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This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable.
I'm Steve Hatherly together today with Li Ming and Nyo Honglin.
Coming up, you may not consider yourself a gamer, but I wonder if you're one who enjoys minigames within a bigger app.
If you are, then you are a part of a huge and growing industry.
Well, check out what's hot minigame -wise.
After that, the happiest place on the internet, it is Roundtable's Happy Place.
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Roundtable Podcast at QQ .com One more time Roundtable Podcast at QQ .com And now Ever found yourself glued to your phone mindlessly playing a simple yet silly minigame only to realize that hours have flown by not minutes at all If you thought you could stop you're wrong This year A trend is sweeping through young people mini -games that are surprisingly hard to quit.
These little games are much more than meets the eye so get ready to discover why these seemingly harmless games are getting harder to put down and why you might be hooked without even realizing it.
Nye Honglin, I'm assuming that that little chuckle that you gave us That's not a chuckle.
That's a regretful sigh.
That little regretful sigh that you gave us More like a plea to confession I guess that little sound that you made implies that you are a mini -gamer.
Yes, I am. And that reminds me of many sleepless nights in Beijing.
Actually, when it comes to mini -games, the thing with it is that you do not have to be a gamer.
You need to understand the simplest way of getting things around.
The reason I say that is because a lot of mini -games require you to get certain things around or match certain things and make them disappear they require you to have a brain and a certain level of agility with your fingers just tiny little yes and these mini games are lightweight easy to play and they are in a lot of different places and you do not really need a really long time to play no you don't and that's how they're designed right they're designed for you to kind of pop into the game play a little bit and then pop out and that's the difference between the mini -games and more complex video games
that require perhaps more strategy and a longer -term commitment.
You might sit down to a console game or a PC game for many hours at a time, but mini -games are often quite simple.
You tap, you swipe, whatever, and then you're playing for 15 minutes, 20 minutes, an hour, and hopefully not too much more than that.
But it can lead to many hours of the day as well.
Yes, and these games are actually very commonly found within apps like WeChat, TikTok, Douyin, and in even shopping platforms.
And in Alipay, there are many games in almost all the apps I can think of.
Yeah, even when you order food.
Do you know what I'm talking about?
Yes, yes. Have you ever won, by the way?
That's impossible to win.
Every time I order food, it shows the little delivery bike.
right this is where the delivery driver is then next to that there's a little bouncy coupon and you click on the bouncy coupon and then you're led to a board game where you have to click and you have to land on the magic place where you can win i don't know what is it 10 yuan or 20 yuan or something like i never won i get so depressed i don't think i'm ever gonna win sometimes just a little parachute landing from and dropping from the the top of the map and you have to be able to to get the coupon.
Yeah, it's not hard to understand the logic behind having all these mini games installed in a lot of these platforms because they want to keep you as long as possible on their app.
They want to make sure that you even develop a habit of using their app daily and even though it's because of the mini game, not because of what they actually do with the app, still it counts.
Of course. Liming, what are a couple of classic examples here oh and just for a kind of a more specific definition we're not talking about games that you go to the app store and download a separate app right these are games that exist within apps like wechat for example that's one example yeah so what are a couple of the classic examples flaming well a typical mini app game is on wechat is which is a game where you control a small cube -like character that stands on a platform and your goal is to jump from one platform to another without falling off.
And the mechanism is that when you press and hold the screen, your character, which is the cube, the longer you press the screen, the further the character will jump.
And the challenge lies in mastering the timing and precision.
And if you jump too short or too far, you fall and the game ends.
So this reminds me a lot about the game, the AFC game that we used to play as a kid which is Super Mario.
I think everybody knows.
Yes, of course. And jumping is only a part of it.
You have to time and control and you have to avoid the enemy.
Only with this mini app, the game has been simplified to a point where the only thing you need to do is to press and release.
And then perhaps some calculation and that's it yes and also there's sheep a sheep i've played that one too the game presents a stack of tiles with various icons and you match three identical piles to remove them see matching removing very very common to see in these kind of games the tiles are stacked in layers meaning that you can only select ones that are fully uncovered the first layer can be, well only the first layers are the one that you can select and as you clear tiles, new ones would become available but the challenge is that you have limited space to hold the unmatched tiles so if you
run out of space, you lose That sounds similar to Catch the Big Goose.
