You call me with this, and you don't even have to say anything.
You've already said enough.
It was pretty explicit.
There's a Fifth Amendment for a reason.
You owe them nothing.
Don't talk.
You do realize your phone's probably tapped, right?
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.
I'm Anastasia Nicolazzi, former New York City homicide prosecutor and host of Investigation.
Discovery's True Conviction.
And this is Anatomy of Murph.
The first 48 hours, every second counts.
You may have heard phrases like this to describe how critical time is in solving a violent crime.
As an investigator, speed really does matter.
It's critical to speak to witnesses when their memories are fresh, to collect evidence before it disappears and question suspects before they have a chance to change their story.
And for all these reasons, it's often said that for law enforcement, time is the enemy.
And the longer it takes to solve a crime, the less likely it will be prosecuted.
But that's not always the case.
Sometimes, Time can be not your enemy, but your friend.
And what can seem like justice delayed can prove to be the most effective path to justice served.
For today's episode we are going to Bucks County Pennsylvania, a mostly rural area just north of Philadelphia, to highlight a crime that occurred way back in the spring of 1991.
And to help us we're talking to the prosecutor that would ultimately bring that case home more than 20 years later.
So I'm Jennifer Shorn.
I'm the district attorney in Bucks County.
However, I spent the entirety of my career, so 25 years, prosecuting in this office.
And it happens to be the county where I was born and raised as well.
And it's no surprise that for me, one, I hear career prosecutor while Jen had me at hello.
But also I always like to learn about people's paths to their careers, be it prosecutor, detective or something else.
And while not everyone we talked to could have predicted their exact career paths, it is interesting that they usually have all demonstrated a desire to serve their community in some capacity.
And Jen is no different.
Upon graduation from college, I wanted to advocate for children.
I wasn't certain in what capacity.
And ironically, I was nannying for a family where the father was a fairly notorious criminal defense attorney.
And he was the one that said, well, did you ever contemplate a law degree?
If you want to advocate for kids, you may have a little more power in that capacity.
And in her 25 years as a prosecutor in her home county and now as the district attorney, she has done just that, advocating for victims and their families, whether that fight for justice takes months, years or, in this case, decades.
At the center of this story is a family, and at the heart of that family was a mother.
Joy Hibbs was a 35-year-old mom of two who was known for her kindness, her love of the outdoors and her distinctive Southern accent, one she and her husband Charlie brought with them when they moved to Bucks County from their home state of Florida.
Charlie and Joy were sweethearts, a young married couple from southern Florida who relocated to the suburbs of the Philadelphia area for family and work and were raising their family, bought their beautiful little home in Croydon and were just living the American dream.
And for Joy and Charlie, that dream included raising two kids, 16-year-old Angie and 12-year-old David, and working long hours to provide a supportive and happy home.
Charlie worked in construction and Joy worked for a physician, for a medical practice, as a medical assistant.
They had friends and community relationships and, you know, they had the perfect life.
So for Joy and the Hipps family, the morning of April 19, 1991, started like any other day.
Charlie left for his job in the city while Joy got the kids ready for school.
It was a normal morning.
David went off to catch his bus for school, and then Joy went about her morning routine.
On Fridays, Joy had a later shift at work, so the day was spent buying groceries and stopping by the bank to cash some checks which, if you're too young to remember, is the way we did it in the old days, before ATMs and Venmo.
At a little after 1 pm, Joy's 12-year-old son David, returned home from school and noticed that his mom's car was still in the driveway.
It was report card day, so he was coming home from school so proud because he made high honors, and couldn't wait to tell his mom about his report card.
And he's walking up the driveway and he saw in the bay window of the home that there was smoke.
And initially he thought, my mom must have left something on the range.
He thought oh, she must have left something on and it's burning and she must be getting ready for work in her bedroom or in the bathroom on the other side of the house.
But when David opened the back door of the house, he was immediately met with not just smoke, but with a wall of flames.
And David tries to get through the kitchen.
There were flames everywhere.
He starts to scream and yell, help, I need help, I need help.
My house is on fire and my mom is in there.
A neighbor called 911 and firefighters were quickly on the scene.
They battled the blaze from room to room, eventually making it to the young boy's bedroom, where they made an awful discovery.
Jen still remembers hearing one of the firefighters describe the scene.
He welled up in tears.
He was a young man, volunteer firefighter saying, when we went into this room and we saw this body, you know kind of wedged between the bed and partially on the floor, it was devastating.
Though severely burned beyond recognition, the victim was identified as 35-year-old Joy Hibbs.
News of the fire soon reached the local high school, and as Joy's daughter rushed home, she found her younger brother crying in front of the house.
And when she pulls down the street and she sees David's hysterical and he's being restrained by emergency personnel, that's when you know the realization that her mom was in the home.
