Have you ever noticed how video games get harder just when you're getting good?
Or how Netflix or YouTube always suggest the perfect next show or video to watch?
That's artificial intelligence, AI, at work.
Welcome to AI for Kids, the podcast where we explore AI together with your parents and teachers.
We'll look at how it works in simple ways with real examples.
And we'll talk honestly about the worries like safety, privacy and what it means for the future, so everyone feels informed.
Are you ready to get started?
Let's discover AI together.
Hey kids, welcome back to AI for Kids podcast.
A lot of adults are kind of freaking out about AI, but today's guest she, decided to actually do something about it.
Dani Ramadani is a mom of two, a Harvard grad, a tech expert, and she built a whole website called AI PTO to help families figure out AI together.
She also just wrote a chapter in a book called AI Everywhere about what it's like to raise kids right now, which I cannot imagine.
I am an auntie, but not a parent.
So Donnie, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Amber.
It's really quite an interesting time to be a parent and a child the first generation, I'd say, to have gone through this together.
Yeah.
That is so real.
A lot of firsts are coming up right now.
But before we get started, I would love to jump into a game of this or that.
I ask that you only say the answer.
Do not give any explanations.
It's going to be hard, but are you ready?
I'll try my best.
All right.
Robots or pets?
Okay.
Rules or creativity?
Creativity.
AI that helps you learn or AI that just does the work for you?
Helps you learn every time.
Every time.
I love that.
Talk to a chat bot or talk to a parent about technology?
Talk to a parent.
Make something or fix something?
Can I say both?
Sure.
You've done so well up to this point.
You get a chance to say both.
And last but not least, books or TikTok?
Books, 100%.
I love that.
There's also book talk kids in case you're into both.
But okay, I know this is going to be a great conversation to honey.
Let's just get into it.
So you went from working at a huge consulting firm and inside government building and a parenting app or parenting tool for AI.
What happened?
Like, where did this come from?
How did you get there?
As a mom, I honestly start when I become a mom and everything shifted.
I work in a leave and breathe technology at work.
But when I come home I feel unprepared to have these actual conversations around AI with my family, my own kids.
It started when last year I was using one of the AI tools. to plan our summer vacation.
And my daughter, a curious kid, just hover around my phone and ask, mommy, what's Gemini?
Who are you texting?
And I was like, oh, it's an AI.
Didn't really think through that, of course.
It just comes out of a mom's brain.
And then she's like, what's AI?
And it's kind of like a robot.
And then that's like the best answer I could provide at that moment.
And I realized, oh my gosh, that was not a good answer.
She moved on after that.
But I truly felt like this is not how I envisioned my first conversation around AI with my kid.
And she's like At that point it was still in kindergarten, so I was like I can't explain the technology set.
I need an actual kids-friendly language to explain to my kids, and it should come naturally.
So if I myself, who feels like I use this technology quite often and had a good feel on how to build with this technology, can't explain it to my own child, the gap is real and I need to do something about it.
And actually I went down a rabbit hole of finding resources, not around AI skills.
Okay.
Like around conversation around language that parents can use in the dinner table.
And I really couldn't find a lot.
It's either the fear mongering, like AI is dangerous, blah, blah, blah.
Or like AI, you got to learn it now.
We're going to like you know, not be part of the future.
So it's also like this hype and fear mongering.
And I feel like parents need to have something that is more in between.
And my husband pointed out to me like, if you can't find anything like, why can't you just start it yourself?
And I was like, you know what, maybe I should.
So that's the long story short of why I started.
I love that.
And for parents who are listening, as your kids are listening to this.
Dahani has a background in this and also struggles.
So you're not alone.
And Dahani, when your own kids started running into AI and I know you mentioned the story of like your daughter looking over your shoulder and your husband thinking and helping you think through actually building something.
What was that specific moment where you were like all right, I need to build something new for this.
Was it that you couldn't find any resources out there or was there another moment?
Yeah, I think it's... was a good like week or two, right?
Just trying to find resources and being able to find, like actual conversations and script that that you can use immediately.
And I, I, I just couldn't find it.
It's either like a bunch of reports that is provided by research organizations or companies trying to promote their trainings, and there's a lot of, you know, training for parents or also training for teachers and kids.
But again it's like they're trying to tell you how to use AI and I think The idea should be how should you talk about it?
How should you think about it?
What is right for your family?
And we don't really talk about that piece as much.
It's really oftentimes very prescriptive.
100%.