I was playing Catch the Big Goose this morning and that's where you have this screen and it's filled with a bunch of items Now, the lower levels, your screen is not filled with many items at all, and you have to match three and make them disappear.
So level one, I thought, well, this is quite easy.
Immediately, level two is impossible.
That was not good for my emotional stability at all.
But, yeah, you could immediately see why it was so, so addictive.
So let's talk about why and how popular are these, as a matter of fact.
I mean, mobile games, just speaking globally, they make up the majority of video games released each year.
There are thousands of new additions to the app stores, Apple and Google Play every year.
And going back to the mid -2010s, mobile games had overtaken console and PC in volume and revenue as well.
And then that gap continued to widen into the 2020s where mobile games accounted for over 50 % of game revenues.
Now, I know we're not talking about separate apps here, but we're still talking about games that you play on your mobile phone.
Who is playing these games and what is it that they get out of it?
Well, Data Eye Research Institute shows that the user base has grown to 1 billion with over 500 million monthly active users.
85 % of them are under 25 years old.
And more than half of Chinese gamers play WeChat mini games, which makes a lot of sense, because as of the year 2024, China has 1 .2 billion users of mobile internet, and also 949 million users of WeChat mini apps, and 232 million of Douyin mini app.
Douyin, which is like the sister app to TikTok, they are owned by the same company, ByteDance.
So a vast number of users, a vast number of people under the age of 24, young people, they're using the application and it's in the interest of the applications to try and engage the users, to keep them on their platforms, to claim their attention.
And so, yeah, it's a big market.
A report from China Merchant Securities shows the minigame market is estimated to hit nearly 42 billion yuan, or about 4 billion U .S.
dollars. That was an estimate for the year 2024.
We are yet to see the final break, roundup of the achievement back in the past year.
So, yeah, the potential is huge, and it makes a lot of sense, because when you play those games, you know that they've been designed to...
I wouldn't say smart, but they've been designed to attract people.
I, for one, haven't played a WeChat minigame for a long time, but ever so often I see these commercials, these ads for mini, and the apps are designed to show the game as so easy to play.
And then you cannot believe why you are not winning.
And then the virtual player, it'll show how the game is played by an anonymous player.
And he or she really sucks at the game.
And when you see somebody could suck at so easy a game, there's an urge within you to say that I could do much better.
How can anybody suck at such an easy game?
So that's one trick to attract people to the platform.
And then, yeah, like Steve said earlier, many of the games, when you start with them, they are so easy, and you get instant gratification every step of the way.
Yes. And then beyond a certain point, they will try and encourage you to spend money.
Yeah, well, yeah, and that's one of the ways that they make money, right, is these micro -purchases, which is just a totally different style because if you're playing on a console, for example, PlayStation or Xbox or something, your initial investment of, say...
Several hundred grand.
Yeah, about $50 American dollars, sometimes more, depending on the game.
That's kind of it. But here, within these games, you might pay a few yuan at a time and you don't realize maybe that that adds up over a few weeks or a few months.
Again, this is a multi -billion dollar industry.
The minigame market is going to hit 42 billion yuan or about $6 billion this year.
And that's up twofold from 2022.
I mean, that's massive growth, right?
It's growing very, very quickly.
Why are they so, so popular?
We've touched upon some of the reasons already.
They're really easy to play.
I think, Steve, the reason you can pass the first level of the game you played is only because the first level is more like a tutorial to newbies.
Yes, basically for a child of the age of two months.
They're telling you what to do with the first level.
Yeah, I like those levels.
The little arrows. Touch this, touch this.
Yes. And I think these games have different strategies.
A very typical, and I would say traditional one, is to make every level harder than the previous one until such a point that you feel like, I can definitely get this, but you really can't if you don't try for hours.
That's one strategy.
And another one is the one that actually Sheep a Sheep and also the Catch Goose kind of game is using that is making sure that only maybe 0 .1 % of people can actually pass the second level making you super competitive you really want to you really want to because because the game is so easy you feel like the game is so easy that you definitely can win yet you're not winning and that is making you making it impossible for you to stop.
You say competition and our listeners might think, oh, you're talking about the Internet, you know, competing with other people who are playing the same game outside of your house.
My competition comes from inside my house.
My wife and I are playing the same game.
It's stupid. It's called farm something.
I don't remember the name.
