, music doesn't come alive for me until I make my first mistake.
Now, I want you to, so what's so impactful for me of this is that one, Yo-Yo Ma makes mistakes.
Yeah.
Two, he actually looks for them and embraces them.
And if somebody who is at that, that height in his career still makes mistakes and can embrace them,
I can certainly make mistakes and embrace them because I am nowhere near his ability in anything in my life.
So that just helps me, it just helps with perspective taking.
That's good.
That's great to know that, yeah, that Yo-Yo Ma makes mistakes, makes us all feel a bit more human.
Exactly.
Exactly.
What role does listening take in all of this?
Because we're talking about being a better speaker and stuff.
But is it all just about speaking?
No, not at all.
Listening is a critical part of it.
To be a good, spontaneous speaker, you have to be in the moment and you have to be responsive to what is needed.
The only way to assess what's needed is to listen.
Most of us are not good listeners.
We listen just enough to get the idea of what somebody is saying and then we begin practicing and rehearsing and judging.
So we need to be more present.
We need to listen for the bottom line, not the top line.
So we need to be saying to ourselves, what is this person really trying to say?
How would I summarize it?
Actually, sometimes speaking that summary, in other words, what we call paraphrasing, can be really helpful because it does two things.
One, it validates, I heard what you really meant.
And two, it feels nice to be listened to.
And when somebody paraphrases and you do an excellent job, by the way, of paraphrasing, it makes you feel valid.
It makes you feel good.
So listening is critical because in listening, I understand better what you need in the moment.
Yes, absolutely.
Okay.
Structure.
I'm, by the way, listeners, I keep sort of giving Matt these prompts because you know, this is, I'm basically going through the contents page of his book here.
That's basically what I'm doing.
I mean, Matt is like the ideal guest.
All I need to do is just like throw him a word and he'll just give us the perfect answer.
It's fantastic.
I'm not looking for the perfect answer, but thank you.
There is so much that I can say about structure.
And for learners of a language, non-native speakers, structure is really a huge unlock.
It has the potential to do a lot.
So I'm going to spend a few moments on this if you don't mind.
So many of us, when we speak, we just list information.
And this is very hard for our brains to take in.
Non-native speakers suffer more from this than most people because if I just list a whole bunch of information, that is overwhelming.
Not only are all people bad at taking in lists, but taking in a list that's not in a language that's my native language is even harder.
So we can help everybody, not just non-native speakers, if we package our information up in a logical way.
To me, a structure is nothing more than a logical connection of ideas.
Anybody who has ever watched a television advertisement has seen what I mean by a structure.
Most TV advertisements follow a structure of problem, solution, benefit.
They suggest there's some challenge or problem in the world.
Your dishes aren't as clean as you'd like them.
You're not as healthy as you'd like to be.
They offer products and services that fix those problems and then they share with you or tell you the benefit.
That's a structure problem solution benefit.
What a structure does is it helps the person hearing it to digest it because it's packaged nicely and logically and our brains are wired for that.
And it helps me as the communicator to prioritize what I'm saying in a way that it'll make it easier for you.
So there are many structures that exist that can help us to communicate more effectively.
I'll give you my favorite.
And this one I like because you can use it in so many ways.
It is three simple questions.
What?
So what?
Now what?
What is the information that you're sharing?
It could be your update if you're at a meeting and you're updating people.
It could be your feedback if somebody's asked you for feedback. It could be your answer if somebody's asked you a question.
The so what is why is it important to the people you're talking to and then now what is what comes next afterwards?
So just by answering those questions, what so what now what?
You package your information up and make it easy for others to use.
Now I'm going to take a quick time out Luke.
I just used what so what now what to answer your question about a structure.
I told you what structures were why they're important and I gave you examples of ones you can use.
That's what so what now what in use.
So if your listener said, hey, Matt's answer sounded really packaged well.
I understood it.
That's because I simply put it in a structure.
So what can people kind of take this structure when they are in various situations right?
They can kind of prepare themselves or just at least think in these terms for presentations or those moments in meetings when you have to do something or any situation where you've got to just share information.
Does it I guess does it become a habit?
Do you think the way if people do it again and again?
Does it just sort of like slot into a sort of a habit of behavior?
Yes, absolutely.
And that's exactly how you get better at it. You have to practice.
Just like an athlete, just like a musician, the only way you get good at it is by practicing it.
And then when you practice it, it becomes very natural.