Even right now, like everyone, to your point, learning about this stuff is reading research papers from OpenAI or these other big tech companies.
But there's not a place that's like translating this for families and kids.
And I want to get into what you actually built, because I want kids and parents and families to be able to use this stuff.
Can you explain AI PTO to a kid?
Imagine I'm in middle school and just found your website.
What is it and why should I care?
Yeah.
So the idea is, you know how you have a PTO at your school?
I love that name.
The way I think about it, AIP2 stands for Parent Tech and Opportunity, because I think there is an opportunity out there that we can think about.
It doesn't mean you always have to use AI, but it means understanding it, being able to shape it and being able to be aware and make choices.
And I'm really big on agency.
And that's why I think it's about resources where you can make your own choices.
And you use the word think, and I know you also created something called the think framework.
Can you walk us through it right now?
Pretend like we're a family at dinner, trying think framework for the first time.
Can you provide like a real example step-by-step, of how I would work through that at my dinner table?
I love that.
So. there's a lot of framework out there.
Let's try to simplify it with think and talk.
So think here is take time before you believe, right?
So whenever you want to start using a tool to find an answer or simply helping you with homework or planning like myself, planning a trip you take time before you believe.
You want to...
Understand that AI can sound very confident.
They're trained to do so.
They're very good at language, but can do that while being completely wrong or half wrong, or some parts is wrong.
So always try to take time before you believe completely.
And H is how.
How does it work?
So you need to get curious.
And how did they get to that answer, right?
So first, take time for your belief.
And then how?
How did they get to this answer?
Do you think they have all the facts?
What might be missing when they answer?
You know, what is... They have a history project.
They give you an answer.
Mesopotamia was last seen in whatever year.
And then how did you get to this answer?
Do they provide you sources?
They walk through their thought process in tools and how they go about this.
And then intention.
I think it's really important when you understand how it works, then you can go back.
Why are you using AI right now?
Specifically because it will then define how you're going to use that information.
Are you trying to learn?
Are you trying to create?
Or, you know, sometimes you're just using A to skip the hard part.
No shame, because sometimes, you know, you just want to get things fast.
But be aware of your own intention of using it.
And then N is never share information. secrets or important information.
The way I think about this is when you're asking something, you don't go.
Hey, find me the best path for our family to look at the best schools in your neighborhood.
You don't go say my family of four living in this neighborhood.
You know you don't provide your personal information.
You can shape your question in a way that is objective and doesn't provide that either.
The question is you.
Something I try when I ask questions or use, I try to help it role play.
Imagine you are something, right?
And that you are of this age and then try to figure out this path But you don't tell that it's you.
You don't say that what's your name.
You don't actually say your age.
You provide a persona to them, like what you want them to think through as.
And you can even make it think as if it's not you, right?
You're trying to figure out a way to develop this best recipe that you want to give for your favorite person's birthday.
Then you say, hey, imagine you are the chef of a really famous cooking school.
And then you're trying to find a recipe that could be done by someone with little to no experience in cooking, right?
It changes the way it's not, it doesn't provide them the information about yourself.
And then last but not least is keep your brain in charge.
Why?
I think it's hard sometimes when you use AI tools, especially beginning to use it, you can get dependent on it.
So you need to ensure that you keep yourself, you keep your brain at the driver's seat.
Understand, so let's say they gave you an answer, you don't have to take it.
Whatever they provide, it's not prescriptive, it's not always right.
You can choose and evaluate their answer and also understand if I were a parent.
If they give me an answer, I try to go back and say how would I say this in my own words?
That keeps me in charge.
Because then if they say like the recipe example, right?
And I was like, oh, okay.
They tell me to create a carrot cake.
I'm like, oh, how would I do this?
Maybe I don't really like carrots, or I know that I don't have carrots at home right now and I need to make this tomorrow.
So I'm trying to rethink how would I do this myself if it were me.
You know, so you know how like, how would Beyonce do it?
Then you're like, how would I do it?
Give it your name.
How would Donnie do it?
That's how you can keep yourself in charge.
Again, that's think, take time before you believe.
H is how, understand how it gets to that point.
I is intention, ensure that you have a clear purpose and when you use it.
And never share anything, any private information and keep your brain, yourself in charge.
I love that.
And the fact that you referenced my all-time favorite artist Beyonce, makes it even that much better.
But no, seriously, I love the Think framework.
And even for myself.
