Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself Hyung.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yushun in the studio.
Coming up, a broken heart won't kill you but mending it requires delicate stitch work, a pint of ice cream, a rom -com and a credit card may work for some but now more of the heartbroken are throwing traditional breakup cures out of the window for more nuanced, therapeutic and may I say expensive approaches.
We discuss the business of heartbreak and small joys, big smiles tune into Roundtable's happy place where happiness is always on air.
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Ah the aged old tale.
We heal our broken hearts in private.
Maybe we spend days swimming in our tears eating a pint of ice cream, blasting those breakup songs and nursing our wounds.
All in preparation for the day we're ready to face the world again.
It's a delicate dance isn't it?
We brace ourselves for the possibility of heartbreak or maybe, just maybe, we find that special someone we're meant to be with.
Sure, it doesn't cost much.
Maybe a few bucks for the ice cream and tissues.
What's at stake are precious hearts but today breakups are big business apparently in North America.
My friends, from checking into a heartbreak hotel, well this is happening in the UK actually, to diving deep into body psychotherapy, companies have jumped all in to capitalize on these gut -wrenching goodbyes.
So what's behind these modern -day heartbreak cures?
Let's explore therapies, trends, and sometimes quirky services that are helping us pick up the pieces of our shattered hearts and maybe even put a little spark back in our step.
Well speaking of someone who's been through all of this but not the business side of it yet.
So guys, tell me what is the business of heartbreak these days?
And I have to say this is mainly a US and UK story.
Yeah, so to alleviate people's sorrow or more specifically the emotions from a breakup, there are even industries now that focus on this area offering a range of services to help people navigate relationship endings and these services include breakup coaches, healing retreats, and even specialized medical
treatments. And the industry is part of a larger trend of increasing attention to personal well -being and self -care in modern society.
Breakup coach. Doesn't that sound strange when you hear those two words next to each other?
Breakup and coach. Breakup coaching, it's a profession and it's emerged as a result of the increased demand, right?
When there's a demand for something, well then there is a supply as well.
And the reason there's been an increase in demand is because people are looking for guidance during times of, we can call it emotional upheaval if you will.
There are coaches that offer services ranging from emotional support to helping clients get back together with their exes.
You can hire a coach to help you get back together with your ex.
Really? Yep. And some coaches, they offer practical advice on moving on, others use more controversial methods such as manifesting or strategic texting to help win back their exes.
A coach to help win back your exes.
Why keep him or her?
Right. That sounds a little bit like schematic, but there are also services like as you mentioned, on the Heartbreak Hotel.
That's an Elvis Presley song, by the way.
Since my baby left me in 1956, I think.
Anyway, sorry, I digress.
Yes, this is a hotel on the Norfolk coast of the UK and it is a retreat center that offers healing services.
And its goal is to help people heal from heartbreak through transformative therapy in a peaceful residential setting.
And it offers a new form of healing, which is a long weekend transformative therapy in an environment free from alcohol and technological distractions.
And I think they know.
Those are two of the main therapists for a breakup.
It feels like there are many products emerging now in the healing economy, I would say, or like breakup economy.
These aren't necessarily just for dealing with the sadness of breakups.
Some people simply want to find peace in urban life.
So they go to retreat areas, Nassau in forests or suburban area or just spend a weekend in a temple.
We had a discussion.
Yeah. Not everyone is in support of the breakup industry, by the way.
There are there are critics.
There are big critics.
One of them, for example, his name is John Markowitz.
He's a psychiatrist and he's really skeptical about framing breakups as traumatic experiences that require specialized treatments.
And some of these specialized treatments are really serious.
For example, EMDR, that's eye movement desensitization and reprocessing.
This is a form of psychotherapy that might be used for PTSD, for example.
I watched a video on this because I didn't know what it was, EMDR, and you sit with a therapist and they use different methods like eye movement.
So what they did in the video was they ask you to think of a bad memory and how you associate that feeling with that and then go from there and the therapist will move his hand in a particular direction and you have to follow your eyes with the hand movement.
Then there's other practices like tapping when you're talking about your emotional pain in the past.
So what John Markowitz is saying is that breakup isn't so traumatic that we need to associate a breakup with that level of therapy.