So if you want to learn the structure I just shared, what so what now what?
Here's what I challenge you to do.
When you are done listening to Luke's podcast or my podcast or whatever, I want you to stop and I want you to say, what was that about?
Why is it important to me and what can I do with that information?
In other words, just ask yourself what so what now what?
We know from research that by doing this little bit of reflection, you will remember the content better.
We remember content better that we think about in question after the fact.
The other thing you're doing is you're drilling the structure so it becomes more natural for you.
So if you do this for a week after you read things or listen to things a couple times a day, all the sudden this structure becomes very natural for you.
So I encourage everybody listening to just practice this and you'll see the benefits of doing it.
Right. What did I just hear? Why is that important? What can I do with it next?
More or less or what? So what now what?
That's right.
Great. There's something like a million things I can ask you Matt.
While I was preparing for this interview, I checked out some of your presentations on YouTube. You've got one which is on the Stanford Graduate School of Business YouTube channel.
Do you know how many views it's got?
It has a lot. I've lost count but it's got a few million.
It's about 34 million at this moment.
Oh my goodness.
Yes.
Do you know what the top comment is under the video?
I haven't looked at it in a long time.
Okay. I've got to read it out to you. I can't remember it but let me just try to find it.
Hold on. It's just bear with me a second.
Okay. So here's one of the top comments.
21,000 likes. It says he never uses um well for 50 minutes. Incredible.
Right.
That's really interesting.
And there are 279 replies to that. The first reply says yes he did. Check it out.
16 minutes and six seconds.
And I checked 16 minutes and six seconds and this is what happened.
The creative arts department.
Literally a microsecond of the creative department just between two words.
So I found that to be quite funny.
So what I find fascinating is that people actually looked at it.
Anyway that's interesting.
Well I mean it's true. How do you manage to do that?
Because that's a thing that lots of people have in their first language, second language
which have a language it is. Little fillers and things like that.
Have you have you always just been able to kind of speak so fluently without those little sounds?
And why do we make those sounds anyway?
Yes. So lots of questions there.
The answer to your first question is no I've not I've not always been able to do that.
Nor do I always never say that.
You will hear me say ums and us probably as part of this that we're doing.
We say them for so I interviewed somebody who is a neuro linguist.
Her name is Valerie Friedland, fascinating person.
And say I just did one. She helped me understand that these serve a purpose
when parents are teaching children language.
They will often use some filler and it depends on cultures.
Different cultures have different fillers.
So for example in the United States we tend to say uh or um.
In Asian cultures they will often say uh or oh.
But they're filling the same purpose. It's just the sound is different.
We will you alert a young child that what's about to come is a new word or something you should pay attention to.
So when I say um and then I say something new to a child they are trained that when I hear the um I should pay a special attention to it.
So it serves a purpose.
It also as adults serves a purpose to hold the floor.
So if I'm done speaking but I want to say something else.
If I pause you might think I'm done so you start.
But if I stop speaking go um you know it's I still want to speak.
So um's and uh is actually filled purposes the problem is when they get distracting.
So the goal is not eliminating them all.
In fact people who write screenplays for televisions and movies put filler words in because they learn that if they don't all the it doesn't sound real.
It sounds it sounds fake.
So again the goal is not eliminating these.
The goal is to reduce them so they're not distracting.
And the first and best way to do this is just to become aware.
You can't change something you don't know you're doing.
So how do we become aware?
Well you can record yourself and listen.
You can ask others to inform you.
You can actually buy apps.
There are apps for your phone that will actually keep track of the number of um's and uh's that you say.
So it actually uh law it actually keeps track and will buzz or beep every time you say one.
So there are tools that build some awareness.
So we just need to be aware of doing it and then we can begin to change it.
Okay very interesting.
Another question for you about the future of communication.
Do you think that the way that we communicate with each other is going to change?
I mean obviously it has changed a lot over the last whatever it is 20 30 years since the internet got involved.
And we started doing things like this talking through you know platforms like zoom or other other software.
And that's obviously changed the way we communicate quite a lot.
But what about the future Matt do you see any sort of things on the horizon?
Yeah so technology is absolutely going to impact and change the way that we communicate it already has.
The biggest change that I think is starting now I mean it started a little bit ago as the notion of generative AI.
Things like chat GPT and others.
This is fundamentally changing how we communicate how we craft what we say.