A short time later, their father and Joy's husband arrived home.
After Charlie arrives and he's told before he can even get to his kids at the blockade at the end of the street and he just completely collapses in the street when he's told about his wife having passed in the fire.
The cause and the origin of the fire was still unknown, but the discovery of Joy's body in her son David's room led to some painful speculation by her young son.
He had a computer cord plugged into where the aquarium was plugged into and he thought that a fire must have started in his room because of the way he had everything kind of rigged, that then his mom was in there trying to save the animals or put out the fire, and that's what caused her death.
So for the first 24 hours, he thought he was responsible for his mom's death.
And what he must have put himself through mentally, in addition to the trauma about losing his mom, is more than many could bear.
And to firefighters.
There was some evidence that this devastating fire may not have been accidental.
The firefighters knew immediately that this looked suspicious.
They were not able to determine if there was an accelerant used.
It's apparent there's four different points of origin clearly set, and they were able to determine that the intensity of the fire was in the bedroom where Joy's body was.
You just heard Jen describe four different points of origin.
And what that means is firefighters notice four separate places that the fire may be set.
So it's unlikely that a fire started in a single location like a stove in the kitchen, the bedroom.
If it was, you would not see ignition points in multiple places.
So when you say four points, that tells you intentionality.
And there was even more evidence in the kitchen.
One firefighter noticed that all four burners on the range was on.
And it was clear that there was debris put on the range that was not debris falling from the ceiling after the fire started.
So debris intentionally put on the range.
So they knew, even though they were not the experts, that this was a suspicious fire and that it was an arson.
Investigation would follow.
And, in fact, investigators were able to conclude that the fire was intentionally set, which had significant implications because investigators now had to determine whether Joy's death in the fire was accidental or whether she could have been the intended target of a premeditated act of arson.
That answer would come courtesy of the autopsy which revealed some startling results.
Following the autopsy that the forensic pathologist determined that there was no smoke in her lungs.
So she was not breathing at the time this fire was started.
So it was apparent that she died prior to the fire.
Additionally, further examination revealed that Joy had suffered extreme injuries unrelated to the fire, including crushed ribs, multiple stab wounds and even signs of strangulation.
All of which meant that not only was this a case of arson, this was murder.
And so the investigation.
It was clear that the fire was set with the hope of destroying evidence of the murder.
What at first appeared to be a tragic accident had turned into a family's worst nightmare.
A very much loved mother and wife brutally murdered in her own home.
And with no suspects, no witnesses and a crime scene that had literally gone up in flames, law enforcement had their work cut out for them.
The truth behind Joy's brutal murder was still buried somewhere beneath the ash and the secrets of this small Pennsylvania town.
And investigators were determined to dig it out, no matter how long it took.
The date was April 19th, the scene, Bristol Township, the crime, murder and arson.
Tonight, the tragic and puzzling story of 35-year-old Joy Hibbs.
In Pennsylvania, a devastating house fire had taken the life of a 35-year-old mother of two, Joy Hibbs.
But it turned out that the blaze was hiding something much more sinister.
So the firefighters and the fire marshal were already suspicious about the fire.
But it isn't until the next day, when the forensic pathologist performs the autopsy of Joy, that the police are made aware that she was in fact stabbed and likely asphyxiated, and that she also had blunt trauma.
In other words, Joy had been murdered and the fire had been deliberately set to cover up the evidence of both how she died and who was responsible.
She's never hurt anybody in her life, and that's why I can't see the brutality of it.
That was Joy's husband, Charlie Hibbs, speaking to a reporter on the local news.
Joy's family was stunned by both the brutality of her death and the idea that their kind and loving mother would ever be the target of this type of violence.
And that would have been one of the first questions investigators would have asked.
Did she have any enemies?
Was she involved in any recent disputes?
Did she have a secret history of at-risk behavior, potentially?
And the answer to these questions across the board was no.
Everyone who knew Joy said she was the most lovely, kind, beautiful, inside and out woman.
There was not a single person who said a negative word about Joy.
It's pretty remarkable.
Her name absolutely summed up who their mom was.
You know, she was a joy to everyone.
So if Joy was not someone who was likely to be deliberately targeted, then my next question or thought would be whether this could have been random.
Perhaps Joy was simply the unlucky victim of a robbery or home evasion that went horribly wrong and then turned violent.
Joy's wallet was found shoved in between the seat cushion and the back cushion on a recliner in the living room, fully intact.
Her purse, however, though, was clearly emptied in the kitchen and the contents were strewn about.
So it was obvious that it wasn't just knocked over and things spilled out because of the firefighting efforts.
It was like every piece of paper, every coin, every piece of candy was strewn about and emptied onto the kitchen floor.
And remember, according to her husband, Joy had intended to go to the bank that day, so presumably she would have had money in that wallet or purse, but that money was gone.
