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Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation.
Jemai, thanks for joining us today.
Yo, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited. I was like, if I can be on any podcast, it certainly will be negotiating anything.
And I want to be the person who, when people listen to Negotiate Anything, they'd be like, yeah, I remember that episode with Jermay.
I didn't know what I was to talk about because I don't know what I can negotiate, but we're going to find out today.
That's right. I'm pumped.
I've been pumped about this for a long time.
So how would you start us off by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Yeah, most def. So hey, y 'all.
My name is Jermay Jackson Gadsden, born and raised DC girl, although I have called New York proudly home for about eight years.
Let's see a little bit about me.
I went to Howard University, double majored in English and Greek.
Fun fact, I was one of two black people who could speak ancient Greek.
So very fun, happy hours, very fun, happy hours.
But I really, I fell in love with the classics.
I loved storytelling as a child.
I'm a classical pianist and also an actor.
And so I always loved this idea of using the arts for storytelling because ultimately you can take those stories and you can understand what is happening in a culture at that time based upon the literature.
So at the time I was like, okay, well, what am I going to do?
I graduated. Mom was like, go to law school.
Dad was like, go do work in the government.
And I was like, nah, I don't want to do either of those.
I want to be a journalist and particularly a fashion and beauty journalist, because I just thought, oh, the way people dress is so swaggy.
And I love that you can tell so so much about a person just by how they walk in the room, what they have on, how they choose to express themselves.
So I moved to New York as a journalist, and I built a career in media for the last decade where ultimately I was just having honest conversations with people all the time.
What is it to be a plus -size, brown -skinned Black girl in the fashion industry that constantly keeps its doors closed to people who look like me?
That's ultimately how my brand, The Blonde Misfit, got started.
But really what it was, was I didn't realize at the time I was becoming a community manager long before that was even like a term or a thing that I knew.
So a couple of years ago, I got the opportunity to build up the fashion and beauty space here at LinkedIn, which is where I came over and I've been here for the past three years as a community manager.
The dope thing is, you know, the world has changed so much even in three years.
And so whereas I first came in originally to work with fashion and beauty creators, I started working with businesses.
I was working with everyone from, you know, Bobby Brown to Rebecca Minkoff, Tori Burch, and ultimately building this huge, like wide casting net of just different people who are trying to figure out how do I show up authentically on the platform and how do I show up in a way that doesn't feel markety, but I still can tell people what do I offer into the world.
And so all of that has been sort of like the work that I've been doing for the past couple of years at LinkedIn, particularly with building audiences, building community and coaching them.
And most recently, I became one of the co -hosts of Let's Talk Offline, which is our Gen Z podcast. And so we are talking about all the things that people early in their career are trying to figure out about work.
And honestly, I am just so thankful because I wish that a podcast like this had existed when I was first graduating.
There were podcasts talking about millennials entering into the job market, but I felt like it was very cookie cutter.
And one thing I always like to do is be be very raw, honest, transparent on our podcast. And so, yeah, I hope I'm a woman of many hats, hopefully some that can fit my big head that won't mess up the pixie.
But at the end of the day, I am a storyteller, point blank, period.
I love this. And I think this will be one of the most challenging interviews I've ever done, because you are one of the most fascinating people I've ever met.
You've done so many cool things.
And I have to use a lot of discipline to talk about, to not to talk about ancient Greece or not talk about the fact that my parents met at Howard University.
And that's the reason I exist. But we are here.
You are good people.
Good people. That's right.
So when we think about this as it relates to negotiation, there's so many different ways for us to go.
But at the end of the day, when we're talking about negotiation or any conversation of any kind, it starts with connection.
And people, when they interact with you, They'll interact with your online presence before they interact with you.
Before they talk to you, they will see you, and then they'll come to conclusions and make judgments about you.
And I think your background as an actor and somebody who is knowledgeable of the fashion industry, while at the same time being extremely and ruthlessly authentic, I think you have a lot to offer when it comes to talking about developing an authentic presence.