And he thinks that certain businesses are taking advantage of people who are feeling vulnerable.
Right. I think there's a certain degree of truth to that.
But also everybody's experience could be different.
Maybe someone did go through some kind of abusive relationship or whatever it is, then maybe it qualifies.
I'm not sure, but I think for most of the scenarios that one could envision, it's more like, well, I really have the other way, traditional way of dealing with it, which is swimming in my sorrows and getting out of it myself.
And I don't need to spend an extra dime on it, although it might take some time.
And also some people use shopping as therapy.
Retail therapy. It's not great, but I'm not here to judge.
And some people, you know, you sort of just have to find ways to cope with that period of time.
And as long as you stick around long enough, you'll finally eventually get out of it.
Well, the divorce industry has been around for a long time in the United States.
That has its own market value in the tens of billions of dollars.
This is big business.
Breakups, though, outside of the institution of marriage, have gained a lot more attention in recent years.
And I think this reflects, perhaps we could even say societal changes on how people are viewing relationships.
Some are taking it more seriously.
Some are taking it less seriously.
But people seem to be acknowledging now, because can't we agree on that?
When we hear divorce, we do think that's traumatic.
You go through a trauma.
Maybe you need some therapy or some form of therapeutic help.
But when people hear, oh, I broke up with my boyfriend or with my girlfriend, people react like, ah, you'll get over it.
Interesting. So they tend to dismiss it, right?
But what we're seeing is they're tending not to be so dismissive anymore.
Yeah, because as more couples choose to just live together rather than getting married, you know, breakups are seen as just as significant and traumatic, as you said, as divorces.
And especially when you have truly invested your emotions into this relationship.
And perhaps your life plan is to gradually walk into marriage with this person.
So this could be very serious.
And as I said, the critics on these kind of things, because I was thinking, even just by thinking of it, it can be traumatic enough.
And you need to describe all of these things.
It could be very harmful.
And also, if you are just depend on these kind of external support too much, maybe over -reliance on these coaches or therapies may prevent individuals or you from building your own emotional resilience and then and your coping skills.
Because I think, you know, eventually the only one who can truly help you move on is yourself and by genuinely getting over it.
Yeah. And also, I looked at the amount that's being charged here.
A stay at the US $30 ,000 for a weekend.
And some of these breakup coaches can charge hundreds or thousands of dollars to work with them, depending on how many sessions you need.
So the conclusion that the reporter at Marketplace, who reported on this from America, said that this is something that is targeting college educated upper middle class segment of the American population or whoever wants to enjoy this kind of service and pay for it, obviously.
So we can be as worried or not about this, but I think the amount of money that is charging is targeting maybe certainly not everyone.
Well, I mean, maybe they're charging so much because it's niche now.
And those who don't know better that are paying for it.
Well, again, that's being a little dismissive, isn't it?
I'm not saying that I agree with price points, but if by that logic, then why do people get personal trainers at the gym if it's something that they can do themselves?
Well, the point is they can't or they don't feel like they can do it themselves.
So they get a guide, which is what a personal trainer is.
This is kind of the same, it's just an emotional personal trainer, if you will.
So to suggest that all breakups are equal and to suggest that it should be easy to get over by yourself, I feel like that's a little bit dismissive where it can be a traumatic experience for people.
Well, I certainly think that it could or could not be, and even for divorces, some people might even argue you call that traumatic according to that person's experience, maybe it's going overboard.
So I respect everybody's own situation.
But when it comes to these kind of services, yes, sometimes it's not necessary.
Sometimes it's like maybe it takes a year for you to get over it.
It might take maybe a month for you to learn how to properly wait, lift these weights without breaking your back and having a professional to help you and save you time and give you guidance.
That's great. But with these breakup coaches or services that are available.
Strategic texting. Yeah.
Do they really know what they're teaching and guiding their clients?
Yeah. I guess you'd want to make sure that who you're hiring is qualified to do that.
On the topic of services available, do you want to hear a couple of more fun examples?
Oh, yes, please. Moving out services.
Now, we know that we can go onto an app somewhere or make a phone call and hire a company to come in and move our plates and forks and clothing and furniture for us, but they also have moving out services for someone who has just gone through a breakup.
Now, how might that be different?
