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Taylor Swift has just dropped her album The Life of a Showgirl, which she's billed as a more joyful and banger-filled follow-up to last year's somber chart-topper, The Tortured Poets Department.
The Life of a Showgirl touches on Taylor Swift's relationship with fiancé Travis Kelsey, while also reflecting on fame normalcy, the internet and a simmering beef with a fellow pop star.
I'm Stephen Thompson.
Today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, we are talking about Taylor Swift's new album, The Life of a Showgirl.
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Making time for the news is important, but when you need a break, we've got you covered on All Songs Considered NPR's music podcast.
Think of it like a music discovery show, a well-deserved escape with friends and yeah, some serious music insight.
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Hear new episodes of All Songs Considered every Tuesday, wherever you get podcasts.
Joining me today is NPR music critic and correspondent, Anne Powers.
Hey, Anne.
Hey, Stephen.
Welcome to Taylor Swift Day, an annual holiday at this point.
It is an annual holiday.
It is a big, big day in which the main character in our lives is Taylor herself.
So we should note that Anne and I are recording this on Thursday, October 2nd.
We've both had the life of a showgirl for about 36 hours.
You would not believe the agreements that we signed in order to hear this thing ahead of time.
This conversation is going to revolve around the album's 12 songs.
We haven't seen anything she's released theatrically.
We haven't seen any of the videos.
And hopefully she doesn't drop a ton of additional songs like she did with the Tortured Poets department.
Anne, I've come to think of you as something of a Taylor Swift whisperer.
You've written about her extensively.
I know you're a fan.
I greatly trust your judgment when it comes to Taylor Swift.
What do you think of the life of a showgirl?
Well, I was excited when she announced this album because I am also a massive fan of Max Martin and Shellback, her two collaborators on this record, the Swedish producers with whom she worked on her incredible run of banger-saturated albums about 10 years ago now.
You're talking about Red, 1989.
Exactly.
So I was really happy that she was reuniting with them.
She made this record, by the way, while she was touring in With her gigantic, record-setting Iris tour.
She would apparently pop over to Sweden every now and then and hang out with the guys.
As one does.
As one does.
To me, that process is so interesting because while she is staging this massive, extravaganza.
Then she is retreating into the studio with a very small core of collaborators.
I mean, besides Max and Schellbeck, there's barely anyone else on this record.
There's a string section here and there.
I am so interested in her musical evolution as well as her mythical evolution.
I'm into the music on this record.
Yeah, I'm kind of in awe of her executive functioning.
Yeah, it's intimidating.
Her ability to juggle many large tasks really does put me to complete shame.
I think this is a really interesting record because I think in some ways it's definitely going to be discussed as kind of her banger's record right.
Like she's kind of built it as such.
This is a pivot away from the kind of somber, autumnal stuff.
You know that she explored with Aaron Dessner and Jack Antonoff.
You know, on the folklore evermore and especially the tortured poets department.
And it is a pivot away from that sound.
I don't think it's a pivot 100% of the way from that sound.
I agree, and especially not thematically.
It's not a pivot.
I mean it's a pivot from the heartbreak of Torture Poets.
But as you well know, there are some themes Taylor can never let alone.
Yeah, and I think in some ways it feels like and the title gives it away this is the life of Taylor Swift.
This is like the state of Taylor Swift.
And as such, it contains multitudes, right?
It is capturing where she is in her life.
She is newly engaged.
She's very much in love.
That thematically is a big pivot away from especially the tortured poets department.
But she's still finding room on this record for other themes.
You have nostalgic heartbreak, which is a big Taylor Swift topic that she has come back to before.
There's a song called Ruin the Friendship.
That is about regretting not kissing someone very classic taylor melodrama, finding out later that her object of affection has passed away.
It was not convenient no, but i whispered at the grave.
Should have kissed you.
Honestly, that's one of my favorite Taylor Swift vibes.
I like nostalgic Taylor Swift much, much more than here is what it's like to be Taylor Swift.
I think when she is at her best, she uses specificity to signal something universal.
And sometimes, when she is singing about massive fame, when she's singing about haters, when she's singing about what it's like to be Taylor Swift.
Her stuff can leave me a little cold.
And this record intermittently does that.
But it contains a lot.
There are Travis Kelsey songs.
There is a fairly sexual Travis Kelsey song.
Ah, yeah.
It's a hilariously sexual.
Nod to Sabrina Carpenter, who's also on this record.
That's a flat out... bawdy, risque, you know, blues queen, nasty metaphor kind of song.
I think it's very, very funny.
It's called Wood in case anybody wanted to know.
You can kind of suss out the intricately nested metaphor.
It's not about interior decoration.
It's not.
And it's kind of funny.
I mean, like she is definitely.
You know, Sabrina Carpenter pops up on the title track, which closes the record.
But Sabrina Carpenter does feel like a little bit of an influence at a couple points on this record, including both Sabrina Carpenter's new record and Taylor Swift's new record, contain fairly cringy references to thighs.
Forgive me, it sounds cocky.
Untie me and open my eyes.
Redwood tree, it ain't hard to see.