So when it comes to all of this, I think we should start off with authenticity because that has to be the core.
Because I think a lot of times if we don't start there, people just start taking acting notes and they try to become somebody else that they're not and it doesn't work.
So what does authenticity mean to you?
Yeah, I love that you started off with authenticity because I agree at the baseline that is the foundation that you build the house on.
It's so interesting because when people give me the compliment that they feel like I'm so authentic, that I have a strong personal brand, it's such an interesting compliment for me because there were so many years I tried to be someone else.
I wasn't trying to be Jermaine.
I didn't think that the girl who I saw in the mirror was good enough.
And good enough for what?
I don't know. Just not good enough.
I come from a very interesting background.
I grew up seeing a lot of things, living in environments that I lived in.
And I just never thought I was worthy of having my story be shared or people seeing me truly for who I am.
And I thought I was too weird. I was like, I'm just a weird girl.
Like nobody cares cares about that.
But it was the minute that I chose to start sharing my truth, my honesty, and authentically showing up that I started to see, actually, I am building a community of people who not only like me, but they actually see themselves reflected in it.
And people smell authenticity all day long.
They can clock it twice on Sunday.
You know someone who is just really, genuinely true to themselves and who is just raw.
And people, whether you are their brand, your cup of tea or their shot of whiskey.
People respect it so much that they want to then figure out, okay, how do I encapsulate that too?
So for me, authenticity is me waking up every day saying I am going to be true to who I am.
That's it. Like I am just going to be true to who I am.
If you keep that as like sort of the banner of everything, every decision that you make, every question you ask yourself, every obstacle you come across, that is the question you gut butt check that you ask yourself, am I being true to me?
That takes on jobs, that takes on relationships.
You might like that person, but is that true to who you are?
You're like, no, are you settling?
No. A lot of times you'll find that if you're not operating an office, you do settle.
You settle for whatever you think you can get.
No. If you know who you are and if you carry yourself like that, if you carry yourself, I wouldn't, if you carry yourself confidently to know who I am is good enough, all the things around you start to attract.
you start to attract and manifest and pull everything that is already coming for you because the universe was just waiting on you to actually just say, you know what?
No, today I wake up, I'm choosing me.
That is powerful. And what I love about this the most is the simplicity of this, but also recognizing the challenge of it too.
Because waking up every morning saying, am I being true to who I am?
What's tough about this, especially for somebody who's listening to a podcast like this, Most likely somebody who spends a lot of time thinking, somebody who's educated and whatnot.
If you're listening to a LinkedIn podcast, network podcast, most likely you are, right?
And there is something that is very intangible and imprecise about that question and the answer to that question that makes people uncomfortable.
Because you might not even be able to articulate why you are or are not being true to who you are, but you still need to be willing to follow that.
And what's fascinating, too, about this is that when you start to really dig deep into your own authenticity and figuring out what it is that you really want, then you might recognize that the path you create for yourself is very different from what you thought it was going to be and what other people have envisioned for you.
And that core of authenticity can guide your subsequent conversations because I've seen it so many times.
People have all of the skills they need to have effective negotiations.
They know the strategies and then they set a goal that is not true to who they are.
and they negotiate effectively and they get exactly what they want.
And it's the worst thing that could have ever happened because they navigated the conversation to a destination that was not meant for them.
Absolutely. I think always you have to ask yourself, well, what is the destination?
Where am I trying to get to?
Now, look, I don't drive.
I don't know how to drive.
I don't know how to put a car in reverse, nothing like that.
But I do know that if you're going to get in the car, you need to know where you're going.
You need to know where you're going first. My Uber driver can pick me up right now.
We go into the city.
OK, cool. We can take a bridge here.
We can take this bridge.
We can hit the toll, but you got to know where you're going.
And if you don't know where you're going, which I think a lot of people, that's the first question, where are you trying to go?
Because once you know where you're trying to go, then you can start planning out all the steps.
