Hello, and welcome to a real conversation between two native English speakers.
I'm Adam Navis.
Here with me is the wonderful Liz Waite.
Hello, Liz.
Hi, Adam.
Today, we're going to be discussing the program, Who Was Sherlock Holmes?
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So, Liz.
Yes.
Let's talk about Sherlock Holmes.
Okay well, first of all Adam, I want to say I'm going to say a public apology because I've been getting a lot of comments lately that this isn't a real conversation.
It's just Liz monologuing, like just talking too much.
Well, it's probably because I'm very timid and don't express myself well enough.
See, somebody said this in a very kind way, which was like, Liz is a good talker or a good speaker.
Yeah.
And Adam is a good listener.
That's true.
That's true.
Tell me more.
That was a very, very nice way of somebody to say, Liz, maybe listen more.
Well, OK.
Well, here's my public apology and my promise that today I will definitely not take over the conversation and I will try not to interrupt you.
OK, good.
Well, it is you get to talk about the program, though.
Yes.
So to everyone, we did talk about this a little ahead of time.
So we do have a plan and this is her turn.
So I will listen.
OK.
And I also want to say that I brought... a prop for today's discussion.
This is my magnifying glass.
I'm gonna burn the screen.
Anyway, and I brought that because this is talking about a very famous detective or crime solver.
What other kind of word would you use?
He was not a police officer, so I wouldn't use that.
Right, but somebody who solved crimes using evidence.
Yes.
And we thought when we kind of came up with this program that it it was such an interesting program because Sherlock Holmes in the western sort of world is such an important character yeah um, which and for being just a character, a made-up character in a book is a really interesting place for just a character to be so important to western uh, literature and culture in general.
So i am really excited about this program.
It really goes through a couple examples of sherlock holmes stories if you haven't read them before.
We talk a little bit about who Sherlock Holmes was and why he was so important in like, actual crime scene investigations and why people follow his methods for solving crimes even today.
Right.
It's hard to imagine a different a different way of solving crimes.
But it used to be.
People would like criminals had a shaped skull, or like there were traits of people's personalities that were criminal, or like that was used.
It was just dumb luck, maybe.
Yeah, yeah.
You were a criminal by nature.
It was in your nature to do crimes.
And Sherlock Holmes and the author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle kind of created this way of viewing crime, crime scenes or evidence in a different way that was a little more detached.
So maybe we should talk a little bit about some of these aspects.
So like who was Sherlock Holmes and what were the traits of Sherlock Holmes?
We've already talked about one, that he was obsessed with evidence.
He tried to be very logical to the point of in some of the depictions in the books and the many depictions that have followed.
He's often logical to the point of being antisocial.
People don't know how to interact with him, or he doesn't know how to interact with people because he's just so evidence-based and logical.
And of course, we know that humanity You know, we have feelings.
We need emotion.
We need emotions.
So do you have a favorite aspect or another aspect of Sherlock Holmes that?
Yes.
OK, so I would like to point out that Sherlock Holmes is in the Guinness Book of World Records.
We say this in the program for the most portrayed human character ever.
So, and of course, when you and that means like so, Sherlock Holmes stories in films and books and, you know, other sort of media, more people have played him than any other character, which is cool um, but that also means that, like some aspects of his character are a little different every time, but in general He always has.
And I think this is an important thing that we didn't really emphasize in the program.
One important thing is he always has a friend with him.
Dr. Watson.
Dr. Watson.
Dr. Watson.
And Dr. Watson is a little different every time, too.
But basically, Dr Watson, the stories are always set up with Dr Watson writing the adventures of Sherlock Holmes.
So that's the perspective.
Dr. Watson is writing the stories and saying, and then...
Sherlock did this and then he did that and stuff like that.
So I think that's one important part of the character of Sherlock Holmes is that he has this supporting character, who's very important in his life as a friend and a confidant.
Which is kind of counter to what I was saying.
He's got.
He doesn't know how to navigate a lot of social situations, but he has this one friend who's very loyal and very committed, even though it's not always an easy relationship.
Yes.
And I also think part of his character is that he's always very messy.
Like in all of the stories and depictions, his apartment is always very messy.
Very chaotic externally because he's got all these...
He likes to do experiments and try weird, crazy things.
Right.
Oh, and there is one more important aspect to his character, is that sometimes he depends on drugs.
Yes.
In the books, I think it's heroin.
Yes, a nice little heroin habit.
Exactly.
And in some of the other movies and things, it's different things.
But I think the idea behind him taking the drugs is to be able to give his mind a break, because there are so many things constantly going on in his mind that the drugs slow it down.
Right.
Am I right?
No, I think that's true.
I'm trying to think of... I haven't seen every...
Obviously, every characterization of Sherlock Holmes, but the ones that I'm thinking of right now yes, they all have some aspect of that.
And, of course, he plays an instrument.
Do you know the instrument?
Well, most often I think it's the violin, poorly.
He plays it very poorly.
No, I think he plays it very well, doesn't he?
I don't know.
See, that could be difference in depictions.
Difference in depictions, that's right.
So, do you have a favorite Sherlock?
Well, do you like Sherlock Holmes?
First of all, I shouldn't assume that you do.
Yes, I do like Sherlock Holmes.