Well, doing that, they help to divide possessions and in the moving out scenario, they know that it's a very sensitive and discreet situation.
So there's a company called Onward and they help clients transition smoothly without adding to the emotional burden that is the breakup.
So I never thought I would hear of a moving company saying, we'll move your stuff when you just went through a breakup.
That might be an example of trying to take advantage of someone.
You know, when hearing this, I was thinking, well, they just perfectly cut your photos into half and not letting you realize this is an old photo or something.
But I should not make fun of it.
This could be something like some people really need.
But I was thinking, yeah, when you're just seeing some people moving out your stuff out of the house, it can be harmful enough and remind you some of the kind of things.
So, of course, when we're saying like, building up a regulation kind of thing or establish clear credentials is something that this kind of industry really need or the industry would benefit from more standardized training and certification for these coaches or just companies.
Yeah, what you just said, you shouldn't.
It sort of rings back.
At the time, it was considered one of those quote unquote new occupations of professional destroyers of wedding photos when a couple divorces in China.
I've never heard of it.
Oh, do tell. What was that about?
So, you hire someone and they'll destroy your wedding photos?
Yes, because in China, apparently this is a big part of the wedding industry that is having super nice photos taken.
Sometimes couples would go to foreign countries or a different exotic place to have special photos taken and when they decide to part ways, what do you do with these mementos?
And it could be painful.
It could be traumatic.
And there are, well, the special service in China that can make a buck while destroying those pictures.
In that case, what qualifies someone as a professional then?
Oh, that person said that I actually watched an interview of this guy who owns this business of, let's call him wedding photo shredder, and he would actually spray paint the faces of the bride and groom smiling from the picture and shred it into a million little pieces.
Goodness, mate. Yeah.
So, what do you guys see as the future of a heartbreak this business?
Do you think it has the chance of growing into an industry?
I would actually recommend people to still find ways from yourself, I would say, because this is something that you need to solve by yourself.
And we need to realize that sometimes you cannot easily change another person, especially when you're trying to find a strategic texting kind of thing.
And when there are fundamental differences between YouTube and leaving might be the right choice if we're talking about just breakups, because the time and energy you spend on finding someone new, maybe less than what you would invest in trying to change or salvage the current relationship.
And of course, this is assuming that YouTube are completely in different worlds, although most people may not experience that walking out of a toxic relationship should be something to celebrate.
Yes, I absolutely agree with that.
In terms of the future though, perhaps AI, breakup coaches, apps powered by AI that could offer personalized breakup advice and support in real time.
If you call your breakup coach and they're in a meeting, well, then they can't take your call.
But if you had an app with an AI coach, well, they respond immediately, right?
So that might be something that we see in the future or perhaps virtual reality healing where you have immersive VR experiences that are designed to help get you through some emotional difficulty.
The reason why I sort of let out a major gasp of air just now was I thought, Steve, you're suggesting that AI will help you break up in the future, as in, instead of getting the bad news through a text message, which is horrible.
You get an AI bot. I hate that.
The breakup bot. I don't like that at all.
Coming up next, welcome to the happiest corner on the airwaves, round tables, happy place.
Delivery, delivery, delivery.
What is it? Happiness from round table.
You shouldn't. What is your happy place?
Is it CES? It's not, but I think it has something to do a little bit with our second topic.
I recently came across a book called Bright Star Green Light written by Jonathan Bate, and its Chinese translation is titled, I could almost spend my life in solitude.
The book is subtitled, The Beautiful Works and Damned Lives of John Keats and F.
Scott Fizzroad. They are also two famous literary figures.
One review of this book resonated with me deeply.
It stated that this is not just a dual biography, but also a philosophical reflection on lives.
The book reveals the profound connection and interplay between solitude and beauty in the lives of these two literary figures from different times and places.
It explores how they coexisted with solitude and how they created and reflected in its embrace and how their works help us better understand the essence of life and the world and beauty.
Recently, I've also found myself pondering this idea when spending time alone, while we humans as social beings often find joy or security in companionship.
But some periods of solitude can also help us or just be a source of energy and renewal.
Sometimes solitude can be a moment of peace and an opportunity for self -reflection.
So, that's kind of my reflection on solitude.