But anyway, within that game, you take care of your farm.
But then there's another little adventure land.
And then there's like the Candy Crush jewel style, like match three thing.
and i was far ahead of her for a long time and it gave me great satisfaction and recently she caught me liming and she passed me and i didn't want to yes honey i know you're listening right now and it does bother me okay it does and you was beginning paying money into it no no no that's our rule well it's supposed to be our rule no money spent on that but you can't tell whether your wife has spent money on this.
That's a fair point, yeah.
So yeah, the social influence, the psychological impact, that hit of adrenaline you get when you pass one of the levels, those are all reasons why.
And one funny reason for especially the younger generation is that they're using it as an excuse of not talking to people they do not want to talk to.
So it's kind of like I'm pretending I'm doing something and if I am so immersed in a game that I ignored something you said.
It fits perfectly into the stereotype of young kids playing their phone, playing their games.
It's okay. Let them do whatever they do.
I will not. I will stop socializing with them.
And before you knew it, actually, you are actually addicted to the game a little bit.
I have to say the times have really changed.
Back in my days, I used to use a book as an excuse.
I'm really focused.
I'm studying. I'm learning.
I'm reading. Stop bothering me but apparently now um books are not easy to uh carry around as compared to our smartphone everybody has a smartphone now these games are these games are fun well yes from a business point of view you get endless content you get variations because they change the skins right i think that's the terminology they'll they'll change the scene that you're looking at in certain aspects of the game pardon me so that makes you feel like you're playing a new game Then you've got the incorporation of advertisements and in -game purchases.
From a business strategy, it's really kind of genius.
But, yeah, you touched upon it, didn't you, Niu Honglin?
There are downsides to this.
Definitely. It will increase your screen time.
Now, with my weekly report, my phone is already telling me I'm opening and turning on my phone, using it around six to eight hours a day already.
Six to eight hours.
It's crazy, I know.
And these kind of games would only make the time longer, your screen time longer.
And also it has mental health implications over time.
This addiction can lead to problems with attention span and reduced engagement in real world activities.
Like marriage. If you're super competitive.
And also there's efficiency over depth in entertainment because these mini -games highlight the shift toward hyper -quick, accessible entertainment in the digital age where attention spans are shorter and people are increasingly looking for entertainment that can fit into their really fragmented schedules.
Yeah, 100%. So the advice is, yeah, have fun with the games.
They can be a source of entertainment, but everything in moderation, as they say.
Must be aware of how it is affecting you, how it is affecting your relationship, how is it affecting your own schedule So I know the feeling when you are playing the game, you're continuously getting instant satisfaction, and then you miss out on something else in your life.
And then when you finally grow tired of the game, there is a sense of, oh, nothing makes sense now.
Nothing. My life has no meaning.
Be aware of what it's doing to you.
Yeah, of course. There are plenty of reasons to play those popular mini games.
But like we said, it is designed to make you have fun and they are designed to make you stay there for a long time and come back frequently as well.
But I think if you're aware of all those things and you can you can handle it, then they can be a great source of fun.
You're listening to Roundtable.
I'm Steve, together today with Nguyen and Lai Ming.
And coming up next, we've got the happiest of happiest places, Roundtable's happy place.
Delivery, delivery, delivery What is it?
Happiness from Roundtable It is time for Roundtable's Happy Place and You Honglin, you have something really cool to talk about today Yes, something very special and making me happy it is a podcast series that I've been listening recently And very proudly, I can say it's a podcast series that's produced by our very own colleagues in the office.
It's a podcast series that they spent over three years to make.
It is a podcast series about our mother river, the Yellow River, Huanghe.
It is a very interesting idea because when it comes to the Yellow River, you think about protecting the Yellow River, you think about making the quality of the water better.
You think about taming the river because there are floods, there were floods years ago.
And you think about how to use the Yellow River to better help people's life alongside the river.
And these are the things that people usually think about when it comes to Yellow River.
Yet, what our colleagues did, what this podcast does was to actually investigate the stories alongside the Yellow River, the grassroots people stories, what are happening to a fisherman living adjacent to the Yellow River.
How has his life, his family, his future generations have become?
What are their relationships with Yellow River?
And what is the relationship, the family dynamic in such families?
What would a group of young students in a primary school that is at the source of the Yellow River, how are they living in such a remote area?
Are they getting, well, the answer is yes, by the way.