I am an optimist in terms of in general and so I think that this will bring to us some interesting and useful tools that we can use.
I am concerned I'm concerned about the truthfulness of what's there.
I am you know how we can manipulate some of the things.
But I do think for example for a non native speaker generative AI can be really helpful.
And I see this with my students where they will write something or prepare an outline or have a structure.
And then they'll run it through chat GPT not to see what's the right way but just to get help with some of the grammar or addiction or to give them different ideas and approaches to how they can use it or how they can say what they want to say.
I also encourage my students to use it for example before they have a Q&A session in my class.
Go to a generative AI say I'm giving a presentation on this.
What are three or four questions I might get and then practice answering the questions not to memorize the answers but just to get some of those repetitions.
So communication is ever changing.
Technology is highly involved in it and we need to be thinking about ways to address and adjust it to our communication to it so we can actually take the better way.
And then we can actually take the benefit and avoid some of the negative consequences.
Have you ever had a conversation with chat GPT or something similar and how did it go?
Yeah so on my podcast when chat GPT first started coming out we knew we wanted to do an episode on it and we were talking and all of a sudden we just said hey why don't we just interview it.
And this is before it had its own voice generated thing.
We would type in prompts and then we would get its output and run it through a text to voice thing and it was a fascinating conversation.
One of the questions I asked is will you replace the need for human communication and it came back unequivocally and said no.
The thing that humans have that that I is chat GPT speaking don't is the ability to connect.
Humans have this ability to connect and feel a sense of belonging that technology does not and perhaps never will and maybe hopefully never will.
The ability to connect in that way and I found that very insightful and actually very reassuring.
Yes, yeah absolutely.
Final thing so going back to your presentations and you know I'm flattering you again by saying how good they are.
We talked about learning from failure I'm just wondering if back in the day if you've ever had any failures have you ever had a presentation that went horribly wrong or something like that.
Again as a standard comedian I love stories of when people have a terrible time in front of an audience you know like all comedians have got stories of that and it's quite often quite interesting to listen to them.
Anyway have you ever sort of had a horrible presentation or something that went wrong all the time Luke all the time.
Yes things go wrong all the time I misspeak I say the wrong thing I misunderstand I answer a question I thought was asked when it really wasn't.
This happens to me quite frequently it happens to many people but I try to see them as opportunities to learn I try to adjust and adapt.
They are fewer and farther between than they used to be but we are all we all make mistakes we all have struggles.
The challenges to just persist and to reflect and learn from them you know at the end of every day I spend a minute thinking about one or two things that went well in my communication during the day and one or two things I'd like to strengthen on.
I actually document them and at the end of every week on Sundays I'll go back and look for the course of the whole week and I'll say okay this coming week I'm going to really try to work on this so I'm looking for patterns.
So it is through committed dedicated work on improving that I do think I've gotten better but it doesn't mean I'm still not making mistakes in issues.
Very interesting Matt's very encouraging as well and also reassuring in many ways and I think that I hope I don't believe my audience will really enjoy listening to you.
Thank you so much for your time just remind everyone again if they want to find out more about the things you have to say what should they do?
Excellent so I can be found most easily at Matt Abraham's dot com I have a whole bunch of resources there I host a podcast think fast talk smart for every episode we release English language learning content we take a noun a verb a descriptor and one idiom for every episode so if you're a non native speaker you can go check that out on a site called faster smarter dot IO you listen to the episode then you go find this and hopefully it will help.
So there are lots of things that I hope I'm doing to help people who are learning English and to help people communicate better in general.
Fantastic okay well brilliant I'll let you get back to your misty Californian morning.
Thank you and it was really really nice to speak to you thank you so much.
Look it was a true pleasure keep up the work you're doing it's very helpful thanks very much I will okay well have a lovely day you as well thank.
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Thank you. Okay so that was my conversation with Matt Abraham's and I want to say thanks again to Matt for taking the time to do that episode with me very nice to talk to him.
And so it's the next day now right the next day after I recorded that and I've just been through the episode edited it together put the video stuff together you know
edited the video and audio and stuff like that audio sounds great video looks good except my my bright red face.
