[성격 유형으로 이해하는 인간 본성과 자기 계발의 지혜]-[The Four Tendencies with Gretchen Rubin]

It'slike,well, we can all learn from eachother, but maybe if this doesn't work foryou, what are some other ways to tryit?

Understanding people who are different fromus, understanding our kids who are different from us is one of the hardest things inlife.

If you're likeme, there's a certain way you go about theworld.

So forme, I tend to kind of likerules.

I like knowing what's expected from me and I have expectations formyself.

And when people tellme,hey, I'd like you to dosomething.

As long as it'sreasonable, I'm happy tooblige.

I'm actually happy to know what theyexpect.

Well, I know I have a kid and I have certain friends who are completelydifferent.

Like, why are you asking so manyquestions?

It's not thatcomplicated.

And one of the things I recently unpacked was a new way to understand these differences and it has been mind-blowingly helpful to me and I can't wait to share it withyou.

Today on thepod, I'm talking to GretchenRubin.

She is one of today's most influential and thought-provoking observers of happiness and humannature.

She's the author of Many New York Times Best Selling Books and she hosts The Happier with Gretchen RubinPodcast.

I can't wait for you to hear our discussion on the different tendencies people have and how to use that information in a verypractical, helpful way in your reallife.

We'll be back right afterthis.

I don't know aboutyou, but I'm already thinking about my family's summervacation.

And after so many years of travelingtogether, we now love staying on Airbnb so our vacation can feel more like avacation.

On a recent trip to visit family inChicago, we found the perfect family-friendly Airbnb that had toys for myyoungest, family games for all ofus, and even the same book series my oldest was in the middle ofreading.

Oh, and it gave me and my husband a living room so we could actually have time to ourselves after our kids went tobed.

It was an all-aroundwin.

Did you know that while you'reaway, your home could be a perfect Airbnb for anotherfamily.

It's a great way to earn extra money to use on your family's nextvacation.

And speaking of making the most of familyvacations, if you have a trip comingup, don't forget to check out our recent episode on FamilyTravel.

We've gathered some practical and actionable tips to make your next vacation even more enjoyable foreveryone.

Your home might be worth more than youthink.

Find out how much at airbnb.com slashhost.

Hi,Gretchen. So good to have youon.

I'm so happy to have the chance to talk to youtoday.

Thankyou. Soyou, I feellike, are someone who's always been pretty curious about humannature.

And you've written about happiness alot.

And you've also written a book called FourTendencies, which speaks about these kind of four categories of how people orient theworld.

And I'd love to focus on that because I have done yourquiz.

I am allin. I'm not going to tell you who I amyet.

You can guess becauseI, as Ilisten, I've been trying to figure out what youare.

And I have tosay, I'm notsure.

So I'm truly insuspense.

This is goingto, you're going to answer a question that's been pesteringme.

Okay, it's veryexciting.

It is the ultimatecliffhanger.

I know everyone is on their seat rightnow.

What tendency isBecky?

Okay, but actually it's a perfect leadin.

What are the fourtendencies?

So I was writing a book called Better Than Before that was all about habitformation.

And it gave me an insight into this narrow aspect of ournature, which turns out to bereally, reallyimportant.

And it's important forhabits, but it's also really important for understanding ourkids.

It's really important for understanding ourselves or co-workers orspouses.

Andso, youknow, they say there are two kinds of people in theworld, those that divide the world into two kinds ofpeople, those thatdon't.

I'm the kind thatdoes. Andthis, this framework divides people into apollers,questioners,obligers, andrebels.

So we'll talk about it like in a nutshellversion, but if anybody wants to take a quiz and get areport, it'sfree.

It's at gretchenrobin.com slashquiz.

But I think most people will know what they are and what their kids are just from thisdiscussion.

Okay. So what it looks at is how you meetexpectations, how you respond to anexpectation.

And we all face two kinds ofexpectations.

Outer expectations like a work deadline or writing a book report and interact expectation like your own desire to keep a New Year's resolution or your own desire to get better atdiving.

So depending on whether we meet orresist, outer and innerexpectations, that's what makes us anupholder, aquestioner, and ablager, or arebel.

So when you look at someone who's anupholder, they readily meet outer and innerexpectations.

So these are the people who meet the school deadline and remember to pack their gym clothes without muchfuss.

They want to know what other people expect fromthem, but their expectations for themselves are just asimportant.

So their motto is discipline is myfreedom.

So this is like HermioneGranger.

Then there arequestioners, questioners question allexpectations.

They do something if they think it makessense.