But then again, as far as they could tell, through the damage of the fire, there was nothing else missing from the house.
So no drawers rummaged through or jewelry stolen.
And I'll add that the massive injuries that Joyce sustained before the fire was set were not typical of a home invasion.
They seemed deliberate, prolonged, and even personal.
As investigators began to dig deeper for any clues about potential suspects or a possible motive, Joy's family shared details of a series of troubling events that suggested that Joy's murder might not be random.
For example, just a few months prior to the fire, a brick had been thrown through the Hibbs living room window.
In another incident.
Their rear door had been kicked in and damaged, and Joy's car tires had even been slashed.
According to Joy's husband, Charlie, they had kind of chalked up these incidents to vandals.
But given Joy's murder, they obviously seemed a lot more relevant now and possibly critical clues to who may have perpetrated the crime.
And so investigators, as they often do, turn to the neighbors to see if anyone had noticed anything out of the ordinary, not just on the day of the fire but any time over the last several months.
That's when they got their first lead.
A number of neighbors described that there was something unusual prior to the fire and that there was this blue Monte Carlo parked haphazardly.
And while the blue Monte Carlo was unfamiliar to the neighbors, it rang a bell with Joy's 12-year-old son.
Someone says to David do you know anyone who would have been visiting your mom with a shiny blue, metallic blue Monte Carlo?
And he goes, the only person I know who drives a car like that is April, my mom's friend April.
From that, and interviewing a number of the neighbors, they learned that well yeah, there was a family that lived two doors down, April and Bob Atkins but they lost their house due to a foreclosure.
According to neighbors, April and Robert Atkins only lived on the street for a short time and always seemed to be having a hard time making ends meet, especially with Bob, chronically unemployed.
And Joy kind of noticed this and noticed that it seemed that April was a young mother, younger than Joy and overwhelmed,
And so she took a real interest in the kids and became friends with April Atkins.
But Joy's relationship with April's husband, that was another story.
According to neighbors, Joy often gave April safe harbor in her home when things felt unsafe at their own home.
She was very kind and supportive to April.
But there was also evidence that there was an ongoing conflict between Robert and Joy as well.
In fact, it again was Joy's 12-year-old son who recalled a recent incident in which he overheard Robert Atkins screaming at his mom over the phone.
He said, my mom had been receiving threats from Bob Atkins.
He was in a series of arguments with my mom.
And my mom confided in me.
But I overheard one phone call where Bob Atkins was yelling on the phone, on his end of the phone.
And David wasn't listening on the line, but was standing near his mom.
And he heard Bob Atkins threaten his mom.
So here we have a man who lived in the area, was reputed to have a bad temper and had a history of conflict with our victim.
Safe to say, this was likely a strong person of interest.
Definitely someone who warrants a deeper look, especially when investigators realize that he was already known to local police as someone involved in the narcotics trade and now add criminal history to his profile.
Two officers go out who were narcotics officers.
They know Bob Atkins because Bob Atkins was previously an informant for them in drug investigations and the drug trade.
And, as you know, police oftentimes use drug users or low-level dealers as an informant to help identify higher-level drug dealers.
And Bob Atkins was their informant.
So when it becomes apparent that one of the suspects is Bob Atkins, they go out to speak to him.
And this is where the investigation kind of got a little sideways, because there were a couple, let's say, irregularities in this encounter between law enforcement and Atkins that had some pretty serious repercussions down the road.
So, first of all, when you hear that it was narcotics officers that went to speak with him rather than homicide detectives,
So I thought about that, Scott.
You know, first of all, yes, they had the relationship with him because he had been an informant.
But as we both know, it would be the investigators handling the case.
In this case, the homicide that would usually be the ones to go speak with him.
So again, it doesn't say anything in and of itself, but it does raise eyebrows.
So when I first dug into this, the only thing I could think of was the fact that, as you said, they had a rapport, which perhaps could be an advantage because there's more trust between those narcotics officers and him.
However...
It should only be an introduction to the homicide investigators.
And the reason is this was clearly a homicide case.
And those two lanes, Anastasia, as you know, are very, very different.
And most evident in the fact that the two officers from narcotics chose to interview Robert Atkins and his wife while she was present.
They were together, opposed to separating them, hoping maybe by separating them.
As you know, you can catch inconsistencies in his or her statements.
So that is a problem from day one.
And again, it could go to their inexperience because they are not those type of investigators.
And unfortunately, I've seen this more than one or two, three times before.
But they also then went on to tell Atkins that they'd be coming back for a full statement.
And again Scott, like we know, like that's never something you're going to do to give someone the heads up that they should really think out what they might need to say next.
Yeah, when he walked into the next meeting, he kind of knew the deal.
So as for an alibi, on the day of the murder, Robert Atkins told police that not only did he have nothing to do with it, but that he and his family were not even in the area.