If you've been watching the video you're probably I don't know you probably noticed that I shouldn't make a big deal out of it because it doesn't it doesn't matter at all but I couldn't help noticing that as I was editing it
it's like oh my god I was I just went bright red during that conversation we talked about it a bit of course you know and that's kind of like all part of what this was about right this episode was about that
these sorts of responses to all sorts of situations speaking situations it's just totally normal and human and natural to have certain responses
maybe I felt a little bit nervous during that conversation I mean I shouldn't I didn't really want to or didn't even think it was necessary but maybe I just thought that I don't know what it was but clearly I just felt some some
level of anxiety which turned into my face sort of glowing up like a beacon but anyway it doesn't matter I might talk about that a bit later about things like
things like blushing and other responses we have to little bits of social anxiety not the not the Matt gave me any reason to be anxious he was a very warm very relaxed and very
personable guest and it was a pleasure to talk to him now what I thought I would do here at the end of the episode is just kind of reflect on some of the things that Matt said
and maybe just kind of summarise some of those things because there was a lot of really really good useful advice in there right lots of stuff in fact that he talked about you know we went through certain points
like for example what were the what were the basic points that we went through anxiety and speaking right nervousness stress
we feel anxious when we are put on the spot and we have to speak spontaneously this could be in situations where we have to talk to a room full of people doing a presentation or when you're in a meeting and the boss asks you to give your opinion or you find
yourself in a lift with some of your managers or something and you have to kind of make a bit of small talk or many other different situations that we can just feel a lot of anxiety
and Matt talked about how this is a normal human response he mentioned the fight the fight or flight mechanism have you heard of this before fight or flight it's a sort of normal human response to moments of stress or moments that we perceive to be stressful or maybe threatening
and the idea that if we talk in front of everyone that we will expose ourselves and we feel naturally quite threatened by this and the body has a natural response which is to go into the fight or flight mechanism basically your body is like right come on then get ready to fight get ready to defend yourself
and flight means running away okay to fly I mean not literally fly with wings it's just another way of saying run away
like when Gandalf in Lord of the Rings because of course everyone you're all familiar with the with the entire script of the Lord of the Rings films
well he's just been when he's about to fall into that chasm because of the big bellrog he turns to them he's like hanging onto the cliff and he says fly you fools
meaning run away okay random Lord of the Rings reference what happened I don't know some of you will be like yeah right got it anyway fight or flight so you basically your body is like right get ready for a fight or get ready to run away
one or one of the other survival thing isn't it and so you your body gets flooded with adrenaline your heart starts beating faster and other things happen like you can get sweaty palms you know the palms of your hands
you can get other things you what else happens you start to get hot you might go red in the face because of all the blood pumping through your system
you might get a lot of nervous energy those sorts of things those are natural responses and so Matt talked about the importance of doing things like
using breathing and breathing in the right way and considering your posture and doing things like holding onto a cold bottle of water because it can help to reduce your body temperature little tricks like that which can help you manage your anxiety
preparation also helps a bit which to manage your anxiety he talked about our emphasis on perfection the fact that we all
impose this pressure on ourselves to be perfect we want everything to be done perfectly okay but this is not always the most useful thing that we can do why do we put so much pressure on ourselves how can we avoid putting so much pressure on ourselves
and Matt advises accepting imperfections or mistakes and focusing instead of focusing on being perfect focusing on making genuine meaningful human connections so this is basically connection not perfection where have we heard that before
of course we've heard that from all ears English this is their mantra and it's true we need to try and remember that don't worry too much about being perfect all the time instead focus on making a human connection
now you might think to yourself but Luke I'm learning English I want to be able to do it correctly which is of course absolutely fair you know it's a reasonable thing to do you know you study English you study the grammar and the vocabulary and the pronunciation and stuff like that
so that you can speak and use the language in the way that it's supposed to be used without making glaring errors or without you know without without making your bad impression or without being incoherent right
but you've got to keep these things in balance it's good to work on your accuracy and work on your grammatical and phonological accuracy and to practice to get that level of control over English the syntax the Lexus the phonology all of that stuff it's good to practice and improve your ability to do all those things as much as possible
but then when you're in a real world situation you do also have to learn to kind of put that stuff away you know and try not to let that blind you or try not to let that affect you too much and you have to I guess you have to think to yourself right I've done my homework I've done my preparation I've done all my control practice I've studied the grammar and stuff but now I need to actually
I need to focus on actually communicating with these people or with this person and making a connection with them so I've got to try and put the grammar to one side now and trust and hope that the control practice I've done is going to pay off now
but we shouldn't be overly distracted by a sort of desire to be perfect in the language that we're using
right instead we should try to focus on making connections with the people we're talking to because ultimately this is the most important thing
Matt talked about mindset so just our attitude the way we think about speaking situations and many of us view speaking situations as very high stakes