So they resist anythingarbitrary,ineffective, unjustified that doesn't have apurpose.

They tend to love tocustomize.

They're very focused onreason.

So these are thepeople, youknow, you'relike, you have so manyquestions, because what's happening is if it meets their innerstandard, if it makes sense tothem, they will do it noproblem.

But if itfails, their innerstandard, they'll pushback.

So their mottois, I'll comply if you convince mewhy.

Then there areobligers.

Obligers are people who readily meet outerexpectations, but they struggle to meet innerexpectations.

And I'll justsay, this is the biggest tendency for both men andwomen.

This is the biggesttendency.

You either are anobligatory, many obligatory in yourlife.

So these are people who arelike, why can I keep my promises to otherpeople, but I can't keep my promises tomyself.

These are people whohave, who are really good with externalexpectations, but when it comes to something that they want to do forthemselves, theystruggle.

They're really great at going the extra mile for otherpeople, butthey, they often become very frustrated withthemselves.

And the secret for them is to create outeraccountability, even for something that's an innerexpectation.

And so their mottois, you can count onme, and I'm counting on you to count onme.

And thenfinally,rebels.

Rebels resist allexpectations, outer and inneralike.

AndBecky, I have to say I was thinking about the rebeltendency.

It's an episodes of years ago because somebody was describing a child and I'mlike, that might be a rebelchild.

So rebels do what they want to do in their ownway, in their owntime.

They can do anything they want todo, anything they choose todo.

And if you ask or tell them to dosomething, they're very likely toresist.

And typically they don't tell themselves what todo.

They'relike, I'm not going to sign up for a 10 AM swim class on Saturday because just the fact that somebody's going to expect me to show up is going to annoyme.

And I don't know what I'm going to feel like doing on Saturdayanyway.

So their mottois, you can't makeme, and neither canI.

And then when you know thesetendencies, it really can help you be a more effective parent and more effective at managingyourself.

Because, Imean, when you talk about this all thetime, people are different and to manageourselves, we have to knowourselves.

There's so many things I want to jumpinto.

One of the things I love and I love about your site and I love the way you profile also other people and you do this in the book is you don't have likejudgment.

You're not like everyone should bethis.

Absolutely. Like we have ourtendencies.

There are pros andcons.

Andyes, tome,actually, I often say this to friends like my favorite adult friends are just the people who like knowthemselves.

They can kind of have levity withthemselves.

They can talk aboutthat.

Likeobviously, I believe we canchange.

But to somedegree, it'slike,hey, this isme.

And I'm also curious about myself and notdefensive.

But I love that your book takes thatapproach, which for everyonelistening, you should know there's like noshame.

Like you will actually belike,wow, this is really useful as aframework.

And then instead ofstrategies, no one's trying to changeme.

I'm just going to become like a more effectiveme, youknow?

Absolutely. And that's one thing I tell peopleover.

It's because people arelike,well, what's the best tendency or the most successfultendency?

Like, it's not that one tendency is better than the others because they all have strengths andweaknesses.

And the strengths are theweaknesses,right?

They gotogether.Always.

But it's the people who know themselves and they'relike,well, I know what I need to succeed or I know what is likely to trip meup.

Andtherefore, I'm going to set up my circumstances and my schedule and my surrounding in a way that's going to help me achieve myaim.

And one of the things that's nice about the tendencies is I think a lot of times people feel very discouraged or they feellike, why is it that other people can beadult?

And I justcan't, like everybody else can just get up and go for a run everymorning.

Why can't I dothat?Like, what's wrong withme?

And it'slike,oh, a lot of people are in the sameboat.

There's so many solutions that people have come upwith.

You do not need tochange.

This is just athing. There's good aspects toit.

There's badaspect. And now you can focus on like how to move forward to get what you want instead of feeling like there's something wrong withyou.

Lovethat. So let's jump into one of thesetendencies, theobligers.

I hear about the Scroop alot.

I hear about a lot of frommoms.

I have the PTAmeeting. I have my kid soccerpractice.

I have carpools planned out in my calendar to the wazoo andforever.

I have told myself one day aweek, I want to take a walk around my neighborhood without mykid.

Or I want to meet afriend.

Like there's something for me and why can't I doit?

And I feel like this might be ablider.

Yes.Yes. Yourframework.

Yes.Yeah, can you walk through this a little bit or how I've kind of some of the things you've figured out could help this person harness their their strengths to get what theywant?

Yes. So what you described is like exactly what obligers willexpress.

They're often say I can't dropboundaries.