Bob says they were out of town at the Poconos, which is a resort area for people in this part of the country.
Pretty unusual in mid-April to go up.
But nonetheless, that he claims they went up for a quick visit to the Poconos for the weekend.
And he doesn't know what happened.
That's the extent of the details that they gleaned from Bob.
The narcotics officers that questioned him left it at that.
But they did make a note that proved to be important about Atkins' appearance.
One notes, though, that Bob had an injury to his arm and he was covering up the injury with a sling.
Later, when homicide detectives asked Robert Atkins to make an official statement at the police station, it was clear that he was prepared to dig in his heels and not cooperate with the investigation.
He refuses to take a polygraph.
They attempt again to try to interview him.
After a little bit of time goes by and he goes.
No, my attorney told me not to take the polygraph and to not provide any more information.
Furthermore, the witness that said she saw Atkins' blue Monte Carlo parked in front of the Hibbs' house.
Well, that witness was no longer so sure.
What we know is, by the time they tried to then bring the eyewitnesses out who saw this shiny, metallic blue Monte Carlo, They drove them around to Bob Atkins' apartment.
And this is several days after the initial interview of Bob by the narcotics detectives.
And there was a black Monte Carlo there.
And they pointed it out.
Is that the Monte Carlo you saw?
They said, no, that's not it.
So I think detectives felt that was a huge setback.
So did Bob Atkins really have a solid alibi?
It actually appeared to check out.
Detectives had verified that in fact, Bob and April Atkins and their two small children checked into a motel, a Pocono area motel, on that Friday, April 19th.
That April was the one seen in the lobby signed in.
The clerk entered the time and it was the family of four.
They confirmed they checked out on Sunday at around 11 something in the morning.
As hard as it was for Joy's family to hear investigators in Bucks County moved on from Bob Atkins as a possible suspect in Joy's murder.
And in what must have felt like adding insult to injury, investigators turned their focus on someone even closer to Joy her own husband, Charlie.
We know Charlie left their home in Cordon passing the job site in the Northeast because he had to check in in the Center City office.
Eyewitnesses at Charlie Hibbs' job site also put him there in the afternoon when he was told to rush home because his house was on fire.
So it appeared that his alibi for the day of the murder was pretty airtight.
That said, they obviously wanted to make sure that.
Sadly, you know, you always do have to look at someone's paramour to see if they had motive to do this, and you have to work pretty hard.
And at that point investigators just could not rule Charlie out as a suspect because, as we know, under the surface of even seemingly perfect marriages there sometimes lies a variety of hidden motives, from financial issues to infidelity.
Unfortunately, then there was another little bit of a issue thrown into the mix, in that one of Joy's co-workers was said that Joy was receiving threatening phone calls at her work, but she thought it was her husband.
Pretty explosive allegations to be hurling in the wake of a woman's murder.
But in a homicide, especially one that suggests the victim may have known her killer, investigators had to consider the possibility that Charlie Hibbs was harboring a secret.
But the suspicion around Charlie may have had to do with something else.
Joy was this beautiful, very fine looking woman.
And Charlie, who was a good man, hardworking, loved his family, but he looked like a biker.
He was a biker.
He was a motorcycle enthusiast who was in a social club that would do like the Toys for Tots drive every Christmas, dressed in their leathers and, you know, driving their Harleys looked like they could possibly be a motorcycle gangster.
Charlie Hibbs had no history of violence, no criminal record and, most importantly, there was no recorded history of domestic abuse or even marital trouble.
Unfortunately, though, he looked like he was a scary guy.
He had a kind of roughness about him.
So this older woman said, well, I think it might have been the husband calling Joy.
And so investigators put Charlie under the magnifying glass, interviewing him multiple times and subjecting him to multiple polygraph tests.
He never changed his story.
Although Charlie was a suspect, he completely cooperated.
His alibi checked out and it was well documented just how he grieved, how he supported his children, the raw emotion, how he would break down every time they spoke to him.
After months of scrutiny, Joy's husband was cleared as a suspect.
But as the investigation dragged on and his wife's murder remained unsolved, he couldn't shake that cloud of suspicion that still followed him around.
They had cleared Charlie.
I mean Charlie, I believe over the years, felt that they hadn't because the case went unsolved and felt like they must still suspect me.
And he wasn't the only one feeling frustrated with the lack of progress in the case.
As the years passed and no new leads or suspects were developed, Joy's children grew up without a mother and without answers regarding her brutal murder.
They knew that there were other investigative theories, but beyond that they really didn't understand why the case went cold and remained unsolved for so long.
You know, here, Scott, we talk about why cases go cold, and it's obviously for various reasons.
But if we're looking here for a moment, first of all there is the way that it was handled initially when it came to the neighbor, Robert Atkins, and the narcotics officers.