Then you can start asking yourself, is this step in alignment with this step, with this step?
It's so funny because when I talk particularly to young women and they ask me, how do I create a career like yours?
I'm like, you can't, because I wouldn't even know how how to create a career like mine.
Everything was a serendipitous step that just fell forward and you got into the next thing.
But each step that I took, I went back to the question, is this in service of who I am and who I'm trying to be?
Does this accurately capture who I want Jemay Jackson to be in the world?
Is this the person who I see in the mirror and who I want others to see as well?
And when it comes back down to it, you gotta ask yourself those questions because every shiny thing ain't meant for you.
when let's talk offline came about, yeah, of course I was like, of course I'm a, I'm a pop off on a, on a podcast that would be all about like Gen Z and early career professionals.
And it's with LinkedIn.
You know, I used to have a podcast myself.
So I'm like, I got a producer now.
Oh, it's lit. Like I'm like, this is what, and you know what I had to do?
I still have to check in with myself.
I had to say all the beautiful things about this.
Is this still in service of who you are.
And if you cannot be authentically yourself on this podcast, I don't want it.
And I had to have a lot of conversations and thankfully internally, everyone was like, yeah, no, we actually want you because you are who you are.
And so I say that because I think on the one hand, everything that glitters is not gold.
And you want to make sure that you are always choosing the things that are going to be in alignment with you and who you authentically are.
But on the the flip side, also understand that the fear of being yourself is costing you so much. It's costing you a bag.
It's costing you an opportunity.
It's costing you community.
When you stay true to yourself and you stand 10 toes down for you, everybody else has no choice but to do the same.
That is powerful. That is powerful.
And I think this point of authenticity, this foundation of authenticity is a good place for us to start.
And now we can transition into presence and then fashion as well and so this is great from your perspective as somebody who's a trained actor when you think about presence and what that means not just in a conversation but just in an atmosphere where you're sharing space with other people what does that mean hello my friends before we get back to today's episode i want to ask you a question have you ever wondered how to elevate your team's negotiation game and how you can help the of folks on your team have better, difficult conversations?
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AI? I love that question.
So an acting exercise that we always do is setting an intention, right?
And so every actor, when you are coming on and off the stage, when you're coming into a scene, an actor is entering into a room with an intention.
Think about it. You like very rarely do you walk into the kitchen and you don't have an intention.
You went in there for something, right?
You went there to get some food or to make breakfast or whatever.
So setting the intention, I think, is the most important thing that that goes back to setting our destination, right?
When you walk into the room, your presence, you know, it's interesting.
Presence is one of two things.
I think on the one hand it's, you can train it, but I think it also is just natural.
Everyone has a natural swag to them, right?
It's the same thing as like Rihanna walks into a room, you go knows Rihanna, right?
Like other people can also have a certain type of presence or energy about them.
But I think for her particularly, she just knows herself and she just loves herself so much that it just oozes.
You just feel it. It's just like an aura.
That being said, everyone I think can effectively upskill their presence by when you're walking into a room, walking in with an intention, walking in knowing that you are meant to be in that room, right?
Which I think is some of the first disqualifiers we give ourselves, particularly when we've been given opportunities that we think are just so big or above us.
Like, no, you deserve to be there.
There's a reason reason you're supposed to be there.
And it has nothing to do with the person who invited you.
It has nothing to do with the organization.
You are divinely meant to be in every room that you are in.
And when you understand that, and when you walk into those spaces, you walk in with this kind of confidence about it that you're just like, you know what?
I'm going to get something out of this room, whether it's tangible, intangible, whatever have you.
And I think that adds to presence itself.
Now, the good thing about presence is presence doesn't have to be loud.
Like I'm a loud person.
and I get my laugh from my daddy.
Like I'm the person, you gonna hear me at the bar cause like I'm going to give you a good hearty laugh.
Presence has nothing to do with the sound.
It has everything to do with the energy.
But I think your energy always goes back to setting that intention and understanding that every room that you're in, you're supposed to be there.