right high stakes so you stand to win or lose a huge amount like your whole reputation is on the line or something like that that we put tremendous value on these situations
and as a result you know the anxiety levels start to to go up so how can we actually change the way we think about these things
or Matt encourages us to shift our mindset shift the way that we see these things completely and instead of seeing these things as like high risk situations or big challenges
we should see them as sort of like opportunities really opportunities to share ideas with people to connect with others rather than seeing them as a performance
really good bit of advice and you know I have to think about these things we all have to think about these things
Matt thinks about these things and uses these techniques himself and he's been doing this for decades which is probably one of the reasons why he is so good at what he does
right he certainly kind of practices what he preaches meaning that he uses all these techniques and has applied all of this advice and knowledge to himself
and the results are that he is very sort of clear and engaging and warm and pleasant to listen to and informative and useful
and he gets straight to the point you know he's a very effective communicator
so I have to think about these things too that sometimes for example if I'm talking to a classroom of people
or if I'm doing this if I'm talking to a camera on my own in my room and thinking to myself right the stuff that's being recorded right now on this device in front of me
this is going to be converted into a thing that will go online that tens of thousands of people are going to watch
right and you start to get into that mindset of feeling judged you know you become aware that people are going to be judging me
and what are they going to say about me and does you know what about the way I look today and what are people going to say you know you start to get caught in that kind of cycle of thinking
but instead of seeing this as a performance I have to remember what I'm doing which is that I'm communicating these ideas to you
and that's got to be the primary thought in my mind that's my primary motivation is to get across my ideas and focus on sharing ideas with you
and forget about the idea of this being a performance okay
Matt also talked about the idea of mistakes and he called them mist takes instead as if it's like you're making a film
and you do one version and the director says okay let's try that again take two and you get a chance to do it again in a slightly different way
that we should see mistakes as opportunities to try it again to improve to do it differently
and this of course as we know relates to language learning because we have to try and see mistakes as being opportunities to learn
opportunities to try it again and get it better and no one ever got anything right first time you know
so you can't really expect to just I mean the classic the classic mistake where people study English study study study
until they feel like right now I'm ready to actually use the language and then they expect themselves to just use it flawlessly
doesn't like that doesn't work like that you have to you have to make loads of mistakes first and learn from them and see them as chances
rather than see them as these terrible things that you have to avoid because if you make a mistake you lose face
not really it's never really as bad as that
listening Matt talked about the importance of listening is this all about just being a better speaker sometimes in communication
we focus too much on ourselves and our productive speaking right but actually a successful interaction is largely about listening
and we do a lot more listening than we do speaking in fact so we've got to remember the value of listening
this is crucial effective communication involves active listening and understanding others and active listening really relates to
really trying to pay attention not just to the words that someone is saying but the intention behind those words
where are they really coming from what are they really trying to say what is the bottom line that that's what Matt says
what's the bottom line of what this person is saying so the bottom line this idea comes from the idea of the balance sheet
in accounting right in business
you've got a profit and loss account and basically the bottom line refers to the profit that is made by a company
after all its business has been done and the bottom line is ultimately the most important thing for a business to consider
yes so this is the bottom line but also the bottom line now has sort of become an idiom to mean the ultimate sort of
main most important factor so we have to just think about what's the bottom line of what this person is saying
what's the real intention of feeling behind these words what does someone really want is this person looking for a solution
for my advice or do they want my my sympathy do they want to be reassured you know so it's really about paying attention
not just to the things that people are saying but the intention behind what they're saying and active listening also
is about showing the other person that you're listening so it's no good actually it's
that you've got to perform the thing that you're doing as well I mean I said it's not a performance but
hmm how can I put this so if you're listening to someone and you're really paying attention that's fine
okay but that other person has to know that you're listening as well
and this is where you use your body language you've got to really sort of like lean in
pay attention to the person make eye contact with them obviously there's cultural things related to eye contact
but in any case you've got to show that person that you're listening that person has to be really aware that you're listening
and you do that by you know telling them in nonverbal ways that you're listening so you know you make eye contact as much as it's appropriate
you nod your head you know you make all the right body language and then you respond to the things they've said
paraphrasing for example repeating back to them the the point that they've just made
so that's the importance of listening and then Matt also talked about structure
and this doesn't mean grammatical structure but just sort of like structuring our behavior
when we communicate and using certain structures can really help us to
I guess break through that slightly chaotic feeling which can happen when we get into that anxious state
right of oh god what am I going to say oh I'm going to say it wrong
breaking through that with a kind of dependable simple easy to follow structure that you use every time
right on when you have to deliver information
and Matt's favourite one was what so what now what?