Like, is there more there, and did they miss it, or did they not go further purposely?
Like, these are all questions that must have been swirling at the time.
And even if there is certain pieces of evidence that might be pointing in those directions well, that's not enough to put handcuffs on someone and charge them.
And they certainly don't seem to have anywhere near enough evidence to charge anyone.
At that point.
And it really just was, you know, there was wall after wall.
You just raised it.
And I often get that question is why cases go cold.
And I'll just say, I think it comes down to, you know, as far as I'm concerned, three factors.
The first being lack of evidence.
Sometimes there's not enough physical evidence to link anyone to a crime.
The second is witnesses reluctant to get involved.
They may be intimidated.
They may be worried about retaliation.
So they just don't want to step forward.
And then, of course, it's the third one, which is the passage of time.
You know, memories fade.
But more importantly, physical evidence can deteriorate.
Even if it's been collected, as you know, Anastasia, correctly or stored, it still happens.
And you know this.
I've seen it myself.
So, yes, it goes cold.
But Robert Atkins remained the one suspect that, based on just investigative impediments, like his refusal to further cooperate, the case went cold.
And we talk about the passage of time.
That's exactly what happened here, because we're going to jump not by months or even a few years, but forward to 2014, when Joy's son David, at that point, was 35 years old, which is the same age his mom was when she was murdered.
And he still wanted those answers and the accountability for his mom's murder.
So the Hibbs family did something that many victims' families do.
They turned to the media for help.
They wanted to keep Joy's memory alive and also hope to generate some new leads.
They were also working with a local reporter who did a, Vinnie Bella from the Philadelphia Inquirer, who did a wonderful job trying to keep the case alive.
Joy's son was also not shy about vocalizing some of the family's criticisms of the way Bucks County handled the investigation.
It was very effective.
I mean, they were determined to continue to keep this on everybody's radar.
And that was, quite frankly, when Matt Weintraub learned of it and assigned me and assigned a county detective out of our office to the investigation.
And Matt Weintraub was the new DA.
So he and Jen at that point, they'd never even heard of this case, which meant that the only place to start was right at the beginning.
But it also meant that every detail, every clue, and every suspect would get a fresh pair of eyes.
When we learned of this case and we learned of some information that was not conveyed properly and was not acted upon and some things that had occurred, and he was faced with the reality of this case.
We have the ability to prove this case.
And so, with a new DA, a new lead prosecutor and a new team of detectives assigned to the case, Joy Hibbs' unsolved murder became a top priority for the Bucks County DA's office.
And for Jen, that meant making sure the Hibbs family was a top priority as well.
We answered as many questions as we could, but we assured them that we were going to use every resource to take another look at the investigation to see what we could do.
I felt proud that he knew that this case was mishandled in the past but wanted to put a team together that he trusted would give everything to the case and make sure that nothing was left unturned.
And after reviewing the arson investigation, the autopsy and all of the witness reports, investigators found themselves right back where they left off, with April and her husband Robert Atkins.
I still believe that, when you ask anybody who really knew the case and worked the case, that Robert Atkins remained the only credible suspect.
For clarity here.
There had been some conflict of interest issues in the original questioning of Robert Atkins, which was handled by the narcotics detectives as we talked about earlier, who also happened to be running him as a confidential informant.
So there were even accusations that this relationship was too comfy and it actually led to him being let off easily.
And so Jen and the new team of investigators felt the best way to rectify these irregularities in the original investigation was to go back over his alibi, to really stress test it every which way they could.
Atkins' alibi hadn't changed over the years.
He still claimed that he and his wife had taken the kids on a last-minute trip to the Poconos.
The same weekend, Joy was killed and her house set on fire.
He had also claimed he had been on a phone call with one of April's friends discussing carpooling arrangements during the exact time of Joy's murder.
He claims it was around lunchtime, around noon.
However, it's later put forth this alibi.
When they go interview the woman about the alibi, she does say she called to speak to April and that Bob Atkins was there at their home.
But she says it's much later than what he claims.
Unfortunately, because of the passage of time, the opportunity to pull the records was gone, which also meant losing the opportunity to prove that hole in Atkins' alibi.
So Jen's team of cold case investigators would have to do it another way.
And part of the way they did that was to scrutinize the eyewitness reports that Atkins was seen checking into the Poconos Hotel on the day of the murder.
And immediately, there was another major discrepancy in the timeline.
Detectives had verified that in fact, Bob and April Atkins and their two small children checked into a motel.
It was just shy of 5 p.m., so 4.54 p.m. on that Friday, April 19th.
They didn't check in until nearly 5 pm on the day of Joy's murder, possibly as much as five hours after medical examiners had estimated Joy's time of death.
Which hypothetically would have given them plenty of time to set a fire, pack the kids in the car and skip town.