And always tell yourself that, because trust me, there are gonna be a lot of days you're gonna walk into rooms and imposter syndrome or whatever you believe as imposter syndrome is gonna kick in.
All those voices in your head, all the reminders, oh, well, how do you think you're supposed to do this?
Or how do you think you're supposed to be here?
Don't you remember this?
Our brains love to hold on to memories of who you used to be and the things that you used to do.
But I love this word pro -noia.
Pro -noia is the opposite of paranoia.
Pro -noia is the belief that the universe is conspiring for your favor.
So if you spend in the same amount of energy thinking everything is not working out for you, you can always just replace that energy and think, actually, everything is working out for me, everything like nothing is off limits to me.
And when I walk into the room with that, you can't stop me.
This is so many good gems. I'm having trouble keeping up with these notes here and trying to figure out how to spell pronoia.
And when it comes to this, when you think about like this from a perspective of acting notes, you didn't say walk like this.
You didn't say talk like this or do this specific thing.
It all comes from within.
It emanates from within.
in. You start with that authentic core and then you give yourself permission to be who you are and then you walk in that and you recognize that you deserve to be there.
And I think that deserve to be there part really slows people down.
And I think that they might not even recognize how small they can make themselves because they think the situation that they're in is so big.
And so for people who find themselves in these situations where they're negotiating effectively and their career is advancing and they see themselves on bigger stages, in bigger rooms, talking about bigger deals, how do they have that internal negotiation that allows themselves to give themselves permission to actually be there and know that they belong?
I love that question.
One of the things I used to think about a lot was that I had to create my own reality if I wanted to see it in the world.
And I'm a daydreamer.
I can sit all day long and I I can daydream.
I like to take a piece of paper out.
I like to write my dreams down, right?
Like for me as a woman of faith, the Bible says, write the vision, make it plain.
I get as plain as I can get.
Like I write it down.
And it's so interesting because one of the things I used to do when I used to do these exercises is you think you're dreaming big.
You're not dreaming big enough.
You're not dreaming big enough.
You want to take a stage.
Well, what type of stage?
How many people are on the stage?
What do you have on that day?
How do you feel? What did you wake up that morning?
and what did you eat?
How did you get there?
The more granular you can get with dreaming about your dream life and the things that you deserve, the more you start to call those details into existence.
I think to myself, I can, yeah, sure.
I can ask, I can ask to win the lottery tomorrow, but if I'm not ready to sustain that blessing, then I'm going to lose it all.
And I think sometimes we get so good about the technical aspects of negotiation that we're not doing the heart checks and the heart posture to say, am I even ready for the thing that I've been working for?
Am I ready for that next promotion?
Am I ready for that big gig?
I'm not right now, at least right now at the time of this recording, I'm not ready to be the first on the call sheet for a feature film with Denzel Washington.
I'm not ready. I could say that I am, but I'm not.
You know why? I still got things to pay.
My house is a little bit in disarray.
The dogs are acting enough.
I'm trying to lose a couple pounds.
But like, you got to be honest with yourself.
In order for you to get the things that you want in life, you have to ask yourself, am I really ready for these things?
And if you say yes, what am I willing to do?
What habits am I willing to take on?
What affirmations am I ready to speak over my life?
Who am I ready to surround myself with that is going to help at the chemical level, change your mind so that your mind is prepared for the physical blessing that you are calling forth.
Don't mess up your bag trying to rush your feet.
Plant yourself and build wherever you are right now.
Build that presence so that when the next thing comes, you are ready to not only receive it, but you're willing to carry it out and you're ready to give it everything that it needs to really bloom and blossom.
I hope that makes sense because I feel it in my heart and I hope it makes sense.
Oh, this is this is creepy.
OK, so check this out.
Check this out. So I think a little bit of pro noia is occurring right now because so I was thinking about presence, but I wasn't thinking about talking to you about that today.
That wasn't part of the plan.
And so I've been thinking about that for the past few days.