His love was the key that mind Taylor's I actually maybe it's because they are these you know parasocial figures in our lives it's just makes me laugh because they play out their public relationship I mean Travis and Taylor do as a kind of a comedy routine in some ways so I can kind of imagine them jokingly coming up with this.
Travis does not have a writing credit on that song, thank goodness.
But it's almost like an extension of what I think they may be like.
And I've never met Travis Kelsey, and I don't know anything about their relationship really.
But the good humor that runs throughout this album and especially the songs about him.
I value that.
I don't know, I like Funny Taylor.
I think Sometimes she's a little clunky, though, in her humor, which I know, Stephen, bothers you.
But you also kind of like the clunkiness, right?
You're like a fan of her lines that kind of woof, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know if I would say I'm necessarily a fan.
I will cringe as hard as anybody when she unleashes a clunker.
I think her willingness to uncork a groaner is part of what makes her songwriting distinct.
And one of the things that makes her the world's biggest pop star.
Like as much as she is imitated as widely as you will hear echoes of Taylor Swift's speak singing that have been echoed by an Olivia Rodrigo, that have been echoed by a Sabrina Carpenter she still writes songs that don't sound like they could come from anybody but Taylor Swift.
Absolutely.
Even when she is not writing about specifically being Taylor Swift and being massively famous and being in the relationships that she's been in.
I'm not saying that she's going to take a break, although there is a line on one of these songs about wanting to like move to the suburbs and play basketball with her future children.
So who knows?
You're talking about wish list.
Yes, I am.
And that is a dream she expresses.
And a realizable dream in some ways.
Not entirely, because it's not like Travis Kelsey is going to retire from his own celebrity either.
He's about to retire from football, but he's not going to retire from podcasting.
Exactly.
But one thing that I love about this record, actually, is that it feels to me like a culmination.
As a huge Max Martin and Shellback fan.
The three of them weave in both references to kind of like the entire history of post, maybe post-70s pop.
And the entire history of Taylor.
You just mentioned the song Wishlist.
If you listen to just the cadence and think of the sentence structure of the verses on that song, it is a total throwback to Style, which is her supposedly Harry Styles' referencing song from 1989, a record she made with Max and Shellback.
Eldest Daughter.
That is a beautiful, timeless ballad that I know will now be the first dance song at weddings here in Nashville for like the next 20 years.
And that's your track five.
So, you know, she cares very deeply about what she's saying in that song.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
But that song, you know, reaches all the way back to one of her most famous lines you know a careless man's careful daughter, right.
From back in her country days.
God, I hate this because I don't want to like Stan Taylor or parasocial out with her.
But I think the expressions of love toward Travis Kelsey are really touching, you know, and the kind of open heartedness on the song like eldest daughter, is really, really moving.
This record very artfully kind of moves through Taylor's own career musically to present this culmination and land her where she is now.
And I love that because it's just really such artful pop music making.
I mean, you can say she writes clunkers, that's cool.
But the sound on this record is airtight, I think.
Yeah.
And that's where I want to call out the song Opalite, which comes fairly early in the record and has this big bright, theatrical quality.
It's a true like just fully fleshed out earworm.
Oh, I'm so glad we're past the tortured poets department.
Yeah, and it's got that Max Martin thing, right?
So here's the thing.
He is always thinking about how what he's doing connects to the present moment, but also to previous moments in pop.
So that song has these kind of almost like 50s style, like there's that chorus and please anyone listening, If you know where that?
Whoa sorry, I'm not tuneful where that comes from.
It's haunting me.
It's from another song.
But it's also so evocative of the musical grease or something like that.
And then add that into the very contemporary kind of production, the standards on this song, and you have a song that just seems to be everywhere all at once.
Everything everywhere all at once.
That's what Taylor's all about.
I think for me, that's one of the real standouts on the record.
Do you have other favorite songs?
And I do like Father Figure.
That has a very recognizable interpolation.
There's a writing credit for George Michael.
So it plays off... So George Michael's creepiest song.
Creepiest and most beautiful.
I can't help it.
It's a gorgeous song.
But she actually does something fascinating with this song, which is she leans into the creepy Stephen right.
And she uses this age-inappropriate relationship trope to call out a former mentor, who clearly is a man in the music industry, and in the end basically say hey, I am more powerful than you.
I am now your father figure, which is such a neat little trick.
She does it in a very mean-spirited way, but also in such a beautiful way musically.
So it's just a fascinating twist.
And again, it's a reach back for Taylor because to me this is –
My tears ricochet, which is a more vulnerable expression of being taken advantage of.
But here she's like, no, I'm on top.
I'm the father figure.
And I find that enjoyable in a petty way.
Oh, absolutely.
And we'll get to the slight mean streak that runs through this record.
Slight.
Oh, my goodness.
Before we get entirely away from the Travis Kelsey of it all, there's a song late on this record that I do love, called Honey.
And that is a perfect example of when Taylor Swift is at the top of her songwriting game, because that is a song that is very specific to her relationship with Travis Kelsey.
That is illuminating about her relationship with.
It's revealing a detail we didn't have before, but it's doing it in a way that feels universal and is speaking to a larger truth of like.