So in my book, Robert Atkins no longer had a viable alibi.
When approached by police, April Atkins continued to back her now ex-husband's story.
But after years of increased scrutiny, she finally had a change of heart.
Two years later, she comes in holding that same detective's card, not asking for anything.
It was on, incidentally, September 11th.
She had just lost a number of close loved ones.
She was seeing a man who treated her with kindness and he had just passed away.
And it was the first time she ever felt that she was in a relationship where she was given respect.
She had also lost her mother and another family member, a niece.
And she realized she needed to do something, that there was a lie out there that she wanted to make right.
Remember April had once been Joy's friend, someone Joy had looked out for and protected when April was a young mom in an abusive relationship.
But for 24 years, she refused to cooperate with police.
But now she was ready to make it right.
So at that point April gave you know a pretty detailed account of what occurred and it was dramatically different than obviously.
She said two years prior that her husband came home covered in blood and made a very incriminating statement and gives you know an account that clearly confirms her husband was involved in Joy's murder.
This is Detective Slaughter, Bristol Township Police.
It is Sunday, September the 11th, 2016.
It's about 6.28 p.m.
I am in the conference room with April Atkins.
April, are you here by your free will?
Yes.
In 2016, 25 years after the murder of Joy Hibbs, her friend, April Atkins, walked into a police station to make a shocking statement.
She tells the detective that she was awake getting ready for work the next day and had her two small children in their apartment.
When her husband came home covered in blood and demanding that she get the kids ready and get ready, they were leaving.
They had to get out of the area.
And when she was fighting him as to why not physically, but arguing with him no, this is crazy.
He said that he had stabbed somebody and lit a house on fire and that they needed to leave.
So when Bob made this comment to you about stabbing somebody and lighting a house on fire, it wasn't while you were at the house on Spencer Drive.
No, we were in an apartment.
And what kind of car did he have at that time?
I believe it was a black Monte Carlo.
According to April, she saw no option but to obey her husband's orders.
He made sure that I got the kids together.
Who did?
Robert Atkins, my husband at the time.
He scared the crap out of me.
More or less gather our shit, get in the car, and don't give me any trouble.
She says she's panicked.
She knows what he's saying is true because he is covered in blood and he has this menacing look.
And given the abuse that she's endured in their relationship for years you know physical and emotional abuse, extreme physical abuse she was not going to disregard what he said.
She was going to follow his instructions.
He got in the shower and threw his clothes in the wash and the laundry.
She gathered the kids and they got in the car and they drove with no pre-planned itinerary.
They drove to a motel in the Pocono area. and checked in for two nights.
And they didn't really speak about what occurred.
She made some assumptions, but they didn't speak about the specifics because she knew not to do that.
She was terrified of her husband.
Honey, I've been beat from hell and back by him, even when I was pregnant.
She went on to say that, once in the Poconos, Robert was already making efforts to establish an alibi and cover up his crime, starting with a walk into the woods.
So he's got a new pair of shoes on and he says, we're going to go take a walk.
And he's carrying a bag.
She never knew what was in the bag.
But they walk into the woods where there's a stream or a body of water.
She describes they walk pretty far into the woods until they get to this body of water.
And then he disappears.
Robert Atkins comes back to his wife and kids no longer holding the bag.
She never saw the shoes that he would commonly wear again.
So she believed that he went out and obviously purchased new shoes.
She knew that those shoes were newly purchased, that he was wearing and that he must have disposed of shoes in that bag when they went for a walk in the woods.
Now, at the time of this impromptu Pocono's getaway, April claimed she did not know who her husband had stabbed.
According to April, she knew that he was involved in drugs and drug trafficking and she assumed that it was someone related to a drug dispute.
Initially she didn't know who the victim was, but it became apparent when she returned home that Sunday and her good friend Joy was murdered.
But one thing was clear.
Her husband, Robert Atkins, knew exactly who he had killed and was convinced he would get away with it.
Mind you, all of the reports covering the house fire at the Hibbs' home initially were reporting it as believed to be an accidental house fire where a woman died as a result of a fire.
And so the media really wasn't reporting on a homicide at all.
And that was an important fact to me in looking at this case many years later.
You know, why did they return?
If they fled to the Pocono area, why return back to the area where the homicide occurred?
It was clear that at that point, he thought he got away with it.
He was under the impression that the fire successfully covered up the fact that Joy was stabbed and strangled.
He was successful.
This was a remarkable statement, albeit about 25 years later than it should have come.
But people remained silent for different reasons.
And April said she hadn't said anything for those decades out of fear for her life due to her husband's frequent threats and physical abuse.
And let's not forget that they had two kids together too.
She feared for her life.
And she went into great detail as to how abusive her relationship was, that she had been strangled, beaten.
And it was consistent with our information as far as Robert Atkinson's tendencies that he had a vicious temper, a very violent temper.