And I was like, who is somebody in my mind that I always look at?
And I'm like, yeah, that's the kind of swag that I want to have. That's the type of presence.
What What is it about this man's gravitas that draws me to him in everything that he does?
And it's Denzel Washington.
And in 1300 episodes of the podcast, his name has never come up on the show until you said it.
So I think the universe is telling me to ask a follow up question here.
So what do you think about somebody like him on stage?
What is it about him that draws people in no matter what character he's playing?
it. I love that. And I'm hoping that all of the Denzel Washington words are just confirming that first of all, he needs to come on your podcast, but also he and I, maybe, maybe we are ready for the feature film.
I don't know. Maybe so, but you actually started off the last section in a way that I think answers this beautifully.
The reason why I don't tell people walk into a room like this, talk like this is because the best actors, you don't know they're acting.
Whenever I go out for auditions, particularly for roles that we have already seen other actors do, I never go watch their performance.
I never do. The reason why is because you will subconsciously start to say, oh, when they delivered this line, they said it like this, or they made this facial expression, or when he made this remark, she responded this.
That becomes inauthentic because now you're trying trying to replicate how someone else perceived the character and how someone else did.
What you do is you take those lines on the paper.
You do what's called script analysis.
You read, well, why might my character have responded like this?
Why might I say this?
What action might I do?
But even still, in the rehearsal, you don't start to associate actions to thoughts to words.
All of that has to to be raw and in the moment.
That is how you can get three performances.
I got a Friday night performance, a Saturday matinee and a Saturday night.
And I'm going to give you a different performance each time because I am grounded in the reality of the doing.
I'm not grounded in fabricating what I think the reality is.
And that is a big difference.
So with Denzel, I think people like Denzel, I would think people like Angela Bassett, I think people like Viola Bola Davis, they're not trying to play a character.
They are reading the script, and based upon what the script might tell you about how this person thinks, based upon the words that they say or how they interact with family, you then craft the reality of this character.
There's so much as an actor you have to backfill.
You got to give yourself your own backstory, because if you think about it, you're only seeing a glimmer of time through this character, whatever that glimmer may may be.
You have to do the work of filling in all the other places.
And so if you want to be the Denzel of your life, that means showing up and being rooted in the reality of the doing.
It means being present in the moment, not fabricating or trying to jock how someone else has played that.
Because at the end of the day, nobody can play you.
People can try, but that's knockoff.
That's off -Broadway.
You Broadway, baby.
You play you. And the only way you play you is being authentically you.
That's so good. I love this.
This is great. This is really, really helpful actually, because it's also giving me permission to be a bit more of myself because sometimes I get into this flow state.
Like for instance, I was working with LinkedIn.
I was in California a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago, and they asked me to make a PowerPoint presentation.
I said, okay, I'll do that.
We made it through two slides and we just freestyled the whole time.
And it was great. And as I was going, I was like saying these things, answering these questions goes flowing.
And I was like, Hey, I hope y 'all are writing this down.
Cause I have no clue what I'm going to say next.
And you just get into that moment and you give yourself permission to be in that moment.
And then you just trust yourself.
And it's so it's so interesting, too, because if I were to go to Kwame here at age 36 and go back to Kwame in his early 20s and he were to see my performance and say, well, what does how did you do that?
that. I'll be like, I don't, I don't know, man.
I just went with the flow.
I made sure I knew my stuff and I was well prepared.
And then I just flowed. And I can't tell you how many negotiations and conversations go the exact same way where I'm saying to myself, yeah, I have an idea of where I want to go.
I have my intention set.
I have my general goal, but I'm going to give the other person space to share their piece too.
And then we're going to play off of each other.
And then the negotiation often ends up in a place that is very different from what either of us believed it would be, but is also much better than what we ever thought it could be.
Absolutely. And I mean, I love what you've said, because life itself is improv.
Life is improv. We can sit down all day.
You can read every self -help book.
You can go to every TED talk.