Well, in the future, we might have a topic coming up about loneliness.
Thank you so much for sharing that happy place of yours, Yushun.
And what about you, Steve?
My Happy Place is a film that I've been waiting to watch for a couple of years called The Whale.
Have you heard of it before?
It's a Darren Aronofsky movie.
He was the director.
He was the guy who directed Black Swan, if you know that movie.
Anyway, this stars Brendan Fraser as an obese English teacher who is confined to his home because of his weight.
He's 600 pounds, and he has all of the emotional difficulty that you might assume would come with a film like this.
And I thought it was a fantastic work of art.
This film was heavily criticized, too, for people who thought that it was fat phobic, saying that it preyed upon the stereotypes or the tropes that fat people are clinically depressed and are always binge eating and things like that.
And those are elements of this film as well.
But strictly in a vacuum, looking at it as a work of art, I thought it was fantastically directed.
Brendan Fraser won an Oscar for his act.
He's in its themes.
He has a lot of emotional problems, the main character does, but the acting is stellar.
The filmmaking is fantastic.
And I would really recommend that people watch this film, if only for the artistic merit that it presents.
I think it's brilliant.
Yeah, it was. I would say mind -blowing.
I've never seen anything like this before.
Not it's very unique in its storytelling, but not everybody loves this movie.
So you might not love it when you watch it.
And I do understand the people who criticized it, but just from an artistic point of view, I thought it was brilliant, honestly.
And thank you so much for sharing.
Yeah. So you've probably heard the phrase, there's no free lunch.
And here's something you might not believe that the free lunch exists.
Yep, you heard it right.
No strings attached.
All you have to do is drop the right code at the door.
For example, you could walk into a particular noodle shop in Beijing.
Let me find the name of this place.
It is Beijing Xiaoxiang Wang, this Xiaoxiang Wang Hunan cuisine in Beijing, for example, and just drop the code.
I'll take the number one beef noodle.
Or in Chengdu, you could pop by a grilled fish spot and ask for the riverside combo.
And just like that, these humble little eateries all around the country will hand you a free meal.
And it's not some marketing gimmick.
Feng Huang Wang or iphong .com reported that across the country, these small unassuming restaurants are offering free meals to those who are really struggling.
People without an income suddenly lost a job.
We know that these things do happen in real life, facing real tough times.
And the most thoughtful part is that these owners set up these secret codes for people who don't need to ask, but just receive help.
And one restaurant owner in Beijing even came up with a more empathetic way to help.
Customers can donate just one yon to receive a heart sticker, which they can then place on a wall.
And when someone in need enters this restaurant, they simply pick a sticker from the wall and exchange it for a bowl of noodles, no code whatsoever required.
And these little restaurant owners, they're not exactly rolling in cash themselves.
Many of them are facing debts or financial strain, and they still want to help out in whatever way they can.
One restaurant owner said to this iPhone reporter that it's not like we're not afraid of being scammed.
Scammed, meaning people who don't need the help will take advantage of it.
Of something like that.
And he said, but we can't stop being a decent human being just because of the risk of encountering one bad apple.
And then as I was looking further into the common area of this report, and also there's a wonderful video made by Chen Xiaonan, go feel free to visit her video link and check it out.
And one comment particularly stood out is a shop owner who shared that after a few years of providing these free meals, his business had to close.
And despite the challenges, he remembered the gratitude from customers and found comfort in knowing that they made a difference.
And he ended by saying, I'm struggling too, but I hope to rise again soon.
Best wishes to you and me too.
So this is not just one of those heartwarming stories.
I think there's definitely the reality to it.
And if you are somehow nearby one of these restaurants, I think it would be great if you could go support their these small businesses.
And before we go, I'd like to share a few words regarding those who are experiencing tremendous loss from the earthquake in Shiket, Xi Zhang also known as Tibet and the devastating fires in Los Angeles.
My heart is with you, whether you're standing in the aftermath of the rebel of shattered earth or raging flames.
The pain you face is unimaginable.
But in both of these calamities, there are so many threads of unity, courage in the face of loss, resilience in the wake of destruction and hope in the collective strength of those coming together to rebuild.
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
Thank you, Steve and Yushuan for joining the discussion.
I'm He Yang. We'll see you next time.