One of the things I don't think about as much as I should, especially when it comes to Kiss, is they should also like do the role playing, like most prompts should have a role identified, but I didn't think about that.
To help kids also not share personal information.
I think that's like brilliant in the way that you've set that up.
And parents will make sure to share all of this in the show notes.
So if someone wanted to try an activity or thing on AIPTO this week, what's the first thing you would tell them to do?
Hi, friends.
AI is super cool, but sorry, it's not perfect.
And we're still learning about some of the problems and dangers it can have.
That's why it's so important to explore AI with a parent, teacher, or guardian to keep things safe.
AI is amazing, but your safety always comes first.
Ready to dive in together?
Let's go.
I think they should try to find something that is within their life first.
Like, don't try something fancy.
Don't do, like, create an app to solve, like, hunger.
Like, that's a bit, you know, hard.
You need to find something that, what is the friction point in your life?
Or maybe what's your biggest technology use?
I would recommend either of those two approach.
My prediction point was I hate cooking.
That's why I like recipes, like meal planning.
I hate it.
That's when, how can I use these tools to help me the most?
If you use technology the most, watch something, maybe figure out a way to audit yourself.
And like, why are you watching certain things?
Is it the algorithm pushing you to do that?
Is it, Because you actually like it.
Being able to sort of I don't know if kids know the word, but metacognition, like being able to think about how you think, is really key.
And it's something I'm trying to practice.
And that really starts from those two simple things.
Like what is your friction point?
What's hard for you?
And then what do you use the most?
I love that.
I often, when I'm talking to adults about this, I say the same thing.
It's like what is the thing that's causing you the most pain, or something that's quick, that if you fix it will make your life happier.
Focus on that first.
And I love what you're saying there.
So it is time for tech trivia.
Are you ready?
You have to answer very fast, meaning either a one word answer or a one sentence answer, depending on how long it is.
And remember to keep it in the mindset of how you would say it for a fifth grader.
Are you ready?
I know a lot of pressure there.
Yes, let's try.
All right.
So true or false, AI always gets the right answer.
False.
They can sound very confident and be completely wrong.
1000%.
What's a deepfake?
A deepfake is when a tool can create a fake video or image of anything truly and make it look like they are doing or have done or said something that they've never actually did.
And kids, that's so relevant right now.
And parents, we've been talking about this in a newsletter.
So make sure you haven't checked it out.
Air for Kids Weekly, we talk about a lot about deep fakes and what's happening across the world right now.
Now, what does AI bias mean?
That means AI carries similar preferences around information or even decisions that, whoever the creator is, or the base of their information that they're trained on.
So let's say, if they're trained on American data, then it'll be biased on how Americans think or what American data looks like.
If they're trained in Chinese data, then we'll be biased on how the Chinese data think or prefer and whatnot.
So it's really interesting.
It amplifies whatever its input.
So really important to understand again the how in the think framework, like how do they get to this?
Are they referring to the right websites when they create resources?
Are they referring to like a fake-ish website?
Because you can.
There is a thing you know in websites before now I feel old like SEOs.
Now they have similar tools like that for websites to get found or get referred by AI sources.
Like it's Pretty crazy.
So it doesn't mean whatever they put as a resource is the best.
It just means they have the highest ranking on how AI finds sources.
That's something that's so sad right now is a lot of people don't realize that there's ways for people to influence how their websites get to the top, especially in AI search.
So I'm glad you called that out.
Last quick question, and then I want to dig into deepfakes a little bit more.
True or false, everything you type into AI is private. uh-uh um so as much as as much as they say it is please please don't do not say let's say let's say they do keep it private right they store it but in in some echo chamber it's so easy to hack information out the amount of time i'd say if you were a parent or soon if you have your own email like It means it's out there somewhere.
Somebody have your email address.
Have you ever received a spam email?
That means your information is out there.
To believe that a company can just like be so secure and not face any hacks is just too naive.
So really do not.
And even if let's say, yes, they're perfect, they can store it.
Again, they will use your information to train and improve your model.
They're not going to share your face.
Like you take a picture and then it's, they make a fun filter, right?
Like now I'm a cute dog and have been able to change my sound a certain way.
Sure, they're not sharing your picture quote unquote to other people, but they could use your image to create new images, like an AI avatar that just look like you and you can figure out how.
And that's because of that.
Like the more picture you send them, they use it to improve models.
And their model then can be used to generate something new.
And their defense, quote unquote, this is not you.
This is a compilation of images, then that creates an aggregate or whatever type it is profile to their new avatar.