You can look at every workshop.
To some degree, yes, there's things that you should know so that when you encounter different challenges in life, you know how to navigate them.
For instance, instance, I love when people share messaging when they get that first job offer.
Like, okay, what are the words I should say?
How should I follow up?
Because some people, they freak out, right?
Negotiating is hard, right?
I can't even half negotiate what I want for dinner.
Negotiating is difficult for a lot of people, but I don't want people to ever get caught up where you get so formulaic with the success that you don't give yourself the room to breathe so that when things things happen as they will, you know how to pivot.
You so busy thinking you done mapped out A through Z so that when one little monkey wrench gets thrown in the equation, you don't know how to bounce back.
You don't know how to pivot.
You don't know how to navigate.
You thought my life is going to look like this.
And then all of a sudden something new comes up.
You don't know. When I was 21, 22, you couldn't tell me I wasn't going to be a journalist. You couldn't tell me that.
That was what I had decided at that point, because I had hung up the acting dream at the time.
You couldn't tell me that that's not what I was going to do.
And you know what? God still allowed me to do everything that I set out to do.
But when the time came for me to pivot, I was okay with the pivot because I knew even in the pivot, I was still tapping into my purpose.
The pivot didn't change my purpose.
The pivot just moved me into my next chapter.
Oh, this is good. Yes.
And that alignment, that alignment between your words, your action, and your purpose, that can steer you in these conversations and it can steer you.
watch this transition.
It can steer you to the right fashion choices as well.
Not my best transition, so we'll take it.
So I want to make sure we leave room for that element too, because I'll tell you, like, listen, I was not always this way, fashionable.
Then my wife started dressing me and I looked somewhat presentable.
And when I started to actually talk to different folks who actually know fashion, like I had a fashion consultant talk to me, like for the a TED Talk.
I had somebody build the suits from scratch to make sure that everything was complimentary based on the message, my complexion, the vibe that I wanted to have. And it blew my mind.
I didn't realize this was a science.
And it can be so overwhelming for people who might not be well -schooled in this.
So when we think about transitioning from presence to the way that you put yourself together, where should people even start when it comes to considering fashion?
I love that question a lot because fashion is still one of my favorite things to talk about because even more than fashion, style is where you get to show up as you.
I like to say the difference of the two is fashion is what you see come down the runway, right?
There's a group of designers throughout the world and all these fashion brands who are creating a vision of their fashion house.
Then it trickles down.
Then you get it into like some of the higher end department stores, then you get it into standard department stores, then it keeps trickling down until you get to like what I like to call mass siege, right, which is like mass prestige, like department stores.
You have your own personal style on top of that.
So you can see the different trends that are coming and you can say, Okay, this is what I like when I would tell people if they're trying to figure out how they can show up in a fashion sense to do the exact same thing that you did when you were asking yourself, like, whose life would I want to emulate?
or who has characteristics that I want to emulate that brought you to Denzel?
You can do the exact same thing with fashion.
I have built fashion mood boards before.
I was like, who's out there right now whose style I really like?
And then I would go and I said, okay, I really like how Tracee Ellis Ross is really big and bold with her fashion prints.
I really kind of like the bohemian nature of Solange, right?
And then I even did it down to my hair.
I had locks for nine years and I said, okay, well, when I cut my locks off, like, where do I want to go?
I was pulling out 90s of like, knee long.
I was like, this is what I want to do.
But like, I got to keep it blonde, right?
And it was like, once you had a visual roadmap, you can start to ask yourself, what are the common themes here?
Okay, I look at all of these things.
Okay, the common theme here is I love color.
The common theme here is, you know, I might wear a more tailored top and then more of a a wide flare based upon body type, you can start to infer different patterns of what you see.
But you have to create the visual element first. And then from there, that will inform your shopping experiences, right?
Like you are, you don't have to wear Dior to be swag.
Now I love Dior, don't get me wrong, but you don't have to go out here and spend all this money in order to make small changes.
