Discussion keeps the world turning.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself, He Yang.
I'm joined by Yuxun and Steve Hatherly in the studio.
Coming up. The internet keeps us connected, but why does it feel like we're still lonely.
We discuss the concept of third places.
Could, and could that help us build more meaningful communities in the digital age?
And need a boost to crush the weak?
Our special segment Motivational Monday is your ultimate adrenaline shot to kick off things strong.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcast.
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us from social issues to tech and everything in between, let us take a stab at it.
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Now let's switch gears!
Alright, so we all know, Home is home, work is work!
But have you ever heard of THIRD places?
Think of them as the spots where you can just show up and meet people, no work, talk, or family drama.
These spots can be coffee shops, parks, libraries, but we just realized that libraries are supposed to be silent, so perhaps not the best place to chat, but you can make eye contact and maybe friendship comes from that.
And oh community centers!
We have these in China.
And they can be key to building real connections and helping people feel less isolated.
But reports from North America have found that they're harder and harder to come by these days.
From the rise of remote work to the over commercialization of public spaces, it feels like these third spaces are disappearing.
So for those who are not familiar with the context and the concept, what is a third place?
Actually, I could be one of the people who don't really get the idea of the third place But anyway, the idea of third places was proposed by urban sociologist Ray Oldenburg his book celebrating the third place in the year of 2000.
And the third place refers to public spaces where people can gather and interact informally so home means the first place and work means the second place and you can find this third place to maybe hang out with your friends or even strangers.
Yeah the third Good Place is a place where people gather either through an arranged schedule or just randomly.
And there they socialize and talk and hang out and read books.
It's a place where you have a space that is not your office and not your home.
So it's a space that allows for maybe a different side of you to be fulfilled.
I'll give you an example, um, my parents have a place in Florida in the United States where they stay for a few months a year.
And in that community, um, there's a swimming pool in the center of the community with a little community center that has a library and a cafe and things like that.
Every day at around 3 p .m., people just kind of go to the swimming pool area and they just Hang out in the pool or sit and talk next to the pool and they kind of catch up on what's been going on That day now for them, that's their third place and the concept of the third place is exactly that it's not your
home It's not your workplace It's a place where you gather to meet your your friends or strangers just for a little social interaction There's no definition of what a third place is in terms of the location.
It can be a bar it can be a coffee shop, it can be a community center, it can be anywhere that you're able to accomplish that goal.
Yes, and as I dug deeper into the concept of 3rd place, it's a really interesting phenomenon in the world.
Initially, I thought it's about casual socializing or community building, which is great, but But there's also more to it, as it is ...
it can become an opportunity for us to step outside of our regular roles, as, for me, let's say a radio host, a daughter, and maybe the girlfriend of someone.
I can forget about all of that and explore a more authentic, or individual version, of myself.
And these spaces, whether the park, the café, the library, the swimming pool, or community center, offer a break from the structured roles that we play at home and work.
And that can provide a platform for self -expression and freedom.
Yeah, so the issue here, and the reason that we're talking about this, is that these third places seem to be disappearing.
There was a story on the internet of a young woman named Kayla Proul, and she's 23 years old.
She's from Philadelphia in the United States.
And she talked about how in the past she would have a lot of opportunities for social engagement, like nature clubs, or dance classes, or a knitting group.
She was a member of a knitting group.
All of those qualify as a third place, but she said that, as an adult, she's finding it much harder to locate these kind of spaces, places, and she's tried really hard, she's gone to community events, and she's gone to local spots to hang out, but she feels the increasing absence of free, accessible
places for social connection.
Places like the gym, it's expensive, you have to pay for membership.
Places like a coffee shop, right?
There used to be places where in Starbucks, for example in America, you used to find people sitting in there for four, five, six hours just hanging out, working, talking, but that That culture is changing now.
Also coffee is expensive, right, so we have to take that into consideration too.
That's what Kayla is talking about in her story.
These spaces are not as available as they were.
It's interesting you brought up the coffee example because just by the sound of it, isn't it bad business for the coffee shop if these people are buying just a cup of coffee and taking up the space for four to five hours?
And in China, you see increasingly there a lot of, you know, just pick up and go coffee places.
there's no place to sit." So guys, do you think that Kayla's example is an exception, or is it a phenomenon?
As we can see, this is kind of a phenomenon.
In the U .S., first of all, the third places are fading away.
According to the 2023 American Time Use Survey by the Census Bureau, Americans are spending less time socializing with friends and more time alone at home, and the average time spent at home has risen by 1 hour and 30 minutes per day which is a 10 % increase from 2003 to 2022.
And the situation worsened significantly during the COVID -19 pandemic era which isolated people further, particularly among young adults aged 15 to 24 who saw a 70 % drop in the time spent with their friends during the pandemic.
And also, in 2020, they spent only about 20 minutes a day in person with friends.
And compared to 60 minutes daily, almost two decades earlier.
And this means they also spent less time in third places.
Which is the place for them to socialize with people.
Well, if they are spending less time out and about within a physical place with people, one could argue, well, I've moved my socializing to online.
do you think that maybe virtual, social, third spaces count?