okay what so what now what so the what is basically what what was that about and I'll do a what so what now what in a moment
but what meaning what is this about or what what was that about so what means why is it important
and now what is basically what can I what can you do what can we do what can I do with that information
so what is it why is it important what can we do with it okay so essentially what so what now what the what is that
that was Matt Abraham's a expert in communication telling us about ways in which we can become better communicators
especially in spontaneous speaking situations this is obviously important for everyone
I mean it's clear isn't it he's really nailed it he's really nailed this very important thing that affects all of us
it's obvious why it's important to us because we all have to deal with these situations and we care a lot about them
and now what what can you do with this information well you can go and try and apply some of those ideas
you can actually try and apply them in your first language but also in situations when you use English
and by I guess breaking through some of that anxiety of changing your mindset into a more positive growth-oriented mindset
when you speak English you can give yourself a chance you know you can kind of create conditions for yourself
in which you are able to give your English a chance and allow all the work you've done already to kind of shine through
okay I wanted to talk about blushing because it happened to me
yeah I think one of the things that happened there is that it was the evening okay
and I had kind of been running around all evening I've gone to pick up my son and then been stressing out
trying to get the dinner ready everything sort of had to happen all at the right time
and then I rushed over here to get ready for the interview and then during the interview I was like
okay I don't know why I just bit of anxiety it's more of it was excitement as much as anything else
but I do blush I just it happens to me just all the time and it's always happens to me
and I don't really care to be honest I don't really care anymore I mean it's it's slightly annoying but you know
what you're going to do there's not really anything I can do about it except doing the things that Matt suggested
which I've always tried to do breathing trying to take the right mindset not taking
not taking myself too seriously you know but I've always lived with that as I said at school
but also as a teacher and I remember I had a class of students once and we went to the pub afterwards
and a couple of the girls in the class came up to me and they told me they they were one of them was Japanese
one of them was Korean right and they were like oh why do you blush so much and I was like I don't know
it's just I don't know why it just happens to me maybe it's my complexion or something like that
I don't know I find some people blush more easily than others
anyway I don't know and I was like yeah it's a bit embarrassing and they said oh no we found it really adorable
we found it really cute which obviously made me blush as well but they said to me you know what we we actually
kept trying to make you blush during lessons that we would ask you questions
we'd ask you questions to try and make you blush and it would always work
so they would ask me quit I don't know what I can't remember what they would ask me about now but they'd probably ask me some
some personal question or something then they then it have one fun watching me blush
but anyway does it happen to you does it does it happen to you at all
do you ever kind of go a bit red in the face and as I said before the stupid thing about it is when you start to blush
you know that it's happening you can feel you can feel your face warming up
and then that doesn't help because then you like the fact that you're blushing makes you blush even more
because you know oh god I'm blushing answer oh god oh dear I'm blushing again
and then that makes it worse so you know I thought that I would say a few things about
blushing just in case it happens to you too maybe this can help
and I actually I asked Microsoft co-pilot for some suggestions
so this is another piece of generative AI software that's available
this is Microsoft co-pilot which actually uses chat GPT4 or a version of chat GPT4 to generate its responses
so you got chat GPT3 which is the free one and chat GPT4 which is one you pay for
and then there's a version of chat GPT4 which is used for Microsoft co-pilot
and you can just use Microsoft co-pilot free just google Microsoft co-pilot or search Bing for Microsoft co-pilot
and you can just use it it's virtually the same as chat GPT works in the same way
so I asked co-pilot one of the things I like about Microsoft co-pilot is that it gives you references
for the information it's given you it gives you a number of references at the bottom
website links where it got the information it's presenting which I like
I like the fact that it's giving you references chat GPT doesn't do that
so this is what I asked co-pilot basically I said I can't remember the prompt
it was something like can you suggest some ways to deal with blushing in public
and this is what co-pilot came up with
blushing during public speaking can be quite common and sometimes distressing
however there are strategies you can employ to manage it effectively
first of all acceptance and perspective
embrace blushing as a natural physiological response
understand it happens to many people even experienced speakers
so basically it's just normal it just means I'm a human being
so there you go just in case you needed any confirmation that I was a human
and not some sort of super advanced AI powered Android or some
or a kind of AI generated English teacher not yet that's not me yet