That is wild.
So that's interesting to me for a lot of different reasons, because I, as a kid, may just want the puppy dog ears on my face, not realizing that there's an AI that's learning from me, right.
And learning about my face and putting it into the training data.
So when we talk about deep fakes, if a kid found out that someone made a fake video of them using AI, what do they actually do?
This is in the news so much right now.
Kids, I've seen articles for kids as young as seven years old creating deep fakes and sharing them.
What should a kid do if that's happened to them?
How do they navigate this?
Yeah, so thankfully there is an initiative called Take It Down.
So what Take It Down does, it's run by NCMEC.
So that is the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
They can help you, anybody actually, if you want to help your friend, like it...
The way it works is you upload your picture.
It doesn't actually take your picture.
It creates a digital fingerprint of your image that can be detected, sort of like what features and whatnot.
And then that will be sent to the social media companies or the companies participating in Take It Down Act.
And those companies will take it down.
So it is by law, it is an act, a federal act.
So please, please, if that happens, go to this website, follow it.
And there's help desk there as well.
So if you don't know how to do it, do not feel scared.
Ask your parents as well.
Nobody will shame you.
This is truly such a horrific use of technology.
And you're not alone.
Thank you for saying that, because a lot of kids I've read stories about kids feeling like they have to move to different schools and things like that
And I'm so glad that that law passed so that you all can take it down.
So kids, make sure you write down that website.
If this has happened to you or your friend, like Donnie was saying, make sure you do that, because we want to make sure you all are safe.
And Donnie, for kids listening right now, I want to dream a little.
They're in middle school or whatever grade they're in right now and they're ready to take on this AI world.
What's one thing you want them to know that most adults may not think to tell them?
Well, it's something I say to my child is you matter more in this world than you realize.
You have agency.
You can choose to shape it.
When they say it's doom and gloom or it's one way or another, don't take it to heart.
People say they can predict the future.
I can't say how many people have been wrong about that.
But one thing is true.
We all matter.
You matter.
So be confident about your own capability, your own thought, your own experiences.
It is a unique experience.
Your view is unique.
You can and should have a seat at the table of your own future.
I absolutely love that.
And I like to always leave this last question with everyone on the show.
Anything you may have wanted to state today or say today that you didn't get a chance to say, feel free to spend time now talking through it.
OK, I'm a humanist, so I believe that.
Whatever the future it is, we all have a responsibility to shape it, especially around AI.
Take charge with your own future.
Don't feel hopeless.
Don't feel apathy.
Find what you're passionate about.
And it doesn't have to be about AI, but it's important that you understand how it impacts your life.
The key point is start being aware of the technology around you.
In the future, maybe they're not going to call it AI or whatever it is.
Just be aware of that and ensure that you have a choice.
When there's things that put in within your school.
That's a default.
You don't actually have to accept that.
You can advocate for yourself.
For parents as well, like advocate for your child, what's right for them.
If they are having too much screen time at school or you think they're not giving kids more training around literacy, around AI, push for it.
There's something that all of us can do if we're doing it together.
I absolutely love that.
And if there's one thing you would want a listener to do after this episode ends, what is it?
We will, of course, make sure they have access to AIparenttechcom and your AI Everywhere book and the show notes and share all those resources.
But what should I do after this episode ends?
I think you should start feeling more hopeful and think about how you would like the future of AI to be.
And that should help you figure out how your relationship with AI should be.
Because oftentimes I realize that it's a default Gemini answer question.
ChatGPT creates this.
And it's almost like a default.
And you don't think about it anymore.
So take a step back.
And if you were not forced to use anything, were not told to do anything, how would you like your relationship with this technology, or technology in general should be?
And write it down and figure out ways to do that.
For myself, is having a more real relationship at home and being able to call out our technology use explicitly.
So it's not that we are completely removing technology in our house, but we want technology use to be explicit.
We want technology use to be intentional.
And with intentional use, you'll find a lot more impact because technology should be a tool for you.
So you should be in charge of how it's being used.
And that's such a great way to wrap the show.
Kids, I hope you heard loudly and clearly from Donnie.
This is all in you all's hands.
Donnie, thank you so much for spending time with us today.
Kids, make sure you stay curious.
Keep the critical thinking.
Donnie has gave you a think method to help you do that when you are working with AI.
And we will see you in a couple of weeks.
Thanks, Donnie.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us as we explore the fascinating world of artificial intelligence.
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