I really bad at selfcare.

I come through for otherpeople, but why can't I like take time for myself or whatever it mightbe?

So the key to remember is that you need to create outer accountability even for an innerexpectation.

So you can't think about self care or priorities or putting yourselffirst.

You have to think aboutwell, how can I create outeraccountability?

So let's say you want to go for a walk in thepark.

How would you create outer accountability forthat?

You might go with a friend who will be disappointed if you don't showup.

You might take your dog who's going to be really disappointed because it's a highlight of your dog'sday.

You might think of your duty or futureself.

If you come to the end of the year and you haven't been doingthis, you're going to be really disappointed with yourself and maybe you're not going to have those benefits that you would have had in terms of moodregulation,energy, being out in thesunshine, all thesethings.

You might think of your duty to be a role model for someoneelse.

I want to show mychildren.

I want to show the people around me what it looks like to take time foryourself.

And if I don't doit, then they're going tothink, talkaway, but actions are louder thanwords.

And I don't see you doingthat.

I need tomodel. You talk a lot about modelingbehavior.

I need to model the behavior that I'm talkingabout.

So in theseways, you create outer accountability even for an innerexpectation.

And sometimes I'd like to just feel like it's somehow weak that they shouldn't need to rely on outeraccountability.

I'mlike, you're the biggestgroup.

There's a ton of people who need outeraccountability.

There's nothing wrong withthat.

Just figure out what works foryou.

Because for some people taking a class is a really great way to get outeraccountability.

For somepeople, that doesn'twork.

So you really have to tinker it toyourself, but realizing that the outer accountability is what is needed even for an innerexpectation.

You knowwhat? There's two things that come tomind.

Number one is there's nomorality.

There's no moralityhere.

There's nobetter. There's nomorality.

Something I say to parents a lot when they're stuck with theirkids, and it just made me think of this is the solution is always in theproblem.

Right? Like my kid is alwayssaying,poop, poop at thetable.

And I'mlike,stop.Well, what if I just toldthem, let's go to the bathroom andsay,poop,poop,poop, feelfree.

Say it all youwant. I'll say ittoo.

And then we'll get that oversystem.

The solution is in theproblem.

And what you're saying is if someone'ssaying, my problem is I can't engage in selfcare.

Like I'm so good at doing things for other people and bad formyself.

Like I love the life oflike, wait asecond, I just heard what I'm goodat.

Soyes, maybe that's mysolution.

The impact on mybody, whether I take a walk because I've just said I deserve it or I take a walk because I told my friend I wanted to and I made them textme.

Yes. Get itdone. That'sgreat.

Is thewalk? My body doesn't like feel thatdifferent.

So it's just a means to anend.

And the idea thatwe, you're sayinglike, obligers have naturalability, atendency, ability to get certain thingsdone.

Let's use that to yourbenefit.

Absolutely.And, youknow, so my type is aholder.

That's the one that readily meets outer and innerexpectations.

And there's pros to that and cons tothat.

And we often give each other bad advice because we're coming from our owntendency.

So it used to be that obligers would say to me thingslike,well, now I exercise because I know I need to stay healthy for mykids.

And I would belike,well, don't do it for yourkids.

Do it for you because this is a support foryou.

You don't need to like bring somebody else intoit.

But I realize that's actually a really good pattern of thinking forobligers.

That's really helping them to do something for themselves because they're invoking that outeraccountability.

So who am I to tell somebody that what they're doing iswrong?

It works forthem. And soagain, it'slike, people are often beinglike,well, you shouldn't do that or you should dothat.

It'slike,well, maybe you should or maybe shouldn't because you might be coming from a very differentplace.

Youknow, I think that's pointing out like a really big blind spot for me too becauseokay,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah, 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blahblah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah, blah Thankyou!

Today's episode is in partnership with Airbnb and HappyEgg.

Thank you forlistening.

To share a story or ask me aquestion, go to GoodInside.com slash podcast or you could write me at podcast atGoodInside.com.

Parenting is the hardest and most important job in theworld.

And you deserve resources and support so you feel empowered and confident for this very important job youhold.

I'm so excited to share GoodInsidemembership.

It's the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valuedparents.

It's game-changing and built for a busy parent who wants to make the most out of the fewwords.

GoodInside withDr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at MagnificentNoise.

Our production staff includes SabrinaFarhi, Julia Natt and KristenMuller.

I would also like to thank EricaBelski, MaryPanico, BrookeZant, and the rest of the GoodInsideteam.

And one last thing before I let yougo.

Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on theoutside.