I like mysteries in general as a genre.
So that sort of book really appeals to me.
Agatha Christie is another like is a mystery author that I really enjoy.
But I do like Sherlock Holmes, although, of course, it was written if you are.
Excuse me.
If you are listening to this today, you and then you want to go read a Sherlock Holmes book.
I think it would be very difficult, even for if you were reading it in English, even for a fluent speaker, to read the books written in 1880s 87 because it's an older type of English.
And it's also more formal speaking than we use today.
So I think it's.
When I think about reading a Sherlock Holmes book, it seems like a little bit of a chore.
Like it might be kind of difficult.
But I do like Sherlock Holmes and I do actually watch a couple TV shows based on the character of Sherlock Holmes.
Okay, give us one of your favorites.
Okay, my favorite is is the adaptation um called elementary okay, which is uh, it has johnny lee miller as um as sherlock, and uh, it has lucy liu, who is one of my favorite actors ever, as dr joan watson.
Okay, so in this adaptation, watson is a woman and they're friends.
They're not romantic partners, they're just friends And I, and they live in modern times in New York City and they solve crimes working with the local police department.
So that is my favorite adaptation by far.
I love it so much.
So my favorite is from a few years ago.
Do you like Sherlock Holmes first?
Like, do you?
I like a good detective of any kind and I think most even detectives on TV shows who are not strictly based like Elementary, is on Sherlock Holmes and the dynamic.
I like a good detective story.
I don't like it if it's too gory about murders and too much gross stuff.
But um, i do enjoy a good because i think you like, as as you're watching or reading, you like to like anticipate and try to solve, and there's you get to kind of have that experience of if it's too far, if i if because there have been stories, even sherlock holmes stories i've read i'm like how could anyone have known that?
Like it is a bit get it adam, too far-fetched.
But my favorite adaptation is i really enjoyed the show house.
Oh, that is a good one.
Which is set in a hospital setting.
And Dr House is kind of this rogue doctor who gets to do whatever he wants because he's so brilliant.
He doesn't, you know, easy cases.
He wants, like, really complicated.
Which, the irony, you know the show is good because I do not like medical shows.
Oh, that's true.
So I don't like...
You know, bodies and guts and stuff.
That wasn't really too gory, though.
No, it's not.
Well, they do some like animations where like, the camera goes into the body and you see cells and stuff.
I don't like that.
But it is... He has a lot of the...
He has a friend named Dr. Wilson instead of Dr. Watson.
Sorry, all Wilson.
Yeah.
And he has many of the same.
He has prescription drug problems and is very antisocial and played by the wonderful actor Hugh Laurie, who is British but acts with an American accent and does it.
Wonderfully.
And so that is probably my favorite.
And if you're watching this and you have a favorite, we want to hear.
So put it in the comments and let us know what your favorite Sherlock Holmes representation.
And if we've never heard it, if it's maybe from your country or from a non-English version.
We would love to know if Sherlock Holmes, if there's depictions or versions of Sherlock Holmes that are maybe have gone into a different language.
That would be really fun.
Yeah, that is really fun.
I do think there's one more thing we need to talk about because, as I think about, you know, I could talk about TV all day.
I love TV.
But as we think about those, even those two examples where you're talking about house set in a hospital and and I talk about elementary sat in New York working with the police department,
Those two characters.
They're in such different situations with entirely different people, but they do solve the case or the crime in a very similar way.
And for the time when Sherlock Holmes was first written, this was a very new way of solving crimes right, right of looking at something and then trying to get all of the evidence.
So maybe if there was a crime scene, dusting for fingerprints and matching the fingerprints with somebody's finger somebody's actual fingers, yeah.
Or looking at what I love is you know what?
I a Sherlock Holmes sort of character who looks at someone and is like oh, you got to work late this morning and you have a dog and you I don't know some fantastically weird thing that they did right.
Oh, and you went to a party last Tuesday night or whatever.
And then they say oh, it's because you have a ticket stub sticking out of your pocket and it says Tuesday, and you have a dog hair on your leg and And so it's looking at all of those things and that's what House does and that's what Sherlock does in Elementary.
And that is one of the things that amazingly, I can't even think about how police wouldn't have been solving crimes that way.
Because it's so in our nature now that that is how you solve crimes.
And to have a character who sort of encouraged thinking that way is amazing crazy yeah, i i can't think of.
I mean, i'm sure there are other fictional examples of fictional characters having that level of influence, but not in like actual life right, like it might be like oh, i follow my dreams not oh, we need to use evidence to solve crimes, and it really is.
There are people, there are experts um, you know, when we were researching this script and um, even so, in the script there are quotes from people who actually study how his influence appeared in actual crime scene investigation.
So I think this is a really great program that you learn a lot and you think you learn a lot about Western sort of society in it as well.
Right.
No wonder he was made Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
Yeah.
Right.
Just for right.
He was given that title as a as a special thing from from the queen or the king.
I don't know.
Well, make sure that you let us know your favorite depiction.
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Yeah.
So Liz, anything else?
I don't think so.
I hope that I gave you an opportunity to speak.
You did.
This week, Adam.
Well, why don't you take us out?
Give us our tagline.
I hope that nobody's going to be mad at me this week.
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Spotlight out.