Yeah, I mean, the rise of social media, right?
COVID obviously played a huge role in this as well.
And yes, online, third places like social media groups or talked about gaming guides not being so reliable anymore but gaming communities can be reliable.
Different types of forums online online, that have a lot of members, virtual worlds, I think, could even be seen as kind of a digital extension of the third place concept, if you will.
They provide the same purpose of a fostering community, so you could definitely argue that the internet has become the third place for a lot of people.
Now, is that healthy, or is it not?
Well, that's another conversation.
Yeah, and also when you're online, even when you're, sometimes Sometimes you're chatting with people but I think most of us spend way too much time watching short videos and just looking at various, they call them social media platforms but often it's just content creator platforms and it's hardly socializing,
it's hard to define the boundaries of the third place on the Internet and healthy behavior.
I think in the purest definition of the third place, the Internet doesn't fully cover that definition.
It does in part, but not wholly and not fully.
Yeah. Also because social media's interactions tend to be shallow and disconnected from real -world emotional depth, which is quite vital for building meaningful relationships and another thing, I think, is social media posts have brought different groups of people closer.
I think that's good – while also creating a lot of anxiety in a way.
On one hand, people tend to share only the glamorous aspects of their lives.
And on the other hand, that might exaggerate their achievements.
I mean, people may exaggerate their achievements and then creating even more anxiety to people who are seeing it.
Sorry, yeah. The anxiety that a social media brings is a constant theme that we touch upon on this show.
Youpeesha, you were not familiar with this term before.
You said when we started our chat that you were kind of confused by the definition of it, but that doesn't mean that you you live your life without a third place.
Correct? It just means that it wasn't in the forefront of your mind.
Yeah. And I think we have a lot of places like that, just, as you said, like community centers, libraries or just the park.
People can go there and gather together and share their ideas or just hand out.
And I don't I say that I don't get the idea, it's just because we when we're doing these kind of things, we won't say that we're going to a third place.
We're just like, we're are we just thinking about?
Yeah, we're just hanging out with our friends.
Yeah, it's not something that you talk about out loud, right?
I learned, my knowledge of Chinese culture is still very limited.
But I learned that there were places in a community where people and maybe they still do gather and dance together in like a community square, that would be a third place.
Oh yeah, actually since my childhood, I think, I've participated in various community activities, of course not these dancing things.
But picking up littering in public spaces or just weeding the public lawns in our neighborhood.
Schools also assigned related tasks for us which I thought was quite painful for me at that time.
Even now, the two compounds I've lived in while staying in Beijing both have community centers that organized these activities, like recreational activities, along with facilities with game rooms or just paint pond tables in the community, and something like that.
This might be a very biased stereotype.
But I always used to think that it's the pensioners who would have the time and feel very entitled to take up space in these third places that you shouldn't just mentioned and for so many people out there you could be younger or a bit older or whatnot people kind of sometimes struggle or at least they
need to go through this process of looking for third place although sometimes we don't know what it's called but looking for these spaces because it gives us a little bit of breather room it feels but But also one issue arises from, as people will encounter during this process of search that is like
that Kayla girl mentioned from the U .S., a lot of these third places come with a fee, so it's expensive.
Yes. And we've seen how these third places could gentrify a neighborhood.
So, in Beijing, we've seen this as well.
This slightly dilapidated area sees a cafe shop, a sushi restaurant, and maybe a bagel place.
And yeah, it sort of attracts people to want to hang out in these so -called third spaces, but also gradually, you know, the real estate price might rise.
Where it's this neighborhood is more made up and then it might attract more of the more well -off people perhaps, and then gentrification well in China is not always seen as a bad thing because it does have maybe the positive side of it but it becomes a bit of an issue.
Getting to these third places might be unaffordable for a lot of people… And that's what they say is to make these third places thrive is that you have to make them accessible and affordable, you have to keep the cost low and if possible completely free.
They also have to be open to everyone.
You have to ensure physical accessibility, talking about things like wheelchair ramps and public transportation access.
And then you have to foster that welcoming atmosphere as well.
You have to promote inclusivity, you have to design spaces places where people from diverse backgrounds can feel comfortable and valued spending time and talking with each other.
These places in our community are very valuable places to have.
Maybe it's only my personal idea or just bias, I think technology can also play a quite important role in this area as well.
We've talked about how remote work or pandemic has heightened feelings of isolation, right?
It's how... but we are now seeing some tech companies, they are gradually making the virtual world feel more real through their devices like headsets or AR glasses, or just spatial computing equipment.
For example, if the online communities we build can become more authentic through these devices and, you know, imagine just putting on one of these devices, and I feel like you've truly stepped into a community center or just a forest.
Also, seeing the real appearance of your friends, then the bonds, maybe, between people might also become more genuine.
And I think this is something some companies are already working towards.
And, of course, these devices can be very expensive.
And I am talking about maybe, in the future, when these devices are as common as smartphones right now.
So maybe that is the world that we are seeing.