but of course you know the thing is about that is that in the future when AI
when generative AI is really advanced it will it will do things like that
it will when I don't know how many years time this will be
let's say in 10 years time when you can just go on to you know teacher
AIteacher.com and where you've you've got your account
and you've designed your own teacher so that they look a certain way
they have a certain accent and they wear certain clothes and blah blah blah
they've you know when you've designed your teacher
and you go into the your portal in your virtual classroom and you can just
talk to your teacher and you've decided that you wanted to look like Luke
from Luke's English podcast and maybe you even included blush
response you've ticked the box that says blush response
I'm sure that AI eventually will will be able to do all these things
right it'll it'll make it's it'll make it's how are we going to call them
it's avatars it'll make its avatars as human as possible I suppose if we want them to be
and that no doubt will in include some sort of blush simulator
plug in for it anyway so it's a natural human response so there you go
just means I'm a human and next bit of advice is don't let it distract you
if you're not bothered by your blushing the chances are the audience won't be
either so I don't know if I'm doing that to be honest by talking about it
by addressing it directly does this this probably means that everyone's
going to now think about it a lot more than they should and they'll be writing
comments about it like they do about my beard which is kind of you know
probably because I talk about if I just never mentioned it people would probably
wouldn't really talk about it that much but obviously I I bring so much attention
to it but anyway I've never talked about blushing before have I really
it's never really much of a problem it only seems to happen on the podcast
in the evening when I do podcasts in the evening and when when the sun has gone
down and when I've got a light shining on me so I have one of those I can't
show it because it's bloat is connected but I've got one of those like
those LED bright white lights and it's a bit too bright it like shines in my
face and like reflects off my face and probably lights up my it exacerbates
any kind of facial blushing that happens at all it's like really an
oppressively bright light it's not the most flattering light in the world
so anyway how did I end up talking about the light I don't know but that's
one of the reasons it doesn't happen a lot but it happens yeah in the evening
for some reason if I do a podcast in the evening and I've got the bright light
in my face like for example when I spoke to Steve Kaufman same exact thing
happened if you see that video I'm already in the face in that one as well
maybe it's when I speak to older experienced well known experienced
older gentleman from North America who have a reputation for being sort of
experts in their field related to communication it's only in those
situations that I blush I don't know why now when I spoke to Lucy from
English with Lucy I also blushed in that one because I was aware that you
know this is English with Lucy with 10 million followers or whatever it is on
YouTube well whoa anyway mindset shift this is the next thing that Microsoft
Copilot came up with avoid panic basically don't panic if you panic
about blushing it might actually increase the amount of blushing which is
easier said than done you know it's definitely easier said than done next
thing is to normalize it okay just it's just normal remind yourself that
blushing isn't a big deal it's just the way your face reacts and it
doesn't define your professionalism and you know again this is another
reason why I love audio content because you just don't need to worry
about all these peripheral unimportant frankly quite trivial details
which I have decided to spend ages talking about anyway what else focus
on content remember that audiences care more about your message than the
color of your face and I just want to remind some people in the comments
section who this does not apply to because there are some people out there
who for some reason the color or condition of my face is the most
important thing for example whether I have a beard or no or no beard that's
not important don't worry about all that stuff okay just let's focus on
the things that are being said not the way the chin looks where those
things are coming from so focus on content other people see you from the
outside and their attention is on what you're saying the vast majority of
the time humor and self awareness if you feel comfortable with the
audience playfully acknowledge your blushing it can help ease nervousness
and make it less noticeable that's hopefully what I did in this
episode most people won't pay a much attention to minor blushing breathing
and relaxation practice deep slow breathing it signals your brain to relax
this thing about breathing is actually a good one and we know don't we
that we have to breathe from our diaphragm which is that sort of large
muscle inside under our lungs which goes down and expands when we take deep breaths
and we have to breathe deeply sort of letting our stomach kind of expand that's
when you get those deep breaths but I saw Matt Abraham's mentioning breathing
in another episode of someone else's show or YouTube video or something and
he was saying that actually when when you're deep breathing the way to do it is
to exhale because once you start with the exhale start with the exhale
which allows you to then take a deep breath so that's a good thing to remember
you start with an exhale then deep and then breathe in but you know to an
extent there's no escaping sometimes there's no escaping those moments when