Wear something every day that makes you feel confident, whatever it is, right?
right? Where, like one thing that makes you feel confident or that makes you feel like, yeah, I'm that person.
You want that because you want to be able to walk into that room with that energy, that presence that we talked about, right?
And that could be anything, like it could be a tailored suit.
It could be a pop of color.
It could be a bold red lip, something that just makes you feel like, okay, it's time to go.
And when you feel on, you're on.
And I just say like, everyone can can start there and you can just start seeding small things into your closet that make you feel good.
Because honestly, and my mother always taught me this.
She said, when you look good, you feel good.
You know, I have hit some rock bottoms in my life.
And the first thing this woman will tell me is go get your hair done.
And I'm like, mom, there are real problems out in the world.
She said, I know, but I promise you, if you go out and you get your hair done, you get your little nails done, whatever, you put on a little bit of makeup, you're going to feel good.
And you know what? Sadly, she's right.
Sadly, sadly, because once you look in the mirror and you're like, oh, wow, I feel a little bit better now.
Like, yeah, it's not going to always solve for everything.
But I definitely say that's why I say fashion is a weapon.
It is a tool that you can use to tap into yourself.
One of the things that I was thinking about when I first moved to New York, I have no money.
I was a freelancer, right?
I was a freelancer and all of the money from my day job was funneling into me building my website.
So I was out here going in here.
I was making it look like your girl was popping, right?
Cause social media, we can sell a good dream here.
Everyone was like, oh, you were at this party or you went to this New York Fashion Week event.
I'm like, yeah, I was there.
Not knowing your girl is taking the train cause she can't afford the Ubers.
But one of the two things that I invested in early in, in my career, and I to this day have have no regrets.
I invested in a good photographer and I invested in nice clothes and nice clothes did not necessarily mean designer and met nice clothes because I kept saying to myself, if I'm going to move to New York and I'm going to convince people when I walk into this room that I am a fashion editor, I got to look like a fashion editor.
I wasn't even a fashion editor at that time, but I manifested it because I showed up as the person who I wanted to be.
So now when you you went to my social media, you saw only professional looking photos.
Naturally, people like, oh, she got a photographer.
Oh, yeah, she's the real deal.
I made myself the real deal because I carried myself and I carried myself in the way that I wanted to be before I got there.
Sometimes faking it till you make it really does work.
But you also got to put the work in, but you can still fake it till you make it with the clothes.
Oh, my goodness. See, I started this podcast in 2016 and you should have been the first guest. You could have saved me.
It's a lot of heartache.
It helped me to make a lot of money.
But this is great. Put yourself in, y 'all.
Yeah. This is so important because it's so funny because I think a lot of times we brush fashion aside and call it shallow or trivial.
It's all about the intelligence that I bring.
It's the substance of the deal.
That type of stuff.
But humans, we are kind of shallow by nature when it comes to biases.
We have that saying, don't judge a book by its cover, because we know, naturally speaking, humans will always judge books by their cover.
Absolutely. And so we have to recognize that.
And what's really cool about this, Jermaine, is that this ties into everything that we've been talking about the whole time.
You're not putting on a costume to pretend to be somebody else.
This is rooted in authenticity and the presence that you have will come from the confidence that you bring.
And I like that look good, feel good type of thing where you're saying, hey, if this feels good to me and I look good, it will change the way that I carry myself.
self and it's interesting because i remember i had the the suit designer come and build my first suit for the ted talk and then i kind of went back to the i don't want to call out any companies other more convenient options right and they were and they were okay they were okay but honestly it was purely laziness i did not want to invest time to wait to have a custom -built suit and then just this past month.
Okay, cool. So I was talking about the getting the suits from a company yet to be named.
Yes. Okay. So last month I went back to my guy and got those custom made suits.
And as soon as I started wearing them, the compliments started coming.
And I recognize that for my body type people like off the rack suits or even suits that are customized, but not done by somebody who knows how to tailor to this body type does not work.