I immediately sense a generation gap here, because to me an old -fashioned Luddite what you shouldn't just that is pretty much fighting fire with fire and For me it's more like oh, I love this concept, and so have genuine connection with people But I want to smash the screen or just temporarily put it away
and actually meet up with people and using tech to foster more so -called genuine connection, that's counter -intuitive a little bit, a little bit.
But I could be wrong.
I do see Yushin's point, though.
I do see that, too.
So let's respect our opinions and agree to disagree to a certain extent.
Coming up next, Motivational Monday!
No no no! on Motivatio Mondays.
Steve, what do you have for us?
Dr. Zeus. Have you heard that name before?
Theodor Zeus guys, so I think it's how you pronounce his last name.
He was born in 1904 and lived until 1991.
He was an American children's author.
He was a cartoonist.
He wrote and illustrated more than 60 books under his pen named Dr.
Tzuz and he sold over 600 million copies of his books, one of the most popular children's writers of all time.
I translated into 20 different languages around the world as well.
And ironically, I guess you could say I found my motivation from Dr.
Tzuz today and it's all about, kind of, being the Captain of your own ship, if you will.
And additionally I have my own writing on top of dr.
Zeus's writing for you today so here's dr.
Zeus is writing now remember this is a children's author you have brains in your head you have feet in your shoes you can steer yourself any direction you choose you're on your own and you know what you know and you are the guy who will decide where to go and here's what i added rhyming here oh dr.
Zeus rhymes here's what i added shall i take the bus today or shall my shoes guide the way It's up to me, not to you.
I may decide to have a snooze.
I'll make my choice and you make yours.
I'll guide my way and open doors.
For this is life, that's it, that's all.
Good luck my friend.
Maybe we all stand tall.
I didn't know you were a poet.
Yeah. I love it. So the idea there is we're surrounded by people all the time and people are always giving us their opinions on what we should be doing and what we shouldn't be doing.
But just remember it's your life.
You are the captain again.
You're the captain of your own ship So enjoy making those decisions for yourself.
Oh, I am very inspired.
Thank you for that You shouldn't.
What do you have for us?
Right even though I was like hurrying and encouraging people creating bonds through technology, but still I also found you know the importance of of getting some real world connection.
So the development and advancement of internet, as we know, have made the world within arm's reach.
Sometimes we spend a lot of time on our phones and watching show, scrolling videos and playing games.
It feels like we're always busy, but at the moment we put down our phones, we we've left feeling, like, emptier because of the time that we have spent and has slipped away.
And sometimes I even feel anxious about not knowing what to do on weekend so and then I come across an article about embracing the real and small corners of our lives and It goes like if you want a higher -quality weekend try shifting your focus to the tender pull tangible world around you the joy and satisfaction you
gain might feel more solid and fulfilling and And like, step offline, you could immerse yourself in a specific environment like walking along the pebble -covered path.
Or just touch the rough bark of a tree or hug a tree as we discussed.
Or connect with your specific friends.
Take some time to chat with them.
Or your family members get a greed -a -stranger you come across.
Even when spending time alone, you can focus on making the most of your day.
Enjoy your meal mindfully, or savoring the aroma of your vegetable.
These tangible and sensory experiences can provide us with genuine energy, as I think.
True sources of energy often lie hidden in the simple corners of our real life.
Mindfulness. Mm -hmm.
So this is my motivational Monday, and also may you embrace the real world more often and experience the beauty of our ordinary and precious moments.
What a lovely message to absorb in a Monday.
For this Motivational Monday, I was looking for a great motivational act, and here's what I've got you.
Let's throw back to a band that deeply impacted the Chinese music scene and inspired generations of people BEYOND, the legendary Hong Kong rock band.
Now, I know for many of you younger listeners of Generation Z, those born after 1996, BEYOND may not be a name you're familiar with, but for those of you who are around in the late 80s and 90s and early 90s, I suppose, BEYOND wasn't just a band.
They were a force of nature.
I'll never forget, in 2003, the first time I heard them as a junior high student in a record store in Dongseo, Dongcheong District in Beijing.
And as soon as the electric guitar riff of Guanghe TOY Amelia, or Glorious Days hit, I felt something shifted inside of me.
It was pure magic. What BEYOND gave us, music lovers, wasn't just music.
It was a lifeline. pooling.
They taught us how to face life's wins and losses, keep moving forward when things seem bleak, and stay grounded in pride without losing sight of humility.
Beyond was the living example of pursuing a dream – a dream to hold on to your ideals and live with purpose, no matter what the world throws our way.
Glorious Days, or Gwon KwayOne Wit Pier, was originally inspired by Nelson Mandela's story and his fight against racial disparity, symbolizing peace and the triumph of resilience.
And, the song that we're going to play you.
It's a mantra for everyone facing adversity.
It's about holding onto our dreams and believing that our confidence and determination can shape the future.
As we start this Monday, let's bring that spirit with us.
The glorious days ahead are ours for the taking.
Waang hu 5000, beyond, enjoy the music.
I am Israeli. Thank you so much Steve Hatherly and Yashound for joining the discussion.
We will see you next time.