Are they getting electricity?
Are they getting the internet, probably?
How are their lives different from those in the bustling city center in Beijing?
We usually talk a lot about the grand scheme.
And yet what this podcast has been doing and is presenting to listeners is the every little stories in these not -that -developed areas.
They're the real stories.
And I find it really cool.
Yeah, that's incredible, too.
You said three years they worked on this project.
Here's the description.
I'm at the show's homepage right now.
It's called The Yellow River Mosaic.
And the description is as follows.
The Yellow River, the second longest river in China, is regarded as a shaping force in the history, economy and culture of northern China.
Today, around 100 million people live within its water basin, making up nearly 9 % of the country's population.
That is an astounding figure.
That's a really large percentage of the population that lives right along the riverside.
And this is a really long river as well, right?
Second longest in China.
Yes. And I think a lot of people living in this country, even though it is knowing that it is the second longest and one of the most remarkable water systems in the country, we often take it for granted.
Even for somebody who studied history like me, we usually take it at its face value, at its iconic value.
I know that in history, when it overflows, when there is flooding of the Yellow River, it often washes away people's homes and their fields and agricultural products, and therefore leading to peasant revokes and the overthrow of certain dynasties.
That often is the case when scholars would remember the Yellow River and stress the importance of it.
But now with the field trips being made, have been made by our colleagues, we finally know the people living by the Yellow River, what kind of lives they are living, what kind of impacts that human actions, human behaviors are doing to it, and what more impacts are we seeing from climate change.
So a lot of these findings are being presented to us.
And I think this is, in fact, the most important value of the work that we've done here.
And here, actually, I have prepared a trailer of the podcast for you to have a listen, have a little taste of it.
He can't live without the Yellow River in his eyes.
The Yellow River is so noble and elegant.
Both my grandpa and dad made a living from the river.
Would you like to move away from the Yellow River?
I don't think I will.
I love it so much. The Yellow River, the second longest river in China is regarded as a shaping force in the history economy and culture of Northern China.
Today, about 100 million people live within its water basin, making up nearly 9 % of the country's population.
How is climate change felt at its headwaters?
And what are the locals doing to cope with it?
What are the descendants of the boatmen doing?
What has kept some people from leaving their home village by the river?
And what has drawn others back?
Could the fading fishing community revive in a time of digital transformation?
From 2021 to 2024, our reporters visited the upper, middle and lower reaches of the Yellow River, talked to the herders, farmers, boatmen, fishermen and eco -activists who share a close bond with the river and present their stories in pictures, podcasts and videos all in our 12 -part series, The Yellow River Mosaic, available only on CGTN Radio.
I guess the relationship that people have with the river must be one of love, one of fear, one of respect, one of hate.
Sometimes, Lai Ming, you said in school you and, of course, everyone else in China would learn about the history of the river from a historical point of view.
It's importance to how the country was formed, or at least certain parts of the country were formed.
But for people who live along the river, it would be a completely different experience, wouldn't it?
Definitely. And I talked to the main creator of the podcast this morning to hear her side of the story.
And she said that we always focus on the grand picture.
Yet when they actually go to these places, when they talk to the people there, they can feel the deep and complicated relationship they have with the Yellow River.
And on Roundtable, we're also planning on presenting you a bonus episode of one episode from the Yellow River Mosaic podcast so that you would be able to have a longer taste, a bigger taste of what it's about.
And the episode we selected was the echoes of the boatman chantey, because that was the job of this person, of the main character in this podcast.
Yet, with the development of road transportation, the river's role as a transportation artery faded into history.
And so that in this episode, actually, the story is around the ferry port along the river and explore the lives of the boatmen's future generation as well, and we get to see that with time goes by, the relationship also changes.
Yeah, kind of a cool thing because for us, that's another world, isn't it?
That's another world because China's economic center of gravity has shifted over the past 1 ,000 years and also industrialization tech advancement has sort of rendered or reduced the importance of the river as a means of transportation.
Still, it's important for us to know that there are still people living next to it and their lives depend on that.
And in fact, their efforts might have impact on our future with regard to climate change.
100%. You can check it out.
It's called the Yellow River Mosaic.
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
Thank you to Nyo Honglin and Lai Ming for joining the show.
Thank you for sharing your time as well.
And please do join us again next time on Roundtable.