So the guy that I work with, he works with NFL players, NBA players, athletic body types.
So he can actually understand how the suit contours the body appropriately.
And the thing that I recognized is not only was I getting the compliments that I was getting before, but I also felt so much better.
I told him I felt like a superhero who was putting his cape on for the first time in a long time.
It felt so much better.
And you see the way that people respond to you as well.
And so this is me speaking as a guy who was just always like sweats and dad jeans, I'm starting to really now appreciate the fashion because people really do respond to you completely differently when you start to upscale your fashion and style.
They do. And it's so funny because a lot of people think that, to your point, it's so superficial and shallow, but really it could be a great tool for you to get access, right?
Think about going to places and you looking the part.
People naturally will just give you the benefit of the doubt, right?
And I think a lot of this particularly like, you know, I have friends, both men and women who have used this particularly when finding partners, right?
They're like, I want to find someone who works in certain industries or makes a certain amount of money or does certain things, not from like the stance of like, I want to take advantage of them, but like, this is the, where I've already credentialed and I'm looking for someone who can at least meet me here.
And the way that the simple things that they do, changing where they go and have lunch on a Friday, changing where they sit, changing what events they go to, changing the clothes that they wear.
Something about tailored outfits just exudes not just money, but knowing your body type, which I think is attractive for so many people.
Even outside of a romantic stance, people just like, this man knows what he's talking about because he knew how to get a tailored suit.
And if you think about it, you can't walk into a department store and pick something off the rack.
your body is not an off the rack body.
Our bodies are unique.
We are unique. There are no two bodies are the same.
So why do you think that you can just walk in and just pull something off and it will fit?
Sure. For most people, okay.
You know, some people, they also have like a quote unquote ideal body size.
I use that word very loosely, and I'm only using it in the sense of your body might naturally be the measurements that designers use when they're creating clothes.
So you may not have a problem going in.
But let me tell you this.
If you don't have the money to go buy new clothes, if you don't have the money to invest in new things, take the things that you currently have and go to a good tailor.
Start with the small things.
Maybe that dress needs to get a couple inches cut off.
Or maybe you need to add a slit on the side.
Or maybe your blazer needs to be tucked in.
Maybe you need to add shoulder pads.
Do small things. Do the exercise we talked about earlier.
Create the visual mood board. Create the vision you're going for.
Remember, we want the destination we're not going to be like jimmy we're not going to get in cars and not have no destination right we're gonna have the destination and then from there use what you've already got and build and build that and i think like that is just such a great way for anyone to be able to add life into their clothes to be able to add life into their situations and to honestly like again be the person you want to be long before you're there this is so good and i want to keep on talking to you but i know we're coming up on time and most likely my camera's going to shut off again randomly.
So let's wrap it up here.
But Jemay, this has been fantastic.
And I know a lot of people are going to want to follow you and learn more about you.
So can you let them know about your podcast and where to find you too?
Yes, absolutely. Well, look, y 'all, I have had so much fun.
Please, let's keep the conversation going.
I am Jemay Jackson on LinkedIn, which is where you can also check out my podcast, Let's Talk Offline.
We have new episodes that drop every week and i am so excited please take a listen we would love to know what you guys think in it all and even though it is for gen z slash early career professionals i think a lot of people are going to find value in this i am a millennial i just want to caveat that and put that disclaimer out there i am a millennial but i really take my position on the podcast seriously to be a voice particularly for people of color and how they can navigate corporate workspaces even as creatives And so please take a listen.
Every other social platform, I am at the blonde misfit, blonde with an E.
And I would love for you all to join my misfit gang or my work bestie gang for Let's Talk Offline.
So thank you so much, Kwame.
I really appreciate you for having me, taking time out of your busy day.
You are like the goat.
OK, so the fact that you made time for this chaotic person is I really appreciate it.
No, that means a lot.
And thank you for joining us.
I cannot wait to share this with the audience.
Yeah, most def. Thank you guys so much. Congratulations.
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