When these words are spoken in bad faith, they mean something very different.
And when they're spoken in love.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I just have to say about Honey.
It also highlights an aspect of this album that I really value, which is her singing.
I mean remember way back 100 million years ago when Taylor Swift first became a star and people like me who I was writing for the LA Times at the time were like can this girl even sing?
Like, people did not think Taylor Swift could sing.
Oh, yeah.
Because she was kind of famously unsteady live performer and she is not anymore.
No, not at all.
And I think, the fact that they made this record while she was on tour, while she was obviously taking very good care of her voice and really deploying her voice every night, you know, in this very powerful way.
She just has so much fun singing these songs.
I mean even the way she sings that word honey, you know she kind of drags it out and it reminds me of, like mod 60s, you know, Austin Powers theme song kind of way, you know.
Or similarly, the very beginning of this record on The Fate of Ophelia, The first little bit of that song where she's talking about someone Travis calling her on the telephone.
She does it in this like mock seductive, woozy, swoony way.
I heard you calling on the megaphone.
You want to see me all alone.
As legend has it, you.
The control she shows as a singer.
In those moments it's very theatrical, which I think is a really important thing about this record.
And I love the way she sings on this.
I think she's ready for her Broadway show now.
Anne, you and I have talked offline that there are a couple of songs particularly late on this record that don't work for us as much.
I think the first half is pretty solid.
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
More than solid.
Yeah.
But you get into the back half and there are a couple of choices made that That I'm not necessarily a huge fan of.
I think you're more troubled than I am.
I'm sort of troubled for her more than troubled by her, but we can get into that.
We can get into that.
Well, I'm going to talk about the song Actually Romantic.
Okay.
Which is pretty clearly and obviously we're talking about this on Thursday.
There has not necessarily been a gigantic amount of online discourse.
No.
About the contents of this record.
By the time this episode drops, I suspect there will have been.
Charlie XCX had a song on Brat called Sympathy is a Knife.
Charlie XCX's partner is in the 1975.
Husband now.
I think they're married.
Yes.
Taylor Swift famously dating Mattie Healy.
She wrote many ponderous songs about it.
I love those songs, but anyway.
Yeah.
Sympathy is a Knife is a little bit about seeing this incredibly powerful and successful person backstage having an insecure response to it.
To me it is much more of a song about Charlie XCX's own insecurities than it is any kind of diss track against Taylor Swift.
Well, Taylor Swift has a song on this new album called Actually Romantic, which I suspect is going to resonate with a lot of people.
It's certainly going to be talked about a lot.
Huge overreaction.
It's a good song that bugs me.
Yeah, I understand that.
And again, this is where I have to kind of walk away from the parasocialness of it all.
Always a good idea.
I know, definitely.
Taylor revisiting honing.
Perhaps you know getting repetitive on a theme that she's explored before.
She's got this whole thing about, like, I am not bothered by you.
And this is when she clearly is.
It's kind of a drill tweet in song form.
It is.
Like, don't put in the newspaper that I was mad.
But I just, there's a few funny lines in the song.
I think the line comparing the antagonists in the song to a toy chihuahua barking at me from a tiny purse is actually it is funny.
If you can remove yourself from the gossip, the song, it's overplayed.
It is cartoonish, but she gets some zingers in there.
And maybe this is where I should just state my higher concept for this album.
Because what I've realized after many years way too much of my life thinking about Taylor Swift at this point is that, at least since she started working with Max Martin and really went for the pop and started building herself as a pop star, every Taylor Swift album works on at least two levels.
It works on the level of autobiography, as we're discussing, and then it also works on the level of the concept.
So the way this is working on Showgirl, I think, is that she's created this character the tough as nails grease paint wearing.
My feet hurt from dancing, but the show must go on.
I really wonder if in this song, for example, or in the song Canceled, where she stands up for her girl squad in ways that some people might find disturbing.
If she's leaning into that character, she's at least finding courage in that character.
I mean she is reaching back to Betty Davis in All About Eve or Elizabeth Berkley in the movie Showgirls.
These are those women who live for the fame, who live for the lights.
And can we separate Taylor from that character?
That's my question for you.
Well Anne, I think it is safe to say this is the final conversation anyone will have about this album.
I'm glad we settled it all.
I'm so glad we figured it all out.
Resolved.
We're done.
Thank you, Taylor.
You know, if you want some advice on buying a mega mansion in one of the suburbs here in Nashville, call me.
I can find you that basketball hoop.
I can't.
All right.
Well, we want to know what you think about the life of a showgirl.
Chances are everyone will have an opinion.
Find us at Facebook.com slash PCHH.
That brings us to the end of our show.
Ann Powers, thank you so much for being here.
It's always a pleasure.
I will see you next year on Taylor Day for our annual day of service.
Oh, man.
When she drops her 13th album, you know how she is about the number 13.
That thing is going to have some thought put into it.
Just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show and public radio.
And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor-free.
So please go find out more at plus.npr.org or visit the link in our show notes.
This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Janae Morris and Mike Katziff and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy.
Hello Come In provides our theme music.
Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.
I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next time.
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