And so she just complied and she never spoke up until they were divorced.
And she found the courage many decades later to come forward.
So obviously, prosecutors will build a case against Atkins primarily on April's statement.
But that comes with a risk.
How do you know if she actually is telling the truth?
She never asked for anything.
There was a reward that was pretty well publicized.
She never asked for that.
She didn't ask for any type of help or assistance, wasn't facing charges herself for something and where she was trying to walk off charges for, say you know, a drug possession.
She just came in on her own, put this out there and then never asked for anything in return.
And there's an argument to be made that she helped Atkins cover up his crime when she went with him to the Poconos and that opened her up at least in theory, and maybe her own mind to potential charges.
And, based on that and her clear fear of Robert Atkins, not much for her to gain by giving this information to police.
She came in and, quite frankly, arguably put herself in the line of fire, in that she admitted she did something pretty atrocious, in that she sat on this information for decades and had this knowledge and did nothing with it.
And as a result, allowed her husband to get away with murder.
And despite April's bombshell statement, It would actually take another five years before Jen was able to present her case against Robert Atkins to a grand jury.
We take the work that was done and you build on it and you look at can time be our friend instead of our enemy?
Time can be your enemy in cases.
Witnesses, there's fatigue.
If a case continues to be postponed and postponed once it's charged, sometimes you lose the evidence that you have to prosecute because of lack of cooperation and witness fatigue.
But on a case like this, it hit rock bottom.
It ended up going cold for lack of a better term, remaining unsolved for so many years.
And now we were able to make time our friend in that people who were terrified of Robert Atkins because he was such a menacing figure.
Some people matured and had the wisdom to kind of realize, okay, I need to make this right.
I need to do the right thing.
And at the top of that list was April Adkins.
April was willing to have her communications with Robert recorded.
And April was living out of state at the time.
So we had to bring her into Bucks County Pennsylvania, have her set up in a hotel, but create this ruse that she was in fact at her home out of state and that the police were knocking on her door and trying to interview her.
And they left their business card and the card indicated they wanted to speak to her with regards to the murder of Joy Hibbs.
April then called her ex-husband to say that cops were at her door demanding answers.
He was quite eager to give her some pretty clear instructions on what she should do in response to what he believed to be the police knocking at her door.
And safe to say, it did not sound like the advice of an innocent man.
You know, you call me with this, and you don't even have to say anything.
You've already said a f***ing nothing. who's pretty explicit.
There's a Fifth Amendment for a reason.
You owe them nothing.
Don't talk.
You do realize your phone's probably tapped, right?
So just to go over the circumstantial evidence against Atkins, Joy's son overheard him threatening his mother over the phone.
A car similar to his was seen outside the Hibbs house on the day of the murder.
April's story that Atkins had actually admitted to committing the crime and now a recorded conversation where he basically incriminated himself.
So everything is crystallizing.
It's becoming apparent.
We have a strong case that Robert Atkins was responsible.
And remember when Jen said that time was becoming her friend?
There was actually another key witness who had time to rethink his loyalty to an abusive man like Robert Atkins, his own son.
One of the key things we did was we pulled his adult son into the grand jury to testify and he virtually admitted that his father admitted to the crimes.
He was very reluctant and it was painstaking and it was like a physical impediment it seemed that he had.
He was struggling to get the words out, but after the questioning, when i was questioning him on the stand, he broke down and admitted that.
His father says to his son Police were at your mom's house out of state, trying to interview her about something that happened 30 years ago.
I'm afraid I'm getting locked up and that I might be away for the rest of my life.
And I need to prepare you for the future without me.
And he slowly starts to provide details to his son.
The son doesn't say that.
His father said I murdered a woman called Joy Hibbs and set her house on fire.
But he says things like, my dad said, I think I did it.
I think I did it.
It was as close as Robert Atkins would ever get to confessing to Joy Hibbs' murder.
When we put it all together, it was such a clear picture.
There was no smoking gun.
It was.
Every piece of evidence meticulously being explained and put together, made it clear that we had enough.
There was enough prima facie evidence to arrest Robert Atkins and prosecute Robert Atkins for Joy Hibbs' murder.
After a lengthy presentation, the grand jury recommended charges of first-degree murder, arson and robbery, leading to the arrest of Robert Atkins for the murder of Joy Hibbs.
During the bench trial, the district attorney presented extensive evidence and called numerous witnesses.
And one of the topics that prosecutors touched on was what could have been the central conflict or motive that led Atkins to entering the home with an intent to kill.
One theory was that Joy and Atkins had simply had a dispute over money possibly related to the purchase of a small amount of marijuana.
There was no cash recovered in the wallet.
So clearly Robert Atkins was looking for money and he felt that the Hibbs family owed him money.