you feel a little bit nervous I think the main thing is not to worry about
it too much no and if you need to kind of take a deep breath you just take a deep
breath everyone knows what it's like it's fine regulate temperature another bit
of advice stay cool heat can trigger blushing so dressing layers to adjust
if needed basically in the middle of your presentation does whip your top
off to reveal a little skimpy t-shirt that won't be embarrassing at all
eye contact and makeup maintain eye contact with your audience it shifts
focus away from your face alright and consider using makeup to minimize
visible redness if it bothers you that I can't do that I can't do that because
I'd have to be an expert I have to be an absolute expert at makeup to be able to
cover up my blushing I think it would be obvious or just you know simply wear
a mask which is not that's not constructive advice Luke the main thing is
it's fine don't worry about it happens to me happens to loads of people if
happens to you too welcome to the club okay you're at your part of a
community an illustrious exclusive club of fellow human beings and if you
don't blush how does public speaking or sort of social anxiety around
speaking how does it affect you leave your comments in the comments section
I'd love to know how does that sort of situation affect you what happens to
you when you are put on the spot and you have to speak spontaneously whether
it's in English or in your native language and all these responses are
completely natural most people won't judge you based on it we normally will
judge ourselves a bit more harshly than others and that's when the problems
start when we start to beat ourselves up or panic about it or judge ourselves
too harshly that's when things become a problem really we need to just give
ourselves a break and just focus on the message focus on making the connection
and just focus on the enthusiasm that you have for your subject okay you can
find some links and stuff a lot of that information will be on the page for
this episode on my website including summaries of the things that Matt Abrams
was talking about links to his podcast which is very interesting indeed
and you know one of the things that I really like about Matt Abrams is stuff
is that it's all based on research it's based on academic research so
there's real substance to the things that he says and the advice he gives and
in episodes of his podcast he talks to academics from different fields you
know like neurologists and all sorts of other people he talks to them and
draws conclusions from the fit their findings in order to make more
comments and give more tips about a successful communication very interesting
to listen to him so you'll find links to his podcast a link to his book which
is called think faster talk smarter that's the book and think fast talk smart
is the podcast as well and you'll also find a link to his Stanford graduate
business school presentation which is the one that's got 34 million views
and the one where he only goes once for a split second I'm sure he does it
more than that actually on that subject it's impressive that he can do that
but I should say that I think that that presentation and in fact a lot of the
things frankly that he says in this episode I think those are things he said
lots and lots of times before if you think about it it's stuff that he knows
incredibly well he's written a book on the subject he's done like many many
many different presentations and interviews where he's given the same points
so he's very very well practiced at giving those points and when I asked him
about something outside of that he did to be fair make some of those little
noises like noises you know because that's just a normal feature of
spontaneous speech and when you look at for example you know those keynote
speeches by Steve Jobs or Ted Talks those are not very realistic or fair
representations of spoken English okay and those sorts of things do set a
slightly unrealistic precedent for what natural spontaneous speech is
because like Steve Jobs doing a presentation that is not spontaneous speech
he has he prepared those presentations down to the minute detail and did them
again and again and again okay and that's how he was able to deliver that
information so smoothly slow so flawlessly and it's true for the people who do
Ted Talks and those other big high high profile presentations they don't
go um and uh because they have practiced and practiced and practiced those
presentations again and again same thing is true for stand-up comedy specials
when you see Ricky Gervais on Netflix and it looks like it's all spontaneous
it looks like he's just giving a sort of stream of consciousness monologue
being naturally funny with a joke every 10 seconds but these done that show he's
done that hour or that two hour show again and again and again in different
cities in different countries again and again and again before filming it
plus the video is edited those Ted Talk videos are edited as well to clean
them up to to make them as sort of perfect as possible so don't judge yourself
too harshly and don't use those sorts of standards they don't set that
kind of standard for yourself when it comes to just speaking in a more
spontaneous way and also realize the the value of preparation and practice
and how that how much that can help okay I'm going to end the episode now thank
you so much for listening thank you for watching everybody have a lovely day
afternoon morning evening night and I will speak to you again on this podcast
soon but for now it's time to say goodbye bye bye
bye
thanks for listening to Luke's English podcast for more information visit
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