I think there's multiple motives in this case, but that was one of the theories that seemed to make sense, that there was a struggle over her purse and over her wallet.
And that certainly could have been the case.
But something about the way in which Joy was killed, the viciousness, the overkill.
It may point to a much darker motive than just robbery.
And, as it turned out, there was evidence that Adkins may well have been motivated by more than just an old debt.
And that evidence was buried deep in his criminal past.
We were confident in our case, but yet we were still always willing to consider any information that may be available.
So after he was arrested, we had a pretty large media response to the fact that he was arrested for this unsolved homicide.
That's when we get information from his family members in Tennessee about what he did when he was a teen.
He sexually attacked and beat within an inch of her life, his aunt.
The remarkable response was they were literally shocked when they saw Joy's image in our press conference, because it was the spitting image of their aunt.
Not only did Atkins have a history of sexual violence, his first victim bore a striking resemblance to Joy Hibbs, right down to her southern accent.
And you know honestly, we've seen several cases where killers develop an obsessive focus on individuals who symbolize the person.
They harbor deep-seated hatred or resentment towards.
And it's a psychological redirection.
And it plays a key role in how certain killers select their victims, for instance.
They may have unresolved issues with a parent, a partner, or even an authority figure.
And they channel that fury onto a stand-in victim, which becomes a surrogate for their true object, for their rage.
We do know Robert Atkins had a temper that such a violent rage he would go into when he was angry over rather insignificant triggers.
We also know though, that he was a sexual deviant.
And as we were investigating the homicide, we were gathering information about really deviant sexual acts that occurred when he was in adolescent age.
Things that would never be deemed admissible evidence, but gave us some real insight into Robert Atkins.
I do believe without question that there was a sexual component to this crime.
And so, as her family always suspected, Joy Hibbs had been in her home that morning, not only defenseless but unsuspecting prey to a true predator.
And incidentally, it was because of the person she was that she became friends with April Atkins and that started their association with the Atkins family.
But it was Joy's love of kids and just wanting to be a kind neighbor to help another mother who was overwhelmed that really allowed this predator into her home.
In the end, prosecutors were able to paint the picture of a violent individual who, for whatever the motive, deliberately beat stabbed, strangled a defenseless woman and then went to extreme lengths to cover up his crime.
The evidence of his prior crime against his aunt was ruled inadmissible at the murder trial, likely because it was too remote or overly prejudicial.
The judge likely wanted to ensure that the jury base their decision on the evidence of this crime alone.
And at the trial's conclusion, Robert Atkins was convicted of first-degree murder and arson and sentenced to life in prison.
And for the Hibbs family.
A long, painful journey to seek the truth and justice for their beloved wife and mother was finally over.
But of course, a whole other journey, one of healing, had only just begun.
The cold case investigation into the murder of Joy Hibbs unveiled a disturbing reality, one that implicated the very agency responsible for seeking justice.
As the new cold case detective dug into Robert Atkins, he discovered an unsettling truth.
Detectives back then were treating Atkins with kit gloves.
Why?
Because Atkins was more than just an informant.
He was their golden goose.
His intel had led to some of the department's biggest drug busts.
But this wasn't about drugs.
This was about murder.
And Joy Hibbs deserved so much more.
Joy Hibbs, who got to know the Atkins family as she had reached out woman to woman to try and help April, who she saw was overwhelmed and in a rough marital situation.
Robert Atkins clearly set his sights on Joy.
Was he motivated by her resemblance to his earlier victim and wanted to relive that crime by committing it again?
Was he motivated over a petty debt relating to some marijuana?
Or was he angered by Joy's kindness to his wife and decided to repay her attention and care by brutally taking her life?
That answer will likely never be clear.
But it is clear that Jen and her team of investigators and fellow prosecutors wanted justice for Joy Hibbs and no amount of time would stand in their way.
An old case is never an easy case to try.
The passage of time always presents additional challenges.
The Hibbs family waited for those answers to come, and they got them, albeit decades too late.
I can't help but thinking a lot about Joy's son and how he walked in proud of a report card and was met by a sight he can never unsee his mother dead in a fire.
No person and absolutely no child should ever have to go through that.
And for a time, he also thought it might have been his fault.
We hope he has found healing and love over the years to help him through the many difficult days of losing his mom.
And our thoughts are with all Joy's loved ones.
And now this AOM community knows of and will remember Joy Hibbs for her kindness and willingness to try and help a neighbor in need.
And that says so much about the woman she must have been.
Tune in next week for another new episode of Anatomy of Murder.
Anatomy of Murder is an AudioChuck original produced and created by Weinberger Media and Fresetti Media.
Ashley Flowers is executive producer.
This episode was written and produced by Walker Lamond, researched by Kate Cooper, edited by Ali Sirwa and Philjean Grande.
So, what do you think, Chuck?
Do you approve?
